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Greet
10-31-2011, 06:35 PM
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2011/10/shaq-says-kobes-rape-case-destroyed-the-lakers-his-relationship-with-bryant/


So I’m on edge because I don’t have I don’t have a new deal, and Kobe is on edge because he might be going to jail, so we’re taking it out on each other. Just before the start of the ’03-’04 season the coach staff called us in and said, “No more public sparring or you’ll get fined.” … Phil was tired of it. Karl Malone and Gary Payton were sick of it. … So what happens? Immediately after that Kobe runs right out to Jim Gray and does this interview where he lets me have it. He said I was fat and out of shape. He said I was milking my toe injury for more time off, and the injury wasn’t even that serious. (Yeah, right. It only ended my damn career.) He said I was “lobbying for a contract extension when we have two Hall of Famers playing pretty much for free.” I’m sitting there watching this interview and I’m gonna explode. Hours earlier we had just promised our coach we’d stop. It was a truce broken. I let the guys know, “I’m going to kill him.”

Kobe stands up and goes face-to-face with me and says, “You always said you’re my big brother, you’d do anything for me, and then this Colorado thing happens and you never even called me.” I did call him. … So here we are now, and we find out he really was hurt that we didn’t stand behind him. That was something new. I didn’t think he gave a rat’s *** about us either way. “Well, I thought you’d publicly support me, at least,” Kobe said. “You’re supposed to be my friend.”

Brian Shaw chimed in with “Kobe, why would you think that? Shaq had all these parties and you never showed up for any of them. We invited you to dinner on the road and you didn’t come. Shaq invited you to his wedding and you weren’t there. Then you got married and didn’t invite any of us. And now you are in the middle of this problem, this sensitive situation, and now you want all of us to step up for you. We don’t even know you.” …
Everyone was starting to calm down when I told Kobe, “If you ever say anything like what you said to Jim Gray ever again, I will kill you.”

Kobe shrugged and said, “Whatever.”
[...]
From that day on, I was done dealing with Kobe. I was done dealing with Jim Gray, too. What goes around, comes around. When he got fired, he actually had the nerve to call me and ask me to help him out. What, did you lose Kobe’s number?

RekeHavoc
10-31-2011, 06:42 PM
great article,thx for posting this

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-31-2011, 06:43 PM
:laugh2:

Anilyzer
10-31-2011, 06:45 PM
Shaq has a weird brain... but this story sounds true.

The flipside is that Shaq surely was being a butt to Kobe, freezing him out, waiting for him to be gone, happy about the rape charge, angling for the monster extension... Kobe was aloof but didn't think teammate could be THAT cold...

Anyways, I remember at the time laughing about that press conference... one of those "too true" ones, where it's so real and so true it should never be said. Shaq was hella fat. HELLO. The emperor has no clothes. SO damn funny when Kobesaid that stuff.

daleja424
10-31-2011, 06:45 PM
I use to believe Shaq... but now it seems that Shaw doesn't even know the difference between reality and imaginary any more... so I take every shaq story with a grain of salt.

J4KOP99
10-31-2011, 06:50 PM
Shaq doesn't need to do this. He has that new TNT gig to keep him in the limelight...

daleja424
10-31-2011, 06:53 PM
Shaq doesn't need to do this. He has that new TNT gig to keep him in the limelight...

Isn't shaq having legal trouble too? Can't imagine he sticks with TNT if he is having legal trouble.

PhillyFaninLA
10-31-2011, 06:58 PM
I may hate Kobe with a passion, I may think he belongs castrated and in jail, but didn't he lead the Lakers the 3 titles without Shaq. I wish someone on the Sixers could kill us like that.

LakersMaster24
10-31-2011, 07:04 PM
This Shaq and Kobe thing is getting really annoying, they really need to let go and start minding their own business.

J4KOP99
10-31-2011, 07:06 PM
Isn't shaq having legal trouble too? Can't imagine he sticks with TNT if he is having legal trouble.

That whole sex-tape issue or whatever? I think that fizzled out

daleja424
10-31-2011, 07:11 PM
nah. I heard there was some kinda extortion or something. Im not sure about the details. I just caught the tail end of a discussion about it.

J4KOP99
10-31-2011, 07:13 PM
nah. I heard there was some kinda extortion or something. Im not sure about the details. I just caught the tail end of a discussion about it.

Oh, well that's definitely not good news if true.

Testaverde16
10-31-2011, 07:18 PM
i think everyone has moved on except for shaq

beliges
10-31-2011, 07:22 PM
i think everyone has moved on except for shaq

When everyone put you on a pedestal and then youre "little brother" goes on to win more without you then you ever did without him, its hard to let go. Kobe forever surpassed Shaq in winning, rubbed it in Shaq's face and Shaq is now a bitter, retired HOFer.

LAKERMANIA
10-31-2011, 07:26 PM
i think everyone has moved on except for shaq

x2, since that Jim Gray interview Kobe hasn't said anything negative about Shaq in public (or at least not as much as shaq has)

shep33
10-31-2011, 07:31 PM
In reality they're both to blame. But Shaq is obviously telling one side of the story, which is his own. Shaq has a long history of burning bridges with players that he obviously doesn't talk about. Going back to 2004, that Lakers team was a gong show with the Shaq-kobe feud, Kobe's trial, and Payton not buying Phil's system. Shaq was overwight, and really he just didn't seem interested. It's after the 3-peat that he just seemed to stop caring. He let his weight get out of hand, and that period was the beginning of Shaq taking "breaks". Kobe never should've mentioned anything about Shaq's life off the court, that was just stupid... but on the court, I commend Kobe for probably being the only player in the league to tell Shaq to get his butt in shape.

As a Laker fan, I can never forgive Shaq for one thing, and that was his weight issues, which were a huge problem acknowledged by a lot of people, including Kobe. It pisses me off that in 2004, he was absolutely enormous, then the very next year he loses 25-30lbs when he joins the Heat... had Shaq taken care of his body the Lakers would've had an amazing chance of winning 5 straight rings. That just shows one of two things... Shaq was either just lazy, or he was more motivated to watch the Lakers collapse rather than win. There is no excuse for Shaq in those final 2 years in LA, he could've been so much more productive, and it kills me to bash him because he use to be one of my favorite players. Kobe gets burned because he was the only one on the team who had the guts to go up to this massive man and say it though.

Again though, both were wrong and caused the breakup... but lets be honest, the Lakers were absolutely right in keeping Kobe, and letting Shaq go. Shaq is a legend though in his own right, likely the most dominant player in NBA history. However, I don't regret letting him go, over a younger, more motivated Kobe Bryant.

bholly
10-31-2011, 07:32 PM
Prediction: One day Kobe's going to have a book and it isn't going to mention Shaq's name. That's going to be his dig at Shaq.

LAKERMANIA
10-31-2011, 07:35 PM
In reality they're both to blame. But Shaq is obviously telling one side of the story, which is his own. Shaq has a long history of burning bridges with players that he obviously doesn't talk about. Going back to 2004, that Lakers team was a gong show with the Shaq-kobe feud, Kobe's trial, and Payton not buying Phil's system. Shaq was overwight, and really he just didn't seem interested. It's after the 3-peat that he just seemed to stop caring. He let his weight get out of hand, and that period was the beginning of Shaq taking "breaks". Kobe never should've mentioned anything about Shaq's life off the court, that was just stupid... but on the court, I commend Kobe for probably being the only player in the league to tell Shaq to get his butt in shape.

As a Laker fan, I can never forgive Shaq for one thing, and that was his weight issues, which were a huge problem acknowledged by a lot of people, including Kobe. It pisses me off that in 2004, he was absolutely enormous, then the very next year he loses 25-30lbs when he joins the Heat... had Shaq taken care of his body the Lakers would've had an amazing chance of winning 5 straight rings. That just shows one of two things... Shaq was either just lazy, or he was more motivated to watch the Lakers collapse rather than win. There is no excuse for Shaq in those final 2 years in LA, he could've been so much more productive, and it kills me to bash him because he use to be one of my favorite players. Kobe gets burned because he was the only one on the team who had the guts to go up to this massive man and say it though.

Again though, both were wrong and caused the breakup... but lets be honest, the Lakers were absolutely right in keeping Kobe, and letting Shaq go. Shaq is a legend though in his own right, likely the most dominant player in NBA history. However, I don't regret letting him go, over a younger, more motivated Kobe Bryant.
I agree with everything in this post great job. I also hated Shaq for losing 30 pounds when he went to the Heat instead of losing weight with the Lakers, not only that, but also taking a paycut for Miami, 2 things I couldn't stand about him.

Teeboy1487
10-31-2011, 07:48 PM
Move on Shaq even though I agree to an extent. Kobe was a terrible teammate but he improved so much in that aspect.

Cal827
10-31-2011, 08:19 PM
Shaq got away with so much crap over his career because he was the "big dumb guy". It's quite bad... if he was in the NBA now, I think we would have a player hated more than Lebron James and Derrick Rose's love child.

SteBO
10-31-2011, 08:29 PM
When everyone put you on a pedestal and then youre "little brother" goes on to win more without you then you ever did without him, its hard to let go. Kobe forever surpassed Shaq in winning, rubbed it in Shaq's face and Shaq is now a bitter, retired HOFer.
This is exactly how I see this. I used to dislike Kobe for the way he treated Shaq then, but then I witnessed his exit in Miami, and I my lne of thinking of this Kobe/Shaq thing has changed drastically. I think Shaq is just a big baby now, and now since Kobe has won two titles compared to Shaq's one, it irks him to no end.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 08:36 PM
In reality they're both to blame. But Shaq is obviously telling one side of the story, which is his own. Shaq has a long history of burning bridges with players that he obviously doesn't talk about. Going back to 2004, that Lakers team was a gong show with the Shaq-kobe feud, Kobe's trial, and Payton not buying Phil's system. Shaq was overwight, and really he just didn't seem interested. It's after the 3-peat that he just seemed to stop caring. He let his weight get out of hand, and that period was the beginning of Shaq taking "breaks". Kobe never should've mentioned anything about Shaq's life off the court, that was just stupid... but on the court, I commend Kobe for probably being the only player in the league to tell Shaq to get his butt in shape.

As a Laker fan, I can never forgive Shaq for one thing, and that was his weight issues, which were a huge problem acknowledged by a lot of people, including Kobe. It pisses me off that in 2004, he was absolutely enormous, then the very next year he loses 25-30lbs when he joins the Heat... had Shaq taken care of his body the Lakers would've had an amazing chance of winning 5 straight rings. That just shows one of two things... Shaq was either just lazy, or he was more motivated to watch the Lakers collapse rather than win. There is no excuse for Shaq in those final 2 years in LA, he could've been so much more productive, and it kills me to bash him because he use to be one of my favorite players. Kobe gets burned because he was the only one on the team who had the guts to go up to this massive man and say it though.

Again though, both were wrong and caused the breakup... but lets be honest, the Lakers were absolutely right in keeping Kobe, and letting Shaq go. Shaq is a legend though in his own right, likely the most dominant player in NBA history. However, I don't regret letting him go, over a younger, more motivated Kobe Bryant.

I tend to agree with this man. Obviously they are both at fault, but ultimately it felt as if Shaq knew a younger franchise player was nipping his heals, and decided to be a crybaby about it. And to make matters worse, he was then moved to a team with the same damn thing, and decided to embrace it because it suited his motives.

Shaq was the most dominant physical specimen to ever play in the NBA. But his ego and his need to try and show up former teammates/teams, just limited him from being maybe the best player of all time.

Well that and the horrific free throw shooting....

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 08:38 PM
When everyone put you on a pedestal and then youre "little brother" goes on to win more without you then you ever did without him, its hard to let go. Kobe forever surpassed Shaq in winning, rubbed it in Shaq's face and Shaq is now a bitter, retired HOFer.

truth man. I am sure it burns Shaq *** every day that Kobe won 2 more without him, and Shaq only got 1. He most likely can't stand the fact that the Lakers choose Kobe, and they were right in doing so.

naps
10-31-2011, 09:00 PM
I tend to agree with this man. Obviously they are both at fault, but ultimately it felt as if Shaq knew a younger franchise player was nipping his heals, and decided to be a crybaby about it. And to make matters worse, he was then moved to a team with the same damn thing, and decided to embrace it because it suited his motives.

Shaq was the most dominant physical specimen to ever play in the NBA. But his ego and his need to try and show up former teammates/teams, just limited him from being maybe the best player of all time.

Well that and the horrific free throw shooting....


You nailed it there. Had he been a better free throw shooter and less of a douche, he would certainly be right up there with Jordan.

Bruno
10-31-2011, 09:09 PM
I thought this was new, commentator Shaq referring to last post-season when I first read the headline.

justinnum1
10-31-2011, 09:12 PM
the second coming of barkley

ldawg
10-31-2011, 09:50 PM
Grow up Shaq ain't you like 42 years old. Enjoy your retirement dude. Get over it who cares. You had issues with most of your teammates except in Boston where you hardly played. Hoops can cheer you up, move on everone else did. You will be remembered as the BIG sensitive just ask Penny,Kobe, Howard,Wade and Lebron they all rub you the wrong way at some point? You Both were at fault for the way it ended.

Fnom11
10-31-2011, 10:54 PM
When everyone put you on a pedestal and then youre "little brother" goes on to win more without you then you ever did without him, its hard to let go. Kobe forever surpassed Shaq in winning, rubbed it in Shaq's face and Shaq is now a bitter, retired HOFer.

Kobe has 5 rings to Shaq's 4. It's really not that big of a difference, not to mention the Heat may have gotten Shaq another one if Wade didn't have a season ending injury.

They'll both go down as some of the best players to ever play this game so I really doubt either can rub ones careers in the face of the others.

Arch Stanton
10-31-2011, 11:35 PM
The more I hear about Shaq the more he comes across as a huge egocentric a-ho(e.

Sinestro
11-01-2011, 12:14 AM
Hmm it was both their fault damn shame too would have loved to see Shaq retire a Laker

KingOf215
11-01-2011, 12:18 AM
I've always felt these 2 players are incredibly talented, and also incredibly classless. However, I think they've both matured, and Kobe is much better than he was in his youth. It took him long enough, but it seems like it's gonna take Shaq longer.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-01-2011, 12:23 AM
I just want Kobe to come out with a book so we can hear how 3 stars (PJ, Shaq, Kobe) couldn't get **** together to make history.

Chronz
11-01-2011, 12:48 AM
My ticket out of Miami was punched in mid-February 2008. There was a lot of tension between Pat and the players. So we're about to start practice and Jason Williams comes in about ten seconds late. Pat being Pat, he starts swearing at him and screaming, "Get the hell out of here!"...

I tell Pat we're a team and we need to stick together, not throw guys out of the gym. Pat is screaming at me and says if I don't like it, then I should get the hell out of practice, too.

That's when I said, "Why don't you make me?"

I start taking a couple of steps towards Pat. Udonis Haslem steps in and I shove him out of the way. Then Zo tries to grab me. I threw him aside like he was a rag doll. Now it's me and Riley face-to-face, jaw to jaw. I'm poking him in the chest and he keeps slapping my finger away and it's getting nasty. Noisy, too. He's yelling "**** you!" and I'm yelling back, "No, **** you!"

Zo is trying to calm us both down and he has this kind of singsong panic in his voice. He keeps saying, "Big fella, no big fella, big fella!" I finally turn around and tell him, "Don't worry, I'm not going to hit the man. Do you think I'm crazy?"

Favorite bit

iggypop123
11-01-2011, 01:02 AM
incredible how shaq refuses to take responsability for his lax attitude to the game. he got 4 titles by trying half the time. kobe was correct to call him out, it wasnt personal. if he is always in shape bill rusell would have started to worry.

Bravo95
11-01-2011, 01:11 AM
In reality they're both to blame. But Shaq is obviously telling one side of the story, which is his own. Shaq has a long history of burning bridges with players that he obviously doesn't talk about. Going back to 2004, that Lakers team was a gong show with the Shaq-kobe feud, Kobe's trial, and Payton not buying Phil's system. Shaq was overwight, and really he just didn't seem interested. It's after the 3-peat that he just seemed to stop caring. He let his weight get out of hand, and that period was the beginning of Shaq taking "breaks". Kobe never should've mentioned anything about Shaq's life off the court, that was just stupid... but on the court, I commend Kobe for probably being the only player in the league to tell Shaq to get his butt in shape.

As a Laker fan, I can never forgive Shaq for one thing, and that was his weight issues, which were a huge problem acknowledged by a lot of people, including Kobe. It pisses me off that in 2004, he was absolutely enormous, then the very next year he loses 25-30lbs when he joins the Heat... had Shaq taken care of his body the Lakers would've had an amazing chance of winning 5 straight rings. That just shows one of two things... Shaq was either just lazy, or he was more motivated to watch the Lakers collapse rather than win. There is no excuse for Shaq in those final 2 years in LA, he could've been so much more productive, and it kills me to bash him because he use to be one of my favorite players. Kobe gets burned because he was the only one on the team who had the guts to go up to this massive man and say it though.

Again though, both were wrong and caused the breakup... but lets be honest, the Lakers were absolutely right in keeping Kobe, and letting Shaq go. Shaq is a legend though in his own right, likely the most dominant player in NBA history. However, I don't regret letting him go, over a younger, more motivated Kobe Bryant.
I agree. This nonsense should be over.

Chronz
11-01-2011, 01:20 AM
So what years did Shaq play too fat?

GREATNESS ONE
11-01-2011, 01:29 AM
:cry::rolleyes:

ztilzer31
11-01-2011, 01:35 AM
Uh if I remember correctly Kobe has only lead the Lakers to 2 championships after the departure of shaq... Plus Kobe has how many Finals MVP's? Because if I remember correctly Shaq has 3 and Kobe has 1. Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. People talk about him like he's a top 5 player ever and he's not even a top 5 Laker IMO.

GREATNESS ONE
11-01-2011, 01:40 AM
Uh if I remember correctly Kobe has only lead the Lakers to 2 championships after the departure of shaq... Plus Kobe has how many Finals MVP's? Because if I remember correctly Shaq has 3 and Kobe has 1. Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA. People talk about him like he's a top 5 player ever and he's not even a top 5 Laker IMO.

:punish:

ztilzer31
11-01-2011, 01:47 AM
I'm sorry it goes as follow IMO

1. Magic Johnson
2. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Jerry West
6. Kobe

beliges
11-01-2011, 02:10 AM
I'm sorry it goes as follow IMO

1. Magic Johnson
2. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Jerry West
6. Kobe

As a Laker? Nobody played longer, dominated more and won more as a Laker than Kobe did out of all the guys on that list. Magic has a legit argument here and Kareem did win just as much, but Kobe did it just as good and did it for a longer time.

soundjunkies2
11-01-2011, 02:13 AM
I'm sorry it goes as follow IMO

1. Magic Johnson
2. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Jerry West
6. Kobe

Wilt and Shaq over Kareem? That list is horrible.

Knowledge
11-01-2011, 02:47 AM
This is a tell all book people hence he is going to tell all. If he didn't mention the controversial stuff that was unknown to the public beforehand, it wouldnt sell. Shaq is a very well educated businessman and he knows that him writing a book without mention this stuff is no good.

I don't know why people are acting like this is the first time a athlete has done something like this. None of us were in the locker room, nor is anyone here mentioned in the book (as far as I know) so their is no reason to be so defensive. Plus all we are getting is snippets of the book, the whole thing may put everything Shaq has said in the proper context. Like what his responsibility in some of his teams failures on and off the court were. Is he not suppose to mention any of this?

ztilzer31
11-01-2011, 03:00 AM
Wilt and Shaq over Kareem? That list is horrible.

Wilt redefined basketball particularly at the center position (and boned over 10,000 woman). So yes well over kareem. Shaq is arguable. Kareem had a longer career (playing tell 41 I think). During their primes though no question IMO was Shaq better.

Kobe's last two championships had alot to do with him, but the first three were all Shaq. Kobe was still very good, but Shaq won every finals MVP and was CLEARLY the dominant force on the court.

Just the fact that people ever compared Kobe to Jordan is perverse and a complete disrespect to Jordan considering he basically demolishes Kobe in every stat... I know that's a change of subject, but I still hear people talk about it.

JayHunter
11-01-2011, 03:11 AM
LMAO:catfight::catfight::catfight::catfight:

i.got.the.nutz
11-01-2011, 04:54 AM
I still love the big fella no matter what he says. He brought he Lakers a three-peat and those don't happen very often. You win three in a row in L.A., you can say whatever you want.

Its obvious this book is going to cause a lot of publicity and that's exactly what he wants. I can't wait to read the whole thing.

ink
11-01-2011, 09:50 AM
I've always felt these 2 players are incredibly talented, and also incredibly classless. However, I think they've both matured, and Kobe is much better than he was in his youth. It took him long enough, but it seems like it's gonna take Shaq longer.

Good post.

ink
11-01-2011, 09:53 AM
I agree. This nonsense should HAVE beEN over IN 2005.

Fixed.

todu82
11-01-2011, 10:29 AM
I like Shaq but really don't know why he's bringing up a feud with Kobe again, sounds like sour grapes to me.

3mikee_
11-01-2011, 10:51 AM
lol... That feud was something else... I'm still disappointed that the two just couldn't get along... even though I feel most of it was Kobe's fault for being so anti-social.

Hawkeye15
11-01-2011, 10:57 AM
I'm sorry it goes as follow IMO

1. Magic Johnson
2. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Jerry West
6. Kobe

as a Laker? No freakin way dude.

Magic
Kobe (he may end up passing Magic)
West
Kareem
Shaq (not there long enough, though his peak was arguably as good as any Laker ever)

smith&wesson
11-01-2011, 01:02 PM
nah. I heard there was some kinda extortion or something. Im not sure about the details. I just caught the tail end of a discussion about it.

Ya i remember that. some how shaq got off.

shaq is retired and still talking about kobe.. he needs to let it go lol. seems so bitter still

mlisica19
11-01-2011, 01:32 PM
The story seems true, hes got other sources of back up.

I mean he could have probably been a bit nicer in telling the story but it seems true.

Kobe at the time was a very immature player and a big head case.
He wanted everyone to have his back when he needed it the most, but Kobe tried to shut down Shaq out of his life. When trouble came to Kobe, he looked for help but it was not there.

Kobe learned the hard way that it was not always about him. He forced Phil jackson out, he forced Shaq out. When he finally grew up, he wanted Jackson back but Shaq and his duo was only a memory from there

beliges
11-01-2011, 02:18 PM
The story seems true, hes got other sources of back up.

I mean he could have probably been a bit nicer in telling the story but it seems true.

Kobe at the time was a very immature player and a big head case.
He wanted everyone to have his back when he needed it the most, but Kobe tried to shut down Shaq out of his life. When trouble came to Kobe, he looked for help but it was not there.

Kobe learned the hard way that it was not always about him. He forced Phil jackson out, he forced Shaq out. When he finally grew up, he wanted Jackson back but Shaq and his duo was only a memory from there

Kobe was very immature at that very young age. He was still a kid. The feud between him and Shaq was caused by ego and the desire for attention. However, I dont share the sentiments that Kobe forced Shaq out. Shaq set up his own departure from the Lakers when he couldnt keep himself in professional shape and as such, the success of the team suffered. After the Lakers failed to bring home a championship for two years in a row, changes needed to be made. Buss decided Kobe provided the best chance for success at that point and tried to get the most out of Shaq as was possible before his trade value further decreased. In hindsight it seems Buss and the Lakers made the correct choice in keeping Kobe. Two championships and three finals appearances. Kobe kept that Laker team in contention after Shaq and eventually delivered with back to back titles. I dont think the Lakers regret that move whatsoever.

ztilzer31
11-01-2011, 02:54 PM
as a Laker? No freakin way dude.

Magic
Kobe (he may end up passing Magic)
West
Kareem
Shaq (not there long enough, though his peak was arguably as good as any Laker ever)

I really don't understand how Wilt isn't on that list... Any player that redefines a position needs his respect IMO. That's like not putting Jimi Hendrix on a list of top 5 guitarists. I mean I'm rating players more on there primes, and in those first three championships none of the media or fans were talking about how good Kobe is. It was all can any team in this league stop Shaq. For those 4 season (including his championship with the Heat) he was by far the most dominant player on the court anyone has been besides Jordan. I don't think anyone will ever pass Magic for the one reason that Magic played against better teams then Kobe did.

Cal827
11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
He Mad.

Eagles4Lyfe
11-01-2011, 02:59 PM
I love how people love to hate on kobe. Leave the guy alone he goes about his business and does his thing. How many times has the media set him up to say something negative about lebron and he never caves and instead compliments him???

knightstemplar
11-01-2011, 03:22 PM
I'm sorry it goes as follow IMO

1. Magic Johnson
2. Wilt Chamberlin
3. Shaq
4. Kareem
5. Jerry West
6. Kobe

drugs are a horrible thing

ztilzer31
11-01-2011, 08:03 PM
I love how people love to hate on kobe. Leave the guy alone he goes about his business and does his thing. How many times has the media set him up to say something negative about lebron and he never caves and instead compliments him???

Lol. Yeah let Kobe rape whoever he wants!

Kobe to me is the type of player that gets more credit then deserved. Pulling up and shooting 3's off the dribble are cool looking and everything, but the shot is stupid. Kobe takes dumb shots before the play breaks down. Also that jump pass crap he does is stupid. That would never work against great teams. This isn't NBA Jam.

Maybe I'm still bitter about the Sonics fan. Not trying to offend anyone I just don't see what Kobe has done that makes him so special. One thing's for sure. HE ONLY LED THE LAKERS TO 2 CHAMPIONSHIPS AND SHAQ WAS THE MAIN STAR FOR THE FIRST 3. MVP's mean something.

Sactown
11-01-2011, 08:25 PM
I love how people love to hate on kobe. Leave the guy alone he goes about his business and does his thing. How many times has the media set him up to say something negative about lebron and he never caves and instead compliments him???

That's not true. Kobe attacks people differently, he just isn't as upfront or obvious about it anymore

kblo247
11-01-2011, 08:59 PM
My problems with what all he wrote


Didn't have a deal? Bull ****. He was just entering the first year of a 3 year, 80+M extension when he screamed at Buss to pay him in front of the media on a televised game. That was just so stupid and childish.

Other things missing include:
- Malone calling Shaq out for not being in shape like he promised in 04 which prompted a Benedict Arnold remark
- Fisher actually being invited and attending the wedding, the only one on the team actually
- Throwing Horry under the bus after the 03 playoffs and Fisher for not slowing Parker
- The fact Nash and Amare wanted him gone in PHX
- Getting Mike Brown fired after having him lose the locker room
- The war with Penny, Horace, and Hill
- How does my *** taste ~ I got one more than Shaq
- The years of shots he took at Kobe by calling him out through the media through the 3 peat
- admittedly trying to get Kobe traded more than once
- Forcing Eddie, Nick, and Elden out the door and blocking a Kidd deal

Rookie duties story is interesting but Kobe has already admitted that he told Ceballos on the bus he would fight him if he disrespected him in front of people like they did the other rookies because it wasn't just carry these bags or balls like he did in high school when he was new. He wasn't going to end up being Luke Walton and made to sing in a **** thong for Shaq's amusement. Yeah you read that right, Shaq made Walton dress up in a thong and sing to him in front of the team.

----

Now let me be clear, Kobe wasn't blame free. He was an anti social teenager on a team of veterans and the closest person he could relate to and open up to was Fisher, who like him didn't party or club hop on company time. He fought the triangle initially and Phil because he was a petulant child who by Phil's own admission, he singled out and brow beat and made the example of even at times Shaq was wrong and he was right because Shaq couldn't handle the lashing. He blew up and he didn't always want to be number 2 and honestly had a valid point there last 3 years together where he carried them throughout the playoffs and season, only for Shaq to be overweight to start every year, take games off, and play his way into shape. I honestly think we would all be frustrated if the guy who gets paid the most and gets the most recognition didn't show up to work everyday in shape to do his job properly while blasting you and the same guys who have fought battles with you (Fisher, Fox, Forry) in public when things go bad.

He matured later on and got it. He accepted Phil back to win even after that book. By both mens account, he took it on the chin and apologized when Phil returned and their sat and worked everything out. He did have that tirade about Buss not bringing him the talent he promised, but that was only after the deadline that he was promised the talent had passed and it prompted change to bring LA back to greatness. The fan in me can't ***** at that because Magic did the same thing to get the system and coach he wanted in the 80s to set up Showtime. He also threw up the one more than Shaq quip, which wasn't needed but I admittedly chuckled because it was like a fatality in Mortal Kombat.

To me Kobe's biggest problem was that he let **** fester when he was younger. He let the Shaq stuff pile up. Overweight, insults, the healing on company time, throwing Fisher/Fox/Horry under the bus, playing him and Van Exel admittedly against one another, pushing Eddie out, etc. He just let it pile up and stayed so quiet that instead of squashing things at different points you got the Jim Gray interview and breakup in 03-04. At the same time though, he grew up after it like you are supposed to when you leave out of your lower 20's, won more than Shaq has before and after him, and isn't the bad guy anymore.

If Shaq would only just grow up, he would have been the best to ever play the game. If he worked harder, controlled his weight, partied less, didn't take paid breaks throughout the year, and didn't burn bridges in every city he was in aside from Boston he could have been remembered so much better. I hope he lets it go because the past is like an ***, everyone has one. The thing is if he can't let it go and move on, he will be stuck living in it and missing out on so much in the present.

desertrat218
11-01-2011, 09:06 PM
Shaq and Kobe are both egomaniacs with big mouths. If anyone could have got through to either of them they might have won 6 straight titles instead of just 3.

ne3xchamps
11-01-2011, 09:24 PM
This Shaq and Kobe thing is getting really annoying, they really need to let go and start minding their own business.

this. completely agree.

CousinsEvansDUO
11-02-2011, 11:00 AM
I don't like kobe because he's the killer. He killed shaqs dominance in lakers. he killed mike bibbys jaw during the 2002 western conference playoffs. he killed the kings championship. he will be killing laker fans when he fails during the 2011-2012 season. Kobe just plain and simple sucks. I wish shaq could come out of retirement and join the kings and destroy kobe.

BigCityofDreams
11-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Lol. Yeah let Kobe rape whoever he wants!

Kobe to me is the type of player that gets more credit then deserved. Pulling up and shooting 3's off the dribble are cool looking and everything, but the shot is stupid. Kobe takes dumb shots before the play breaks down. Also that jump pass crap he does is stupid. That would never work against great teams. This isn't NBA Jam.

Maybe I'm still bitter about the Sonics fan. Not trying to offend anyone I just don't see what Kobe has done that makes him so special. One thing's for sure. HE ONLY LED THE LAKERS TO 2 CHAMPIONSHIPS AND SHAQ WAS THE MAIN STAR FOR THE FIRST 3. MVP's mean something.

His resume speaks for itself. Not saying he's the best ever but his career is one of the best in NBA history.

MrPeytonManning
11-02-2011, 12:47 PM
As a Laker fan, I sort of agree with Shaq in that the Shaq-Kobe duo could have had a chance at another title or two in the middle of the last decade... however if the Lakers had kept both Shaq and Kobe, they would not be a very good team right now with an ancient fossil of Shaq, a ballhog Kobe and nobody else. So in that sense a rebuild around Kobe was necessary.

RaiderLakersA's
11-02-2011, 12:52 PM
Prediction: One day Kobe's going to have a book and it isn't going to mention Shaq's name. That's going to be his dig at Shaq.

I agree, although it won't be because it's a dig at Shaq. Kobe's career as it stands can be defined without mentioning the Big Fella in a negative light. Shaq, on the other hand, has to cash in on the drama and negativity, because unlilke Kobe he did NOT live up to expectations of being the Most Dominant Player Ever.

That's mainly what the beef between Kobe and Shaq boiled down to anyway. Expectations. When you're born with incredible abilities and physicality, people who have to fight, scratch, scrape and claw to be as successful tend to frown on you when they see you slacking and not living up to your potential.

No one in the Lakers organization got on Shaq's *** for underachieving. No one. I understand why Kobe felt compelled to take it to the press. Shaq was a media whore and public opinion, evidently, was the only thing that could make Shaq do what he should have been motivated to do all along.

Ironically, Shaq is still trying to win over the court of public opinion. It's like he's trying to answer the unbidden question, "Why don't you have more rings than Kareem or Bill?" It's Kobe's fault??? Really, Shaq?

ink
11-02-2011, 01:01 PM
I agree, although it won't be because it's a dig at Shaq. Kobe's career as it stands can be defined without mentioning the Big Fella in a negative light. Shaq, on the other hand, has to cash in on the drama and negativity, because unlilke Kobe he did NOT live up to expectations of being the Most Dominant Player Ever.

That's mainly what the beef between Kobe and Shaq boiled down to anyway. Expectations. When you're born with incredible abilities and physicality, people who have to fight, scratch, scrape and claw to be as successful tend to frown on you when they see you slacking and not living up to your potential.

No one in the Lakers organization got on Shaq's *** for underachieving. No one. I understand why Kobe felt compelled to take it to the press. Shaq was a media whore and public opinion, evidently, was the only thing that could make Shaq do what he should have been motivated to do all along.

Ironically, Shaq is still trying to win over the court of public opinion. It's like he's trying to answer the unbidden question, "Why don't you have more rings than Kareem or Bill?" It's Kobe's fault??? Really, Shaq?

One of the best posts I've read about the soap opera that was Kobe and Shaq. You actually elevate it out of soap opera territory. Shaq has enjoyed a lot of adulation over his career based on his personality. I could have easily lived without any of it. He isn't the most educated person on the planet and his screwed up thinking process (completely ego based) has negatively affected the last 10 years of the league, since so many adoring fans adopted his opinions (or Kobe's), when neither actually mattered at all. You can see a line of self-absorbed NBA athletes right from Shaq through to Lebron and beyond to Melo, etc. Bad combination of ego, poor education, and too much attention and money. What a cluster ****.

shep33
11-02-2011, 01:05 PM
Skip Bayless and Stephen A. Smith talked about this today.... here's the vid. I agree with Stephen A, but I really like what Skip says at the end about Kobe.

http://www.youtube.com/user/FirstTakeRDV#p/u/6/NnUU9EBE0FA

tr3ymill3r
11-02-2011, 01:08 PM
Shaq needs that paycheck right now without the NBA, because TNT isn't going to pay someone to do nothing. I wish Shaq would have said how he was going to kill him, for instance just sit on him and Smush Parker.

IceMan360
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/user/FirstTakeRDV#p/u/6/NnUU9EBE0FA

:clap:
this was great and i completely agree

Dankster
11-02-2011, 01:40 PM
I have absolutely no problem with what Shaq said. Granted it's only one side to the story but I have a strong belief that what he said was true. And what was so bad about what he said??

Several former Laker players (Horry, Fox, Fisher,) said Kobe was quite reclusive; isolated himself from his whole team and truly kept things in a "professional manner." That's his perrogative, but when he gets accused of rape he can't expect these people who he has a professional relationship with to back him up. He decided to put the wall up between him and his team, it's not his teammates obligation to break that wall down and stand behind Kobe since it's quite obvious he would'nt do the same for them if the roles were reversed.

Maybe Shaq is jealous Kobe has more titles than him? Who knows, but personally I see it as Kobe needed a great amount of help and another superstar to be able to get over the hump--he had over 3 years to show he was the MAN and that he could lead a team single handedly to the title...He failed miserably at that...Only until the arrival of Gasol did his fortunes change.

ddhulett
11-02-2011, 01:57 PM
I don't think Kobe killed them he helped them to 5 titles and could be more but......

Kobe is to me like A-Rod....fake fake fake!

beliges
11-02-2011, 02:01 PM
I have absolutely no problem with what Shaq said. Granted it's only one side to the story but I have a strong belief that what he said was true. And what was so bad about what he said??

Several former Laker players (Horry, Fox, Fisher,) said Kobe was quite reclusive; isolated himself from his whole team and truly kept things in a "professional manner." That's his perrogative, but when he gets accused of rape he can't expect these people who he has a professional relationship with to back him up. He decided to put the wall up between him and his team, it's not his teammates obligation to break that wall down and stand behind Kobe since it's quite obvious he would'nt do the same for them if the roles were reversed.

Maybe Shaq is jealous Kobe has more titles than him? Who knows, but personally I see it as Kobe needed a great amount of help and another superstar to be able to get over the hump--he had over 3 years to show he was the MAN and that he could lead a team single handedly to the title...He failed miserably at that...Only until the arrival of Gasol did his fortunes change.

Shaq was always on great teams during his prime. In Orlando he had one of the best players in the league on his team along with a stacked supporting cast and he could never get it done. Shaq had to wait until he teamed up with Kobe to win 3 titles. Whats funny is that Kobe proved that he could win more without Shaq than Shaq could ever win without Kobe. This is not up for debate any longer as Shaq is now retired and Kobe will forever have more titles than him. And let me remind you that Gasol was no superstar, elite player before teaming up with Kobe. He was a good big man who was yet to win a single playoff game in his career. It was only after teaming up with Kobe did he become great. So, ya Kobe needed help from another superstar but he got it done and did it more than Shaq ever did with another superstar.

SteBO
11-02-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't think Kobe killed them he helped them to 5 titles and could be more but......

Kobe is to me like A-Rod....fake fake fake!
Explain how that is....I'd love to know.

Dankster
11-02-2011, 02:18 PM
Shaq was always on great teams during his prime. In Orlando he had one of the best players in the league on his team along with a stacked supporting cast and he could never get it done. Shaq had to wait until he teamed up with Kobe to win 3 titles. Whats funny is that Kobe proved that he could win more without Shaq than Shaq could ever win without Kobe. This is not up for debate any longer as Shaq is now retired and Kobe will forever have more titles than him. And let me remind you that Gasol was no superstar, elite player before teaming up with Kobe. He was a good big man who was yet to win a single playoff game in his career. It was only after teaming up with Kobe did he become great. So, ya Kobe needed help from another superstar but he got it done and did it more than Shaq ever did with another superstar.

Hmmm, some pretty interesting points. First off, that Orlando team of the early to mid 90's. That team was not THAT good. They had a couple good wing players--Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson who when hot from the arc were almost unstoppable. Still they were relatively one dimensional players. Penny Hardaway was a tremendous college talent (and NBA talent,) but let's not forget he had what only 2 years as the PG on the team before they made their first finals appearance?? That team was wayyy too young and inexperienced when they made their finals appearance, and it was evident when they took on a team filled with veterans (aka the Rockets,)

Based on what you're saying, you're trying to tell me that Shaquille O'neal wouldnt have won a title without Kobe by his side. Am I correct in thinking that was your penultimate point in your post? Because if that's what you honestly believe than you didn't see Shaq play in the 90's. He humiliated every supestar HOFer center he was matched up against. It's so hard for me to visualize Shaq not being able to win one with the Lakers without Kobe's presence, the guy was just so damn good and so dominant. It's one thing to be a dominant wing player, but it's something totally different to be the most dominant big man probably ever.

Obviously they did tremendous together during their tumultuous stint, but for you to state that O'neal wouldn't have won without him (especially considering how weak the Eastern conference was for years,) well that's just plain silly sir...

3RDASYSTEM
11-02-2011, 02:22 PM
SHAQ aint tripping on KOBE getting 1 more ring then him after they left,they had to get twin towers to do it again,just look at LAKERS record post SHAQ and pre GASOL and look at how HEAT were in 2 ECF in that same span of time, of course u take the younger player over older, but if this so called 'franchise' guy was about to take over then why did he lay an egg in 04 FINALS when he could have had his moment?

he should have just fed SHAQ and then took over the next 2yrs like WADE did for SHAQ then they could have ran off like 6 titles in 8-9yrs since they went to 4 Finals app. in 5yr span and gotta 3peat out of that run, its great to look back on history and figure out that KOBE needed SHAQ more being its less dominant bigs and u could have put any killer from WADE/AI/TMAC/PIERCE/ALLEN to swap KOBE production and then some

SHAQ led 3 diff franchise to FINALS app...that speaks enough for me even though he was aged by the time he got his last title, thats what made me realize how good KOBE was 'individually' when he got checked by PRINCE and DWADE destroyed PRINCE&CO. in 2 straight ECF after but he had rib fracture or so in 05 to prevent final app., and if that would have happened that would have been 6finals app in 7yrs for DIESEL(instead 5)

beliges
11-02-2011, 02:23 PM
Hmmm, some pretty interesting points. First off, that Orlando team of the early to mid 90's. That team was not THAT good. They had a couple good wing players--Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson who when hot from the arc were almost unstoppable. Still they were relatively one dimensional players. Penny Hardaway was a tremendous college talent (and NBA talent,) but let's not forget he had what only 2 years as the PG on the team before they made their first finals appearance?? That team was wayyy too young and inexperienced when they made their finals appearance, and it was evident when they took on a team filled with veterans (aka the Rockets,)

Based on what you're saying, you're trying to tell me that Shaquille O'neal wouldnt have won a title without Kobe by his side. Am I correct in thinking that was your penultimate point in your post? Because if that's what you honestly believe than you didn't see Shaq play in the 90's. He humiliated every supestar HOFer center he was matched up against. It's so hard for me to visualize Shaq not being able to win one with the Lakers without Kobe's presence, the guy was just so damn good and so dominant. It's one thing to be a dominant wing player, but it's something totally different to be the most dominant big man probably ever.

Obviously they did tremendous together during their tumultuous stint, but for you to state that O'neal wouldn't have won without him, well that's just plain silly sir...

I never said Shaq would not have won one on the Lakers without Kobe but he would have needed close to the equal talent level of Kobe. Just like I feel Kobe could have won without Shaq with a guy like KG or Duncan on the Lakers. Ya, Shaq was dominant in the 90s, but he never won. When he made it to the Finals, he got swept and embarassed by Hakeem. And please, dont tell me those Magic teams were not that good. Not only was Penny one of the best players in the league, they had guys like Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson and Horace Grant just to name a few. These guys were some of the best role players in the league during that time. Shaq could not get it done. And again, regardless of what you or I believe, in the end Kobe PROVED to everyone he could win more without Shaq than Shaq could ever win without Kobe. And when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, that one fact is more significant than any opinion you or I may have.

Ill give you two examples of how Shaq does not win without Kobe. 2000 WCF, game 7, the game that started the dynasty. Without Kobe was the best player on the floor of that game, without him, theres no title for Shaq in 2000. In 2002, WCF against the Kings, without Kobe doing his thing, there is no title for Shaq in 2002. And in 2001? Well Kobe's playoff numbers were 29-7-6. What player could have put up those numbers in the playoffs playing with Shaq during that time?

Squad13
11-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I have absolutely no problem with what Shaq said. Granted it's only one side to the story but I have a strong belief that what he said was true. And what was so bad about what he said??

Several former Laker players (Horry, Fox, Fisher,) said Kobe was quite reclusive; isolated himself from his whole team and truly kept things in a "professional manner." That's his perrogative, but when he gets accused of rape he can't expect these people who he has a professional relationship with to back him up. He decided to put the wall up between him and his team, it's not his teammates obligation to break that wall down and stand behind Kobe since it's quite obvious he would'nt do the same for them if the roles were reversed.

Maybe Shaq is jealous Kobe has more titles than him? Who knows, but personally I see it as Kobe needed a great amount of help and another superstar to be able to get over the hump--he had over 3 years to show he was the MAN and that he could lead a team single handedly to the title...He failed miserably at that...Only until the arrival of Gasol did his fortunes change.

:laugh: Are you serious? Name a team that has one without more than 1 good player.. He had Luke Walton, Smush parker and Kwame Brown in the starting line up. Get a clue

SteBO
11-02-2011, 02:27 PM
I love it when people spew this nonsense that Kobe wouldn't have been **** without Shaq, and fail to even mention what Shaq would've been if not for Kobe. The guy has the heart of a lion and was every bit as important to the three-peat as Shaq was. Why downgrade him? makes no sense......

No joke, when Shaq left the Lakers for reasons explained numerous times already(even for the benefit of my team), I hated Kobe. I hated how immature he was, how cocky he was, how selfish he was, and how snarky and rude he was. I thought he destroyed any chance the Lakers had of possibly becoming the greatest dynasty in the history of sports because there isn't a doubt in my mind that they could've won 3 more titles had things shaped differently.

Then Shaq leaves the Heat in the way he did, and my whole line of thinking changed. Shaq is just an egocentric manchild. That's all he is. He bashed our 3rd string PG for Christs sake on his way out of Miami(Chris Quinn) as well as Ricky Davis and Ron Culp(Heat trainer). At some point, enough is enough Shaq and it's time to grow up. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet and it's pretty sad. Fun guy to be around sometimes I'm sure, but I've always disliked his attitude towards others, particulary the guys he wasn't too fond of. Kobe, on the other hand, has risen above that sort of pettiness and focused on what he does best. Now, I couldn't respect Kobe more. Deep down, Kobe is a very good dude.

Dankster
11-02-2011, 02:27 PM
:laugh: Are you serious? Name a team that has one without more than 1 good player.. He had Luke Walton, Smush parker and Kwame Brown in the starting line up. Get a clue

Well first off let me state I'm a die hard knicks fan and i absolutely couldn't care for either one of these guys (Shaq used to humiliate Ewing in every head to head matchup,) but I should've clarified my point a little better as you took my words extremely literally. Had Kobe NOT been on those teams in the late 90's I'm assuming they would've used the money from his contract to sign other role players..So yes, you're right Brian Shaw, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown wouldn't have been that helpful.

BTW you might want to brush up on your history buddy. Kwame didnt even get drafted until 2001 and to the wizards no less..he had zilch to do with the 3 titles the Lakers won. Same can be said for Smush parker, so you might want to stick with the actual rosters that were assembled during their champion ship run if you want your point to hold any merit.

But let's not forget Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher. These aren't stalwarts but they're very good, serviceable and HIGHLY CLUTCH role players. Add a relatively good wing player in substitution for KObe and it's not out of realm to think they would've been contenders year in, year out....And I don't need a clue champ, I have a pretty good idea I know what I'm talking about...

kblo247
11-02-2011, 04:54 PM
Well first off let me state I'm a die hard knicks fan and i absolutely couldn't care for either one of these guys (Shaq used to humiliate Ewing in every head to head matchup,) but I should've clarified my point a little better as you took my words extremely literally. Had Kobe NOT been on those teams in the late 90's I'm assuming they would've used the money from his contract to sign other role players..So yes, you're right Brian Shaw, Smush Parker and Kwame Brown wouldn't have been that helpful.

BTW you might want to brush up on your history buddy. Kwame didnt even get drafted until 2001 and to the wizards no less..he had zilch to do with the 3 titles the Lakers won. Same can be said for Smush parker, so you might want to stick with the actual rosters that were assembled during their champion ship run if you want your point to hold any merit.

But let's not forget Rick Fox, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher. These aren't stalwarts but they're very good, serviceable and HIGHLY CLUTCH role players. Add a relatively good wing player in substitution for KObe and it's not out of realm to think they would've been contenders year in, year out....And I don't need a clue champ, I have a pretty good idea I know what I'm talking about...
You really don't have a good idea of what you are talking about.

Kobe was on a rookie contract. Shaq had an all star back court in Van Exel and Jones who he feuded with in LA during the late 90s. He played Van Exel and Kobe against one another with he said stuff., and Jerry West admits that Shaq went to management and killed a deal for Jason Kidd because he didnt want him on his team. He got Eddie and Elden traded for his guy in Rice. He got into it with the coach. He got called out in the media and spent his first years pre Phil out of shape and missing games, while being accused of focusing too much on fame and being Hollywood.

Stop confusing the Shaq in the late 90s who played for LA for 3 peat Shaq. He was lazy, criticized, didn't get along with the all stars he had, forced trades, failed horribly in the playoffs multiple times, and won jack squat until Kobe developed and carried the weight of the team that was far less talented than the ones he had with Kobe, Van Exel, Jones, Elden, Fisher, Fox, and Horry all on the same squad.

Don't reprint history or pretend like his first part of his stay was roses because it was far from it until Tex Winters came and embarrassed brim by calling him out in front of everyone much to his dismay. The middle and 3 pear were great and history making, and truly his window of dominance. The last two just left a horrid taste as he didn't show up ready to work often, got carried by Kobe and the others frequently, was out of shape, and a grand distraction.

RaiderLakersA's
11-02-2011, 05:16 PM
SHAQ aint tripping on KOBE getting 1 more ring then him after they left,they had to get twin towers to do it again,just look at LAKERS record post SHAQ and pre GASOL and look at how HEAT were in 2 ECF in that same span of time, of course u take the younger player over older, but if this so called 'franchise' guy was about to take over then why did he lay an egg in 04 FINALS when he could have had his moment?

he should have just fed SHAQ and then took over the next 2yrs like WADE did for SHAQ then they could have ran off like 6 titles in 8-9yrs since they went to 4 Finals app. in 5yr span and gotta 3peat out of that run, its great to look back on history and figure out that KOBE needed SHAQ more being its less dominant bigs and u could have put any killer from WADE/AI/TMAC/PIERCE/ALLEN to swap KOBE production and then some

SHAQ led 3 diff franchise to FINALS app...that speaks enough for me even though he was aged by the time he got his last title, thats what made me realize how good KOBE was 'individually' when he got checked by PRINCE and DWADE destroyed PRINCE&CO. in 2 straight ECF after but he had rib fracture or so in 05 to prevent final app., and if that would have happened that would have been 6finals app in 7yrs for DIESEL(instead 5)

Sorry, I disagree that Shaq was the leader of the Miami Heat team. Wade was that team's unquestioned leader the year that they won the title. I am not trying to persuade you to feel one way or the other about Shaq or Kobe, but at least have the facts straight.

Shaq played a key role in, what, 6 NBA Finals appearances and winning 4? (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Fantasticl! But equally phenomenal is Kobe, who played a key role in reaching 7 NBA Finals. So far.

The crux of this entire debate IMO, however, is that Shaqzilla was SUPPOSED to win titles. En masse! Rings on every finger and toes and maybe 2-3 pierced through his ears, eyebrows and nose. Everyone predicted Shaq would be a beast and change the game completely...and to some extent, he did.

But you can't hate on Kobe for coming into the NBA without anyone expecting him to be as great as Shaq was predicted to be. Hell, the fact that a team was willing to trade him for Vlade tells you all that you need to know about how Kobe was viewed coming into the draft. Nevertheless, here Kobe stands, one of the best to ever lace them up.

Of course Shaq wanted to kill him. Next to Duncan, Kobe was the only other superstar that could define Shaq's career and legacy. For better or worse.

steven123l
11-02-2011, 05:31 PM
Whatever everything happens for a reason

Dankster
11-02-2011, 06:07 PM
Hey KBLO, you might want to reread what you wrote because there's several discrepancies that need to be pointed out and altered:

1- You said to quit talking about the late 90's and emphasize all arguments on their championship run in the 2000's..fair enough...did u know though that their magical run started in 1999?? As in the 1999-2000 season. So glad to clarify to you that these time periods did overlap and their inaugural title came together when Kobe was in his 3rd/4th year, still nowhere near the level of player he would evolve into in his later years. So it didn't take Shaq a supremely skilled top 10 great player like Kobe in his prime to win that 1st title. Period. No on can argue the fact that Kobe was still a work in progress (ballhog, terrible shot selections, etc,)...He barely got off the bench for his first 2 years for that organization.


And also, quit making such a big stink about Shaq's weight issues.It was something monitored from the moment he inked his LA deal in 1996, it only magnified and augmented greatly a few years later when he started talking half seasons off... People can say whatever they want about O'neals work ethic (or lack thereof) but everyone knew when the playoffs started, he'd be in his finest form.

And as for him being in such great shape in Miami, well take it fro a NYK fan, Riley won't allow his players to not look like they can make cameos in the Movie "300." There's noone that puts a premium on being in game shape before the season starts than Rat Riley, hence the reason Shaq came in much better shape to South Beach.

You're obviously a Bryant fan and will probably defend him to your last breath. I would give him all the props in the world if he just won 1 ring on his own with that depleted core after Shaq left. Come to think of it, the roster wasn't depleted, I mean it's not like you had scrubs infused into your roster after the Shaq trade-- you got Caron Butler and Lamar Odom for the dude. Kobe had several years with that roster to get something done...I'd be hard pressed to imagine that a prime Michael Jordan couldn't lead those post Shaq lakers teams to a title. That's the difference between them buddy, at least imo.

beliges
11-02-2011, 06:31 PM
Hey KBLO, you might want to reread what you wrote because there's several discrepancies that need to be pointed out and altered:

1- You said to quit talking about the late 90's and emphasize all arguments on their championship run in the 2000's..fair enough...did u know though that their magical run started in 1999?? As in the 1999-2000 season. So glad to clarify to you that these time periods did overlap and their inaugural title came together when Kobe was in his 3rd/4th year, still nowhere near the level of player he would evolve into in his later years. So it didn't take Shaq a supremely skilled top 10 great player like Kobe in his prime to win that 1st title. Period. No on can argue the fact that Kobe was still a work in progress (ballhog, terrible shot selections, etc,)...He barely got off the bench for his first 2 years for that organization.


And also, quit making such a big stink about Shaq's weight issues.It was something monitored from the moment he inked his LA deal in 1996, it only magnified and augmented greatly a few years later when he started talking half seasons off... People can say whatever they want about O'neals work ethic (or lack thereof) but everyone knew when the playoffs started, he'd be in his finest form.

And as for him being in such great shape in Miami, well take it fro a NYK fan, Riley won't allow his players to not look like they can make cameos in the Movie "300." There's noone that puts a premium on being in game shape before the season starts than Rat Riley, hence the reason Shaq came in much better shape to South Beach.

You're obviously a Bryant fan and will probably defend him to your last breath. I would give him all the props in the world if he just won 1 ring on his own with that depleted core after Shaq left. Come to think of it, the roster wasn't depleted, I mean it's not like you had scrubs infused into your roster after the Shaq trade-- you got Caron Butler and Lamar Odom for the dude. Kobe had several years with that roster to get something done...I'd be hard pressed to imagine that a prime Michael Jordan couldn't lead those post Shaq lakers teams to a title. That's the difference between them buddy, at least imo.

So many layers of misinformed analysis here. First of all lets start off by mentioning 2000, WCF game 7 against Portland. The biggest game for the Lakers franchise in 10 years. Who struggled drastically in that game? Shaq. Who was the best player on the floor of that game and carried the team to a comeback victory? Kobe. Not only was Kobe a top 10 player, but in the biggest game of the season, Kobe was the best player on the court. Not Shaq.

Also, Shaq's weight issues were made public by his teammates and his coaching staff in 2003. Coincidentally it was that season where the dynasty finally lost on their way to a 4-peat. They could not get past the Spurs and Duncan outplayed Shaq in that series. Additionally, the very next season, in 04 is when Shaq had that infamous surgery right as the season was about to start and took "company time off" to get healed. It was this year that the players and coaching staff started really making his weight and his lack of work effort a bit deal. Coincidentally, it was this same season where the Lakers once again lost, this time to the Pistons. Say what you will about Kobe, you dont have to like him but nobody has ever questioned his work ethic or his ability to stay in shape like they did to Shaq.

And lastly, with a roster of Kwame, Cook, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker and Lamar, even MJ would struggle to make the playoffs. To say that MJ would have won a title with that roster proves to me how very little you comprehend the game of basketball.

Hawkeye15
11-02-2011, 07:21 PM
I really don't understand how Wilt isn't on that list... Any player that redefines a position needs his respect IMO. That's like not putting Jimi Hendrix on a list of top 5 guitarists. I mean I'm rating players more on there primes, and in those first three championships none of the media or fans were talking about how good Kobe is. It was all can any team in this league stop Shaq. For those 4 season (including his championship with the Heat) he was by far the most dominant player on the court anyone has been besides Jordan. I don't think anyone will ever pass Magic for the one reason that Magic played against better teams then Kobe did.

I think Wilt is better than any player I listed. But not as a Laker, when he was at the tail end of his career. His worst 5 years overall came with the Lakers easily. Kobe and Magic are easy calls. Kareem basically had a slightly better Laker career than Wilt. Shaq's absolute peak, and leading them to 3 rings trumps Wilt. West needs no explanation either.

b0nk
11-02-2011, 07:38 PM
well this what Buss said about Shaq back in 2005


On Wednesday, Buss said O'Neal was not willing to get into shape when he played for the Lakers. O'Neal, who played at an estimated 370 pounds during his final season in Los Angeles, is down to about 325 in Miami.

It seems that the motivation for him to lose weight was to trade him, Buss said Wednesday. I suspect if I knew he was going to lose 60 pounds, I might have made a different decision.

kblo247
11-02-2011, 08:13 PM
Did you know that Kobe was an all star as a sophomore, one of four on the team?

Did you know Shaq WM nothing with NVE or Eddie, but he did when on a depleted team when Kobe was made the full time starter, primary defender and facilitator, closer, and secondary scorer and rebounder?

Did you know Tex Einters called Shaq out in 00 and 01 for his weight to earn his nickname of lead insultant?

Did you know Malon called Shaq out half way through the season for not being in shape and ready to win?

Did you know it was Phil in 03 who went to Kobe and said its your team, prompting his first 40+ streak and helping the Lakers climb the standings after the toe? Did you know Shaq went public when he got into shape and said time formKobe to hand over the wheel despite the team winning?

Did you know Kobe, Caron, and Lamar played only 44 games together and were the 6th seed out west (half a game from fifth) before Lamar tore his labrum, Kobe injured his ankle ligaments and his wife had a miscarriage, and Caron hurt his abdomen?

Did you know that Caron was trade for Kwame because Jim Buss thought he, Andrew, and Lamar could start together?


Did you know that Pau was just a one time all star who never won a playoff game, and after joining Kobe, much like Shaq, Lamar, Kwame, and mihm before him saw his efficency spike?

Did you know that Shaq went on to play with Wade, a combo of a two time MVP and multiple time all star in Nash and amare, and the reigning MVP as wells two other guys who were named all stars the season before?

Did you know Shaq has missed the playoffs twice in his career to once for Kobe?

Did you know Kobe led the youngest team to the finals in the modern era in 08 and won with the youngest team the very next year? Did you know that he repeated with basically no bench outside of Odom and Bynum only contributing Luc Longley numbers because he raised his own production?

Did you know that it was Shaq who barked about money while starting a new 80M extension?

Did you know Shaq has a worse record without Kobe since their breakup and that it was he who couldn't even help a Miami team win 10 games in a weak east do he tried together a buyout before being traded, while Kobe took trash to winning records out west?

Did you know that you need help to win no matter who you are, wich is why Jordans teams never finished with a record of 500 without Pippen in his whole career?

Bonus: do you now know not to come at me with cliff notes and ESPN media points to talk about the breakup of the two idjuts I saw play together from their first to last game?

Shkelqim
11-02-2011, 08:32 PM
Cmon Shaq got into with Kobe, Shaq got into with Pat Riley. when it's the same situation every where its Shaq at fault LOL.



Kobe was young back then, Shaq wasn't. Shaq was suppose to be more mature than him.

kblo247
11-02-2011, 09:14 PM
Cmon Shaq got into with Kobe, Shaq got into with Pat Riley. when it's the same situation every where its Shaq at fault LOL.



Kobe was young back then, Shaq wasn't. Shaq was suppose to be more mature than him.

That is my main problem. Kobe was 18-24 when they were feuding, basically a teen-college kid, doesn't excuse the behavior but you are supposed to grow up the closer you get to 30. Shaq was nearing 30 and past 30 when he continued the same stick in Miami, Phoenix, and Cleveland. He didn't play enough or was around enought to cause trouble in Boston tbh.m

albertc86
11-02-2011, 09:23 PM
Who is Shaq to call anyone immature and childish? He was the biggest clown in the NBA. Does anyone else find it funny that Shaq quotes a lot of people in his book, even encounters that weren't recorded, word for word? Shaq has little credibility, imo. He bashes every team he leaves.

RaiderLakersA's
11-02-2011, 11:09 PM
Did you know that Kobe was an all star as a sophomore, one of four on the team?

Did you know Shaq WM nothing with NVE or Eddie, but he did when on a depleted team when Kobe was made the full time starter, primary defender and facilitator, closer, and secondary scorer and rebounder?

Did you know Tex Einters called Shaq out in 00 and 01 for his weight to earn his nickname of lead insultant?

Did you know Malon called Shaq out half way through the season for not being in shape and ready to win?

Did you know it was Phil in 03 who went to Kobe and said its your team, prompting his first 40+ streak and helping the Lakers climb the standings after the toe? Did you know Shaq went public when he got into shape and said time formKobe to hand over the wheel despite the team winning?

Did you know Kobe, Caron, and Lamar played only 44 games together and were the 6th seed out west (half a game from fifth) before Lamar tore his labrum, Kobe injured his ankle ligaments and his wife had a miscarriage, and Caron hurt his abdomen?

Did you know that Caron was trade for Kwame because Jim Buss thought he, Andrew, and Lamar could start together?


Did you know that Pau was just a one time all star who never won a playoff game, and after joining Kobe, much like Shaq, Lamar, Kwame, and mihm before him saw his efficency spike?

Did you know that Shaq went on to play with Wade, a combo of a two time MVP and multiple time all star in Nash and amare, and the reigning MVP as wells two other guys who were named all stars the season before?

Did you know Shaq has missed the playoffs twice in his career to once for Kobe?

Did you know Kobe led the youngest team to the finals in the modern era in 08 and won with the youngest team the very next year? Did you know that he repeated with basically no bench outside of Odom and Bynum only contributing Luc Longley numbers because he raised his own production?

Did you know that it was Shaq who barked about money while starting a new 80M extension?

Did you know Shaq has a worse record without Kobe since their breakup and that it was he who couldn't even help a Miami team win 10 games in a weak east do he tried together a buyout before being traded, while Kobe took trash to winning records out west?

Did you know that you need help to win no matter who you are, wich is why Jordans teams never finished with a record of 500 without Pippen in his whole career?

Bonus: do you now know not to come at me with cliff notes and ESPN media points to talk about the breakup of the two idjuts I saw play together from their first to last game?

:clap:

DaVille
11-03-2011, 12:55 AM
Kobe should thanking his lucky stars for his good fortune. To go from Top 3 center all-time to win three championships, and two championships with Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum. Not too Shabby for a ball hog

kblo247
11-03-2011, 12:55 AM
The Skip Bayless and Stephen A video is a good watch for anyone who feels like going to espn.com to see it

kblo247
11-03-2011, 12:58 AM
Kobe should thanking his lucky stars for his good fortune. To go from Top 3 center all-time to win three championships, and two championships with Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum. Not too Shabby for a ball hog

Yeah a 1 time all star with no playoff wins whose rebounds, field goal percentage, and resume all piled up once he joined Kobe.

Bynum was a 7 point and 5 rebound stud in those runs as well.

Not like Shaq had talent
- Penny Hardaway
- Nick Van Exel
- Eddie Jones
- Kobe Bryant
- Glen Rice
- Wade
- LeBron
- Nash
- Amare

Scrubs I tell ya :facepalm:

DaVille
11-03-2011, 01:06 AM
Yeah a 1 time all star with no playoff wins whose rebounds, field goal percentage, and resume all piled up once he joined Kobe.

Bynum was a 7 point and 5 rebound stud in those runs as well.

Not like Shaq had talent
- Penny Hardaway
- Nick Van Exel
- Eddie Jones
- Kobe Bryant
- Glen Rice
- Wade
- LeBron
- Nash
- Amare

Scrubs I tell ya :facepalm:

How many ships Kobe won without a low post threat? only MJ can say he did without low post threat. Kobe had ShaQ, Pau Gasol, and Bynum. End of story!

heyman321
11-03-2011, 01:11 AM
Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan you DIIIIG ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?

beliges
11-03-2011, 02:24 AM
How many ships Kobe won without a low post threat? only MJ can say he did without low post threat. Kobe had ShaQ, Pau Gasol, and Bynum. End of story!

How many titles did MJ win without the greatest perimeter defender of all time? Every team that makes it to the Finals is a team with enough talent to win. Kobe had help, MJ had help, Magic had help everyone to have won it had help. But Shaq had help before Kobe and couldnt win. As soon as Kobe had help after Shaq left he went to the Finals 3 years in a row and won 2 titles back to back.

beliges
11-03-2011, 02:26 AM
Kobe should thanking his lucky stars for his good fortune. To go from Top 3 center all-time to win three championships, and two championships with Pau Gasol, and Andrew Bynum. Not too Shabby for a ball hog

Only one Kobe is thanking is God for giving him two hands so he has enough fingers for more rings.

kblo247
11-03-2011, 03:25 AM
How Shaquille O'Neal Demolished a Lakers Dynasty (Inside Stories)

The 1999-00 season was not without confrontation, O'Neal in one team meeting said, "I have something to say. I think Kobe is playing too selfishly for us to win." According to Jackson, "Kobe didn't have a selfish agenda; he just felt that the way he had been playing was the best way he could contribute. Gradually, he's seen there is a different way to contribute that incorporates more of the team." The coaches would also tell the team they did not see the selfishness in Bryant that the players saw. Tex Winter even put together a video for O'Neal to show that Bryant was playing his role correctly.


Upon arriving to the Lakers that season, Tex Winter said he was stunned to discover the level of hatred O'Neal expressed toward Bryant. "There was a lot of hatred in [O'Neal's] heart ... Kobe just took it and kept going." O'Neal regularly expressed to management that he did not believe the team could win a championship with Bryant. Winter observed that O'Neal influenced the entire team against Bryant. Winter thought that Bryant made it a point to get the ball to O'Neal that year, but O'Neal did not appreciate what Bryant was doing to help him. During that seasons All-Star warm-ups, O'Neal mimicked Bryant's crossover dribble but threw the ball into the stands to accentuate Bryant's turnovers.


In 2001, O'Neal came into training camp out of shape, which disappointed Jackson and also Bryant. Bryant was leading the league in scoring as 2001 began, and Jackson said Bryant was playing the best ball of his career. O'Neal was shooting below 50 percent during stretches, and his free throw shooting was in the 20 percent range. O'Neal requested a trade after a blowout win against the Phoenix Suns where Bryant scored 38 and O'Neal scored 18. Jackson commented that their actions were "juvenile" and they should appreciate each other and play as a team. Bryant would be criticized for forcing his offense and not involving his teammates enough. According to Bryant, the team's defense was the issue and not his increased role in the offense. Bryant said that "scoring shouldn't affect (O'Neal's) defense," while O'Neal maintained that "if the big dog ain't me, then the house won't get guarded – period." Due to O'Neal's sensitivity toward criticism, Jackson overlooked O'Neal's shortcomings while maintaining his criticism of Bryant. Jerry West told O'Neal that he also had personal rivalries when he played with all-time greats Wilt Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor, but O'Neal needed to "stop being a baby ... put the team's success first."


Magic Johnson later noticed a change in O'Neal: "Shaq is saying 'It's me. I'm the one who has to get into shape, I'm the one who has to be ready for the second half run. I'm the one who has to close the middle down like I did last year..." Fisher returned on March 13, upgrading the team's defense. The Lakers won their last eight games to finish the regular season with 56 wins. O'Neal averaged 33.7 points over the final 11 games. Bryant, upon returning from an injury, was willing to build off of O'Neal now that the center was in shape and playing defense. Bryant would play unselfishly in the playoffs. O'Neal referred to Bryant as "[his] idol" and "the best player in the league, by far" following a victory in Game 1 of that year's Western Conference Finals. The Lakers won the championship after a record-setting 15 wins and only one loss. After the lone loss, which was in the opening game of the NBA Finals against the Philadelphia 76ers, Jackson criticized O'Neal for his lack of defense. Before the following game, Lakers coach Phil Jackson growled at O'Neal, "Don't be afraid to block a shot!" after O'Neal failed to block a shot in Game 1.


The 2002–03 NBA season began with the three-time defending champions getting off to one of their worst starts ever. The team was several games under .500 at 11–19 with their return to the playoffs questionable. O'Neal was sidelined with a toe injury and could have had surgery on his toe early in the summer (which would have allowed him to return to playing sooner), but he decided to wait and have the surgery performed not long before the Lakers' pre-season training camp began. He said, "I got hurt on company time, so I’ll rehab on company time." During the season, Jackson had ordered Bryant to be more aggressive, Bryant then had a nine-game streak where he scored at least 40 points and a 13-game streak where he scored 35 or better and the Lakers ended that season with the 5th seed in the Western Conference.


Just prior to the start of the 2003–04 season, Bryant privately warned Jackson, "If (O'Neal) starts saying (unreasonable) things in the press, I'll fire back ... I've had it." With Bryant absent from camp due to his legal situation and his recovery from knee surgery, O'Neal said "the full team is here." Later, after sitting out an exhibition game to rest a sore left heel, O'Neal said, "I want to be right [in the regular season] for Derek [Fisher], Karl and Gary." Bryant was again ignored by O'Neal.


When Bryant joined the Lakers in camp, O'Neal told reporters Bryant should look to be more of a passer than a scorer until Bryant's knee was fully healed. Bryant responded that he knew how to play the guard position, and O'Neal should worry about the low post. O'Neal added that he would voice his opinions as he saw fit because the Lakers were his team. He said that if Bryant, who would be a free agent at the season's end, didn't like what O'Neal had to say, Bryant should just opt out, O'Neal said "I ain't going nowhere." Jackson told the team to not discuss the issue further with reporters.


In a subsequent interview with Jim Gray of ESPN, Bryant questioned O'Neal's claims of team leadership. Bryant claimed that O'Neal came into training camp "fat and out of shape", that O'Neal blamed others for the team's defeats, and that O'Neal previously exaggerated the degree to which injuries had affected his game as a cover for simply being out of condition. Bryant criticized O'Neal's public lobbying for a contract extension when "we have two future Hall of Famers (Malone and Payton) playing here pretty much for free". He also criticized O'Neal for only taking responsibility when the team won. He accused O'Neal of threatening not to put forth his best effort if he was not passed the ball more often.


The Lakers also suspended talks with O'Neal, who wanted an extension with a pay raise on his remaining three years for $30 million. The Lakers had hoped O'Neal would take less money due to his age, physical conditioning, and games missed due to injuries. During a preseason game, O'Neal had yelled at Lakers owner Jerry Buss, "Pay me." Tex Winter said, "Even though Shaq was a big presence, he was not a great shot blocker. And he didn't like to play the screen and roll, so he put his teammates in jeopardy. He didn't like to help [on defense]."


In March, after Bryant received internal criticism about his shot selection, he scored just one point while taking three shots in the first half against Orlando which the Lakers trailed by 11. He scored 37 in the second half and tied a team record with 24 in the fourth quarter as the Lakers won in overtime. Jackson urged Bryant to be more aggressive offensively. The Lakers ultimately entered the playoffs as the second seed, thanks to an overtime victory versus the Portland Trail Blazers on the final night of the season, courtesy of a pair of buzzer beaters from Bryant.


Eventually Jackson, a favorite of O'Neal, was not offered a new contract by the Lakers. Many sports analysts and spectators assumed that this was because of Bryant, who had at times voiced displeasure with Jackson's offensive scheme. However, Tex Winter said Jackson announced at the All-Star break that he would not want to return to the Lakers if Bryant returned. Buss also longed for the Lakers to return to the fast break offense of Showtime. After learning of Jackson's departure, O'Neal demanded to be traded. He made it clear that he felt the Laker organization was making moves designed primarily to placate Bryant, saying "The direction they’re going ... I don’t want to be a part of this."


Regardless, newspapers the next day criticized Bryant for his alleged manipulation of the team. O'Neal added, "When it came to my leaving, [Kobe] could have spoken up. He could have said something. He didn't say anything." Tex Winter said, "[O'Neal] left because he couldn't get what he wanted—a huge pay raise. There was no way ownership could give him what he wanted. Shaq's demands held the franchise hostage, and the way he went about it didn't please the owner too much."


In 2007, O'Neal said that Bryant should have won the NBA Most Valuable Player Award, which was awarded to Dirk Nowitzki. During the offseason, Bryant was "beyond furious" at reports from a Laker insider that Bryant had insisted O'Neal be traded from the Lakers. Bryant reported that Buss said, "I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years ... His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait ... It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period."


O'Neal agreed with Bryant: "There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent ... I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it."


In 2008, O'Neal reiterated his belief that Bryant deserved the MVP award. During the offseason, O'Neal mentioned Bryant multiple times in the rap, saying that "Kobe couldn't do it without me", referring to Bryant and the Lakers loss in the 2008 NBA Finals to the Boston Celtics. He also was quoted saying "Kobe, tell me how my *** tastes."


Bryant and the Lakers would go to face the Orlando Magic in the 2009 NBA Finals. Shaq showed support for Kobe, on his Twitter page saying: “thats right i am saying it today and today only, i want kobe bryant to get number 4, spread da word.”


Bill Simmons of ESPN speculated that O'Neal wanted to tie Bryant with five titles and that still "Shaq hates Kobe and Kobe hates Shaq." O'Neal said he didn't "compete with little guys who run around dominating the ball, throwing up 30 shots a night – like D-Wade, Kobe."


After his retirement, O'Neal was hired by Turner Sports as an NBA analyst. When asked whether it would be difficult for him to criticize Bryant, he answered "I have the ability and the backing to give fair criticism. The only time I have trouble with people giving criticism is when they haven't walked that walk. I've walked many walks in my 19-year career, so I think any criticism that I give should be fair."


Sources:
Sports Illustrated
ESPN
The Los Angeles Times
The New York Times
The Show: The Inside Story of the Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers, by Roland Lazenby

ddhulett
11-03-2011, 12:25 PM
Explain how that is....I'd love to know.

Just my personal take on them, when you hear them speak you just get the feeling it's not genuine at all and their fluffing everything so they don't look bad. I throw Tiger Woods in with Kobe and A-Rod.

lakers4sho
11-03-2011, 01:11 PM
great stuff there kblo. Funny how a lot of people [ me included ] are misinformed about certain things thanks to popular media.

kblo247
11-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Thanks 4sho.

I had always heard of Shaq trying to hit Kobe and Kobe wanting to fight him regardless of what happened, from Forest Gump (Deaven George) on PMS (Petros and Money), but it was nice to have it confirmed by both Stephen A Smith and Skip. That adds a whole new layer to their problems.

tbone2171
11-03-2011, 04:23 PM
I may hate Kobe with a passion, I may think he belongs castrated and in jail, but didn't he lead the Lakers the 3 titles without Shaq. I wish someone on the Sixers could kill us like that.

Nope

Bruno
11-03-2011, 07:02 PM
Thanks 4sho.

I had always heard of Shaq trying to hit Kobe and Kobe wanting to fight him regardless of what happened, from Forest Gump (Deaven George) on PMS (Petros and Money), but it was nice to have it confirmed by both Stephen A Smith and Skip. That adds a whole new layer to their problems.

Well done up there dude. ^

:clap:

A key part of that bomb you dropped up there was Winters criticism of Shaq. That's a huge part of the story that never gets/got any press.

Bruno
11-03-2011, 07:05 PM
This is gona be a great read at the very least. excited for it.