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View Full Version : Some NBA players (Kobe and Fisher) are in favor of a 50-50 split



RekeHavoc
10-31-2011, 09:19 AM
http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/10/29/two.outlets.reporting.both.kobe.bryant.and.derek.f isher.are.favor.5050.bri.split

"Jason Whitlock from FoxSports and Stephen A. Smith from ESPN are not known for breaking NBA news. However, the fact that both of them came out with the same report within hours from one another is rather interesting. According to the report, both Derek Fisher and Kobe Bryant are in-favor of a 50/50 revenue split between the Players and the Owners. Smith broke the story on his ESPN radio show, Whitlock in a column on FoxSports.com."

Jason Whitlock (via FoxSports.com);
According to my source, at least one five-time champion, NBA superstar with the initials K.B. was on board with Fisher’s push for a 50-50 split. Hunter is firm that the players should not accept less than 52-48. According to my source, Hunter and a member of the executive committee convinced Fisher to stand firm at 52-48 after they questioned the Lakers point guard about his relationship with Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver.

Stephen A. Smith (via Tommy Beer from HOOPSWORLD.com):
FWIW, Stephen A Smith reported on ESPN radio that Fisher and Kobe are willing to accept 50%, while other players (KG & Pierce) would not

im guessing its because they have been in the league forever and just want to hurry up and chase their 6th ring

while kg and pierce want the best deal for the players

thoughts?

i think the players will cave soon

daleja424
10-31-2011, 09:41 AM
Lets not spin this that hard... I am sure they are not "in favor" of 50-50.

Big difference between being willing to do something and favoring it...

I am willing to take out the trash...doesn't mean I want to or think I should... just means that I am willing to do it for one reason or another.

daleja424
10-31-2011, 09:41 AM
duplicate post

RekeHavoc
10-31-2011, 09:42 AM
Lets not spin this that hard... I am sure they are not "in favor" of 50-50.

Big difference between being willing to do something and favoring it...

I am willing to take out the trash...doesn't mean I want to or think I should... just means that I am willing to do it for one reason or another.
i can agree with your point

daleja424
10-31-2011, 09:46 AM
Honestly...it doesnt surpise me though. I think the more intelligent players are starting to realize that:

a) they have no leverage
b) they are fighting over money that they will never get back...and they would rather get their money than stand on principle.

I am starting to think the players should come to the league with a 51% offer to split the difference. Just take the high road here and force the league to accept the concession or risk being painted as the bad guy.

RekeHavoc
10-31-2011, 09:47 AM
Honestly...it doesnt surpise me though. I think the more intelligent players are starting to realize that:

a) they have no leverage
b) they are fighting over money that they will never get back...and they would rather get their money than stand on principle.

I am starting to think the players should come to the league with a 51% offer to split the difference. Just take the high road hear and force the league to accept the concession or risk being painted as the bad guy.

I agree with you 100%

beasted86
10-31-2011, 10:00 AM
I think the owners eyes will grow if players come in at 51% within the next day or two. They will just say no and hold out for 50%.

If players want 51%, they will have to continue the posturing game for at least another week.

daleja424
10-31-2011, 10:05 AM
I dont think the owners will move off 50% in the short term though beasted...and it is becoming clear that momentum is building among the players to take 50-50 and get back to basketball.

I feel like it it worth the PR boost to be the side to make the split offer...especially if the players might rally together to take 50% anyways.

daleja424
10-31-2011, 10:06 AM
.

RekeHavoc
10-31-2011, 10:06 AM
I think the owners eyes will grow if players come in at 51% within the next day or two. They will just say no and hold out for 50%.

If players want 51%, they will have to continue the posturing game for at least another week.
i think the owners can accomodate them by taking the 51% with some convincing, and the fact that there is live money at stake if they dont deal now

Shmontaine
10-31-2011, 11:12 AM
Does this mean kobe will still lend money to players who need it?? or will they have to support 50-50?? just curious...

back on topic: if this is true, then the players will surely be agreeing to 50-50... my feeling is though, with sterns remarks about 'recouping losses for the owners' with these missed games, the owners are going to go to like 48% percent as soon as the players agree to 50... just my gut feeling...

dodie53
10-31-2011, 11:19 AM
just say yes already

todu82
10-31-2011, 11:19 AM
I think the players are going to cave in soon. I think they realize by doing so is the only way we'll see a NBA season this year. 50/50 is fair for both sides.

BuddhaMONK
10-31-2011, 11:22 AM
it's easy for kobe to say something like that because he knows either way he'll get max money...The players who get screwed by this are the average players (non stars)

Jamiecballer
10-31-2011, 11:28 AM
oh yeah. real screwed.

Shmontaine
10-31-2011, 11:53 AM
how will they feed their kids when they're taking up the arse like this... before long, they won't be, err.. oh yeah, they still will be in the top 1% of americans...

iggypop123
10-31-2011, 12:39 PM
whitlock is not something i can trust. he basically a paid troll who makes the wire references

VillaMaravilla
10-31-2011, 12:42 PM
man i thought i wans t going to miss the NBA but im stating to feel the itch.............get it done already before you ruin the league

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 01:09 PM
Honestly...it doesnt surpise me though. I think the more intelligent players are starting to realize that:

a) they have no leverage
b) they are fighting over money that they will never get back...and they would rather get their money than stand on principle.

I am starting to think the players should come to the league with a 51% offer to split the difference. Just take the high road here and force the league to accept the concession or risk being painted as the bad guy.

exactly right. I think this is exactly what is happening.

ink
10-31-2011, 01:11 PM
exactly right. I think this is exactly what is happening.

IMO the players have already won this by watering down the strength of the cap system. There is no way that all the owners wanted to accomplish was modifying the old CBA and haggling over BRI.

These players already have way more money than they can count. They will barely miss the money. But the owners will not have the system they need to run a more accountable, effective NBA.

If the lockout ends in the next little while with these tiny accomplishments it will not have been worth it.

Shmontaine
10-31-2011, 01:16 PM
IMO the players have already won this by watering down the strength of the cap system. There is no way that all the owners wanted to accomplish was modifying the old CBA and haggling over BRI.

These players already have way more money than they can count. They will barely miss the money. But the owners will not have the system they need to run a more accountable, effective NBA.

If the lockout ends in the next little while with these tiny accomplishments it will not have been worth it.

was a hard cap really feasable?? i don't think so...

ink
10-31-2011, 01:19 PM
was a hard cap really feasable?? i don't think so...

Feasible yes, attainable probably not.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 01:22 PM
IMO the players have already won this by watering down the strength of the cap system. There is no way that all the owners wanted to accomplish was modifying the old CBA and haggling over BRI.

These players already have way more money than they can count. They will barely miss the money. But the owners will not have the system they need to run a more accountable, effective NBA.

If the lockout ends in the next little while with these tiny accomplishments it will not have been worth it.

Agreed. The owners took it on the chin in the last 2 CBA's, and now they want the sky back. The players getting a flexible cap is really all they needed to win. And they did. The owners will get a little more money long term, and there were a few methods of protection put on contract length, etc, but the deal is right there. Just get it done at 50-50 guys, cmon

SteBO
10-31-2011, 02:08 PM
Agreed. The owners took it on the chin in the last 2 CBA's, and now they want the sky back. The players getting a flexible cap is really all they needed to win. And they did. The owners will get a little more money long term, and there were a few methods of protection put on contract length, etc, but the deal is right there. Just get it done at 50-50 guys, cmon
It will end that way within the next week. I can feel it.....

smith&wesson
10-31-2011, 02:41 PM
Honestly...it doesnt surpise me though. I think the more intelligent players are starting to realize that:

a) they have no leverage
b) they are fighting over money that they will never get back...and they would rather get their money than stand on principle.

I am starting to think the players should come to the league with a 51% offer to split the difference. Just take the high road here and force the league to accept the concession or risk being painted as the bad guy.

what if the owners have targeted that 50 to 51 % deal all along and maybe thats why hunter wont budge anymore ? already the players have taken the high road and accepted a big drop down. to the owners its not enough even at the risk of looking bad.do they really care if they are preceived as the bad guys ? they already suggested they are willing to lose the season.

the owners are saying the players made too much in previous cba deals and so its fit for them to take a huge hit now.

the players are saying we already dropped down to 52% and the owners dont even want to meet us half way or even budge a little.

its a struggle right now over pride imo. the 1-2% they are fighting for will be spread out soo much that they wont even hardley even notice it in their million dollar pay checks imo this is all about pride right now ...

like you said in first post, i dont want to asume to much out of this. i think certain players like fisher maybe just want to end this thing. and i completly agree a willingness to do somthing is not the same thing as being in favour of it.

lakerboy
10-31-2011, 03:44 PM
The diff is $100/year. That's a lot, but if you are sharing it with like 350 basketball players, it is not.

ink
10-31-2011, 03:47 PM
what if the owners have targeted that 50 to 51 % deal all along and maybe thats why hunter wont budge anymore ? already the players have taken the high road and accepted a big drop down. to the owners its not enough even at the risk of looking bad.do they really care if they are preceived as the bad guys ? they already suggested they are willing to lose the season.

the owners are saying the players made too much in previous cba deals and so its fit for them to take a huge hit now.

the players are saying we already dropped down to 52% and the owners dont even want to meet us half way or even budge a little.

its a struggle right now over pride imo. the 1-2% they are fighting for will be spread out soo much that they wont even hardley even notice it in their million dollar pay checks imo this is all about pride right now ...

like you said in first post, i dont want to asume to much out of this. i think certain players like fisher maybe just want to end this thing. and i completly agree a willingness to do somthing is not the same thing as being in favour of it.

I don't think the owners targeted BRI as a goal. I think it's a consolation prize.

They wanted (and our sport needed) an effective salary cap system. Best of all would have been a hard cap. The BRI discussions are secondary, a way to allow the other side to save face and feel they won something if the hard cap was put in place. Now that the hard cap has proven unattainable, the consolation prize is a bigger cut of the BRI. It's a poor consolation prize as anyone who has ever taken the financial payout for a serious physical injury (metaphor alert) knows. The money gets spent and the person is stuck with the often debilitating injury.

The fact that the players side managed to convince enough people that this was about BRI is a victory in itself. They managed to make this about revenue when it needed to be about system.

smith&wesson
10-31-2011, 04:54 PM
I don't think the owners targeted BRI as a goal. I think it's a consolation prize.

They wanted (and our sport needed) an effective salary cap system. Best of all would have been a hard cap. The BRI discussions are secondary, a way to allow the other side to save face and feel they won something if the hard cap was put in place. Now that the hard cap has proven unattainable, the consolation prize is a bigger cut of the BRI. It's a poor consolation prize as anyone who has ever taken the financial payout for a serious physical injury (metaphor alert) knows. The money gets spent and the person is stuck with the often debilitating injury.

The fact that the players side managed to convince enough people that this was about BRI is a victory in itself. They managed to make this about revenue when it needed to be about system.

if the bri is a consolation prize at this point there must be other aspects of the deal that are proventing them from coming to a deal. or are they really still fighting over that 1-2% margin ?

smith&wesson
10-31-2011, 04:58 PM
The diff is $100/year. That's a lot, but if you are sharing it with like 350 basketball players, it is not.

thats what im saying. where the bri is concerned it seems they are soo close that its almost pointless to fight over... whats really holding up the deal ??

kozelkid
10-31-2011, 05:09 PM
it's easy for kobe to say something like that because he knows either way he'll get max money...The players who get screwed by this are the average players (non stars)

It's funny you say that, because in reality, the players that have been screwed the most are the star players in terms of their value to their team.

In reality, if not for the max contract (which I'm personally against), star players would be making for relative to their value for their team. Guys like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Kobe, etc. are worth more than twice as much as some average player making 10mil or so.

Honestly, I think the league would truly have parity if there was
(A) a hard cap (say 70-80 mil or so)
(B) no max contract.

I'm keeping this fairly simplified, but basically you'd have a combination of teams like Lebron's Cavs, a team with majority of money to Lebron and scraps for mediocre players vs teams like Denver very deep, with enough quality role players but no stars.

BuddhaMONK
10-31-2011, 06:09 PM
It's funny you say that, because in reality, the players that have been screwed the most are the star players in terms of their value to their team.

In reality, if not for the max contract (which I'm personally against), star players would be making for relative to their value for their team. Guys like Lebron, Wade, Howard, Kobe, etc. are worth more than twice as much as some average player making 10mil or so.

Honestly, I think the league would truly have parity if there was
(A) a hard cap (say 70-80 mil or so)
(B) no max contract.

I'm keeping this fairly simplified, but basically you'd have a combination of teams like Lebron's Cavs, a team with majority of money to Lebron and scraps for mediocre players vs teams like Denver very deep, with enough quality role players but no stars.

What i'm saying is that if a team really wants a player they'll pay whatever he wants. If kobe or lebron comes to your team asking for a max contract your obviously going to give it to him, which means that every other player on the team will make way less because of it...so they get screwed, kobe gets his money and that's why he can say what he said (although I don't know why fisher agrees he'll lose a fortune)

ink
10-31-2011, 06:17 PM
if the bri is a consolation prize at this point there must be other aspects of the deal that are proventing them from coming to a deal. or are they really still fighting over that 1-2% margin ?

I think the players have deflected almost any substantial progress on a functional CBA. I doubt anyone is happy and that is why the owners are adamant that without a dramatically improved/repaired CBA there's no chance they're going to give way on the lesser issue of BRI.

daleja424
10-31-2011, 06:18 PM
ink...I think you got to excited when the owners were talking system changes.

The system was a leverage tactic all along IMO...

This was/is all about money IMO.

MTar786
10-31-2011, 06:47 PM
whats wrong with a 50-50 split? i think what is the most completely fair number is 50.1% for the players and 49.9% for the owners.
the players have to have the slightest bit higher of a share only because it is THEIR names. besides this i would say whoever wants more than 50% is extremely selfish

da ThRONe
10-31-2011, 07:31 PM
Honestly...it doesnt surpise me though. I think the more intelligent players are starting to realize that:

a) they have no leverage
b) they are fighting over money that they will never get back...and they would rather get their money than stand on principle.

I am starting to think the players should come to the league with a 51% offer to split the difference. Just take the high road here and force the league to accept the concession or risk being painted as the bad guy.

I agree with this pretty much. Lol at you saying players have no leverage. I had a huge debate on another site that the players had some leverage, but not enough to make a stance. And the majority of people are pro owners and were very adamant about making the point the players had zero leverage.

Either way the players are behind the 8ball on this deal. Better to look to get what they can.

Badluck33
10-31-2011, 07:34 PM
My prediction.

Players accept 50/50

Billy Hunter resigns.

da ThRONe
10-31-2011, 08:26 PM
ink...I think you got to excited when the owners were talking system changes.

The system was a leverage tactic all along IMO...

This was/is all about money IMO.

This.

I'm surprised David Stern didn't break his hip backing out of the hard cap then flex cap proposal so quickly.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 08:27 PM
My prediction.

Players accept 50/50

Billy Hunter resigns.

80% agree. The players were able to maintain the flexible cap, which imo, was the most important win for them by a mile.

da ThRONe
10-31-2011, 08:30 PM
80% agree. The players were able to maintain the flexible cap, which imo, was the most important win for them by a mile.

That isn't a win for the players. That was the owners/league pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. The majority of them didn't want it in the 1st place. There's was zero chance of a hard cap and I said that from the beginning.

Hawkeye15
10-31-2011, 08:31 PM
That isn't a win for the players. That was the owners/league pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. The majority of them didn't want it in the 1st place. There's was zero chance of a hard cap and I said that from the beginning.

sure, but it was still a topic for a while. Was it a, "look over here while we get what we really want over here" topic? Sure. But it was 10000% something the players needed to get.

da ThRONe
10-31-2011, 08:43 PM
sure, but it was still a topic for a while. Was it a, "look over here while we get what we really want over here" topic? Sure. But it was 10000% something the players needed to get.

I really don't think the players need to fight the cap. In the grand scheme of things they would make more money conceding the flex/hard cap and opting to push for a higher share of the BRI. Don't know why they were so adamantly against a cap. They should have called the owners bluff IMO. They set themselves up.

Arch Stanton
10-31-2011, 09:44 PM
I haven't read through but Kobe and Fisher are nearing the ends of there careers. They've made their money. But I'm all for it. 50-50 and throw down a hard cap too!

ink
10-31-2011, 09:45 PM
The fact that other leagues use a hard cap shows it was not a meaningless bluff. They just had a lot farther to go to try to turn the tide away from a player-controlled league. They couldn't achieve everything in one CBA negotiation period. They've won some of that control back again. The desire for a cap had a lot of substance and it wasn't just the owners that wanted it. You can't have a collective bargaining agreement with loopholes that by design destroy the cap. By the next CBA they may be able to achieve the hard cap the league needs.

Oh, and btw, the lockout is not over yet.

beasted86
10-31-2011, 09:55 PM
The fact that other leagues use a hard cap shows it was not a meaningless bluff. They just had a lot farther to go to try to turn the tide away from a player-controlled league. They couldn't achieve everything in one CBA negotiation period. They've won some of that control back again. The desire for a cap had a lot of substance and it wasn't just the owners that wanted it. You can't have a collective bargaining agreement with loopholes that by design destroy the cap. By the next CBA they may be able to achieve the hard cap the league needs.

Oh, and btw, the lockout is not over yet.

The NBPA doesn't opposed a hard cap like the NFL. Hunter said when he suggested such, he said the owners said no. The players will never agree to a hard cap like the NHL and the owners know it.

They have all the leverage and if they thought there was any chance at all they could have got the hard cap they would be pushing to get. The reason they stopped is because I guarantee you there is a strong accord among the big markets that are telling them to ease off that demand... so that's exactly what happened.

ink
10-31-2011, 10:45 PM
Stern talking about unanimity here in September.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/15/stern-says-owners-unified-%E2%80%9Cvast-majority%E2%80%9D-favor-hard-cap/

Not surprised that the guilty party owners (the ones who have exploited the previous CBA) are now getting cold feet and don't care about the majority of the league.

The owners only have leverage if they're talking BRI. That's all the players are listening to. But the intention has always been to go for a better cap structure. They can only get so far this time around ...

And there is still a very large chance that they don't progress tomorrow. They have already cancelled significant parts of the schedule.