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Immoknight
10-28-2011, 03:26 PM
So, I was thinking to myself during this lockout... because well, there was a lot of time on my hands. I figured basketball fans must be the most bored, because, well... we don't have much right now.

The question I thought to myself was which sport is decided most by referees/ or umps, whichever is appropriate.

So, the contenders in my opinion are:

NBA - Basketball referees decide what is a foul, what isn't... they can alter a game at any point by deciding x is a foul now that it's later in the game when it wasn't a foul before. Frankly, this is where my vote rests, but I go on.

NFL - Referees in the NFL can decide pass interference, dictate whether a player is down, what is a touchdown, etc. There is plenty of things that an NFL referee can do to alter a games results. Not to say they do, but a case can be made that an NFL referee can define things and alter results fairly easily because the game is all about perception and... well, it's a game of inches.

Soccer -Referees here can yellow card/red card a player. They can construe a foul at any point, offsides (a huge deal when it comes to goals). Here is a tough case for referee having emphasis because of how often a referee doesn't interfere in the action, letting it proceed as they play advantage. The onside/offside issue is constantly a problem, so there is a case to be made there.

Baseball - Umpires dictate the strike zone. They can say x is a strike, and x can become a ball in the next pitch. This level of control is rather absurd because of how the strike zone can shrink or expand at times, leaving either batters or pitchers in precarious situations, all at the will of the umpire. You also have umpires for bases, which can decide the game as well. There is a huge human element in baseball and that can only lead to human influencing the outcome... So, a case can be made here.

NHL - Referees decide penalties, decide goals... etc. Referees have a lot of power here but not to the extent of the other sports. Maybe you can argue the case...

Tennis - Now with shotspot, this isn't nearly as huge a deal. Back before that, line judges could effectively decide who wins. Just thought I would put it in the event someone wants to vote for it.

Boxing - How often does it go to scorecards... that's where the judges decide who wins basically. Not sure how relevant it is but thought to include it.

My Vote is NBA. Where do you vote?

Please feel free to explain what you think about each as well as your choice.

P.S. If this is in the wrong forum, can you move it accordingly, I really don't know where to post this since it revolves all sports.

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 03:50 PM
soccer

LongIslandIcedZ
10-28-2011, 05:12 PM
I think its easiest for baseball umpires to determine the outcome of the game, however it will be very obvious. Basketball refs can influence a game much more subtlety than any other official. All you gotta do is call 2 could be fouls on Dwight in the first four minutes, and your in pretty good shape to win that game.

Iggz53
10-28-2011, 05:14 PM
Easily basketball imo

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 05:15 PM
But obviously any Gymnastics/swiming competition that is bout points given by biased judges.


those thiungs shoudlnt even be called sports.


Did you see any olympics where the Home team didnt get tons of medals in such "sports"?

Sactown
10-28-2011, 11:42 PM
But obviously any Gymnastics/swiming competition that is bout points given by biased judges.


those thiungs shoudlnt even be called sports.


Did you see any olympics where the Home team didnt get tons of medals in such "sports"?

Yes, but the Judges in Olympics are a panel of different judges of different nationalities I believe, and they apply outliers, which means that if one score is significantly different from the rest it can be disqualified in the average

SportsFanatic10
10-28-2011, 11:47 PM
i think basketball no question.

i.got.the.nutz
10-29-2011, 12:03 AM
After watching game 7 of the world series, I'll say baseball.

Sadds The Gr8
10-29-2011, 12:05 AM
basketball and it's not even close.

KingPosey
10-29-2011, 12:37 AM
After watching game 7 of the world series, I'll say baseball.

hahaha Ill stick with basketball. 2002 WCF. But Im sure you have no clue what Im talking about. Most obvious case of all time.

tredigs
10-29-2011, 12:37 AM
soccer

Not even CLOSE to the amount of judgement as in basketball.

From the major sports - it's basketball. So much is interpretive and insanely hard to judge in the blink of an eye. Hence why so many people have a reason to ***** incessantly every time their team loses (there will ALWAYS be mistakes and/or 50/50 judgement calls that go against your team to an extent that other major sports don't see).

MrfadeawayJB
10-29-2011, 12:50 AM
yep i got to go with basketball on this one

Hellcrooner
10-29-2011, 12:56 AM
Not even CLOSE to the amount of judgement as in basketball.

From the major sports - it's basketball. So much is interpretive and insanely hard to judge in the blink of an eye. Hence why so many people have a reason to ***** incessantly every time their team loses (there will ALWAYS be mistakes and/or 50/50 judgement calls that go against your team to an extent that other major sports don't see).

the diference is that ONE single decision by a ref can decide not only a game but the champion , thats soccer for you.

two years ago, a last minute goal that was not conceeded by the ref changed the champion of champions league from barcelona to Inter ( and it was in the semis not even the final).

naps
10-29-2011, 01:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybj5I44nBnE&feature=related

Watch from 7:15 mark. Probably, the most inglorious moment in soccer history. That referee appointed with an agenda by FIFA president Joao Havelange. That ref was banned forever ever since that match. Germany was a fantastic team but officiating cost Argentina the world cup and will always remain as the most disgraceful moment in soccer history. Throughout the entire match they tried to **** up Maradona and his team. Also, check out at 5:12 when the red card was shown. Seeing the entire clip might provide with a better picture.

naps
10-29-2011, 01:04 AM
the diference is that ONE single decision by a ref can decide not only a game but the champion , thats soccer for you.

two years ago, a last minute goal that was not conceeded by the ref changed the champion of champions league from barcelona to Inter ( and it was in the semis not even the final).

100% agreed. 1990 final says hello. See my post above.

Hellcrooner
10-29-2011, 01:11 AM
100% agreed. 1990 final says hello. See my post above.

there are more examples.

England over Germany in 1966 with the phantom goal,.
Brazil Over Soviet Union in 1982 ( absolutely shamefull the whole game).
Germany over Argentina in 1990 as you mention.
Italy Over Spain in 1994 ( Not only did sandor puhl not consider a penalty and red card when tassoti BROKE Luis enriques nose making him bleed, but he was awarded with referiing the final :confused: it does nto come more stinky smellign than that)..... well actually

2002 , the GREATES THIEVERY EVER , south korea who is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE, reaches the Semifinals in their world cup.

REF ROBBED ITALY against them
then REf ROBBED PORTUGAL against them
Ten Ref Robbed Spain against them
( btw the egyptian ref that ****ed spain now works as a top executive at HYUNDAY......).


Go figure.

Anilyzer
10-29-2011, 01:54 AM
It's international ice skating, and then NBA basketball, in that order.

Phil Jackson pointed out that there is contact of every single play of the game--every single play! So, it's kind of like the 55 MPH speed limit, everyone is breaking the letter of the law all the time, every single person on the freeway.

But the cops (errrr, refs) can pull anyone over (errrr, call a foul) at their discretion. Announcers talk about "setting a tone", "sending a message to the players" or "letting the players know what they can get away with" in a game, but in reality it can be pretty capricious.

They already call WAY too many fouls as it is, way too many, like 100 FTs in a game is just ridiculous. Can you imagine in football if they called 40 pass interference plays a game? Or if they let the players kick "free points" for personal fouls and what not? The amount of control the refs have in the NBA is just ridiculous.

Actually, in 100 years people will probably look back at this era and just laugh at how (probably) corrupt the NBA might've been, the way we laugh when we read about the lotteries, political elections and faro games in the early 1900s. It's just too tempting I think; first off, the NBA is totally centrally controlled, so corruption is always possible; and secondly, the refs have absolute control of the game.

You could have a prime Shaq and Kobe on your team... heck, you could literally have Superman on your team, and the refs could still (easily) cause you to lose, by calling a few fouls early on and changing up all your rotations, then sticking you with a few bad calls late when you make a rally.

Chronz
10-29-2011, 02:36 AM
I dont follow any other sport as intimately as I do this one so I wouldnt know. My guess would be the NBA or NFL, I can understand the Soccer vote too since a single bad call can really hurt a game in which a team often scores once a match.

Chronz
10-29-2011, 02:37 AM
there are more examples.

England over Germany in 1966 with the phantom goal,.
Brazil Over Soviet Union in 1982 ( absolutely shamefull the whole game).
Germany over Argentina in 1990 as you mention.
Italy Over Spain in 1994 ( Not only did sandor puhl not consider a penalty and red card when tassoti BROKE Luis enriques nose making him bleed, but he was awarded with referiing the final :confused: it does nto come more stinky smellign than that)..... well actually

2002 , the GREATES THIEVERY EVER , south korea who is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE, reaches the Semifinals in their world cup.

REF ROBBED ITALY against them
then REf ROBBED PORTUGAL against them
Ten Ref Robbed Spain against them
( btw the egyptian ref that ****ed spain now works as a top executive at HYUNDAY......).


Go figure.
What about the hand of god? Am I saying that correctly?

Sadds The Gr8
10-29-2011, 02:49 AM
What about the hand of god? Am I saying that correctly?

yea that's another one of those historic bs calls/noncalls

Wade>You
10-29-2011, 02:50 AM
Golf, Starcraft 2, Poker

Hellcrooner
10-29-2011, 02:56 AM
What about the hand of god? Am I saying that correctly?

yeah well that was an awfull call with not much of a real distorting result casue argentina had already scored once and was much better.

Chronz
10-29-2011, 04:21 AM
Golf, Starcraft 2, Poker

Refs always **** me over

chi-townlove1
10-29-2011, 04:39 PM
Baseball for sure. Every single pitch.. Period. And I don't get how people can say basketball. A lot of calls are obvious and anyone could call them so baseball umps have alot more control and could possibly ruin a game, game 7 of this world series.

PhillyFaninLA
10-29-2011, 04:58 PM
Players and coaches decide games not refs.

Blaming refs is weak and takes away from the players and coaches and is nothing more than weak willed and weak minded excuses.

PhillyFaninLA
10-29-2011, 05:02 PM
To the TC just an FYI not trying to be a jerk, just an observation from you poll in case you didn't know or forgot football (soccer) is futbol.

naps
10-29-2011, 05:13 PM
Soccer is answer here for me among the sports that I follow. One bad decision can make the final result as it has happened many times.

BHF
10-29-2011, 05:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5NjPtJw83g&feature=related

ManRam
10-29-2011, 05:37 PM
Every single play in baseball is impacted by officiating...I don't get how it isn't the answer.

The NBA is the toughest sport to officiate of the bunch...hence why everyone whines so much. We don't have robots who can do it yet...so people just gotta learn to deal with it.

arkanian215
10-29-2011, 05:40 PM
It's gotta be soccer.

1. It's low scoring to begin with.
2. Having a 1 man advantage changes the dynamics of game tremendously.
3. An early yellow card to a central defender/midfielder changes their mindsets where they have to constantly give ground, even in their own 18.
4. If you miss an offsides call, then that's often a goal that shouldn't have been.
5. PK's
6. Refs decisions throughout the game decide the flow of the game and actually matter later on.

Other sports:
Baseball - nah. Balls and strikes don't really matter in the long run. Same goes for fair or foul, safe or out.
Football, basketball - nah. Early mistakes don't matter too much. Later ones matter more but aren't as massively handicapping.
Hockey - Similar to soccer but they review goals and penalized players can more often than not, return to action.

With soccer, there's that traditionalist mentality like in baseball to keep it pure but often it's a detriment when a ref has that much influence on the game. Soccer can really benefit from goal line technology or a central review system but they don't do that.

arkanian215
10-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Every single play in baseball is impacted by officiating...I don't get how it isn't the answer.

The NBA is the toughest sport to officiate of the bunch...hence why everyone whines so much. We don't have robots who can do it yet...so people just gotta learn to deal with it.

In baseball, there's a greater sample size. Statistically, you're more likely to atone for your errors if given enough opportunities. Sure they make a lot of decisions, but on average, umps out of all refs have the greatest ability to shrink the impact of those errors over the course of the game.

arkanian215
10-29-2011, 05:44 PM
What about the hand of god? Am I saying that correctly?

Hand of Gaul?

JWO35
10-29-2011, 05:51 PM
I say any Sport that has some sort of penalty/foul that can be inforced by a referee(ie Football(both) and Basketball). In, my opinion...its easier for the Ref to decide a Basketball Game vs another sport.

smith&wesson
10-29-2011, 05:51 PM
soccer.

i say this because if you watch any soccer game you will see soo many flops.. .reason being is because one yellow card or red card will even effect the player in the next game they play.

flopping was born in soccer.

ManRam
10-29-2011, 06:11 PM
The soccer argument is fair too. I still maintain that baseball is up there...but more soccer games are directly impacted by officiating probably more so than any other sport. The impact of a single bad call can be FAR more detrimental. At least in other low-scoring sports, like hockey, there is replay for goals scored and no one can be sent off for doing nothing.

MU and UW Fan
10-29-2011, 06:28 PM
Basketball for obvious reasons

gwrighter
10-29-2011, 06:49 PM
Boxing, no question. the only way to clearly win in Boxing is by KO. happens the least amount of times.

TKO decided by Ref.
Judges decide fights that go the distance.

naps
10-29-2011, 07:39 PM
The poll result is awful.

MTar786
10-29-2011, 10:08 PM
soccer.

i say this because if you watch any soccer game you will see soo many flops.. .reason being is because one yellow card or red card will even effect the player in the next game they play.

flopping was born in soccer.

you need to learn more about soccer. you do know that if you 'flop' YOU get carded.

MTar786
10-29-2011, 10:13 PM
i dont understand how soccer is more controlled by refs than baseball. In soccer linesmen call offsides. not refs. the only thing i see the ref having power over is cards and fouls. add the offsides if you want... thats still nothing compared to nba mlb or even the nfl.

The ONE issue refs in soccer have ultimate power in that i feel needs to be dealt with is penalties. They need to implement the instant replay review thing we have in the nba for FIFA. i dont see the problem in that

SA5195
10-29-2011, 10:15 PM
basketball for sure

carson005
10-29-2011, 10:16 PM
Baseball by a long shot.

Wait, do you mean which referees/umpires have the most control or affect the outcome the most?

ink
10-29-2011, 10:27 PM
Easily baseball. An umpire with a small or large strike zone can completely affect a pitcher's or hitter's game, well beyond any other sport. I don't think it's even close. Every single pitch is a judgement call. Then there are the split second calls made at each base. Hell, umpires have even been known to miss home runs before. Nothing like that happens in any other sport.

todu82
10-29-2011, 10:55 PM
Baseball.

Hellcrooner
10-29-2011, 11:07 PM
curling

BlinkManJan02
10-29-2011, 11:33 PM
Basketball or baseball definitely. Cool thread.

topdog
10-29-2011, 11:52 PM
Baseball for me. There is nothing that compares to the human error of the strike zone. Basketball certainly can be dictated by foul calls and superstars, but it doesn't beat baseball. Football utilizes a decent amount of replay with booth reviews and challenges so it is not error-proof but by far the most evenly officiated.