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View Full Version : NBA, players on cusp of agreement/POST #95 UPDATE: Talks break down (10/28).



Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:02 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aniq8gGDNOWP0nx7tQn8PzI5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_talks_102711


NEW YORK – The NBA and Players Association have moved to the cusp of ending the four-month old lockout, and there’s strong belief on both sides that a Friday bargaining session could culminate with the framework of an agreement to preserve most, if not all, of a full season.

“It’s moved to a very good place,” one source briefed on Thursday’s 7˝-hour bargaining session told Yahoo! “There’s a strong expectation [within the negotiations] that hands will shake [Friday].”

Negotiations will resume at 10:30 a.m. ET Friday with talks expected to quickly progress to the proposed revenue split between the league’s owners and players. Both sides sounded optimistic they could soon settle the major issues separating them from a new collective bargaining agreement.

Billy Hunter, the players union's executive director, is hopeful an 82-game season can be saved.

“I think we’re within reach – and within striking distance of getting a deal,” Players Association executive director Billy Hunter said. “It’s just how receptive the NBA is, and whether they want to do a deal.”

NBA commissioner David Stern declared it will be a “failure” for the league’s owners and players if a new labor agreement isn’t finished within the next few days.

Hunter said both groups were “wiped out” after a 15-hour negotiating session that began Wednesday afternoon and lasted past 3 a.m. ET Thursday. It was easier to cut short talks on Thursday because union economist, Kevin Murphy, had to travel back to New York from Chicago. In resuming the talks on the revenue split (basketball-related income), Murphy is vital to the players’ negotiations.

Before tackling the revenue split, the biggest hurdle left to solving the system issues appears to be with the use of midlevel and bi-annual exceptions for tax-paying teams.

While details were still unclear how a punitive luxury tax system would work for teams exceeding the salary cap, one league source involved in the talks told Y! Sports on Thursday night: “The tax is not the issue. The exceptions are where the fight is.”

The owners have largely relented on letting players use their “Larry Bird rights” to re-sign with teams that are over the cap, but the owners don’t want to permit teams paying luxury tax to be able to sign players to the midlevel and bi-annual exceptions, a source said.

The two sides could be closing on a three-year maximum for signing players to the midlevel exception, starting at $5 million per season, sources said.

The two sides still have a litany of “B-list” items that they barely discussed in the process, including the draft age minimum, code of conduct for players, drug testing and pensions. Nevertheless, those items often fall into place quickly once the major issues are resolved in talks.

So far, the union has tried to tie the age minimum to changes in the rookie wage scale. The union wants high-performing players to be able to renegotiate contracts sooner than between their fourth and fifth years in the league. The NBA has proposed a bonus pool that could add as much as 20 percent to players’ rookie scale contracts for such accomplishments as Rookie of the Year and All-NBA teams.

The league can encourage players to stay in school longer if players don’t have to rush to the NBA to get the clock started on significant pay raises and free agency. The NBA wants American players to be at least 20 years old and two years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft. Under the previous labor agreement, the rule was 19 years old and one year removed from high school.

While the union would like to return to having high school players being able to enter the draft, they privately know that will never happen. In the end, they’re hopeful to keep the rule as it is.

The league and players union have moved closer to consensus on several important issues within the past two days. Sources said the sides have made significant progress on one of the labor fight’s most vexing obstacles: the luxury tax teams would have to pay for going over the salary. Nevertheless, there’s still a couple sticking points with the tax that need to be resolved.

There was a significant effort among the NBA’s owners to push hard to get a deal done with the players over the weekend, sources told Y! Sports. Stern wasn’t happy with the implosion of talks that occurred with him home ill last Thursday, and sources said he was more determined than ever to rally his owners to find some compromises to make a deal with the union.

“I leave these guys alone for a little bit of time,” Stern said early Thursday, “and all hell breaks loose.”

From front-office executives to player agents, optimism is rapidly rising that there’s significant momentum toward reaching an agreement and saving most, if not all, of the 82-game regular season. Hunter said he “assumes” the full schedule could be saved if a deal is reached by “Sunday or Monday.” Stern said the league will work with the union to schedule as many games as possible.

On Wednesday and Thursday, the two sides didn’t discuss the split of revenue – a contentious issue in previous negotiating sessions – instead taking Hunter’s suggestion they “park” the discussion while negotiating system issues.

The players would be willing to move closer to a 50-50 split on basketball-related income (BRI) if they can maintain comparable exceptions to the ones they had in the previous labor agreement – and a luxury tax that doesn’t too punitively discourage big-spending teams from exceeding the salary cap, sources said.

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:03 AM
Looks like we may get a deal tomorrow. :pray:

Cal827
10-28-2011, 12:04 AM
That would be great.... lets hope the Owners don't **** anything up towards the end.

Wade>You
10-28-2011, 12:04 AM
That article has been on Y! all day, I dunno why Y! reposted it it and give it a new headline.

Sadds The Gr8
10-28-2011, 12:04 AM
:dance:

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:05 AM
That article has been on Y! all day, I dunno why Y! reposted it it and give it a new headline.

The exact same article? The meeting only ended a few hours ago; the articles only 20 minutes old.

link?

Wade>You
10-28-2011, 12:06 AM
The exact same article? The meeting only ended a few hours ago; the articles only 20 minutes old.

link?It's the same article that has been posted all day on Y!, they reposted it and renamed the headline.

Fnom11
10-28-2011, 12:11 AM
Please let this happen. I miss the NBA.

Wade>You
10-28-2011, 12:15 AM
Just wanted to say that I was wrong.

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:19 AM
Just wanted to say that I was wrong.

I was gona say, it's weird that it could have been the same article since this article talks about things that didn't happen until today, a few hours back.

Wade>You
10-28-2011, 12:21 AM
I was gona say, it's weird that it could have been the same article since this article talks about things that didn't happen until today, a few hours back.It has a similar layout (pic of Billy Hunter) and included the same comments by Billy Hunter, that's what threw me off. My bad.

VinceCarter
10-28-2011, 12:21 AM
I also miss the NBA.

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 12:23 AM
this better happen!

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:23 AM
It has a similar layout (pic of Billy Hunter) and included the same comments by Billy Hunter, that's what threw me off. My bad.

It's all good :hi5:

NYman15
10-28-2011, 12:23 AM
Definitely sounds like good news. Hopefully, they end all of this tomorrow.

Rego247
10-28-2011, 12:26 AM
I'm ready for some ball.

PurpleJesus
10-28-2011, 12:31 AM
please...and now, im gonna go do some tebowing.

SA5195
10-28-2011, 12:34 AM
Please let there be an NBA season :pray:

Duddy
10-28-2011, 12:37 AM
Please, let all of our worries about the lockout end and at the same time our worries about our teams begin tommorrow

Cal827
10-28-2011, 12:37 AM
My Mistake.

naps
10-28-2011, 12:40 AM
The exact same article? The meeting only ended a few hours ago; the articles only 20 minutes old.

link?

May be they updated the article :confused:

UPRock
10-28-2011, 12:40 AM
I'm so Happy, Hope its true :))).

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:41 AM
FROM ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7157736/nba-lockout-sides-wrap-talks-night-meet-again-friday


NEW YORK -- NBA owners and players called it an early night Thursday, with both pointing toward Friday as a decisive day for big moves to end the 119-day lockout.

Or not.

After two days of talks about the salary cap system, they will turn their attention back to the division of revenues, which derailed the negotiations last week.

Abbott: Reasons For Optimism
Where did all these good vibes come from? ESPN.com's Henry Abbott examines the new-found optimism in the NBA's labor talks. Blog

This time, commissioner David Stern said the talks had produced enough familiarity and trust "that will enable us to look forward to tomorrow, where we anticipate there will be some important and additional progress -- or not."

"But I think (union executive director Billy Hunter) and I share that view, and we're looking forward to seeing whether something good can be made to happen."

The sides again said there was some minor progress on the system issues after about 7˝ hours of talks. They decided to wrap it up and get some rest following a marathon 15-hour session Wednesday, and with union economist Kevin Murphy unavailable Thursday to discuss finances.

Hunter said he thought the sides were "within striking distance of a getting a deal" on the system, but there's still no indication either side is ready to make the big move necessary to settle the BRI split.

Owners have insisted they're not going beyond 50-50, which means the sides are still about $100 million apart annually, based on last season's revenues. Players have proposed reducing their guarantee from 57 percent down to 52.5, but they're unlikely to go much further without some concessions on the system issues.

Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard that Hunter spoke to players earlier Thursday and reiterated the union's stance that players want at least a 52-48 split of BRI.

"I think we're within reach and within striking distance of getting a deal," Hunter said. "It's just a question of how receptive the NBA is and whether or not they want to do a deal."

Asked when the significant move would happen, Hunter noticed Stern sitting in the back of his press conference and said to ask the commissioner.

"Tomorrow!" Stern yelled out.

"There are no guarantees that we'll get it done, but we're going to give it one heck of a shot tomorrow," Stern said a few minutes later in his press conference. "I think that Billy and the union's negotiators feel the same way. I know that ours do."

If they don't, Stern will have to decide whether to add more cancellations to the two weeks that have already been lost.


I think we're within reach and within striking distance of getting a deal. It's just a question of how receptive the NBA is and whether or not they want to do a deal.

A full season might be difficult even with a deal this week. It takes roughly 30 days from agreement to games being played, so it's uncertain if there's still time for any basketball in November even before examining arena availability. But 82 games would be a boost for the players, meaning they wouldn't miss the paycheck that seemed lost when the first two weeks were scrapped.

It was widely expected Stern would announce further cancellations this week after talks broke down a week ago. Instead, the sides were in communication the next day, staffs met Monday, and they were back at the bargaining table Wednesday, acting on Hunter's recommendation to "park" the revenue split and focus first on the system issues.

Players want a system that looks a lot like the old one, where teams have the ability to exceed the salary cap and where contracts and their raises are guaranteed. Owners are seeking changes that they believe would create more competitive balance by removing the big market teams' ability to spend freely beyond the cap.

They have attempted to do that by increasing the penalties teams would have to pay for exceeding the tax level. Players argue the taxes are too punitive and would scare teams from spending, thereby creating a hard cap.

"Our position hasn't changed much," union president Derek Fisher of the Lakers said. "We're just trying to make sure that players have an opportunity to have a market for themselves and for their services, the same way we're trying to meet the league and our teams on all 30 teams being competitive."

Players have said the issues of the system and split are largely tied together, though Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver have said they believe they are separate.

The key question is whether owners will insist on having both -- and it sounds like they might.

"We need to resolve both issues and both issues are critical," Silver said. "One is not dependent on the other."

The sides again met in the small-group format that has been most successful in the lockout, with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban and union vice president Roger Mason Jr. also joining the talks.

The sides have seemed close before, only for the talks to break down. It was the system issues earlier this month, followed by the split last week after three days of mediation.

They are hoping a deal can be completed by early next week, with the union believing if so there would still be enough time to reschedule the canceled games. But they've now arrived at what might be the toughest part, because it always seemed these talks would come back to money.

"We're working at it," Fisher said. "It's a tough process and as we move through and try to close the gap in as many places as we can, it gets tougher towards the end

b_russ
10-28-2011, 01:01 AM
I'm pumped.

+ Roster updates on NBA 2k (rookies!)

Sadds The Gr8
10-28-2011, 01:01 AM
I'm pumped.

+ Roster updates on NBA 2k (rookies!)

yup. i can finally start playing 2k

VinceCarter
10-28-2011, 01:03 AM
+ Roster updates on NBA 2k (rookies!)

:clap:

Chacarron
10-28-2011, 01:17 AM
Let's get it done and start basketball!!!

SportsFanatic10
10-28-2011, 01:18 AM
getter done!!! i hope we're not getting our hopes up for nothing but i'm feeling much better about this now.

Bruno
10-28-2011, 01:22 AM
It's only two articles, but this is the best news we've had in months. Fingers crossed.

THE MTL
10-28-2011, 01:24 AM
The players have conceded almost everything in this new deal, its time for the owners to stop being greedy.
Player havent asked for anything in return. In all new proposed deals, its either luxury tax increases, contracts scaled back, years taken off contracts, player movement is restricted, exceptions are eliminated, etc.

I also totally agree with the new midlevel exception scale back. Teams were getting F'CKED by these midlevel deals, especially when 8 out of 10 midlevel deals turned out bad.

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 01:24 AM
50-50 LEAVE THE CBA EXACTLY AS IT WAS

and call it a day until 2021 please.

MrfadeawayJB
10-28-2011, 01:33 AM
Lets get a season started please :pray:

Lloyd Christmas
10-28-2011, 01:36 AM
I'm not going to get my hopes up yet

THE GIPPER
10-28-2011, 01:39 AM
UPDATE: Kevin Garnett barges in and ruins everything..... again

Baller1
10-28-2011, 01:43 AM
Talks heat up Thursday, meetings resume Friday.

Talks heat up Friday, meetings to resume Monday.

Talks heat up Monday, meetings to resume Tuesday....

heyman321
10-28-2011, 01:44 AM
talks heat up thursday, meetings resume friday.

Talks heat up friday, meetings to resume monday.

Talks heat up monday, meetings to resume tuesday....

BREAKING NEWS: The Hornets RELOCATE TO SEATTLE!

Baller1
10-28-2011, 01:47 AM
BREAKING NEWS: The Hornets RELOCATE TO SEATTLE!

Not with David Stern still alive. That piece of **** needs to die... Then Seattle can regain hope.

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 01:48 AM
a deal is getting done tomorrow, book it

MJ-BULLS
10-28-2011, 01:52 AM
get this done. please.

PurpleJesus
10-28-2011, 01:59 AM
even if a deal isnt done, but a lot of progress is made, is there anyway teams can start practicing, FA can sign, etc... kind of like how the NFL was on draft day?

Tanakid777
10-28-2011, 02:01 AM
a deal is getting done tomorrow, book it

Who is that ghoulish being in your sig?

abe_froman
10-28-2011, 02:03 AM
even if a deal isnt done, but a lot of progress is made, is there anyway teams can start practicing, FA can sign, etc... kind of like how the NFL was on draft day?

no.the term lockout means exactly that

...though there are reports that some teams are cancelling scouting trips in preparation for free agency

Twista
10-28-2011, 02:03 AM
Wait, what about a midlevel exception? There won't be one any more?

itsripcity32
10-28-2011, 02:05 AM
Who is that ghoulish being in your sig?

ahaha :D

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 02:07 AM
Who is that ghoulish being in your sig?

meg white...;)

ink
10-28-2011, 02:13 AM
BREAKING NEWS: The Hornets RELOCATE TO SEATTLE!

THAT would be a reason to celebrate. Better yet, move OKC back where they belong! Sorry OKC fans.

PurpleJesus
10-28-2011, 02:16 AM
so...even if they do come to an agreement tomorrow...how long until all the verbage is made to satisfy all sides, and how long until it is all written down, and signed by everyone?

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 02:18 AM
so...even if they do come to an agreement tomorrow...how long until all the verbage is made to satisfy all sides, and how long until it is all written down, and signed by everyone?

idk but it will end up looking like this

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/decp1.jpg

Tanakid777
10-28-2011, 02:18 AM
meg white...;)

Definitely not the Meg White from the White Stripes, who is the only one I've ever heard of, unless she lost weight and lost her rack, which would be a tragedy for the ages, on par with a cancelled NBA season. Hail the NBA, and Hail Meg White's chesticles.

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 02:33 AM
Definitely not the Meg White from the White Stripes, who is the only one I've ever heard of, unless she lost weight and lost her rack, which would be a tragedy for the ages, on par with a cancelled NBA season. Hail the NBA, and Hail Meg White's chesticles.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gsTVgB8LhUA/TUpmZbqbIHI/AAAAAAAADb0/x_kHmU6i75Q/s400/meg-white.jpg

dont worry, she is still "healthy"

Tanakid777
10-28-2011, 02:48 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gsTVgB8LhUA/TUpmZbqbIHI/AAAAAAAADb0/x_kHmU6i75Q/s400/meg-white.jpg

dont worry, she is still "healthy"

-big sigh of relief-

Now as long as an NBA deal gets done, life is guaranteed to be good. -High five-

seikou8
10-28-2011, 04:35 AM
yes i want basketball back i want see my knicks :D

MELO 15
10-28-2011, 08:26 AM
yes i want basketball back i want see my knicks :D

Definantly miss basketball, and most definantly miss the knicks. And if this is any indication as to how the cap is going to be, and with an owner like dolan who doesnt mind forking out some cash, the knicks will add that last missisng piece of Cp3, and the mid level should help with adding the pieces we need to build something around melo stat and cp3, and I will officially be getting 2k12, and hopefully with the rookie updates nba 2k12 wont just have a no pic face and the actual faces and names will be used during the comentary in the game, "I dont know if that makes any sense to yall" but anyways lets get going with this season already

Hawkeye15
10-28-2011, 08:33 AM
keeping my fingers crossed, but until they get it done, its just words. It is nice that there is such optimism in both Stern and Hunter however. Great sign.

I need my puppy time, get it done!

SteBO
10-28-2011, 08:33 AM
Best news in a long time.....Let's all just hope. Today is a big day indeed :nod:

daleja424
10-28-2011, 08:41 AM
I will believe it when I see the joint press conference. I can't help but think Stern is sitting there thinking, "Hunter is going to come down to 50-50"...and Hunter is sitting there thinking, "Tomorrow is the day Stern comes up to 52-48"

I will smile when I see them in a joint press conference announcing they have come to terms and need now only present it to their respective sides for voting.

SteBO
10-28-2011, 08:43 AM
I will believe it when I see the joint press conference. I can't help but think Stern is sitting there thinking, "Hunter is going to come down to 50-50"...and Hunter is sitting there thinking, "Tomorrow is the day Stern comes up to 52-48"

I will smile when I see them in a joint press conference announcing they have come to terms and need now only present it to their respective sides for voting.
Haha I hear ya. I did find a little encouraging that a report came out stating the NBA was expected to cancel the next two weeks, but had yet to officially happen. Again, we'll see how it goes. I've been keeping track of this more the last few days.......

daleja424
10-28-2011, 08:47 AM
can you imagine the nightmare that would ensue if they finally negotiate a deal and one of the sides votes it down?

The Apprentice
10-28-2011, 08:50 AM
This would make my year!

VillaMaravilla
10-28-2011, 08:53 AM
Get it done already, im starting to miss my Knicks

mttwlsn16
10-28-2011, 09:18 AM
:dance:

this, but im still not getting my hopes up til its official

SMH!
10-28-2011, 09:19 AM
Just making sure, basketball would start on december 1st if lockout ended now?

abe_froman
10-28-2011, 09:20 AM
Just making sure, basketball would start on december 1st if lockout ended now?

yeah,probably

ewmania
10-28-2011, 09:23 AM
well i see it this way

a deal have to be closed eventually... might as well be this weekend

lets pray

LongIslandIcedZ
10-28-2011, 09:26 AM
As long as I get some Knicks on Christmas

daleja424
10-28-2011, 09:27 AM
Hell, I want some HEAT around Thanksgiving...

69centers
10-28-2011, 09:49 AM
My feeling is that they should add an extra week or two to the regular season, then they wouldn't have to cram as many back to backs in to get 82 games. The Celtics will lose 14 games in October, so 7 or 8 of those could be put into the extra two weeks, and the other 6 or 7 mixed into the regular season gaps.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Finally.

Now I can do my homework.

I only ever did homework whenever a game was on.

DwayneMVPwade
10-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! Not going to get my hopes up though

todu82
10-28-2011, 11:19 AM
It looks promising but until they get a deal done I'm not getting my hopes up.

jkiddvc20
10-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Best part about Christmas is the awesome NBA games

Please let me have those this year! :pray:

beasted86
10-28-2011, 11:29 AM
If they come to an agreement in the next day or 2, they should really try and push for a Thanksgiving day start.

jrm2054
10-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Hope this happens but don't have faith in either side

Fool
10-28-2011, 11:43 AM
Billy Hunter, the players union's executive director, is hopeful an 82-game season can be saved.

So they would essentially go a month later than normal? Because they already canceled four weeks, right?

Cano4prez
10-28-2011, 11:50 AM
So they would essentially go a month later than normal? Because they already canceled four weeks, right?

They cancellations weren't official

UPRock
10-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Finally.

Now I can do my homework.

I only ever did homework whenever a game was on.

LOL me too bro. :D

naps
10-28-2011, 12:05 PM
So they would essentially go a month later than normal? Because they already canceled four weeks, right?

The schedule will be compressed and they will be plenty of back-to-backs.

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 12:09 PM
The schedule will be compressed and they will be plenty of back-to-backs.

wich means 0 chance at the ring for Lakers/Celtics/Spurs/mavs because they are going to be on their last legs in april after so many back to backs.

KKell2507
10-28-2011, 12:11 PM
They only officially cancelled 2 weeks of the season. So November 15th is the current opening night at the current moment. However theres no way that a season could be started on that day even if they were to agree and sign a deal today.

What I see them doing is starting Wednesday of Thanksgiving. That way they still have the Thanksgiving holiday weekend games, but its also realistic in terms of time to prepare for a season. Thatd give them a few days for free agency and trades before training camps would start sometime next week. Then theyd cram half of the 10-12 games missed by each team into the current schedule and then put the other half at the end and have the playoffs start a few weeks later than scheduled. This is all of course if a deal is done this weekend, thats how i see it.

Bruno
10-28-2011, 12:48 PM
wich means 0 chance at the ring for Lakers/Celtics/Spurs/mavs because they are going to be on their last legs in april after so many back to backs.

Phil Jackson spoke of this in reference to the 1999 season. The cramming of the games and multiple back-to-back killed the chances of the two teams who he felt like should have taken the Bulls spot as champions; Utah and Indiana. As a result of the fluke scheduling, an 8th ranked team like NYK went to the finals against an up-and-coming Spurs team.

Fans of older teams don't want a crammed schedule.

With that being said, younger teams like the Heat, Thunder and Bulls will have the advantage. If they cram games, I expect a Heat/Thunder finals (depending on where Dwight or CP3 go).

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 12:53 PM
wich means 0 chance at the ring for Lakers/Celtics/Spurs/mavs because they are going to be on their last legs in april after so many back to backs.

thank god ;)

Wade>You
10-28-2011, 12:59 PM
If any coach is smart, they'll rest their players rather than try to win a top seed by playing them back-to-back-to-back.

Cal827
10-28-2011, 01:04 PM
wich means 0 chance at the ring for Lakers/Celtics/Spurs/mavs because they are going to be on their last legs in april after so many back to backs.

:dance:

That's the best thing I've heard all day! :D

ink
10-28-2011, 01:07 PM
If any coach is smart, they'll rest their players rather than try to win a top seed by playing them back-to-back-to-back.

That might also mean not having the full roster travel with the team, which would just stir up unwanted controversies. Just the travel alone can exhaust players.

Eagles4Lyfe
10-28-2011, 01:15 PM
Hopefully a late start with a sloppy schedule might mean Raptors winning their first championship :pray:

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Hopefully a late start with a sloppy schedule might mean Raptors winning their first championship :pray:

not in this lifetime ;)

Eagles4Lyfe
10-28-2011, 01:22 PM
not in this lifetime ;)
Nets and Nationals fan ehh

thenetslegend
10-28-2011, 01:31 PM
Nets and Nationals fan ehh

well you're an eagles and raptors fan :p

Sadds The Gr8
10-28-2011, 01:37 PM
Hopefully a late start with a sloppy schedule might mean Raptors winning their first championship :pray:

Andrea Bargnani - Finals MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Demar Derozan - MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Jerryd Bayless - Most Improved/All-NBA 1st defense
Linas Kleiza - 6th man of the year/All-NBA 2nd defense
Ed Davis - defensive player of the year/all-nba first defense
Dwane Casey - coach of the year
Bryan Colangelo - Executive of the year

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 03:16 PM
:dance:

That's the best thing I've heard all day! :D

really, ? do you prefer the Cheat to win the ring?

Hellcrooner
10-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Andrea Bargnani - Finals MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Demar Derozan - MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Jerryd Bayless - Most Improved/All-NBA 1st defense
Linas Kleiza - 6th man of the year/All-NBA 2nd defense
Ed Davis - defensive player of the year/all-nba first defense
Dwane Casey - coach of the year
Bryan Colangelo - Executive of the year

calderon has a better chance to be on a first defensive team than bargs or derozan.......go figure :p you need to find some defenders for god sake

SMH!
10-28-2011, 04:09 PM
^ I heard regardless of lockout ending, NBA was still going to miss a month? Idk if this is true

BHF
10-28-2011, 04:44 PM
calderon has a better chance to be on a first defensive team than bargs or derozan.......go figure :p you need to find some defenders for god sake

it will all be good when calderon leaves like i said before he is the biggest reason raps d sucks ***

BranWingss
10-28-2011, 07:20 PM
^ I heard regardless of lockout ending, NBA was still going to miss a month? Idk if this is true

Makes sense considering re-signings, trades, free agency, etc.

Three pre-season games would be perfect. A 72 game season, maybe?

Bruno
10-28-2011, 07:36 PM
NBA Labor talks break down again:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AjrM0HCOsbqxaXboZYlsvUU5nYcB?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_talks_impasse_102811

Bruno
10-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Updated Article:


NEW YORK – Labor talks between NBA owners and players broke down Friday, likely assuring the league will have a shortened season for the second time in the past 13 years.

NBA commissioner David Stern canceled games through Nov. 30, though it was unlikely those games would have been played anyway. The impasse came just one day after both sides expressed optimism they were close to an agreement that could save the league’s 2011-12 season.

The impasse on the system issues still centered on the NBA not wanting teams over the salary cap and paying luxury tax to be able to use the midlevel and bi-annual exceptions. The players want it allowed.

Owners believed the players were prepared to take a 50-50 split on BRI if the system issues were agreed upon. Privately, league sources said most of the luxury tax and exception issues were resolved and the players wouldn’t move off the 52.5 percentage to which they had dropped. There were still issues with tax-paying teams being allowed to use the midlevel exception, but owners thought there was still a compromise to make. Nevertheless, league negotiators privately said they went back to the bargaining table with the union, only because they believed that to be true.

Meanwhile, Players Association executive director Billy Hunter said Stern “snookered me” when the commissioner said he would make an economic move on Friday. Hunter insisted nothing had changed on the league’s take-it-or-leave-it 50-50 offer from a week ago. “We told them we were leaving it, just like we left it before,” Hunter said.

Stern said Hunter told him the union wouldn’t go below 52 percent on BRI, that he had many calls from agents and he closed his book and left.

“I would say both sides are very badly damaged,” Stern said. “There will be two severe sets of losses, but that’s what happens in a labor dispute.”

Given the progress owners and players have made this week, both sides could try to regroup and again resume talks before too long.

“We have ended talks for today and for now,” Players Association president Derek Fisher said. “There wasn’t enough to close this deal.”

TO Rapz
10-28-2011, 07:54 PM
Andrea Bargnani - Finals MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Demar Derozan - MVP/All-NBA 1st defense
Jerryd Bayless - Most Improved/All-NBA 1st defense
Linas Kleiza - 6th man of the year/All-NBA 2nd defense
Ed Davis - defensive player of the year/all-nba first defense
Dwane Casey - coach of the year
Bryan Colangelo - Executive of the year

x2

NYtilIdie
10-28-2011, 08:30 PM
:bang:

Baller1
10-28-2011, 09:47 PM
Talks heat up Thursday, meetings resume Friday.

Talks heat up Friday, meetings to resume Monday.

Talks heat up Monday, meetings to resume Tuesday....

Like I said...

kingsdelez24
10-29-2011, 08:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oleKfixy-7A&feature=fvwrel

Tmac admits lockouts his fault

but in all seriousness this lockout is getting out of hand

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kntresistheheat
10-29-2011, 08:41 PM
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.

ink
10-29-2011, 10:09 PM
My only concern is that the deal doesn't do enough to end the control the players have over the league. To me, it's not about money at all since I know that the owners will still gouge with ticket prices to pay the ridiculous player salaries and keep the NBA out of reach for EXACTLY the demographic that is the most loyal fan base. You can't tell me that this league appeals to higher income fans and yet it is priced that way. So, since that's not getting resolved, the most important issue is for the teams to regain control of their own destinies rather than being exploited and dictated to by players and their agents.

Hellcrooner
10-29-2011, 10:57 PM
My only concern is that the deal doesn't do enough to end the control the players have over the league. To me, it's not about money at all since I know that the owners will still gouge with ticket prices to pay the ridiculous player salaries and keep the NBA out of reach for EXACTLY the demographic that is the most loyal fan base. You can't tell me that this league appeals to higher income fans and yet it is priced that way. So, since that's not getting resolved, the most important issue is for the teams to regain control of their own destinies rather than being exploited and dictated to by players and their agents.

so, players dont have control over THEIR OWN destinys....

for gods sake ink..........i dont want to start again with the thing.....

altough im strting to thing that better that the S word i should start making parallels with a brothel, it fits better imo.

iggypop123
10-29-2011, 10:58 PM
NY times says deals are basically 95 % agreed upon. BRI is the last thing literally to get done. its tough because both sides feel they have already caved enough. the nba feels at 50 50 they may profit but barely and if they give a bit more say 51% the owners could rebel and say **** this ****. the players have the same dilema. if they give up more then the agents could just tell the players your leadership has failed just decertify.

Knick4Knack
10-29-2011, 11:09 PM
:facepalm:
My only concern is that the deal doesn't do enough to end the control the players have over the league. To me, it's not about money at all since I know that the owners will still gouge with ticket prices to pay the ridiculous player salaries and keep the NBA out of reach for EXACTLY the demographic that is the most loyal fan base. You can't tell me that this league appeals to higher income fans and yet it is priced that way. So, since that's not getting resolved, the most important issue is for the teams to regain control of their own destinies rather than being exploited and dictated to by players and their agents.

Who says that they have to get a marquee star? Truth be told, players like Kobe bring in far more than their salary. You know it and I know it.

Baseball players make the MOST of any professional sport. I'm a yankee fan, and had to watch A.J. Burnett collect 17 mil dollars while boasted an era of 5.00 and stinking it up on the regular. Yet, all I hear is that the NBA system is broken.

I've heard all this talk about overpayed, selfish NBA players "nothing special about dribbling a ball and shooting it through a hoop". In terms of priorities, you're right, that skill is not as essential as say being a doctor, engineer etc. But tell me, what the heck is so great about smacking a ball with a stick and then running as fast as you can.

I'm not belittling Baseball. I actually love it. My point is that I have read so much crap about how NBA players and agents need to be taken down a notch. But in Baseball and football, its quite alright?

Yankees keep a 200+ mil balance, Where is the parity in that?

Phil jackson made around 10 mil last year. I haven't once heard a word about coaches "giving back". Why is that?

How about David Stern? Each team pays him roughly 500,000 per. Is he doing any giving back?

So before you demonize NBA players. Consider what else is out there.

Or, you can catch Sarver vs Gilbert 1 on 1. They should do fine sine they OWN THEIR OWN TEAMS.

ink
10-29-2011, 11:26 PM
^^ Not too clear on your point(s) or what that had to do with the points I was making.

About the Kobe point you made, another poster made the excellent point that pro sports is not the only case where highly talented employees generate more income than they receive as pay. Just ask the guys who developed the iPod. Bet they didn't get the full profits or even 52% of them.

Knick4Knack
10-29-2011, 11:45 PM
^^ Not too clear on your point(s) or what that had to do with the points I was making.

About the Kobe point you made, another poster made the excellent point that pro sports is not the only case where highly talented employees generate more income than they receive as pay. Just ask the guys who developed the iPod. Bet they didn't get the full profits or even 52% of them.

LOL. I also bet that they didn't invent the ipod 82 times a year. That example is terrible at best. You are comparing the singular event of product development to the ongoing performance of a developed product (Kobe being the developed product).

Players are paid on a unique basis. Per game. That is why, when they are suspended, that are not paid for those games.

As far as what it had to do with your previous statement, your stated position is that the players and agents have too much power over the league. My response is that that level of power is no different than the majority of other leagues out there, so what is the ideal? You essentially, section off basketball players as a cancer in that post and have in previous posts. But you do not equate that with an overall consideration or implication of that cancer in other sports, where it exits all the same.

iggypop123
10-30-2011, 12:13 AM
sounds like bri is not the only problem. i think the owners will make this ugly soon. they are gonna dig in on not letting luxury tax teams sign people with the MLE. or sign and trades for those over the tax aka force dwight to stay. my guess is no matter what vets would just say the hell with it and do the grant hill thing and take the minimum to pay for the contender. the young guys like jr smith or other good but not great players would take the mle and go to a terrible team just to get paid.

Chronz
10-30-2011, 12:16 AM
^^ Not too clear on your point(s) or what that had to do with the points I was making.

About the Kobe point you made, another poster made the excellent point that pro sports is not the only case where highly talented employees generate more income than they receive as pay. Just ask the guys who developed the iPod. Bet they didn't get the full profits or even 52% of them.
What point is that? Im just asking because I dont want to rifle through this thread to find it. What exactly are the players and their agents doing?

ink
10-30-2011, 12:31 AM
LOL. I also bet that they didn't invent the ipod 82 times a year. That example is terrible at best. You are comparing the singular event of product development to the ongoing performance of a developed product (Kobe being the developed product).

Players are paid on a unique basis. Per game. That is why, when they are suspended, that are not paid for those games.

No, players are not paid by the game.

And I have no idea what you're getting at with the point that the iPod wasn't invented 82 times a year. It also wasn't developed in a single day right?


As far as what it had to do with your previous statement, your stated position is that the players and agents have too much power over the league. My response is that that level of power is no different than the majority of other leagues out there, so what is the ideal? You essentially, section off basketball players as a cancer in that post and have in previous posts. But you do not equate that with an overall consideration or implication of that cancer in other sports, where it exits all the same.

I've explained this in another thread. You've used the word "cancer" not me.

Knick4Knack
10-30-2011, 01:22 AM
No, players are not paid by the game.And I have no idea what you're getting at with the point that the iPod wasn't invented 82 times a year. It also wasn't developed in a single day right?



I've explained this in another thread. You've used the word "cancer" not me.

Really, oh, so in an abbreviated season, I suppose the players will get back pay for all those games missed? That makes no sense.

Players are payed per game. Their salary is based on what they will make if they come to work for 82 games.

Sure, injuries occur, but that is why you see them dressed and sitting with their team. They are still on the clock, have to be there. They can't just not show up, unless they have been excused by their team (injury reasons, what have you).

If a player just decides to miss a game, are you saying it still shows up in his paycheck?

No.:facepalm:

Let's be realistic here.

As far as the ipod being developed over time, you have answered your own question. The employees are being paid to develop a product, and I'm sure have consented to some form of agreement on that pay being their compenstation, or xtra perks, sweeteners- what-have-you. They are essentially working to make something that people hopefully will want.

NBA players are, for the most part, the developed product. Consumers pay to see them. Your comparison is poor because you are comparing the development of a product to the actual physical product. It's akin to comparing an iphone developer to the iphone itself. NBA players ARE the product. People pay see the nba product perform, in the same way they pay monthly for their iphone to perform.

Chronz
10-30-2011, 02:03 AM
Im completely lost

ink
10-30-2011, 03:28 AM
Really, oh, so in an abbreviated season, I suppose the players will get back pay for all those games missed? That makes no sense.

Players are payed per game. Their salary is based on what they will make if they come to work for 82 games.

Sure, injuries occur, but that is why you see them dressed and sitting with their team. They are still on the clock, have to be there. They can't just not show up, unless they have been excused by their team (injury reasons, what have you).

If a player just decides to miss a game, are you saying it still shows up in his paycheck?

No.:facepalm:

Let's be realistic here.

As far as the ipod being developed over time, you have answered your own question. The employees are being paid to develop a product, and I'm sure have consented to some form of agreement on that pay being their compenstation, or xtra perks, sweeteners- what-have-you. They are essentially working to make something that people hopefully will want.

NBA players are, for the most part, the developed product. Consumers pay to see them. Your comparison is poor because you are comparing the development of a product to the actual physical product. It's akin to comparing an iphone developer to the iphone itself. NBA players ARE the product. People pay see the nba product perform, in the same way they pay monthly for their iphone to perform.

I know you are trying but your posts are not clearly related to anything you've quoted. Sorry.

ink
10-30-2011, 03:31 AM
NY times says deals are basically 95 % agreed upon. BRI is the last thing literally to get done. its tough because both sides feel they have already caved enough. the nba feels at 50 50 they may profit but barely and if they give a bit more say 51% the owners could rebel and say **** this ****. the players have the same dilema. if they give up more then the agents could just tell the players your leadership has failed just decertify.

If they're talking money we know they've made as much progress as they're going to make on system. The lockout is probably going to be over soon. The cancellation of games was just an inevitability and only a last minute deal last week would have prevented those games from cancellation.

Knick4Knack
10-30-2011, 05:04 AM
I know you are trying but your posts are not clearly related to anything you've quoted. Sorry.

You choose not to respond because you have failed to defend your argument. Don't be lazy. I rarely post, but when I find someone whom I feel I can engage with in a good debate, I surface. Not to say that you should feel special, but you've let me down.

The ipod example was clear, and it was your example. The differentiation between product development and the actual product is clear.

"I dont know what you are talking about", "Not clearly related", "I don't understand". These are the things that are said when one deflects a shattered point of contention in their argument.

And so, I'll find another d'artagnan.....

ink
10-30-2011, 01:06 PM
You choose not to respond because you have failed to defend your argument. Don't be lazy. I rarely post, but when I find someone whom I feel I can engage with in a good debate, I surface. Not to say that you should feel special, but you've let me down.

The ipod example was clear, and it was your example. The differentiation between product development and the actual product is clear.

"I dont know what you are talking about", "Not clearly related", "I don't understand". These are the things that are said when one deflects a shattered point of contention in their argument.

And so, I'll find another d'artagnan.....

Feel free. I'm not going on a tangent discussing what was clearly an example. I was talking about the talent that contributed to the product. In both cases the example works: in basketball the athlete contributes to the product (I don't buy into the cliche that the athlete is the product because if that were true we'd be watching them play on a community court without a coach, etc, etc) and with Apple or any other major corporation, the developer/designer/builder/planner/consultant also contributes to the product. There are exceptional workers in many industries.

And I'm sorry but I genuinely couldn't work out where our two conversations related to each other.