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RekeHavoc
10-26-2011, 01:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7151070/chicago-bulls-derrick-rose-wants-do-away-nba-salary-cap

HONOLULU -- Chicago Bulls star Derrick Rose has established himself among the elite NBA players in just three seasons. His salary, however, doesn't come anywhere near the top in the league, let alone his own team.

Because of rookie salary scale restrictions, the league's reigning MVP earns about $5.5 million a season -- far less than other NBA stars. The scale is on the table between the league and players' association during its extended labor dispute that could result in more games being canceled and might wipe out the season.

Rose, in Hawaii this week visiting military personnel as part of the Hoops for Troops USO Tour, will undoubtedly earn a lot more when he becomes a free agent at the end of his four-year, $22.5 million contract, depending on the new agreement, of course.

"I wish it was back like where it was in the old days where there wasn't a cap," Rose told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "Back in the day, they were giving guys coming out of college multimillion-dollar contracts, so why stop it now? The game is growing. There's no need to stop it."

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The union would like players to get out from the rookie salary scale quicker than five years. On Monday, union executive director Billy Hunter mentioned Rose and Rookie of the Year Blake Griffin during an hour-long podcast with ESPN.com as examples of players who are underpaid because there are still locked into their scale figures.

The league said it has proposed a new bonus pool for top-performing rookie scale players who earn league honors as such as MVP or are on the All-NBA first, second or third teams.

Rose said the labor strife is about getting an agreement that's fair.

"Greed is not on our side," Rose said. "We're not greedy. ... What they're trying to do to us is dead wrong."

The sides met for three days with a federal mediator before talks broke down Thursday after players said owners insisted they commit to a 50-50 split of revenues before any further discussions about the salary cap system could continue.

"I know that everybody is waiting for us to play, but it has to be on the right terms." Rose said.

Rose has been waiting and spending most of his time training in Los Angeles with other NBA players, including Atlanta Hawks center Al Horford, who also is in Hawaii.

"We owe it to ourselves and others like the guys who are coming up to have a good deal," Horford said. "I felt like in the past, the players have given up a lot to the owners and I just feel like it's excessive that way they're trying to do it ... At the end of the day, if you look at who's asking for money and all that, it's the owners. They're the ones that want to make all the drastic changes to all these things that haven't really been an issue."

Rose, who turned 23 this month, is the youngest MVP in NBA history and joined Michael Jordan as the only Bulls player to earn the honor.

More On The Bulls

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"The most difficult part is, every day you wake up and you see games canceled," he said. "The fans are fiending for it. I know we're itching to play. And I know that it'll hurt the game because our fans are loyal and for us not to be playing, I think it'll hurt them more."

He is coming off a season where he averaged 25 points and 7.7 assists, while leading the Bulls to a league-high 62 wins and the Eastern Conference finals. The Miami Heat overwhelmed the top-seeded Bulls by dominating the fourth quarters, with LeBron James containing the Bulls' point guard.

Rose said he couldn't wait to get back on the court to silence some of his critics and test some of the things he's been working on since the playoffs, such as conditioning, isolation skills, going against bigger players and learning how to get fouled.

"I put a lot of work into my game. I take my basketball life very serious. That's just my life," he said. "For people to still talk negative about you, I think that's just life, period. You just go with it. But I feed off of it."

As far as his first trip to the islands, Rose said he was humbled by his welcome and meeting the troops. Rose and Horford are joined by Atlanta's Joe Johnson, Charlotte's D.J. Augustin, Sacramento's Tyreke Evans, New Jersey's Brook Lopez, Phoenix's Robin Lopez, Washington's JaVale McGee and Miami's Mike Miller. They are scheduled to visit military families, hold clinics and play games at an Army, Navy and Marine Corps bases.

Earlier this week, they met with some soldiers wounded in action.

"They're around my age and younger than I am," Rose said. "Just seeing that they're fighting for us, I just let them know we're not taking them for granted."



but then again,why would any player want a cap?

and as a bulls fan, im kind of sick of hearing him speak about the lockout and stuff, i miss the old days where he would barely speak about anything other than his team and his game

ah well...

akagiredsuns
10-26-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm fast starting to lose respect for D-Rose. The guy needs to keep his mouth shut before people start seeing him in a different light. He needs to let this just blow over. His opinion is messing things up.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-26-2011, 01:57 PM
How is his opinion messing things up? Do you think they take quotes of what Derrick Rose said to the media and bring it up in negotiations?

PhillyFaninLA
10-26-2011, 01:58 PM
I understand with that unemployment, foreclosures, and collapsing economies in US and Europe its hard to not feel bad for a guy only making $5.5 million a year, I mean can you even buy bread and milk with that salary.

RevisIsland
10-26-2011, 01:58 PM
Here's how I think the cap should work. It should be a hard cap with non guaranteed contracts and no maximum for individual players. Basically, the NFL model. I totally think the Lebrons and Wades and Kobes of the world are worth 20-25 mil per year, they deserve to be payed that much (similar to how much the Mannings and Bradys make), it's those mid level guys that need to make less.

RekeHavoc
10-26-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm fast starting to lose respect for D-Rose. The guy needs to keep his mouth shut before people start seeing him in a different light. He needs to let this just blow over. His opinion is messing things up.

hes starting to piss me off!

Tmath
10-26-2011, 02:02 PM
Rose needs to stfu.

D1JM
10-26-2011, 02:04 PM
I'm fast starting to lose respect for D-Rose. The guy needs to keep his mouth shut before people start seeing him in a different light. He needs to let this just blow over. His opinion is messing things up.

the owners are putting up a bulletin board full with rose's quotes as we speak.


like if the owners even gave a **** how a player feels about the lockout :laugh2:

Avenged
10-26-2011, 02:07 PM
It's effecting him, why should he shut his mouth? :confused:

He didn't even say anything bad.

rapjuicer06
10-26-2011, 02:08 PM
Oh Rose...stfu

RekeHavoc
10-26-2011, 02:09 PM
im patiently waiting for him to pull a lebron and say he wants contraction

ink
10-26-2011, 02:10 PM
My first response was "shocker!" but my second response was that this is actually pretty ****ing out of touch. Amazing that he doesn't see that there's going to be a cap one way or another. They're not going backwards ...

pebloemer
10-26-2011, 02:13 PM
It's pretty obvious that a rising superstar would be against a salary cap. Not sure why everyone is so hard on Rose though. I'm not sure what he said that is contentious to some of you. Players have a right to fight the PR war too. I don't agree with everything they say, but I can definitely see where their standpoint comes from.

Tmath
10-26-2011, 02:14 PM
I wish it was like back in the day, they were giving guys coming out of college multimillion-dollar contracts.


We're not greedy.

:rolleyes:

Sinestro
10-26-2011, 02:17 PM
Why shouldn't he be allowed to speak his mind? He has an opinion and he deserves to share just because people may not agree with it doesn't mean he should stay quiet. That aside I think the Union brings up a point that some young superstars are VERY underpaid and there should be shorter rookie contracts it helps the young superstars and teams get rid of busts easier.

Twista
10-26-2011, 02:19 PM
I like D.Rose, but he should not be talking about this. It's a highly sensitive, very controversial topic and there is just no way that talking about it can benefit him. Sometimes it's better to say nothing, and this is one of those times.

Shmontaine
10-26-2011, 02:22 PM
what he has to realize is he's an exception to the rookie scale payroll. if every rookie that had potential got their huge contract, the league would be much worse off IMO... Oden? Darko? those are just the ones that pop into my head when i think of this... sure, drose probably could command more, but it was the vet players in '98 who saw the rookies (KG for example) who were getting way more than them and were in favor of the rookie pay scale in order for teams to invest in the vets...

SteBO
10-26-2011, 02:34 PM
So owners can spew their lies to the media, but Rose shouldn't be speaking his mind? Mkay.

ink
10-26-2011, 02:42 PM
So owners can spew their lies to the media, but Rose shouldn't be speaking his mind? Mkay.

How do you know anyone is lying? Everyone sees things from their point of view. It's no surprise that owners and players are going to see things from opposing perspectives on the actual truth. The point is not to get sucked into either side's rhetoric.

DRose's point is just kind of dumb considering the negotiations that are going on. It seems dumb for him to be loose-lipped at a time like this, but who knows, maybe it's a direct appeal to his fans for sympathy. Maybe Billy Hunter gave him the green light to do that; it wouldn't surprise me because Hunter's strategies have been pretty :eyebrow: questionable throughout this whole thing.

Since they're all overpaid and most of the rest of the world is struggling financially, I'm not really sure how DRose expects much sympathy.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 02:47 PM
How do you know anyone is lying? Everyone sees things from their point of view. It's no surprise that owners and players are going to see things from opposing perspectives on the actual truth. The point is not to get sucked into either side's rhetoric.

DRose's point is just kind of dumb considering the negotiations that are going on. It seems dumb for him to be loose-lipped at a time like this, but who knows, maybe it's a direct appeal to his fans for sympathy. Maybe Billy Hunter gave him the green light to do that; it wouldn't surprise me because Hunter's strategies have been pretty :eyebrow: questionable throughout this whole thing.

Since they're all overpaid and most of the rest of the world is struggling financially, I'm not really sure how DRose expects much sympathy.
Rose is an expection obviously since he's still under his rookie contract(technically). But I don't see why people are in here saying "Rose should stfu". He didn't even say anything bad. The owners say what they wanna say, so I see no reason why Rose can't speak his mind. I could name so many "points" owners have brought up that are dumb, but they say it anyway. So, again, no reason to get on Rose. None.

ink
10-26-2011, 02:51 PM
Rose is an expection obviously since he's still under his rookie contract(technically). But I don't see why people are in here saying "Rose should stfu". He didn't even say anything bad. The owners say what they wanna say, so I see no reason why Rose can't speak his mind. I could name so many "points" owners have brought up that are dumb, but they say it anyway. So, again, no reason to get on Rose. None.

I guess my question is "who cares what DRose thinks about his salary" when the rest of the world is struggling financially. The dumbness is in the lack of awareness.

DLeeicious
10-26-2011, 02:52 PM
^^^ Exactly (to Stebo), wtf why can't he talk about a subject that directly affects him when he was 100% asked to comment on the topic. It's not like he called a press conference to get some things off his chest, he was doing an interview and asked questions and he gave his opinion on matter that directly affect himself and his peers.

People try so hard on here to hate someone who is so incredibly likeable. Keep trying to force it in there.

DLeeicious
10-26-2011, 02:53 PM
I guess my question is "who cares what DRose thinks about his salary" when the rest of the world is struggling financially. The dumbness is in the lack of awareness.

No doubt that noone cares so maybe the main issue (as with every Rose thread started in the NBA forum) is why this was a thread? Certainly Rose can't be at fault for answering questions about his career - maybe the interviewer should be at fault?

ink
10-26-2011, 02:55 PM
^^^ Exactly (to Stebo), wtf why can't he talk about a subject that directly affects him when he was 100% asked to comment on the topic. It's not like he called a press conference to get some things off his chest, he was doing an interview and asked questions and he gave his opinion on matter that directly affect himself and his peers.

People try so hard on here to hate someone who is so incredibly likeable. Keep trying to force it in there.

Fair enough. I still don't see how anyone could have sympathy for these guys. It's a bad economic time to be complaining about your multi-million dollar salary ...

Shmontaine
10-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Rose is an expection obviously since he's still under his rookie contract(technically). But I don't see why people are in here saying "Rose should stfu". He didn't even say anything bad. The owners say what they wanna say, so I see no reason why Rose can't speak his mind. I could name so many "points" owners have brought up that are dumb, but they say it anyway. So, again, no reason to get on Rose. None.

... it's only the blatant rose haters saying this... anything to shoot the man down...

bears88
10-26-2011, 02:57 PM
I guess my question is "who cares what DRose thinks about his salary" when the rest of the world is struggling financially. The dumbness is in the lack of awareness.

why are you trying to hate on D. Rose is it so wrong for him to speak whats on his mind, if you were in his place you would be doing the same thing.

ink
10-26-2011, 02:58 PM
No doubt that noone cares so maybe the main issue (as with every Rose thread started in the NBA forum) is why this was a thread? Certainly Rose can't be at fault for answering questions about his career - maybe the interviewer should be at fault?

Def. the interviewer was trying to stir up ****. No doubt. But doesn't this union have a strategy for dealing with the media during a negotiation?

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:01 PM
Fair enough. I still don't see how anyone could have sympathy for these guys. It's a bad economic time to be complaining about your multi-million dollar salary ...
Believe me, I understand what you're saying. At the end of the day though, it is what it is and since he was asked the question, he was inclined to answer. Did he have to? No. But was it wrong to answer? Far from it.


... it's only the blatant rose haters saying this... anything to shoot the man down...
Haha. If this is what people are going to do just to get on the guy, then I guess they're the ones with the problems. Read the text in my sig.....

ink
10-26-2011, 03:01 PM
why are you trying to hate on D. Rose is it so wrong for him to speak whats on his mind, if you were in his place you would be doing the same thing.

You need to differentiate between "hate" and being skeptical and fed up with spoiled athletes. DRose seems like a nice guy and I have no trouble with him, so no hate here. Would I say the same thing? Hopefully not. I'm extremely team-oriented on team sports (weird huh?) and wouldn't be debating my salary with the media. I'd be negotiating through the proper channels and putting all my energy into the team -- even during a lockout. This is the best time to keep it shut. If you're on the negotiating committee, then you do that job and negotiate; otherwise, "no comment" is a good option.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:03 PM
Def. the interviewer was trying to stir up ****. No doubt. But doesn't this union have a strategy for dealing with the media during a negotiation?
My guess is that players can't discuss what exactly was said during the negotiations. Other than that, I don't know.

Wade>You
10-26-2011, 03:03 PM
It's effecting him, why should he shut his mouth? :confused:

He didn't even say anything bad.We really haven't read anything logical from the pro-owner fans throughout this debacle.

Sactown
10-26-2011, 03:06 PM
How is this thread worthy? All superstars would love to eliminate a salary cap

ink
10-26-2011, 03:07 PM
We really haven't read anything logical from the pro-owner fans throughout this debacle.

So, people who you disagree with don't use logic I guess. lol. In fact, I've seen a ton of logic from so-called pro-owner fans. In fact, most of those that you're lumping in that category actually see the owners and players as being together against the fans. And they have supported those views with logical arguments. :D

Twista
10-26-2011, 03:09 PM
the owners can't even agree with eachother....I don't get how fan are blaming the players for being greedy when the owners CAN'T. EVEN. AGREE. WITH. EACH. OTHER.

Remember that this is a lockout. Not a strike.

pd1dish
10-26-2011, 03:10 PM
I understand with that unemployment, foreclosures, and collapsing economies in US and Europe its hard to not feel bad for a guy only making $5.5 million a year, I mean can you even buy bread and milk with that salary.

the funny thing is that the majority of NBA fans take the players' side because the owners are greedy, stubborn, etc. however, the mid-level players of the NBA make much, much more than the mid level players of other sports. Rose is one of the few who is getting paid under what they deserve, while half the players in this league get overpaid by millions and millions when its all said and done. yes, the top players in the NBA get paid less than the top players of the MLB and NFL, but you also have to remember that the NBA is a consistent 3rd in ratings. the top NBA players also get paid the most in endorsements because they are the most recognizable players from any sport.

you make fun of Rose for making $5.5 million and then complaining about it while other players with half the skill of Rose make more than him but still people want to defend those players because the owners make too much....ha

bears88
10-26-2011, 03:11 PM
You need to differentiate between "hate" and being skeptical and fed up with spoiled athletes. DRose seems like a nice guy and I have no trouble with him, so no hate here. Would I say the same thing? Hopefully not. I'm extremely team-oriented on team sports (weird huh?) and wouldn't be debating my salary with the media. I'd be negotiating through the proper channels and putting all my energy into the team -- even during a lockout. This is the best time to keep it shut. If you're on the negotiating committee, then you do that job and negotiate; otherwise, "no comment" is a good option.

please don't think that I'm Disrespecting your option, I'm not, but at the same time every time Rose speaks his mind people always find something to complain about.

ink
10-26-2011, 03:11 PM
the owners can't even agree with eachother....I don't get how fan are blaming the players for being greedy when the owners CAN'T. EVEN. AGREE. WITH. EACH. OTHER.

Remember that this is a lockout. Not a strike.

That's probably why some are taking no side at all except to say that the league the players have taken over isn't working. We pretty much have to plug our noses and hope the profit-oriented owners can get the game back on track.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:14 PM
That's probably why some are taking no side at all except to say that the league the players have taken over isn't working. We pretty much have to plug our noses and hope the profit-oriented owners can get the game back on track.
Honest question Ink. Do you really think it's proper for the league/owners to rule the players?

ink
10-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Honest question Ink. Do you really think it's proper for the league/owners to rule the players?

Yes, they own the league.

And their priority is with the team and the league rather than with the individual stars. I don't want anything to do with a star-run basketball league. I want a team sport to be a TEAM sport, not a wank for superstars.

gwrighter
10-26-2011, 03:19 PM
Honest question Ink. Do you really think it's proper for the league/owners to rule the players?

every time each of us goes to work, if not for ourselves we are being ruled by the entity that we work for. This is what being an employee is. likewise in our lives we have to follow orders,& so do they. They have a means to negotiate their compensation for their duties & they are doing that now. If there is something wrong with this then there is something wrong with the labour structure in general.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:39 PM
Yes, they own the league.

And their priority is with the team and the league rather than with the individual stars. I don't want anything to do with a star-run basketball league. I want a team sport to be a TEAM sport, not a wank for superstars.
:sigh: Okay, here's my issue with that line of thinking....

1) The players are the product, therefore without them, the NBA would be nothing. The owners fail to come to grips with this, hence the lockout. Nobody on this site and around the world cares about the owners sitting in their offices doing what they do. Sorry, they don't. We, as fans, pay our hard-earned dollars to watch the players play a sport at a high level (in this case, an orange ball going through a hoop)

2) These players are human beings. Not objects. To restrict what these players do and restrict where these players go is wrong. Period. What you've essentially told me to this point during our pleasant and productive back and forth, is that these players shouldn't have any say or shouldn't have any right to do what they want with their careers. Free Agency is there for a reason, so you think having FA is bad for the league, too? If free agency goes, then the NBA loses alot of fans. Reality.

3) This a totally different discussion, but it relates to my second point. While you have many here that side with you that having too many teams with multiple stars is bad for the league, that notion is wrong and TV ratings as well national viewership says so. There were no complaints about "parity" when the Lakers won their back-to-back titles, or when the Bulls were running a muck, or when the Celtics-Lakers were in the Finals year after year. It was only until after a certain someone decided that where he was didn't provide the best career opportunities, and decided to leave when we started hearing about "parity". Now the owners are using that rubbish as an excuse to mask what they're really after. Power. That's all they want. They're greedy, self-righteuos, and quite clueless as to why the NBA is in this mess in the first place. The NBA is star league, and it's been that way for the longest time and yet people still sit their *** on the couch and watch. If owners want their stars to stay, put a good team around him. That's it.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:40 PM
every time each of us goes to work, if not for ourselves we are being ruled by the entity that we work for. This is what being an employee is. likewise in our lives we have to follow orders,& so do they. They have a means to negotiate their compensation for their duties & they are doing that now. If there is something wrong with this then there is something wrong with the labour structure in general.
That's true, but this is professional sports. This is a business on a whole new level. Comparing it to anything else is kinda pointless if you ask me. Sorry.

LOOTERX9
10-26-2011, 03:42 PM
Rose is Greedy. It's pretty simple.

rapjuicer06
10-26-2011, 03:50 PM
That's true, but this is professional sports. This is a business on a whole new level. Comparing it to anything else is pointless. Sorry.

Still a business. You don't tell your "Boss" what to do. If it weren't for the owners, the players wouldn't be getting paid. So, all in all, it's the same in that aspect. The players are the product, yes. But it's the owners that put that product together by paying them. I really don't understand how anyone can really argue against that. At the end of the day, the players play (work) while the owners pay them to do so.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Still a business. You don't tell your "Boss" what to do. If it weren't for the owners, the players wouldn't be getting paid. So, all in all, it's the same in that aspect. The players are the product, yes. But it's the owners that put that product together by paying them. I really don't understand how anyone can really argue against that. At the end of the day, the players play (work) while the owners pay them to do so.
Unless you're talking about trades in the NBA, I'm not buying the first sentence. I understand the concept to what you're saying, since it's real life, but the players make the NBA. You serve the span of your contract, you're free to leave. The owners at that point cannot stop you from doing what you want to do with the rest of your career(remember we're sticking to professional sports, nothing else). If they really wanted the best for the league, they wouldn't be doing this crap. Not difficult to understand. That's my real point.

hgtiger32
10-26-2011, 03:57 PM
The more I think about it the more I think that no salary cap in the NBA would be pretty interesting.

SteBO
10-26-2011, 04:01 PM
If I sound like I'm underselling the owners here, I apologize. But these players are allowing them to pay the players what need to get paid. That's how the NBA works, and I think some of you in here aren't grasping that.

Southsideheat
10-26-2011, 04:03 PM
God the dumb people on this board. He was obviously asked if there should be a cap and he answered the way every player in the nba would have. He didn't just come out and say it and hope people heard it. What's wrong with you people?

ink
10-26-2011, 04:07 PM
My quick response ...


:sigh: Okay, here's my issue with that line of thinking....

1) The players are the product, therefore without them, the NBA would be nothing. The owners fail to come to grips with this, hence the lockout. Nobody on this site and around the world cares about the owners sitting in their offices doing what they do. Sorry, they don't. We, as fans, pay our hard-earned dollars to watch the players play a sport at a high level (in this case, an orange ball going through a hoop)

The team is the product, and it's produced by the franchise. The athletes are part of that team, part of the product.


2) These players are human beings. Not objects. To restrict what these players do and restrict where these players go is wrong. Period. What you've essentially told me to this point during our pleasant and productive back and forth, is that these players shouldn't have any say or shouldn't have any right to do what they want with their careers. Free Agency is there for a reason, so you think having FA is bad for the league, too? If free agency goes, then the NBA loses alot of fans. Reality.

They have more say than almost anyone, so they are not being treated inhumanely. They are grossly overpaid and have the right to collective bargaining. They may not like the way it's going but they still have that right. Free agency exists in every major sport and with the proper structure in place, it works pretty well. They're just looking for a structure where the stars don't completely control the league ... i.e. building super teams.


3) This a totally different discussion, but it relates to my second point. While you have many here that side with you that having too many teams with multiple stars is bad for the league, that notion is wrong and TV ratings as well national viewership says so. There were no complaints about "parity" when the Lakers won their back-to-back titles, or when the Bulls were running a muck, or when the Celtics-Lakers were in the Finals year after year. It was only until after a certain someone decided that where he was didn't provide the best career opportunities, and decided to leave when we started hearing about "parity". Now the owners are using that rubbish as an excuse to mask what they're really after. Power. That's all they want. They're greedy, self-righteuos, and quite clueless as to why the NBA is in this mess in the first place. The NBA is star league, and it's been that way for the longest time and yet people still sit their *** on the couch and watch. If owners want their stars to stay, put a good team around him. That's it.

The NBA is a basketball league first and foremost. I am sick of the star league approach and tired of listening to the endless soap operas about the stars. I am not really sure why people are so into gossip and soap operas when they could be into a sport. It didn't start with LBJ and I pointed out that Shaq's departure from Orlando was when things really started to fall apart free agency-wise. In fact, MJ leaving the Bulls, much like Wayne Gretzky leaving the Oilers for the Kings way back in the 80s, really did a lot to destroy each respective league. In both of those cases, it was a first. No one was really able to imagine a star of that magnitude leaving the club that they became famous with. So, no, I don't blame Lebron, he was just the most obnoxious and foolish about it all. But really close behind him would be Melo, Bosh, and all the others that now want to bail on their franchises (looking at you CP3 and DHoward!).

So the answer to one of your points here is that I was never a fan of Shaq's at all with the Lakers. And the Showtime Lakers (better by far IMO) and Larry Bird Celtics pretty much developed their own teams from within. Sure they dominated, but they dominated by building their own teams. They didn't talent hoard and stack through free agency.

NYKalltheway
10-26-2011, 04:22 PM
No salary cap is win-win for all parties. Owners, players and especially fans.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2011, 04:27 PM
I mean, he only said he wished there was no salary cap. Doesn't every player?

Now, of course there must be one, or we will get to see the same 4 teams good forever, with the occasional small team that hit it right for a few years. And then we will have what is going on with the World Series. 12 people that care.

Flexible salary cap is good for the NBA. No salary cap is not.

metswon69
10-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Why is this news?

I am sure if u poll 100% of the players, they are all against a salary cap...it's pretty self serving

If you have no salary cap, you'll have even less competition in a league that's already dominated by 5 or 6 teams (Dallas, Lakers, Chicago, Boston, Miami, Maybe New York when they get Paul)

Hawkeye15
10-26-2011, 04:28 PM
No salary cap is win-win for all parties. Owners, players and especially fans.

its a win-win for NY, LA, Chi, Mia, and Dallas fans. Its a lose-lose for everyone else.

metswon69
10-26-2011, 04:35 PM
With no salary cap, teams that have horrible ownership (LA Clippers, Sacramento etc etc) and horrible attendance are going to be buried year after year even worse than they are buried now.

Sactown
10-26-2011, 04:39 PM
No salary cap is win-win for all parties. Owners, players and especially fans.

:confused: If the kings have a salary of 42 million, and we still can't make money.. how is no cap at all going to help this? :eyebrow:

NYKalltheway
10-26-2011, 04:44 PM
It has to be expanded to FREE MARKET to be win-win... I think that's the next step after no cap that's why I put that together ;)

Hard cap = lose interest from general public
Soft cap = back to today... meh
no cap = what hawkeye said, but it can lead to free market and a normal transfer procedure which will generate great funds for small market teams

Shamar81
10-26-2011, 04:54 PM
:sigh: Okay, here's my issue with that line of thinking....

1) The players are the product, therefore without them, the NBA would be nothing. The owners fail to come to grips with this, hence the lockout. Nobody on this site and around the world cares about the owners sitting in their offices doing what they do. Sorry, they don't. We, as fans, pay our hard-earned dollars to watch the players play a sport at a high level (in this case, an orange ball going through a hoop)

2) These players are human beings. Not objects. To restrict what these players do and restrict where these players go is wrong. Period. What you've essentially told me to this point during our pleasant and productive back and forth, is that these players shouldn't have any say or shouldn't have any right to do what they want with their careers. Free Agency is there for a reason, so you think having FA is bad for the league, too? If free agency goes, then the NBA loses alot of fans. Reality.

3) This a totally different discussion, but it relates to my second point. While you have many here that side with you that having too many teams with multiple stars is bad for the league, that notion is wrong and TV ratings as well national viewership says so. There were no complaints about "parity" when the Lakers won their back-to-back titles, or when the Bulls were running a muck, or when the Celtics-Lakers were in the Finals year after year. It was only until after a certain someone decided that where he was didn't provide the best career opportunities, and decided to leave when we started hearing about "parity". Now the owners are using that rubbish as an excuse to mask what they're really after. Power. That's all they want. They're greedy, self-righteuos, and quite clueless as to why the NBA is in this mess in the first place. The NBA is star league, and it's been that way for the longest time and yet people still sit their *** on the couch and watch. If owners want their stars to stay, put a good team around him. That's it.

:clap:
I couldnt have said it better myself. People need to understand how much money these stars bring in to the league and their teams. We all watch the NBA and cheer for our teams. But the stars bring in the fans that dont have a team but just want to watch Leborn, Kobe or D wade. We have sites like this to talk about the stars on our team and whos the better player, or what player best goes with what team. There not alot of threads about owners are there? I wonder why. This has alwasy been a star driven league. It will continue to be a Star driven league because the star bring in the most revenue. This isnt football where you need the team to play as a whole to win. Allen Iverson played one against 5 back in the day and it was exciting and got his team to the finals. The Heat Play 3 against five and were 2 games away from winning a title. The system worked as is. Players should always get the the high end of the BRI

ink
10-26-2011, 04:58 PM
:clap:
I couldnt have said it better myself. People need to understand how much money these stars bring in to the league and their teams. We all watch the NBA and cheer for our teams. But the stars bring in the fans that dont have a team but just want to watch Leborn, Kobe or D wade. We have sites like this to talk about the stars on our team and whos the better player, or what player best goes with what team. There not alot of threads about owners are there? I wonder why. This has alwasy been a star driven league. It will continue to be a Star driven league because the star bring in the most revenue. This isnt football where you need the team to play as a whole to win. Allen Iverson played one against 5 back in the day and it was exciting and got his team to the finals. The Heat Play 3 against five and were 2 games away from winning a title. The system worked as is. Players should always get the the high end of the BRI

Then let them finance and run their own league of All Star basketball with max 6 teams.

Sactown
10-26-2011, 04:59 PM
It has to be expanded to FREE MARKET to be win-win... I think that's the next step after no cap that's why I put that together ;)

Hard cap = lose interest from general public
Soft cap = back to today... meh
no cap = what hawkeye said, but it can lead to free market and a normal transfer procedure which will generate great funds for small market teams

:confused: Doesn't the NFL have a hard cap? I don't think they're losing public interest

Sactown
10-26-2011, 04:59 PM
Then let them finance and run their own league of All Star basketball with max 6 teams.

I agree.. the problem is the players are trying to run the league...

dtmagnet
10-26-2011, 05:04 PM
Guy comes across sounding like a dumbass here.

PhillyFaninLA
10-26-2011, 05:06 PM
It has to be expanded to FREE MARKET to be win-win... I think that's the next step after no cap that's why I put that together ;)

Hard cap = lose interest from general public
Soft cap = back to today... meh
no cap = what hawkeye said, but it can lead to free market and a normal transfer procedure which will generate great funds for small market teams

Philosophically I am strongly opposed to a salary cap. I believe in a true free market and a chance to let people live and die with their successes and failures.

I am also someone that understand business, economics, and has a great deal of common sense (even if the message board hides that a lot of the time) and I want there to be an NBA in 10 years.

You are talking about owners that can't avoid stupidly spending their money and control there expenses with a soft cap. They are bankrupting the league now, if you get rid of a salary cap and don't fold the 2/3 of the franchises that are losing money then you are going to have no NBA. A hard cap and strong regimented financial spending constraints and proper revenue sharing is the only way we have an NBA long term.

Again I am strongly opposed the idea of a salary cap but I am a basketball fan and would like there to be an NBA down the road, getting rid of a salary cap in the NBA means the league will go bankrupt quicker.

tcav701
10-26-2011, 05:25 PM
and you wonder why this guy couldnt pass his SATs?

Southsideheat
10-26-2011, 05:31 PM
Guy comes across sounding like a dumbass here.

pot calling the kettle black?

Southsideheat
10-26-2011, 05:31 PM
and you wonder why this guy couldnt pass his SATs?

yes, more money in his pocket is really dumb :facepalm:

mjt20mik
10-26-2011, 05:44 PM
Here people with bachelor degrees from Colleges and Universities can barely find jobs paying 50000 per year, and these guys are saying they are not greedy while asking for multimillion dollar contracts. Yeah right. Some of these dudes can't even articulate their thoughts properly and they are being paid 100x more the average EDUCATED individual.

kingbrentg
10-26-2011, 05:45 PM
It's effecting him, why should he shut his mouth? :confused:

He didn't even say anything bad.


Why shouldn't he be allowed to speak his mind?

But it's Derrick Rose, guys... come on.

RekeHavoc
10-26-2011, 06:20 PM
How is this thread worthy? All superstars would love to eliminate a salary cap

how was the carmelo anthony wanting cp3 thread "thread worthy", who wouldn't want to play with an elite pg?

*shrugs*

dont hate the poster, hate the forum!

THE MTL
10-26-2011, 06:39 PM
Derrick Rose probably makes that Bulls organization at least 50 million per year by himself and vastly adds value to that franchise. He is severely underpaid. The NBA MVP earning 5.5 million per year is crazy especially when you got guys like Rashard Lewis making 20 million per year.

Its really the above average players that are screwing up the league. The asking price for those types are increasing exponentially.

bears88
10-26-2011, 06:58 PM
I don't get whats so wrong by what he said, he was just speaking whats on his mind. Its not his fault he is talented enough to play in the NBA. What he said wasn't that bad, but some people on here got to find something against Derrick Rose.

Confusious
10-26-2011, 07:07 PM
So many stupid ****ing people in this thread.

Tom Stone
10-26-2011, 07:17 PM
D Rose is an idiot......People should throw Tomatoes at him....like the village idiot.

Ezio
10-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Probably the fastest way to end the lockout :shrug:

RekeHavoc
10-26-2011, 07:27 PM
Derrick Rose probably makes that Bulls organization at least 50 million per year by himself and vastly adds value to that franchise. He is severely underpaid. The NBA MVP earning 5.5 million per year is crazy especially when you got guys like Rashard Lewis making 20 million per year.

Its really the above average players that are screwing up the league. The asking price for those types are increasing exponentially.

have you ever heard of a rookie contract?

this isnt the NFL, where players used to get 60 million dollar 5 yr contracts after getting drafted, even they realized that was wrong, and in their new cba, there is a scale

u think the NBA is going to do the reverse of that??:rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
10-26-2011, 07:28 PM
Philosophically I am strongly opposed to a salary cap. I believe in a true free market and a chance to let people live and die with their successes and failures.

I am also someone that understand business, economics, and has a great deal of common sense (even if the message board hides that a lot of the time) and I want there to be an NBA in 10 years.

You are talking about owners that can't avoid stupidly spending their money and control there expenses with a soft cap. They are bankrupting the league now, if you get rid of a salary cap and don't fold the 2/3 of the franchises that are losing money then you are going to have no NBA. A hard cap and strong regimented financial spending constraints and proper revenue sharing is the only way we have an NBA long term.

Again I am strongly opposed the idea of a salary cap but I am a basketball fan and would like there to be an NBA down the road, getting rid of a salary cap in the NBA means the league will go bankrupt quicker.


You explained my opinion to the tee dude. I understand the NBA is a business, and I too am all for free markets and few regulations in an economy. But like you said, I am also a basketball fan, and my team would be gone in 10 years if the current system continues.

Fans of the 5 major sports markets in the NBA don't want a salary cap. But the fans of the 22 teams losing money and the fans of the small market teams trying to rebuild and compete right now do want a salary cap. There has to be someway to help level the playing field.

Revenue sharing is a big one. Obviously there are owners like Glen Taylor who have shown they will spend if they can have a good team, and then their are owners like Donald Sterling who operate their team like Walmart, and refuses to lose money therefore his team doesn't put a good product out. It will never be perfect. But it has to be attractive to own an NBA team. And right now, it isn't. Not unless you are in a major market or have a team that is in a small market but is very good (San Antonio, OKC, bout it).

Hawkeye15
10-26-2011, 07:29 PM
Derrick Rose probably makes that Bulls organization at least 50 million per year by himself and vastly adds value to that franchise. He is severely underpaid. The NBA MVP earning 5.5 million per year is crazy especially when you got guys like Rashard Lewis making 20 million per year.

Its really the above average players that are screwing up the league. The asking price for those types are increasing exponentially.

Rose is still on his rookie deal man. In fact, rookie deals need to be less imo.

Ezio
10-26-2011, 07:33 PM
Rose is still on his rookie deal man. In fact, rookie deals need to be less imo.

Very true. But it's usually the lottery picks that get paid.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2011, 07:36 PM
Very true. But it's usually the lottery picks that get paid.

Rose is set to make $7 million this year, and $9 million next year. He is being compensated just fine at the moment. He will get paid next summer in a longterm extension. I would guess whatever the max is for his tenure.

effen5
10-27-2011, 02:23 PM
Rose is set to make $7 million this year, and $9 million next year. He is being compensated just fine at the moment. He will get paid next summer in a longterm extension. I would guess whatever the max is for his tenure.

This reminds me of the whole Matt Forte contract debacle. If Rose outplays his contract (which he clearly has and deserves a max contract right now) why shouldn't he get it?

But I also agree that the rookie scale should also be a lot lower but if you outplay your current contract (Rose, Blake), they should be able to restructure it and lock them up.

HuRRiCaNeS324
10-27-2011, 02:25 PM
Derrick Rose knows what a salary cap is? Impressive...

Hawkeye15
10-27-2011, 02:25 PM
This reminds me of the whole Matt Forte contract debacle. If Rose outplays his contract (which he clearly has and deserves a max contract right now) why shouldn't he get it?

But I also agree that the rookie scale should also be a lot lower but if you outplay your current contract (Rose, Blake), they should be able to restructure it and lock them up.

well, that is why they have team options. If they wanted to, they could just not exercise Rose's last year, and then resign him the moment the lockout is up, so he would get whatever max his tenure presents starting next season. But they won't do that, and Rose won't bother with it. He will get paid $9 million next season, and it will also allow them to try and sign a SG like Jason Richardson or someone of that caliber for cheap, instead of hamstringing them so quickly.

northsider
10-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Derrick Rose knows what a salary cap is? Impressive...

A Heat fan taking a shot? Original......

smith&wesson
10-27-2011, 07:42 PM
rose knows someones joining the bulls next season, i wonder who it is.