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View Full Version : Advice to NBA players from former NHL'er Bill Guerin (on lockout)



GodsSon
10-26-2011, 01:30 AM
"It's not worth it. Get a deal done," former Dallas Stars forward Bill Guerin said during a phone call last week.

There was not a single NHL player during the Great Lockout of 2004-05 who was a bigger proponent of the union's fight than this man. No one believed in the cause more than Guerin, and to hear him admit this is a bit stunning.

"I learned a big lesson: It's not a partnership," Guerin said. "It's their league, and you are going to play when they want."


When reflecting on the NHL lockout that wiped out the entire 2004-05 season, Guerin sounds like a man who had reality shoved down his throat. There is no bitterness in his voice, just truths, which aren't necessarily positive. The truth is Guerin, or any player, really isn't in charge as long as those who are cutting the cheques are unified. If it doesn't sound that much different than your job, it's because it's not.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Veteran+conflict+warns+owners+have+more+power+than +seems/5601985/story.html

This just reiterated what a lot of us are already thinking. At some point in time, the players WILL cave, and when they do, they're going to get a deal that's much worse then what is currently being offered.

Anilyzer
10-26-2011, 02:05 AM
Loser

GodsSon
10-26-2011, 02:09 AM
Loser

Great input :clap:

ink
10-26-2011, 02:17 AM
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Veteran+conflict+warns+owners+have+more+power+than +seems/5601985/story.html

This just reiterated what a lot of us are already thinking. At some point in time, the players WILL cave, and when they do, they're going to get a deal that's much worse then what is currently being offered.

100% true. And the NHL players had to go through EXACTLY the same process. They had basically won the CBA negotiations of the mid 90s and the league warned them that the 2004-05 lockout was going to be about restoring sanity in the league. Same as we're seeing in the NBA lockout now. The players thought they could hold their ground but the longer they waited the more ground they lost. The fact is that it IS the owners league, like it or not. The sooner they realize it's not a partnership, the sooner this thing gets done.

GodsSon
10-26-2011, 02:33 AM
100% true. And the NHL players had to go through EXACTLY the same process. They had basically won the CBA negotiations of the mid 90s and the league warned them that the 2004-05 lockout was going to be about restoring sanity in the league. Same as we're seeing in the NBA lockout now. The players thought they could hold their ground but the longer they waited the more ground they lost. The fact is that it IS the owners league, like it or not. The sooner they realize it's not a partnership, the sooner this thing gets done.

The players will end up learning the hard way.

When it's all said and done, look for Billy Hunter to step down from his position the same way Goodenow did in the NHL due to making too many concessions to the owners after losing 1 full year.

The only other choice the players have is to de-certify the union, and there's no way in hell that's going to happen.

Anilyzer
10-26-2011, 03:01 AM
Here's a couple quick points:

1. No WAY will the league allow this to go to arbitration. Players like Lebron and Dwight are being paid appx 1/2 of their value on the open market.

2. Players are currently suing the league through their complaint with the NPLRB

3. Pending the outcome of that, players can also decertify the union, at which point they can go directly head on with the league regarding their (numerous anti-trust) issues. Remember, the players union made concessions to the league in not challenging the league's monopoly conditions. If the owners just go completely bat**** on them, the whole mess goes to court.

4. David Stern is really on the side of the big market teams. He's in the position of John Boehner, having to go along with all the crazy Tea Party stuff, to give the illusion of a unified front.

The NHL players caved at the wrong time; if you're gonna fight, you don't give up when somebody is on you and pounding on you. If they knew they would do that, they should never have gotten in that fight. Also, the NHL commissioner and owners were willing to settle for a far more modest vision of their league than the NBA has.

Hockey? Are you kidding me? 10 years ago Hockey was blowing up. Now it's almost invisible, even with dudes like Jim Rome totally pimping it. Hockey destroyed itself in the USA.

If the NBA owners want to do that, sign a contract with the Home Shopping Network or Oxygen or whatever... fine. DO IT. It would be interesting enough just to see them do that I wouldn't mind.

But I'm telling you, it won't. Owners cave by November. Mark it in your calendar.

shep33
10-26-2011, 03:04 AM
This is the point some of us, including myself have been arguing. No matter who is in the right or wrong, the players have absolutely zero leverage in this situation.

Anilyzer
10-26-2011, 03:05 AM
anyways, how do YOU like your NBA heroes?

Cocky, rich, strong and independent?

Or broken-spirited, on a leash, locked into teams they hate, submissive and weak?

Break the players, and you break the league... and we're fast entering an era where we don't even need "leagues" like the NBA anymore. They're trying to hold a monopoly in a world where the ice is melting under their feet.

The only ones in the league who have any value are

1. The players, especially the great players

2. The famous teams with great traditions

Everything else could be replaced pretty easy.

ink
10-26-2011, 03:07 AM
Here's a couple quick points:

1. No WAY will the league allow this to go to arbitration. Players like Lebron and Dwight are being paid appx 1/2 of their value on the open market.

2. Players are currently suing the league through their complaint with the NPLRB

3. Pending the outcome of that, players can also decertify the union, at which point they can go directly head on with the league regarding their (numerous anti-trust) issues. Remember, the players union made concessions to the league in not challenging the league's monopoly conditions. If the owners just go completely bat**** on them, the whole mess goes to court.

4. David Stern is really on the side of the big market teams. He's in the position of John Boehner, having to go along with all the crazy Tea Party stuff, to give the illusion of a unified front.

The NHL players caved at the wrong time; if you're gonna fight, you don't give up when somebody is on you and pounding on you. If they knew they would do that, they should never have gotten in that fight. Also, the NHL commissioner and owners were willing to settle for a far more modest vision of their league than the NBA has.

Hockey? Are you kidding me? 10 years ago Hockey was blowing up. Now it's almost invisible, even with dudes like Jim Rome totally pimping it. Hockey destroyed itself in the USA.

If the NBA owners want to do that, sign a contract with the Home Shopping Network or Oxygen or whatever... fine. DO IT. It would be interesting enough just to see them do that I wouldn't mind.

But I'm telling you, it won't. Owners cave by November. Mark it in your calendar.

Lots of debatable opinion there, not much of it to do with the comment by Guerin.

ink
10-26-2011, 03:11 AM
anyways, how do YOU like your NBA heroes?

Cocky, rich, strong and independent?

Or broken-spirited, on a leash, locked into teams they hate, submissive and weak?

Neither.


Break the players, and you break the league.

It won't be anything nearly as melodramatic as that.

Anilyzer
10-26-2011, 04:01 AM
Neither.



It won't be anything nearly as melodramatic as that.


The owners are the melodramatic ones. *sheesh*. Gilbert's outbursts after Lebron left were laughable.

Anyways, November.

Or... or we can just forget about the NBA as we know it. Welcome to "NBA Live on the Travel Channel", where every team has the same payroll as the Clippers and the Hornets, all revenue is shared amongst all the teams, and every team has a 50/50 shot to win every game and a 1/30 shot to win the title because none of them are very good.