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View Full Version : D. Howard is 6th best on Slam's list



Duddy
10-23-2011, 12:28 PM
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamonline-top-50/2011/10/top-50-dwight-howard-no-6/

With Lebron, wade, KD, Rose and Kobe still to go. The guy is arguably a top 2 player. Opinions?

Sly Guy
10-23-2011, 12:31 PM
he's #1 IMO. No one in the game changes an entire team's gameplan like Dwight. No disrespect to any of the other guys, but Dwight changes the game more than any of those others on that list.

ManRam
10-23-2011, 12:34 PM
I have him as #2. His o

Whatever. People can have their opinions. I'll take the most dominating and game-changing defender (literally has turned a squad with 4 average/below average defenders on it into a perennial top 3-5 defense...amazing) and who can score as inefficiency, and consistently, as any big man in the game (includes Dirk, Amare, Aldridge etc.)


No player has as big of an impact on either side of the ball as he has defensively. And now, there's little to bash offensively.

tcav701
10-23-2011, 12:38 PM
So Dirk, CP3 and Dwight off the board and Rose,Kobe and KD in the top 5?

Pretty supsect list...

Avenged
10-23-2011, 12:44 PM
he's #1 IMO. No one in the game changes an entire team's gameplan like Dwight. No disrespect to any of the other guys, but Dwight changes the game more than any of those others on that list.

Same. He's very dominant defensively, and for a player who has the rep to be "limited" offensively, he still manages to put up 22 ppg on a TS% of 61. Pretty damn impressive.

John Walls Era
10-23-2011, 12:50 PM
A list is 1 person's opinion. Hes arguably 6th best and anyone can make a case for all the guys ahead of him.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 01:11 PM
I swear these top 50 lists just keep getting worst and worst. It's as if the Bleacher Report writers are spreading across all media outlets. For as much as I chastised the SI list in hindsight their's is looking the best of the lot.

I mean seriously Kevin Garnett at 37? KG has a strong case for top 15. That list is atrocious. I wouldn't read anything into Howard being #6. He's #2 right now.

Hellcrooner
10-23-2011, 01:15 PM
is still worst than espns.

Avenged
10-23-2011, 01:36 PM
I swear these top 50 lists just keep getting worst and worst. It's as if the Bleacher Report writers are spreading across all media outlets. For as much as I chastised the SI list in hindsight their's is looking the best of the lot.

I mean seriously Kevin Garnett at 37? KG has a strong case for top 15. That list is atrocious. I wouldn't read anything into Howard being #6. He's #2 right now.

KG top 15? How so?

I mean depending on who you have outside the top 10, but I think Melo, Amare, Manu, Westbrook, Love, Aldridge, Nash, Pierce, Rondo are better than him now imo.

Hawkeye15
10-23-2011, 01:36 PM
Another example of why I really don't take SLAM seriously.

Dwight is at worst, #3 on any knowledgeable fans list.

Tony_Starks
10-23-2011, 01:45 PM
Very suspect list. John Wall is way too high. Westbrook and Rondo over Nash? Never. It seems like its based strictly on popularity not skill......

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 02:05 PM
KG top 15? How so?

I mean depending on who you have outside the top 10, but I think Melo, Amare, Manu, Westbrook, Love, Aldridge, Nash, Pierce, Rondo are better than him now imo.

Statistically and overall impact on D and all aspects of the game outside of scoring. Now I'm not saying that KG is in my top 15 personally but if you look at it from a statistical standpoint and take intangible worth into consideration you can make a serious case for him being top 15.

Sportfan
10-23-2011, 02:07 PM
he's 4th imo. dwight is overrated on psd.

heyman321
10-23-2011, 02:44 PM
Statistically and overall impact on D and all aspects of the game outside of scoring. Now I'm not saying that KG is in my top 15 personally but if you look at it from a statistical standpoint and take intangible worth into consideration you can make a serious case for him being top 15.

No you can't. He's still serviceable but in no way top 15 anymore. Come on. It's like how Tim Duncan is still rated too high sometimes because of these lifetime achievement awards.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 02:52 PM
No you can't. He's still serviceable but in no way top 15 anymore. Come on. It's like how Tim Duncan is still rated too high sometimes because of these lifetime achievement awards.

Would you like me to back my claim? His D is still elite and he's still the best all round big man (not just PF) in the league. As I will reiterate I don't have him in my top 15 because he doesn't log major minutes again but when he's on the floor he is an elite player.

ManRam
10-23-2011, 02:55 PM
he's 4th imo. dwight is overrated on psd.

How so? What about his game is overrated?

JasonJohnHorn
10-23-2011, 03:08 PM
They have him listed as a center for the Hornets? Do they know something we don't?

If you want to talk skill level, I'd agree with their ranking. The other guys are more skilled than he is. They are all better shooters, better ball handlers, better passers, and mid-range players, better facing-the-basket players, and in some cases, frankly speaking, better back-to-the-basket players.

That said, if I had to build a team around any one player in the league, my first pick would be Dwight Howard, because even though he is not as skilled as some other guys, the impact he brings is larger. The league is weak at center, and he's the best one we got right now, so he would be my first pick if the entire league was thrown into the draft.

heyman321
10-23-2011, 03:19 PM
Would you like me to back my claim? His D is still elite and he's still the best all round big man (not just PF) in the league. As I will reiterate I don't have him in my top 15 because he doesn't log major minutes again but when he's on the floor he is an elite player.

Yes please, throw those advanced stats at me brotha.

gilly
10-23-2011, 03:21 PM
Very suspect list. John Wall is way too high. Westbrook and Rondo over Nash? Never. It seems like its based strictly on popularity not skill......


Westbrook and Rondo over Nash in popularity? C'mon son.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 03:32 PM
Yes please, throw those advanced stats at me brotha.

I don't even have to use advance stats in all honesty. Just need to apply context. Name 5 better leaders than Kevin Garnett. Now name 5 better defensive players. Name 5 better all round players. KG is right up there with the best of them.

Garnett last season was a game changer on D and despite not being much of a scorer anymore was still one of the most impactful players in all of basketball.

I don't need stats.

Duddy
10-23-2011, 03:47 PM
I don't even have to use advance stats in all honesty. Just need to apply context. Name 5 better leaders than Kevin Garnett. Now name 5 better defensive players. Name 5 better all round players. KG is right up there with the best of them.

Garnett last season was a game changer on D and despite not being much of a scorer anymore was still one of the most impactful players in all of basketball.

I don't need stats.

The guy is not even the leader of his team, nor he is the best all-around player. KG as a top 30 player... Maybe. KG as a top 15... Hell No!

naps
10-23-2011, 04:33 PM
he's 4th imo. dwight is overrated on psd.

I am big Dwight Howard fan but I have no doubt about that bolded line (by some fans). In my book Dwight and CP3 are #3 and #4 (any order) though.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 05:00 PM
The guy is not even the leader of his team, nor he is the best all-around player. KG as a top 30 player... Maybe. KG as a top 15... Hell No!

Interesting because before the arrival of KG Paul Pierce was never viewed as a plus defensive player. If you think Paul Pierce is the better all round player or leader of that team you don't watch any Celtics games.

Ebbs
10-23-2011, 05:00 PM
Slams list is crap

Duddy
10-23-2011, 05:16 PM
Interesting because before the arrival of KG Paul Pierce was never viewed as a plus defensive player. If you think Paul Pierce is the better all round player or leader of that team you don't watch any Celtics games.

I've never said that Pierce was the better defender, he is simply the most all-around player on that team. KG might be their defensive anchor, but Pierce is their offensive and overall leader. Only if it was 7 years ago...

Burkey3472
10-23-2011, 05:31 PM
I'd have him either at 2 or 3.

tredigs
10-23-2011, 05:37 PM
I've never said that Pierce was the better defender, he is simply the most all-around player on that team. KG might be their defensive anchor, but Pierce is their offensive and overall leader. Only if it was 7 years ago...

7 years ago? Huh?

You can definitely argue that KG was still the overall leader on Boston last season (this was unquestionable in 08 with his absurd competitiveness in giving that defense - and the squad in general - a facelift that vaulted them into an elite two-way championship caliber franchise). He's still a double double machine with great passing ability that anchors their team defense every night. He makes teams better - much, much better.

Statistically - 82 games has him as the teams most effective producer, followed by Pierce>Allen>Rondo. http://www.82games.com/1011/1011BOS.HTM

He was within 7 thousands of the team lead in WinShares per 48 and was the teams leader in PER. He's still an incredibly effective/vital piece to their success. I would argue he still is their most important piece.

Perfect example of what I still see lacking in D. Howard is everything that a KG or TD embodies. Intelligent defense (blocks that result in more baskets for Orlando would be nice to see), tenacity, a short-mid range game and having the capability to pass from the post to name a few...

Dwight's definitely an amazing talent, but he still leaves A LOT to be desired from me in the bball IQ section (vision/smarter D/stupid fouls being three of his major issues). His production is undeniable, but he'd be a much stronger player as a #2/Defensive monster. Cp3, Wade or Lebron would be ideal for a guy like him. And I do rate them all higher than Howard.

LA_Raiders
10-23-2011, 07:26 PM
No way, He is #2...

Kobe
Dwight
Wade
CP3
KD

knightstemplar
10-23-2011, 09:48 PM
I swear these top 50 lists just keep getting worst and worst. It's as if the Bleacher Report writers are spreading across all media outlets. For as much as I chastised the SI list in hindsight their's is looking the best of the lot.

I mean seriously Kevin Garnett at 37? KG has a strong case for top 15. That list is atrocious. I wouldn't read anything into Howard being #6. He's #2 right now.

worse

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 09:51 PM
Oh well we've seen now that PinnacleFlash/BigDiesel32/Soxsnation4life/RealistRocket34 and whoever else he's pretending to be has returned and now under the name TheAdmiral3.

I hope the Mods get wind of this and bans him again ASAP.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 09:52 PM
worse

Thanks. Though I spelled it that way intentionally to prove how horrendous they are IMO. I'll gladly take the correction.

Swashcuff
10-23-2011, 10:05 PM
I've never said that Pierce was the better defender,

And the point I was making is that without Kevin Garnett his D would not be as good as it is perceived and would not be seen as nearly as good a defender. Thus making him a less rounded player.


he is simply the most all-around player on that team.

No he isn't. Best statistical indicator or a player's all round worth is PER Kevin Garnett led the Celts with a 20.6 PER while Pierce came 2nd behind him with 19.7. That doesn't take into consideration KGs impact on the team's D and his overall intangible worth.


KG might be their defensive anchor, but Pierce is their offensive and overall leader. Only if it was 7 years ago...

I honestly don't know where to go with this. 7 years ago? Seriously? You must not know much about KG. Here what to do ask anyone with a comprehensive understanding of the Boston Celtics and ask who's their team leader.

tredigs also addressed other issues already so I won't bother repeating what he said.

One more thing I'd like to add to what tre said however was their respective WS/48. Something which benefited greatly from DWS. Something that Kevin Garnett impacted more than any other player on that team as a matter of a fact KG's defensive impact was probably greater than that of the entire Boston Celtics team combined. Had KG not anchored his team's D Pierce would not have had so many DWS and well no way he'd have a such a great WS/48.

Raph12
10-24-2011, 12:49 AM
He's easily Top 2 and arguably the best player in the league in terms of impact on a game... Bad list.

Hawkeye15
10-24-2011, 12:54 AM
No way, He is #2...

Kobe
Dwight
Wade
CP3
KD

Kobe #1, and no LeBron. Your list is terrible.

naps
10-24-2011, 01:33 AM
Oh well we've seen now that PinnacleFlash/BigDiesel32/Soxsnation4life/RealistRocket34 and whoever else he's pretending to be has returned and now under the name TheAdmiral3.

I hope the Mods get wind of this and bans him again ASAP.

LOL. I concurred 100%.

JordansBulls
10-24-2011, 10:26 AM
I swear these top 50 lists just keep getting worst and worst. It's as if the Bleacher Report writers are spreading across all media outlets. For as much as I chastised the SI list in hindsight their's is looking the best of the lot.

I mean seriously Kevin Garnett at 37? KG has a strong case for top 15. That list is atrocious. I wouldn't read anything into Howard being #6. He's #2 right now.

KG has no case for top 15 anymore.

dwadefan03
10-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Dwight is super overrated on psd...hes at best #3 behind lebron and wade

Duddy
10-24-2011, 12:35 PM
And the 5th best player on the league is... Dwyane Wade. Lol, this list is almost no joke. What next? Lebron #4?

JordansBulls
10-24-2011, 12:42 PM
Dwight is super overrated on psd...hes at best #3 behind lebron and wade

How could a team have the best two players in the league and lose with HCA?

Swashcuff
10-24-2011, 12:54 PM
KG has no case for top 15 anymore.

JB you very well know that from an advanced statistical POV and especially in terms of impact and leadership he has a case for the top 15.

ecorrea
10-24-2011, 01:05 PM
i think wade should be ahead of drose.

dwight is being overrated, he should be behind lebron, wade, kobe, and maybe KD/Rose

JB you have a good point with having the 2 "best" players being ranked 1/2 if they cant win with the HC + Bosh...

Sactown
10-24-2011, 02:24 PM
No way, He is #2...

Lebron
Dwight
Wade
CP3
KD

I agree!

Cano4prez
10-24-2011, 02:29 PM
Terrible list

ewmania
10-24-2011, 03:49 PM
smh overrated

didnt' dwight shoot 75% in a stretch last season

dude is far from overrated and in my opinion was MVP of 2011, and the #1 player in the league

ewmania
10-24-2011, 03:50 PM
Dwight is super overrated on psd...hes at best #3 behind lebron and wade

haha wade? your joking right

oh never mind I see your sig

VinceCarter
10-24-2011, 04:22 PM
How could a team have the best two players in the league and lose with HCA?

:clap:

God, I hope Dwight will be a Net :pray:

Avenged
10-24-2011, 04:56 PM
Statistically and overall impact on D and all aspects of the game outside of scoring. Now I'm not saying that KG is in my top 15 personally but if you look at it from a statistical standpoint and take intangible worth into consideration you can make a serious case for him being top 15.

I get that, but I do think he doesn't really have as much pressure on him anymore which is why he's solidly efficient. Rajon Rondo has really carried the Celtics, and whether it be the system or players around him, he really proved his leadership on that team. I mean, KG himself always praises Rondo for that.

I do think if KG was able to withstand some more PT then I would rank him higher. He's somewhat sort of like Manu now. Great player but he won't rank higher because he can't do it night in and night out for long periods of time.

naps
10-24-2011, 10:25 PM
What a terrible list. Wade #5 and Dwight #6.

Only player better than Wade I can think of is LeBron.