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OGMarkWahlberg
10-20-2011, 09:40 PM
Let's say this does go through, who do you cut off of your team and why?
Feel free to list other teams as well

Cal827
10-20-2011, 09:56 PM
Raptors: One of Calderon, Bargnani or Kleiza.

Kleiza cause he's a bad contract, but since we just drafted Jonas, he might be able to help a fellow Lithuanian.

Calderon: Worked very hard for the Raptors, deserves to go help a winning team. Imagine if he ends up with Miami. He'd average like 20 assists per game lol.

Bargnani: Big contract, not great player but would get us win... would rather let Davis get his minutes and allow the younger players to try to mesh and build with the likely high picks coming our way in the next year or two.

Sadds The Gr8
10-20-2011, 09:57 PM
this thread was made like 2 weeks ago

OGMarkWahlberg
10-20-2011, 09:59 PM
this thread was made like 2 weeks ago

haha really? my bad never saw it .. mods you can merge this into that thread then

PhillyFaninLA
10-20-2011, 10:33 PM
Sixers:

Many fans will say Brand but I say Hawes or noone. Hawes I'd keep though. I wouldn't cut Brand for 2 reasons, he is a nice veteran presence on a young team and last year when healthy was playing pretty well, not like he did a few years ago, but his leadership and solid play when healthy is a good thing, he also only has one or two years left.

Dade County
10-21-2011, 12:33 AM
Is this Amnesty Clause a one time thing, or can teams do this crap every year?

McPeak92
10-21-2011, 12:36 AM
Sixers:

Many fans will say Brand but I say Hawes or noone. Hawes I'd keep though. I wouldn't cut Brand for 2 reasons, he is a nice veteran presence on a young team and last year when healthy was playing pretty well, not like he did a few years ago, but his leadership and solid play when healthy is a good thing, he also only has one or two years left.

Hawes is a Free Agent. It'll be Brand, Noci, or my dark horse pick...Mo Speights.

SportsFanatic10
10-21-2011, 04:46 AM
as a heat fan this would be perfect. there will definately be some decent veteran talent that would love to go to miami on the cheap for a title run! to answer the thread question miami might consider mike miller for this but i kinda doubt it and hope not.

Sly Guy
10-21-2011, 09:49 AM
The Raptors:

undoubtedly Kleiza. We're in no position to make a run in the playoffs yet, so we're lottery bound next year as well. With next year's draft being loaded with 3's, getting rid of him frees up some minutes at that spot for whoever comes in, and it gives James Johnson a shot at development and a chance to prove we don't need to draft at his position either.

As for Cal's comments about Jose and Andrea, Jose's only got a year left on a bloated contract, so he will have value next season for cap space. Andrea isn't overpayed at $10mil/season being the one-way offensive player he is, so he's more likely to net a reasonable return in a trade if we want to clear minutes for Amir/Davis to develop. Unfortunately, neither Davis or Amir are big for their position so we still need Barg's size until Jonas is ready to come over.

ManRam
10-21-2011, 09:52 AM
As a small market team fan, there are a lot of things I hope the NBA Owners "win" out on. And this is one...

Gilbert Arenas. Nothing else needs to be said. I know a few people for some reason, like JB, think Gil is still good or something (despite not showing anything for like 4 years now). Unless he really improves his body and health this off-season, he's not a good play.

nycericanguy
10-21-2011, 10:21 AM
As a small market team fan, there are a lot of things I hope the NBA Owners "win" out on. And this is one...

Gilbert Arenas. Nothing else needs to be said. I know a few people for some reason, like JB, think Gil is still good or something (despite not showing anything for like 4 years now). Unless he really improves his body and health this off-season, he's not a good play.

The Arenas contract was a horrible deal the minute he signed it. I blame the owners for that one.

But there are some deals that look good or ok at the time that really can come back to haunt a franchise. Take Eddy Curry, it turned out to be one of the worst deals in the NBA, but when NY signed him he was a 23 year old mobile center coming off a very solid season. He had franchise center potential so paying him $10m over 5 seasons sounded like a great deal.

Jerome Jordan on the other hand was a horrible signing from the getgo for NY.

king4day
10-21-2011, 10:32 AM
Is this Amnesty Clause a one time thing, or can teams do this crap every year?

If it's like the last one, it'd probably just be the one year, but I'm starting to think it might be a good idea for teams, every 2 or 3 years, to be allowed to axe a bad contract. The penalty would be having to still pay their entire contract but at least they have the cap room.

On topic, I think the Suns need to eat Childress' contract. It's just too long and he's not going to help us win in the short or long run.
If not him, than dump Warrick. He makes more sense financially but he could be trade bait in about 2 years.

King Koopa
10-21-2011, 10:35 AM
as a heat fan this would be perfect. there will definately be some decent veteran talent that would love to go to miami on the cheap for a title run! to answer the thread question miami might consider mike miller for this but i kinda doubt it and hope not.

As a HEAT fan? Are you serious? I've never seen you post on the HEAT forum...

Ezio
10-21-2011, 10:41 AM
Bulls fans will say Boozer but that would do no good. I think the Bulls will not use it next year. Maybe a bench player to sign a SG.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
Bulls fans will say Boozer but that would do no good. I think the Bulls will not use it next year. Maybe a bench player to sign a SG.

We'll be picking up the best SG dropped due to this clause.

Another thing for others to keep in mind, I saw Abe post this in the Bulls forum, is that teams cannot resign the player cut under the amnesty clause. So the Hawks can't cut Joe Johnson but then re-sign him for less.

Fnom11
10-21-2011, 05:18 PM
All I know is this will only make good teams better(Heat Bulls Mavs maybe Lakers)

SportsFanatic10
10-21-2011, 05:31 PM
As a HEAT fan? Are you serious? I've never seen you post on the HEAT forum...

you're not very bright are you? lol are YOU serious? i didn't know posts in a psd heat forum determined how much of a fan you are. i prefer to read the heat.com forums and only average 1.4 posts per day here on psd. i've been a heat fan since 02...get a life outside of psd.

oh and any "heat" fan that has only lebron in his sig and avatar is probably a lebron bandwagoner and not really a true miami heat fan. most heat fans like wade more unless they just followed lebron from cleveland. see i can judge too lol.

King Koopa
10-22-2011, 09:30 AM
you're not very bright are you? lol are YOU serious? i didn't know posts in a psd heat forum determined how much of a fan you are. i prefer to read the heat.com forums and only average 1.4 posts per day here on psd. i've been a heat fan since 02...get a life outside of psd.

oh and any "heat" fan that has only lebron in his sig and avatar is probably a lebron bandwagoner and not really a true miami heat fan. most heat fans like wade more unless they just followed lebron from cleveland. see i can judge too lol.

Lmao grammar errors much? And yes it does determine how much of a fan you're because it's where every individual team news goes to, their forum and you've never posted there.

What does the 1.4 posts per day mean? Nothing I avg like 2 post per day and I've been a Heat fan since before 2002 dork, so seriously get over yourself.

And I have a Lebron sig and Avatar because he plays for the HEAT... Yet you're rocking on a Falcons Avatar lol. Where is your Wade avatar Mr. Stereotype? :rolleyes:

tev_dodd
10-22-2011, 10:48 AM
T-Wolves....Darko.

Mishmin
10-22-2011, 11:08 AM
Raptors: One of Calderon, Bargnani or Kleiza.

Kleiza cause he's a bad contract, but since we just drafted Jonas, he might be able to help a fellow Lithuanian.

Calderon: Worked very hard for the Raptors, deserves to go help a winning team. Imagine if he ends up with Miami. He'd average like 20 assists per game lol.

Bargnani: Big contract, not great player but would get us win... would rather let Davis get his minutes and allow the younger players to try to mesh and build with the likely high picks coming our way in the next year or two.

Agreed. In fact whenever the heat comes up in conversation with friends, thats always the first thing I say. Somehow get Calderon to start at pg in miami, that pushes them over the top for the ring.

daleja424
10-22-2011, 12:09 PM
It depends on the rules.

If it is a true amnesty cut and no money counts towards future seasons, HEAT should cut Mike Miller.

I have heard however that it will be a 75% cut, and that 25% will still count towards the future cap...in which case it isn't worth it to cut Mike Miller and so the HEAT will probably cut no one.

daleja424
10-22-2011, 12:11 PM
Ya, I find it funny that the small markets owners want this...

How can you complain about competitive balance and then ask to release talented guys, freeing them up to join contenders at the min.

This is one of those instances where bottom line and competitive balance are clearly at odds...and there is no way around that.

NYman15
10-22-2011, 12:15 PM
A lot of the big market teams that are on top will probably benefit from this. The Knicks really don't have any big contracts to cut, they'll probably cut Balkman as he is owed a little money next year that cuts into their 2012 cap space, but they'll be looking to pick up some of these guys that are cut, but are still getting paid and so some of them might want to play for a contender and take a little less money and if a guy like Brendan Haywood gets cut, they'll definitely be looking at him. He's a center who can rebound and defend and he'd be perfect for them. Look for teams like the Knicks, Heat, Bulls, Lakers, Celtics among others looking to pick up some of these guys.

Cal827
10-22-2011, 03:18 PM
Agreed. In fact whenever the heat comes up in conversation with friends, thats always the first thing I say. Somehow get Calderon to start at pg in miami, that pushes them over the top for the ring.

Definitely. I watched him really help some of the young players here in Toronto become better players (E.g Bosh, Derozan). Calderon to Miami would likely help Bosh elevate his game a little (from their chemistry here in Toronto), and his defensive flaws could be dealt with with the help defenders in Lebron/Wade/Haslem, and the overall better defensive system. I wouldn't be shocked that if he's let go, that Miami doesn't make a big push for him.


Is this Amnesty Clause a one time thing, or can teams do this crap every year?


I hope it's not every year, cause then the bigger market teams have the advantage of being able to sign guys to big contracts, then let them go the year after (E.g. Knicks sign Curry to huge contract, see he struggles a bit in his first year, they notice that Mark Gasol is a free agent, so they dump Curry and sign Gasol instead, then the next year, the notice Howard is a FA..)

I wouldn't mind it if they made it every 3 years or so (so team would likely have to pay for making a bad signing, but they aren't completely screwed if the player quits on the team halfway through (E.g. Marbury, Curry).

Lord Leoshes
10-22-2011, 03:48 PM
Please help fill in the blanks. :cheers:



Atlanta: Marvin Williams 3 years 24 mil

Boston:

Charlotte: DeSagana Diop's 3 years 20 mil.

Chicago:

Cleveland: Baron Davis 2 year 28.6mil

Dallas: Brenden Haywood 4 year 34 mil

Denver: Al Harrington's 4 years 28 mil

Detroit: Charlie Villanueva 24 mil 3 years or Maxiell's 2 years 10mil. But i'll go with Ben Gorden 3 years 37 mil

Golden State:

Houston:

Indiana: James Posey's 7.5 mil

LA Clippers:

LA Lakers: Luke Walton's 2 years 11.4mil (IF) they cut someone

Memphis:

Miami: Whatever the other guys cut, Miami will pick up. ;)

Milwaukee: Drew Gooden's 4 years 26.5mil

Minnesota:

New Jersey: Travis Outlaw 4 years 28mil

New Orleans: Okafor or Ariza or nothing, & i go with nothing.

New York:

Oklahoma City:

Orlando: Gilbert Arenas 3 years ~62.4mil contract.

Philadelphia:

Phoenix:Vince Carter's expiring contract of 4mil ?

Portland: Brandon Roy

Sacramento:

San Antonio: Richard Jefferson

Toronto:

Utah:

Washington: Rashard Lewis' 2 years 23 mil

rwynyc
10-22-2011, 04:01 PM
I do not think it is going to be as black and white as some of you are making it out to be.

Only guys like Arenas, Eddy Curry, maybe even rashard lewis should fall into this category. Def not guys like boozer. That's ********. There has to be a huge drop in numbers and then it has to be consistent for some time.

bholly
10-22-2011, 06:57 PM
There are two downsides of the amnesty that bother me:
1) total salary payments increase, because owners are together paying the old contracts AND whatever the guys get re-signed for. That seems counterproductive to this whole mess.
2) guys who ended up not being worth their contract can get rewarded for it by getting paid again.

I definitely agree that the amnesty should exist, I just think maybe it needs to be tweaked a little bit.

My first thought was that when a player gets re-signed after being cut, his original contract should be reduced to account for it - that way he isn't paid double and the total salary payments don't increase. Eg Gilbert's $62m contract gets cut, and he signs with someone else for $15m (just pretend, okay?), then Orlando should only owe Gilbert $47m so total salaries don't increase. It would have to go year-by-year - if that $15m is $5m/year for 3 years (the life of Gil's current contract) then Orlando can cut the whole amount. If it's $3m/year for 5 years, Orlando can only cut the first 3 years of it, ie $9m.

The problem with reducing what the original team owes is that if it's a full reduction then he doesn't have any incentive to sign with a new team - he could just take a holiday and get paid the same amount. So I think there are two solutions.
First, which I don't really like, is for partial reductions, eg Gilbert signs a $15m over 3 years contract, Orlando knock say 50% of that off what they owe him. There's still some double payment, but just less. I think that's better, but not the best plan.

What I think would be better would be a waiver type system. Every cut player goes on an amnesty waiver wire which works sort of like an auction - whichever team bids the most for the player takes over their contract for that much.
That is, Gil gets cut, the league holds a Gil auction, the top bid is $15m over 3 years, so the winning team take over Gil's contract (so all the terms and perks are the same) except with the cap footprint reduced to the $15m they bid, while Orlando get rid of the old contract but still have to pay the $47m left over that the new team aren't going to cover. So Gil is still under the same contract and gets the same amount on the same terms as he originally signed for, so it's no different to him than if he got traded, only Orlando pay $47m of his salary and the new team pay $15m.

The 'winner' of the auction would be the team that offers the most over the life of the existing contract. If a team only wants 1 year at $8m then that's fine, but if another team bids $9m over 3 years then the $9m team wins the auction. You can't offer more years than are on the existing contract - eg if someone bids $15m over 3 years you can't just offer $16m over 4 years and win - but if you win the auction for $15m over 3 years you can then negotiate with Gil to extend it for a few more years under whatever terms would be allowed for a regular extension.

If a cut player doesn't get picked up by another team then they become an unrestricted free agent like the last amnesty. I would think it's unlikely that too many player's would get not picked up and then re-signed, though. If you want to sign a player, and nobody else bids, you'd just bid the minimum and pick them up cheap rather than wait until they're a free agent and have negotiating leverage, right?

So, the effect of the system is that teams still get an amnesty to get under the cap as before, only now total salaries don't increase (except for the rare guys who don't get picked up in auction but then sign new contracts later) and players who got overpaid before (and thus are getting cut) don't get rewarded by double pay. It also has parity effects, with small market teams having the same chance as anyone else to pick up these waived players, rather than the best ones getting to ring-chase for cheap like what would happen under FA.

Thoughts?

Tony_Starks
10-22-2011, 07:01 PM
Ya, I find it funny that the small markets owners want this...

How can you complain about competitive balance and then ask to release talented guys, freeing them up to join contenders at the min.

This is one of those instances where bottom line and competitive balance are clearly at odds...and there is no way around that.


Apparently the small market owners want amnesty as long as the players they drop don't go to Miami, NY, Dallas, Lakers, or Chicago.......

bholly
10-22-2011, 07:05 PM
I suppose the main flaw of my proposal is that it further rewards the teams doing the cutting - not only do they get bad contracts off their cap, but they also don't have to pay them in full.
I'm fine with that, though. In some cases (Brandon Roy) it isn't really the GM's fault they're stuck with a bad contract.
In the other cases, like Gil, if he's still a $15m over 3 year player (which he would be if someone bid that as in my ridiculous hypothetical) then he was overpaid by $47m - Orlando would still be paying the whole amount of the overpay and getting no player in return, so I think that's fair. Paying $62m for a $15m player and paying $47m for nothing are about the same, so it isn't too much of a reward.

bholly
10-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Also a televised amnesty auction would be ****ing awesome, especially if there are some guys cut that a bunch of contenders want for cheap - maybe Rip or Baron or even Ben Gordon - or teams wanting to take a chance on B Roy or whatever.
How awesome would it be to watch Rashard Lewis stuck in the greenroom again?

Dade County
10-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Apparently the small market owners want amnesty as long as the players they drop don't go to Miami, NY, Dallas, Lakers, or Chicago.......

Every post I read makes me angrier and angrier.

When I found this out, i almost went crazy... WTF is wrong with these small market owners, they did not think about this?

So they want to cut players, and only other small market teams can sign the amnesty players.... They should come out and say this, so the public & the media can have a feel day. This is getting out of control.

They want players to go through waiver's, like how they do it in the Nfl ... smh

Cal827
10-22-2011, 08:18 PM
Apparently the small market owners want amnesty as long as the players they drop don't go to Miami, NY, Dallas, Lakers, or Chicago.......

Some of the small market owners are freaking pathetic.... SO they basically release a player, but control where they go. It's be nice if some of them don't want to act as if they are slave owners.

Explain why any of the lower market teams rebuilding right now would want guys like Baron Davis, Brandon Roy and such? Also, what about the smaller markets that are contending right now (E.g OKC). So I guess they wouldn't mind if they overloaded that team?

These owners ****ed themselves up by signing or agreeing to absorb the mammoth contracts. What did they expect the player to say when they offered them so much money? They should be thankful that they can rid the bad contracts. But now they are getting choosy. Beggars can't be choosers; they should tell them that either they can release the player, absorb the rest of the years, or consider contracting the team.

Lord Leoshes
10-23-2011, 01:35 PM
Every post I read makes me angrier and angrier.

When I found this out, i almost went crazy... WTF is wrong with these small market owners, they did not think about this?

So they want to cut players, and only other small market teams can sign the amnesty players.... They should come out and say this, so the public & the media can have a feel day. This is getting out of control.

They want players to go through waiver's, like how they do it in the Nfl ... smh


If it was up to the small market owners the Amnesty players would only be allowed to join over seas teams. :rolleyes:

BHF
10-23-2011, 02:38 PM
As a HEAT fan? Are you serious? I've never seen you post on the HEAT forum...

guess if you dont post on the heat forum you cant be a heat fan

Dade County
10-24-2011, 12:33 AM
If it was up to the small market owners the Amnesty players would only be allowed to join over seas teams. :rolleyes:

WHAT!!! :laugh: Good one.

flatbush knicks
10-24-2011, 07:52 PM
can the buls use the amnesty clause on boozer and then sign d12

SportsFanatic10
10-24-2011, 09:09 PM
guess if you dont post on the heat forum you cant be a heat fan

lol exactly the guy's ridiculous. i know the heat have alot of fake fans but i'm definately not one of them and it pisses me off defending myself to a fellow "heat fan". i'm not even going to respond directly to his last post since it makes no sense and reeks of stupid. i read the sunsentinel/heat section everyday. i go to the miami herald online, heat index espn, got wades and alonzo jerseys on the wall for years now and posters hats ect and i've hardly missed a heat game since 02 but i'm not a heat fan :rolleyes: lol. i don't like the individual team forums on psd because they're way less active then the actual official team website forums. truth be told i didn't even like lebron before he came here and still have several issues with him.