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daleja424
10-19-2011, 04:26 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

Soxsnation4life
10-19-2011, 04:30 PM
I'd say 10-12

Sactown
10-19-2011, 04:30 PM
I agree except I don't think Dirk is elite, I think he's a great player with a well fit cast

xxplayerxx23
10-19-2011, 04:37 PM
i think Melo is a number 1 option, And Amare proved he can be. But pretty much agree with you besides that, top 12 to 14 Are elite IMO

nycericanguy
10-19-2011, 04:44 PM
3 or 4 TRUE elites, then you have the level 2 elite that can still be the main guy on a championship team. Off the top of my head

Wade
Lebron
Howard
Durant
Melo
Stat
Rose
Kobe
Dirk

I left off CP3 & Deron, to me a better question is, as great as those 2 guys are, and you can make the case for CP3 being a top 5 player, can you build a contender around either? I think both would need a scoring wing like a Melo or Durant or a center like Howard.

Hellcrooner
10-19-2011, 04:44 PM
around 30.

The difference is how STACKED needs the roster they Lead to be to get that ring.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 04:44 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

The word ELITE is heavily over used today ... I would say about 5 .. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, CP3 and Dwight

I would not consider Rose or Durant elite yet, although I believe they both will be in a couple years .. and for Dirk I just never really felt he was elite. Arguably one of the best scorers in the NBA when he is on he is literally unguardable, but his lack of defense and rebounding holds me back from calling him elite .. after his outstanding playoff performance I wouldn't argue anyone calling him elite though, IMO I just dont see him as a complete enough player to be elite.

bbcmillionaire
10-19-2011, 04:53 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

I'd add Carmelo and pretty much agree with this list.

Dade County
10-19-2011, 05:17 PM
Elite Super star

Wade
Lbj
Kobe ( 3yrs ago)

Super stars ... about 10

Cp3
Melo
Stat
KD
Howard
Rose
Dirk
Paul Pierce
Westbrook ( I think he is really good )
etc...

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 05:20 PM
Elite Super star

Wade
Lbj
Kobe ( 3yrs ago)

Super stars ... about 10

Cp3
Melo
Stat
KD
Howard
Rose
Dirk
Paul Pierce
Westbrook ( I think he is really good )
etc...

you wouldn't consider Dwight or CP3 elite?

Dade County
10-19-2011, 05:23 PM
you wouldn't consider Dwight or CP3 elite?

I probably should.

More Howard then Cp3.. Yep! I just wish he could score more when his team needs him too. No Lbj jokes people lol.

SeoulBeatz
10-19-2011, 05:30 PM
3 or 4 TRUE elites, then you have the level 2 elite that can still be the main guy on a championship team. Off the top of my head

Wade
Lebron
Howard
Durant
Melo
Stat
Rose
Kobe
Dirk

I left off CP3 & Deron, to me a better question is, as great as those 2 guys are, and you can make the case for CP3 being a top 5 player, can you build a contender around either? I think both would need a scoring wing like a Melo or Durant or a center like Howard.


You're contradicting yourself with that statement.

Has Melo shown that you can build a contender around him? I think it'd be much easier to build a conteding team with Cp3 than Melo. Who has Cp3 had throughout his career? David West? Emeka?

Baller1
10-19-2011, 05:33 PM
Elite:
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Rose

On the bubble:
Kobe (not the player he used to be, and that's not a knock on him... Still great).
Dirk (last year was amazing, but I personally think that's the last time we'll see "that" Dirk).
Deron (this year will go a long way toward determining whether he jumps back up to elite level).

Maybe one day:
Westbrook
Griffin
Wall

Just off the top of my head.

nycericanguy
10-19-2011, 05:37 PM
You're contradicting yourself with that statement.

Has Melo shown that you can build a contender around him? I think it'd be much easier to build a conteding team with Cp3 than Melo. Who has Cp3 had throughout his career? David West? Emeka?

no, not contradicting myself. Not comparing Melo to CP3, although DEN was very successful built around Melo. Most championship teams in the recent ERA have been built around dominant wing men or centers. When was the last time a championship team was built around a playmaking PG?

CP3 is a great player, but I don't know if he can be THE GUY on a championship team. Rose is more of a scoring 2 guard than a playmaking PG so I think he could be the exception.

GhostfaceDrilla
10-19-2011, 05:45 PM
Anyone who thinks Dirk, the guy who has carried his team to 11 straight years of 50+ wins, has an MVP, 10 all stars, 12 all nba teams, a Finals MVP and a Finals trophy, isn't an elite player but thinks Durant who hasn't proven **** in the playoffs, Carmelo who hasn't proven **** in the playoffs, and others are elite, is an idiot.

LeBron
Wade
Dwight
Dirk
Paul
Kobe

OlivaThor
10-19-2011, 05:47 PM
Elite:
Lebron James
Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade

Superstars:
Kevin Durant
Derrick Rose
Kobe Bryant (will be lower and lower every year)
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Dirk Nowitzki
Amare Stoudemire
Deron Williams

Need some time:
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love (empty stats now for Wolves)
Russel Westbrook

beliges
10-19-2011, 05:48 PM
It all depends on what elite means to you? In my opinion, there are about 5 elite players in the NBA. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Howard and I guess you would have to put Dirk in there. These guys are the best of the best, the most talented/skilled/athletic players in the world.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 05:56 PM
Okay so most of you agree that there are MAYBE 10 guys you can build a contender around...

So then my question is this... how can you create competitive balance between 30 teams if there are only 8-10 guys in the NBA today that can be cornerstones of a championship team???

Slimsim
10-19-2011, 06:00 PM
Amare is Elite if he play better defense or can get a center to cover his *** like Dirk had in chandler

OlivaThor
10-19-2011, 06:03 PM
2004 Pistons did not have elite players, itīs about good coach, team chemistry and guys, who knows their roles.. And D

beliges
10-19-2011, 06:05 PM
Okay so most of you agree that there are MAYBE 10 guys you can build a contender around...

So then my question is this... how can you create competitive balance between 30 teams if there are only 8-10 guys in the NBA today that can be cornerstones of a championship team???

Its very rare but a team like the 04 Pistons would be a great example. All star level players at every position, great bench, great defense and no elite players.

And the competitive balance of the league is very good right now. Last season the Grizzlies made it to the WCF. OKC was one of the best teams in the league. Dallas won the championship. The Bulls were competitors once again. The Spurs missed the playoffs. NO made noise in the playoffs against the Lakers. There is parity in the league right now. In a league with 30 teams, some are going to be great, some are going to be horrible, and the rest are going to be somewhere in the middle. Thats just how it goes.

beliges
10-19-2011, 06:06 PM
Amare is Elite if he play better defense or can get a center to cover his *** like Dirk had in chandler

Amare is not elite and will never be elite. Hes not good enough to be elite. He's an all star caliber player. Nothing more and nothing less.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 06:07 PM
2004 Pistons did not have elite players, itīs about good coach, team chemistry and guys, who knows their roles.. And D

Those were not role players man... the Pistons had 4 all-stars in their prime on those teams. They lacked a true superstar, but compensated by having 4 all-stars... do you really think that is a sustainable model for competitive balance either? (The Celtics are the other exception to the superstar rule where they simply compiled 4 all-stars instead).

daleja424
10-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Its very rare but a team like the 04 Pistons would be a great example. All star level players at every position, great bench, great defense and no elite players.

So how many teams can you make realistically... built with either a superstar OR with 4 all stars. The most you could possibly make IMO would be 8 (one superstar each) + 4 (16 other all-stars divided onto 4 teams) = 12 teams...

That still leaves over half the league lacking even a single all-star.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 06:11 PM
Every single team that has ever won a title had either a HoFer OR 3+ all-stars on their team.

By definition...that means that half of the league is always going to be obsolete... b/c you never have enough players to make good teams across the board.

OlivaThor
10-19-2011, 06:14 PM
Those were not role players man... the Pistons had 4 all-stars in their prime on those teams. They lacked a true superstar, but compensated by having 4 all-stars... do you really think that is a sustainable model for competitive balance either? (The Celtics are the other exception to the superstar rule where they simply compiled 4 all-stars instead).

I didnīt say, that they were role players, I said that they knows their roles. I also disagree, that 4 of them were on allstars, reason was that you cant pick two of them because they werent allstar material, but together they were.

nycericanguy
10-19-2011, 06:16 PM
Okay so most of you agree that there are MAYBE 10 guys you can build a contender around...

So then my question is this... how can you create competitive balance between 30 teams if there are only 8-10 guys in the NBA today that can be cornerstones of a championship team???

No league can ever have ALL the teams being competitive at the same time. Teams go through cycles.

But to answer, 2 or more all-star players can sometimes be enough to compete, although to win a CHIP you probably need 3 or 4 like DET.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 06:17 PM
I didnīt say, that they were role players, I said that they knows their roles. I also disagree, that 4 of them were on allstars, reason was that you cant pick two of them because they werent allstar material, but together they were.

Disagree all you want but they had one of the best cluth performers, one of th ebest midrange shooters, one of the best PFs, and the best defense center in the league, and they were all lockdown defenders.

And even given all of them... the Pistons are clearly the exception to the rule... not the rule...

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 06:24 PM
Stats make an elite player if you average at least any one of these numbers you're an elite player.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

Because essentially only elite players will be able to average anyone of the above stats.

ALDAVIS>NFL
10-19-2011, 06:28 PM
Elite:
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Rose

On the bubble:
Kobe (not the player he used to be, and that's not a knock on him... Still great).
Dirk (last year was amazing, but I personally think that's the last time we'll see "that" Dirk).
Deron (this year will go a long way toward determining whether he jumps back up to elite level).

Maybe one day:
Westbrook
Griffin
Wall

Just off the top of my head.

Kobe and dirk are definitely elite

The fact that you have rose and durant and even well pretty much everyone but not Kobe is laughable Kobe is still a top dog and one of the most if not the most respected. Kobe is elite and will be elite for 2-3 more years he will be the MVP this year if there is a season quote me on that

Bruno
10-19-2011, 06:34 PM
I agree with Deja. There's the top eight, then everybody else. Although I'd put the 9-15 crowd considerably above those right behind them as well.

If Melo can keep up his three point shooting in NY, and works harder of defense, he'd be in the elite group as well.

Slimsim
10-19-2011, 06:36 PM
Amare is not elite and will never be elite. Hes not good enough to be elite. He's an all star caliber player. Nothing more and nothing less.

His playoff performance says otherwise. Not counting the one in NY

beliges
10-19-2011, 06:36 PM
So how many teams can you make realistically... built with either a superstar OR with 4 all stars. The most you could possibly make IMO would be 8 (one superstar each) + 4 (16 other all-stars divided onto 4 teams) = 12 teams...

That still leaves over half the league lacking even a single all-star.

Not a lot. But of course the majority of the league is not gonna have superstar player. Thats basketball. The true elite players in this league are very few. Only a few teams will end up having elite players. But this is a capitalistic league. If you are smart with what you have, and you can convince a certain player to play for your team, youll get him. These other teams that cannot get superstars are not handicapped in any way nor disadvantaged at all. Some teams are just run much better than other teams. The well run teams will find a way to succeed while the poorly run teams will continue to fail.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 06:44 PM
3 or 4 TRUE elites, then you have the level 2 elite that can still be the main guy on a championship team. Off the top of my head

Wade
Lebron
Howard
Durant
Melo
Stat
Rose
Kobe
Dirk

I left off CP3 & Deron, to me a better question is, as great as those 2 guys are, and you can make the case for CP3 being a top 5 player, can you build a contender around either? I think both would need a scoring wing like a Melo or Durant or a center like Howard.

You have Stats ahead of CP3?:eyebrow:

ewmania
10-19-2011, 06:44 PM
Elite:
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Rose

On the bubble:
Kobe (not the player he used to be, and that's not a knock on him... Still great).
Dirk (last year was amazing, but I personally think that's the last time we'll see "that" Dirk).
Deron (this year will go a long way toward determining whether he jumps back up to elite level).

Maybe one day:
Westbrook
Griffin
Wall

Just off the top of my head.

how can u include CP3 , durant and not Melo

Melo got just as far as Durant has ever got in the playoffs in his career

and further than CP3 has took his team... lets not forget they wiped the floor with new orleans that one year and gave them a embarrassing 69 to like 121 lost in the playoffs... and lets not also forget they almost beat the tough 2009 lakers

EDIT: lets not forget melo got his team in the playoffs his rookie career

Catfish1314
10-19-2011, 06:45 PM
Elite:
Lebron
Wade
Dwight
Durant
CP3
Rose

On the bubble:
Kobe (not the player he used to be, and that's not a knock on him... Still great).
Dirk (last year was amazing, but I personally think that's the last time we'll see "that" Dirk).
Deron (this year will go a long way toward determining whether he jumps back up to elite level).

Maybe one day:
Westbrook
Griffin
Wall

Just off the top of my head.

Dirk's been doing what he did this year in the playoffs for a long time. I would like to see your rationale for this.

Hopefully a Mavs fan doesn't see that.

smith&wesson
10-19-2011, 06:46 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

imo no one player can lead a team to a championship with out another tier one or combination of tier two players.

i dont think any one player can really win by himself anymore. so if were simply talking elite players

tier 1
lebron
wade
durant
kobe
howard
dirk
melo
paul
rose
williams
j.johnson
stat
griffen

tier 2
nash
gasol
allen
peirce
randolph
bosh
ellis
aldridge
gino
iggy
granger
gay
g.wallace
josh smith
rondo
westbrook


and im sure im missing some. point is theres no shortage in star power in the nba.

EDIT:some will argue that nash ,allen and pierce were tier 1 talents in theyre prime and I would agree but at this point in theyre careers i would consider them tier 2 level elite which is still very respectable in its own.

ewmania
10-19-2011, 06:46 PM
You have Stats ahead of CP3?:eyebrow:

stat, 2 conference finals appearences

CP3 had what, 2 or 3 playoff appearences in his career

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 06:50 PM
stat, 2 conference finals appearences

CP3 had what, 2 or 3 playoff appearences in his career

I know we love winning, but you can't just determine an individual player talent level based off of post season success. Nash was playing at an MVP level those years. So you could make the case that Amare wasn't even the best player on that team.

dwadefan03
10-19-2011, 06:51 PM
IMO to be elite you have to be dominant on both ends of the floor. The only players that do that are

wade
kobe
lebron
paul
howard


guys like dirk melo and durant shouldnt be considered elite because they are not as good on defense

ewmania
10-19-2011, 06:52 PM
I know we love winning, but you can't just determine an individual player talent level based off of post season success. Nash was playing at an MVP level those years. So you could make the case that Amare wasn't even the best player on that team.

ok u can also make a argument that nash and phoenix sucked when amare left also... sure jordan was mvp but yet he never made it past pistons, boston and barely beat LA without Pippen... 1991 he beat all those teams with another elite player

ewmania
10-19-2011, 06:53 PM
IMO to be elite you have to be dominant on both ends of the floor. The only players that do that are

wade
kobe
lebron
paul
howard


guys like dirk melo and durant shouldnt be considered elite because they are not as good on defense

that hardly makes sense... Bill Russel wasnt that great on offense... shaq wasnt that great on defense... so they are not elite?

Cosmic_Canon
10-19-2011, 06:57 PM
Wade,CP3,Bron, Howard are all ELITE

smith&wesson
10-19-2011, 07:21 PM
So out of 432 some odd players you guys think theres only 8 of them that are elite ? CMON.

i think your confusing elite with superstar.

i would say the top 30 players out of 432 would be considered elite.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 07:29 PM
So out of 432 some odd players you guys think theres only 8 of them that are elite ? CMON.

i think your confusing elite with superstar.

i would say the top 30 players out of 432 would be considered elite.

name me 30 ELITE players ... theres easily less than 10 ELITE players in the NBA today you have got to be joking ...

tom04041
10-19-2011, 07:30 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

I agree with the original list. I think there is a small but meaningful gap between these players and the next set of 4-6 top players.

I'd place Wade, Paul, Howard, & James in my top group in no particular order, and then the other 4 a small step back from them.

smith&wesson
10-19-2011, 07:45 PM
name me 30 ELITE players ... theres easily less than 10 ELITE players in the NBA today you have got to be joking ...

i did its on the 3rd page.

i guess it depends on your defintion of elite.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 08:13 PM
to me... being an elite player means a team could win (or at least contend) with you as their major piece.

effen5
10-19-2011, 08:22 PM
to me... being an elite player means a team could win (or at least contend) with you as their major piece.

Agreed. Your original list is the good.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 08:25 PM
i did its on the 3rd page.

i guess it depends on your defintion of elite.


to me... being an elite player means a team could win (or at least contend) with you as their major piece.

hahaha oh wow, alright well i have a completely different understanding of the term elite than you guys do then ..

SportsAndrew25
10-19-2011, 08:27 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?The guys you listed, Tim Duncan, Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire, and Carmelo Anthony.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 08:27 PM
how so? I said there were only 8 elite players in my OP...

daleja424
10-19-2011, 08:29 PM
The guys you listed, Tim Duncan, Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire, and Carmelo Anthony.

I have a hard time with those guys b/c:

Tim Duncan is too old now... he is no longer a #1 IMO
Blake Griffin is too young...and hasn't actually proven he can make his team any good
And neither STAT or Melo have ever proven they can be a #1 and get a team out of the first round (Despite a combined 15+ years of NBA time)

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 08:31 PM
If Rose is elite, i would consider 'Melo, Amar'e, Williams, Steve Nash, Pau, and Westbrook to be elite as well. Hell, i might even throw Kevin Love in there. Again, thats IF Rose is elite.

For me it would have to be four players, Dwight, Lebron, Wade, and Chris Paul.

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 08:35 PM
Those were not role players man... the Pistons had 4 all-stars in their prime on those teams. They lacked a true superstar, but compensated by having 4 all-stars... do you really think that is a sustainable model for competitive balance either? (The Celtics are the other exception to the superstar rule where they simply compiled 4 all-stars instead).

True and you certainly could consider Billups a superstar during his Detroit years. Those teams were stacked.

daleja424
10-19-2011, 08:39 PM
If Rose is elite, i would consider 'Melo, Amar'e, Williams, Steve Nash, Pau, and Westbrook to be elite as well. Hell, i might even throw Kevin Love in there. Again, thats IF Rose is elite.

For me it would have to be four players, Dwight, Lebron, Wade, and Chris Paul.

Nah man. Rose has proven he can lead a team deep into the playoffs... none of those others have proven that.

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 08:48 PM
None of those players were ever on the top ranked defense.

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 08:58 PM
Again I say find anyone averaging at minimum any one of the stats below and you have the elite list not everyone can do ..........

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:03 PM
This is basically the elite players in the NBA and they got the numbers to back it up!

1 Kevin Durant , OKC
2 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL
3 Derrick Rose , CHI
4 Dwight Howard , ORL
5 Carmelo Anthony , NYK
6 Dwyane Wade , MIA
7 Russell Westbrook , OKC
8 LeBron James , MIA
9 Kobe Bryant , LAL
10 Zach Randolph , MEM
11 Chris Paul , NOH
12 Danny Granger , IND
13 LaMarcus Aldridge
14 Paul Pierce
15 Manu Ginobili

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:06 PM
Elite Shot Blockers
1 Serge Ibaka , OKC
2 Tim Duncan , SAS
3 Marc Gasol , MEM
4 Josh Smith , ATL
5 Joakim Noah , CHI

ALDAVIS>NFL
10-19-2011, 09:06 PM
This is basically the elite players in the NBA and they got the numbers to back it up!

1 Kevin Durant , OKC
2 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL
3 Derrick Rose , CHI
4 Dwight Howard , ORL
5 Carmelo Anthony , NYK
6 Dwyane Wade , MIA
7 Russell Westbrook , OKC
8 LeBron James , MIA
9 Kobe Bryant , LAL
10 Zach Randolph , MEM
11 Chris Paul , NOH
12 Danny Granger , IND
13 LaMarcus Aldridge
14 Paul Pierce
15 Manu Ginobili

Smh at your list...:facepalm:

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 09:06 PM
Again I say find anyone averaging at minimum any one of the stats below and you have the elite list not everyone can do ..........

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

Javale Mcgee gets well over 2 blocks per game .. do you consider him an elite player?

*Edit* Darko also gets over 2 bpg .. does that make him elite?

I can point out so many flaws in your ranking of elite players this way
Bargnani scores over 20ppg
Reggie Evans has 11.5 rebs
Mcgee/Darko over 2bpg
Ellis/Rondo over 2 spg
Calderon 9 apg
Ryan Anderson/Carlos Delfino/Channing Frye/J-Rich/D-Wright/Steph Curry all over 2 3pg

NONE of these players are elite

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:09 PM
Elite Shooters

1 Ray Allen , BOS
2 Paul Pierce , BOS
3 Carmelo Anthony , NYK
4 Jrue Holiday , PHI
5 Kevin Durant , OKC
6 Jason Kidd , DAL
7 Chauncey Billups , NYK
7 Jason Terry , DAL
9 Manu Ginobili , SAS

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:12 PM
Smh at your list...:facepalm:

You disagree cool but look at the numbers and remember those players games during the season those ARE the elite ballers

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 09:13 PM
Elite Shot Blockers
1 Serge Ibaka , OKC
2 Tim Duncan , SAS
3 Marc Gasol , MEM
4 Josh Smith , ATL
5 Joakim Noah , CHI

no Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Javale Mcgee, Darko ? those are 4 of the top 5 shot blockers per game last season ..

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:14 PM
Javale Mcgee gets well over 2 blocks per game .. do you consider him an elite player?

*Edit* Darko also gets over 2 bpg .. does that make him elite?

They are elite shot blockers so yes any coach in the league would want an elite shot blocking presence like that on the floor for them in the league theres only a small number of guys that can block 2 shots per game and believe me any position on the court can be a shot blocker so the opportunity is there its just not easy to do even if you're tall.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 09:18 PM
Again I say find anyone averaging at minimum any one of the stats below and you have the elite list not everyone can do ..........

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

I can point out so many flaws in your ranking of elite players this way
Bargnani scores over 20ppg
Reggie Evans has 11.5 rebs
Mcgee/Darko over 2bpg
Ellis/Rondo over 2 spg
Calderon 9 apg
Ryan Anderson/Carlos Delfino/Channing Frye/J-Rich/D-Wright/Steph Curry all over 2 3pg

you have got to be kidding me that these players are ELITE :facepalm:

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:19 PM
no Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut, Javale Mcgee, Darko ? those are 4 of the top 5 shot blockers per game last season ..

That just shows you how difficult it is to be an elite shot blocker because as far as I know none of those players averages 2 bpg shot blocking to the tune of just two a game is an elite skill when its consistent Olajuan Mutumbo etc credentials vouch for that you can make a career on shot blocking alone same with scoring, assists, rebounds, 3 point shooting, steals all critical skills and make a player elite when done at a high level. Even if you're only elite in one of them. but MOST of the elite players are good in 2 or 3 of those skillsets sometimes.

effen5
10-19-2011, 09:29 PM
None of those players were ever on the top ranked defense.

and guess what....take Rose off last years roster and they are not a 62 win team and they don't make the playoffs.


Whose going to be their go to scorer? Boozer was hurt, and Deng did a lot but thats it.


Stop underrating Rose.

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:30 PM
I can point out so many flaws in your ranking of elite players this way
Bargnani scores over 20ppg
Reggie Evans has 11.5 rebs
Mcgee/Darko over 2bpg
Ellis/Rondo over 2 spg
Calderon 9 apg
Ryan Anderson/Carlos Delfino/Channing Frye/J-Rich/D-Wright/Steph Curry all over 2 3pg

you have got to be kidding me that these players are ELITE :facepalm:

No I'm not kidding just look how small your list is there are a lot of players that can't even be mentioned as someone said earlier the list of elite players is definitely larger than just 5 or 10 by definition

elite is A group of people considered to be the best in a particular category, esp. because of their talent.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 09:42 PM
No I'm not kidding just look how small your list is there are a lot of players that can't even be mentioned as someone said earlier the list of elite players is definitely larger than just 5 or 10 by definition

elite is A group of people considered to be the best in a particular category, esp. because of their talent.

Lmao if you consider Ryan Anderson an ELITE player ...

heattiltheend94
10-19-2011, 09:45 PM
elite (not in order): Wade, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, D12, and CP3. and if Dirk can play at playoff level consistetly, then him to

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 09:47 PM
LOL at LaMarcus Aldridge, Danny Granger and Zach Randolph being elite players

Pass whatever you're smoking this way

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:50 PM
Lmao if you consider Ryan Anderson an ELITE player ...

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from but if he averages 2 or more 3 pointers a game he is certainly an elite player. Don't you see how valuable that is. Now if we're seperating Hall of Famers from the best players in the NBA then yes I can see a very short list of players to the tune of 5 - 10 active players IF THAT. But is the talent was as low as some of you think of it the NBA would certainly be a more boring game.

But not just that again not many players can do these things and the impact is very significant right?

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:53 PM
LOL at LaMarcus Aldridge, Danny Granger and Zach Randolph being elite players

Pass whatever you're smoking this way

Dude you telling me that those 3 arent the best on their teams and played some of the best basketball last year. Now if we're talking entire body of work thats different but yes those guys are ballers man you guys are tough critics.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-19-2011, 09:53 PM
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from but if he averages 2 or more 3 pointers a game he is certainly an elite player. Don't you see how valuable that is. Now if we're seperating Hall of Famers from the best players in the NBA then yes I can see a very short list of players to the tune of 5 - 10 active players IF THAT. But is the talent was as low as some of you think of it the NBA would certainly be a more boring game.

But not just that again not many players can do these things and the impact is very significant right?

:facepalm: i am speechless

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 09:55 PM
Dude you telling me that those 3 arent the best on their teams and played some of the best basketball last year. Now if we're talking entire body of work thats different but yes those guys are ballers man you guys are tough critics.

Are we just picking the best player off every team and calling them elite? So the raptors have an elite player? Who's their elite player, Andrea Bargnani?

LOL, come on man.

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 09:57 PM
:facepalm: i am speechless

lol agree to disagree but Im telling you players are few and far between that can knock down 2 or more 3 pointers every game and those that can are respected shooters believe dat. btw WHO DAT :D

beliges
10-19-2011, 09:58 PM
The term "elite" in this case seems to be very vague to some people. Elite, as an adjective is defined "representing the most choice, or select; the best."

Using its actual definition, there are only a handful of elite players in this league. They are LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Dwight and probably Dirk. The rest are superstars, but not the best of the best.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 10:03 PM
how about just taking the top 3 players at every position and calling them elite? I'm cool with that

except for center, Dwight is the only elite center

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 10:03 PM
Thats what makes a debate the grey areas and to me the best of the best are called hall of famers but certainly to me the list of elite players is larger than a handful as in elite shooter elite dunker elite passer elite defensive coach etc etc

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 10:05 PM
how about just taking the top 3 players at every position and calling them elite? I'm cool with that

except for center, Dwight is the only elite center

See now this ^^^^^ I think is a fair assessment of elite as well.

Giraffes Rule
10-19-2011, 10:05 PM
Six.


Thats what makes a debate the grey areas and to me the best of the best are called hall of famers but certainly to me the list of elite players is larger than a handful as in elite shooter elite dunker elite passer elite defensive coach etc etc

The question is elite player. To me, and elite player is elite in multiple parts of their game. Defensively, shooting, driving, or passing. They have a combination of those skills. Matt Bonner, statistically, would be an elite three point shooter. He is not an elite player. Not by a long shot.

Underdogz∞
10-19-2011, 10:13 PM
Six.



The question is elite player. To me, and elite player is elite in multiple parts of their game. Defensively, shooting, driving, or passing. They have a combination of those skills. Matt Bonner, statistically, would be an elite three point shooter. He is not an elite player. Not by a long shot.

I see your point but see I'm not sure that Matt Bonner and he is a deadly shooter averages 2 or more 3 pointers per game. Thats my point when you look at the list of players that can get 2 THREEs meaning 2.0 NOT 1.8 rounded up same with blocks or steals or 12-15 rebounds or scoring 20 + a game your point gets validated because a lot of the players that are tops in scoring are also tops in another category or two

NYMetros
10-19-2011, 10:33 PM
Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Rose, and Dwight

Bubble: Deron Williams, LeBron James, Durant, Manu Ginobili

MR.TRIPDUB
10-20-2011, 11:03 AM
I cant believe some people are not including dirk. Did you read the op's post? Dirk is the number 1 option on the team that won the freakin championship. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 06:20 PM
Are we just picking the best player off every team and calling them elite? So the raptors have an elite player? Who's their elite player, Andrea Bargnani?

LOL, come on man.

No I had said that the averaging one of the below stats get you elite status
Obviously a few players average more than one of the below category.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

RZZZA
10-20-2011, 06:31 PM
^ thats an interesting way to look at it

daleja424
10-20-2011, 06:38 PM
No I had said that the averaging one of the below stats get you elite status
Obviously a few players average more than one of the below category.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

I asked about elite players though...and gave a very specific definition. WHy is it so hard to play by those rules?

How about this... I'll take Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Kobe, and Howard on my team...and you can have your elite guys (Love, Darko, Bargnani, Dorell Wright, and Carlos Delfino). Enjoy!

OGMarkWahlberg
10-20-2011, 07:04 PM
lol agree to disagree but Im telling you players are few and far between that can knock down 2 or more 3 pointers every game and those that can are respected shooters believe dat. btw WHO DAT :D

agree to disagree? nobody agrees with that stupid ****ing post ... if you consider Ryan Anderson and Channing Frye ELITE players you clearly are a ****ing idiot ..

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 08:30 PM
agree to disagree? nobody agrees with that stupid ****ing post ... if you consider Ryan Anderson and Channing Frye ELITE players you clearly are a ****ing idiot ..

Again I dont know where you got your numbers from but no one you have been mentioning by my knowledge meet the criteria I posted. As far as I know these below are the only players that fit that criteria. There is no one listed in the Steals and Passing Elite categories because the only players "elite" enough to do it are already listed. I'll just disregard the cursing and name calling TOUGH GUY.

Elite Scorers
1 Kevin Durant , OKC
2 Dirk Nowitzki , DAL
3 Derrick Rose , CHI
4 Dwight Howard , ORL
5 Carmelo Anthony , NYK
6 Dwyane Wade , MIA
7 Russell Westbrook , OKC
8 LeBron James , MIA
9 Kobe Bryant , LAL
10 Zach Randolph , MEM
11 Chris Paul , NOH
12 Danny Granger , IND
13 LaMarcus Aldridge
14 Paul Pierce
15 Manu Ginobili

Elite Shot Blockers
1 Serge Ibaka , OKC
2 Tim Duncan , SAS
3 Marc Gasol , MEM
4 Josh Smith , ATL
5 Joakim Noah , CHI

Elite Shooters
1 Ray Allen , BOS
2 Paul Pierce , BOS
3 Carmelo Anthony , NYK
4 Jrue Holiday , PHI
5 Kevin Durant , OKC
6 Jason Kidd , DAL
7 Chauncey Billups , NYK
7 Jason Terry , DAL
9 Manu Ginobili , SAS

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 08:36 PM
I asked about elite players though...and gave a very specific definition. WHy is it so hard to play by those rules?

How about this... I'll take Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Kobe, and Howard on my team...and you can have your elite guys (Love, Darko, Bargnani, Dorell Wright, and Carlos Delfino). Enjoy!

I'm not sure where you got your numbers but none of those players met the criteria. The list of players that do are posted. They are all elite players because they possess an elite skill or two. So you could have that line up I'll surely take Chris Paul, DRose, Durant, Josh Smith, and Joakim Noah tho.

daleja424
10-20-2011, 08:40 PM
No I had said that the averaging one of the below stats get you elite status
Obviously a few players average more than one of the below category.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter


I asked about elite players though...and gave a very specific definition. WHy is it so hard to play by those rules?

How about this... I'll take Lebron, Wade, Dirk, Kobe, and Howard on my team...and you can have your elite guys (Love, Darko, Bargnani, Dorell Wright, and Carlos Delfino). Enjoy!


I'm not sure where you got your numbers but none of those players met the criteria. The list of players that do are posted. They are all elite players. So you could have that line up I'll surely take Chris Paul, DRose, Durant, Josh Smith, and Joakim Noah tho.

Actually tthe players I listed do meet your criteria...

Love- 15.2 rpg
Bargnani- 21.4 ppg
Darko- 2.0 blocks
Dorell and Delfino- greater than 2 three-pointers made per game

What the hell numbers are you looking at? Clearly not last years stats...

RealistRocket34
10-20-2011, 08:44 PM
Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Rose, and Dwight

Bubble: Deron Williams, LeBron James, Durant, Manu Ginobili

I lold.

daleja424
10-20-2011, 08:45 PM
Underdogs...before you tell people off... start by looking at a correct stats list. Based on your list it is clear to me that you are looking at the playoff stats from last year.

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 08:51 PM
Actually tthe players I listed do meet your criteria...

Love- 15.2 rpg
Bargnani- 21.4 ppg
Darko- 2.0 blocks
Dorell and Delfino- greater than 2 three-pointers made per game

What the hell numbers are you looking at? Clearly not last years stats...

I'll stand corrected if my list is wrong but I stand by any player that can do any one of those things being elite!

Since when is grabbing 15 boards scoring 20 plus points blocking 2 shots every game dishing 10 assists or making 2 or 2 steals or 2 three points every game not impressive and thus elite you know how hard it is to find a player that can do any one of those on average for a season at the NBA level. By your standards the Hall of Fame would even have about 50 people in it as players.

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 08:55 PM
Underdogs...before you tell people off... start by looking at a correct stats list. Based on your list it is clear to me that you are looking at the playoff stats from last year.

I aint telling no one off this is the internet its an opinion a post if I tell people off I do it face to face like a man.

daleja424
10-20-2011, 08:57 PM
I'll stand corrected if my list is wrong but I stand by any player that can do any one of those things being elite!

Since when is grabbing 15 boards scoring 20 plus points blocking 2 shots every game dishing 10 assists or making 2 or 2 steals or 2 three points every game not impressive and thus elite you know how hard it is to find a player that can do any one of those on average for a season at the NBA level. By your standards the Hall of Fame would even have about 50 people in it as players.

You are defining what measures a good player... not an elite player.

I stand by what I said... which team would win in this matchup?

My team:
Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Dirk
Howard

Your team:
Millicic
Love
Bargnani
Wright
Delfino

100 out of 100 people would say my team...andthat is because there is a clear difference between the players on my list and the players on yours.

Underdogz∞
10-20-2011, 09:05 PM
You are defining what measures a good player... not an elite player.

I stand by what I said... which team would win in this matchup?

My team:
Wade
Lebron
Kobe
Dirk
Howard

Your team:
Millicic
Love
Bargnani
Wright
Delfino

100 out of 100 people would say my team...andthat is because there is a clear difference between the players on my list and the players on yours.

Yea I see you chose the bottom part of the elite players to influence your point, but in a more fair sense your question should be like asking someone who will win out of the Mavs and Heat because the Mavs had Dirk aTerry Kidd three elite players and they beat Wade and James two elite players. In reality a good team would consist of chemistry/balance as well as elite talent.

Lakersfan2483
10-20-2011, 09:28 PM
How many guys in todays league do you think can be legit number one go-to guys for a championship contender?

I say 8: Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, Paul, Durant, Rose, and Dwight. How many elite legit number ones do you think are in the league today? and who are they?

Elite Players: Kobe, Dirk, Lebron, Howard, C. Paul, D. Rose, Durant, Melo and Wade.

SportsFanatic10
10-21-2011, 05:20 AM
if talking about elite all around players there's not very many. theres a number of players that are elite at certain aspects of the game but average/weak in others. my list of elite all around players is short and only includes:

Lebron, Wade, Paul, Howard, and Kobe.

honorable mention: Durant, Rose, Deron, Melo, and Dirk.

and even then they all have small holes in there all around games (including the 5 elite players i listed but mostly the last 5).

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-21-2011, 06:35 AM
Stats make an elite player if you average at least any one of these numbers you're an elite player.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

Because essentially only elite players will be able to average anyone of the above stats.

no

Knicks21
10-21-2011, 07:11 AM
No I had said that the averaging one of the below stats get you elite status
Obviously a few players average more than one of the below category.

20 points per game - elite scorer
12-15 rebounds per game - elite rebounder
2 blocks per game - elite shot blocker
2 steals per game - elite defender
10 assists per game - elite passer
2-3 THREE pointers per game - elite shooter

Nothing worse than measuring defence with steals.

Lucky.
10-21-2011, 11:17 AM
Elite Shot Blockers
1 Serge Ibaka , OKC
2 Tim Duncan , SAS
3 Marc Gasol , MEM
4 Josh Smith , ATL
5 Joakim Noah , CHI


Who are the elite bench warmers?