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Russollini
10-19-2011, 09:57 AM
I have been a basketball fan since I could watch it in the early 80's. I loved the Pistons and the Knicks back then. When the Heat debuted in Miami, I was a Heat Fan (lived in Ft. Lauderdale).

I have loved the game since I was a kid, just as I was baseball fan (grew up watching spring training Yankee Games), a Dolphin fan (loved the Niners and Raiders though) and to a lesser extent a Hockey fan (until the Panthers came into town). I played fantasy Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey from the day that they were free on Yahoo. I was a sports fan.

In 1994, Baseball was flying high, and then the strike. They needed years and roids to get the game back to where it is today. It took me about 3-4 years to actually care about the game again. This coming from someone that would get the paper as a kid, steal the sports page and memorize box scores.

When Hockey went on strike, I never went back, and to this day can careless.

So my question is "Why Do We Care About the NBA?" When they went on strike the last time, losing half of the season, my interest fell off considerably. I came back a casual fan. I did not like the change in the style of play. I wanted to see the bruising style of yesteryear. I wanted the Knicks and Pistons back, but the fire was gone from most teams. They started to get star hungry. They marketed players and not teams. It was AI vs Vinsanity or Kobe vs Lebron. They no longer played a team sport, it was a one on one iso game. Even in the days of Jordan, it was Jordan and Pippen. No one dared say Jordan vs the Jazz. It was a team effort. The last shot went to a no name sharp shooter from the corner more often then not.

Last year the league grew leaps and bounds, why? Because the stars started to align to make mega teams again. Everyone wanted to see how this would work. It was Wade, Bron and Bosh. Could they carry a team? Could they play together? It was fun, but it turned into 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. It was however a start, maybe they were going back to a team game. Now they are on strike. So I wonder, who cares? I do not have that hole in my life that I felt the last time Basketball or Baseball went down. If they come back, great. If not oh well, there is always Football till the next baseball season.

I believe that the NBA has overvalued their place in the average American's life, and they are playing with fire.

Thoughts?

mttwlsn16
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
um
we care bc we want to see NBA basketball
/

ManningToTyree
10-19-2011, 10:10 AM
Well written post and I understand where you are coming from. The casual fan will die off if the lockout lingers. I will be anxiously awaiting the start of the next NBA season, but I love the sport. It doesn't dictate my life , but it surely enhances it.

You are right in saying the NBA is playing with fire. When the average fan has no interest, the league suffers greatly. There are not enough die-hard fans to fill arenas every night plain and simple.

thenetslegend
10-19-2011, 10:26 AM
i dont get the point of casual fans, you either watch it or you dont

likemystylez
10-19-2011, 10:27 AM
I have been a basketball fan since I could watch it in the early 80's. I loved the Pistons and the Knicks back then. When the Heat debuted in Miami, I was a Heat Fan (lived in Ft. Lauderdale).


Well seeing as you have liked and/or loved 3 different teams int he same confrence in the last 30 years... it appears as though you are not a hardcoare enough fan to understand why a lot of us on here care. Most of us couldnt just become a fan of a team based on where we are living... esp if we already had a fav team somewhere else.

I have loved the game since I was a kid, just as I was baseball fan (grew up watching spring training Yankee Games), a Dolphin fan (loved the Niners and Raiders though) and to a lesser extent a Hockey fan (until the Panthers came into town). I played fantasy Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey from the day that they were free on Yahoo. I was a sports fan.

In 1994, Baseball was flying high, and then the strike. They needed years and roids to get the game back to where it is today. It took me about 3-4 years to actually care about the game again. This coming from someone that would get the paper as a kid, steal the sports page and memorize box scores.

When Hockey went on strike, I never went back, and to this day can careless.

So my question is "Why Do We Care About the NBA?" When they went on strike the last time, losing half of the season, my interest fell off considerably.

Nobody ever went on strike. It's a lockout... HUGE DIFFERENCE. A strike is a choice made by the players. The owners are the side that made the clear choice both times for the fans to miss games. This is a misconception that a lot of casual fans I talk to have. They always say "The players are sitting out cuz they want more money".... and at that point, anybody who has been following the lockout just kinda ends the conversation.

I came back a casual fan. I did not like the change in the style of play. I wanted to see the bruising style of yesteryear. I wanted the Knicks and Pistons back, but the fire was gone from most teams. They started to get star hungry. They marketed players and not teams. It was AI vs Vinsanity or Kobe vs Lebron. They no longer played a team sport, it was a one on one iso game. Even in the days of Jordan, it was Jordan and Pippen. No one dared say Jordan vs the Jazz. It was a team effort. The last shot went to a no name sharp shooter from the corner more often then not.

Last year the league grew leaps and bounds, why? Because the stars started to align to make mega teams again. Everyone wanted to see how this would work. It was Wade, Bron and Bosh. Could they carry a team? Could they play together? It was fun, but it turned into 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. It was however a start, maybe they were going back to a team game. Now they are on strike. So I wonder, who cares? I do not have that hole in my life that I felt the last time Basketball or Baseball went down. If they come back, great. If not oh well, there is always Football till the next baseball season.

I believe that the NBA has overvalued their place in the average American's life, and they are playing with fire.

Thoughts?

In regards to your last statement. The nba is definitely playing with fire, and coming off such an amazing year... its hard to believe there arent enough smart business people in that room to be pushing like crazy to make a deal. In this economy where there is over 4 billion dollars to be made... its really sad that these guys cant figure it out.

Also- I think its great news that the cities that have fionanced the arenas for these teams are threatening a lawsuite. These guys want the support of their cities.... then its not unreasonable for the city to expect them to do their share. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who work at arenas or work at businesses around arenas that depend on the traffic of these games to make a living in this economy.

I know both sides like to sit there and blame the other side, but the truth is- the people in that negotiating room are the only people ont he planet who have the ability to solve this problem.

Eagles710
10-19-2011, 10:36 AM
I have been a basketball fan since I could watch it in the early 80's. I loved the Pistons and the Knicks back then. When the Heat debuted in Miami, I was a Heat Fan (lived in Ft. Lauderdale).

I have loved the game since I was a kid, just as I was baseball fan (grew up watching spring training Yankee Games), a Dolphin fan (loved the Niners and Raiders though) and to a lesser extent a Hockey fan (until the Panthers came into town). I played fantasy Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey from the day that they were free on Yahoo. I was a sports fan.

In 1994, Baseball was flying high, and then the strike. They needed years and roids to get the game back to where it is today. It took me about 3-4 years to actually care about the game again. This coming from someone that would get the paper as a kid, steal the sports page and memorize box scores.

When Hockey went on strike, I never went back, and to this day can careless.

So my question is "Why Do We Care About the NBA?" When they went on strike the last time, losing half of the season, my interest fell off considerably. I came back a casual fan. I did not like the change in the style of play. I wanted to see the bruising style of yesteryear. I wanted the Knicks and Pistons back, but the fire was gone from most teams. They started to get star hungry. They marketed players and not teams. It was AI vs Vinsanity or Kobe vs Lebron. They no longer played a team sport, it was a one on one iso game. Even in the days of Jordan, it was Jordan and Pippen. No one dared say Jordan vs the Jazz. It was a team effort. The last shot went to a no name sharp shooter from the corner more often then not.

Last year the league grew leaps and bounds, why? Because the stars started to align to make mega teams again. Everyone wanted to see how this would work. It was Wade, Bron and Bosh. Could they carry a team? Could they play together? It was fun, but it turned into 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. It was however a start, maybe they were going back to a team game. Now they are on strike. So I wonder, who cares? I do not have that hole in my life that I felt the last time Basketball or Baseball went down. If they come back, great. If not oh well, there is always Football till the next baseball season.

I believe that the NBA has overvalued their place in the average American's life, and they are playing with fire.

Thoughts?






is it weird that i do not have the patients to actually read all of this , but since there is so much written you must have said something smart, so im going to agree with you 100% GREAT POST :clap:

sep11ie
10-19-2011, 10:42 AM
You sure do follow a lot of teams...

LongIslandIcedZ
10-19-2011, 10:52 AM
It sucks given how hot the NBA got last year compared to previous. Knicks were good, Bulls were good, Celtics were good, Lakers were good. And fans of all these teams had one common enemy in Miami. Storyline's draw people in, the way the Heat went out and created this superpower team and deemed themselves the villains was huge for the NBA. This lockout came at the worst possible time because of how good the NBA is getting.

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 10:57 AM
You sure do follow a lot of teams...

... And this is probably why he doesn't care. He's always been a causual fan/bandwagoner.

ink
10-19-2011, 11:14 AM
More than the casual fan is losing interest in this league, and, no, last year was not a great year by historical NBA standards. Yes, there were some very exciting teams and yes, the super teams go against everything that sport and competition stand for. It's the sporting equivalent of collusion, but it's actually worse than that. No sport should be driven by boys that want to play with each other; it should be driven by men who want to compete AGAINST each other. And I completely agree that last year, watching LBJ and DWade play with Bosh was 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. Give us back the team sport please. I have zero interest in watching two slashers dominate the ball all night. It is brutal to watch. I do agree though that the Bulls, Lakers, and OKC were exciting to watch, but not enough to offset the culture of greed that now completely dominates the league and the league's biggest stars.

Am I a diehard fan? Yes. And that's absolutely why, for the sake of the game, I'd be happy watching NCAA for at least a season if not more, to appreciate the actual game of basketball. At least there the stars don't work out behind the scene deals with their BFFs so they can play together when they can't win alone. lol.

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 11:43 AM
More than the casual fan is losing interest in this league, and, no, last year was not a great year by historical NBA standards. Yes, there were some very exciting teams and yes, the super teams go against everything that sport and competition stand for. It's the sporting equivalent of collusion, but it's actually worse than that. No sport should be driven by boys that want to play with each other; it should be driven by men who want to compete AGAINST each other. And I completely agree that last year, watching LBJ and DWade play with Bosh was 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. Give us back the team sport please. I have zero interest in watching two slashers dominate the ball all night. It is brutal to watch. I do agree though that the Bulls, Lakers, and OKC were exciting to watch, but not enough to offset the culture of greed that now completely dominates the league and the league's biggest stars.

Am I a diehard fan? Yes. And that's absolutely why, for the sake of the game, I'd be happy watching NCAA for at least a season if not more, to appreciate the actual game of basketball. At least there the stars don't work out behind the scene deals with their BFFs so they can play together when they can't win alone. lol.

Yawn. You totally contradicted yourself by saying you want to see a TEAM game and ridiculing guys that don't have a "me first" mentality and want to be part of a great team. You'd have absolutely no problem with this if it was your team. Admit it.

ink
10-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Yawn. You totally contradicted yourself by saying you want to see a TEAM game and ridiculing guys that don't have a "me first" mentality and want to be part of a great team. You'd have absolutely no problem with this if it was your team. Admit it.

You're apparently content with deflecting my post with the stock responses to criticism of your team. Fair enough. But that isn't really what my post was about. My post is about the absolute lack of personal responsibility and competitiveness in many of the biggest stars. The league actually created its own monster by overhyping a generation of second tier superstars to fill the void when MJ left. Now they and the diehard fan who has grown up passionate about the game have to endure the massive egos they've created. Never before have superstars like Melo, Amare, Bosh, CP3, LBJ, and DHoward wanted to bail on their own teams like this generation does. Yes, that is the opposite of a team sport. Ask Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Hakeem, Drexler, Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc, etc what "team" means and you will get a very different answer. Part of the problem has been the way the NBA decided to market its starts about 10-12 years ago, focusing on superstars instead of the sport itself, and part of the problem is the flawed previous CBA which gave license to players and agents to put themselves before the team. I don't buy the twisted logic that says that players with no loyalty or commitment to the team are actually team players because they pick the easiest route to a ring, a "super team". lol. But don't make it all about the Heat, as another poster pointed out above, these attitudes have permeated the culture of the league now, and the sport itself is suffering badly.

smith&wesson
10-19-2011, 12:43 PM
i think dallas vs miami was a good example of the two types of teams that the nba has today. the team with a few great stars and a bunch of average to below average players around them. and the team thats really built on depth.


to answer the op's question. i care because i only really watch the nba out of all the majore leagues. i love basketball. ill still watch ncaa but ill miss the nba if its not on.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm sorry but you are NOT A FAN, if you say you couldn't care less about a sport. Even after a lock out.

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 01:32 PM
You're apparently content with deflecting my post with the stock responses to criticism of your team. Fair enough. But that isn't really what my post was about. My post is about the absolute lack of personal responsibility and competitiveness in many of the biggest stars. The league actually created its own monster by overhyping a generation of second tier superstars to fill the void when MJ left. Now they and the diehard fan who has grown up passionate about the game have to endure the massive egos they've created. Never before have superstars like Melo, Amare, Bosh, CP3, LBJ, and DHoward wanted to bail on their own teams like this generation does. Yes, that is the opposite of a team sport. Ask Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Hakeem, Drexler, Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc, etc what "team" means and you will get a very different answer. Part of the problem has been the way the NBA decided to market its starts about 10-12 years ago, focusing on superstars instead of the sport itself, and part of the problem is the flawed previous CBA which gave license to players and agents to put themselves before the team. I don't buy the twisted logic that says that players with no loyalty or commitment to the team are actually team players because they pick the easiest route to a ring, a "super team". lol. But don't make it all about the Heat, as another poster pointed out above, these attitudes have permeated the culture of the league now, and the sport itself is suffering badly.

The marketing of players didn't begin 10-12 years ago. It began in the 80's with Magic and Bird. That's when the ratings soared. People tuned in to see them, not so much their teams that had already won a bunch of championships. They did the same thing with Jordan in the 90's. Face it, the NBA has NEVER been a league of parity and now all of a sudden that's a problem all these years later? And yeah, those guys you mentioned might have a different definition of team, but the difference is theirs were always stacked.

THE GIPPER
10-19-2011, 01:47 PM
More than the casual fan is losing interest in this league, and, no, last year was not a great year by historical NBA standards. Yes, there were some very exciting teams and yes, the super teams go against everything that sport and competition stand for. It's the sporting equivalent of collusion, but it's actually worse than that. No sport should be driven by boys that want to play with each other; it should be driven by men who want to compete AGAINST each other. And I completely agree that last year, watching LBJ and DWade play with Bosh was 2 iso games and 1 fizzle. Give us back the team sport please. I have zero interest in watching two slashers dominate the ball all night. It is brutal to watch. I do agree though that the Bulls, Lakers, and OKC were exciting to watch, but not enough to offset the culture of greed that now completely dominates the league and the league's biggest stars.

Am I a diehard fan? Yes. And that's absolutely why, for the sake of the game, I'd be happy watching NCAA for at least a season if not more, to appreciate the actual game of basketball. At least there the stars don't work out behind the scene deals with their BFFs so they can play together when they can't win alone. lol.

100% agree

C_Mund
10-19-2011, 02:11 PM
The marketing of players didn't begin 10-12 years ago. It began in the 80's with Magic and Bird. That's when the ratings soared. People tuned in to see them, not so much their teams that had already won a bunch of championships. They did the same thing with Jordan in the 90's. Face it, the NBA has NEVER been a league of parity and now all of a sudden that's a problem all these years later? And yeah, those guys you mentioned might have a different definition of team, but the difference is theirs were always stacked.

True....but they were stacked because of great decisions made by management, not because of where free agents decided to sign. The biggest point that Ink was trying to make was that we're in a space and time of basketball where players (and, maybe more so, agents) have all together too much power. They fight for huge, if, undeserved, contracts for middle-of-the-road players, and they've found flaws in the then-existing cba to allow their players to determine where they'll be traded. This isn't just a problem of Carmelo Anthony being on one poster too many, it's about the fact that everybody knew he wanted to go to New York and if his team decided that they wanted anything in return they had to send him there. That ruins the whole spirit of free-agency to the point that they should just call it "agency."

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 02:59 PM
True....but they were stacked because of great decisions made by management, not because of where free agents decided to sign. The biggest point that Ink was trying to make was that we're in a space and time of basketball where players (and, maybe more so, agents) have all together too much power. They fight for huge, if, undeserved, contracts for middle-of-the-road players, and they've found flaws in the then-existing cba to allow their players to determine where they'll be traded. This isn't just a problem of Carmelo Anthony being on one poster too many, it's about the fact that everybody knew he wanted to go to New York and if his team decided that they wanted anything in return they had to send him there. That ruins the whole spirit of free-agency to the point that they should just call it "agency."

I refuse to believe that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh suddenly had the bright idea of talking with their friends about joining a certain team. It's done in all leagues. And maybe the agents do have power, but it's the owners that agree to these deals. Also, the gms of the 80's did make wise decisions, but let's not overlook the fact that the majority of those teams played in desirable markets/cities.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 03:13 PM
You're apparently content with deflecting my post with the stock responses to criticism of your team. Fair enough. But that isn't really what my post was about. My post is about the absolute lack of personal responsibility and competitiveness in many of the biggest stars. The league actually created its own monster by overhyping a generation of second tier superstars to fill the void when MJ left. Now they and the diehard fan who has grown up passionate about the game have to endure the massive egos they've created. Never before have superstars like Melo, Amare, Bosh, CP3, LBJ, and DHoward wanted to bail on their own teams like this generation does. Yes, that is the opposite of a team sport. Ask Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, Hakeem, Drexler, Bird, Magic, Kareem, etc, etc what "team" means and you will get a very different answer. Part of the problem has been the way the NBA decided to market its starts about 10-12 years ago, focusing on superstars instead of the sport itself, and part of the problem is the flawed previous CBA which gave license to players and agents to put themselves before the team. I don't buy the twisted logic that says that players with no loyalty or commitment to the team are actually team players because they pick the easiest route to a ring, a "super team". lol. But don't make it all about the Heat, as another poster pointed out above, these attitudes have permeated the culture of the league now, and the sport itself is suffering badly.

First of all Kareem started out with the Bucks so his name should be taken out. All those other players teams were able to acquire the talent needed to win titles.

As far as Durant let's see if his option rolls around and the Thunders are regressing we'll see if he stay's in OKC.

Once again you can't judge guys based off of rings then complain when those players try to put themselves in the best position to win them.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 03:28 PM
Parity is always good for sports. Sure you can do it marketing marque teams and players, but that is a very limited approach. Given ever fan the notion that every year their team can contend will go along way in gaining/keeping fans of all interest involved year round.

You can only have so many marque match-ups a year. If you have a evenly competitive league more games are worth watching which means higher ratings which leads to more advertising revenue. Yeah it's easy to sell people the hand full of the Kobe vs. Wade, LeBron vs Melo or Rose vs Williams. The problem is those match ups only happen so often.

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 03:59 PM
Parity is always good for sports. Sure you can do it marketing marque teams and players, but that is a very limited approach. Given ever fan the notion that every year their team can contend will go along way in gaining/keeping fans of all interest involved year round.

You can only have so many marque match-ups a year. If you have a evenly competitive league more games are worth watching which means higher ratings which leads to more advertising revenue. Yeah it's easy to sell people the hand full of the Kobe vs. Wade, LeBron vs Melo or Rose vs Williams. The problem is those match ups only happen so often.

Parity is good, but the problem is that this is the sport where one player can have a huge impact unlike any of the four majors. They can't do it by themselves, obviously, but they more than likely will wanna go to the teams and cities where they can make the most money (big markets).

ink
10-19-2011, 04:16 PM
First of all Kareem started out with the Bucks so his name should be taken out. All those other players teams were able to acquire the talent needed to win titles.

As far as Durant let's see if his option rolls around and the Thunders are regressing we'll see if he stay's in OKC.

Once again you can't judge guys based off of rings then complain when those players try to put themselves in the best position to win them.

That's one of the biggest reasons I never judge players on the number of rings they wear.

OlivaThor
10-19-2011, 06:08 PM
I care, my life is different, I need wake up and check up highlites, stories and statistics.. I need it!!

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 06:18 PM
Parity is good, but the problem is that this is the sport where one player can have a huge impact unlike any of the four majors. They can't do it by themselves, obviously, but they more than likely will wanna go to the teams and cities where they can make the most money (big markets).

A hard/flex cap will correct this.

Big markets aren't the end all be all for endorsements like it use to be anymore. When you add in the cost of living in most large markets the financial gap is much closer than the early 90's.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 06:19 PM
That's one of the biggest reasons I never judge players on the number of rings they wear.

I don't understand how the old school greats are being praised for staying on teams that were championship level in the prime of their careers.

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 07:12 PM
A hard/flex cap will correct this.

Big markets aren't the end all be all for endorsements like it use to be anymore. When you add in the cost of living in most large markets the financial gap is much closer than the early 90's.

I don't think that will create parity. It's still likely gonna be just 3 or 4 true title contenders and then everybody else. Only difference is maybe it could help a non-traditional markets win.

Russollini
10-19-2011, 07:22 PM
In regards to your last statement. The nba is definitely playing with fire, and coming off such an amazing year... its hard to believe there arent enough smart business people in that room to be pushing like crazy to make a deal. In this economy where there is over 4 billion dollars to be made... its really sad that these guys cant figure it out.

Also- I think its great news that the cities that have fionanced the arenas for these teams are threatening a lawsuite. These guys want the support of their cities.... then its not unreasonable for the city to expect them to do their share. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who work at arenas or work at businesses around arenas that depend on the traffic of these games to make a living in this economy.

I know both sides like to sit there and blame the other side, but the truth is- the people in that negotiating room are the only people ont he planet who have the ability to solve this problem.

In regards to the following many teams.....

I was a kid. I was born in 77 so you follow the teams you see at that point. My dad was a Knick fan and I grew up in South Florida. I liked Detroit because they were fun to watch. That actually proves a bit of a point though. I liked several teams because I loved the game. I still do and I miss those days. Showtime was fun, the Cs were unbelievable. Magic though was nothing without Worthy, et al. The point is they were teams and they were fun. I watched whatever game was on, TV was different back then and you did not have access. The Heat were not around at that point.

If the casual fan does not return, the arenas will not be full, people will not watch and the revenue will go down. Estimates at this point state that if the lockout goes on for a full year it will take till 2023 to recoup the lost funds. It is pointless.

Russollini
10-19-2011, 07:25 PM
True....but they were stacked because of great decisions made by management, not because of where free agents decided to sign. The biggest point that Ink was trying to make was that we're in a space and time of basketball where players (and, maybe more so, agents) have all together too much power. They fight for huge, if, undeserved, contracts for middle-of-the-road players, and they've found flaws in the then-existing cba to allow their players to determine where they'll be traded. This isn't just a problem of Carmelo Anthony being on one poster too many, it's about the fact that everybody knew he wanted to go to New York and if his team decided that they wanted anything in return they had to send him there. That ruins the whole spirit of free-agency to the point that they should just call it "agency."

Exactly, but they also had great teams. Yes Bird and Magic would make things happen on their own, take over a game, but they had a TON of other players involved in their championships. The Pistons had some great players, but they were a team. The whole team mattered and everyone played an essential role to their winning. Teams hated each other back then too. This even happened into the 90s with the Knicks, Heat, Bulls, Pacers, Pistons, Jazz, etc. There was no love at all.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 07:36 PM
I don't think that will create parity. It's still likely gonna be just 3 or 4 true title contenders and then everybody else. Only difference is maybe it could help a non-traditional markets win.

Kobe is on the books next year for 25million dollars, Gasol 18 million, Bynum 15 million. That's 58 million next year just on 3 players. If we ended up with a set limit of 65 million you think the Lakers will be competing for a title next year with 7 million to split among 9 players? You think Howard or Paul would go to the Lakers and play for under the league minimal?

netsgiantsyanks
10-19-2011, 07:42 PM
why do i care?

i want to see nba basketball, a 8 year old could of came up with that conclusion

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 07:50 PM
Kobe is on the books next year for 25million dollars, Gasol 18 million, Bynum 15 million. That's 58 million next year just on 3 players. If we ended up with a set limit of 65 million you think the Lakers will be competing for a title next year with 7 million to split among 9 players? You think Howard or Paul would go to the Lakers and play for under the league minimal?

Like I said, only 3 or 4 true title contenders. Difference is that those 3 or 4 could all be in small markets. Still no parity.

SportsAndrew25
10-19-2011, 08:02 PM
We care because we just saw one of the best seasons in NBA history and we do not want to lose this one.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 08:12 PM
Like I said, only 3 or 4 true title contenders. Difference is that those 3 or 4 could all be in small markets. Still no parity.

That's not true. All the talent has to go some where which will create more parity. The league will become more about team chemistry and less about "superteams".

Big Zo
10-19-2011, 09:11 PM
That's not true. All the talent has to go some where which will create more parity. The league will become more about team chemistry and less about "superteams".

This isn't just a star driven league, It's a star driven sport. All the teams that are actual championship contenders or on the cusp, have at least one guy that's considered a top 10 player in the game. Problem is there's only so many of those around. It can prevent superteams, and help small market teams keep their star, but no parity when it comes to actual title contenders.

da ThRONe
10-19-2011, 09:25 PM
This isn't just a star driven league, It's a star driven sport. All the teams that are actual championship contenders or on the cusp, have at least one guy that's considered a top 10 player in the game. Problem is there's only so many of those around. It can prevent superteams, and help small market teams keep their star, but no parity when it comes to actual title contenders.

I strongly disagree. Less talent on one team means more talent on other team. Stars have bad games or coaches come up with timely adjustments to slow down stars. Jordan is the GOAT, but has zero titles without Pippen. No star wins without atleast another star or a great supporting cast or all the above. A salary cap would cut into teams being able to acquire every piece by simply opening up their wallets.

whitemamba33
10-19-2011, 10:09 PM
As a fan, I want parity. I want to see championships built, not bought.

It has all just become a little too predictable.

NYMetros
10-19-2011, 10:14 PM
I don't understand the point of this thread. We care because we like basketball. You obviously do not, lol.

Russollini
10-19-2011, 10:33 PM
I don't understand the point of this thread. We care because we like basketball. You obviously do not, lol.

No that is not true. I love basketball, and I play whenever I get the chance. I used to play 4-5 hours a night growing up. It was a part of my life. The issue is the NBA is not what it used to be and it is not the same game. No touching, no passion, the players are all friends and they give up in big games. It is now an ISO game and not a team sport.

I love basketball. My family has had season tickets to the Heat since the year they moved to the new arena. It is just not the same game anymore. They have lost there way, and my question is valid. I missed Basketball long before the lockout and will most likely miss it long after it comes back. The lockout simply amplified all the reasons I have lost that loving feeling. It showed me I can go on without it. The fact that 2 years ago I could not watch the playoffs because they were on NBATV was absolutely ludicrous. How is that about the fan? How does that promote the game? It is about the superstar and the money, period. Baseball and Football can fill the void. I can watch NCAA basketball which is still a team sport. I can got other places to get my fill. I have liked the NBA for years now out of habit, not basketball mind you, but the NBA. I am tired of seeing teams like the Clips and Bucks get kicked around. I am tired of one superstar taking over and not passing the ball. I want the gritty team sport I grew up on and it does not exist at the pro level anymore. Fans have been screaming this for years, no one hears us, we just take it for what it is, but now that it is gone, the question is why do we really care, why do we want it back in its current state, fans deserve better.

whitemamba33
10-19-2011, 10:53 PM
No that is not true. I love basketball, and I play whenever I get the chance. I used to play 4-5 hours a night growing up. It was a part of my life. The issue is the NBA is not what it used to be and it is not the same game. No touching, no passion, the players are all friends and they give up in big games. It is now an ISO game and not a team sport.

I love basketball. My family has had season tickets to the Heat since the year they moved to the new arena. It is just not the same game anymore. They have lost there way, and my question is valid. I missed Basketball long before the lockout and will most likely miss it long after it comes back. The lockout simply amplified all the reasons I have lost that loving feeling. It showed me I can go on without it. The fact that 2 years ago I could not watch the playoffs because they were on NBATV was absolutely ludicrous. How is that about the fan? How does that promote the game? It is about the superstar and the money, period. Baseball and Football can fill the void. I can watch NCAA basketball which is still a team sport. I can got other places to get my fill. I have liked the NBA for years now out of habit, not basketball mind you, but the NBA. I am tired of seeing teams like the Clips and Bucks get kicked around. I am tired of one superstar taking over and not passing the ball. I want the gritty team sport I grew up on and it does not exist at the pro level anymore. Fans have been screaming this for years, no one hears us, we just take it for what it is, but now that it is gone, the question is why do we really care, why do we want it back in its current state, fans deserve better.

Well..now that you've explained this thread, my response is: Who cares?

Your post would make a great blog. Somewhere that you can post your personal opinions and feelings so that people who care about them can read them. For a lot of people, baseball and football are not suitable replacements. A lot of people like the current product. A lot of people had access to the playoffs a few years ago. A lot of people miss basketball and just want it back. It's fine if you don't agree...but you come off as expecting everyone to feel the same way that you do, and I hate to tell you, but I don't think many people do.

NYMetros
10-19-2011, 10:56 PM
No that is not true. I love basketball, and I play whenever I get the chance. I used to play 4-5 hours a night growing up. It was a part of my life. The issue is the NBA is not what it used to be and it is not the same game. No touching, no passion, the players are all friends and they give up in big games. It is now an ISO game and not a team sport.

I love basketball. My family has had season tickets to the Heat since the year they moved to the new arena. It is just not the same game anymore. They have lost there way, and my question is valid. I missed Basketball long before the lockout and will most likely miss it long after it comes back. The lockout simply amplified all the reasons I have lost that loving feeling. It showed me I can go on without it. The fact that 2 years ago I could not watch the playoffs because they were on NBATV was absolutely ludicrous. How is that about the fan? How does that promote the game? It is about the superstar and the money, period. Baseball and Football can fill the void. I can watch NCAA basketball which is still a team sport. I can got other places to get my fill. I have liked the NBA for years now out of habit, not basketball mind you, but the NBA. I am tired of seeing teams like the Clips and Bucks get kicked around. I am tired of one superstar taking over and not passing the ball. I want the gritty team sport I grew up on and it does not exist at the pro level anymore. Fans have been screaming this for years, no one hears us, we just take it for what it is, but now that it is gone, the question is why do we really care, why do we want it back in its current state, fans deserve better.

OK, I understand a lot more where you're coming from now. It's not perfect, maybe not what it used to be, but are you really indifferent about having a season or not? I thought last year was pretty good personally. I get how you want more team-ball and more parity.

I see where you're coming from though because I actually feel the same way about the NFL. The sport is almost unrecognizable to me now with the lack of defense in the game. Refs call pass interference or roughing the QB on everything, defenses can't stop anyone, noboby runs the ball anymore, it's a lot worse IMO. The sport is more popular than ever though and fans love the passing so I guess it's not changing any time soon. So I'm starting to lose interest in it.

Slimsim
10-19-2011, 11:01 PM
Basketball is all I have really. Since the lookout my depression get Worse everyday. Real talk for anyone wanting to troll

ink
10-20-2011, 12:32 AM
No that is not true. I love basketball, and I play whenever I get the chance. I used to play 4-5 hours a night growing up. It was a part of my life. The issue is the NBA is not what it used to be and it is not the same game. No touching, no passion, the players are all friends and they give up in big games. It is now an ISO game and not a team sport.

I love basketball. My family has had season tickets to the Heat since the year they moved to the new arena. It is just not the same game anymore. They have lost there way, and my question is valid. I missed Basketball long before the lockout and will most likely miss it long after it comes back. The lockout simply amplified all the reasons I have lost that loving feeling. It showed me I can go on without it. The fact that 2 years ago I could not watch the playoffs because they were on NBATV was absolutely ludicrous. How is that about the fan? How does that promote the game? It is about the superstar and the money, period. Baseball and Football can fill the void. I can watch NCAA basketball which is still a team sport. I can got other places to get my fill. I have liked the NBA for years now out of habit, not basketball mind you, but the NBA. I am tired of seeing teams like the Clips and Bucks get kicked around. I am tired of one superstar taking over and not passing the ball. I want the gritty team sport I grew up on and it does not exist at the pro level anymore. Fans have been screaming this for years, no one hears us, we just take it for what it is, but now that it is gone, the question is why do we really care, why do we want it back in its current state, fans deserve better.

Completely agree. It's not because you don't love basketball that you don't care. It's because you actually give a damn about the sport. When you mentioned players giving up in big games I totally agreed. There is no way that anyone before Kobe or Lebron would have given up in a championship series. I'm not hating; I just can't remember ever seeing any other athletes (actually in any sport) giving up like that while the clock was still running in a championship game. Basketball is supposed to be Willis Reed fighting through injury, not Paul Pierce or Vince Carter crying out for a wheelchair. When the character players re-surface, we will have our sport back. Until then we will have pampered millionaires whining about their raises and crying because they can't build super teams and can't get sponsorship deals in major cities.

Russollini
10-22-2011, 01:17 AM
OK, I understand a lot more where you're coming from now. It's not perfect, maybe not what it used to be, but are you really indifferent about having a season or not? I thought last year was pretty good personally. I get how you want more team-ball and more parity.

I see where you're coming from though because I actually feel the same way about the NFL. The sport is almost unrecognizable to me now with the lack of defense in the game. Refs call pass interference or roughing the QB on everything, defenses can't stop anyone, noboby runs the ball anymore, it's a lot worse IMO. The sport is more popular than ever though and fans love the passing so I guess it's not changing any time soon. So I'm starting to lose interest in it.

Exactly, my interest was already starting to fade, and then this. It is the straw that broke the camels back. I would love to see LBJ take a hard elbow coming through the lane, and I am a Heat fan. I want to see everything left on the court, and it just is not there.


Completely agree. It's not because you don't love basketball that you don't care. It's because you actually give a damn about the sport. When you mentioned players giving up in big games I totally agreed. There is no way that anyone before Kobe or Lebron would have given up in a championship series. I'm not hating; I just can't remember ever seeing any other athletes (actually in any sport) giving up like that while the clock was still running in a championship game. Basketball is supposed to be Willis Reed fighting through injury, not Paul Pierce or Vince Carter crying out for a wheelchair. When the character players re-surface, we will have our sport back. Until then we will have pampered millionaires whining about their raises and crying because they can't build super teams and can't get sponsorship deals in major cities.

I could not have said it better. I love the game in its true form. It is funny that when are guys go overseas, they struggle. They do not know how to play physically anymore. There is no way anyone should be able to run through a clear lane and dunk the ball untouched. They should have an elbow in their throat, a hand check, something. The game has changed, they have taken the competitiveness out of nearly every play. Could you imagine MJ playing today?? He would be out of this world. He would have never had to develop a fade away as he could simply run and jump over everyone, untouched. Guys like Malone, Ewing, the Doc, etc played with heart, hustle and blood. Today we play with endorsements and open lanes. That is where the original question came from, are we missing the old days of true B-Ball, or are we missing this season? In all honestly it was like a slap in the face, a wake up call. One morning I woke up and said to myself "Why do I really care?" I have not liked the actual game play in years. Yes, this season was fun, but was it really BBall, where was the heart?