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Bruno
10-17-2011, 05:31 PM
10. Blake Griffin- 8.78
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113335/nba-player-rankings-10

9. Deron Williams- 8.98
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113286/nba-player-rankings-9

8. Derrick Rose- 9.27
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113439/nba-player-rankings-8

7. Kobe Bryant- 9.40
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113521/nba-player-rankings-7

6. Kevin Durant- 9.62
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113666/nba-player-rankings-6

5. Dirk Nowitzki- 9.67
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116700/nba-player-rankings-5

4. Chris Paul- 9.68
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116865/nba-player-rankings-4

3. Dwyane Wade- 9.72
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116899/nba-player-rankings-3

2. Dwight Howard- 9.82
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116954/nba-player-rankings-2

1. LeBron James- 9.91
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116977/nba-player-rankings-1

juno10
10-17-2011, 05:37 PM
lebron
howard
wade
paul
dirk

NYKalltheway
10-17-2011, 05:37 PM
i'd say cp3 #5, howard #4, wade #3, dirk #2 and lebron #1

Bruno
10-17-2011, 05:39 PM
PSD also put Williams at #9 and Rose and #8:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655051

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-17-2011, 05:41 PM
Wow, Blake's overrated.

Da Knicks
10-17-2011, 05:45 PM
Wow, Blake's overrated.

x10

naps
10-17-2011, 05:47 PM
I like the top 10 list except BG. I think it's too early to name someone in the top 10 after his rookie year. I have always had LeBron-Wade-Howard-CP3 in my top 5. Rose, Kobe, Deron are perfectly placed as well.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-17-2011, 05:47 PM
lmfao at blake griffin on top10

Cal827
10-17-2011, 05:49 PM
Blake in the top 10 already? Really ESPN?

da ThRONe
10-17-2011, 05:50 PM
As special as Griffin is him being in the top 10 completely voids this whole list.

The_Jamal
10-17-2011, 05:55 PM
****ing christ, BG is not a top 10 player

The_Jamal
10-17-2011, 05:55 PM
they got the rest of the 9 right though

Ebbs
10-17-2011, 05:58 PM
I think they have the right 5 in the top 5 Also like the order of the top 10 aside from Griffing being there.

airronijordan
10-17-2011, 06:03 PM
Blake Griffin doesn't deserve to be on that list...and I have 1)Dirk 2)Wade 3)Lebron 4)Howard 5)CP3 - my rankings....i expect espn to put lebron as the #1 player as usual

Slimsim
10-17-2011, 06:04 PM
Look good to me just switch griffin with melo

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-17-2011, 06:14 PM
Look good to me just switch griffin with melo

more like griffin with gasol

Voodoo Alchemy
10-17-2011, 06:16 PM
lebron
howard
wade
paul
dirk

wow, lebron is way overrated considering he didn't even play in the finals. dirk should be #1, the man has the hardware to prove it.

da ThRONe
10-17-2011, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't even put Dirk in my top 5.

With the 5 left I would go

5. Nowitzki
4. Wade
3. Howard
2. Paul
1. James

Soxsnation4life
10-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Kobe is NOT too high. It's 2011, not 2006

Soxsnation4life
10-17-2011, 06:45 PM
Chris Paul is really overrated in my opinion. They will probably continue to overrated and put him ahead of Wade. Just watch. How can you justify putting him ahead of Kobe, durant, etc.

Klivlend
10-17-2011, 06:45 PM
wow, lebron is way overrated considering he didn't even play in the finals. dirk should be #1, the man has the hardware to prove it.

omfg, someone with 3,300+ posts makes comments like this?

GhostfaceDrilla
10-17-2011, 06:50 PM
I wouldn't even put Dirk in my top 5.

With the 5 left I would go

5. Nowitzki
4. Wade
3. Howard
2. Paul
1. James

Why would you not have Dirk in your top 5? Chris Paul #2 is laughable. Dirk is better than Paul. Dirk should be #4 or #3.

da ThRONe
10-17-2011, 06:57 PM
Why would you not have Dirk in your top 5? Chris Paul #2 is laughable. Dirk is better than Paul. Dirk should be #4 or #3.

Because I'm not a prisoner of the moment. Dirk is a top 10 player, but not a top 5 IMO.

As far as Paul he was the best PG and top 5 player in his 1st year back from major knee surgery. I think he's the best leader in basketball and has the most positive affect on his teammates. If I were to pick a player to build my team around after LeBron it would be CP3.

Avenged
10-17-2011, 06:58 PM
I like the Kobe/Rose/Deron order. Personally I would have added Pau or Amare instead of Blake, and moved Deron to #10.

As far as the top 5 go, I think ESPN will go with

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Dirk
4. Dwight
5. Chris Paul

I would put them

1. Dwight/Lebron
2. Dwight/ Lebron
3. Chris Paul
4. Wade
5. Dirk.

lavilevi23
10-17-2011, 07:25 PM
Kobe>Dirk

strahan92osi72
10-17-2011, 07:34 PM
Chris Paul is really overrated in my opinion. They will probably continue to overrated and put him ahead of Wade. Just watch. How can you justify putting him ahead of Kobe, durant, etc.

Chris Paul is a superstar, but I don't think he's quite as good as Wade. Don't worry, if he goes to the Knicks his rating will dramatically drop, see Melo.

Hawkeye15
10-17-2011, 07:41 PM
been following this a while. Blake is 10 spots too high for THIS YEAR

Yanks All Day
10-17-2011, 07:50 PM
Like someone above me said, ESPN will probably go:

LeBron
Wade
Dirk
Howard
Paul

I'd put the remaining 5:

LeBron (Easily the best player in basketball)
Howard (Marked improvements on O, still the best on D)
Wade (Better scorer than LBJ and D12, but doesn't D-up nearly as well)
Dirk (Ok, I get he had a magical playoff run and a great regular season, but top 3? No.)
Paul (Injuries usually slow him down, but when he's healthy, the man's a machine at the PG. Incredible to watch.)

Hawkeye15
10-17-2011, 07:51 PM
Chris Paul is really overrated in my opinion. They will probably continue to overrated and put him ahead of Wade. Just watch. How can you justify putting him ahead of Kobe, durant, etc.

Because Paul is a better player? Look at what Paul's roster looks like. Its pathetic. He has the least help of any superstar by a mile.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=paulch01&y2=2011&p3=duranke01&y3=2011&p4=nowitdi01&y4=2011&p5=rosede01&y5=2011&p6=wadedw01&y6=2011

I listed Kobe, Paul, Durant, Nowitzki, Rose, and Wade. Paul is:
2nd in PER
1st in Off Rtg (by a mile)
2nd in win shares
1st in Asst%
1st in WS/48

a better defender than Durant, Nowitzki, Rose
a better distributor than Rose

If you give CP3 one more star, just ONE, they are deep in the playoffs for the next few years.

He absolutely is a top 5 NBA player.

Hawkeye15
10-17-2011, 07:52 PM
IMHO

5. Nowitzki
4. Paul
3. Wade
2. Dwight
1. LeBron

daleja424
10-17-2011, 07:52 PM
I think Chris Paul is next, then Dirk, then tossup with the last three (except I can't imagine Wade getting the top spot)

Hawkeye15
10-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Chris Paul is a superstar, but I don't think he's quite as good as Wade. Don't worry, if he goes to the Knicks his rating will dramatically drop, see Melo.

that is bs. Melo may take more heat with the Knicks, but that is because his list of homers on this site multiplied by 200 when he switched teams.

Melo is a #10-12 player. Was 2 years ago, is now.

Bruno
10-17-2011, 08:10 PM
Based off last season, Blake is ranked too high.

But I think the voters voted as they see the players falling at the end of next year. After the Clippers crack the playoffs, and Blake finishes top 5 in MVP voting we'll look back on this thread and say "good lookin' out ESPN".

Hawkeye15
10-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Based off last season, Blake is ranked too high.

But I think the voters voted as they see the players falling at the end of next year. After the Clippers crack the playoffs, and Blake finishes top 5 in MVP voting we'll look back on this thread and say "good lookin' out ESPN".

They need to make it clear how they vote then. Because all they said was they are voting on that player today, with an average ranking system 1-10, and compile the accumulative results.

Blake is too high. Again, for now. He needs to be down around #20 or so.

Soxsnation4life
10-17-2011, 08:15 PM
I personally think the ESPN rankings sucked and were very flawed but they seem to have gotten the top 5 right. It remains to be seen what order they put them in but it sounds good.
Lebron
howard
Wade
Dirk
paul
That's some team....

Soxsnation4life
10-17-2011, 08:16 PM
Blake is mediocre at best on defense, has no range, not much post moves. He's a highlight reel on a 50 loss team.

NBA-GMaster
10-17-2011, 09:00 PM
LeBron
Howard
Wade
Dirk
Paul

I think Gasol or Melo should replace Griffin in top 10..
KD should be top 4 or 5..

Bruno
10-17-2011, 09:14 PM
They need to make it clear how they vote then. Because all they said was they are voting on that player today, with an average ranking system 1-10, and compile the accumulative results.

Blake is too high. Again, for now. He needs to be down around #20 or so.

They do. I think a lot of those voters voted with the intention of looking like master predictors come playoffs 2012. Based off last season alone, he should be top 20, not top 10.

BranWingss
10-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Melo/Nash/Gasol
Williams
Rose
Kobe
Durant
Paul
Wade
Howard
Dirk
LeBron

allSUAVE
10-17-2011, 09:56 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/carmeloanthony/status/124946226528530434

Melo Feels some type of way, im happy he does.

Bruno
10-17-2011, 10:55 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/carmeloanthony/status/124946226528530434

Melo Feels some type of way, im happy he does.

It's cool that he's using it as motivation.

PurpleJesus28
10-17-2011, 11:04 PM
Blake is mediocre at best on defense, has no range, not much post moves. He's a highlight reel on a 50 loss team.

very well said.

rose at #8 works for me, durant at #6 seems a little too high to me for some reason, but i think its a good spot for him too.

Bruno
10-18-2011, 12:27 AM
very well said.

rose at #8 works for me, durant at #6 seems a little too high to me for some reason, but i think its a good spot for him too.

KD's defense is mediocre, and his assist to turn-over ratio is crap but he's a very special scorer. People are willing to forgive the less flattering aspects of a players game when they can score with such ease, while coming off a great playoff run. He's also on a fun and exciting team which gives him bonus points.

RealistRocket34
10-18-2011, 12:53 AM
Dirk or LeBron will be 1st. Would any of you really be surprised if Dirk wins? I'm expecting LeBron to win since all the nerd formula loser analysts like John Hollinger are in voting but Dirk may be #1 just for winning his team the championship

5ass
10-18-2011, 12:56 AM
for me its
1.lebron
2.howard
3.wade
4.paul
5.nowitzki
6.kobe
7.durant
8.rose
9.williams
10.melo

ESPN is trying to hype up blake griffin, he's not yet top 10. Next year he could enter the
competition for top 5 IMO.

PurpleJesus
10-18-2011, 01:01 AM
Blake Griffin top ten? I dunno about that

JJ_JKidd
10-18-2011, 01:11 AM
10. Blake Griffin- 8.78
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113335/nba-player-rankings-10

9. Deron Williams- 8.98
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113286/nba-player-rankings-9

8. Derrick Rose- 9.27
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113439/nba-player-rankings-8

7. Kobe Bryant- 9.40
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113521/nba-player-rankings-7

6. Kevin Durant- 9.62
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113666/nba-player-rankings-6

Left on the board: James/Wade/Howard/Paul/Dirk

How will ESPN rank these guys?

King Jameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees! :facepalm:

Cano4prez
10-18-2011, 06:11 AM
:laugh: ESPN has officially decided to dickride Griffin for the next 5-10 years

basketfan4life
10-18-2011, 10:40 AM
if lebron and wade are the first and second best players in the league(some say lebron is easily the best) while they have one of the top 15 players in chris bosh, its soooo od for me them not winning it all...wtf is wrong with these per and ws?

pebloemer
10-18-2011, 11:03 AM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5. Paul

That's how I think it will go.

3mikee_
10-18-2011, 11:04 AM
When I saw Blake at 10 .. this ranking turned into a joke. Kobe at 7 is pretty ridiculous as well.

3mikee_
10-18-2011, 11:05 AM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5. Paul

That's how I think it will go.

Agree with this..

ShakeN'Bake
10-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Wow, Blake's overrated.

Yup. NBA where hype happens.

Soxsnation4life
10-18-2011, 11:25 AM
Lebron
Howard
Wade
Paul
Dirk
That's how it'll go. paul is way overrated

sixer04fan
10-18-2011, 11:36 AM
Lebron, Howard, Wade, Dirk, Paul

Ebbs
10-18-2011, 11:40 AM
#5 Dirk - 9.67 ranking

Da Knicks
10-18-2011, 11:55 AM
Blake not a top 10 yet, Melo, Stat, Manu, Randolph, Nash are still better players and Bosh and L.A. from the blazers are still neck and neck with him.

Soxsnation4life
10-18-2011, 12:23 PM
go to Chris Paul on basketballreference.com. Go to the game finder. I was flabbergasted how many stinker games he had last season. WAY too much to be number 4 in the NBA. He had 15 games in single digits. alot o them while shooting awful. In fact he had 2 0-for games

mlisica19
10-18-2011, 12:46 PM
LeBron James better be #5. Heck, I hate the guys attitude and personality and persona. But ill admit hes the most athletic and most talented basketball player out there. Hes just got the wrong attitude. Decisions define a man, and his decisions on and off the court just make him seem less of a man every day.

Champions prepare 24/7 for every game, every year. LeBron just seems like hes living in the limelight, loving his rockstar life. Thinks hes a Demi-god and plays off his skill and talent. Hes going to learn the hard way that the best things in life are not free, it does not come easy.

I also cant believe the guy worked mostly with Hakeem O this summer. The guy needs help in his shooting. Not his downlow game, I am sure it helped but the team needs him to be the go to guy in the 4th quarter up high... As a SF why are you focusing your time mostly on a downlow game. Chris Bosh was brought in for this purpose...

Evolution23
10-18-2011, 01:22 PM
more like griffin with gasol

More like griffin with Amare

Evolution23
10-18-2011, 01:23 PM
ESPN ranks players on their ability to dunk and look cool.

Hawkeye15
10-18-2011, 02:28 PM
IMHO

5. Nowitzki
4. Paul
3. Wade
2. Dwight
1. LeBron

looks like espn agreed with me haha

Hawkeye15
10-18-2011, 02:29 PM
for me its
1.lebron
2.howard
3.wade
4.paul
5.nowitzki
6.kobe
7.durant
8.rose
9.williams
10.melo

ESPN is trying to hype up blake griffin, he's not yet top 10. Next year he could enter the
competition for top 5 IMO.


This would be mine too. But I honestly have no issue with Kobe and Durant where they are. The Blake pick makes me scratch my head however

daleja424
10-18-2011, 03:39 PM
I wish the scaling would have been history based...

Like 10= MJ (GOAT)
9= Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird (legend)
8= HoFer
7= NBA all-star
6= above average but not quite an all-star
5= average NBA starter (or elite 6th man)
4= promising upside, but not quite average yet
3= below average, not trending up
2= bench warmer
1=Brian Scalabrine (WOAT)

GhostfaceDrilla
10-18-2011, 03:57 PM
I wish the scaling would have been history based...

Like 10= MJ (GOAT)
9= Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird (legend)
8= HoFer
7= NBA all-star
6= above average but not quite an all-star
5= average NBA starter (or elite 6th man)
4= promising upside, but not quite average yet
3= below average, not trending up
2= bench warmer
1=Brian Scalabrine (WOAT)

#1 on this list is a better 4th quarter performer than #1 on ESPN's list.

Bruno
10-18-2011, 04:05 PM
Want to point out that there's only a 0.05 difference separating Dirk at #5 and Wade at #3

Bruno
10-18-2011, 04:11 PM
2011 NBA post-season (21 playoff games):

Dirk- PER: 25.2, TS%: .609, WS: 3.6, WS/48: 0.210
LeBron- PER: 23.7, TS%: .563, WS: 3.8, WS/48: 0.199
Wade- PER: 26.3, TS%:.570, WS: 3.7, WS/48: 0.216.

2011 NBA post-season (six playoffgames):
Paul- PER: 28.9, TS%: .670, WS: 1.3, WS/48: 0.242
Howard: PER: 26.1, TS%: .667, WS: 1.3, WS/48: 0.238

2011 Playoffs PER:
1. Chris Paul- 28.9
2. Dwyane Wade- 26.3
3. Dwight Howard- 26.1
4. Dirk Nowitzki- 25.2
5. LeBron James- 23.7

2011 Playoffs TS%:
1. Dwight Howard- .667
2. Chris Paul- .670
3. Dirk Nowitzki- .609
4. Dwyane Wade- .570
5. LeBron James- .563

2011 Playoffs WS:
1. LeBron James- 3.8
2. Dwyane Wade- 3.7
3. Dirk Nowitzki- 3.6
4t. Chris Paul- 1.3
4t. Dwight Howard- 1.3

2011 Playoffs WS/48:
1. Chris Paul- 0.242
2. Dwight Howard- 0.238
3. Dwyane Wade- 0.216
4. Dirk Nowitzki- 0.210
5. LeBron James- 0.199

mjm07
10-18-2011, 04:30 PM
#1 on this list is a better 4th quarter performer than #1 on ESPN's list.

You can have him. I'll stay with Espn's #1.

_KB24_
10-18-2011, 04:43 PM
I have mixed feelings when it comes to this. I just can't come up with an appropriate scale or criteria to measure the "Best Players". Chronz had a great post on this either in this thread or another recent one. I mean do we look at the past and judge from that? Do we just look at the individual talent of a player and ignore everything else? Or do we judge by the most recent play of the individual. I don't know but I agree with the ones who bring up Dirk. The guy just had pulled off something miraculous and is on top of everyone.

juno10
10-18-2011, 05:14 PM
lebron
howard
wade
paul
dirk

i should work for espn

Hawkeye15
10-18-2011, 05:47 PM
i should work for espn



IMHO

5. Nowitzki
4. Paul
3. Wade
2. Dwight
1. LeBron


:hi5:

Hawkeye15
10-18-2011, 05:49 PM
I have mixed feelings when it comes to this. I just can't come up with an appropriate scale or criteria to measure the "Best Players". Chronz had a great post on this either in this thread or another recent one. I mean do we look at the past and judge from that? Do we just look at the individual talent of a player and ignore everything else? Or do we judge by the most recent play of the individual. I don't know but I agree with the ones who bring up Dirk. The guy just had pulled off something miraculous and is on top of everyone.

while you factor in past, these rankings are who is the best player in the NBA today. Dirk being part of the best team doesn't let him hop over 4 players who are better than him.

When we do all time rankings, we now accumulate their career and judge. Kobe is #1 all time in this list. But he isn't a top 5 player anymore individually.

Dade County
10-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Cp3 and Howard have to find away to get on the same team.

In the west preferably.

Underrated Wade
10-18-2011, 10:10 PM
lebron
wade
howard
cp3
durant
kobe
rose
dirk
deron williams
carmelo

Baller1
10-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Durant is a top 5 player.

sixer04fan
10-18-2011, 10:13 PM
I'm sorry but Chris Paul is overrated he is not the 4th best player in the NBA.

KeepMonta#8
10-19-2011, 12:07 AM
I'm sorry but Chris Paul is overrated he is not the 4th best player in the NBA.

no he isnt hes the best point guard in THE NBA, its not always the dunks and the three's that show how a player is.

numba1CHANGsta
10-19-2011, 12:34 AM
its funny how Kobe has more than twice as many rings than all the other 9 players combined! lmao

D Roses Bulls
10-19-2011, 12:54 AM
Jesus people overrate chris paul

raiderNlakerfan
10-19-2011, 01:12 AM
^^ id take cp3 over drose any day

raiderNlakerfan
10-19-2011, 01:13 AM
Cp3 is a better passer, plays better defense. All rose does is score. He isnt a great passer and is a average defender

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 01:24 AM
Cp3 is a better passer, plays better defense. All rose does is score. He isnt a great passer and is a average defender

All Rose does is PWN the entire league, rofl. You must have been asleep last season. Chris Paul was MIA while Rose was beasting and pwning people from Florida to Cali.

raiderNlakerfan
10-19-2011, 01:29 AM
Paul was mia? He played the lakers in the first round and torched us. Hes the best PG in the game. And he has nobody playin with him. The dude is hands down the most complete point in the nba

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 01:34 AM
He was MIA all season, he did nothing and his team did nothing. He torched you? He had a few good games and a few bad games, out in the first round.

Rose was beasting on everybody, he pwnd Dwight, he pwnd Lebron, he pwnd Wade, he single-handedly dismantled the Spurs in a performance that's the equal or greater than anything Paul did all season. he pwnd everybody. How soon people forget.

Statistically CP3 is the best PG in the game, but he didn't play like it last season, and Rose is much more than just a scorer.

an interesting stat to make note of: Every game the hornets won in the first round, Paul took 13 FGA's or more. Every game the Hornets lost, Paul took less than 13 FGA's.

raiderNlakerfan
10-19-2011, 01:45 AM
So jus cause last year he "sucked" hes not the best pg in the game anymore? He owned bron and wade huh? But yet miami won the series.. Rose is great. But isnt god or the best at his position. YET.... hes very young and will be the best pg in the game once he develops his all around game.

raiderNlakerfan
10-19-2011, 01:47 AM
So if dwight has a down year this year he will no longer be the best center in the game according to you.... Thats dumb

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 01:50 AM
I was just talking about the regular season, Rose was pwning everyone constantly (except the pesky Knicks).

It's fine if you think CP3 is the best PG in the NBA, statistically you have a great argument. I took issue with you when you said "Rose is just a scorer".

That's a very diminishing way of putting it considering what that kid managed to do last season. Think about it, he led his team to SWEEP the Heat. That's just one out of a long list of amazing things he managed to do last season.

SportsFanatic10
10-19-2011, 02:26 AM
He was MIA all season, he did nothing and his team did nothing. He torched you? He had a few good games and a few bad games, out in the first round.

Rose was beasting on everybody, he pwnd Dwight, he pwnd Lebron, he pwnd Wade, he single-handedly dismantled the Spurs in a performance that's the equal or greater than anything Paul did all season. he pwnd everybody. How soon people forget.
Statistically CP3 is the best PG in the game, but he didn't play like it last season, and Rose is much more than just a scorer.

an interesting stat to make note of: Every game the hornets won in the first round, Paul took 13 FGA's or more. Every game the Hornets lost, Paul took less than 13 FGA's.

lol what?

SportsFanatic10
10-19-2011, 02:27 AM
1. LeBron
2. Dwight
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5. Paul

That's how I think it will go.

dirk at #3 is a terrible ranking lol. maybe if you're talking about a pure scorer.

5ass
10-19-2011, 02:41 AM
This would be mine too. But I honestly have no issue with Kobe and Durant where they are. The Blake pick makes me scratch my head however

i dont have a problem with kobe and durant being interchanged, i mean you can make a case for durant. I just think kobe is a better player than him, i think durants a bit overrated actually. Many people have him top 5.
and yes the blake pick is stupid amare/gasol/melo/westbrook/love/aldridge? would have been better options..
griffin is NOT the 2nd best PF in the league

mccschamb
10-19-2011, 02:44 AM
All Rose does is PWN the entire league, rofl. You must have been asleep last season. Chris Paul was MIA while Rose was beasting and pwning people from Florida to Cali.

As much as i like derrick rose, i agree with the raider fan. I'd take Chris Paul over Rose. He's a better all-around player and a better point guard.

mccschamb
10-19-2011, 02:45 AM
Where's nickdymez criticizing Lebron? Were his feelings hurt too bad to where he couldn't show himself in this forum?

D Roses Bulls
10-19-2011, 03:38 AM
As much as i like derrick rose, i agree with the raider fan. I'd take Chris Paul over Rose. He's a better all-around player and a better point guard.

thats why rose owned him when they played, right? sorry but I have friends who even watch a lot more bball then most of you who have league pass like me and they even agree. most people that say paul is better are john hollinger fans. where has paul gotten his team since he has been in the league? dont give me that crap about him bein the west, NO ONE and I repeat no one on the bulls can score and the bulls made it to the ECF and the ECF was closer then a lot of people think. give me a f'ing break.

D Roses Bulls
10-19-2011, 03:40 AM
I admit when I am wrong, but look at my picks compared to some of yours and I bet I beat almost anyone on here. I know wtf I am talkin about. this is ESPN for god sacks. they even under valued Dirk who tore up the whole damn playoffs. but I guess numbers is what matters or PER :facepalm:

JJ_JKidd
10-19-2011, 04:16 AM
King of No Ring is numero uno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :facepalm:

Cano4prez
10-19-2011, 06:05 AM
Rose nuthuggers at it again :facepalm:

Chill_Will_24
10-19-2011, 06:58 AM
Rose nuthuggers at it again :facepalm:

:sigh: This. I wish Rose had been drafted by any other team. To think i actaually like Rose and want him to do well.. except instead ive grown to resent him thanks to all these homer Bulls fans. Rose will NEVER be as good as Paul. Paul is closer to Westbrook than to Paul.

bholly
10-19-2011, 07:00 AM
Want to point out that there's only a 0.05 difference separating Dirk at #5 and Wade at #3

With 91 voters each giving 0-10 points the scores mean Dirk got 880 points, CP3 got 881, and Wade got either 884 or 885*.

The point is these are tiny differences. One of those 91 voters give Dirk an extra point and he ties for 4th. One point from 91 voters. At most 5 points between Dirk and Wade. Crazy.



*(Wade's one is weird - 884 rounds down to 9.71, 885 rounds up to 9.73, so I don't know how he got 9.72 - unless they rounded wrong or someone gave half marks?)

UPRock
10-19-2011, 07:43 AM
Overrating Griffin again? Wow ESPN, he's hardly a top 5 power foward and now he's a top 10 player. The list in general is good, but Blakes at 10 kills it. Replace him with Carmelo and the list is good.

Lakerfan In NY
10-19-2011, 09:35 AM
10. Blake Griffin- 8.78
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113335/nba-player-rankings-10

9. Deron Williams- 8.98
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113286/nba-player-rankings-9

8. Derrick Rose- 9.27
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113439/nba-player-rankings-8

7. Kobe Bryant- 9.40
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113521/nba-player-rankings-7

6. Kevin Durant- 9.62
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113666/nba-player-rankings-6

5. Dirk Nowitzki- 9.67
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116700/nba-player-rankings-5

4. Chris Paul- 9.68
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116865/nba-player-rankings-4

3. Dwyane Wade- 9.72
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116899/nba-player-rankings-3

2. Dwight Howard- 9.82
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116954/nba-player-rankings-2

1. LeBron James- 9.91
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7116977/nba-player-rankings-1

This is what happens when nerds & computer rank sports. You rank someone as the best player in the world but he is constantly a no show in big games...

ctad2002
10-19-2011, 09:45 AM
kobe 7 lmao i guess people dont kno much about basketball...kobe is the best hands down

ManningToTyree
10-19-2011, 09:50 AM
BG? :facepalm:

Soxsnation4life
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
Chris Paul had a ton of awful games last season, way to much to be ranked number 4. He had 15 games were he shot under 30%. Including 2 games where he shot 0%

MR.TRIPDUB
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
looks like espn agreed with me haha


i should work for espn


:hi5:

First question in interview to work for ESPN: Would you ride Lebrons Jock no matter what? Jk;)

I like the list, but i would probably move durant top five. 4-8 can be interchanged. Deron and griffin is too high. Deron really struggled in nj and blake, its just too early to tell.

kgformvp21
10-19-2011, 10:06 AM
Kd should def be in top five take out paul. Blake Griffen.....psshhhh....OCCUPY GAMEDAY

LakersIn5
10-19-2011, 10:08 AM
i agree with the top 9. and to the lebron haters just because dirk outplayed everyone in the playoffs and won finals mvp doesnt make him the most talented player in the league. its still hands down lebron.

SeoulBeatz
10-19-2011, 10:14 AM
They did it with my Eagles (dreamteam), they did it with the Heat(Heatindex? Really espn? You gave a whole section of your site to ONE freakin team?)

The only reason Blake is in the top 10 is because ESPN desperately wants him to be the new face of the NBA (which he could be without their help) and they'll blow up his name by any means possible.

He's clearly not a top 10 player right now, especially on a losing team regardless of the monstrous rookie numbers he had.

I have no doubt he will be a top 5 player in the league in the near future, but right now, him being on the list is almost laughable.

juno10
10-19-2011, 10:15 AM
First question in interview to work for ESPN: Would you ride Lebrons Jock no matter what? Jk;)

yes.

juno10
10-19-2011, 10:18 AM
thats why rose owned him when they played, right? sorry but I have friends who even watch a lot more bball then most of you who have league pass like me and they even agree. most people that say paul is better are john hollinger fans. where has paul gotten his team since he has been in the league? dont give me that crap about him bein the west, NO ONE and I repeat no one on the bulls can score and the bulls made it to the ECF and the ECF was closer then a lot of people think. give me a f'ing break.

with that user name you surely hold an unbiased opinion:rolleyes:

MR.TRIPDUB
10-19-2011, 10:19 AM
yes.

Hahaha, youre hired!:cool:

Slimsim
10-19-2011, 10:21 AM
Skip Bayless Said he has melo in his top 5 for Clutchness. Now we all know skip say stupid **** most of the time, but I do think a lot of people underrated Clutchness.

juno10
10-19-2011, 10:24 AM
skipps hates dwight,lebron,rose with such a passion but is loving off durant.

Soxsnation4life
10-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Skip Bayless Said he has melo in his top 5 for Clutchness. Now we all know skip say stupid **** most of the time, but I do think a lot of people underrated Clutchness.

No one is arguing Carmelo that Carmelo is top 5 in clutchness, but an NBA game is more than 2 minutes long

Soxsnation4life
10-19-2011, 10:26 AM
King of No Ring is numero uno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :facepalm:

tell me should be number one then?

juno10
10-19-2011, 10:28 AM
King of No Ring is numero uno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :facepalm:

most of the top 5 have no rings whats your point

Zetterberg40
10-19-2011, 10:41 AM
omfg, someone with 3,300+ posts makes comments like this?

Since when did we start basing peoples intelligence on the number of posts they have.

effen5
10-19-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm sorry but thislist is horrible. Blake is no where near top 10. Chris paul is no longer a top 5 player. He had a mediocre season last year. Kobe is too low, and so is rose. Top three looks fine.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 01:10 PM
Rose nuthuggers at it again :facepalm:


:sigh: This. I wish Rose had been drafted by any other team. To think i actaually like Rose and want him to do well.. except instead ive grown to resent him thanks to all these homer Bulls fans. Rose will NEVER be as good as Paul. Paul is closer to Westbrook than to Paul.

People can't even talk about Derrick Rose on this forum anymore because of people like you :laugh:

The only way Derrick Rose can be brought up on this forum any more is if someone other than a Bulls fan starts talking about him.

Avenged
10-19-2011, 06:52 PM
kobe 7 lmao i guess people dont kno much about basketball...kobe is the best hands down

:win:

Hawkeye15
10-19-2011, 07:10 PM
i dont have a problem with kobe and durant being interchanged, i mean you can make a case for durant. I just think kobe is a better player than him, i think durants a bit overrated actually. Many people have him top 5.
and yes the blake pick is stupid amare/gasol/melo/westbrook/love/aldridge? would have been better options..
griffin is NOT the 2nd best PF in the league

oh Griffin is absolutely too high on this list.

Honestly, I would not have a problem at all with Kobe over Durant. I don't think its a clear cut argument either way really. I do think Kobe, and Durant, are outside the top 5 looking in.

Hawkeye15
10-19-2011, 07:11 PM
Rose fans, your time will come. But Chris Paul is better than Rose. He just is. He is better at every facet of the game outside of exploding to the rim. Relax, and enjoy having a young franchise player for the next 10 years

Bulls_fan90
10-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Skip Bayless Said he has melo in his top 5 for Clutchness. Now we all know skip say stupid **** most of the time, but I do think a lot of people underrated Clutchness.

Melo is clutch. I might even have him top 3.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 07:31 PM
Rose fans, your time will come. But Chris Paul is better than Rose. He just is. He is better at every facet of the game outside of exploding to the rim. Relax, and enjoy having a young franchise player for the next 10 years

Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

effen5
10-19-2011, 08:21 PM
Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

In the regular season. Only person that could guard Rose was Lebron James....shows you how incredible Rose is.

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 08:22 PM
Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

I didn't see Rose do that either.

effen5
10-19-2011, 08:22 PM
I didn't see Rose do that either.

Rose did in the regular season.

SportsAndrew25
10-19-2011, 08:24 PM
OK list but Blake is a bit overrated to say the least.

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 08:28 PM
Rose did in the regular season.

Toney Douglas and the Knicks chewed up the Bulls in the regular season. What happened in the playoffs? Besides, The Heat weren't even playing close to their best ball 2 out of the 4 times they played the Bulls.

Cano4prez
10-19-2011, 08:33 PM
Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

Rose didn't have a better season..


inb4 Rose's undeserved MVP

Avenged
10-19-2011, 08:34 PM
Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

I can agree w/ your first sentence but I also think you have to factor in the teams. Rose had a great season because he has a very good championship contending team. Individually, Chris Paul was more efficient but even I will agree that Rose wasn't far off from him if we're only talking about last season.

I think when ranking top players, especially top 10, longevity does come into play. If you are an up-and-coming player who produced his 1st top 10 season then chances are he won't be ranked very high in the top 10. But if you're known to play at that level for more than 1 season, individually you'll rank higher. I do expect Rose to rank higher next season.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 08:54 PM
It's very misleading to credit his team instead of Rose. Look at each one of those Heat games, Rose was right there facilitating the points needed to win those games in crunch time...either scoring them himself or setting up his mates to get easy shots. That's what Rose was doing the ENTIRE SEASON. Look at what happens in the final 2 or 3 minutes of every close game of the season. It goes something like this:

Derrick Rose drives in for a lay up

Derrick Rose draws a foul

Derrick Rose assists Luol Deng

Derrick Rose assists Korver

Derrick Rose makes a 3

etc...

and Kashmir, to say that the Heat weren't playing good ball the times Rose and the Bulls beat them is not right either, the Heat were trying as hard as they could to win those games. You think they didn't care about being swept by the Bulls?

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 09:02 PM
and thats my criticism of Chris Paul, he didn't put the team on his back and do what was necessary to win close games. Too many times he gets 12+ assists but has like 8 FGA's and his team loses.

Chris Paul is not running around the court in the final minutes of a game doing everything necessary to ensure his team pulls out the W.

Kashmir13579
10-19-2011, 09:06 PM
and thats my criticism of Chris Paul, he didn't put the team on his back and do what was necessary to win close games. Too many times he gets 12+ assists but has like 8 FGA's and his team loses.

Chris Paul is not running around the court in the final minutes of a game doing everything necessary to ensure his team pulls out the W.
It only seems that way because you don't watch every single Hornets game and Rose is your favorite player.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 09:09 PM
I could say that to you too, you under rate Rose because you haven't watced every single Bulls game.

It's obviously the case because the Hornets didn't win very many games, what seed were they? What round did they get to?

Chris Paul is commonly criticized for not shooting enough, for not being that go-to guy in crunch time. Look at his losses in the playoffs, he got an amzing amount of assists in every game but in the losses he shot less than 13 times and in the wins he shot more than 13 times.

I know people just loooove passing PG's and haaaate scoring PG's on this forum, but star players do what it takes to win and in the end, Chris Paul did not do that enough last season.

RZZZA
10-19-2011, 09:14 PM
It just comes down to what you want. If you ask me who's more efficient, who's a better shooter, who's a better passer, I'll say Chris Paul.

but if you ask me who I'd prefer to have in a close game and which player is more capable of taking over a game and putting the team on his back, it's Rose all day every day.

JordansBulls
10-20-2011, 02:10 PM
Bad list. The top 3 are guys who all lost with HCA as the hands down favorite this year.

Raph12
10-20-2011, 02:15 PM
Much better than most of their lists, but take Dirk out of the Top 5 (behind KD) and BG and/or DWill out of the Top 10...

D1JM
10-20-2011, 02:33 PM
melo out of the top 10, seems about right. i would take out BG though.

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Define better

He has better stats, Rose had a better season. I didn't see Chris Paul bending the Heat over and whipping their *****.

sure. Better passer, ball handler, shooter, defender, floor leader, less turnover prone, better decision maker, better everything outside Rose's superior dynamic athletic ability, letting him finish in traffic better.

Paul is literally better than Rose at everything, except the explosive scoring penetration.

There, didn't need stats, which Paul always has over Rose, and any other PG

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 03:00 PM
Careful Rose fans, some of you are turning into Kobe fans, and using team success as an argument. Players don't get to pick their rosters many times. Paul can't help he has had garbage to play with, and Rose shouldn't be given credit for the #1 defense in the NBA, the #1 bench in the NBA, and having Deng, Boozer, Noah, while Paul gets Ariza, West, and Okafor.

JordansBulls
10-20-2011, 04:22 PM
Much better than most of their lists, but take Dirk out of the Top 5 (behind KD) and BG and/or DWill out of the Top 10...

I agree that Dirk should have been clear cut #1 last year.

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 04:24 PM
I agree that Dirk should have been clear cut #1 last year.

why? Because of one strong playoff run? Do we just say the best player from whichever team won the championship every year is the best that year?

naps
10-20-2011, 05:53 PM
why? Because of one strong playoff run? Do we just say the best player from whichever team won the championship every year is the best that year?

In before JB comes up with his copy-paste **** that includes HCA, SRS, and all-stars :p

Avenged
10-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Careful Rose fans, some of you are turning into Kobe fans, and using team success as an argument. Players don't get to pick their rosters many times. Paul can't help he has had garbage to play with, and Rose shouldn't be given credit for the #1 defense in the NBA, the #1 bench in the NBA, and having Deng, Boozer, Noah, while Paul gets Ariza, West, and Okafor.

At least Kobe has had legitimate arguments for the top player in the league. ;)

Spurred1
10-20-2011, 05:56 PM
Bad list. The top 3 are guys who all lost with HCA as the hands down favorite this year.

Which should illustrate to you how useless HCA actually is.

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 06:02 PM
At least Kobe has had legitimate arguments for the top player in the league. ;)

that wasn't my point honestly. I just can't stand when fans use team success as the major portion of their argument about an individual in a team sport.

beliges
10-20-2011, 06:33 PM
that wasn't my point honestly. I just can't stand when fans use team success as the major portion of their argument about an individual in a team sport.

Because basketball isnt like football or baseball where a team's success is based on 11+ guys playing cohesively together. Basketball is a 5 on 5 game in which one individual can carry an entire team to victories through individual domination. Its no surprise the greatest players of all time have all won multiple championships. Winning is given much more weight in the NBA then any other team sport because of this reason. The best always find a way to carry their team to championships. Its not something easy to do but if you want to be considered one of the greatests ever, you need to win and win. No excuses. Fans can make excuses, but in the end all that matters is how much you won.

Bruno
10-20-2011, 06:53 PM
Because basketball isnt like football or baseball where a team's success is based on 11+ guys playing cohesively together. Basketball is a 5 on 5 game in which one individual can carry an entire team to victories through individual domination. Its no surprise the greatest players of all time have all won multiple championships. Winning is given much more weight in the NBA then any other team sport because of this reason. The best always find a way to carry their team to championships. Its not something easy to do but if you want to be considered one of the greatests ever, you need to win and win. No excuses. Fans can make excuses, but in the end all that matters is how much you won.

That's reflected by the consensus top ten combining for 48 NBA championships over the past 54 NBA seasons (8 championships w/ overlap [Magic/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe]). Seems like the GOATs need at least two rings as top gun to crack that top ten.

Russell- 11
Jordan- 6
Bird- 3
Magic- 5
KAJ- 6
Wilt- 2
Duncan- 4
Shaq- 4
Bryant- 5
Dream- 2

beliges
10-20-2011, 07:02 PM
That's reflected by the consensus top ten combining for 48 NBA championships over the past 54 NBA seasons (8 championships w/ overlap [Magic/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe]). Seems like the GOATs need at least two rings as top gun to crack that top ten.

Russell- 11
Jordan- 6
Bird- 3
Magic- 5
KAJ- 6
Wilt- 2
Duncan- 4
Shaq- 4
Bryant- 5
Dream- 2

Exactly. Its not a coincidence that the greatest players of all time each were able to win multiple championships. These kinds of players will find ways to win and win multiple times.

Bruno
10-20-2011, 07:11 PM
Exactly. Its not a coincidence that the greatest players of all time each were able to win multiple championships. These kinds of players will find ways to win and win multiple times.

In the past I thought that no individual team athlete had more control of their teams success than the NFL quarterback. Which is true, offensively. But QB's obviously don't play defense, and only participate in one half of the game. IMO no team athlete in any sport has more control of their teams success than the NBA super-star.

beliges
10-20-2011, 08:38 PM
In the past I thought that no individual team athlete had more control of their teams success than the NFL quarterback. Which is true, offensively. But QB's obviously don't play defense, and only participate in one half of the game. IMO no team athlete in any sport has more control of their teams success than the NBA super-star.

This is true, especially since no matter how good of a QB you are, you will not succeed unless you have a good offensive line. The NBA is different than any other team sport in the sense that one individual can carry their team to victories through their individual dominance.

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Because basketball isnt like football or baseball where a team's success is based on 11+ guys playing cohesively together. Basketball is a 5 on 5 game in which one individual can carry an entire team to victories through individual domination. Its no surprise the greatest players of all time have all won multiple championships. Winning is given much more weight in the NBA then any other team sport because of this reason. The best always find a way to carry their team to championships. Its not something easy to do but if you want to be considered one of the greatests ever, you need to win and win. No excuses. Fans can make excuses, but in the end all that matters is how much you won.

Its a team sport. One man can have a huge effect in basketball compared to other major sports over the regular season. But when there are only a handful of teams left, the elite, they cripple one man teams.

Find me one of your so called greats that won rings without a bad *** roster. Good luck...

Hawkeye15
10-20-2011, 10:40 PM
That's reflected by the consensus top ten combining for 48 NBA championships over the past 54 NBA seasons (8 championships w/ overlap [Magic/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe]). Seems like the GOATs need at least two rings as top gun to crack that top ten.

Russell- 11
Jordan- 6
Bird- 3
Magic- 5
KAJ- 6
Wilt- 2
Duncan- 4
Shaq- 4
Bryant- 5
Dream- 2


And everyone listed, with a possible exception of Hakeem (debateable when lining up the competiton play), has had great roster support in every championship year they have had.

naps
10-20-2011, 11:06 PM
That's reflected by the consensus top ten combining for 48 NBA championships over the past 54 NBA seasons (8 championships w/ overlap [Magic/KAJ, Shaq/Kobe]). Seems like the GOATs need at least two rings as top gun to crack that top ten.

Russell- 11
Jordan- 6
Bird- 3
Magic- 5
KAJ- 6
Wilt- 2
Duncan- 4
Shaq- 4
Bryant- 5
Dream- 2

True and none of them won without significant amount of help. Basketball is a team sport and no matter how dominant one player individually is, it takes others to have the capability of stepping it up when needed. Michael Jordan killed the league from 86 to 90 individually but couldn't win.

beliges
10-21-2011, 12:43 AM
Its a team sport. One man can have a huge effect in basketball compared to other major sports over the regular season. But when there are only a handful of teams left, the elite, they cripple one man teams.

Find me one of your so called greats that won rings without a bad *** roster. Good luck...

Nobody is saying you dont need a good team to win a ring. In the playoffs, especially starting from teh conference semis, every team is good. Every team is talented. But once there, its usually the teams that have a player that can take over a game/series and carry their team to victories. Sure you need contribution from everyone. But if youre making it that far, you have a good enough team to compete. Those players listed above, the best of the best, have all lifted their game during the post season and carried their teams to championships. Thats what makes these great players the best of the best. If you cant carry your team to titles that doesnt mean youre not a great player. Its not easy to win. There are lots of great players, HOF players that have never won. But there are only a select few elite players that did it over and over again.

Hawkeye15
10-21-2011, 01:45 AM
Nobody is saying you dont need a good team to win a ring. In the playoffs, especially starting from teh conference semis, every team is good. Every team is talented. But once there, its usually the teams that have a player that can take over a game/series and carry their team to victories. Sure you need contribution from everyone. But if youre making it that far, you have a good enough team to compete. Those players listed above, the best of the best, have all lifted their game during the post season and carried their teams to championships. Thats what makes these great players the best of the best. If you cant carry your team to titles that doesnt mean youre not a great player. Its not easy to win. There are lots of great players, HOF players that have never won. But there are only a select few elite players that did it over and over again.


You are overexplaining the fact that the top 10-20 players ever are part of championship teams to an extent. I got it. But rings don't define individuals in a team sport. LeBron James will most likely win a ring. Dirk just won a ring. It doesn't make them better players than they were before. It makes them great players that finally cashed in on having a great roster that played great at the most important time.

Bruno
10-21-2011, 03:15 AM
And everyone listed, with a possible exception of Hakeem (debateable when lining up the competiton play), has had great roster support in every championship year they have had.

Totally. Regardless of how great a guy may be individually you need that team that can ideally perform as a unit greater than the sum of its parts. I was just making the point that there's no denying the importance of the NBA super-star, and that it is very possibly the important individual in all of team sports. Take those top gun individuals off those championship teams and they don't win it all either.

D1JM
10-21-2011, 03:19 AM
Rose fans, your time will come. But Chris Paul is better than Rose. He just is. He is better at every facet of the game outside of exploding to the rim. Relax, and enjoy having a young franchise player for the next 10 years


Obviously, the differences between these players are microscopic enough that reasonable people can disagree (and apparently do) about which one is better. Nonetheless, if I could have had two extra decimal points for my ratings I'd have given Rose a 9.03 and Paul a 9.01. It's close, but as of this month Rose is a little better.

Link (http://http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113098/nba-derrick-rose-better-chris-paul)
According to hollinger's article. It's one opinion though.

YungDaSensai
10-21-2011, 03:52 AM
BG #10 c'mon cuz... next yr he'll be the best in league :rolleyes:

beliges
10-21-2011, 01:41 PM
You are overexplaining the fact that the top 10-20 players ever are part of championship teams to an extent. I got it. But rings don't define individuals in a team sport. LeBron James will most likely win a ring. Dirk just won a ring. It doesn't make them better players than they were before. It makes them great players that finally cashed in on having a great roster that played great at the most important time.

Rings define individuals in the NBA because as explained, even though the NBA is a team sport, the individual has more impact in a 5 on 5 basketball game than any other team sport. Without a few rings during your career in the NBA, no matter how great you played during the regular season, you cannot achieve that immortality that comes along winning. Dirk winning a ring last year propels him much higher in regards to all time ranking that he was before. Lebron winning a ring will also propel him higher in the all time rankings that he currently is. The NBA values winning more than putting up numbers, and thats something that makes the NBA special. If youre great enough to carrry your teams to championships, you get rewarded. Thats how it is and how it should be. Once again, its no coincidence that the 10 greatest players to have ever played the game of basketball all have won championships. You cannot be considered the best of the best without ever winning.

Raph12
10-21-2011, 04:06 PM
I agree that Dirk should have been clear cut #1 last year.

How did you get that from my post?...

When I say "take Dirk out of the Top 5" I mean take Dirk out of the Top 5, ergo he is not a Top 5 player.

Dirk is like Rose, overrated due to team success.

VinceCarter
10-21-2011, 04:11 PM
Griffin #10 :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
10-21-2011, 04:19 PM
Link (http://http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113098/nba-derrick-rose-better-chris-paul)
According to hollinger's article. It's one opinion though.

I like Hollinger generally, but he is way too much into his own developed stats over some others out there, and he is indeed the classic stat geek that removes the element of watching the game sometimes, despite the fact he probably watches more games than anyone.

Paul showed why in round 1 of the playoffs he is still the best PG alive. Its a shame his knee limits him to playing at probably 85% throughout the regular season, and he needs to save himself to a degree, but even at 85%, he is putting up as good as numbers as any other PG, and he showed in the playoffs the Paul of 06-08' is still there. The one that is by far and away the top PG

Hawkeye15
10-21-2011, 04:20 PM
Rings define individuals in the NBA because as explained, even though the NBA is a team sport, the individual has more impact in a 5 on 5 basketball game than any other team sport. Without a few rings during your career in the NBA, no matter how great you played during the regular season, you cannot achieve that immortality that comes along winning. Dirk winning a ring last year propels him much higher in regards to all time ranking that he was before. Lebron winning a ring will also propel him higher in the all time rankings that he currently is. The NBA values winning more than putting up numbers, and thats something that makes the NBA special. If youre great enough to carrry your teams to championships, you get rewarded. Thats how it is and how it should be. Once again, its no coincidence that the 10 greatest players to have ever played the game of basketball all have won championships. You cannot be considered the best of the best without ever winning.

I agree with you, but on a much, much lesser extent. I don't think a ring has any more weight than a stat, award, accolade, or any other factor that determines greatness. Its simply another factor in a long list. Winning a ring doesn't just make you a better player.

D1JM
10-21-2011, 04:26 PM
I like Hollinger generally, but he is way too much into his own developed stats over some others out there, and he is indeed the classic stat geek that removes the element of watching the game sometimes, despite the fact he probably watches more games than anyone.

Paul showed why in round 1 of the playoffs he is still the best PG alive. Its a shame his knee limits him to playing at probably 85% throughout the regular season, and he needs to save himself to a degree, but even at 85%, he is putting up as good as numbers as any other PG, and he showed in the playoffs the Paul of 06-08' is still there. The one that is by far and away the top PG

I was just showing one perspective on how people have different opinions on things. I don't care if Paul is considered the best pg in the NBA because he is. Rose still has a lot of learning to do and he is a different type of PG than Paul.
I don't care if people call rose overrated because at least 25+ teams would drool if rose was their PG.

By the way, what pg didn't run circles over fisher?

beliges
10-21-2011, 04:41 PM
I agree with you, but on a much, much lesser extent. I don't think a ring has any more weight than a stat, award, accolade, or any other factor that determines greatness. Its simply another factor in a long list. Winning a ring doesn't just make you a better player.

I agree but certain accolades have become nothing but a popularity contest that gets decided by media personell who have personal agendas and their own biases. Stats are great but putting up exceptional numbers during the regular season holds little weight for me when you cannot translate those numbers into winning. I have no problem with people putting little credence in winning championships. For me, its one of the most important aspects that define an individual player. Winning ring doesnt make you a better player. But the best of the best always find ways to win.

Hawkeye15
10-21-2011, 07:02 PM
I agree but certain accolades have become nothing but a popularity contest that gets decided by media personell who have personal agendas and their own biases. Stats are great but putting up exceptional numbers during the regular season holds little weight for me when you cannot translate those numbers into winning. I have no problem with people putting little credence in winning championships. For me, its one of the most important aspects that define an individual player. Winning ring doesnt make you a better player. But the best of the best always find ways to win.

They don't always find ways. Sometimes a ton of help needs to come along for them to do it. David Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Wilt, Shaq, and countless others. And some never get the roster right. Barkley, Malone, etc. And some get their rings so far past their primes, its simply a ring.

I more or less agree with you. But I don't value winning a ring in a team sport all that much when speaking of individuals. You only have so much control over the outcome of a game individually. Which is why when players rate a player over another guy, who clearly has better numbers, awards, dominance, etc, all because their guy has a ring, its a failed argument.

Rings are only a small piece of the pie when deciding how to evaluate a player. Now, why do many think Barkley is better than KG? Because he played better than expected over his playoff career. I am fine with that. But Barkley never won a ring. It doesn't make him a lesser player at all. Nash will probably find the same fate.

beliges
10-21-2011, 07:24 PM
They don't always find ways. Sometimes a ton of help needs to come along for them to do it. David Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Wilt, Shaq, and countless others. And some never get the roster right. Barkley, Malone, etc. And some get their rings so far past their primes, its simply a ring.

I more or less agree with you. But I don't value winning a ring in a team sport all that much when speaking of individuals. You only have so much control over the outcome of a game individually. Which is why when players rate a player over another guy, who clearly has better numbers, awards, dominance, etc, all because their guy has a ring, its a failed argument.

Rings are only a small piece of the pie when deciding how to evaluate a player. Now, why do many think Barkley is better than KG? Because he played better than expected over his playoff career. I am fine with that. But Barkley never won a ring. It doesn't make him a lesser player at all. Nash will probably find the same fate.

Barkley and Malone, while great were never as good as Duncan or Shaq. David Robinson's ONE ring doesnt make him better than Barkley or Malone either. Duncan's 4 and Shaq's 4 make them better than Malone and Barkley. I have no doubt if Malone was able to win 5 rings he would be considered the greatest PF of all time. The best of the best always find ways to win. Name one player that should be in the top 10 of all time that never managed to win a ring. You cant. Thats what the greatest players do, they win championships. Thats why I put a lot of weight in winning. Numbers are great and all but the object of the game is not to see who has the best individual numbers. Its to see who can carry a team to championships.

Furthermore, I consider KG better than Barkley with or without the ring. I think hes the 2nd greatest PF to play the game. If he somehow managed to win 3 or 4 rings I would probably put him above KG. Barkley had a great team and certainly had a great chance to win titles but he never got it done. Thats because the one time he got there he went up against the better player in MJ.

Great players win. It DOES make one a lesser player if they never won a championship. Malone, Barkley and Nash are lesser players than Duncan, Shaq and Magic because they never won multiple championships. Like I said, it doesnt bother me if you dont value winning as much as I do. But to me, its no coincidence that the general consensus top 10 of all time are all champions.