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hard_candy
10-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Great story here on espn:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32504/the-moment-the-talks-fell-apart

Apparently, the owners were absolutely ready to settle at 50/50 and were prepared to negotiate on the finer points 24/7 to save the season. Union rep Kessler said he recalled that the players would support 50/50 as well.

Instead, 3 superstars barged in, and stated that 50/50 was not good enough.

Dwayne Wade felt disrespected when Stern pointed at him.

As I suspected all along, it's the egos of a very small minority of the game's oldest, most arrogant, and highest paid players who are also therefore the most influential, who "vetoed" the would be, almost proposed deal.

So, it's really Stern's out of touch arrogance and douchebaggery, and the douchebaggery, enormous egos and greed of just a handful of players or less.

You're welcome.




October 4: The day talks to save the NBA season went haywire.

David Stern, Billy Hunter, Derek Fisher, Adam Silver, Spurs owner Peter Holt, union lawyers Ron Klempner and Jeffrey Kessler ... with various others dropping in from time to time, that crew of seven had met more than 40 times and for untold hours over the last two years. None of them had had good summers.

But all those hours in rented conference rooms, all those dishes of hotel mints, rows of water glasses and catered lunches had not been a total waste of time. They had led to some things. The league had dropped its insistence on a hard cap, for instance. The players had offered to hand over something close to a billion dollars in future earnings.

And more importantly, by last Tuesday, there was a deal in the air.

Both sides were still keeping their best offers secret ... but those in the room say they were getting a sense where things were headed. You can tell a hell of a lot about where things are headed, Stern says, "if you listen."

"We thought we could live," union head Hunter said later on WFAN, "with the deal we were close to making."

On Oct. 4, the NBA's negotiators entered a midtown Manhattan hotel with more than a little glimmer of hope.

There would still be issues to deal with, like the luxury tax, cap exceptions and the length of contracts. But even the hardest-bitten journalists in the hallway allowed that it could, finally, be deal day.

The league's negotiators had four things going for them:

A memory of Kessler suggesting, about a month earlier, in another hotel, at another meeting, that the players might go for something like a 50/50 split of basketball revenues.
Out of a meeting with owners in Dallas, little consensus about what Stern could offer the players, but nevertheless an agreement among owners to empower the league's labor committee to negotiate with players "on all points."
The league's labor committee, more than a third of the league's owners, including those from the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics and Spurs, assembled in New York ready to deal.
The scheduled November start of the regular season around the corner.


What happened next will one day be studied by students of labor, business, race relations and more.

Nobody disputes that Stern and Silver talked to Fisher and Kessler in the hallway, bringing up what they thought would be music to Kessler's ears. His offer, of splitting basketball-related income down the middle ... maybe it was time to see if the two sides could sell that to their respective groups.

Stern was confident he could talk enough owners into it, and as for the players ... Kessler was their pit bull. And this was his idea!

Having floated their big idea, the offer so sweet it just might get them in trouble with their owners, the league officials were excited to know they at least had a victory in the bag. They'd have a long night of dealing with systems issues ahead of them, but maybe, just maybe, this long summer of meetings could be wrapped up. Maybe the season would be intact.

Denied

As Stern has recounted a dozen times since, not long after what was supposed to have been the hallway conversation that saved the season, something odd and wholly unexpected happened. There was a knock on the door where Stern was selling his owners on the idea. The players wanted to talk.

When they convened, instead of the union's head, Hunter, or its negotiating committee of Maurice Evans, Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Theo Ratliff, Etan Thomas and Chris Paul, representing the players were Fisher, Kessler and three superstars who had been to very few of the meetings at all: Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Kobe Bryant.

A bad sign: Pierce was still wearing his backpack.

The players had two pieces of news that shocked the league: 50/50 was not good enough. And there was nothing further to discuss.

"We had a large group of owners," remembers Silver, "who had flown in and were prepared to negotiate around the clock."

More importantly, they had made an aggressively good offer, the NBA's leaders thought, the one that might get them in trouble with their owners but surely not with the players.

And players who hadn't even been in the talks, and who seemed not to be on the same page with the crew that had endured more than 40 meetings, had been the ones to reject the best offer the league was likely to have, and to end the best day of negotiations prematurely.

What in the hell was going on? How had they so misread the situation? And where was Hunter? Who spoke for the union? Should the league have been negotiating with Garnett all along?

Later the league would suggest that the talks had fallen apart because the union happened to have some particularly strident players show up that day.

Maybe it's as simple as that. Or maybe it's much more complicated.

ink
10-16-2011, 07:24 PM
Great, Garnett, Pierce, and Bryant. Three of the league's brightest light bulbs. :facepalm: Of the three, Kobe is probably the only one able to spell his name, let alone negotiate a CBA.

Corey
10-16-2011, 07:27 PM
Great, Garnett, Pierce, and Bryant. Three of the league's brightest light bulbs. :facepalm: Of the three, Kobe is probably the only one able to spell his name.

I know you're exaggerating, but stereotypes really piss me off. C'mon.

fadedmario
10-16-2011, 07:32 PM
NBA players are complete trash.

Corey
10-16-2011, 07:32 PM
NBA players are complete trash.

Nice derogatory generalization. Glad to see we're evolving as a society.

ink
10-16-2011, 07:33 PM
I know you're exaggerating, but stereotypes really piss me off. C'mon.

It's not a stereotype. If it had been Duncan, Nash, or even the actual members of the negotiating committee (!!!) who had put in 40 meetings (!!!), there might have been a chance. But hearing Garnett, Pierce, or even Kobe talk, do you get the impression of intelligence? I sure don't. I get the impression of fierce competitors, which is fine on the court, but I don't get the impression that these three belong in ANY type of bargaining session.

topdog
10-16-2011, 07:38 PM
Yeah, this was real depressing to me. I think of guys like Garnett with $20M a year contracts and just shake my head.

Can we get a story about someone with a mid-level contract? Maybe someone who says: "Wait, you want it so that one guy doesn't get a third of the cap and leave 14 other guys to get paid the other two thirds? So that a team could just sign me outright because they have capspace left? That makes sense!" Oh, and: "So, that team could actually look to sign that second star Superstar A complains he needs to win a championship?"

fadedmario
10-16-2011, 07:43 PM
Nice derogatory generalization. Glad to see we're evolving as a society.

I call them like i see them. I hope we lose the NBA until 2015.

THE GIPPER
10-16-2011, 07:57 PM
So much greed and arrogance its pathetic really.

beasted86
10-16-2011, 08:03 PM
I don't feel like finding the link... but I recall either Stern specifically saying himself the NBPA threw out the idea of if the players settled at 50%, would the owners concede most of the system changes, and Stern said the owners said blankly "No."

Can't have it both ways. Can't say the players are greedy, yet expect them to take the 50% AND take a bunch of system changes to limit their free agency. 50% split is a 15% paycut for all players. So I don't hold any stake in that article's stance.

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:16 PM
i honestly hope we lose the season too for a while at least, nothing is more ugly then someone that sign's a 20,000,000 contract And Needs a lil more before they feel comfortable! ..... AND SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY! IS DEREK FISHER THE LEADER IN THIS! i would feel so much better with some old man that i have NO IDEA what his name is leading the Way, NOT THE STARTING POINT GUARD FOR THE LAKERS!

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:19 PM
I don't feel like finding the link... but I recall either Stern specifically saying himself the NBPA threw out the idea of if the players settled at 50%, would the owners concede most of the system changes, and Stern said the owners said blankly "No."

Can't have it both ways. Can't say the players are greedy, yet expect them to take the 50% AND take a bunch of system changes to limit their free agency. 50% split is a 15% paycut for all players. So I don't hold any stake in that article's stance.

Someone's mad cause his player killed the season lol

beasted86
10-16-2011, 08:23 PM
Here's the link btw:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio-on-demand/mike-francesa-1/# @ 17:50 mark

David Stern:

The first time 50% was uttered it was by the player's negotiator who said, "It's not an offer it's a concept, it's a concept if you leave everything else the same" and we said "no, no, no, no"

daleja424
10-16-2011, 08:32 PM
Someone's mad cause his player killed the season lol

someone is mad that his own "super team" is below .500

Raps08-09 Champ
10-16-2011, 08:33 PM
How are they complaining? If it was someone like Fields or Barnes making minimum, I'd understand.

All have made a minimum $200 million from NBA and endorsements.

Come on guys.

daleja424
10-16-2011, 08:35 PM
How are they complaining? If it was someone like Fields or Barnes making minimum, I'd understand.

All have made a minimum $200 million from NBA and endorsements.

Come on guys.

Not sure what that has to do with it. Its not like they would be the ones taking paycuts. It is the guys lower on the totem poll that they are holding out for.

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:37 PM
someone is mad that his own "super team" is below .500

lmao literally had nothing to do with the eagles, your so witty .... but you must also be a Heat Fan, So in that case. Get dirked lil guy :D

daleja424
10-16-2011, 08:41 PM
lmao literally had nothing to do with the eagles, your so witty .... but you must also be a Heat Fan, So in that case. Get dirked lil guy :D

just like beasted's post had nothing to do with the HEAT... but i figured since we were all going off topic I might as well join in.

Thanks for playing tho...

beasted86
10-16-2011, 08:43 PM
Someone's mad cause his player killed the season lol

I'm mad, yet only telling the truth? Even posted links and everything? Does Henry Abbott know more about the negotiations and offers than Stern himself?

This forum is getting more and more immature by the day.

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:44 PM
just like beasted's post had nothing to do with the HEAT... but i figured since we were all going off topic I might as well join in.

Thanks for playing tho...

Glad to see you read the topic lol, Had a lil something to do with a guy named wade he plays for the heat i think?.... its okay if i was a heat fan i would not read anything either for a while at least

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:47 PM
I'm mad, yet only telling the truth? Even posted links and everything? Does Henry Abbott know more about the negotiations and offers than Stern himself?

This forum is getting more and more immature by the day.

Dude me posting that is a Joke . Did d-wade honestly kill the season no , but it is funny to see that he was so the guy that said he did not like the deal . thats all im saying, trust me it took a LOT OF IDIOTS COMBINED to mess this season up not just wade

daleja424
10-16-2011, 08:48 PM
Glad to see you read the topic lol, Had a lil something to do with a guy named wade he plays for the heat i think?.... its okay if i was a heat fan i would not read anything either for a while at least

I suggest you learn to read. beasted's post literally said NOTHING about the HEAT. Here, I'll quote it for you:


I don't feel like finding the link... but I recall either Stern specifically saying himself the NBPA threw out the idea of if the players settled at 50%, would the owners concede most of the system changes, and Stern said the owners said blankly "No."

Can't have it both ways. Can't say the players are greedy, yet expect them to take the 50% AND take a bunch of system changes to limit their free agency. 50% split is a 15% paycut for all players. So I don't hold any stake in that article's stance.

Feel free to bold the part that is about Wade or the HEAT.

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 08:52 PM
Apparently, the owners were absolutely ready to settle at 50/50 and were prepared to negotiate on the finer points 24/7 to save the season. Union rep Kessler said he recalled that the players would support 50/50 as well.

Instead, 3 superstars barged in, and stated that 50/50 was not good enough.

Dwayne Wade felt disrespected when Stern pointed at him.

As I suspected all along, it's the egos of a very small minority of the game's oldest, most arrogant, and highest paid players who are also therefore the most influential, who "vetoed" the would be, almost proposed deal.

So, it's really Stern's out of touch arrogance and douchebaggery, and the douchebaggery, enormous egos and greed of just a handful of players or less.

i think this may have SOMETHING TO DO WITH WADE if you need me to bold the part that says DWAYNE WADE i will just let me know

CavsYanksDuke
10-16-2011, 08:53 PM
College basketball is going to be FUUUUUN.

beasted86
10-16-2011, 08:56 PM
Apparently, the owners were absolutely ready to settle at 50/50 and were prepared to negotiate on the finer points 24/7 to save the season. Union rep Kessler said he recalled that the players would support 50/50 as well.

Instead, 3 superstars barged in, and stated that 50/50 was not good enough.

Dwayne Wade felt disrespected when Stern pointed at him.

As I suspected all along, it's the egos of a very small minority of the game's oldest, most arrogant, and highest paid players who are also therefore the most influential, who "vetoed" the would be, almost proposed deal.

So, it's really Stern's out of touch arrogance and douchebaggery, and the douchebaggery, enormous egos and greed of just a handful of players or less.

i think this may have SOMETHING TO DO WITH WADE if you need me to bold the part that says DWAYNE WADE i will just let me know

Click the link and read the article please.

The 3 players who supposedly barged in were Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Kobe Bryant. Wade wasn't the one who said he didn't like any deal. The dust-up between him & Stern was a completely separate altercation. The part you quoted from the original poster was his own preface. The part in italics is the actual quoted article.

Supreme LA
10-16-2011, 09:00 PM
It's not a stereotype. If it had been Duncan, Nash, or even the actual members of the negotiating committee (!!!) who had put in 40 meetings (!!!), there might have been a chance. But hearing Garnett, Pierce, or even Kobe talk, do you get the impression of intelligence? I sure don't. I get the impression of fierce competitors, which is fine on the court, but I don't get the impression that these three belong in ANY type of bargaining session.

Kobe is actually a pretty intelligent person. KG & Pierce not so much.

daleja424
10-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Apparently, the owners were absolutely ready to settle at 50/50 and were prepared to negotiate on the finer points 24/7 to save the season. Union rep Kessler said he recalled that the players would support 50/50 as well.

Instead, 3 superstars barged in, and stated that 50/50 was not good enough.

Dwayne Wade felt disrespected when Stern pointed at him.

As I suspected all along, it's the egos of a very small minority of the game's oldest, most arrogant, and highest paid players who are also therefore the most influential, who "vetoed" the would be, almost proposed deal.

So, it's really Stern's out of touch arrogance and douchebaggery, and the douchebaggery, enormous egos and greed of just a handful of players or less.

i think this may have SOMETHING TO DO WITH WADE if you need me to bold the part that says DWAYNE WADE i will just let me know

Let me repeat myself for the 3rd time... BEASTED (The user you quoted!!!) didn't say anything about Wade or the HEAT...and you still felt the need to mock him because he is a HEAT fan.

Whether the OP mentioned Wade is inconsequential since you didn't quote the OP...you quoted beasted.

Eagles710
10-16-2011, 10:38 PM
Let me repeat myself for the 3rd time... BEASTED (The user you quoted!!!) didn't say anything about Wade or the HEAT...and you still felt the need to mock him because he is a HEAT fan.

Whether the OP mentioned Wade is inconsequential since you didn't quote the OP...you quoted beasted.

quoted Him Because he was a heat fan trying to make it okay that it was NOT dwayne wade's fault , AND THE TOPIC HAS THINGS TO DO WITH WADE! ... so since the topic hade something to do with the heat and wade, and he was saying it was not wade's fault was the REASON i said that, GOD YOUR WEIRD

beasted86
10-16-2011, 10:47 PM
quoted Him Because he was a heat fan trying to make it okay that it was NOT dwayne wade's fault , AND THE TOPIC HAS THINGS TO DO WITH WADE! ... so since the topic hade something to do with the heat and wade, and he was saying it was not wade's fault was the REASON i said that, GOD YOUR WEIRD

You're a really poor poster. Your logic is funny to say the least.

Like I said before, the quality of this site's posters is dropping.

daleja424
10-16-2011, 10:47 PM
quoted Him Because he was a heat fan trying to make it okay that it was NOT dwayne wade's fault , AND THE TOPIC HAS THINGS TO DO WITH WADE! ... so since the topic hade something to do with the heat and wade, and he was saying it was not wade's fault was the REASON i said that, GOD YOUR WEIRD

except the article had nothing to do with wade. the OP added something about wade, but the actual article was about kobe, kg, and paul pierce.

and beasted didnt say anything defending wade or the heat.

hard_candy
10-16-2011, 10:57 PM
The article does discuss Wade. Namely, that he was offended by Stern's finger pointing. Wade felt disrespected and told Stern not to lecture him like a child.

This is all about ego's especially of those of a handful of the highest paid players. There won't be any basketball until a day before the season is cancelled, if even then.

Look forward to having a lot more free time, girls.

BigCityofDreams
10-16-2011, 11:07 PM
I call them like i see them. I hope we lose the NBA until 2015.

:facepalm: craziest statement made on this board

THE GIPPER
10-16-2011, 11:10 PM
Kobe is actually a pretty intelligent person. KG & Pierce not so much.

Ya kobe can speak like 5 different languages hes a smart dude. But i think sometimes his arrogance gets in the way of his brain.

hard_candy
10-16-2011, 11:11 PM
Ya kobe can speak like 5 different languages hes a smart dude. But i think sometimes his arrogance gets in the way of his brain.

English, Italian....

Kevj77
10-16-2011, 11:16 PM
English, Italian....Spanish, but I've heard it is not to hard to learn if you already know Italian.

CavsYanksDuke
10-16-2011, 11:25 PM
^ It isn't. Kobe's a bright guy, the last people I thought he would do this with were Pierce and Garnett. I'll never forget Paul Pierce, after they won the title, proclaiming himself the best basketball player in the world.

I'm done with this season, now.

KKell2507
10-16-2011, 11:31 PM
and out of Kobe, Garnett, and Pierce, only one went to college.:facepalm:

thenetslegend
10-16-2011, 11:43 PM
and out of Kobe, Garnett, and Pierce, only one went to college.:facepalm:

and he is the worst out of the 3

KKell2507
10-16-2011, 11:48 PM
and he is the worst out of the 3

Exactly....

Where are the neutral guys that fans both understand and respect, but whos voices would also make a difference?

guys like elton brand, grant hill, tim duncan, jason kidd, shane battier

hard_candy
10-16-2011, 11:57 PM
They're smart enough not to say anything at all, just like all of the owners.

ink
10-17-2011, 12:06 AM
They're smart enough not to say anything at all, just like all of the owners.

That's a great point. They know it's just business and this is just how it happens. They're rebalancing a flawed system. That's all it is. It just may take a long time for that to happen.

C_Mund
10-17-2011, 12:07 AM
I'd imagine that the reason these three in particular are upset is because under a new cba the teams on which they won their championships would be much harder to assemble.

LakersMaster24
10-17-2011, 12:11 AM
I call them like i see them. I hope we lose the NBA until 2015.

You take that back! :speechless:

THE MTL
10-17-2011, 12:13 AM
Superstars shouldnt be undervalued in a CBA deal. If you gonna make a hard cap and decrease salaries its not fair to Lebron James who might increase your franchise's worth by 100 million himself.

Lebron and Bosh doubled the value of Miami (almost 200 million). And Cleveland's value fell by 100 million.

Those guys deserve to be paid what they are worth; therefore if you should designate one franchise player where salaries dont count against the cap.

ink
10-17-2011, 12:17 AM
I'd imagine that the reason these three in particular are upset is because under a new cba the teams on which they won their championships would be much harder to assemble.

No doubt.

LionsFan..LOL
10-17-2011, 12:34 AM
You take that back! :speechless:

Well to be fair he, like myself, is a Pistons fan so its not like we are gonna have a future until then anyway...