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six
10-11-2011, 04:09 PM
Would you rather build a team around a scoring PG or a passing PG.



Some example would be....



Scoring PG's:

Alen Iverson (Before he became an SG)

Derrick Rose (If you consider him a scoring PG)



Passing PG's:

Chris Paul

Rajon Rondo

MiamiWadeCounty
10-11-2011, 04:12 PM
Depends on the skill level between the two players. It is too broad to just say scoring vs. passing. For example, I would take Rose over Rondo but I would also take CP3 over Rose.

Bravo95
10-11-2011, 04:16 PM
Whichever one is the better defender. But choosing between these two, I'll take the distributor.

avon_barksdale
10-11-2011, 04:21 PM
usually id take them tablesetters. but you gotta factor in skills, like id take iverson over rondo any day. but id take cp3 over both them ****** if i had some shooters n slashers on my team

haggis
10-11-2011, 04:28 PM
All depends on the makeup of the rest of your team.

sep11ie
10-11-2011, 04:29 PM
I'd take CP3 over all of'em.

juno10
10-11-2011, 04:29 PM
for my team id say passing.

TheNumber37
10-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Not even a debate. Pass first PGs are always described as true point guards, the answer is right there. Better question: offensive center or defensive center.

Rockwilderz
10-11-2011, 04:38 PM
I rather have a scoring PG's..


Most championship teams that won the titles are known for having Scoring PG's with a decent assist ratio.. But if your point guard can score.. It creates more issues for the defending team. If he can do both.. THAT'S EVEN BETTER!

JordansBulls
10-11-2011, 04:39 PM
Ideally you take the passing PG no doubt. However if the rest of your cast can't score than the passing PG isn't going to help much.

Like if I don't have a guy who can score 20+ ppg on good efficiency at the other positions then that means I might need my PG to score.

If I have Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Dirk, Garnett, etc I'm taking a pass PG.
If I have as my next best guy on the team Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace, etc I'm taking a score first PG.

Also it depends who else is on the team. If I have a Tmac on my team a guy who is a distributer then I might prefer a scoring PG.

DwayneMVPwade
10-11-2011, 05:09 PM
depends on the team

Hellcrooner
10-11-2011, 05:11 PM
passing , always.

C-Dub
10-11-2011, 05:58 PM
I love watching scoring pgs (of course) but i voted passing pg. it really just depends on who you got on the rest of youre team tho.

MrfadeawayJB
10-11-2011, 06:10 PM
scoring. You can teach a guy how to pass, its not so easy to teach a guy to score

ChiSox219
10-11-2011, 06:12 PM
I prefer whichever player is better.

ChiSox219
10-11-2011, 06:12 PM
scoring. You can teach a guy how to pass, its not so easy to teach a guy to score

I disagree, I think it's quite the opposite actually.

Chill_Will_24
10-11-2011, 06:17 PM
I disagree, I think it's quite the opposite actually.

Agreed

llemon
10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
All depends on the makeup of the rest of your team.

There you go.

Chill_Will_24
10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
Ill take a guy that makes his teammates better and dishes the ball to his team the right way in the right spots as opposed to the guy that thinks score.

Evolution23
10-11-2011, 06:24 PM
Depends on the supporting cast

Bishnoff
10-11-2011, 06:25 PM
All depends on the makeup of the rest of your team.

This, but I generally tend towards passing PG's.

PhillyFaninLA
10-11-2011, 06:46 PM
Do you want a rebounding center or a 3 point shooting center?

I mean the purpose of a point guard is to run the offense, be a leader on the court, be a solid defender, and distribute the ball and scores when he has to.

The role of point guard is to do what needs to be done for the team he is on and being unselfish is a key to that.

So passing point guard.

Swashcuff
10-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Even as one of A.I.'s biggest fans I'll say passing. Then I can move A.I. over to SG and have him play off the ball where he's extremely deadly.

As JB said it depends on the scenario, I mean if I'm starting a team from scratch I'll take A.I. and Rose over Rondo any day of the week (not so much CP3).

BranWingss
10-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Passing PG all-day. Not too many teams win it all with a scoring PG either.

PhillyFaninLA
10-11-2011, 06:57 PM
I rather have a scoring PG's..


Most championship teams that won the titles are known for having Scoring PG's with a decent assist ratio.. But if your point guard can score.. It creates more issues for the defending team. If he can do both.. THAT'S EVEN BETTER!

Now that isn't accurate. Few teams with the top or even second scorer being the PG wins the title. It doesn't mean the PG can't score but it means they are pass first.

2011 Kidd - play maker that can score but is pass first and play make first
2010 Fisher - controls game not really a great score or passer but does what needs to be done
2009 Fisher - see above
2008 Rondo - pass first and defender (he is a much better offensive player today then in 2008 but is pass first)
2007 Parker - pass first
2006 Payton and Anderson - both pass first
2005 Parker - pass first

The guys are play makers and pass first not scorers first on the championship teams

Lucky.
10-11-2011, 07:02 PM
Pass first, That's why I think CP3 is the best PG and Rondo is the 2nd.

Cal827
10-11-2011, 07:07 PM
Depends.. In general, I would pick the Passing PG... However, if the team contains a shooting guard who can pass the ball very well or a point forward (E.g. Hedo in his peak), then I would pick the scorer (assuming that they can actually pass as well)

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 07:20 PM
I prefer whichever player is better.

This....

People overrate this pure PG **** and it is so stupid.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 07:21 PM
Even as one of A.I.'s biggest fans I'll say passing. Then I can move A.I. over to SG and have him play off the ball where he's extremely deadly.

As JB said it depends on the scenario, I mean if I'm starting a team from scratch I'll take A.I. and Rose over Rondo any day of the week (not so much CP3).
Whose opinion did you steal from this time? Just curious brah.


Pass first, That's why I think CP3 is the best PG and Rondo is the 2nd.Rondo 2nd best PG in the game? :facepalm:

Rondo is not even top 5.

Mishmin
10-11-2011, 07:29 PM
usually id take them tablesetters. but you gotta factor in skills, like id take iverson over rondo any day. but id take cp3 over both them ****** if i had some shooters n slashers on my team

except for today, right? Or any day recently or soon?

MR.TRIPDUB
10-11-2011, 07:44 PM
Ill take a guy that makes his teammates better and dishes the ball to his team the right way in the right spots as opposed to the guy that thinks score.

This. Prime Jason kidd over prime gilbert arenas.

Swashcuff
10-11-2011, 08:12 PM
I wouldn't call Tony Parker a pass first PG. IMO he's more of a scorer than a passer. What would be interesting is if someone would take the time to go over every Championship team in league history and see where their respective starting PG ranks on the team in scoring.

But hey I got some time on my hands this evening so I'll the last 30 years or so :D


Year Team Starting PG RS PPG Tm Rk PS PPG Tm Rk
2011 Dallas Mavericks Jason Kidd 7.9 5th 9.3 4th
2010 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher 7.5 7th 10.3 4th
2009 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher 9.9 5th 8.0 5th
2008 Boston Celtics Rajon Rondo 10.6 4th 10.2 4th
2007 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 18.6 2nd 20.8 2nd
2006 Miami Heat Jason Williams 12.3 3rd 9.3 4th
2005 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 16.6 2nd 17.2 3rd
2004 Detroit Pistons C. Billups 16.9 2nd 16.4 2nd
2003 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 15.5 2nd 14.7 2nd
2002 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher* 11.2 3rd 10.2 2nd
2001 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher* N/A N/A 13.4 3rd
2000 Los Angeles Lakers Ron Harper 7.0 4th 8.6 4th
1999 San Antonio Spurs Avery Johnson 9.7 4th 12.6 3rd
1998 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 9.3 5th 6.7 5th
1997 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 5.7 8th 7.5 4th
1996 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 7.4 6th 8.8 4th
1995 Houston Rockets Kenny Smith 10.4 3rd 10.8 5th
1994 Houston Rockets Kenny Smith 11.6 4th 10.8 5th
1993 Chicago Bulls BJ Armstrong 12.3 4th 11.4 3rd
1992 Chicago Bulls John Paxson 7.0 T6th 7.9 4th
1991 Chicago Bulls John Paxson 8.7 6th 8.2 5th
1990 Detroit Pistons Isiah Thomas 18.4 1st 20.5 1st
1989 Detroit Pistons Isiah Thomas 18.2 1st 18.2 1st
1988 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 19.6 3rd 19.9 2nd
1987 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 23.9 1st 21.8 2nd
1986 Boston Celtics Dennis Johnson 15.6 4th 16.2 3rd
1985 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.3 2nd 17.5 3rd
1984 Boston Celtics Dennis Johnson 13.2 4th 16.6 2nd
1983 Philadelphia 76ers Maurice Cheeks 12.5 4th 16.3 4th
1982 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.6 3rd 17.4 4th
1981 Boston Celtics Tiny Archibald 13.8 4th 15.6 3rd
1980 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.0 3rd 18.3 3rd


*Fisher played less than half his team's regular season games as a starter but he was their starter for the post season so for the purposes of this discussion he'll be seen as the Laker's starting PG. Also he played just 20 RS games in 00-01 so I don't think he should be ranked nor should his PPG be taken into consideration as a result.

Note: In order for a player to be ranked he must have played at least half the team's regular season games AND finish the season with that team. So even though Adrian Dantley scored more than Isiah did in 88-89 the fact that he was traded midway through the season eliminates him from being eligible.

To simplify a player is only eligible if he played 41 or more RS games AND finished the season with the team.

Summary:

Team Rank

RK RS PS
1st 3 2
2nd 5 7
3rd 6 8
4th 9 10
5th 3 5
6th 3 N/A
7th 1 N/A
8th 1 N/A

CeeDub15
10-11-2011, 08:15 PM
passing. But like others said it depends on the team, but its nice to have a guy that can create shots for others at the PG position.

JNA17
10-11-2011, 08:20 PM
passing point guard almost everytime. If I wanted scoring, I'll sign or trade for one. Scorers are much easier to find then guys who are pass first and pass effectively.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 08:23 PM
I wouldn't call Tony Parker a pass first PG. IMO he's more of a scorer than a passer. What would be interesting is if someone would take the time to go over every Championship team in league history and see where their respective starting PG ranks on the team in scoring.

But hey I got some time on my hands this evening so I'll the last 30 years or so :D


Year Team Starting PG RS PPG Tm Rk PS PPG Tm Rk
2011 Dallas Mavericks Jason Kidd 7.9 5th 9.3 4th
2010 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher 7.5 7th 10.3 4th
2009 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher 9.9 5th 8.0 5th
2008 Boston Celtics Rajon Rondo 10.6 4th 10.2 4th
2007 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 18.6 2nd 20.8 2nd
2006 Miami Heat Jason Williams 12.3 3rd 9.3 4th
2005 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 16.6 2nd 17.2 3rd
2004 Detroit Pistons C. Billups 16.9 2nd 16.4 2nd
2003 San Antonio Spurs Tony Parker 15.5 2nd 14.7 2nd
2002 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher* 11.2 3rd 10.2 2nd
2001 Los Angeles Lakers Derek Fisher* N/A N/A 13.4 3rd
2000 Los Angeles Lakers Ron Harper 7.0 4th 8.6 4th
1999 San Antonio Spurs Avery Johnson 9.7 4th 12.6 3rd
1998 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 9.3 5th 6.7 5th
1997 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 5.7 8th 7.5 4th
1996 Chicago Bulls Ron Harper 7.4 6th 8.8 4th
1995 Houston Rockets Kenny Smith 10.4 3rd 10.8 5th
1994 Houston Rockets Kenny Smith 11.6 4th 10.8 5th
1993 Chicago Bulls BJ Armstrong 12.3 4th 11.4 3rd
1992 Chicago Bulls John Paxson 7.0 T6th 7.9 4th
1991 Chicago Bulls John Paxson 8.7 6th 8.2 5th
1990 Detroit Pistons Isiah Thomas 18.4 1st 20.5 1st
1989 Detroit Pistons Isiah Thomas 18.2 1st 18.2 1st
1988 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 19.6 3rd 19.9 2nd
1987 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 23.9 1st 21.8 2nd
1986 Boston Celtics Dennis Johnson 15.6 4th 16.2 3rd
1985 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.3 2nd 17.5 3rd
1984 Boston Celtics Dennis Johnson 13.2 4th 16.6 2nd
1983 Philadelphia 76ers Maurice Cheeks 12.5 4th 16.3 4th
1982 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.6 3rd 17.4 4th
1981 Boston Celtics Tiny Archibald 13.8 4th 15.6 3rd
1980 Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson 18.0 3rd 18.3 3rd


*Fisher played less than half his team's regular season games as a starter but he was their starter for the post season so for the purposes of this discussion he'll be seen as the Laker's starting PG. Also he played just 20 RS games in 00-01 so I don't think he should be ranked nor should his PPG be taken into consideration as a result.

Note: In order for a player to be ranked he must have played at least half the team's regular season games AND finish the season with that team. So even though Adrian Dantley scored more than Isiah did in 88-89 the fact that he was traded midway through the season eliminates him from being eligible.

To simplify a player is only eligible if he played 41 or more RS games AND finished the season with the team.

Summary:

Team Rank

RK RS PS
1st 3 2
2nd 5 7
3rd 6 8
4th 9 10
5th 3 5
6th 3 N/A
7th 1 N/A
8th 1 N/A
Way to steal another post on another site. You really lack the ability to form an opinion don't you?


passing point guard almost everytime. If I wanted scoring, I'll sign or trade for one. Scorers are much easier to find then guys who are pass first and pass effectively.

Really?

So who you got, Rajon Rondo or Kevin Durant?

Swashcuff
10-11-2011, 08:27 PM
Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Over/Under 5 days before Pinnacleflash/BigDiseal32 is banned again for trolling? Especially trolling one poster in particular. :pity:

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 08:32 PM
I love how people are calling Iverson a PG in this thread when he is clearly a SG.

Use players like Westbrook, Payton, Marbury, Tony Parker, and Derrick Rose. Allen Iverson? LMAO.

I'll take Gary Payton over John Stockton because I care more about ability than role.

PrettyBoyJ
10-11-2011, 08:47 PM
I'd rather have a pass first PG but who can also score when needed.. a pass first pg who can't score (Rondo) isnt someone I'd build a team around

heyman321
10-11-2011, 09:05 PM
Passing point guard easily.

KnicksR4Real
10-11-2011, 09:07 PM
Passing

naps
10-11-2011, 10:25 PM
Depends on the rest of the team but without knowing the supporting cast I will always take a pass first point guard. I can't remember when was the last time a team won the championship when it's leading scorer was a PG; Definitely not in last 20 years.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Troll: One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

Over/Under 5 days before Pinnacleflash/BigDiseal32 is banned again for trolling? Especially trolling one poster in particular. :pity:

Over, how about you on that other site BlackJoker23?

MrfadeawayJB
10-11-2011, 11:16 PM
I disagree, I think it's quite the opposite actually.

I also feel that a scoring pg will attract the attention of the defense better, opening up for better and easier passing angles. If you have a pg who has no offensive game other than passing, the defense just plays off of them and sucks in the lane. Very few pure passing pg's even be in the league now in days

OGMarkWahlberg
10-12-2011, 07:25 PM
To answer the question a passing pg, but to be completely honest it truly does depend on the type of time that you have

Hawkeye15
10-12-2011, 07:36 PM
first off, to the OP, Paul can score 25 a night, and do it with top flight efficiency if he wanted. Now, if you are speaking of score first PG's like Rose, or Westbrook, versus a Rondo, or Kidd, then it all depends on the makeup of the roster. Can anyone tell me Rondo would be as good on a team that didn't have scorers to put the defense in position to have to respect his driving ability, and the scorers that will capitalize on his passing ability? Absolutely not would he regarded as good as he is now. And I don't think Rose would be the same kind of player if he was asked to give up 10 shots a night and create for a couple of top flight scorers

I think the answer is, it depends on the roster that player is in. If you are starting from pure scratch, give me the guy who is pretty good at both, rather than elite at one and subpar at the other

Hawkeye15
10-12-2011, 07:37 PM
If you held a gun to my mouth, I would prefer the scoring PG. A pass first PG who can't score well absolutely is dependent of having teammates that can indeed score. A high scoring PG can simply work on changing his mentality.

blastmasta26
10-12-2011, 09:29 PM
It's difficult to pick in a vacuum, usually the better option is dependent on the roster and the needs of the team. But if thinking in absolute extremes, a passing PG who can't score versus a scoring PG who can't pass, I would take the passing PG. A scorer would be able to create for himself, but would also hinder the development of other players while the passer would facilitate others' growth but not be much of a threat individually. However, it is easier to find scorers at other positions than play-makers, and I feel like the premier scoring PGs are usually inefficient in comparison to other elite perimeter scorers.

mdm692
10-12-2011, 09:33 PM
what about a shooting/scoring pg with pass first mentality/ability

Steve Nash

Fnom11
10-12-2011, 10:10 PM
Passing PG who can hit any open shot>everything.

Hustlenomics
10-12-2011, 10:38 PM
who says the passing point guard can't shoot? or the scoring point guard could shoot good?

SportsAndrew25
10-12-2011, 10:49 PM
I would love a guy who puts points on the board for my team.

sventhedog
10-12-2011, 11:37 PM
doesn't matter. bulls and lakers won without them.

heyman321
10-12-2011, 11:52 PM
doesn't matter. bulls and lakers won without them.

Lol. Only cause they happened to have the 1st and 2nd best shooting guards in history.

UPRock
10-13-2011, 12:17 AM
Chris Paul, because he can do both.

mttwlsn16
10-13-2011, 01:03 AM
All depends on the makeup of the rest of your team.

that sig is royally disturbing

on topic: i take cp3 over anyone

greek miami hea
10-13-2011, 07:31 AM
pure pg=pasing pg-organising the offense ;)

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2011, 09:10 AM
Will somebody please explain what 'making your teammates better' truly means,how can a PG make his teammates better if they arent that quality to begin with?

Do people just repeat what a person on TV say because they feel inferior to dissect **** before they repeat it?

Does that mean working with them in offseason so they can see your work ethic and get better and conditioning and strength and shoot a 1000 j's and free throws and 3's(shouldnt he do that anyway being a prof athlete)? does that mean playing 5 on 5 during summer and developing chemistry?

I kno one thing for sure and 2 for certain, aint nobody in the history of the NBA has ever made a teammate a 'better' player, maybe he made the game 'easier' for him teammates by drawing double and triple teams and then when he makes the right decision and pass out and the teammate isnt capable of hitting a wide open shot then is it the opposite and his teammates making him look like ****?

You either can play great off top or you develop into something good,but its not dependent on the next man, you got to bring your own **** to the table and some have it more than others

Just getting sick of the misguiding info spreading around in sportsland from players like MAGIC getting a pass for making a league MVP/NBA Champion(ALCINDOR) prior to joining LAKERS and a top college player who a ship on college level comes thru as another #1pick(WORTHY), so thats 3 total #1picks and MAGIC(#1 pick also) has 2 to pass to,and he makes them better,or how about the ALCINDOR guy who had a shot that nobody could stop or duplicate,did MAGIC make that skyhook better? get the hell out of here

Just like when NASH played for stacked teams in MAVS/SUNS people kept saying he makes them better and im like they can all ball for most part and AMARE/DIRK are allnba caliber yr in and out, but when they went to that slow down PORTER style his assists dropped off then when they went back to MIKE D style via GENTRY then his stats went back up and the bs 'he makes his teammates' better starting popping up again but failed to realize it was the MIKE D run n gun system

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 09:16 AM
Will somebody please explain what 'making your teammates better' truly means,how can a PG make his teammates better if they arent that quality to begin with?

Do people just repeat what a person on TV say because they feel inferior to dissect **** before they repeat it?

Does that mean working with them in offseason so they can see your work ethic and get better and conditioning and strength and shoot a 1000 j's and free throws and 3's(shouldnt he do that anyway being a prof athlete)? does that mean playing 5 on 5 during summer and developing chemistry?

I kno one thing for sure and 2 for certain, aint nobody in the history of the NBA has ever made a teammate a 'better' player, maybe he made the game 'easier' for him teammates by drawing double and triple teams and then when he makes the right decision and pass out and the teammate isnt capable of hitting a wide open shot then is it the opposite and his teammates making him look like ****?

You either can play great off top or you develop into something good,but its not dependent on the next man, you got to bring your own **** to the table and some have it more than others

Just getting sick of the misguiding info spreading around in sportsland from players like MAGIC getting a pass for making a league MVP/NBA Champion(ALCINDOR) prior to joining LAKERS and a top college player who a ship on college level comes thru as another #1pick(WORTHY), so thats 3 total #1picks and MAGIC(#1 pick also) has 2 to pass to,and he makes them better,or how about the ALCINDOR guy who had a shot that nobody could stop or duplicate,did MAGIC make that skyhook better? get the hell out of here

Just like when NASH played for stacked teams in MAVS/SUNS people kept saying he makes them better and im like they can all ball for most part and AMARE/DIRK are allnba caliber yr in and out, but when they went to that slow down PORTER style his assists dropped off then when they went back to MIKE D style via GENTRY then his stats went back up and the bs 'he makes his teammates' better starting popping up again but failed to realize it was the MIKE D run n gun system


Do you really not know what making your teammates better means? For a PG, its understanding your teammates strenghts, and weaknesses to the degree that you get them the ball in the best possible situations for their abilities to be optimized. Its about having the ability to run an offense and get 4 other guys in harmony, and where they need to be in order for your team to succeed. Great floor leaders help turn average starters into all star caliber players.

Obviously some work better in different systems, that is the same for any athlete in the world. But you are alluding to pace basically, and we can set the numbers equal when we account for it. Its simple.

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2011, 09:49 AM
What great floor leaders have turned avg starters into ALLSTAR caliber players? theres no way an avg player can be allstar caliber if he didnt have it in him like i said, and when i said better i meant right off top, not playing with him for yrs like when JORDAN got PIPP and PIPP only put up 7ppg his rookie yr but blossomed later, i would feel JORDANs work ethic rubbed off on him and maybe even vice versa

Right so if they strengths of your teammates is hustle and diving then how do you make them better on offensive end?
So running an offense makes your team better? getting a guy where he needs to be to succeed is the coaches job no matter if they superstar or role player right? so how can you do that when you cant run no offense thru that guy because he's not capable,how do you make him make a shot or layup just because you put him in position?

Just saying this cause i just played ball and i had to run the PG and create/score for the entire team and i was drawing doubles and switch offs from the other team but my teammates couldnt make a lay up or a 8ft jumper to save our teams life, so i was asking since i made the game 'easier' and i made sure everybody was in position to make a play,they just couldnt make no baskets so how did i make them 'better'?

so did i fail at making my teammates better? even the players on the sideline was like take over dont pass no more and im like they doublin me and helping off my teammates who couldnt make a layup/shot, and its like that from gym/park ball to NCAA to NBA ..thats reason i ask how do you make 'teammates' better and its usually from a NASH/MAGIC type clan saying that, so far from the truth cause they had finishers from that MAVS/SUNS squad to that LAKER showtime, they made nobody better, just made each other individually more dangerous dynamic when u combined 3 #1 overall picks like they had in LAKERLAND

How did NASH make all that talent in MAVS and SUNS better? he didnt at all,they all could play from J.JOHNSON to AMARE to MARION to BELL to RICHARDSON to BARBOSA to DIRK to VAN EXEL to FINLEY and so on, what about ALCINDOR and WORTHY, im just noting these 2 guys cause i hear it most on here and throughout sportsland on those 2 players, and im thinking to myself they played with some of the most talent ever,period

daleja424
10-13-2011, 09:50 AM
If I have to pick one... I'd go scorer... but really you need a balance.

Having a great passing PG does nothing for your team coming down the stretch when you need buckets unless you have a great scorer he can pass to...

justinnum1
10-13-2011, 09:59 AM
Passing for sure

Da Knicks
10-13-2011, 10:07 AM
What great floor leaders have turned avg starters into ALLSTAR caliber players? theres no way an avg player can be allstar caliber if he didnt have it in him like i said, and when i said better i meant right off top, not playing with him for yrs like when JORDAN got PIPP and PIPP only put up 7ppg his rookie yr but blossomed later, i would feel JORDANs work ethic rubbed off on him and maybe even vice versa

Right so if they strengths of your teammates is hustle and diving then how do you make them better on offensive end?
So running an offense makes your team better? getting a guy where he needs to be to succeed is the coaches job no matter if they superstar or role player right? so how can you do that when you cant run no offense thru that guy because he's not capable,how do you make him make a shot or layup just because you put him in position?

Just saying this cause i just played ball and i had to run the PG and create/score for the entire team and i was drawing doubles and switch offs from the other team but my teammates couldnt make a lay up or a 8ft jumper to save our teams life, so i was asking since i made the game 'easier' and i made sure everybody was in position to make a play,they just couldnt make no baskets so how did i make them 'better'?

so did i fail at making my teammates better? even the players on the sideline was like take over dont pass no more and im like they doublin me and helping off my teammates who couldnt make a layup/shot, and its like that from gym/park ball to NCAA to NBA ..thats reason i ask how do you make 'teammates' better and its usually from a NASH/MAGIC type clan saying that, so far from the truth cause they had finishers from that MAVS/SUNS squad to that LAKER showtime, they made nobody better, just made each other individually more dangerous dynamic when u combined 3 #1 overall picks like they had in LAKERLAND

How did NASH make all that talent in MAVS and SUNS better? he didnt at all,they all could play from J.JOHNSON to AMARE to MARION to BELL to RICHARDSON to BARBOSA to DIRK to VAN EXEL to FINLEY and so on, what about ALCINDOR and WORTHY, im just noting these 2 guys cause i hear it most on here and throughout sportsland on those 2 players, and im thinking to myself they played with some of the most talent ever,period

CP3 made West an all-star and Tyson Chandler played very well under him as well. The players around him if they are not scrubs can be pushed to all-star level. If you have Jarred Jeffries then your just in deep trouble.

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 10:16 AM
what CP3 did to West is a perfect example.

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2011, 10:17 AM
West could play tho, its not like he didnt have 'it' coming out of college, and CHANDLER was top 3 or so pick ripe out of high school(rightfully so,no bust)with ALLSTAR potential for big and WEST was borderline,he wasnt on no RAMBIS or VARAJEO level of player,never

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2011, 10:17 AM
So 1 player of out 70yrs of NBA ball...CP3 is the only player ever to do that? i rest my case on that note

i would take this guy right here http://youtu.be/tPGKNYgechQ

Got upmost respect for those who can score and create for others equally and can attack basket and shoot equally and unreal athletic ability to match, Bubbachuck

Rentzias
10-13-2011, 10:42 AM
what CP3 did to West is a perfect example.
I was looking at CP3-West earlier as well, but I guess I'd like to see this clarified as well. West averaged crap minutes and was low on the depth chart before CP3 came in. He got the minutes and has been consistently a 19 and 7 type of guy. When CP3 missed half the season, West's production didn't drop off during the games CP3 missed either.

daleja424
10-13-2011, 10:54 AM
But CP3 can shoot and score at a high level too. To me this is more like who would you rather have: Rajon Rondo or Russel Westbrook?

Rondo is a great asset for a lot of the game...but down the stretch he becomes a liability. And if not for him being surrounded by great players... his team would be terrible.

3RDASYSTEM
10-13-2011, 11:38 AM
Yea CP3 can i just seen it more from AI over course of career and CP3 maxed out at Conf Finals so far with similar talent tho individually WEST/CHANDLER combo is better than MCKIE/MUTOMBO in my book especially at the stages they(AI/CP3) played with those guys, but yea i said same thing in 2008 and that type of talent he carried to KOBE having GASOL to lean on,so he got robbed out of that MVP and he also wear #3 so its a nice transition from AI3 to CP3, they both killers AI was just 'forced' to play SG at 5'10'' and not allowd to run point more often til later in Sixer career, but if you give AI/CP3 horses like NASH had between MAVS/SUNS squad then people would see how good those 2 can really be,too late for Bubba tho,CP3 get over to a Knicks/Blazers type talent,then watch the **** out(especially if he can get there via free agency and they dont have to gut roster just to acquire him)

Yea RONDO is big time liability, with me u got to have the skill set and athletic ability to match, thats what makes a player special ala AI/CP3/ISAIAH , they can play above the rim, especially BUBBA hes a better athlete/scorer than CP3 with CP3 being better setup man,but those 3 could/can do pretty much anything at will they wanted to do on the court,thats special in a big mans league

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 11:52 AM
CP3 is much better than either AI or Thomas dude.

Stockton, Kidd, Magic, Nash. These are more examples of players who make their teammates better, because of what I said earlier. They realize where their teammates need to ball to be most effective, they see matchup problems quicker than most, they see passing lanes, they make better decisions.

Are there many PG's in history on the level of the guys I listed? No. That is why they are special playmakers.

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 11:53 AM
ugh, another AI fan boy. Awesome

MR.TRIPDUB
10-13-2011, 02:16 PM
A good example of pg making a teamate better is mikki moore. A dleaguer before coming to the nets and jason kidd made him a serviceable big man averaging double figures and even led the nba in field goal pctg. He was even able to get a big contract after that. Jkidd definitely makes his teamates look better. Same with kmart, rjeff, kristic, lou harris, aaron williams almost all njnets players during the 2 finals appearances.

However after kidd, their play all went down. I dknt know how you make of that. Thay didnt become better players, they only played better with jkidd.

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 03:14 PM
I can give you an example of a player that does not make those around him better

Jonny Flynn

Rentzias
10-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Replacing Marbury with Kidd on the Nets = made those players better.

Replacing Marbury with Nash on Suns = made those players better.

Maybe I shouldn't be using Marbury as the example.

Stack_NJNets
10-13-2011, 05:04 PM
Passing.

PlezPlayDKnicks
10-13-2011, 06:09 PM
CP3 is much better than either AI or Thomas dude.

Stockton, Kidd, Magic, Nash. These are more examples of players who make their teammates better, because of what I said earlier. They realize where their teammates need to ball to be most effective, they see matchup problems quicker than most, they see passing lanes, they make better decisions.

Are there many PG's in history on the level of the guys I listed? No. That is why they are special playmakers.

ISIAH was a bad mamma jamma. Yeah he had a terrific cast but he was the catalyst on that team. That kill attitude was from the 1 -5 position.

Hawkeye15
10-13-2011, 07:22 PM
ISIAH was a bad mamma jamma. Yeah he had a terrific cast but he was the catalyst on that team. That kill attitude was from the 1 -5 position.

he was awesome. Give CP3 a roster of studs, and you will see him holding a trophy over his head.

hugepatsfan
10-13-2011, 07:54 PM
No particuar style is better. Different teams needs different fits. Pieces have to work together.

If I'm starting from scratch, I think a passing PG is the better option. But you draft/sign players to an existing roster that may need different things - not a blank team. This isn't NBA 2K12 fantasy draft.

RZZZA
10-13-2011, 11:29 PM
I prefer whichever player is better.

thread should have ended after this post.

NBA-GMaster
10-13-2011, 11:35 PM
Passing PG, makes his teammates better..

RZZZA
10-13-2011, 11:46 PM
You take whichever player is better, end of story.

you're not gonna ever want a passing player so much that you take Ricky Rubio over Derrick Rose. You're not gonna ever want a scoring PG so much that you take Ty Lawson over Chris Paul.

nitric
10-14-2011, 04:46 PM
So according to this thread people would rather have Jose Calderon over Russell Westbrook

MR.TRIPDUB
10-14-2011, 11:36 PM
So according to this thread people would rather have Jose Calderon over Russell Westbrook

If you believe this then you have a simplistic mind. What if the polls went the other way? Youre gonna ask if people would take nate robinson over rondo?

ddhulett
10-14-2011, 11:58 PM
who cares its football season and MLB playoffs

juno10
10-15-2011, 12:22 AM
You take whichever player is better, end of story.

you're not gonna ever want a passing player so much that you take Ricky Rubio over Derrick Rose. You're not gonna ever want a scoring PG so much that you take Ty Lawson over Chris Paul.

thats a bad example since chris paul is probably a better scorer than lawson, maybe you should have used steph curry - rondo

Raph12
10-15-2011, 01:30 AM
Wow only 17 Rose/Bulls fans have been on PSD in 3 days ;)

gilly
10-15-2011, 07:58 AM
It really depends who you have elsewhere. On teams like the '01 Sixers and '11 Bulls, where you have great defenders elsewhere and not a whole deal of offensive threat, I'd obviously rather have a Rose or Iverson.

However, if I'm the '08 Celtics and I have two offensive stars like Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, I take a Rajon Rondo, Chris Paul-esq distributing PG.

If I'm starting a franchise and I can have any point guard, I want Chris Paul. Mainly a distributor, great D, great leader.

3RDASYSTEM
10-15-2011, 08:53 AM
HAWKEYE15 CP3 is nowhere near much better than ISAIAH/AI,hes under those dudes and i dont care about efficiency just win baby

And stop it with the NASH/STOCKTON making teammates better, KIDD/AI made teammates better, NASH played for the same SUNS team when he got drafted so stop it just stop it and got traded i guess for making his teammates so much better the first time around? and STOCKTON played with a sure fire HOF who im sure had something to do with making they teammates better, thats the biggest crock of **** in history of sports, another professional athlete making another prof athlete better? i sware the media could make yall believe anything, its making the game 'easier' for the teammates, not making them actually better, you have to be able to get it done and some do it at higher level,others not so

CP3 is a beast but until he takes inferior talent to FINALS the edge will always go to AI and if he gets to the Knicks/Blazers type talent then the radar will most def be on him cause AI never played with top flight talent til 12yrs later into league,so kill the fanboy dialogue cause i know what im speaking on and if im a fanboy answer this: wats tougher to do, carry a franchise for 3yrs solo or carry one for 10plus yrs solo? let me know how u feel on that

Are u a cp3 fanboy HAWKEYE? AI could do both at high level but in PHILLY he was required/forced to play SG at the big ole height of 5'10'', CP3 couldnt come close to running a full season(let alone for 4-5yrs) at SG and they basically same height,go figure

http://youtu.be/X3ry-IFLUSo - he was so good that he played the same way/pace from 93-2008, outside of FAVRE/BARRY SANDS wat other athlete had that type of run in prof.sports?
no guard had the combo of skill/athletic ability at this guy level from inception of NBA ever and the only guy who could score from perimeter or attack paint equally from day 1 , and get back at me when you figure out its just IVERSON that had both at top level coming into NBA,he didnt develop nothing just honed his skill and im glad he quit dunking after his rookie yr so much and focused on running baseline to baseline pulling 3s/j's, people dont realize he scored like JORDAN/DURANT/R.MILLER/RIP/PEJA all wrapped in one at 5'10'', stop with the fanboy talk and read facts

Why do people not understand this guy was this good as a junior in HIGH SCHOOL?he never played his senior yr, and he stayed same at G'TOWN and on to NBA and he gets hated on for not having no weakness in his game but turnovers

Aint that how u judge a player ,on how good he has been since inception? a NBA developing player cant do **** for me in a must win right now society

eugene
10-15-2011, 11:23 AM
chauncey billups or gary payton :)

MR.TRIPDUB
10-15-2011, 11:27 AM
chauncey billups or gary payton :)

Which is which? I think they are pretty similar type.

ivylleague1'
10-15-2011, 12:03 PM
CP3 is much better than either AI or Thomas dude.

Stockton, Kidd, Magic, Nash. These are more examples of players who make their teammates better, because of what I said earlier. They realize where their teammates need to ball to be most effective, they see matchup problems quicker than most, they see passing lanes, they make better decisions.

Are there many PG's in history on the level of the guys I listed? No. That is why they are special playmakers.


Hawkeye15 name a team that was built around a passing PG since you have been watching the NBA. I bet you none !!!

dbramforskins21
10-15-2011, 12:10 PM
In a PG, I want someone who gets about 10 to 15 points a game and averages 8+ assists. And to the person that said CP3 is better than AI...I bet if you asked CP3 himself he'd tell you he probably idolized AI as a kid. AI is one of the greatest of all time, CP3 is on his way but not right now.

ivylleague1'
10-15-2011, 12:19 PM
CP3 is much better than either AI or Thomas dude.

Stockton, Kidd, Magic, Nash. These are more examples of players who make their teammates better, because of what I said earlier. They realize where their teammates need to ball to be most effective, they see matchup problems quicker than most, they see passing lanes, they make better decisions.

Are there many PG's in history on the level of the guys I listed? No. That is why they are special playmakers.


Which CP3 ? I hope you are not refering to the one in New Orleans. If in a dream you find him better than AI (a perennial top 10 in scoring, assists, and steals), four time scoring champion, NBA record holder in steals in a playoff game, MVP, an outstanding Basketball player. And you also find him better than the great Isiah Thomas then he must be the best player to ever play basketball in the NBA.

juno10
10-15-2011, 12:45 PM
chris paul isn't just a pass first pg he can do it all.

blastmasta26
10-15-2011, 02:07 PM
Which CP3 ? I hope you are not refering to the one in New Orleans. If in a dream you find him better than AI (a perennial top 10 in scoring, assists, and steals), four time scoring champion, NBA record holder in steals in a playoff game, MVP, an outstanding Basketball player. And you also find him better than the great Isiah Thomas then he must be the best player to ever play basketball in the NBA.
What? You don't have to be the best player ever to better than AI or Isiah Thomas, neither of those guys are top 10 all time.

MR.TRIPDUB
10-15-2011, 02:30 PM
Hawkeye15 name a team that was built around a passing PG since you have been watching the NBA. I bet you none !!!

Cousy's celtics, kidd's suns and nets, cp3's hornets.

Tony_Starks
10-15-2011, 07:13 PM
CP3 is much better than either AI or Thomas dude.

Stockton, Kidd, Magic, Nash. These are more examples of players who make their teammates better, because of what I said earlier. They realize where their teammates need to ball to be most effective, they see matchup problems quicker than most, they see passing lanes, they make better decisions.

Are there many PG's in history on the level of the guys I listed? No. That is why they are special playmakers.


Whoa whoa whoa! You're a reasonable man, stop the blasphemy! No way CP3 is better than Isiah "playing on one leg and still lighting it up in the finals" Thomas or Allen "singlehandedly took a team full of offensively anemic role players to the finals and even took a game" Iverson. No way. Maybe we'll be able to say that at the conclusion of his career but as for now uh-uh......

RealistRocket34
10-15-2011, 09:57 PM
I wouldn't call Tony Parker a pass first PG. IMO he's more of a scorer than a passer. What would be interesting is if someone would take the time to go over every Championship team in league history and see where their respective starting PG ranks on the team in scoring.

But hey I got some time on my hands this evening so I'll the last 30 years or so :D

*Fisher played less than half his team's regular season games as a starter but he was their starter for the post season so for the purposes of this discussion he'll be seen as the Laker's starting PG. Also he played just 20 RS games in 00-01 so I don't think he should be ranked nor should his PPG be taken into consideration as a result.

Note: In order for a player to be ranked he must have played at least half the team's regular season games AND finish the season with that team. So even though Adrian Dantley scored more than Isiah did in 88-89 the fact that he was traded midway through the season eliminates him from being eligible.

To simplify a player is only eligible if he played 41 or more RS games AND finished the season with the team.

Summary:

Team Rank

RK RS PS
1st 3 2
2nd 5 7
3rd 6 8
4th 9 10
5th 3 5
6th 3 N/A
7th 1 N/A
8th 1 N/A
Holy crap dude, did you really have to steal my post from another site WORD FOR WORD? Dude learn to come up with your own opinion. That is just sad. :facepalm:

Jay
10-15-2011, 10:09 PM
Holy crap dude, did you really have to steal my post from another site WORD FOR WORD? Dude learn to come up with your own opinion. That is just sad. :facepalm:

Ppl never learn with plagiarism, do they?


I'm not gonna lie, it had me laughing. Dumb dumb dumb

RealistRocket34
10-15-2011, 10:19 PM
Ppl never learn with plagiarism, do they?


I'm not gonna lie, it had me laughing. Dumb dumb dumb

Seriously, they must not teach that stuff in his country in wherever the heck he is from. Too bad it is perfectly legal and fine on internet forums/message boards.

Weak.

MR.TRIPDUB
10-16-2011, 02:48 AM
Holy crap dude, did you really have to steal my post from another site WORD FOR WORD? Dude learn to come up with your own opinion. That is just sad. :facepalm:

wow really? does this mean that pinnacleflash was telling the truth?

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Swashcuff
10-26-2011, 09:40 PM
Ppl never learn with plagiarism, do they?


I'm not gonna lie, it had me laughing. Dumb dumb dumb

I just read this. :laugh2:

That guy is a friggin troll dude. He has created more than 10 dupes on PSD and has attacked me on numerous forums.

Swashcuff
10-26-2011, 09:42 PM
wow really? does this mean that pinnacleflash was telling the truth?

He's a lair PinnacleFlash/BigDiesel32/Soxsnation4life/RealistRocket34/TheAdmiral3 etc etc are all one in the same. However he is able to mask his IP so the mods are having a tough time keeping up with him. He's flaming me on more than one forum. He's is psycho troll with no life.

Greet
10-26-2011, 09:42 PM
What do you consider scoring pg and passing pg?

scoring like: 20+ ppg/5-6 apg

passing like: 10 ppg/10+ apg

?