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spreadeagle
10-11-2011, 05:08 AM
The real point of this story is not Caron Butler, but rather what Caron Butler could represent for the Miami Heat.

In speaking with Chris Tomasson of Fox Sports, Butler — the free agent last with the Dallas Mavericks and coming off major knee surgery — said he would consider coming back to play for Miami.

“It’d be interesting,” Butler said in an interview with FOX Sports Florida about the prospect of returning to the Heat.

Asked whether Miami is on his list, Butler eventually said, “Yes.” But he didn’t want to talk too much about the Heat, which is understandable

Butler will have a few teams reach out to him, although it’s hard to envision him landing anywhere but back with Dallas. The NBA champions were better with him on the court last season and if he returns they improve their chances at a repeat. If Mark Cuban wants someone, he usually gets them.

Plus, adding another quality wing player to go behind Dwyane Wade and LeBron James is far from the Heat’s biggest need. That is not where they need to spend their resources (and it will take a few bucks to get Butler).

But for Heat fans there is a larger point — really good free agents are thinking about the Heat. They realize the Heat are a team where they will be in the running for a title, where they can live in a warm weather city and a state with no state tax.

The Heat need to put better role players around their stars (and keep said role players healthy, unlike last season). The likely amnesty clause in the new labor deal — which will have teams releasing overpaid players but some guys who can contribute in a role spot — are the kind of things that matter to the Heat.

Bottom line: at the end of a frenzied free agent period, the Heat will be a better team than last season. That should scare the rest of the league.

They dont need his position really but the amnesty clause could really help the Heat if all the overpaid "but still talented" players decide that since they have already been paid might as sign for the minimum and have a great shot at a ring ....and southbeach :eyebrow:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/10/caron-butler-says-he-would-consider-playing-for-heat/

JNA17
10-11-2011, 05:18 AM
Heat need a bigman and a PG who's not a liability. Caron Butler would be a great role player off the bench but him signing a vet min. is as likely as Charlie Sheen getting back with Two and a Half Men.

Wade>You
10-11-2011, 05:51 AM
The Heat needs a quality backup for Wade and James. They'll happily take Caron if they can, although Jamal Crawford is still a better option if they can get him.

greek miami hea
10-11-2011, 06:10 AM
Heat need a bigman and a PG who's not a liability. Caron Butler would be a great role player off the bench but him signing a vet min. is as likely as Charlie Sheen getting back with Two and a Half Men.

why he left the show?

UPRock
10-11-2011, 08:34 AM
Nooo, what we need is a center, not another Mike Miller.

daleja424
10-11-2011, 08:59 AM
I hope this is what all the good players do. I hope that they flock to the big markets to spite the owners. Owners are trying to control where these guys can and cannot play... well I hope the players throw it in their faces and join the good teams anyways.

One of the main reasons we are in a lockout is that the owners are trying to prevent a team from following in the HEAT's footsteps and grabbing alot of talent. They are punishing everyone even though the HEAT followed all the rules they themselves agreed to in 1999.

ShakeN'Bake
10-11-2011, 09:06 AM
Free agency is going to be crazy this year. I wonder what kind of time frame players are going to have to sign.

daleja424
10-11-2011, 09:42 AM
Also, I wouldnt be surprised if this HARD BALLING by some owners meant that players steered clear of those places all together. Like can you really imagine that any player wants to play for Dan Gilbert?... I can't.

Dade County
10-11-2011, 11:15 AM
I would love to see him back in Dade County :)



Also, I wouldnt be surprised if this HARD BALLING by some owners meant that players steered clear of those places all together. Like can you really imagine that any player wants to play for Dan Gilbert?... I can't.

Very GOOD point right here.

The owners can not control player movement, they will have to sacrifice this year before anything can really change.

nickdymez
10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
why he left the show?

Which is why his point was great

Shmontaine
10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
if the players don't care about money, why are we still in a lockout???

they will go to the highest bidder, as always...

nickdymez
10-11-2011, 11:28 AM
Nooo, what we need is a center, not another Mike Miller.

Caron Butler is by no means, Mike Miller

GhostfaceDrilla
10-11-2011, 11:34 AM
Caron Butler is by no means, Mike Miller

Yeah that was flat out ignorant.. Mike Miller is complete garbage. This is just Heat fans giving no credit to any other player outside of Miami.

Toxeryll
10-11-2011, 11:35 AM
why would he wanna go to a loser?

Lucky.
10-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Haha, Could you imagine Crawford AND Caron coming off the bench? I know it wont happen, But....

daleja424
10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
haha... bring down nene too... just make an all-star team

Shmontaine
10-11-2011, 11:48 AM
the mindset of a nba professional player according to some on psd:

"We won't allow you owners to tell us we have to take a paycut... we will play for peanuts on our own accord!!"



and further, what about nba players has given some of you the theory that they will look at amnesty as a way to play for vet min on winning team??? i would imagine the players who get amnestied will look at it more down the line of "instead of making 16 mill this year, i could make 24..." or "instead of making 10 million, i could make 15" but i'm probably wrong here, for surely these nba players care not for money...

with a shortened season, salaries will be lower already and players will be looking to get as much as possible to make up the shortage IMO...

shep33
10-11-2011, 11:51 AM
He won't play much at all if he does go there. Miller will eventually get healthy, and we already know, Bron and Wade eat up all the minutes at the 2-3 spot. They need to get a big and a backup pg, I think Chalmers is better than people give him credit for.

daleja424
10-11-2011, 11:56 AM
the mindset of a nba professional player according to some on psd:

"We won't allow you owners to tell us we have to take a paycut... we will play for peanuts on our own accord!!"



and further, what about nba players has given some of you the theory that they will look at amnesty as a way to play for vet min on winning team??? i would imagine the players who get amnestied will look at it more down the line of "instead of making 16 mill this year, i could make 24..." or "instead of making 10 million, i could make 15" but i'm probably wrong here, for surely these nba players care not for money...

with a shortened season, salaries will be lower already and players will be looking to get as much as possible to make up the shortage IMO...

The players have demonstrated a willingness to take a significant paycut already... so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

And it has already been reported that the hold up is system issues right now. The owners are trying too hard to prevent the big markets from making good teams... which is why I supported the idea of throwing the system in their face by going to the big markets anyways.

Lucky.
10-11-2011, 11:59 AM
PG chalmers/Bibby
SG Wade/Miller
SF LeBron/Caron
PF Bosh/Haslem
C Anthony/FA

They have to sign A center and if Caron was to come to the Heat, I'd have to say they would be the favorite. There probably the favorite now. :ohno:

beasted86
10-11-2011, 12:06 PM
PG chalmers/Bibby
SG Wade/Miller
SF LeBron/Caron
PF Bosh/Haslem
C Anthony/FA

They have to sign A center and if Caron was to come to the Heat, I'd have to say they would be the favorite. There probably the favorite now. :ohno:

Heat are at the least favorites to come out of the East for the next 3-4 years unless a top team makes a blockbuster trade. Until they win a championship, they won't be a favorite to win it yet.

Lucky.
10-11-2011, 12:10 PM
^ I don't see the Bulls beating you guys, If the Knicks make A move though, Your gonna have to worry. I just think D-rose is overrated because he takes too many unnecessary shots.

Shmontaine
10-11-2011, 12:11 PM
The players have demonstrated a willingness to take a significant paycut already... so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

And it has already been reported that the hold up is system issues right now. The owners are trying too hard to prevent the big markets from making good teams... which is why I supported the idea of throwing the system in their face by going to the big markets anyways.

you're idea of significant is 15% or whatever the BRI proposal would do to their salaries, and i would agree, that's significant...

but going from 6-8 mil down to 1.2 mill is much more than significant, it's practical elimination... and the i would doubt many players would do it...

no, the report was the meeting was only about system issues, and not BRI... what report says they've agreed on a BRI???

the owners are challenging the players to make a real hard decision... do you want to make 6-8 mill, or play for the vet min?? many, if not all, on psd (less distorted by riches) would see this as a very easy choice... you go for the winning team and vet min, right??? i'm sure most of people on here would... it's still 1.2 million dollars... but IMO players wouldn't see this the same way...

beasted86
10-11-2011, 12:18 PM
the owners are challenging the players to make a real hard decision... do you want to make 6-8 mill, or play for the vet min?? many, if not all, on psd (less distorted by riches) would see this as a very easy choice... you go for the winning team and vet min, right??? i'm sure most of people on here would... it's still 1.2 million dollars... but IMO players wouldn't see this the same way...

Where do you get this figure from?

Only a handful of teams have cap space each summer not tied to re-signing their own free agents, and the MLE has never even hit $6M (highest ever $5.8M).... aside from this, it is speculated owners are seeking reduction in the MLE initial salary as well as raises on all contracts.

Shmontaine
10-11-2011, 12:29 PM
Where do you get this figure from?

Only a handful of teams have cap space each summer not tied to re-signing their own free agents, and the MLE has never even hit $6M (highest ever $5.8M).... aside from this, it is speculated owners are seeking reduction in the MLE initial salary as well as raises on all contracts.

I just grabbed it based on the price range that players turn down to sign the MLE with a contending team... it may be a tad high... it's also the price range i would imagine some of these speculated amnestied players could demand...

and yeah, that's also my point.. the mid level players haven't had to pick in the recent past between making good money and playing for contender... they got both with the MLE.... thus weakening the stance of small market teams ability to recruit talent...

beasted86
10-11-2011, 01:05 PM
I just grabbed it based on the price range that players turn down to sign the MLE with a contending team... it may be a tad high... it's also the price range i would imagine some of these speculated amnestied players could demand...

and yeah, that's also my point.. the mid level players haven't had to pick in the recent past between making good money and playing for contender... they got both with the MLE.... thus weakening the stance of small market teams ability to recruit talent...

I don't think you get it.

The contenders adding players with the MLE wasn't the problem, it was adding players for the MLE under their value, which will continue to happen.

The Lakers didn't get any great value adding Steve Blake for ~$3.5M or Matt Barnes ~$2.5M. That's their true market value and they are merely half mid-level talents as far as what they add to a team. The real stickler and issue for maintaining parity is when a guy like Ron Artest decides to forgo offers to re-sign/sign for $8-9M, and instead signs for $5.5M with the Lakers... When Haslem is offered $6-8M by other teams, and signs for $3.5M with the Heat... When Shaquille O'Neal a marketing magnet is offered $5.8M by the Hawks and signs for the league minimum with the Celtics...

This will continue to happen no matter what. Players will continue to play below their true value if the opportunity to play in a great city and compete for a championship presents itself... whether that's for the vet minimum, or whatever the MLE is reduced to. Nothing is going to stop that outside of eliminating "free agency" in it's whole, and making everybody restricted.

nickdymez
10-11-2011, 01:15 PM
I don't think you get it.

The contenders adding players with the MLE wasn't the problem, it was adding players for the MLE under their value, which will continue to happen.

The Lakers didn't get any great value adding Steve Blake for ~$3.5M or Matt Barnes ~$2.5M. That's their true market value and they are merely half mid-level talents as far as what they add to a team. The real stickler and issue for maintaining parity is when a guy like Ron Artest decides to forgo offers to re-sign/sign for $8-9M, and instead signs for $5.5M with the Lakers... When Haslem is offered $6-8M by other teams, and signs for $3.5M with the Heat... When Shaquille O'Neal a marketing magnet is offered $5.8M by the Hawks and signs for the league minimum with the Celtics...

This will continue to happen no matter what. Players will continue to play below their true value if the opportunity to play in a great city and compete for a championship presents itself... whether that's for the vet minimum, or whatever the MLE is reduced to. Nothing is going to stop that outside of eliminating "free agency" in it's whole, and making everybody restricted.

This

Shmontaine
10-11-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't think you get it.

The contenders adding players with the MLE wasn't the problem, it was adding players for the MLE under their value, which will continue to happen.

The Lakers didn't get any great value adding Steve Blake for ~$3.5M or Matt Barnes ~$2.5M. That's their true market value and they are merely half mid-level talents as far as what they add to a team. The real stickler and issue for maintaining parity is when a guy like Ron Artest decides to forgo offers to re-sign/sign for $8-9M, and instead signs for $5.5M with the Lakers... When Haslem is offered $6-8M by other teams, and signs for $3.5M with the Heat... When Shaquille O'Neal a marketing magnet is offered $5.8M by the Hawks and signs for the league minimum with the Celtics...

the idea is to make the gap larger... the few outliers you have presented are special cases... Haslem has never been outside miami, he wanted to stay with his roots, and the heat (given the state of the situation, i think he would've signed with dallas now, but who really knows -- he should've in hindsight)... Shaq stated that he had made so much money that, while in the twilight of his career, he wanted to remain in the spotlight and get exposure -- so he goes to boston... very few players have made as much as shaq... Artest is donating half his salary this year to charity, he is clearly not motivated by money... how many other nba players are though??...

the 3 outliers you've given were players that made their decisions not motivated by money...



This will continue to happen no matter what. Players will continue to play below their true value if the opportunity to play in a great city and compete for a championship presents itself... whether that's for the vet minimum, or whatever the MLE is reduced to. Nothing is going to stop that outside of eliminating "free agency" in it's whole, and making everybody restricted.

to a degree, of course it will continue... as long as there is free agency, there will always be free choice for the players... but the challenge the owners face it to mitigate it as much as possible... there are players in the nba that are motivated by money, and that difference in compensation will affect players on their decision of what team they go to... not all, but far more than the outliers you've presented...

RevisIsland
10-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Idea, why not stay in Dallas Caron? they just beat the Heat, you won't be hated, seems like a good situation to me...

beasted86
10-11-2011, 02:21 PM
the idea is to make the gap larger... the few outliers you have presented are special cases... Haslem has never been outside miami, he wanted to stay with his roots, and the heat (given the state of the situation, i think he would've signed with dallas now, but who really knows -- he should've in hindsight)... Shaq stated that he had made so much money that, while in the twilight of his career, he wanted to remain in the spotlight and get exposure -- so he goes to boston... very few players have made as much as shaq... Artest is donating half his salary this year to charity, he is clearly not motivated by money... how many other nba players are though??...

the 3 outliers you've given were players that made their decisions not motivated by money...




to a degree, of course it will continue... as long as there is free agency, there will always be free choice for the players... but the challenge the owners face it to mitigate it as much as possible... there are players in the nba that are motivated by money, and that difference in compensation will affect players on their decision of what team they go to... not all, but far more than the outliers you've presented...

I'm not really understanding your stance or what you think limiting the MLE will do to even parity. Give some real life situations, or even potential situations given the old MLE and proposed MLE changes will make in free agency.

The "MLE talent" players that are motivated by money were usually not taking the MLE anywhere. They were staying with their teams and getting overpaid (IE: Haywood).... or getting overpaid by teams with cap space (IE: Outlaw). The only thing limiting the MLE and shortening the years would do is lower the financial burden on a team that over evaluated a talent and are stuck with a bad deal for 5 years (IE: Childress)... but this more owners trying to handicap their own stupidity as teams always had the option to offer less than 5 years, less than the full MLE, and team options on final years. In most likelihood in these occasions, the player is only "a bad contract" because the team sucks, not the player failing to live up to "MLE worth" (IE: Kleiza, Harrington, etc).

justinnum1
10-11-2011, 02:21 PM
^ I don't see the Bulls beating you guys, If the Knicks make A move though, Your gonna have to worry. I just think D-rose is overrated because he takes too many unnecessary shots.

Neither do I.

beasted86
10-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Idea, why not stay in Dallas Caron? they just beat the Heat, you won't be hated, seems like a good situation to me...

Basically all the owners "proposals" involve the Mavericks not being able to re-sign Caron.

1) Luxury tax potentially 4x. Dallas will already be in the luxury tax without re-signing anyone (Chandler, Butler, Barrea, Stevenson, etc.)
2) Potential limit to re-sign 1 player per year with bird rights. Chandler and/or Barrea higher priority than Caron.

I have "proposals" in quotations because it looks more like these proposals are just negotiating tactics to have imaginary concessions, rather than what the owners really did want.

Dade County
10-11-2011, 02:37 PM
Idea, why not stay in Dallas Caron? they just beat the Heat, you won't be hated, seems like a good situation to me...

Because he is not delusional like most americans/fans. He knows what really went down in the finals.

And he probably likes living in miami... Him and D wade are very good friends, and he gets to hang out with Mr. Pat Riley :D

All joking aside, we need a defensive BIG man and a pg that can hit the open 3 all day.

marj987
10-11-2011, 03:11 PM
Yeah that was flat out ignorant.. Mike Miller is complete garbage. This is just Heat fans giving no credit to any other player outside of Miami.

No, I think mike miller is a versatile player who can shoot and rebound the ball, caron is like what Vince carter is now....but plays defense.

beasted86
10-11-2011, 03:15 PM
Yeah that was flat out ignorant.. Mike Miller is complete garbage. This is just Heat fans giving no credit to any other player outside of Miami.

Or maybe, just possibly.... he was alluding to the fact that both are injury prone players, and it wasn't about a talent comparison saying Miller = Butler.

:facepalm:

nickdymez
10-11-2011, 03:57 PM
Or maybe, just possibly.... he was alluding to the fact that both are injury prone players, and it wasn't about a talent comparison saying Miller = Butler.

:facepalm:

Id take that answer if you were a certified mind reader.

Marlin234
10-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Idea, why not stay in Dallas Caron? they just beat the Heat, you won't be hated, seems like a good situation to me...

Jealous are we? ;)

Chi StateOfMind
10-11-2011, 04:17 PM
Who wouldn't consider joining the Heat.

nickdymez
10-11-2011, 04:27 PM
Jealous are we? ;)

What are you sayin he's jelous of

blahblahyoutoo
10-11-2011, 04:27 PM
this move will be as successful as CLE signing jamison.
pass.

Jonathan2323
10-11-2011, 04:30 PM
Jamal Crawford Please!

gotoHcarolina52
10-11-2011, 04:35 PM
Who wouldn't consider joining the Heat.

The mere thought of an amnesty clause gives Pat Riley wet dreams.

LayZbone
10-11-2011, 04:36 PM
I loved Caron on the Heat in '03, but no thanks. We have more important needs.