PDA

View Full Version : Is Dwyane Wade an Elite Defender?



Longhornfan1234
10-09-2011, 03:56 AM
??

Raps08-09 Champ
10-09-2011, 04:03 AM
I actually thought he was a bit lazy this year.

Andrew32
10-09-2011, 04:05 AM
Yes, he is and has been one of the best overall defenders from his position for many years now.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-09-2011, 04:13 AM
he's kinda lazy from time to time

BH-Sports
10-09-2011, 04:38 AM
Hes very good but mostly because he is bigger than most of whom he's guarding. She did show some laziness from time to time though

asandhu23
10-09-2011, 04:54 AM
He knows he's got the refs in his pockets. he gets away with fouls. apparently that is good defense.

SportsFanatic10
10-09-2011, 05:00 AM
Hes very good but mostly because he is bigger than most of whom he's guarding. She did show some laziness from time to time though

hes not bigger than most shooting guards. at 6'4 hes "undersized" and a "combo guard". but hes probably as strong and can leap as high or better than any of them. maybe thats what you meant not sure. i think hes got a great mix of strength and quickness and that's what makes him so good around the perimeter.

anyways my answer to the question would be absolutely yes. BUT only when he wants to be. hes good all season long but at key times he becomes elite. he does tend to be lazy at times and gamble too much in the passing lanes but when the game is on the line and he diggs down, he mans up with the best of them. i'd be confident putting him on the other teams best perimeter player down the stretch of any playoff game. not to mention he's the best shotblocking guard, and they don't all come in help defense. he goes straight up and challenges opposing centers at the rim sometimes and owns them lol.

Chi StateOfMind
10-09-2011, 05:16 AM
Yes. If he wants to shut someone down he can.

SteBO
10-09-2011, 09:25 AM
Definetely yes, though as many have said he can become lazy at time when he starts gambling and not making a complete effort to stay in front of his man. But man can he be a lockdown defender when he wants to be. I've seen him lock Kobe down from time to time.

justinnum1
10-09-2011, 10:02 AM
Definetely yes, though as many have said he can become lazy at time when he starts gambling and not making a complete effort to stay in front of his man. But man can he be a lockdown defender when he wants to be. I've seen him lock Kobe down from time to time.

This, when he needs to, he can lock someone down. And he can play guys bigger than him(he can guard 1's, 2's, and 3's)

naps
10-09-2011, 10:03 AM
YES.

He is a lockdown defender and one of the best in the league. Like his entire career and overall game, his defense's also been underrated. How on earth Kobe gets 1st team all nba defense over Wade is beyond me. From 2008 Wade has been the best defensive SG in the league.

marlinsfan24
10-09-2011, 10:13 AM
Definetely yes, though as many have said he can become lazy at time when he starts gambling and not making a complete effort to stay in front of his man. But man can he be a lockdown defender when he wants to be. I've seen him lock Kobe down from time to time.


YES.

He is a lockdown defender and one of the best in the league. Like his entire career and overall game, his defense's also been underrated. How on earth Kobe gets 1st team all nba defense over Wade is beyond me. From 2008 Wade has been the best defensive SG in the league.

Both of these. If Wade put his mind to playing great defense all the time, he'd likely have a couple of trophy's in his house representing that.

Jay
10-09-2011, 10:18 AM
No. He's a very good defender. Certainly nowhere close to a liability on that end.

gwrighter
10-09-2011, 10:32 AM
not really. Derrick Rose ate his lunch in the series vs. the Heat. He's more of an opportunistic defender, getting blocks & steals from time to time. but he's not an elite 1 on 1 defender. he's passable, but not great.

Hawkeye15
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
as most have said here, yes, he can be a lockdown defender. But he gets lazy at times, and rides passing lanes. There are periods of games where he kind of just floats around, and there are periods of games, or series of games come playoff time, where he can shut down opposing 2 guards

KeepMonta#8
10-09-2011, 11:35 AM
he can be lazy but when he wants to he plays good D

AntiG
10-09-2011, 11:40 AM
he has the ability to be, and has been from time to time, but doesn't usually put the effort into it as much as he should.

NJ Raven
10-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Everyone pretty much summed it up. He can be when he wants to.

mamba24
10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
hes not bigger than most shooting guards. at 6'4 hes "undersized" and a "combo guard". but hes probably as strong and can leap as high or better than any of them. maybe thats what you meant not sure. i think hes got a great mix of strength and quickness and that's what makes him so good around the perimeter.

anyways my answer to the question would be absolutely yes. BUT only when he wants to be. hes good all season long but at key times he becomes elite. he does tend to be lazy at times and gamble too much in the passing lanes but when the game is on the line and he diggs down, he mans up with the best of them. i'd be confident putting him on the other teams best perimeter player down the stretch of any playoff game. not to mention he's the best shotblocking guard, and they don't all come in help defense. he goes straight up and challenges opposing centers at the rim sometimes and owns them lol.

you hit the nail on the head... he is elite defensively when he wants to be. the only guys that are really always elite defensively are defensive specialists. There are only a select few who are superstars who actually play good d no matter what

fishfan79
10-09-2011, 11:53 AM
not really. Derrick Rose ate his lunch in the series vs. the Heat. He's more of an opportunistic defender, getting blocks & steals from time to time. but he's not an elite 1 on 1 defender. he's passable, but not great.

you mean when rose had one of the worst 4th quarters in the history of basketball?

Cal827
10-09-2011, 12:07 PM
If he's active, he definitely is the best SG defender right now. I remember watching Bryant hit a buzzer beater bank 3 over him, but I also remember how tough wade was on Kobe on that play.

Sadds The Gr8
10-09-2011, 12:08 PM
no. he's lazy at times.

Chronz
10-09-2011, 12:18 PM
I think hes underrated, more people payed attention to Bron shutting Rose down for a few key stretches and completely ignored the great job he did on Rose.

ManningToTyree
10-09-2011, 12:32 PM
yes, when he wants to be

IndiansFan337
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
He can be when he wants to put in the effort to lock someone down, but he does take a lot of plays off and coasts sometimes.

Ezio
10-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Gets the same treatment that Rondo does. Gambles on the passing lanes. Lazy and doesn't like to go through screens (Look at the stats Allen has when Wade is on the floor)

theheatles
10-09-2011, 01:30 PM
when wade has to play d, he's 1 of the best if not , THE BEST, wing defender in the league, but he won't play defense unless he must...i was at the game when wade scored 55 vs the knicks for his career high and wade would o'le everyone like he was a matador that game

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 01:32 PM
You guys summed it up. He reminds me of Melo. Melo is one of the laziest defenders I've ever seen but then in the conference finals against the Lakers I remember watching him D up Kobe like "wow, where in the hell did this guy come from?"

If they committed to it they could be elite defenders but I don't think they're willing to sacrifice some of their offensive game to do so.....

Chronz
10-09-2011, 03:10 PM
He is nothing like Melo, Meo trying his hardest isnt as good as Wade on a lazy day.

justinnum1
10-09-2011, 03:23 PM
He shut down ray allen in the semis.

PinnacleFlash
10-09-2011, 03:26 PM
He shut down ray allen in the semis.

:facepalm:

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 03:53 PM
Of course he is. I don't know why this is even debatable. When it matters most he can play defense with the best of em. Yes, he gets lazy from time to time but name me one elite scorer that plays absolute lock down defense every possession. Any one who says "he gambles to much" Hasn't watched Wade play since 2006 lol. Also he has the most blocks per game for a SG EVER. He's elite, PERIOD

justinnum1
10-09-2011, 04:21 PM
:facepalm:

:facepalm: yourself

naps
10-09-2011, 04:27 PM
You guys summed it up. He reminds me of Melo. Melo is one of the laziest defenders I've ever seen but then in the conference finals against the Lakers I remember watching him D up Kobe like "wow, where in the hell did this guy come from?"

If they committed to it they could be elite defenders but I don't think they're willing to sacrifice some of their offensive game to do so.....

Melo is nowhere near the defender Wade is. Either you don't pay attention or you don't understand the defensive aspect of the game.

naps
10-09-2011, 04:29 PM
:facepalm:

Damn, is this guy's ban over? This forum was much better for a week:(

PinnacleFlash
10-09-2011, 04:31 PM
Melo is nowhere near the defender Wade is. Either you don't pay attention or you don't understand the defensive aspect of the game.

I'm sure you do. :rolleyes:

Cal827
10-09-2011, 04:32 PM
lol what's with all the fighting guys? It's just a site... stop attacking each other over nonsense :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

Rego247
10-09-2011, 04:39 PM
lol what's with all the fighting guys? It's just a site... stop attacking each other over nonsense :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

It's the NBA forum Cal, were you expecting anything else?

Cal827
10-09-2011, 04:45 PM
It's the NBA forum Cal, were you expecting anything else?

Good point. My bad, I guess I was being optimistic cause I didn't think this thread would be doomed from the start (like basically any article mentioning Lebron James, Derrick Rose and Kobe Bryant) :facepalm:

justinnum1
10-09-2011, 05:02 PM
http://twitpic.com/6xv1zu

Defense

naps
10-09-2011, 05:18 PM
http://twitpic.com/6xv1zu

Defense

Supremely underrated.

23dragonzord
10-09-2011, 05:31 PM
Supremely overrated.

I completely agree.

KnicksR4Real
10-09-2011, 05:43 PM
no. nuff said

beliges
10-09-2011, 05:51 PM
Elite? I dont know about elite. Hes certainly one of the better perimeter defenders in the game today but he is nowhere near the all time list of elite defenders nor does he have the accolades. But certainly one of the better 2 way players in the game today.

shep33
10-09-2011, 06:06 PM
He, Kobe and Lebron are what I call "selective defensive stoppers", I have seen these guys play absolute lockdown D, equivalent to some of the NBA's best in history. However, they get lazy sometimes, and I know a lot of it has to do with them doing so much on offense too.

But yeah, if they wanted to be those 3 guys could shut anyone down if they didn't have their responsibilities on offense.

beliges
10-09-2011, 06:13 PM
He, Kobe and Lebron are what I call "selective defensive stoppers", I have seen these guys play absolute lockdown D, equivalent to some of the NBA's best in history. However, they get lazy sometimes, and I know a lot of it has to do with them doing so much on offense too.

But yeah, if they wanted to be those 3 guys could shut anyone down if they didn't have their responsibilities on offense.

True but what separates Kobe from the other two is that in his prime Kobe was called upon to shut down the opposition's best perimeter player while at the same time closing games and winning titles. I mean what is it like 9 all first defensive teams for Kobe? Tied with MJ for most ever for a perimeter player.

naps
10-09-2011, 06:21 PM
I completely agree.

:rolleyes:

gwrighter
10-09-2011, 06:23 PM
you mean when rose had one of the worst 4th quarters in the history of basketball?

Lebron was guarding Rose when that happened. The whole reason why they switched was because Rose was owning wade. It was too taxing on Wade to try & guard Rose & produce offensively at the same time. In that sense, Wade doesn't have the ability to dominate on defence & offense at the same time. He needs to pick his spots & he does that well.

Hawkeye15
10-09-2011, 06:24 PM
True but what separates Kobe from the other two is that in his prime Kobe was called upon to shut down the opposition's best perimeter player while at the same time closing games and winning titles. I mean what is it like 9 all first defensive teams for Kobe? Tied with MJ for most ever for a perimeter player.

how does that separate them, when LeBron and Wade are asked to do the exact same thing?

All defensive teams? Those teams have become a joke. The mere fact that Kobe was 1st team this year proves my point to a tee

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 06:24 PM
Melo is nowhere near the defender Wade is. Either you don't pay attention or you don't understand the defensive aspect of the game.


Please enlighten me oh knowledgeable one....

Chronz
10-09-2011, 06:40 PM
He, Kobe and Lebron are what I call "selective defensive stoppers", I have seen these guys play absolute lockdown D, equivalent to some of the NBA's best in history. However, they get lazy sometimes, and I know a lot of it has to do with them doing so much on offense too.

But yeah, if they wanted to be those 3 guys could shut anyone down if they didn't have their responsibilities on offense.
Your talking 1 on 1 right because on a team level those 3 couldnt be any different.

In any event Bron doesnt belong on that list, he plays elite defense on a team level every game. When the Big-3 came together all anyone could talk about was how mediocre they would be defensively due to their lack of size in the middle. They underrated his defensive impact, there was an old post in the Boston forum where I tried to inform them.

Chronz
10-09-2011, 06:42 PM
True but what separates Kobe from the other two is that in his prime Kobe was called upon to shut down the opposition's best perimeter player while at the same time closing games and winning titles. I mean what is it like 9 all first defensive teams for Kobe? Tied with MJ for most ever for a perimeter player.
The fact that we can both recognize that Kobe is no longer in his defensive prime and can no longer do that yet is still making First Team Defense on the regular discredits their validity.

Chronz
10-09-2011, 06:44 PM
I'm sure you do. :rolleyes:

So you, a Wade rider, is now riding on another poster for defending Wade? What gives?

PinnacleFlash
10-09-2011, 06:46 PM
So you, a Wade rider, is now riding on another poster for defending Wade? What gives?
Better than a guy that thinks LeBron wore out despite the fact that there have been plenty of players that have played as many if not more minutes than him. Or a guy who bandwagon to the Houston Rockets because of Tmac.

naps
10-09-2011, 07:02 PM
Lebron was guarding Rose when that happened. The whole reason why they switched was because Rose was owning wade. It was too taxing on Wade to try & guard Rose & produce offensively at the same time. In that sense, Wade doesn't have the ability to dominate on defence & offense at the same time. He needs to pick his spots & he does that well.

On what planet? Wade was fantastic on Rose. LeBron was equally fantastic but LeBron gets more credit because he was guarding Rose in the closing minutes since he had the height advantage on Rose more than Wade. Wade and LeBron split time on Rose equally. I don't know what are you talking about here.

naps
10-09-2011, 07:04 PM
Please enlighten me oh knowledgeable one....

You enlighten me how Melo and Wade are close defensively. This is probably the most ridiculous claim ever. If Melo had Wade's defense Melo would have been the best player in the league.

naps
10-09-2011, 07:06 PM
So you, a Wade rider, is now riding on another poster for defending Wade? What gives?

Haha..I know right!

justinnum1
10-09-2011, 07:16 PM
Lebron was guarding Rose when that happened. The whole reason why they switched was because Rose was owning wade. It was too taxing on Wade to try & guard Rose & produce offensively at the same time. In that sense, Wade doesn't have the ability to dominate on defence & offense at the same time. He needs to pick his spots & he does that well.

:rolleyes:

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 07:35 PM
wade is elite. He takes some plays off so he can have some energy for his offensive game. Show me one elite offensive player who doesn't take a few plays off. Wade has the most blocks per game for a shooting guard ever! That alone should make him elite. He shut down a number of elite players last season.

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Please enlighten me oh knowledgeable one....
Wade- 1.1 blocks per game
Carmelo- 0.6 blocks per game ( It should be noted that Carmelo is a good 5" taller)

Wade- 1.5 steals per game
Carmelo- 0.9 steals per game

Wade- 4.7 defensive win shares
Carmelo- 2.5 defensive win shares

What else do you wanna see? How about you go watch a game of Carmelo and then Wade. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball will tell you Wade is a better defender.

beliges
10-09-2011, 07:39 PM
The fact that we can both recognize that Kobe is no longer in his defensive prime and can no longer do that yet is still making First Team Defense on the regular discredits their validity.

Clearly Kobe has fallen off from what he once was, both offensively and defensively. However, last season he was justified for receiving the First Team All NBA defensive team award over Wade. If he continues this downward trend, Kobe will no longer receive 1st Team Defense awards. But I dont think Wade is a good enough defender to generate a 1st team defensive award either. And I know you want to discredit the award but remember this is something voted on by coaches and GMs. Theres bias in any vote but this is something voted on by the people with the most knowledge. I respect their opinions moreso than any fan.

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 07:41 PM
no. nuff said

I find it funny how a Knicks fan with a picture of Gallinari is critiquing Wade's defense

kozelkid
10-09-2011, 08:19 PM
YES.

He is a lockdown defender and one of the best in the league. Like his entire career and overall game, his defense's also been underrated. How on earth Kobe gets 1st team all nba defense over Wade is beyond me. From 2008 Wade has been the best defensive SG in the league.

You must be thinking of Tony Allen.

Hard to say if he's elite, I think you gotta define elite first. When I look at the best perimeter defenders, the three that stand out the most for me is Iggy, Lebron (not so much as a one on one defender because I think he's slightly overrated in that department though made major strides this season, but just the overall package) and Tony Allen. I'm not sure if Wade is in that group. Same case with Deng.

daleja424
10-09-2011, 08:29 PM
he can be...

but you really cant expect a player that carries the kind of offensive burden like he does to be able to go 100% on defense the whole game.

Andrew32
10-09-2011, 08:44 PM
Cmon, Wade is one of the greatest defenders ever from his position.

He reminds me alot of a young Jordan who combined Elite Lockdown M2M Defense with extraordinary off ball and help defense.

I think he is a better defender then Prime Kobe who although may have been a slightly better M2M Defender lacked Wades all around defensive game. + theres this below.


Number of seasons with DRTG lower then 105
Kobe = 5
Wade = 6

Number of seasons with 4+ Defensive WShares
Kobe = 5
Wade = 5

Total seasons played

Kobe = 15
Wade = 8

Career BPG//SPG
Kobe = .5 // 1.5
Wade = 1 // 1.7


Wade is just the "new" player and people who are in love with the older generation of players dont want to acknowledge his greatness.

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Wade- 1.1 blocks per game
Carmelo- 0.6 blocks per game ( It should be noted that Carmelo is a good 5" taller)

Wade- 1.5 steals per game
Carmelo- 0.9 steals per game

Wade- 4.7 defensive win shares
Carmelo- 2.5 defensive win shares

What else do you wanna see? How about you go watch a game of Carmelo and then Wade. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball will tell you Wade is a better defender.


Thanks for the stats but did you even read my original post? I never said Melo was a better defender I stated Wade's defense reminded me of Melo in that against the Lakers in the conference finals Melo played some of the best D against Kobe I've ever seen but doesn't do so on a nightly basis. Melo also was great on D during Team USA play btw. In other words Wade, like Melo, can be a beast on defense when he wants to.

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 09:34 PM
list all of the shooting guards in the NBA. There are 1-2 SG better than Wade defensively MAYBE. and the only reason he isn't number one is because he has to save some for offense. Tony Allen can go hard every possession on defense because his team doesn't rely on him on offense

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 09:35 PM
Thanks for the stats but did you even read my original post? I never said Melo was a better defender I stated Wade's defense reminded me of Melo in that against the Lakers in the conference finals Melo played some of the best D against Kobe I've ever seen but doesn't do so on a nightly basis. Melo also was great on D during Team USA play btw. In other words Wade, like Melo, can be a beast on defense when he wants to.

So I guess Melo hardly ever wants to play defense cause he's hardly ever a "beast"

beliges
10-09-2011, 09:36 PM
Cmon, Wade is one of the greatest defenders ever from his position.

He reminds me alot of a young Jordan who combined Elite Lockdown M2M Defense with extraordinary off ball and help defense.

I think he is a better defender then Prime Kobe who although may have been a slightly better M2M Defender lacked Wades all around defensive game. + theres this below.



Wade is just the "new" player and people who are in love with the older generation of players dont want to acknowledge his greatness.

Then how come according to NBA GMs and coaches Kobe has been the best defensive SG for the past years or so and NOT D Wade? I dont know, call me crazy but i think they know more than you do and they know more than some fabricated formula can prove.

Andrew32
10-09-2011, 09:39 PM
DRTG, DWShares, Blocks/Steals are fabricated forumlas?

Wade is just a better defender then Kobe and when I watch the two of them the past few years its obvious who is better.

I dont care what some media fed biased GM's say or how many shares of Kobe brand stock they own but I can form my own opinions. GM's, Players, Coaches, Announcers are constantly flip flopping and say things to completely contradict themselves and Im supposed to take their word as the golden truth?

beliges
10-09-2011, 09:43 PM
DRTG, DWShares, Blocks/Steals are fabricated forumlas?

Wade is just a better defender then Kobe and when I watch the two of them the past few years its obvious who is better.

I dont care what some media fed biased GM's say or how many shares of Kobe brand stock they own but I can form my own opinions. GM's, Players, Coaches, Announcers are constantly flip flopping and say things to completely contradict themselves and Im supposed to take their word as the golden truth?

Thats cool, you are entitled your opinion. Im just pointing out that the majority of NBA GMs and coaches disagree with you and have stated that Kobe is the best SG defender for the past 9 years. You might not care about what teh GMs and coaches think but that does not change the fact that these guys know and understand these players better than you or anyone you know. And lets get one thing straight, there are a lot of media fed biased people out there such as fans like you and I and the media members who vote for the MVP award but one group of people who are not media fed biased are the GMs and coaches since they are the ones actually involved in the game and they have first hand knowledge and insight into players.

Andrew32
10-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Right, I dont care at all what they think and I largely think things like All-D awards are worthless and useless when trying to accurately judge a players defensive ability.

When Kobe won 1st team All-D in 09 over Wade (who was 2nd I think in DPOY voting that year) that was the year I said to myself I will never pay attention to All-D awards again.

beasted86
10-09-2011, 09:46 PM
Wade's in the top 3 at his position in terms of defense, so I consider that elite. Also in top 15 perimeter players as a whole.

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 09:46 PM
So I guess Melo hardly ever wants to play defense cause he's hardly ever a "beast"


These are George Karls comments after Melo was traded:

ďDefense is commitment. Iíve got young guys and if they donít give me the commitment, Iíve got other guys who will give me the commitment. The system sometimes ties you up from getting the commitment. You have to handle what Melo gives you. Iím not knocking Melo, he is a great offensive player. Melo is the best offensive player Iíve ever coached, but his defensive focus, his demand of himself is what frustrated us more than anything.Ē


What more is there to say? Defensive focus, not committing to defense, i.e. can defend but won't and would rather score.....

beliges
10-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Right, I dont care at all what they think and I largely think things like All-D awards are worthless and useless when trying to accurately judge a players defensive ability.

When Kobe won 1st team All-D in 09 over Wade (who was 2nd I think in DPOY voting that year) that was the year I said to myself I will never pay attention to All-D awards again.

Nobody is asking you to take these awards seriously. But just recognize that these awards are directly based on the opinions of GMs and coaches and their opinions will always hold much more weight and credibility than yours will.

Soxsnation4life
10-09-2011, 09:53 PM
These are George Karls comments after Melo was traded:

ďDefense is commitment. Iíve got young guys and if they donít give me the commitment, Iíve got other guys who will give me the commitment. The system sometimes ties you up from getting the commitment. You have to handle what Melo gives you. Iím not knocking Melo, he is a great offensive player. Melo is the best offensive player Iíve ever coached, but his defensive focus, his demand of himself is what frustrated us more than anything.Ē


What more is there to say? Defensive focus, not committing to defense, i.e. can defend but won't and would rather score.....

and that's what separates Wade from Carmelo. He defends AND scores.

kgjfan243
10-09-2011, 09:55 PM
No, he's not always completely involved with his defensive assignment. When he's locked in, he's one hell of a defender.

i.got.the.nutz
10-09-2011, 09:56 PM
Cmon, Wade is one of the greatest defenders ever from his position.

He reminds me alot of a young Jordan who combined Elite Lockdown M2M Defense with extraordinary off ball and help defense.

I think he is a better defender then Prime Kobe who although may have been a slightly better M2M Defender lacked Wades all around defensive game. + theres this below.



Wade is just the "new" player and people who are in love with the older generation of players dont want to acknowledge his greatness.


We all know you're not a Kobe fan. Do you really have to bring him up in every single thread? This thread wasn't titled, "Is Wade a better defender than Kobe?".

Andrew32
10-09-2011, 09:58 PM
I was just using it as an example since Kobe was a spectacular M2M Defender in his younger/Shaq years.

It was actually a compliment to Kobe and I am a fan of his.

i.got.the.nutz
10-09-2011, 10:00 PM
I was just using it as an example since Kobe was a spectacular M2M Defender in his younger/Shaq years.

It was actually a compliment to Kobe and I am a fan of his.

:laugh::laugh:

Hustlenomics
10-09-2011, 10:02 PM
once one person makes something up everyone else runs with it i see

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 10:08 PM
once one person makes something up everyone else runs with it i see


Come on you know those are the rules up in here man! Forget what the coaches say, forget what the GMs say, forget what the players that actually play the game say... the make believe in here is where the truth is found!

beliges
10-09-2011, 10:16 PM
Come on you know those are the rules up in here man! Forget what the coaches say, forget what the GMs say, forget what the players that actually play the game say... the make believe in here is where the truth is found!

The truth is found in made up, make believe inaccurate formulas created by a stat geek from ESPN. Now there is the truth.

Rndy
10-09-2011, 10:18 PM
If he wants to be yes he's an athletic freak as a 2 guard.

Ovratd1up
10-09-2011, 10:58 PM
The truth is found in made up, make believe inaccurate formulas created by a stat geek from ESPN. Now there is the truth.

Just wondering, is this the level to which you articulate thoughts in real life? Do you really believe the words you typed?

[thank you for your asshattery setting a precedent for my own]

beliges
10-09-2011, 10:59 PM
Just wondering, is this the level to which you articulate thoughts in real life? Do you really believe the words you typed?

[thank you for your asshattery setting a precedent for my own]

A little thing called sarcasm my friend.

gwrighter
10-09-2011, 11:32 PM
On what planet? Wade was fantastic on Rose. LeBron was equally fantastic but LeBron gets more credit because he was guarding Rose in the closing minutes since he had the height advantage on Rose more than Wade. Wade and LeBron split time on Rose equally. I don't know what are you talking about here.

Wade wasn't fantastic on Rose, he was adequate. Rose was still able to penetrate the lane almost at will off of the P&R against Wade. Yes Lebron had his height advantage & no they didn't split time equally. LBJ guarded Rose only in the 4th Q's & this was only in the last few games as well. Rose was basically the only reason why the bulls were scoring points, & all of the games were close. So Wade failed on containing Rose, leaving it up to Lebron to close out the games defensively on Chicago's primary scorer.

Hustlenomics
10-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Come on you know those are the rules up in here man! Forget what the coaches say, forget what the GMs say, forget what the players that actually play the game say... the make believe in here is where the truth is found!

I haven't seen anything in here that's been said by coaches,GM'S, or players


The truth is found in made up, make believe inaccurate formulas created by a stat geek from ESPN. Now there is the truth.

what formulas

beliges
10-09-2011, 11:38 PM
I haven't seen anything in here that's been said by coaches,GM'S, or players



what formulas

All NBA defensive teams are voted on by coaches and GMs, and the formula im talking about is PER.

Hustlenomics
10-10-2011, 12:25 AM
All NBA defensive teams are voted on by coaches and GMs, and the formula im talking about is PER.

D wade wasn't on the first or second all defensive team last season

knicks_champ
10-10-2011, 01:37 AM
Definetely yes, though as many have said he can become lazy at time when he starts gambling and not making a complete effort to stay in front of his man. But man can he be a lockdown defender when he wants to be. I've seen him lock Kobe down from time to time.

Sounds like Melo....

MTar786
10-10-2011, 01:39 AM
good on ball defender, great at reading the passing lanes and even better help defender.

naps
10-10-2011, 03:07 AM
You must be thinking of Tony Allen.

Hard to say if he's elite, I think you gotta define elite first. When I look at the best perimeter defenders, the three that stand out the most for me is Iggy, Lebron (not so much as a one on one defender because I think he's slightly overrated in that department though made major strides this season, but just the overall package) and Tony Allen. I'm not sure if Wade is in that group. Same case with Deng.

Tony Allen, Sefalosha are defensive specialist for 15 mins a game. They are not 35 mins players. Wade carries a teams offense along with defense. Wade, LeBron, Kobe play defense when it's NEEDED, not for entire 35+ mins they play because they carry offensive loads unlike a Tony Allen.

naps
10-10-2011, 03:15 AM
We all know you're not a Kobe fan. Do you really have to bring him up in every single thread? This thread wasn't titled, "Is Wade a better defender than Kobe?".

He didn't bring up Kobe, one of your Kobe fanboy did.

naps
10-10-2011, 03:24 AM
Wade wasn't fantastic on Rose, he was adequate. Rose was still able to penetrate the lane almost at will off of the P&R against Wade. Yes Lebron had his height advantage & no they didn't split time equally. LBJ guarded Rose only in the 4th Q's & this was only in the last few games as well. Rose was basically the only reason why the bulls were scoring points, & all of the games were close. So Wade failed on containing Rose, leaving it up to Lebron to close out the games defensively on Chicago's primary scorer.

Dwyane Wade was more than fantastic on Rose. Wade and LeBron split time on Rose. Rose became a 23 ppg scorer with only 35% shooting from previous series of 30 ppg and 40% shooting. The only deference is LeBron was assigned on Rose for last stretches of the game due to his size advantage and therefore LeBron is credited more to stop Rose. Wade was struggling offensively and therefore he commit ed himself on Rose for most part of the game. You clearly didn't watch the game. I am Heat fan and I watch every single minute of a Heat playoff game closely like there's no tomorrow. I don't just read on forums and made up my mind with the hype posters create here.

naps
10-10-2011, 03:29 AM
For those who brought up Melo. Have fun.


Wade- 1.1 blocks per game
Carmelo- 0.6 blocks per game ( It should be noted that Carmelo is a good 5" taller)

Wade- 1.5 steals per game
Carmelo- 0.9 steals per game

Wade- 4.7 defensive win shares
Carmelo- 2.5 defensive win shares

What else do you wanna see? How about you go watch a game of Carmelo and then Wade. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball will tell you Wade is a better defender.

And for those who brought up Kobe. Have fun.


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19437861&postcount=65

salimstoudamire
10-10-2011, 04:24 AM
I would call him an elite help defender.

bolts4ever
10-10-2011, 04:55 AM
Honestly I would call Wade a really good defender I dont put too much stock in Steals and Blocks because that doenst mean you are a lock down defender but a good help defender.

Only thing that holds Wade back from being great is his height, he struggles against bigger guard because hes only about 6'4.

gwrighter
10-10-2011, 11:27 AM
Dwyane Wade was more than fantastic on Rose. Wade and LeBron split time on Rose. Rose became a 23 ppg scorer with only 35% shooting from previous series of 30 ppg and 40% shooting. The only deference is LeBron was assigned on Rose for last stretches of the game due to his size advantage and therefore LeBron is credited more to stop Rose. Wade was struggling offensively and therefore he commit ed himself on Rose for most part of the game. You clearly didn't watch the game. I am Heat fan and I watch every single minute of a Heat playoff game closely like there's no tomorrow. I don't just read on forums and made up my mind with the hype posters create here.

I did watch every game n I'm neither a Bulls nor Heat fan and so don't suffer from any biases.

The pace was slower in the series vs. the Heat in comparison to ATL. the team defence from both sides was superb. the only player that could stop Rose 1 on 1 was Lebron. in the final two games the Bulls were winning going into the 4th Q. LBJ was tasked with slowing down Rose so the heat could close out those games.

beasted86
10-10-2011, 11:33 AM
All NBA defensive teams are voted on by coaches and GMs, and the formula im talking about is PER.

Just Head coaches, not GMs, assistants or anyone else votes for defensive teams... and yes, their logic can be flawed.

jim51990
10-10-2011, 11:46 AM
this is a joke right
love d wade but his defense is pitiful

beliges
10-10-2011, 01:30 PM
For those who brought up Melo. Have fun.



And for those who brought up Kobe. Have fun.

I dont even know why you post stats like those but theres no point in debating whose better overall defensively between Kobe and Wade throughout their careers. Kobe is one of the better perimeter defenders to ever play the game. Wade is one of the better perimeter defenders for the past few years. Theres a huuuuuge gap between the two.

kozelkid
10-10-2011, 03:00 PM
Tony Allen, Sefalosha are defensive specialist for 15 mins a game. They are not 35 mins players. Wade carries a teams offense along with defense. Wade, LeBron, Kobe play defense when it's NEEDED, not for entire 35+ mins they play because they carry offensive loads unlike a Tony Allen.

That's nice and all that Wade is a far more complete player and is much better than either overall, but both are still better defenders and they still play majority minutes at their position (well Allen at least for sure).
It's nice to say "if" Wade could focus more on defense, but he can't and so the best defender at the sg position IS Tony Allen. There's all there's to it. Some players are able to be the best at both sides, namely MJ, Pippen, Hakeem, Duncan, Lebron (well Iggy is technically better but the discrepancy between the two is far smaller than Wade and Allen), Howard, etc.

Evolution23
10-10-2011, 04:08 PM
he's kinda lazy from time to time

I think ugot him mixed with kobe buddy

Chronz
10-10-2011, 07:34 PM
Clearly Kobe has fallen off from what he once was, both offensively and defensively. However, last season he was justified for receiving the First Team All NBA defensive team award over Wade. If he continues this downward trend, Kobe will no longer receive 1st Team Defense awards. But I dont think Wade is a good enough defender to generate a 1st team defensive award either. And I know you want to discredit the award but remember this is something voted on by coaches and GMs. Theres bias in any vote but this is something voted on by the people with the most knowledge. I respect their opinions moreso than any fan.
I disagree with everything, he wasnt worthy last year, nor was he worthy in a few other years. The defensive teams arent credible anymore when you got Kobe making it ahead of clearly superior defenders.

Chronz
10-10-2011, 07:37 PM
Then how come according to NBA GMs and coaches Kobe has been the best defensive SG for the past years or so and NOT D Wade? I dont know, call me crazy but i think they know more than you do and they know more than some fabricated formula can prove.
According to Shane Battier, the coaches never take the task seriously, and doesnt think they do as good a job as the media. To be fair the coaches only see certain players twice a year, possibly less. GM's are paying guys to help them assess defensive value with metrics similar to the ones your degrading.

Chronz
10-10-2011, 07:38 PM
Nobody is asking you to take these awards seriously. But just recognize that these awards are directly based on the opinions of GMs and coaches and their opinions will always hold much more weight and credibility than yours will.
Why? Do you have any idea of idiotic some coaches are?

naps
10-10-2011, 07:51 PM
I dont even know why you post stats like those but theres no point in debating whose better overall defensively between Kobe and Wade throughout their careers. Kobe is one of the better perimeter defenders to ever play the game. Wade is one of the better perimeter defenders for the past few years. Theres a huuuuuge gap between the two.

No, you are just going with opinions while I am going with the stats. Huuuuuge gap between the ways we are judging them.

naps
10-10-2011, 07:55 PM
I did watch every game n I'm neither a Bulls nor Heat fan and so don't suffer from any biases.

The pace was slower in the series vs. the Heat in comparison to ATL. the team defence from both sides was superb. the only player that could stop Rose 1 on 1 was Lebron. in the final two games the Bulls were winning going into the 4th Q. LBJ was tasked with slowing down Rose so the heat could close out those games.

Nothing proves Wade isn't an elite defender. He did a fantastic job on Rose. LeBron was asked to do it on Rose in the late stretches to make sure Heat has the size advantage.

naps
10-10-2011, 07:58 PM
That's nice and all that Wade is a far more complete player and is much better than either overall, but both are still better defenders and they still play majority minutes at their position (well Allen at least for sure).
It's nice to say "if" Wade could focus more on defense, but he can't and so the best defender at the sg position IS Tony Allen. There's all there's to it. Some players are able to be the best at both sides, namely MJ, Pippen, Hakeem, Duncan, Lebron (well Iggy is technically better but the discrepancy between the two is far smaller than Wade and Allen), Howard, etc.

My point was the likes of Tony Allen and Sefalosha are defensive specialists for 15 to 20 mins a game. Wade is not a defensive specialist but he does nothing less than any perimeter guys in the league when he's asked to do so.

krest213
10-10-2011, 08:18 PM
not really.
now that boy Bruce " Almighty " Bowen is something else
beyond elite

Tony_Starks
10-10-2011, 10:01 PM
According to Shane Battier, the coaches never take the task seriously, and doesnt think they do as good a job as the media. To be fair the coaches only see certain players twice a year, possibly less. GM's are paying guys to help them assess defensive value with metrics similar to the ones your degrading.


But its not like Shane Battier is the most unbiased guy in the world in that regard. Im sure he's quite salty he hasn't received more defensive recognition from the coaches.....

Chronz
10-10-2011, 11:10 PM
But its not like Shane Battier is the most unbiased guy in the world in that regard. Im sure he's quite salty he hasn't received more defensive recognition from the coaches.....

Yea and he has a point, the coaches have shown leniency in defining positions before, the fact that one of the most dominant defensive wings of our time only has a few All-D selections to show for it is a joke. That they came after his prime makes it sadder.

Put this into perspective, Shane Battier spent an entire decade playing straight up defense, taking charges and the only reason he made the team was because of the national spotlight from that Kobe game and the no stats article that came out.

Meanwhile you have Larry Hughes gamble incessantly that 1 year and ends up making the team because of it. How pathetic is that.

Wade once made All-D even tho he wasnt even his own teams stopper (Eddie Jones was).

Andrew32
10-10-2011, 11:22 PM
All - D teams are essentially worthless awards.

Kobe was a good (maybe great) M2M Defender from his Rookie Year - 03.

From 04-06 he was a decent M2M Defender but nothing special.

From 07-09 he was average and sometimes mediocre.

From 10-11 he was mediocre to just plain terrible.

I could see Kobe getting on the All-D teams in 00,01,02,03 so thats 4 times, I cant imagine a single other year he would honestly deserve to be even on the 2nd or 3rd team except maybe his developmental years.

beasted86
10-10-2011, 11:22 PM
Wade once made All-D even tho he wasnt even his own teams stopper (Eddie Jones was).

As a long standing Heat fan, I'm not even going to bother asking what backwards logic you used to come to the assumption that Jones was the team's go to defender at 33 years old.

gwrighter
10-11-2011, 01:28 AM
Nothing proves Wade isn't an elite defender. He did a fantastic job on Rose. LeBron was asked to do it on Rose in the late stretches to make sure Heat has the size advantage.

Restating your thesis 3 times doesn't get you any closer to proving it. Wade's lack of height & length are what prevent him from being an elite defender.

Chronz
10-11-2011, 03:08 AM
As a long standing Heat fan, I'm not even going to bother asking what backwards logic you used to come to the assumption that Jones was the team's go to defender at 33 years old.
As a long standing NBA fan, I could care less. Eddie Jones was still playing superb D for another year in Memphis when he and Battier paired up to lead a strong defensive lineup.

Basically your saying the Spurs should return those All-Defensive Selections because Bruce Bowen shouldnt have been relied upon defensively because he was 33 years old. Why? Who cares about how old he was, focus on his game.

Jones was the teams designated stopper, he checked the primary scorers be it SG or SF. I dont care if your a Heat fan, I havent missed a Heat game since Shaq got there and Ive been following them religiously since Zo. You dont have to be a fan of a team to know them, at least not in the definition of fan your thinking of. By my definition Im a long standing Heat fan too, and I know full well how much more important Eddie Jones was to their D. The #'s back it, the scouting reports Ive read from that time back it.

Andrew32
10-11-2011, 03:31 AM
Restating your thesis 3 times doesn't get you any closer to proving it. Wade's lack of height & length are what prevent him from being an elite defender.

Umm... are you kidding me?

DWade has some of the longest arms in the entire league. His height is really not a detriment to him at all defensively because his arms are basically the length of a 7 footers and probably just as long if not longer then most 6,6-6,7 guard/wings like Kobe/Lebron

Why do you think he regularly is one of the best in SPG and is reminds me so much of young Jordan when it comes to blocking shots.

quade36
10-11-2011, 09:09 AM
No. To be an elite defender you need to be guarding the best player on the opposing team. Even before James came, Wade wasn't doing that.

beasted86
10-11-2011, 11:55 AM
As a long standing NBA fan, I could care less. Eddie Jones was still playing superb D for another year in Memphis when he and Battier paired up to lead a strong defensive lineup.

Basically your saying the Spurs should return those All-Defensive Selections because Bruce Bowen shouldnt have been relied upon defensively because he was 33 years old. Why? Who cares about how old he was, focus on his game.

Jones was the teams designated stopper, he checked the primary scorers be it SG or SF. I dont care if your a Heat fan, I havent missed a Heat game since Shaq got there and Ive been following them religiously since Zo. You dont have to be a fan of a team to know them, at least not in the definition of fan your thinking of. By my definition Im a long standing Heat fan too, and I know full well how much more important Eddie Jones was to their D. The #'s back it, the scouting reports Ive read from that time back it.

Feel free to post those scouting reports, and any proof of your random opinion.

The team's go to defensive stopper wasn't Eddie Jones, we actually were lacking in that spot just like this past season when Wade & LeBron essentially took turns, the same thing happened in 04-05. Jones wasn't big enough to really play the SF, as he was the same weight as Wade, yet 2 inches taller, and was constantly outmuscled in a number of matchups and out played. We tried to add end of bench vets like Shannon Anderson who was known for his defense to fill the role and it didn't work, that's the entire reason we went out and made the trade with Eddie Jones for Posey, a true defensive stopper, and a true SF instead of makeshift SG playing the position.

My proof is in the results of what actually happened and who we obviously traded that very same "defensive stopper" Eddie Jones for. Where is yours?

naps
10-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Restating your thesis 3 times doesn't get you any closer to proving it. Wade's lack of height & length are what prevent him from being an elite defender.

LMAO! Good argument:rolleyes:

Wade is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, where I can count 2 or 3 other guys that could be compared to his defensive elite-ness. You haven't said anything worthy yet because Wade restricted Rose efficiently in the ECF for half of the game. Go re-watch since you don't seem like you were watching the playoffs carefully (may be your team was out early?) Stop hating please (I know hating is the popular trend but still) because that won't earn you anything.

naps
10-11-2011, 12:29 PM
No. To be an elite defender you need to be guarding the best player on the opposing team. Even before James came, Wade wasn't doing that.

Haha..who was doing that? When was the first time you watched a Heat game? Let me guess...October 2010...yeah, that's right. Wade has been guarding the opposing team's best perimeter scorer pretty much for his entire career and specially in the crunch time that's been his job. So you haven't seen the pre-LeBron Heat. Therefore, shut up.

Rockwilderz
10-11-2011, 12:32 PM
depends on who hes guarding.

juno10
10-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Restating your thesis 3 times doesn't get you any closer to proving it. Wade's lack of height & length are what prevent him from being an elite defender.

wade doesn't lack length he has a freakish wingspan which make up for his lack of size where he's only a little undersized.

beliges
10-11-2011, 01:55 PM
Wade's a very very good defender. Will he go down as one of the best 2 way players of all time? Certainly not. In that sense he's not elite. But, as far as the league goes right now, hes among the better perimeter defenders. Nothing substantially special, but a very good defender nontheless.

Andrew32
10-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Quit trolling all the topics that may relate to your true love Kobe.

Wade is arguably already a better 2 way player then Bryant ever was in my book.

The difference comes down to Wade being an all around better defensive player and combining elite help defense with lock down M2M Defense.

Kobe had the Elite M2M defense when he was young but that was only really from 98 or 99 - 03. He was never close to Wade in every other facet of defense.

offensively they are both great but Wade is more efficient and performs better against the better defensive teams (Boston/Detroit) and in the Finals.

Nostalgia and Rings may forever cloud your judgment but if you judge them purely on individual production/impact/performances and ability its clear who the better player is.

beliges
10-11-2011, 06:43 PM
Quit trolling all the topics that may relate to your true love Kobe.

Wade is arguably already a better 2 way player then Bryant ever was in my book.

The difference comes down to Wade being an all around better defensive player and combining elite help defense with lock down M2M Defense.

Kobe had the Elite M2M defense when he was young but that was only really from 98 or 99 - 03. He was never close to Wade in every other facet of defense.

offensively they are both great but Wade is more efficient and performs better against the better defensive teams (Boston/Detroit) and in the Finals.

Nostalgia and Rings may forever cloud your judgment but if you judge them purely on individual production/impact/performances and ability its clear who the better player is.

only one talking about Kobe here is you. And while you have your opinion, so does coaches and GMs and the general consensus among them is Kobe is the much better defensive player based on their voting patterns. Their opinions hold much more weight than your does.

MiamiWadeCounty
10-11-2011, 06:49 PM
wade doesn't lack length he has a freakish wingspan which make up for his lack of size where he's only a little undersized.

Agreed. His wingspan is basically 6'11 :speechless:.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dwyane-Wade-4726/

Chronz
10-11-2011, 09:00 PM
Feel free to post those scouting reports, and any proof of your random opinion.
Do you have any idea how taxing that would be? Most of the time, depending on the poster, if I have the information handy I will post it, so when I refer to something Ive read take it the same way you would take someone stating their opinion. You can dismiss it if you wish but I dont have much more to offer aside from that, still I will oblige your request to the best of my abilities.

Im guessing I dont have to tell you he was a fine defender at that age, if I do then I can find other sources. As for their status as stoppers;



John Hollinger, Basketball Forceast 2006:
"With Wade's emergence as a scorer, Jones became the Heat's primary wing defender"

----------------------------------------------------------

What I could find in a few minutes of googling


(Context: After a 51PT drubbing by VC and 83PTS in 2 GMs vs the Heat)
Ira Winderman:
For Dwyane Wade, the defensive challenges only figure to grow tougher (http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers/2005-12/msg03325.html)
As a matter of perspective, Carter shot
..365 against the Heat in last season's playoffs. The missing piece for this
season's Heat just might be last season's defensive stopper, Eddie Jones.

--------------------------------------------------------




The team's go to defensive stopper wasn't Eddie Jones, we actually were lacking in that spot just like this past season when Wade & LeBron essentially took turns, the same thing happened in 04-05.
Agree to disagree, no matter the team SOMEONE inevitably takes on the task of defending star performers, and in this case Eddie Jones took on the bulk of the scorers in much the same way Posey did, regardless of the swing position, SVG made a point to cross match on several occasions and the majority of the season he made an effort to ensure Wade was on the NON-Scorer.

For instance;

X-Mas Game: Kobe vs Shaq (http://youtu.be/2p79Vj5i_bI)
Quite possibly the most anticipated game of the year, and from the opening tip to the most important final possession SVG elects to start Eddie on Kobe allowing Wade to guard Jumaine Jones (the SF). This kind of thing happened regularly against the elite swings. Obviously Wade had his fair share against everyone but he wasnt the designated stopper Jones was. Nor were his statistical defensive markers as impressive.


Jones wasn't big enough to really play the SF, as he was the same weight as Wade, yet 2 inches taller, and was constantly outmuscled in a number of matchups and out played.
Again I refer you to Bruce Bowen, all 185 lbs of him. Aside from the fact that you can be strong without being massive, being a perimeter stopper isnt all about girth, its about balance and positioning(smarts), quickness laterally, and length, etc..

And as you can see from the example above. The task of defending 6"8 Jumaine Jones fell primarily on Wade. Just like Manu took on SF's whenever the opposing team had a star SG. I understand that it left the team vulnerable against bigger swings, by comparison to every other position opposing SF were the most effective offensively against the Heat. Posey was able to both fill the role of perimeter stopper more effectively against the bigger Forwards.




We tried to add end of bench vets like Shannon Anderson who was known for his defense to fill the role and it didn't work, that's the entire reason we went out and made the trade with Eddie Jones for Posey, a true defensive stopper, and a true SF instead of makeshift SG playing the position.

The entire reason? Really? So the biggest trade ever made at the time was all done for the purpose of acquiring James Posey? Antoine Walker and Jason Williams were just excess baggage that had to be thrown in to make the #'s work? Jokes aside, I was as excited as anyone when Posey got there. Its kind of the feeling I got when Kobe and Jones were sharing the court. It was a nice attempt but ultimately not ideal, that James Posey fit the bill as a perimeter stopper, especially at the 3, better than Jones has nothing to do with the argument Im making (That Jones > Wade defensively). Posey was better than both of them at that point in time. Aside from that, Jones had an alarming rep as a choker so that also played a role in his departure.



My proof is in the results of what actually happened and who we obviously traded that very same "defensive stopper" Eddie Jones for. Where is yours?
Except that the 2 thoughts are not mutually exclusive. James Posey could fit the bill as a stopper better than both Wade/Jones. This fact doesnt prevent Jones from being superior to Wade.

beasted86
10-11-2011, 09:33 PM
Because Jones is put on assignment to defend someone doesn't make him the defensive stopper... this applies to every team. If Darko is asked to defend the PF instead of Center, does this necessarily make him the defensive stopper? No. It might mean that he has 7+ years experience vs. Love's 2+, and they also want to keep Love out of foul trouble.

Jones was known as one of the best defenders in his prime, but by the time 2005 rolled around, his defense was nowhere near the level it used to be. Obviously the trade was made for a number of reasons. It gave the Heat a true PG, a bench scorer, but the reason they were very willing to give up Jones was because as you agreed Posey was a true defensive stopper, and a true SF.

My overall point stands that Eddie wasn't the team's defensive stopper nor best perimeter defender, he was matched up by reason of circumstance and experience not by reason of being a better actual defender than Wade, so the NBA defensive team recognition in favor of Wade isn't affected whatsoever by Jones being on the team. Wade also was also a far more effective help defender and weakside defender... both contributes to all around defense which made him better than Jones.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 09:58 PM
Dwyane Wade is the best defender on the Miami Heat and it isn't even close just like Dwyane Wade is the best player on the Miami and it isn't even close.

xbrackattackx
10-11-2011, 10:14 PM
He's hit or miss but he can buckle it down.