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View Full Version : Will Lebron Ever Get a Magic Johnson Like Finals Redemption?



Tony_Starks
10-08-2011, 11:37 PM
Im watching the Magic and Bird special the other night (which is damn great btw) and it chronicled how Magic choked in the '84 finals. Even though he put up nice numbers when it came to crunch time he blew it in at least 2 games of the series, one of which at home. Critical turnovers, missed free throws, and overall making the wrong decisions with the game on the line. The press killed him all summer calling him names like "Tragic Johnson," and he said it was, at that point, the toughest time of his career. So the next year he is a man on a mission, gets another shot, and had one of the most classic, memorable finals perfomances ever.

The question is do you see Lebron doing that? The stage is completely set for it. His team is definitely equipped for another shot at it. With all this lockout insanity it kind of gets lost in the shuffle the great big huge debacle of a finals he had. Do you think he will redeem himself? Do you even think he needs to redeem himself to cement his legacy as an alltime great winner?

Understand Im not hating on the man but I call it like I see it, a choke is a choke just like my Lakers choked this year against Dallas......

Chacarron
10-08-2011, 11:46 PM
Magic Johnson had a much different mentality.

Tony_Starks
10-08-2011, 11:49 PM
Magic Johnson had a much different mentality.


Very true but until we see Lebrons reaction to failure now that he is on a legit championship team we can't really say.....

soundjunkies2
10-08-2011, 11:54 PM
Yes

He's too good to not redeem himself.

ramz.n
10-08-2011, 11:58 PM
this season wasn't the only time lebron choked...he did it in the finals with the cavs...and once again with the heat...so don't really see him redeeming anything since this was his season.

Chacarron
10-08-2011, 11:59 PM
Very true but until we see Lebrons reaction to failure now that he is on a legit championship team we can't really say.....

He is such a gifted player that he'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

Bruno
10-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Yea. But remember that Magic killed it and won finals MVP in his first two finals at 20 and 22.

soundjunkies2
10-09-2011, 12:01 AM
this season wasn't the only time lebron choked...he did it in the finals with the cavs...and once again with the heat...so don't really see him redeeming anything since this was his season.

How did he choke with the Cavs? He carried a team that wasn't even supposed to be in the Finals.

juno10
10-09-2011, 12:05 AM
this season wasn't the only time lebron choked...he did it in the finals with the cavs...and once again with the heat...so don't really see him redeeming anything since this was his season.

how is it a choke if he wasn't suppose to win that series or even come close

THE GIPPER
10-09-2011, 12:13 AM
this season wasn't the only time lebron choked...he did it in the finals with the cavs...and once again with the heat...so don't really see him redeeming anything since this was his season.

lol

pistonsfanomg
10-09-2011, 12:15 AM
The NBA is not the same so I'm not sure....

last stand
10-09-2011, 12:21 AM
magic johnson was a killer. he smelled blood and attacked. i'm not sure lebron is.

RevisIsland
10-09-2011, 12:27 AM
I don't think he ever he gets a rematch with Dallas, but he'll have another shot in the finals.

iggypop123
10-09-2011, 02:00 AM
there are similarities. tragic magic. he should get his shot what he does with it is a question in itself.

Sadds The Gr8
10-09-2011, 02:04 AM
hopefully not.

Wade>You
10-09-2011, 02:09 AM
Magic Johnson had a much different mentality.


magic johnson was a killer. he smelled blood and attacked. i'm not sure lebron is.

The OPs topic is about when Magic Johnson choked in the Finals and was labeled a choker and killed in the media.... before he became the player you guys are describing. You're factoring in hindsight.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-09-2011, 02:11 AM
no

last stand
10-09-2011, 02:22 AM
The OPs topic is about when Magic Johnson choked in the Finals and was labeled a choker and killed in the media.... before he became the player you guys are describing. You're factoring in hindsight.

thats all nice and dandy but magic johnson had already won 2 NBA titles before that series so the choker label was a tad empty. kind of like calling tom brady a choker for his recent playoff performances despite winning 3 superbowls

so yes magic was a killer. he already had 2 NBA finals MVPs and a game in the 1980 finals where he scored 42 points 15rebounds and 7 assists. in his first NBA finals.

lebron has done no such thing. its not hindsight. he was a killer before the 1984 finals. 2 NBA finals 2 NBA finals mvps and some legendary performances.

so again magic was a killer lebron has not been and may never be

bolts4ever
10-09-2011, 03:21 AM
thats all nice and dandy but magic johnson had already won 2 NBA titles before that series so the choker label was a tad empty. kind of like calling tom brady a choker for his recent playoff performances despite winning 3 superbowls

so yes magic was a killer. he already had 2 NBA finals MVPs and a game in the 1980 finals where he scored 42 points 15rebounds and 7 assists. in his first NBA finals.

lebron has done no such thing. its not hindsight. he was a killer before the 1984 finals. 2 NBA finals 2 NBA finals mvps and some legendary performances.

so again magic was a killer lebron has not been and may never be

exactly Nobody questiones if Magic could do it only critisized his failure, I and many others seruously question if Lebron has the mental fortitude to win a title when he is counted on.

all in all I think Lebron will win 1 or two rings.

MR.TRIPDUB
10-09-2011, 03:22 AM
Tragic johnson... Lebron shames...;)

But seriously hes talented enough to do it, it his mentality that needs to shape up. He is too immAture to handle so much criticism. Whats funny...or sad, is he brought it to himself.

abe_froman
10-09-2011, 04:40 AM
your asking several questions,not just one,but here we go...

The question is do you see Lebron doing that? The stage is completely set for it. His team is definitely equipped for another shot at it. With all this lockout insanity it kind of gets lost in the shuffle the great big huge debacle of a finals he had. Do you think he will redeem himself? he has a shot,but i dont think it will be soon.too much pressure,immaturity.call it whatever but atm i dont think he's equipped to(though am 50/50 on him developing it)


Do you even think he needs to redeem himself to cement his legacy as an alltime great winner? no.there are two distinct camps,separated by an ever widening gap between them when it comes to the subject of lebron.one side-there's is nothing to redeem,he's that no matter what happens(no matter how many choke jobs,no rings,ect. will ever make them look critically upon him).and camp 2-who will be so reluctant to give him that redemption that nothing short of a run like duncan in 03,hakeem in 94 or barry in 75 will allow them to give him any cred for winning and putting him up there

Tony_Starks
10-09-2011, 01:21 PM
your asking several questions,not just one,but here we go...

The question is do you see Lebron doing that? The stage is completely set for it. His team is definitely equipped for another shot at it. With all this lockout insanity it kind of gets lost in the shuffle the great big huge debacle of a finals he had. Do you think he will redeem himself? he has a shot,but i dont think it will be soon.too much pressure,immaturity.call it whatever but atm i dont think he's equipped to(though am 50/50 on him developing it)


Do you even think he needs to redeem himself to cement his legacy as an alltime great winner? no.there are two distinct camps,separated by an ever widening gap between them when it comes to the subject of lebron.one side-there's is nothing to redeem,he's that no matter what happens(no matter how many choke jobs,no rings,ect. will ever make them look critically upon him).and camp 2-who will be so reluctant to give him that redemption that nothing short of a run like duncan in 03,hakeem in 94 or barry in 75 will allow them to give him any cred for winning and putting him up there



You make some good points. I agree that there's a group that is going to forever give him a pass and make excuses regardless of what he does and another group that will never be satisfied no matter what. I also think though that there's a group of us that know he's great, but would just really like to see him dominate a finals to settle the score once and for all in put him in the conversation with the elite winners.

KnicksorBust
10-09-2011, 01:35 PM
He's too good and on too good of a team for them not to win at least 2 rings and he's bound to have some 30-8-8 type games that will help resurrect his legacy. Unfortunately his situation prevents the masses from ever appreciating it on that highest level of respect.

beliges
10-09-2011, 05:56 PM
LBJ is a great player but some of our illusions of him is a detriment to his career. People expect him to be a once in a generation type of player. A player who dominates the league and simply wins championships like MJ, Kobe or Magic. The fact of the matter is LBJ is in his 8th season and has never displayed the type of championship pedigree people expect of him. He is a phenomenal talent but lets leave him out of the comparison with the all timers and allow him to finish out the rest of his career. He is on a type of a dream team with Wade and Bosh. With a roster like that theres no reason why he shouldnt win a title or two. But the problem with Lebron is that everyone expects him to be like MJ or Kobe. Everyone expects him to make every clutch play and be a killer down the stretch on the big stage. Thats just not LBJ.

naps
10-09-2011, 06:27 PM
LBJ is a great player but some of our illusions of him is a detriment to his career. People expect him to be a once in a generation type of player. A player who dominates the league and simply wins championships like MJ, Kobe or Magic. The fact of the matter is LBJ is in his 8th season and has never displayed the type of championship pedigree people expect of him. He is a phenomenal talent but lets leave him out of the comparison with the all timers and allow him to finish out the rest of his career. He is on a type of a dream team with Wade and Bosh. With a roster like that theres no reason why he shouldnt win a title or two. But the problem with Lebron is that everyone expects him to be like MJ or Kobe. Everyone expects him to make every clutch play and be a killer down the stretch on the big stage. Thats just not LBJ.


How so? He flat out dominated the league for more than 4 years now. What are you talking about?

99% of your posts are about Kobe. Don't put Jordan and Kobe on the same sentence. It's the most overrated comparison in sports history.

beliges
10-09-2011, 06:39 PM
How so? He flat out dominated the league for more than 4 years now. What are you talking about?

99% of your posts are about Kobe. Don't put Jordan and Kobe on the same sentence. It's the most overrated comparison in sports history.

Well, hes not clutch, hes never been clutch on the biggest stage, and just this year he lost the finals while having HCA and being clearly favored. He has dominated the league for the past 3 years now, I agree with you. But hes dominated the regular season, not the playoffs, where it matters the most.

And hate to break it to you but Kobe and MJ will forever be linked together when it comes to the NBA. Youre talking about two of the greatest perimeter players to ever play the game.

juno10
10-09-2011, 07:38 PM
Well, hes not clutch, hes never been clutch on the biggest stage, and just this year he lost the finals while having HCA and being clearly favored. He has dominated the league for the past 3 years now, I agree with you. But hes dominated the regular season, not the playoffs, where it matters the most.

And hate to break it to you but Kobe and MJ will forever be linked together when it comes to the NBA. Youre talking about two of the greatest perimeter players to ever play the game.

they're only linked together because they both have similar playing styles, in reality kobe isn't even in the same league as him. greatest of ALL time vs top 15 arguably.

beliges
10-09-2011, 07:44 PM
they're only linked together because they both have similar playing styles, in reality kobe isn't even in the same league as him. greatest of ALL time vs top 15 arguably.

The vast majority of perimeter players from the 00s upto this current date have similar playing styles to MJ. However, its no coincidence Kobe is the only one mentioned with MJ. Look, im not gonna argue with you as to where Kobe stands on the all time list. The general consensus of knowldgeable NBA people all have placed Kobe in the top 8 of all time already. You can think top 15 arguably if youd like as youre entitled to your opinion. Im just telling you that the general consensus puts him in the top 8 at this current point in time and Im more willing to respect the opinions of knowledgeable NBA personell over the opinion of a bias fan.

juno10
10-09-2011, 07:54 PM
Well, hes not clutch, hes never been clutch on the biggest stage, and just this year he lost the finals while having HCA and being clearly favored. He has dominated the league for the past 3 years now, I agree with you. But hes dominated the regular season, not the playoffs, where it matters the most.

And hate to break it to you but Kobe and MJ will forever be linked together when it comes to the NBA. Youre talking about two of the greatest perimeter players to ever play the game.

actually lebron has been clutch in the big stage (chi series,orl series(didn't win but was a beast espcially in the 4th)(det series.) he choked this finals but played well for how raw he was in his first finals series he hit clutch shots in that series.

beliges
10-09-2011, 07:59 PM
actually lebron has been clutch in the big stage (chi series,orl series(didn't win but was a beast espcially in the 4th)(det series.) he choked this finals but played well for how raw he was in his first finals series he hit clutch shots in that series.

Hes had clutch moments, sure. But to say that hes been clutch on the big stage is just far fetched. He had clutch games in the playoffs against the Magic a few years back and also the Celtics. But remember the close out game against the Celtics during his last season with the Cavs? Also, what happened in the Finals last year was just a complete and utter fail on his part. He disappeared and this is something that has haunted him for some time before the 11 Finals. Anyway you want to look at it, LBJ is not known as a clutch performer.

juno10
10-09-2011, 08:13 PM
Hes had clutch moments, sure. But to say that hes been clutch on the big stage is just far fetched. He had clutch games in the playoffs against the Magic a few years back and also the Celtics. But remember the close out game against the Celtics during his last season with the Cavs? Also, what happened in the Finals last year was just a complete and utter fail on his part. He disappeared and this is something that has haunted him for some time before the 11 Finals. Anyway you want to look at it, LBJ is not known as a clutch performer.

who are currently right now clutch performers in the big stage(stars not role playerS)

beliges
10-09-2011, 08:26 PM
First off, being a star or a role player has no significance on being a clutch performer on the big stage. But, Wade's done it, Duncan's done it, Ginobili's done it, Kobe's done it, Fisher's done it, Ray Allen's done it, Paul Pierce can even be argued up here, Dirk's done it. Those are a few of the players that come to mind. Not too many players can be considered clutch and even a fewer number of players have been clutch in the post season and on the big stage. I dont think anyone would consider Lebron one of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. Those guys I mentioned have all done it and all of them have won.

ChiSox219
10-09-2011, 08:54 PM
With all this lockout insanity it kind of gets lost in the shuffle the great big huge debacle of a finals he had.


Mario Chalmers got to the line more times in the Finals than Lebron did, that's messed up.

Chronz
10-09-2011, 11:51 PM
First off, being a star or a role player has no significance on being a clutch performer on the big stage. But, Wade's done it, Duncan's done it, Ginobili's done it, Kobe's done it, Fisher's done it, Ray Allen's done it, Paul Pierce can even be argued up here, Dirk's done it. Those are a few of the players that come to mind. Not too many players can be considered clutch and even a fewer number of players have been clutch in the post season and on the big stage. I dont think anyone would consider Lebron one of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. Those guys I mentioned have all done it and all of them have won.
Those guys you mentioned have all done it and won because they got to play with each other.

Are you trying to show just how irrelevant being clutch is, your just listing a bunch of teammates, so basically you wouldnt have considered Ray Allen clutch without that ring as a 3rd banana or is there something more substantial your basing your opinion of clutch play on?

Paul Pierce was not clutch in his championship run so I cant see any other argument other than saying he won a chip

beliges
10-09-2011, 11:56 PM
Those guys you mentioned have all done it and won because they got to play with each other.

Are you trying to show just how irrelevant being clutch is, your just listing a bunch of teammates, so basically you wouldnt have considered Ray Allen clutch without that ring as a 3rd banana or is there something more substantial your basing your opinion of clutch play on?

Paul Pierce was not clutch in his championship run so I cant see any other argument other than saying he won a chip

Call me crazy but it takes clutchness to go through an entire playoff run and win in the Finals. There will be a bunch of close games in the playoffs since all of the teams are good and each team gets adjusted to the other during a 7 game series. Its no coincidence these guys have all been clutch AND have all at least one ring.

Lebron has more complete fail moments in the playoffs for his career than he does clutch games. The collapse against the Cs and the collapse in last year's Finals just to name a few.

3ballbomber
10-10-2011, 03:11 AM
i predict in a few seasons Wade & Riley will regret ever acquiring him.

PinnacleFlash
10-10-2011, 08:57 AM
i predict in a few seasons Wade & Riley will regret ever acquiring him.

This...

Magic Johnson was already a 2x champion and a Finals MVP before that Tragic Johnson situation, How many championships and finals MVPs does Lebrick have? Oh yeah, NONE for both.

LeBrick James has had three straight playoff appearances with HCA and he has lost all three times.

2009 - had HCA vs. Magic in ECF - loss
2010 - had HCA vs. Celtics in 2nd round - loss
2011 - had HCA vs. Mavericks in finals - loss

The only other all-time great to do that was Charles Barkley. Magic never did it, Michael never even lost with HCA, Bird never did it, etc.


LeBrick is not even the best player on his own team and you fanboys will figure that out eventually.

PinnacleFlash
10-10-2011, 09:11 AM
they're only linked together because they both have similar playing styles, in reality kobe isn't even in the same league as him. greatest of ALL time vs top 15 arguably.

Kobe is a top 10 palyer of all-time, of course you wouldn't know that, then again you also thought the Heat played the Knicks in the 1st round.

LeBron James is just another Karl Malone and like him he won't win jack. Malone was never able to win because of his style of play, same thing goes for LeBron.

You will never win in the NBA with a ball-hog PG in a Power Forward's body. Yes LeBron is a ball-hog and If you don't think so then you probably don't even know what the definition is.

I would call a guy who holds on to the ball for about 16-18 seconds only to drive to either shoot it or kick it off with 4-5 seconds left on the shot-clock a ball-hog.

He is never going to win and it is because of his style of play more than anything.


definition of ball-hog....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_hog


Another example of a ball-hog, is a player that tries to look good statistically. This could be done even through assists. A player that tries to be the best at everything, holds the ball, executes all the plays, from scoring to assisting, can also be known as a ball hog.

Sounds EXACTLY like LeBron to me.

king4day
10-10-2011, 09:22 AM
I thought he had done well in his first finals, just that he didn't have enough talent.
He's going to get it eventually. The only way that happens is Lebron redeeming himself.

Also, I think saying LA choked takes away credit for what the Mavs did to them.

PinnacleFlash
10-10-2011, 09:28 AM
He isn't going to get it, and if he does it is because Wade is carrying him, he isn't going to have anything to do with it. That is why he joined Miami anyways to piggy back Wade, you know? The better player.

Sly Guy
10-10-2011, 12:36 PM
He is such a gifted player that he'll figure it out sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't say that so quick. History is littered with unbelievable athletes who lacked the mental discipline to put them over the hump. Sometimes when a player is too gifted, they start to believe their own hype and it destroys their motor to get better. Is that the case of LeBron? I don't know, but so far, I'd say the results aren't promising.

beliges
10-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Lebron's a great player and will certainly go down as one of the top 25 players of all time when its all said and done. But the question remains if he can crack the top 10, and to do so he has a long ways of winning championships to go. His best chance to attain redemption is for him to improve his game. He is so predictable on offense and that caused him to get absolutely exposed in the finals. The man needs to work on a post game. His entire arsenal is focused on lowering his shoulder and plowing through the defense. That will not work down the stretch. He needs to improve his jumpshot and most importantly, get some resemblance of a post game. With that size, strength and skill he is wasting his talent by not playing with his back to the basket. Until then, i dont think he will ever achieve anywhere near the success as people expect him to.

Dankster
10-10-2011, 02:50 PM
As previous posters stated, Magic had already won 2 titles and is widely regarded as having the single best performance in an NBA final game in his rookie campaign (while wnining MVP,) so the comparison between the 2 men is a bit moot. That being said, he did choke during that series and was the ovbious scapegoat in medias at the time because Lakerland literally expected to win every title from 80-85 so anything besides a championship was considered an abysmal failure.

Magic did end up doing pretty dam good for the remainder of the decade. Lebron is still young (regardless if that sounds likes a tiring excuse,) and still has plenty of time to right his ship as far as legacy goes. For their inaugural season together, Miami didn't do all that bad to play 6 games in the finals. So, basically, yes he should be able to redeem himself, probably a lot sooner than later.

PinnacleFlash
10-10-2011, 03:12 PM
Lebron is already on the decline. Plus without athleticism he is just Luke Walton.

juno10
10-10-2011, 04:02 PM
i predict in a few seasons Wade & Riley will regret ever acquiring him.

yeah im sure they will regret lebron single handley making the team more profitable than it ever was becoming a top7 in franchise valuations, and catapulting them to the nba finals first year he was there.


Kobe is a top 10 palyer of all-time, of course you wouldn't know that, then again you also thought the Heat played the Knicks in the 1st round.LeBron James is just another Karl Malone and like him he won't win jack. Malone was never able to win because of his style of play, same thing goes for LeBron.

You will never win in the NBA with a ball-hog PG in a Power Forward's body. Yes LeBron is a ball-hog and If you don't think so then you probably don't even know what the definition is.

I would call a guy who holds on to the ball for about 16-18 seconds only to drive to either shoot it or kick it off with 4-5 seconds left on the shot-clock a ball-hog.

He is never going to win and it is because of his style of play more than anything.


definition of ball-hog....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_hog

Sounds EXACTLY like LeBron to me.

lol when did i say that

juno10
10-10-2011, 04:19 PM
anyways... yeah i think bron will win multiple championships others have their opinions of him i think he will go down #5 - 10 all time imo he's already better than kobe ever was imo he just needs the accolades. i think its a matter of time, i also believe miami needs a center i have no clue how they made the finals with bosh-anthony front court they should have got raped with their lack of size.

ManningToTyree
10-10-2011, 04:26 PM
Idk if Lebron has the killer instinct Magic had. Magic also had won before chocking so it wasn't as big a deal. LeBron is certaintly capable, but i will believe it when I see it.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 02:35 AM
LeBron is not winning anything for the same reason Karl Malone never won anything. It is a basketball related issue. He has nothing to fall when you take away his ability to drive to the basket.

Not even the best player on his own team.

juno10
10-11-2011, 09:39 AM
LeBron is not winning anything for the same reason Karl Malone never won anything. It is a basketball related issue. He has nothing to fall when you take away his ability to drive to the basket.

Not even the best player on his own team.

too bad there is no michael jordan to stop lebron from winning, the two closes things are either are on his team or declining right now lol.

Dade County
10-11-2011, 11:08 AM
LBJ was just following orders... He'll get plenty of rings when it's all said and done.

Note: ( I don not support LBJ and his secret society )


Go HEAT!

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 11:49 AM
Sorry but you can't win with a ball-hog with no skills as one of your best players then again he isn't even the team's best player, Dwyane Wade is.

juno10
10-11-2011, 11:59 AM
Sorry but you can't win with a ball-hog with no skills as one of your best players then again he isn't even the team's best player, Dwyane Wade is.

so than he can win

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 12:02 PM
so than he can win

Yep, but he can never be the best player on the team since he is clearly inferior to his running mate, DWYANE WADE. CLEARLY inferior, CLEARLY inferior, CLEARLY INFERIOR.

juno10
10-11-2011, 12:04 PM
k,lets hope wade brings him some titles

Da Knicks
10-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Yep, but he can never be the best player on the team since he is clearly inferior to his running mate, DWYANE WADE. CLEARLY inferior, CLEARLY inferior, CLEARLY INFERIOR.

Im confused are you a heat fan? Back to the question, i think like some other posters have pointed out Lebron needs to develop a post up game because of his size. His speed and strenghth have started to decline already and he has no other player on his team that can truly post up when needed. Wade is too small to post up and Bosh is too soft to do it regularly so its up to Lebron to be the player to get it done. Saying this i think it will take him atleast three years before he can develop the post up game that the heat will need going forward.

beliges
10-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Im confused are you a heat fan? Back to the question, i think like some other posters have pointed out Lebron needs to develop a post up game because of his size. His speed and strenghth have started to decline already and he has no other player on his team that can truly post up when needed. Wade is too small to post up and Bosh is too soft to do it regularly so its up to Lebron to be the player to get it done. Saying this i think it will take him atleast three years before he can develop the post up game that the heat will need going forward.

See i think thats what his problem is. LBJ is not the type of player that comes back every season with something new to his arsenal. He is essentially the same player he was when he first came into the league, but just a bit more polished. His signature move is lowering his shoulder and bulldozing his way to the basket. Thats provided him with great numbers throughout the years but thats also the reason why he freezes during crunch time. He is too predictable. He needs to add something to his game every single season and he really hasnt done that yet. Once he gets his jumpshot down, develops much better footwork and refines and utilizes his post game, he will be almost unstoppable, especially down the stretch. Until then however, we will see the same Lebron.

juno10
10-11-2011, 02:26 PM
being in the post just isn't his game ive seen him do it before, when bosh went down and they needed him to become a post player he did it and actually showed off some pretty decent moves, its not that he doesn't have a post game hes just not willling to do it maybe he thinks it takes away from other parts of his game idk, its like asking amare to rebound he can do it we've seen him do it but he just doesnt care for it, for right now hes still pretty beastly but he will need to be more comfortable in the paint for when he loses his athleticism, right now its not a major flaw.

sep11ie
10-11-2011, 02:26 PM
See i think thats what his problem is. LBJ is not the type of player that comes back every season with something new to his arsenal. He is essentially the same player he was when he first came into the league, but just a bit more polished. His signature move is lowering his shoulder and bulldozing his way to the basket. Thats provided him with great numbers throughout the years but thats also the reason why he freezes during crunch time. He is too predictable. He needs to add something to his game every single season and he really hasnt done that yet. Once he gets his jumpshot down, develops much better footwork and refines and utilizes his post game, he will be almost unstoppable, especially down the stretch. Until then however, we will see the same Lebron.


The thing is, will he have the same strength by the time his jumpshot is down? Not saying it's gonna happen soon, but LBJ is gonna be one of those players that will end up like T-Mac. A quick and massive downfall.

juno10
10-11-2011, 02:33 PM
The thing is, will he have the same strength by the time his jumpshot is down? Not saying it's gonna happen soon, but LBJ is gonna be one of those players that will end up like T-Mac. A quick and massive downfall.

his jumpshot is pretty much down as he is a fantastic mid ranger shooter his three needs a bit of work, can you explain why you think he compares to tmac,that guy was raped from injuries

beliges
10-11-2011, 02:45 PM
his jumpshot is pretty much down as he is a fantastic mid ranger shooter his three needs a bit of work, can you explain why you think he compares to tmac,that guy was raped from injuries

Lebron's jumpshot is certainly not fantastic by any means. He is an average jump shooter. His shooting % is high because the majority of his buckets come from using his size and strength getting close to the bucket. His jumpshot is not reliable and that remains a hole in his game. You cannot trust him jumpshot to win games for you.

Baller1
10-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Yes, he'll get full redemption.

juno10
10-11-2011, 02:59 PM
Lebron's jumpshot is certainly not fantastic by any means. He is an average jump shooter. His shooting % is high because the majority of his buckets come from using his size and strength getting close to the bucket. His jumpshot is not reliable and that remains a hole in his game. You cannot trust him jumpshot to win games for you.

lebron shoots 44% from 10-15 ft and and 45% from 16-23 feet better than guys like carmelo

beliges
10-11-2011, 03:38 PM
lebron shoots 44% from 10-15 ft and and 45% from 16-23 feet better than guys like carmelo

Lebron is not a great jumpshooter. Anyone that watches NBA ball and watches LBJ can tell you that. Its not a big secret. His jumpshot is not reliable. Its not one of the strong suits of his game. He has improved it from before, but still, if youre gonna rely on Lebron's jumpshot to win you games then you have a problem.

Carmelo is a better overall scorer than Lebron is. He has a much bigger offensive arsenal. He has better foot work, better post game, and a better outside game. LBJ will improve his shot and other aspects of his game sooner or later. Athleticism does not last forever, and even perhaps the greatest athlete to ever play in the NBA will lose his athleticism at some point. Lebron needs to develop a deadly jumpshot and a post game for him to achieve the level of success as some of the greats of this game.

juno10
10-11-2011, 04:03 PM
yeah when i watch bron i see he has a very solid mid range game his three point shot needs work you said his jumpshot is average i dont agree with that based on stats and the eye tests.

amos1er
10-11-2011, 04:43 PM
Im watching the Magic and Bird special the other night (which is damn great btw) and it chronicled how Magic choked in the '84 finals. Even though he put up nice numbers when it came to crunch time he blew it in at least 2 games of the series, one of which at home. Critical turnovers, missed free throws, and overall making the wrong decisions with the game on the line. The press killed him all summer calling him names like "Tragic Johnson," and he said it was, at that point, the toughest time of his career. So the next year he is a man on a mission, gets another shot, and had one of the most classic, memorable finals perfomances ever.

The question is do you see Lebron doing that? The stage is completely set for it. His team is definitely equipped for another shot at it. With all this lockout insanity it kind of gets lost in the shuffle the great big huge debacle of a finals he had. Do you think he will redeem himself? Do you even think he needs to redeem himself to cement his legacy as an alltime great winner?

Understand Im not hating on the man but I call it like I see it, a choke is a choke just like my Lakers choked this year against Dallas......

This is not even comparable. By 1984 Magic was already a proven winner. Lebron on the other hand is nothing but media hype who has not proven anything. We all knew that Magic could do it, but the same cannot be said about Lebron because he hasn't done it. :facepalm:

JordansBulls
10-11-2011, 05:01 PM
This...

Magic Johnson was already a 2x champion and a Finals MVP before that Tragic Johnson situation, How many championships and finals MVPs does Lebrick have? Oh yeah, NONE for both.

LeBrick James has had three straight playoff appearances with HCA and he has lost all three times.

2009 - had HCA vs. Magic in ECF - loss
2010 - had HCA vs. Celtics in 2nd round - loss
2011 - had HCA vs. Mavericks in finals - loss

The only other all-time great to do that was Charles Barkley. Magic never did it, Michael never even lost with HCA, Bird never did it, etc.


LeBrick is not even the best player on his own team and you fanboys will figure that out eventually.

Barkley only lost 2 series with HCA 1993 to MJ and 1995 to Hakeem and both times it was to superior players.

smith&wesson
10-11-2011, 05:27 PM
If lebrons looking for redemption shouldnt he adress the first team that kicked him out of the finals ? because his firt finals apearance was emberassing much like his 2nd finals apearance.

juno10
10-11-2011, 05:32 PM
If lebrons looking for redemption shouldnt he adress the first team that kicked him out of the finals ? because his firt finals apearance was emberassing much like his 2nd finals apearance.

not really,he wasnt suppose to even come close in the first one plus he played well and was surrounded by horrible players.

beliges
10-11-2011, 06:46 PM
not really,he wasnt suppose to even come close in the first one plus he played well and was surrounded by horrible players.

Nobody in the East that year was supposed to come close to the Finals, but because of how horrible the Conference was that year, somebody had to make it. Lebron made it and he was dominated by the Spurs, who were the better team. Simple as that. The Western conference finals was the obvious championship series that year as was evidenced by the fact that the Spurs ran Lebron and the Cavs off the court with an easy sweep.

smith&wesson
10-11-2011, 07:09 PM
not really,he wasnt suppose to even come close in the first one plus he played well and was surrounded by horrible players.

oh ok so the sweep was not emberassing ? you wouldnt want redemption if you swept out of the finals ?

you cant say lebron was surounded by crap if you look at the other teams in the eastern conference that year, the cavs were the beast TEAM and rightfully so went to the finals. also that crappy suporting cast helped lebron reach two consecutive 60 + win seasons for the cavs.

all im saying is... he is 0-2. he needs redemption, he needs a ring. he needs to start winning period for the sake of his legacy.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 07:14 PM
Barkley only lost 2 series with HCA 1993 to MJ and 1995 to Hakeem and both times it was to superior players.

So now he is the first, even worse. :facepalm:

juno10
10-11-2011, 07:20 PM
oh ok so the sweep was not emberassing ? you wouldnt want redemption if you swept out of the finals ?

you cant say lebron was surounded by crap if you look at the other teams in the eastern conference that year, the cavs were the beast TEAM and rightfully so went to the finals. also that crappy suporting cast helped lebron reach two consecutive 60 + win seasons for the cavs.

all im saying is... he is 0-2. he needs redemtion, he needs a ring. he needs to start winning period for his legacys sake.

that wasn't the same team bron won 60+ games with,it wasn't embarrassing because spurs were considered a championship team and lebron was young somewhat raw and wasn't expected to get past the pistons,spurs 2nd best player ginobli cavs second best? daniel gibson?. cavs werent the best team that season as detroit was expected to beat them as the more experienced as they did the previous year.

i mean even after that cavs still weren't considered a championship team.

i get what your saying though he needs redemption especially since hes on a team who are considered favorites.

PinnacleFlash
10-11-2011, 07:22 PM
I suggest ignoring juno, because he is the biggest LeBron stan on this site and it is not even close. He is still a bit better than that Swashcuff guy though since at least juno can think for himself.