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View Full Version : ESPN is ranking the top 500 including rookies.



Ebbs
10-06-2011, 02:21 PM
System is obviously flawed but during this lockout this has been the most interesting thing to talk about IMO. Today they are revealing 41-45.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7066088/nba-player-rankings-41-45

On Twitter there is some good debate going on Odom at #44 is shaking some heads. Can follow it at #NBArank

Any one else been following this at all?

OGMarkWahlberg
10-06-2011, 02:43 PM
I think you meant top 50 not top 500, and how the **** is josh smith only 43?

Baller1
10-06-2011, 02:47 PM
5 players in the bottom hundred, and 4 players in the top 60. Weird.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 02:56 PM
I think you meant top 50 not top 500, and how the **** is josh smith only 43?

No I meant top 500 go to the link look at the bottom of the page.

And Smith at 43 is fair until he gets a consistent jumper.

Swashcuff
10-06-2011, 03:02 PM
The homer in me absolutely hates this list. It pains me to see Brandon Jennings so high as well. I think the SI list shaped up better than ESPN's.

ChiTownPacerFan
10-06-2011, 03:02 PM
Can't wait to see how overrated Granger is by this list. He's already made it into the top 40, which is madness.

Edit- Also, Paul George one spot below Ricky Rubio... Not cool!

Baller1
10-06-2011, 03:06 PM
Oh, and I almost forgot... Harden is better than Tyreke Evans.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 03:09 PM
The homer in me absolutely hates this list. It pains me to see Brandon Jennings so high as well. I think the SI list shaped up better than ESPN's.

It's an interesting system though 91 writers ranking 1-10. solid sample size.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 03:11 PM
Oh, and I almost forgot... Harden is better than Tyreke Evans.

wow. umm yea no I don't think so. Even injured and having a lesser year. I would have rather have Tyreke who is the better all around player.

ManningToTyree
10-06-2011, 03:21 PM
Why even rank that many? Some of the guys in the bottom 100 won't be in the league a full season more.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Why even rank that many? Some of the guys in the bottom 100 won't be in the league a full season more.

#NBAlockout

OGMarkWahlberg
10-06-2011, 03:35 PM
No I meant top 500 go to the link look at the bottom of the page.

And Smith at 43 is fair until he gets a consistent jumper.

ahh my bad your right, didnt even see that .. i think J-Smoove is much better than 43 tho, he dosent need a consistent jumper tho he just needs to stop taking jumpers, interesting list to see 500 players I caught a glimpse of Byron Mullens hahaha

The_Jamal
10-06-2011, 04:35 PM
Oh, and I almost forgot... Harden is better than Tyreke Evans.

I' love to see you qualify this. Harden isn't even close to Tyreke when he's 100%

smith&wesson
10-06-2011, 04:57 PM
evans >>> harden

Avenged
10-06-2011, 06:14 PM
A healthy Tyreke as a #1 is a better player than Harden when he's not even a #2 option on his team. Last season, sure Harden had a better year but that's a really small sample size considering Tyreke had problems with his foot.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 06:24 PM
ahh my bad your right, didnt even see that .. i think J-Smoove is much better than 43 tho, he dosent need a consistent jumper tho he just needs to stop taking jumpers, interesting list to see 500 players I caught a glimpse of Byron Mullens hahaha

He already stopped taking threes. If he stops taking jumpers at all then he'd be so easy to stop.

Oh and I agree with everyone that this James Harden madness is out of control. Thunder posters were saying he'd have been ROY if he had been drafted by Sacto. I'm happy that they are so high on him but Tyreke is legit and when healthy is a future multi-time All-Star.

Baller1
10-06-2011, 06:33 PM
A healthy Tyreke as a #1 is a better player than Harden when he's not even a #2 option on his team. Last season, sure Harden had a better year but that's a really small sample size considering Tyreke had problems with his foot.

Well... Tyreke was only better in one year as well, which would be just as small of a sample size.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 06:38 PM
Tyreke was significantly better. And wasn't miles behind last year. Tyfreak can do everything.

Baller1
10-06-2011, 06:42 PM
Tyreke was significantly better. And wasn't miles behind last year. Tyfreak can do everything.

As can Harden. I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, but had Harden been drafted into a similar situation as Curry or Tyreke, he would be flourishing.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 06:43 PM
Thunder posters were saying he'd have been ROY if he had been drafted by Sacto. I'm happy that they are so high on him but Tyreke is legit and when healthy is a future multi-time All-Star.

Bada-Bing.


As can Harden. I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, but had Harden been drafted into a similar situation as Curry or Tyreke, he would be flourishing.

Bada-Boom.

Baller1
10-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Bada-Bing.



Bada-Boom.

Your point? I never denied that I firmly believe that.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Irrelevant side note that I just can't help but mention. I remember thinking that if the Thunder didn't take Harden he could actually slip the Knicks at 8. Wolves and Warriors were not interested in him and not tracking SGs. I was pretty pumped. Then Thunder took him, Wolves grabbed Rubio/Flynn like idiots and Warriors stole Curry the pick before us. I didn't talk to my fiancee for at least 15 minutes and consumed 2 beers. :laugh: Sad but true.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 06:48 PM
Your point? I never denied that I firmly believe that.

I'm going to over simplify this but:

1. Do you honestly believe Harden can get to the basket like Evans?
2. Do you honestly believe Harden can rack up assists like Evans?

Baller1
10-06-2011, 06:49 PM
Irrelevant side note that I just can't help but mention. I remember thinking that if the Thunder didn't take Harden he could actually slip the Knicks at 8. Wolves and Warriors were not interested in him and not tracking SGs. I was pretty pumped. Then Thunder took him, Wolves grabbed Rubio/Flynn like idiots and Warriors stole Curry the pick before us. I didn't talk to my fiancee for at least 15 minutes and consumed 2 beers. :laugh: Sad but true.

My best friend at the time was a diehard Knicks fan, and he just about killed himself when GS grabbed Curry.

Baller1
10-06-2011, 06:50 PM
I'm going to over simplify this but:

1. Do you honestly believe Harden can get to the basket like Evans?
2. Do you honestly believe Harden can rack up assists like Evans?

1. No, but do you honestly believe Tyreke can shoot like Harden?
2. Absolutely, 100%.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 06:51 PM
1. No, but do you honestly believe Tyreke can shoot like Harden?
2. Absolutely, 100%.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Irrelevant side note that I just can't help but mention. I remember thinking that if the Thunder didn't take Harden he could actually slip the Knicks at 8. Wolves and Warriors were not interested in him and not tracking SGs. I was pretty pumped. Then Thunder took him, Wolves grabbed Rubio/Flynn like idiots and Warriors stole Curry the pick before us. I didn't talk to my fiancee for at least 15 minutes and consumed 2 beers. :laugh: Sad but true.

Everyone knew NYK wanted Curry. I honestly felt bad. Watching the draft the crowd was furious when he went right in front of them lolz.

mightybosstone
10-06-2011, 06:52 PM
Yeah, I've been following this pretty much since they started, awaiting their new list every day. I've got to say, as a Rockets fan, it's a little disappointing that Kevin Martin is their highest ranked played at No. 42, but I can't say I disagree with most of the team's rankings with the exception of Lowry, who was behind Lawson, but is the better player, IMO.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 06:59 PM
Yeah, I've been following this pretty much since they started, awaiting their new list every day. I've got to say, as a Rockets fan, it's a little disappointing that Kevin Martin is their highest ranked played at No. 42, but I can't say I disagree with most of the team's rankings with the exception of Lowry, who was behind Lawson, but is the better player, IMO.

Yea I was satisfied with the list. I would have liked to see Eliis + Martin swap spots but bigones be bigones.

mightybosstone
10-06-2011, 07:15 PM
One recent ranking that really bothered me was Gerald Wallace at 48 and Tyreke Evans at 47. Regardless of how you feel about Evans, there isn't a chance in hell he's better than Wallace. I thought he and Jennings (No. 60) were both WAY higher than I would have put them. And I honestly disagreed with Jason Kidd at 49. I don't think he's that good of a player anymore. I think 72 for Tony Allen is way too high. That would make him a middle of the road starter talent-wise, and the guy didn't even score nine points a game last season. Barea, Battier and Artest cracking the top 100 also surprised me.

Baller1
10-06-2011, 07:49 PM
I have a feeling Rose is going be higher than people like Durant and CP3.

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 07:59 PM
I have a feeling Rose is going be higher than people like Durant and CP3.

Rose over CP3/KD/Dirk

and Kobe being in the top 5 would be the 2 most frustrating possible things for me.

KnicksorBust
10-06-2011, 08:13 PM
One recent ranking that really bothered me was Gerald Wallace at 48 and Tyreke Evans at 47. Regardless of how you feel about Evans, there isn't a chance in hell he's better than Wallace. I thought he and Jennings (No. 60) were both WAY higher than I would have put them. And I honestly disagreed with Jason Kidd at 49. I don't think he's that good of a player anymore. I think 72 for Tony Allen is way too high. That would make him a middle of the road starter talent-wise, and the guy didn't even score nine points a game last season. Barea, Battier and Artest cracking the top 100 also surprised me.

I feel like I have so much to comment on. I don't know if that makes this a great post or a terrible one. :) j/k MBT.

I'll start with Evans because he's the most polarizing. You don't like him? What's your thoughts on his future?

Sactown
10-06-2011, 08:20 PM
People overlook Tyreke because of last year when he had a foot that on a good day he could hardly walk on... There aren't even 30 players I can think of that I would take over him let alone 46 or whatever. His size, long arms, and strength make him a great defender, while he has the handles of the top 5 PG's in the league... I can't wait to watch him next year

mightybosstone
10-06-2011, 08:27 PM
I feel like I have so much to comment on. I don't know if that makes this a great post or a terrible one. :) j/k MBT.

I'll start with Evans because he's the most polarizing. You don't like him? What's your thoughts on his future?

A lot of reasons. A .482 TS% and a .036 WS/48 is abysmal, and considering that Sacramento team had more talent on it last season and his usage rate dropped, you would have expected him to improve his efficiency. Instead, he takes a huge step backwards. And I realized he had the foot injury, but that's no excuse for being THAT inefficient.

I'm glad that he played less PG last season and Udrih started there, but I don't know that he or Jimmer have the skills to be a legit PG next season. Evans' 1.73 ast/to ratio last season is just unacceptable for a starting PG. If Sacramento plays him at SG (which I assume they will) and Evans can improve his shooting, then I think he has a lot of potential. He can get to the rim as well as anyone in the league and he has the skills to be a pretty decent defender.

But that's potential. Right now, he's extremely inefficient and he couldn't hit a three pointer if he was shooting into a hula hoop made specifically for Jabba the Hutt. I don't know how you can have someone like Grant Hill ranked so far behind him when Hill is so superior at nearly every aspect of the game...

What's next, KOB? Kidd? Allen? Barea? Let's do this...:box:

Avenged
10-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Well... Tyreke was only better in one year as well, which would be just as small of a sample size.

True. But Tyreke's rookie season is already better than both of Harden's anyways. That only leaves room for improvement. Maybe Harden one day will be better, but as of right now he is not.

It's hard to tell when both players have only been in the league for 2 years, but had Tyreke not have gotten injured, I don't think this would have been a discussion. We will see though whenever the season begins.

CeeDub15
10-06-2011, 08:48 PM
Irrelevant side note that I just can't help but mention. I remember thinking that if the Thunder didn't take Harden he could actually slip the Knicks at 8. Wolves and Warriors were not interested in him and not tracking SGs. I was pretty pumped. Then Thunder took him, Wolves grabbed Rubio/Flynn like idiots and Warriors stole Curry the pick before us. I didn't talk to my fiancee for at least 15 minutes and consumed 2 beers. :laugh: Sad but true.

like idiots? lmao man. Rubio hasnt had a chance so to say we took him "like idiots" is beyond ridiculous. Is he can go out and be a 20+ PPG scorer? no, but you dont need a PG that can score to win. We need a guy that can create open shots for others and be disruptive in passing lanes and be able to create turnovers and be pretty solid on defense. I hate how people just completely either tear on the guy or like him especially when he hasnt played 1 minute over here.

I wasnt a fan of Flynn when we drafted him in all honesty, but everyone has bust picks, everyone. He just didnt fit here in Minnesota, the offense we ran didnt fit him either.

As for Curry, you cant tell me many people thought he would translate as well has he has to the NBA.

RevisIsland
10-06-2011, 09:16 PM
I'm not too impressed with this list.

Jtatstarranch
10-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Rose over CP3/KD/Dirk

and Kobe being in the top 5 would be the 2 most frustrating possible things for me.

Dirk has done more in Dallas in one year than rose will do in his entire life.

pjstjkvc16
10-06-2011, 09:39 PM
For the argument on who's better, Harden or Evans, well, from what I understand, Geoff Petrie had Evans number 1 on his list behind Blake Griffin. As we all know, Petrie has been great at the draft, so I'll take his judgement over anyone's. Then again, the Thunder had two great picks the two years prior. But I think Harden wouldn't do as well in the same situation.

Sactown
10-06-2011, 10:14 PM
A lot of reasons. A .482 TS% and a .036 WS/48 is abysmal, and considering that Sacramento team had more talent on it last season and his usage rate dropped, you would have expected him to improve his efficiency. Instead, he takes a huge step backwards. And I realized he had the foot injury, but that's no excuse for being THAT inefficient.

I'm glad that he played less PG last season and Udrih started there, but I don't know that he or Jimmer have the skills to be a legit PG next season. Evans' 1.73 ast/to ratio last season is just unacceptable for a starting PG. If Sacramento plays him at SG (which I assume they will) and Evans can improve his shooting, then I think he has a lot of potential. He can get to the rim as well as anyone in the league and he has the skills to be a pretty decent defender.

But that's potential. Right now, he's extremely inefficient and he couldn't hit a three pointer if he was shooting into a hula hoop made specifically for Jabba the Hutt. I don't know how you can have someone like Grant Hill ranked so far behind him when Hill is so superior at nearly every aspect of the game...

What's next, KOB? Kidd? Allen? Barea? Let's do this...:box:

With the serious foot injury he wasn't able to push off his right foot and explode to the basket or even reach his maximum vert... Also the Kings didn't have any consistent outside shooting threat, which means teams just packed the paint.. also his teammates consistently missed open jump shots and layups when given the ball... Steve Nash would have a hard time getting 8 assist on this team. Also Tyreke is an extremely good defender and won games on the side of the floor alone.. also he is very clutch and calm at his age.. Yes we know his jump shooting is a work in progress, but many players with his injury wouldn't have even stepped on the court for 1 game let alone the many he did..

Ebbs
10-06-2011, 11:14 PM
Dirk has done more in Dallas in one year than rose will do in his entire life.

Dirks my favorite player ever but it seems a little early to say that given Roses age.

Baller1
10-07-2011, 12:30 AM
True. But Tyreke's rookie season is already better than both of Harden's anyways. That only leaves room for improvement. Maybe Harden one day will be better, but as of right now he is not.

It's hard to tell when both players have only been in the league for 2 years, but had Tyreke not have gotten injured, I don't think this would have been a discussion. We will see though whenever the season begins.

Fair enough, I agree that it'd be a lot different had Tyreke not gotten injured. But with that said, I could flip that and say had Harden not gotten drafted into a tougher situation to succeed, he could be flourishing.

Like you said, it's only been two seasons, so we'll have to wait and see. It's 1-1 right now (although I'm aware Tyreke had the better season overall).

naps
10-07-2011, 07:45 AM
Well... Tyreke was only better in one year as well, which would be just as small of a sample size.

Dude, c'mon now. I like Harden's game a lot but he's no Tyreke. Tyreke is a potential franchise superstar but I don't see that in Harden. If he can stay healthy I see Dwyane Wade version 2.0 in Tyreke.

Ill21
10-07-2011, 08:47 AM
Tyreke>Harden

magichatnumber9
10-07-2011, 08:57 AM
watching grass grow is more interesting then waiting for these lists to pop up.

mightybosstone
10-07-2011, 10:27 AM
I think Evans is the sexier player and has the potential to eventually be a superstar (although I give no one the benefit of the doubt), but if I'm a contender and I had to pick one player right now, I might take Harden. I doubt Harden will ever be a 20, 5 and 5 guy, but I wouldn't be shocked if he ever cracked the 20 ppg mark, and I would be shocked if he didn't average at least 15-18 ppg this season. And he was extremely efficient last season and saw a legitimate improvement from his rookie year.

Evans, on the other hand, is a huge question mark to me. Regardless of his injury, his numbers last season would have been bad for a buy playing on one leg. He has not developed a shot yet, his court vision seems overrated to me and the two things he has working for him are his ability to get to the rim (which he doesn't do enough)and his defense. Until he develops a jump shot that works, significantly improves his shot selection and proves he can get to the rim at an elite level (he was 40th in FTA per game last season), I'm not going to be high on him...

Ebbs
10-07-2011, 01:32 PM
#40 = John Wall
#39 = Eric Gordon.

I don't think John Wall truly deserves a spot in the top 50 if were being honest. Would I take him over alot of people if I was starting a franchise from the ground? He'll yes. But I don't think he gives you the nest chance to win over alot of players taken earlier.

Chacarron
10-07-2011, 02:23 PM
I like that Eric Gordon is getting recognition somewhere. He is very underrated in PSD.

The_Jamal
10-08-2011, 02:05 PM
I think Evans is the sexier player and has the potential to eventually be a superstar (although I give no one the benefit of the doubt), but if I'm a contender and I had to pick one player right now, I might take Harden. I doubt Harden will ever be a 20, 5 and 5 guy, but I wouldn't be shocked if he ever cracked the 20 ppg mark, and I would be shocked if he didn't average at least 15-18 ppg this season. And he was extremely efficient last season and saw a legitimate improvement from his rookie year.

Evans, on the other hand, is a huge question mark to me. Regardless of his injury, his numbers last season would have been bad for a buy playing on one leg. He has not developed a shot yet, his court vision seems overrated to me and the two things he has working for him are his ability to get to the rim (which he doesn't do enough)and his defense. Until he develops a jump shot that works, significantly improves his shot selection and proves he can get to the rim at an elite level (he was 40th in FTA per game last season), I'm not going to be high on him...

How can you disregard a foot injury? Yes, he still needs a jump shot, but his foot injury pretty much affected his entire offensive game of getting to the rim at an elite level.

D Roses Bulls
10-16-2011, 01:30 AM
they have westbrook at 15? I thought a lot of you said he was top 10?

dhopisthename
10-16-2011, 01:36 AM
they have westbrook at 15? I thought a lot of you said he was top 10?

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655051
he got 3 votes, 15 is about where he would go if we went that far

D Roses Bulls
10-16-2011, 01:40 AM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655051
he got 3 votes, 15 is about where he would go if we went that far

I havent been in the NBA forum much in the off season, I just remember seeing during the season a lot of people saying he's top 10 and such. that's what I'm talkin about.

NYman15
10-16-2011, 01:41 AM
They had Amare and Melo at 13 and 12. Wat too low in my opinion. Specifically, Melo. Blake Grffin is not better than Melo.

dhopisthename
10-16-2011, 01:54 AM
They had Amare and Melo at 13 and 12. Wat too low in my opinion. Specifically, Melo. Blake Grffin is not better than Melo.

I was just looking that up I was really surprised that blake griffin is going to make the top 10. I think that is way to high. how can you justify putting him over amare and pau two players that play his position or for my money even bosh and kevin love?

John Walls Era
10-16-2011, 02:14 AM
Yes everyone hates Bosh, but how can he be below Aldridge? Don't give me arbitrary stats, Bosh has done everything LA has done... except the Raptors actually made the playoffs.

I don't wanna say this, but how is John Wall higher than Ellis?

List is all over the place.

Knicks21
10-16-2011, 03:00 AM
I have a real problem with Blake Griffin being in the top 10, over Amare and Gasol at the PF position is wrong.

Ebbs
10-16-2011, 03:09 AM
Griffin in the top 10 is by far the biggest screw up on their list.

alencp3
10-16-2011, 06:52 AM
Hell yeah, blake top 10 thats what im talking about

Hellcrooner
10-16-2011, 01:07 PM
this list has been a screw up from the begginging.

just look at the spaniards.

Ricky Overated( since he still has done nothing yet).
Rudy Overated.
Calderon Underated.
Marc Gasol slightly overated.
Pau gasol Underated


they havent ranked any of them right.

Bosh under aldrige? wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!

griffin top 10?????????

deron top 10 over Pau/melo/stou? .....whatever.

they only need to put rose top 3 to make it even more laughable.

and wtf are they ranking, potential? last season? playoff performance? its confusing