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SaimuKala
10-06-2011, 10:02 AM
If The Knicks sign CP3 then who would have a better big 3?

Sly Guy
10-06-2011, 10:06 AM
knicks for sure. They've much more balanced attack. The result won't be unanimous among the PSD faithful, but this topic has been covered in a million threads already.

todu82
10-06-2011, 10:07 AM
It would still be the Heat. They'd have 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA.

DoMeFavors
10-06-2011, 10:16 AM
Miami has the best defense in the NBA, Knicks have one of the worst.
Knicks would have to have one of the best offenses that counters Miamis offense and defense.

GodsSon
10-06-2011, 10:16 AM
He'll be done in 3 years. Don't get me wrong, he's a generational type of talent, but his body will eventually succumb to the injuries.

If the Knicks sign him, they'll be locked into paying him a long-term contract that he won't live up to. Just my opinion.

Ill21
10-06-2011, 10:17 AM
It would still be the Heat. They'd have 2 of the top 5 players in the NBA.

Would you rather have 2 top 5 players or 3 top 10 players?

DoMeFavors
10-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Would you rather have 2 top 5 players or 3 top 10 players?

Amare aint top ten

Slug3
10-06-2011, 10:19 AM
I just look at it as
Wade over CP3
Lebron over Melo
Amare over Bosh

GodsSon
10-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Amare aint top ten

Neither is Carmelo. Arguably top 15 though.

GodsSon
10-06-2011, 10:30 AM
Carmelo is without a doubt a top 10 player. Probably top 8. Your just mad that the future of your franchise is ****ing Demar Derozan.

Glenn Robinson 2.0 is definitely not a top 10 player...top 12-15 I can give him, but that's it.

Who's mad? Judging from your post, you sure sound like your feelings got hurt lol

Ill21
10-06-2011, 10:35 AM
Glenn Robinson 2.0 is definitely not a top 10 player...top 12-15 I can give him, but that's it.

Who's mad? Judging from your post, you sure sound like your feelings got hurt lol

Who is your top 10?

LakersIn5
10-06-2011, 10:36 AM
melo is definitely a top 10. though im more of a knick fan i still think that in a 7 game series miami would win.

ewmania
10-06-2011, 10:36 AM
Neither is Carmelo. Arguably top 15 though.

if thats the case neither is bosh lol

colinskik
10-06-2011, 10:50 AM
He'll be done in 3 years. Don't get me wrong, he's a generational type of talent, but his body will eventually succumb to the injuries.

If the Knicks sign him, they'll be locked into paying him a long-term contract that he won't live up to. Just my opinion.
If he somehow ends up on the Knicks with the type of offensive firepower in Amare and Melo, CP3 won't have to get roughed up as much as he'll be solely dishing the ball, racking up dimes at a double digit average.

Sly Guy
10-06-2011, 10:53 AM
I just look at it as
Wade over CP3
Lebron over Melo
Amare over Bosh

these are such weak comparisons. It takes chemistry completely out of the equation. I never buy these types of arguments any more than I buy GOAT by 'rings'.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-06-2011, 10:54 AM
heat

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 10:57 AM
in all seriousness, comparing carmelo anthony to glenn robinson is awful

Melo won a national champtionship
olympic gold medal, as well as all tourney honors amongst the best of his piers in olympic play as well as worlds play; for any one to degrade this man, has not recognized his body of work in that he has never missed the playoffs, and playing in denver has widely pushed down his value as a top notch player in this league, had he been groomed in LA, or Chicago, or Boston, or NY since day one he would be revered as a premeir SF in this league.

The only thing that ever killed him that separates him from the likes of a durant in OKC, or a Rose in chicago, is that he had to battle the likes of Wade and James since his first game in this league; he has always been compared to his draft class, which is significantly more difficult to do than the likes of Roses draft class, and Durant who more often is compared to Greg Oden with regards to his draft mates.


bottom line is

I honestly dont see Carmelo anthony fading in the spotlight the way Lebron does in the finals

if Carmelo is on that heat team, that series goes 7 games easily, being that down the stretch Carmelo wouldnt be afraid to get to go back at Shawn Marion the way Lebron seemed to be.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 10:59 AM
Miami for sure but CP3 makes it much closer indeed. CP3 is a top 5 player imo and is head and shoulders above all other point guards and makes his teammates better. NY would still have no answer for Wade unless their rookie is really all that they are hyping him to be defensively. Lebron is 10x the player Melo is and Amare sucks at defending so Bosh will have his way as well.

The only advantage NY would have is Paul who will likely have his way unless they put Wade on him since Lebron has to stay with Melo

I pick MIA in 7

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 11:00 AM
And how are they getting CP3 in the first place? With the cap space they won't have? Or way of the trade with the pieces that NO would laugh at? Certainly not many picks to dangle.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Who cares which three would be better? It's a team game and if Miami signs Dalembert like I think they will that will give them a significant advantage over the Knicks.

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 11:08 AM
And how are they getting CP3 in the first place? With the cap space they won't have? Or way of the trade with the pieces that NO would laugh at? Certainly not many picks to dangle.

in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here, I hear things like he will go to OKC for west brook, but in all honesty, where is the better future

CP3 Amare Melo

is much better than
CPS durant and a group of very good role players, but no legit 3rd star.

juno10
10-06-2011, 11:08 AM
in all seriousness, comparing carmelo anthony to glenn robinson is awful

Melo won a national champtionship
olympic gold medal, as well as all tourney honors amongst the best of his piers in olympic play as well as worlds play; for any one to degrade this man, has not recognized his body of work in that he has never missed the playoffs, and playing in denver has widely pushed down his value as a top notch player in this league, had he been groomed in LA, or Chicago, or Boston, or NY since day one he would be revered as a premeir SF in this league.

The only thing that ever killed him that separates him from the likes of a durant in OKC, or a Rose in chicago, is that he had to battle the likes of Wade and James since his first game in this league; he has always been compared to his draft class, which is significantly more difficult to do than the likes of Roses draft class, and Durant who more often is compared to Greg Oden with regards to his draft mates.


bottom line is

I honestly dont see Carmelo anthony fading in the spotlight the way Lebron does in the finals
if Carmelo is on that heat team, that series goes 7 games easily, being that down the stretch Carmelo wouldnt be afraid to get to go back at Shawn Marion the way Lebron seemed to be.

i think he would, i don't think melo has the conditioning to play 82 game series plus the finals and still play at a high level, he was huffing and puffing late in that WCF laker series, if his conditioning was up to par they probably would have beat the lakers. with that said miami would get swept by the bulls (and celtics ) if melo was on that team, both deng and pierce would probably go ham.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:09 AM
in all seriousness, comparing carmelo anthony to glenn robinson is awful

Melo won a national champtionship
olympic gold medal, as well as all tourney honors amongst the best of his piers in olympic play as well as worlds play; for any one to degrade this man, has not recognized his body of work in that he has never missed the playoffs, and playing in denver has widely pushed down his value as a top notch player in this league, had he been groomed in LA, or Chicago, or Boston, or NY since day one he would be revered as a premeir SF in this league.

The only thing that ever killed him that separates him from the likes of a durant in OKC, or a Rose in chicago, is that he had to battle the likes of Wade and James since his first game in this league; he has always been compared to his draft class, which is significantly more difficult to do than the likes of Roses draft class, and Durant who more often is compared to Greg Oden with regards to his draft mates.


bottom line is

I honestly dont see Carmelo anthony fading in the spotlight the way Lebron does in the finals

if Carmelo is on that heat team, that series goes 7 games easily, being that down the stretch Carmelo wouldnt be afraid to get to go back at Shawn Marion the way Lebron seemed to be.

This is a very fair way to look at it. i still think Melo is overrated but i agree that had he been in the NBA Finals in place of Bron the Heat might have done better. However.. without Lebron they wouldnt have gotten past CHI and possibly not even BOS so really you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Melo is a ball stopper and average at best defensively. MIA was dominant because of their defense more than anything. Also you are neglecting what Lebrons passing does for MIA which Melo does not bring.

Melo is a simple player. He is a clutch elite volume scorer with the heart of a lion. Nothing more and nothing less.

juno10
10-06-2011, 11:11 AM
in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here, I hear things like he will go to OKC for west brook, but in all honesty, where is the better future

CP3 Amare Melo

is much better than
CPS durant and a group of very good role players, but no legit 3rd star.

if paul becomes a ***** and says i will only accept a trade with the knicks and knicks offered that i really hope they just let paul walk thats just a slap to the face.

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Who cares which three would be better? It's a team game and if Miami signs Dalembert like I think they will that will give them a significant advantage over the Knicks.

why does every one love Dalembert, this is what the NBA has turned into, which is exactly why the Owners want stipulations in the new CBA to avoid such things; Dalembert is awful, his percentages are terrible, he does rebound the ball, but checks out of games if he doesnt get enough shots, which is why Cousins took time away from him in Sacramento, and why Philly traded him for what most would consider a lesser value in hawes.

Dalembert isnt the answer to any ones championship needs, as he is more of a chemistry killer than a contributor. if Mia wants to spend what little cap room they have left and add dalembert, fine, but I would rather pick up another shooter if i was them, because realistically Miller isnt dependable and Joel Anthony appears to be moving into a role for cheaper that provides the same impact as a Dalembert would. Dalembert in a miami uniform would put up 5 pph 7 reb 1.5 blks in 30 minutes a game.

Joel anthony is perfectly capable of doing that for cheaper.

I dont even want Dalembert on the knicks, I would rather jeff foster than an underachieving over paid chemistry killer like Samuel.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 11:13 AM
in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here, I hear things like he will go to OKC for west brook, but in all honesty, where is the better future

CP3 Amare Melo

is much better than
CPS durant and a group of very good role players, but no legit 3rd star.

It remains to be seen whether or not the Knicks will have the cap space to outright sign Paul. As it stands now I believe he'd have to take a considerable paycut to sign with them outright.

If that's the case he loses a lot of his leverage in terms of demanding a trade to the Knicks.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 11:14 AM
in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here, I hear things like he will go to OKC for west brook, but in all honesty, where is the better future

CP3 Amare Melo

is much better than
CPS durant and a group of very good role players, but no legit 3rd star.

If NO is trading CP3, you think they care more about his future, or NO's? He can't tell them he is signing with NY because NY won't have the space.

What 2 first round picks do the Knicks have? Are you talking like 2014 or 15? And with Billups expiring after a year, are you telling me NO would settle for basically Fields and 2 picks 3-4 years down the line? CP3 has no influence in this trade.

NO can trade him wherever they want and nobody in their right mind would accept Billups and Fields for CP3 when they could probably get Westbrook or someone of that nature.

I swear, i've spoked with other Knick fans here and most are delusional on the facts of the situation. You are all convinced that you can just sign him outright, when in fact Melo + Stat will likely take up 75% of your cap space. Unless CP3 signs for less than the current mid-level exception, you still need 9 more players on that team. Then most also believe NO would accept a package based around Fields and picks 4 years down the line. Delusional.

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 11:14 AM
This is a very fair way to look at it. i still think Melo is overrated but i agree that had he been in the NBA Finals in place of Bron the Heat might have done better. However.. without Lebron they wouldnt have gotten past CHI and possibly not even BOS so really you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Melo is a ball stopper and average at best defensively. MIA was dominant because of their defense more than anything. Also you are neglecting what Lebrons passing does for MIA which Melo does not bring.

Melo is a simple player. He is a clutch elite volume scorer with the heart of a lion. Nothing more and nothing less.

but how is lebron not a ball stopper

when the heat played the knicks last year, I specifically remember the ball moving around the perimeter setting up isolations for Carmelo to go at lebron all game long

when lebron touched the ball, even hubie brown was losing his mind, stating that this looks awful, and how can they just sit there and let lebron hold the ball like this, its terrible.

lebron is the worst with sitting in quick sand, because when he isnt the guy who needs to take all the shots, he gets confused with whether he wants to or not and holds the ball.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:14 AM
in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here, I hear things like he will go to OKC for west brook, but in all honesty, where is the better future

CP3 Amare Melo

is much better than
CPS durant and a group of very good role players, but no legit 3rd star.

Your first post in this thread was pretty fair. This post is utter garbage. The only reason Paul should not want OKC is because its OKC. Swap Westbrook and CP3 and the Thunder become the favorite to challenge MIA for the next 5 years. With CP3 the Thunder would have gotten past DAL imo and beat MIA too. You have no idea what your talking about.

That hypothetical team would be :drool: worthy and way more complete than Amare,Paul,Melo and garbage

EDIT: Not to mention that the trade makes sense for both teams. Paul wants to win and loves NO so he might love to let his team get a guy like Westbrook for him so as not to do what Lebron did to CLE or Melo did to DEN. OKC gets the missing piece and NO gets their future star. What package does MY have that can match that?

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 11:17 AM
why does every one love Dalembert, this is what the NBA has turned into, which is exactly why the Owners want stipulations in the new CBA to avoid such things; Dalembert is awful, his percentages are terrible, he does rebound the ball, but checks out of games if he doesnt get enough shots, which is why Cousins took time away from him in Sacramento, and why Philly traded him for what most would consider a lesser value in hawes.

Dalembert isnt the answer to any ones championship needs, as he is more of a chemistry killer than a contributor. if Mia wants to spend what little cap room they have left and add dalembert, fine, but I would rather pick up another shooter if i was them, because realistically Miller isnt dependable and Joel Anthony appears to be moving into a role for cheaper that provides the same impact as a Dalembert would. Dalembert in a miami uniform would put up 5 pph 7 reb 1.5 blks in 30 minutes a game.

Joel anthony is perfectly capable of doing that for cheaper.

I dont even want Dalembert on the knicks, I would rather jeff foster than an underachieving over paid chemistry killer like Samuel.

Personally I feel like every Championship contending team needs a defensive presence to guard the rim. Dalembert fits that need exactly.

I'm not suprised that he had issues playing in Sacto which seems like it has chemistry issues a plenty. Wade's leadership should be more than enough to keep him on task.

As for a shooter - those are usually available off of the scrap heap.

Dade County
10-06-2011, 11:17 AM
Knicks will be the 2nd best team in the east when the playoffs roll around; if or when they get Cp3... ( I'm not talking about records wise)

Bulls will have to answer by adding another star...

C's will have to hope that good free agents will sign with them for the cheap...

Magic fans just have to hope that Howard doesn't go anywhere ...

ATL needs to start over, because they are stuck in the 3 to 5 seed spot...

HEAT roster can only get better, depending on new cba of course.

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 11:17 AM
If NO is trading CP3, you think they care more about his future, or NO's? He can't tell them he is signing with NY because NY won't have the space.

What 2 first round picks do the Knicks have? Are you talking like 2014 or 15? And with Billups expiring after a year, are you telling me NO would settle for basically Fields and 2 picks 3-4 years down the line? CP3 has no influence in this trade.

NO can trade him wherever they want and nobody in their right mind would accept Billups and Fields for CP3 when they could probably get Westbrook or someone of that nature.

what I am saying is, if you trade for west brook, realistically do you see west brook staying with the hornets in 2 years ?

you have to think long term if you are the NBA and the hornets management.

You have to either strip and rebuild , or move the team to another city at this point, because no one is going to want to stay there, they have a poor fan base with regards to crowds and revenue, and they will never get enough pieces to win a championship, you trade paul for west brook, within a year of going 30-52 in the west, westbrook will be putting new orleans in the same place as paul did

think about it


you trade paul for some picks and some expiring contracts, hit the lottery, and maintain enough money to resign your youth

and find a way to move arizas waste of a contract as well.

once okafor comes off the books, west is off the books, and paul is gone

you can now move the team, and rebuild from scratch.

its the only way to fly at this point if you are the hornets.

juno10
10-06-2011, 11:19 AM
but how is lebron not a ball stopper

when the heat played the knicks last year, I specifically remember the ball moving around the perimeter setting up isolations for Carmelo to go at lebron all game long

when lebron touched the ball, even hubie brown was losing his mind, stating that this looks awful, and how can they just sit there and let lebron hold the ball like this, its terrible.

lebron is the worst with sitting in quick sand, because when he isnt the guy who needs to take all the shots, he gets confused with whether he wants to or not and holds the ball.

ok lebron can be a ball stopper at times, but melo is a black hole once you give him the ball he puts his head down and doesn't pass out.

Dontforgetderek
10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
Your first post in this thread was pretty fair. This post is utter garbage. The only reason Paul should not want OKC is because its OKC. Swap Westbrook and CP3 and the Thunder become the favorite to challenge MIA for the next 5 years. With CP3 the Thunder would have gotten past DAL imo and beat MIA too. You have no idea what your talking about.

That hypothetical team would be :drool: worthy and way more complete than Amare,Paul,Melo and garbage

EDIT: Not to mention that the trade makes sense for both teams. Paul wants to win and loves NO so he might love to let his team get a guy like Westbrook for him so as not to do what Lebron did to CLE or Melo did to DEN. OKC gets the missing piece and NO gets their future star. What package does MY have that can match that?


so westbrook wont do the same thing to NO that paul would do with regards to wanting the leave, every one acts like NO would be prevailing in a sense by picking up an all star PG in return for paul but in reality they are just recycling themselves into the same position they are in now, which is a failing revenue, and a star who doesnt want to fade away in new orleans.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 11:20 AM
what I am saying is, if you trade for west brook, realistically do you see west brook staying with the hornets in 2 years ?

you have to think long term if you are the NBA and the hornets management.

You have to either strip and rebuild , or move the team to another city at this point, because no one is going to want to stay there, they have a poor fan base with regards to crowds and revenue, and they will never get enough pieces to win a championship, you trade paul for west brook, within a year of going 30-52 in the west, westbrook will be putting new orleans in the same place as paul did

think about it


you trade paul for some picks and some expiring contracts, hit the lottery, and maintain enough money to resign your youth

and find a way to move arizas waste of a contract as well.

once okafor comes off the books, west is off the books, and paul is gone

you can now move the team, and rebuild from scratch.

its the only way to fly at this point if you are the hornets.

By this logic there is no way in hell Paul gets traded to the Knicks. The most important piece of your proposition is valuable draft picks. The Knicks do not have that.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:21 AM
why does every one love Dalembert, this is what the NBA has turned into, which is exactly why the Owners want stipulations in the new CBA to avoid such things; Dalembert is awful, his percentages are terrible, he does rebound the ball, but checks out of games if he doesnt get enough shots, which is why Cousins took time away from him in Sacramento, and why Philly traded him for what most would consider a lesser value in hawes.

Dalembert isnt the answer to any ones championship needs, as he is more of a chemistry killer than a contributor. if Mia wants to spend what little cap room they have left and add dalembert, fine, but I would rather pick up another shooter if i was them, because realistically Miller isnt dependable and Joel Anthony appears to be moving into a role for cheaper that provides the same impact as a Dalembert would. Dalembert in a miami uniform would put up 5 pph 7 reb 1.5 blks in 30 minutes a game.

Joel anthony is perfectly capable of doing that for cheaper.

I dont even want Dalembert on the knicks, I would rather jeff foster than an underachieving over paid chemistry killer like Samuel.

What else do they need? All MIA would need from him rebounding, defense, garbage points, and converting Lebron and Wade dishes. The big three handle the rest. Thats why they joined in 2010 :shrug:

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:23 AM
It remains to be seen whether or not the Knicks will have the cap space to outright sign Paul. As it stands now I believe he'd have to take a considerable paycut to sign with them outright.

If that's the case he loses a lot of his leverage in terms of demanding a trade to the Knicks.

Players like Paul get their main bread from endorsements anyway. If the Knicks can offer him anything above 14mil i think they will get him. IDK what the Knicks cap situation is so i dont know how much they can offer him but i think he takes a pay cut

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 11:23 AM
what I am saying is, if you trade for west brook, realistically do you see west brook staying with the hornets in 2 years ?

you have to think long term if you are the NBA and the hornets management.

You have to either strip and rebuild , or move the team to another city at this point, because no one is going to want to stay there, they have a poor fan base with regards to crowds and revenue, and they will never get enough pieces to win a championship, you trade paul for west brook, within a year of going 30-52 in the west, westbrook will be putting new orleans in the same place as paul did

think about it


you trade paul for some picks and some expiring contracts, hit the lottery, and maintain enough money to resign your youth

and find a way to move arizas waste of a contract as well.

once okafor comes off the books, west is off the books, and paul is gone

you can now move the team, and rebuild from scratch.

its the only way to fly at this point if you are the hornets.

So that forces them to deal with the Knicks? Because they are going broke?

They can do that with virtually any team. They would be looking to get young players on rookie contracts that are cheap and controllable for years. What players do the Knicks have that fall under that category? Think more Steph Curry type player, not Landry Fields.

Oh and 2 years of westbrook>>>>>>>>>>>any package the Knicks would offer

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:24 AM
but how is lebron not a ball stopper

when the heat played the knicks last year, I specifically remember the ball moving around the perimeter setting up isolations for Carmelo to go at lebron all game long

when lebron touched the ball, even hubie brown was losing his mind, stating that this looks awful, and how can they just sit there and let lebron hold the ball like this, its terrible.

lebron is the worst with sitting in quick sand, because when he isnt the guy who needs to take all the shots, he gets confused with whether he wants to or not and holds the ball.

Are you kidding me right now???

NYman15
10-06-2011, 11:29 AM
Heat would still have the better players, however I believe the Knicks big 3 would work much better. You'd have a true PG, a true scoring SF, and a big man.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:32 AM
what I am saying is, if you trade for west brook, realistically do you see west brook staying with the hornets in 2 years ?

you have to think long term if you are the NBA and the hornets management.

You have to either strip and rebuild , or move the team to another city at this point, because no one is going to want to stay there, they have a poor fan base with regards to crowds and revenue, and they will never get enough pieces to win a championship, you trade paul for west brook, within a year of going 30-52 in the west, westbrook will be putting new orleans in the same place as paul did

think about it


you trade paul for some picks and some expiring contracts, hit the lottery, and maintain enough money to resign your youth

and find a way to move arizas waste of a contract as well.

once okafor comes off the books, west is off the books, and paul is gone

you can now move the team, and rebuild from scratch.

its the only way to fly at this point if you are the hornets.

Yes. Honestly Westbrook will most likely be looking for a payday not really for a contender. He will get to be the main star which i think he craves more than ppl realize and he will get the max no doubt. I dont think lots of young players like him dont really start caring about rings until they been around longer

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:34 AM
finally somebody needs to say it lebron james is overrated not carmelo first of all he isnt even the best player on his team wade is better and i dont see how he can be the best player in the leauge and choke in the finals like dat and secondly the knicks big three would be crazy the best point guard who nobody realizes it but would elevate amares play to probaly the best pf in the league thats what would make the knicks special and then carmelo could finish the games this isn't even a question

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:36 AM
oh yeah an for all you knick haters chris paul already said he is willing to take a pay cut to join the knicks because he can make it up in endorsements

Swashcuff
10-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Give me the three that play D.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 11:38 AM
oh yeah an for all you knick haters chris paul already said he is willing to take a pay cut to join the knicks because he can make it up in endorsements

How about you link us to that? We'll wait. Probably for a while because he never said that.

pd1dish
10-06-2011, 11:38 AM
Would you rather have 2 top 5 players or 3 top 10 players?

hahahahaha, yeah if those 3 fall under the top 10. too bad 1 of them, maybe even 2, are not top 10. Amare is definitely not a top 10 player and dont get me wrong about Melo. hes a top scorer and probably the most rounded offensive player in the league, but his defense and the Knicks' defense as a whole will never be as good as Miami.

Miami's offense is only going to improve as they acquire more role players and now that the big 3 look like theyve got their chemistry together, they are also going to be dominant offensively. the only teams that will get past Miami are going to be great defensive teams. however, along with that defense, you need good offense as well to get past Miami. NY doesnt have that mix even if with CP3, and imo, thats a big if.

NYman15
10-06-2011, 11:39 AM
Players like Paul get their main bread from endorsements anyway. If the Knicks can offer him anything above 14mil i think they will get him. IDK what the Knicks cap situation is so i dont know how much they can offer him but i think he takes a pay cut

Agreed. Cp3 is the type of guy who would take a pay cut and he will get even more endorsements while playing in NY. And we don't know the cap situation until the new CBA comes out. However, as of now the Knicks have 3 guaranteed contracts on the books in 2012. Melo and Amare make up roughly 40 million dollars. Then they have Balkman who makes roughly a little over 1 million. However, if there's an amnesty clause, he would most likely be cut. That's it. No one else is guaranteed. Now if you take into consideration them keeping a few of their rookies and filling out the rest of their roster with minimum salary guys, there, probably, around 45 million, maybe a little less or a little more. If the cap was put at 60 milion, possible, with no hard cap, they might have enough to get a deal done.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:41 AM
oh yeah an for all you knick haters chris paul already said he is willing to take a pay cut to join the knicks because he can make it up in endorsements

Im guessing your the Knick version of DoMeFavors?

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:42 AM
finally somebody needs to say it lebron james is overrated not carmelo first of all he isnt even the best player on his team wade is better and i dont see how he can be the best player in the leauge and choke in the finals like dat and secondly the knicks big three would be crazy the best point guard who nobody realizes it but would elevate amares play to probaly the best pf in the league thats what would make the knicks special and then carmelo could finish the games this isn't even a question

:crazy:

daleja424
10-06-2011, 11:44 AM
Miami still.

I think the talent is better with the Miami big 3 and I think the defensive mindset is major too.

Offensively, the Knicks would be more balanced...but Miami would still have the more impressive big 3.

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:47 AM
lol alright he probaly didnt say it but its been speculated and really where else is going to go i mean look at the teams that would be able to sign him in 2012 the clipppers the bobcats i mean seriously he wants to win a championship but thats only if the cba does not screw us

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:49 AM
an truthfully i dont even want chris paul if get him good but im good with getting back raymond felton and the best center we can afford

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:49 AM
hahahahaha, yeah if those 3 fall under the top 10. too bad 1 of them, maybe even 2, are not top 10. Amare is definitely not a top 10 player and dont get me wrong about Melo. hes a top scorer and probably the most rounded offensive player in the league, but his defense and the Knicks' defense as a whole will never be as good as Miami.

Miami's offense is only going to improve as they acquire more role players and now that the big 3 look like theyve got their chemistry together, they are also going to be dominant offensively. the only teams that will get past Miami are going to be great defensive teams. however, along with that defense, you need good offense as well to get past Miami. NY doesnt have that mix even if with CP3, and imo, thats a big if.

Neither Melo or Amare are top 10 because they only play on about 43% of each game..

42% on the court, making plays and scoring
8% on the bench cheering teammates
2% on the defensive side
48% Standing around on defense pretending to have their hands up

:laugh2: Sorry i couldnt help it. jk Knicks fans

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:50 AM
why is every body on lebrons d**k what has he done somebody please tell me 0 championships

hugepatsfan
10-06-2011, 11:52 AM
Lebron>CP3
Wade>Melo
Bosh>Amare

Pretty easily MIA IMO.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 11:52 AM
lol alright he probaly didnt say it but its been speculated and really where else is going to go i mean look at the teams that would be able to sign him in 2012 the clipppers the bobcats i mean seriously he wants to win a championship but thats only if the cba does not screw us

:facepalm:

da ThRONe
10-06-2011, 11:57 AM
CP3 is my favorite player, and I think he's the 2nd best player behind LeBron. With that said it's the Heat and not even close. The heat have 2 of the top 5 players. The Knicks only have 1 top 5(CP3) and 1 top 10 player(Melo).

Where is the defense going to come from with this team? Melo isn't consistently locking down the wing, same with Amare in the post. Chris has increased his on-ball defense, but it's still not elite.

I would make a case of a Paul/Howard pairing being better than a Paul/Anthony/Stoudamire big 3.

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:58 AM
nobody wants to say it but lebrons game just looks pretty yeah he can pass barely shoot his defense is overrated he plays with arguably the best perimeter defender in the league and all his coach does is coach defense so it just makes him look better im not saying hes not top 5 but come on him and wade was suppose to be jordan an pippen and couldn't even beat an old mavs team

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 11:59 AM
im just starting to believe that 95 percent of people on this forum live in south fl lol

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 12:00 PM
CP3 is my favorite player, and I think he's the 2nd best player behind LeBron. With that said it's the Heat and not even close. The heat have 2 of the top 5 players. The Knicks only have 1 top 5(CP3) and 1 top 10 player(Melo).

Where is the defense going to come from with this team? Melo isn't consistently locking down the wing, same with Amare in the post. Chris has increased his on-ball defense, but it's still not elite.

I would make a case of a Paul/Howard pairing being better than a Paul/Anthony/Stoudamire big 3.

Agreed. That is a duo for the ages

da ThRONe
10-06-2011, 12:01 PM
why is every body on lebrons d**k what has he done somebody please tell me 0 championships

I think we have really been brainwashed about sports by ESPN. Titles aren't the only thing. Only one team a year can win one. The idea that Dirk's career has been nothing until this season or that all LeBron's accomplishment to date are worthless is just ridiculous.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Agreed. Cp3 is the type of guy who would take a pay cut and he will get even more endorsements while playing in NY. And we don't know the cap situation until the new CBA comes out. However, as of now the Knicks have 3 guaranteed contracts on the books in 2012. Melo and Amare make up roughly 40 million dollars. Then they have Balkman who makes roughly a little over 1 million. However, if there's an amnesty clause, he would most likely be cut. That's it. No one else is guaranteed. Now if you take into consideration them keeping a few of their rookies and filling out the rest of their roster with minimum salary guys, there, probably, around 45 million, maybe a little less or a little more. If the cap was put at 60 milion, possible, with no hard cap, they might have enough to get a deal done.

He would take a pay cut, like LBJ did I'm sure. A 17 mil to like 14 mil paycut. Unfortunately the knicks look to have 14-18 million max in cap space, and that is before they need to sign 8 other players. So CP3's pay cut would have to be well under 10 mil for it to work.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 12:06 PM
lol alright he probaly didnt say it but its been speculated and really where else is going to go i mean look at the teams that would be able to sign him in 2012 the clipppers the bobcats i mean seriously he wants to win a championship but thats only if the cba does not screw us

Speculated by NY media sure. But according to them you guys had LBJ in the pocket too.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 12:07 PM
He would take a pay cut, like LBJ did I'm sure. A 17 mil to like 14 mil paycut. Unfortunately the knicks look to have 14-18 million max in cap space, and that is before they need to sign 8 other players. So CP3's pay cut would have to be well under 10 mil for it to work.

Cant they sign Paul first then just fill out the roster with MLE and Vet minimums? IDK how it works im just wondering

Sadds The Gr8
10-06-2011, 12:08 PM
too bad the Knicks aren't getting him.

JordansBulls
10-06-2011, 12:09 PM
Results are pretty close here as well.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650208

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 12:11 PM
what accomplishments does lebron really have he played in the east his whole career if he put up those numbers in the west then i would give him credit i never said he wasnt top 5 but to me he is like 4th or 5th best player in this league

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 12:11 PM
At a glance if everything remains the same:

Amare/Melo = 40 mill
9 players at vet min of a 3rd year player at 916,100 = 8,244,900

Cap of 58 mill - 48.3 = 9.7

That is what would be left over for CP3 if the Knicks got rid of Balkman and didn't sign any veterans with more than 3 years experience.

Seems like a pretty ugly situation when you look at it like that.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 12:13 PM
Cant they sign Paul first then just fill out the roster with MLE and Vet minimums? IDK how it works im just wondering

They wouldn't be able to use the MLE until the following year. A team must START the offseason over the cap to be eligible to use the MLE. If they were signing him outright then the MLE wouldn't be an option.

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 12:15 PM
what people don't get is you can always teach defense but you can't teach being clutch lebron just doesnt have that killer instinc

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 12:15 PM
what accomplishments does lebron really have he played in the east his whole career if he put up those numbers in the west then i would give him credit i never said he wasnt top 5 but to me he is like 4th or 5th best player in this league

I am convinced you are a Nets, Heat, or Bulls fan with a dupe account and you dont really believe what your saying, trying to draw heat towards Knicks fans cuz you enjoy it.. cuz really... nothing you have said in this thread makes sense. Lebron is #1.. even most Lakers fans have come to terms with it

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 12:17 PM
what people don't get is you can always teach defense but you can't teach being clutch lebron just doesnt have that killer instinc

Too bad you can't teach the desire to play defense.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 12:18 PM
They wouldn't be able to use the MLE until the following year. A team must START the offseason over the cap to be eligible to use the MLE. If they were signing him outright then the MLE wouldn't be an option.

Oh ok.. thanks for clearing that up for me. What about the Vets minimum? Are they allowed to sign Paul then go over the cap to fill out the roster with vets minimums?

da ThRONe
10-06-2011, 12:21 PM
duplicate

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 12:22 PM
lol ok but why is he number one the only real accomplishment he has had is taking a wack cleveland team to the finals in the watered down east this year doesnt count really either because the only team that could challenge them was chicago in the east

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 12:26 PM
you people obvisouly dont watch basketball this year kevin durant was better derrick rose was the mvp which means he should be number one an his own teammate d wade did better then him atleast d wade plays with heart that makes him 4 lol

flatbush knicks
10-06-2011, 12:27 PM
lol the nets suck i an i just moved from miami even down ther they will tell you d wades the heart of dat team

beasted86
10-06-2011, 12:42 PM
in all honesty, the writing is on the wall, and despite NBA attempts to prevent

a Billups, Fields, 2 first round picks, cash consideration and a player to be named later etc will bring Paul here based on the fact that chris paul isnt going to d around like Melo did to denver, Paul will tell the hornets, I am signing with the knicks , or I want to be traded there for value. I just feel it in my gut, theres no reason for him not to come here
What first round picks?

2017 & 2019? Because those are the first years the Knicks have picks to trade. Any trade chance they had at getting Paul are gone, free agency is their only option now.

Hornets have no incentive to trade Paul to NY for Billups who wouldn't resign, and Fields a bench player.

mjm07
10-06-2011, 12:47 PM
Miami's Big 3 is better than NY's. With or Without CP3.

rickshaw
10-06-2011, 12:51 PM
Neither Melo or Amare are top 10 because they only play on about 43% of each game..

42% on the court, making plays and scoring
8% on the bench cheering teammates
2% on the defensive side
48% Standing around on defense pretending to have their hands up

:laugh2: Sorry i couldnt help it. jk Knicks fans

thats 44%

knickfan4life
10-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Yes, the heat played defense last year and the knicks did not. The heat also had all 3 players last year and the knicks didnt. The knicks dont need CP3... we have chauncey billups who sure as hell does play D...

the knicks need to play D... which seems like the plan or else, why would they hire a defensive coach as an assistant?

for this threads purposes...

IF the knicks sign CP3... CP3, Melo and Amare make a better BIG 3 than Wade, Lebron and Bosh for the simple fact that... they have a floor general, a wing and a big in their big 3 while the heat have lebron and wade who both play a similar style of ball and a soft big, who is really not that good a player, top 25 would be someone being nice when they speak of bosh.

we all know basketball is not a 3 on 3 game and because the heat's big 3 have been together longer and got steals in haslems resigning for almost nothing and already having mike miller, they are miles ahead of NY, who have yet to even get CP3, so

for this thread: CP3, Melo and Amare are a better big 3 than Lebron, Wade and Bosh

in the NBA: the heat would be the better team.

But at the end of the day, I think with defense and the right pieces, NY can take them, because down low, the heat have NOTHING and Amare is a beast come playoff time. dont use this year in your arguments please, he was hurt... you can use previous years in your arguments.

Jtatstarranch
10-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Anthony and Stoudamire don't pass. That's why they lose.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 12:55 PM
thats 44%

Yea i fail :facepalm:

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 01:02 PM
Give me the three that play D.

No defense will be able to stop that attack though. Especially if D'antoni is somehow still on board.

Byronicle
10-06-2011, 01:09 PM
definitely the knicks, they all complement each other much better passer/scorer/lowpost

whereas the heat playmaker/playmaker/softbig

Swashcuff
10-06-2011, 01:10 PM
No defense will be able to stop that attack though. Especially if D'antoni is somehow still on board.

When it comes to playoff time it will be a totally different story however.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 01:11 PM
No defense will be able to stop that attack though. Especially if D'antoni is somehow still on board.

This has been the thought of many a team going into the playoffs only to find out it's a completely different game in the post season.

Also to the poster who said that Wade and Lebron's style of play is the same - what about Melo and Amare? Just because Amare is a big doesn't change the fact that he is still an iso player who needs the ball in his hands to be effective just like Melo.

Punk
10-06-2011, 01:13 PM
Lol At these posts. Melo IS a top 10 player. Get out of here with that crap. If you are 2nd behind Kobe in clutch shots, you aren't some johnny come lately.

Yes, they would have a better big 3. You all have no idea what basketball is. AT ALL. Miami is 3 guys that joined trying to win 72 games and failed at it. Both 3 guys need the ball.

The Knicks would have a better team because Paul can pick and roll with Amare, he can become a pass first guard without a need to score. When teams take away the pick and roll, Melo can get his shots. When they double Melo, Amare will get his shots. When teams cover Paul, Melo and Amare can pick and roll.

That's an unguardable team.

Miami has been proved to be guardable.

HuRRiCaNeS324
10-06-2011, 01:21 PM
In reality its not even close...

HuRRiCaNeS324
10-06-2011, 01:23 PM
NY fans are delusional lol. Poll is ridiculous

NYman15
10-06-2011, 01:23 PM
I'e gotta say I think Melo has a bad rep. He is a decent defender. Not great, not like Lebron, but not horrible. It seems whenever a player gets a bad rep like he's a horrible defender, he can never change peoples minds. In his time in NY, he played very solid D. He's not great, but he played decent from the time he got there through the playoffs. He has the tools to be a great defender now he just has to be motivated. Now, I'm a Knicks fan so I might be biased, but I will also tell you Amare is not a good defender. He just really doesn't seem to know how to play defense. He's a good help defender, but he has trouble guarding his own man. But I don't believe Melo is a bad defender and Cp3 is a great defender by the way.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 01:39 PM
At a glance if everything remains the same:

Amare/Melo = 40 mill
9 players at vet min of a 3rd year player at 916,100 = 8,244,900

Cap of 58 mill - 48.3 = 9.7

That is what would be left over for CP3 if the Knicks got rid of Balkman and didn't sign any veterans with more than 3 years experience.

Seems like a pretty ugly situation when you look at it like that.

Good stuff. This post should be read by a lot of these guys posting in here. Knicks won't be able to get rid of balkman unless they can dump him on a team with cap space to absorb his contract, otherwise they have to take back a contract. So most likely its about 1 million less than the 9.7. And finding a team of 8 minimum level players with 3 years or less experience means you are getting absolute garbage. Guys that basically were drafted but didn't have their very cheap options picked up.

Also, that is a 58 mil cap. We'll see how that goes with these negotiations, my guess is it drops slightly.

RZZZA
10-06-2011, 01:42 PM
can't Melo and Amare renegotiate their contracts to clear a few mil up for Chris though? I guess it just depends on how badly they want him

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Good stuff. This post should be read by a lot of these guys posting in here. Knicks won't be able to get rid of balkman unless they can dump him on a team with cap space to absorb his contract, otherwise they have to take back a contract. So most likely its about 1 million less than the 9.7. And finding a team of 8 minimum level players with 3 years or less experience means you are getting absolute garbage. Guys that basically were drafted but didn't have their very cheap options picked up.

Also, that is a 58 mil cap. We'll see how that goes with these negotiations, my guess is it drops slightly.

DAMN! So wtf is this thread open? Why do people actually think CP3 to NY is a possibility?

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 01:45 PM
can't Melo and Amare renegotiate their contracts to clear a few mil up for Chris though? I guess it just depends on how badly they want him

Thats what i was wondering.. but i think i read that players cant restructure their contracts till their third year in the contract or something like that. I might be wrong

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2011, 01:47 PM
DAMN! So wtf is this thread open? Why do people actually think CP3 to NY is a possibility?

I was just treating it more as a hypothetical situation. I mean its not 100% impossible, CP3 could sign for only a few mil I guess. But that's not happening.

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Could somebody answer RZZA's question with certainty? Cuz im wondering about that too. you would think if it were possible more veterans would do it like BOS

airronijordan
10-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Miami would have the better trio but NY would have better team chemistry

And for all those wondering how is it possible for NY to sign CP3?....Ian O'Connor reported a couple of months ago on his radio show that CP3 will join NY for less than max money....I believe he said he got that info by talking with CP3's camp

nycericanguy
10-06-2011, 02:12 PM
At a glance if everything remains the same:

Amare/Melo = 40 mill
9 players at vet min of a 3rd year player at 916,100 = 8,244,900

Cap of 58 mill - 48.3 = 9.7

That is what would be left over for CP3 if the Knicks got rid of Balkman and didn't sign any veterans with more than 3 years experience.

Seems like a pretty ugly situation when you look at it like that.

That doesn't make any sense, the vet min does not count against the cap, you can sign CP3 and then sign as many vet min guys as you want. NOW, there would be "ghost" roster spots taken up, but they wouldn't add up to anywhere near $8.2m.

NY will have a large amount of cap space if CP3 wants to come. not worth getting into exactly how much since we don't know the new CBA, but your figures and logic are completely wrong.

nycericanguy
10-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Could somebody answer RZZA's question with certainty? Cuz im wondering about that too. you would think if it were possible more veterans would do it like BOS

no they cannot renegotiate.

Da Knicks
10-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Im guessing your the Knick version of DoMeFavors?

why dont you just curse this guy instead....lol, As far as the question i will say Paul has stated that he never does anything with money being the reason behind it. He said he wants to win and he wants to win now. In 2012 even if the cap goes down so will the max salaries as well, saying that Melo and Stat will be the only players signed through that besides Balkmans small contract. Cp3 would make the knicks so dangerous with his passing and also with his leadership on defense. People who keep on saying Melo is not a good defender did not see him play for the knicks. Knick fans are really quick to judge our own players and most of us where shocked at how good Melos defense really was.

Melos team d needs some fine tuning and stat needs to learn how to play better one on one d. We need a center in the worst ways who can just defend the rim and let stat play pf. With Paul i can see the knicks beating Miami in a series since the knicks would be able to slow the game down with Melo and make miami shoot jumpers that Wade and James have yet to develop. Paul at times is the best player in the nba giving him weapons could be scary!:speechless:

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 02:21 PM
When it comes to playoff time it will be a totally different story however.


This has been the thought of many a team going into the playoffs only to find out it's a completely different game in the post season.

Tell that to the Suns who found themselves one bad break away from the finals a couple times. In any case, Chris Paul is a good defender and when the season is on the line, you'd be a fool to think 'Melo won't step up his D - he is totally capable. My mouth is watering imagining the 'Melo/James tit-for-tat matchups.

But what it comes down to is the Knicks desperately need a big man who can cover the paint. Amar'e is the definition of matador D.

Given, a lot of chips have to fall in place for any of this to happen; but if those chips fall, the Knicks are going to be putting up 110+ every night whether its the playoffs or not.

Sidenote: it wasn't the playoffs or anything, but note that in the two Knick wins against the big 3, Knicks were able to effectively play to the Heats slow pace. When Chris Paul comes into the convo, the Heat will have to play to our pace. This will be a rude awakening for the Heat who get their wins while being in the bottom ten (league wide) in possessions per game.

nycericanguy
10-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Good stuff. This post should be read by a lot of these guys posting in here. Knicks won't be able to get rid of balkman unless they can dump him on a team with cap space to absorb his contract, otherwise they have to take back a contract. So most likely its about 1 million less than the 9.7. And finding a team of 8 minimum level players with 3 years or less experience means you are getting absolute garbage. Guys that basically were drafted but didn't have their very cheap options picked up.

Also, that is a 58 mil cap. We'll see how that goes with these negotiations, my guess is it drops slightly.

those numbers are completely wrong as vet min players do not count against the cap.

also the owners already proposed a "flex-cap" that would go up to at least $65m, and the hard cap is no longer an issue, so I'm not sure where this info about the cap going down is coming from either.

lastly Balkman will be extremely easy to get rid of, his contract is only 1.6m so NY can just trade him to a team for a future 2nd rounder and send them the maximum $3m allowed to cover his salary AND give them extra money.

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 02:30 PM
Lol At these posts. Melo IS a top 10 player. Get out of here with that crap. If you are 2nd behind Kobe in clutch shots, you aren't some johnny come lately.


i agree that the Knicks would be ungaurdable. But your Kobe/'Melo reference is uninformed and irrelevant. 'Melo is ahead of Bryant in clutch shots unless you're going by career totals. (why would you?)

Also, it is highly debatable that 'Melo is not a top ten player. In fact, some of the best posters on this website would leave him out of their top ten.

I, being a diehard Knick fan (like yourself) fit 'Melo into my top ten. Its homerism at its finest. At least I am aware of that instead of attacking non-partial poster's intelligence.

RevisIsland
10-06-2011, 02:44 PM
The Heat would have more talent, but the Knicks would be more balanced.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-06-2011, 02:44 PM
Knicks just because I believe their games mesh a hell of a lot better than the heats

nycericanguy
10-06-2011, 02:51 PM
as far as the question i think MIA would obviously still have the more talented big 3, but Wade & Lebron will never be an ideal combo so NY's might be a better "team" and better balanced. CP3 has never played with a great player like Melo or Amare, let alone BOTH. He would be free to be the best playmaker in the NBA and not have to score as much.

uprightciti
10-06-2011, 02:55 PM
knicks would smoke the heat

if they get cp3 which i believe they will, they would have a perfect machine

and if this kid iman plays it up on D and woodson gets these dudes to play more D

all teams will fear the garden

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 02:59 PM
Gotta love those Knicks fans, am i right?

gotoHcarolina52
10-06-2011, 03:01 PM
The Heat would have more talent, but the Knicks would be more balanced.

This.

But when it comes down to head-to-head, I'd rather have the HEAT's defense than the Knicks' offense.

Da Knicks
10-06-2011, 03:03 PM
Gotta love those Knicks fans, am i right?

lmao let us have some fun, its the lockout and nothing else is going on.:D

hgtiger32
10-06-2011, 03:05 PM
how many times is this thread going to pop up on here?

D-Leethal
10-06-2011, 03:07 PM
It will be one hell of a matchup in the playoffs. Will truly put a test to the 'offense vs defense' debate......a Mike D'Antoni team with a prime CP3 at the helm and prime Melo + Amare as his running mates might be the best offensive team to ever grace the hard wood against the high octane pressure defense of the Heat??? :drool:

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 03:08 PM
That doesn't make any sense, the vet min does not count against the cap, you can sign CP3 and then sign as many vet min guys as you want. NOW, there would be "ghost" roster spots taken up, but they wouldn't add up to anywhere near $8.2m.

NY will have a large amount of cap space if CP3 wants to come. not worth getting into exactly how much since we don't know the new CBA, but your figures and logic are completely wrong.

You are right. The "ghost" spots would have a cap hold equal to the rookie min - around 490,180 X 8 = around 3.9

We forgot about Shumpert though - I am assuming that he will be on the roster @ 1.3


In total the Knicks would have around 13 to offer Paul assuming the cap is the same. Seems a like a little better - but still pretty ugly. Those four with only vet mins to be offered.

Dankster
10-06-2011, 03:11 PM
Who knows...for all the chemistry issues the Heat had in their first year together, they still managed to play 6 games in the finals. That's definitely nothing to scoff at. I agree the Knicks would be more balanced as Wade and Lebron play basically the same position. I think it all depends on the inside presence of both teams; personally now I'd take Joel Anthony over any center on the Knicks' roster.

Obviously I'd love to have Paul in NY, but if NO could land him for Westbrook straight up, they would be immediate title contenders and have a much better nucleus (CP3, KD, Ibaka, Harden, Collison) than NY does. I love my Knicks but it's the truth.

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 03:16 PM
lmao let us have some fun, its the lockout and nothing else is going on.:D
I know man. I'm busting my own chops. :laugh2:

It will be one hell of a matchup in the playoffs. Will truly put a test to the 'offense vs defense' debate......a Mike D'Antoni team with a prime CP3 at the helm and prime Melo + Amare as his running mates might be the best offensive team to ever grace the hard wood against the high octane pressure defense of the Heat??? :drool:

:drool: And thats really what people should be taking away from this debate.

Swashcuff
10-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Tell that to the Suns who found themselves one bad break away from the finals a couple times.

Well as much as I love CP3 I can't say for certain that he'd have the same effect in NY that Steve Nash had/has in NO when it comes to running the offense. Also are you guys going to be content with just making the ECF and losing? The Heat trio made it to the finals in their first year together. I'd think you'd want to do that if not better within their first 3 years together.


In any case, Chris Paul is a good defender and when the season is on the line, you'd be a fool to think 'Melo won't step up his D - he is totally capable.

Chris Paul is a boss defender. However how important is his D if he isn't going to make a huge difference as a F or C.


My mouth is watering imagining the 'Melo/James tit-for-tat matchups.

The NBA is in dire need of a real rivalry for that reason I would like to see CP3 go NY. Maybe that can spark a REAL rivalry between the Heat/Knicks.


But what it comes down to is the Knicks desperately need a big man who can cover the paint. Amar'e is the definition of matador D.

They need Amar'e to play against PFs more. Playing against Cs doesn't do him any good defensively. However the possibility of getting that C in which you guys so desperately need and CP3 well it's slim to none.


Given, a lot of chips have to fall in place for any of this to happen; but if those chips fall, the Knicks are going to be putting up 110+ every night whether its the playoffs or not.

The Nuggets were doing the same (albeit much deeper but less talented) I don't think scoring a bunch of points is going to get it done come post season against the elite teams if they're giving them back up.


Sidenote: it wasn't the playoffs or anything, but note that in the two Knick wins against the big 3, Knicks were able to effectively play to the Heats slow pace. When Chris Paul comes into the convo, the Heat will have to play to our pace. This will be a rude awakening for the Heat who get their wins while being in the bottom ten (league wide) in possessions per game.

Agreed. However, during the course of the regular season the Heat weren't at full strength nor were they playing at the level in which they did as the season progressed. They gelled better in the post season than they did in the regular season and we really saw their bring it all together in terms of chemistry.

I'd expect to see a much better Heat team next season not only because of the possible additions but also the fact that they have grown together as a unit. Would that off set a possible addition of CP3 by the Knicks? I don't think so but I don't think the Heat will be the same team that they were last season.

Punk
10-06-2011, 03:29 PM
This.

But when it comes down to head-to-head, I'd rather have the HEAT's defense than the Knicks' offense.

Really?

Because Chicago and Miami had the best defense and who won the chip? The Mavs, the offensive team.

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 03:32 PM
Well as much as I love CP3 I can't say for certain that he'd have the same effect in NY that Steve Nash had/has in NO when it comes to running the offense. Also are you guys going to be content with just making the ECF and losing? The Heat trio made it to the finals in their first year together. I'd think you'd want to do that if not better within their first 3 years together.

Yes i do think CP3 would have the same effect if not better. Essentially, what we would have is the same Phoenix core only with Chris Paul in place of Nash and 'Melo in place of Marion/Johnson (take your pick). Amar'e would be right back to his Phoenix form. All that needs to be done at that point would be to space out the floor with bargain shooters (not hard to do).

No we wouldn't be content with making the ECF and losing? i don't actually see the relevance of that question. Phoenix wasn't content with that, and if it weren't for a "bad break" or two they would've been right there in the finals. My point is playing the run-n-gun and ranking middle of the pack in defense, they were a legitimate threat for the title.


I agree with all the rest of your post. Knicks need to get lucky in the center department. Otherwise its gonna be a long haul of mediocrity with Shawn Williams/Jared Jeffries doing the best they can at that position.

SteBO
10-06-2011, 03:33 PM
Really?

Because Chicago and Miami had the best defense and who won the chip? The Mavs, the offensive team.
The Mavs played defense last year, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

mjm07
10-06-2011, 03:42 PM
Really?

Because Chicago and Miami had the best defense and who won the chip? The Mavs, the offensive team who were very solid defensively aswell.

I finished the sentence for you. Welcome ;)

Pls do not compare the Knicks current/potential squad to the 2011 Champion Mavs. The squads are not even close.

A better comparison would be the Suns with Amare and Nash. Whom, almost went to the Finals a cple times.

Getting CP3 would make the Knicks a more balanced team offensively. No doubt. The Heat will still beat the Knicks in any 7 game series if both teams are at full strength. Heat are good(potential better) offensively, elite defensively.

Knicks are making strides to be better defensively w/ the addition of woodson and drafting the Schrumpert(however you spell it) kid, but he is a rookie. Can't remember ANY rookie clamping down a top 5 player EVER. Let alone in a 7 gm series.

Bottom line, the Heat are more prepared to win a 'ship than the Knicks right now atleast.

JOSKOMANG4
10-06-2011, 03:45 PM
Building around a team is essential.

For the Heat, its..

C- E.Curry(rejuvinated)
PF- Bosh
SF- James
SG- Wade
PG- Chalmers

vs

C- S.Dalembart
PF- Amare
SF- Anthony
SG- Fields
PG- CP3

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 03:46 PM
I finished the sentence for you. Welcome ;)

Pls do not compare the Knicks current/potential squad to the 2011 Champion Mavs. The squads are not even close.

A better comparison would be the Suns with Amare and Nash. They almost went to the Finals a cple times.

Getting CP3 would make the Knicks a more balanced team offensively. No doubt. The Heat will still beat the Knicks in any 7 game series if both teams are at full strength. Heat are good(potential better) offensively, elite defensively.

Knicks are making strides to be better defensively w/ the addition of woodson and drafting the Schrumpert(however you spell it) but he is a rookie. Can't remember ANY rookie clamping down a top 5 player EVER. Let alone in a 7 gm series.

Bottom line, the Heat are more prepared to win a 'ship than the Knicks right now atleast.

Coutney Lee vs Kobe Bryant 2009 NBA Finals

Magic still lost but the rook defended Kobe very well

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 03:48 PM
Building around a team is essential.

For the Heat, its..

C- E.Curry(rejuvinated)
PF- Bosh
SF- James
SG- Wade
PG- Chalmers

vs

C- S.Dalembart
PF- Amare
SF- Anthony
SG- Fields
PG- CP3

So you figure Dalembert will sign for the vet min in NY as opposed to the MLE in Miami(which is only a hop, skip and a jump from his homeland of Haiti)?

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 03:48 PM
Building around a team is essential.

For the Heat, its..

C- E.Curry(rejuvinated)
PF- Bosh
SF- James
SG- Wade
PG- Chalmers

vs

C- S.Dalembart
PF- Amare
SF- Anthony
SG- Fields
PG- CP3

If you have Paul how can you afford Dalembart?

Chill_Will_24
10-06-2011, 03:50 PM
So you figure Dalembert will sign for the vet min in NY as opposed to the MLE in Miami(which is only a hop, skip and a jump from his homeland of Haiti)?

What does that have to do with anything? Newark NJ has the highest population of Brazilians.. you think Nene will go running of to the Nets just cuz of that?

mjm07
10-06-2011, 03:52 PM
Coutney Lee vs Kobe Bryant 2009 NBA Finals

Magic still lost but the rook defended Kobe very well

hhmmm gotta check that out. Don't remember that series to be quite honest.

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 03:53 PM
What does that have to do with anything? Newark NJ has the highest population of Brazilians.. you think Nene will go running of to the Nets just cuz of that?

With all else being equal - a human being is more likely to put themselves in position to be close to home.

Dalembert is heavily involved with the rebuilding/improvements in Haiti and being that close is definitely a checkmark in the pluses category for Miami.

Nyc4You
10-06-2011, 04:00 PM
Okay first off, melo lost weight and has been working on his conditioning all summer long. Second, Once mike realizes that he can pick and roll with melo and amare.... cant imagine the match up problems. Third, people don't realize we signed mike woodson (piston's Defensive coach in 04) who is gonna change our defense significantly. I can guarantee you amare will play much better defense. Amare admitted that the only defense he learned was from alvin gentry . anyways cp3 is what the knicks need but there are other cheap options, ala ramon sessions.

nycsports2
10-06-2011, 04:08 PM
Amare aint top ten

lol... i should sig this

meloman1592
10-06-2011, 04:09 PM
I understand the cp3 to the knicks is unlikely but its obvious there's A LOT of knick haters in this thread. People don't realize that even if we don't get cp we have enough cap room to sign multiple solid players to positions of need. And btw, if you honestly believe melo isn't top 10, go set yourself on fire.

nycsports2
10-06-2011, 04:10 PM
If you have Paul how can you afford Dalembart?

hisc cousin told me hed take a discount for NY #insiderinfo : D

nycsports2
10-06-2011, 04:11 PM
I understand the cp3 to the knicks is unlikely but its obvious there's A LOT of knick haters in this thread. People don't realize that even if we don't get cp we have enough cap room to sign multiple solid players to positions of need. And btw, if you honestly believe melo isn't top 10, go set yourself on fire.

honestly dont even want cp3 i just want solid role players and a real Center.... wish we had chandler and gallo lol

RZZZA
10-06-2011, 04:17 PM
Really?

Because Chicago and Miami had the best defense and who won the chip? The Mavs, the offensive team.


The Mavs played defense last year, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

I think if last year proved anything, it's that you need a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense in this league.

RZZZA
10-06-2011, 04:19 PM
I understand the cp3 to the knicks is unlikely but its obvious there's A LOT of knick haters in this thread. People don't realize that even if we don't get cp we have enough cap room to sign multiple solid players to positions of need. And btw, if you honestly believe melo isn't top 10, go set yourself on fire.

PSD voted him in as a fringe top 10 player. So if someone has him at number 9, and another person has him at number 10, and someone else has him at number 11...thats not a big deal, is it?

Knicks21
10-06-2011, 04:52 PM
lol... i should sig this

It's true, he is in the 11-13 range.

NYman15
10-06-2011, 05:15 PM
I just want to point out just like 2010 for the Knicks they can go into the 2012 offseason with cap room to improve their team drastically. It doesn't have to be a superstar. If they could get a legit center along with a good PG, unless Billups comes back and add some depth, they would be a team to be reckon with.

TheNumber37
10-06-2011, 05:15 PM
Knicks would have the better shooting and the more clutch players. Knicks would win most of the games if they were close. The knicks don't really have a guy to match wade, but the heat don't have a guy to match paul. Paul, unlike rose would be 3rd option on offense, is a better shooter, passer, leader, defender. He also makes his teammates better which is scary when he plays with melo and amare. Remember what nash did for amare and what Billusp did for melo. And remember that Paul is better than both of em.

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 05:19 PM
Coutney Lee vs Kobe Bryant 2009 NBA Finals

Magic still lost but the rook defended Kobe very well

I know almost nothing about Iman Shumpert, but i know what you're talking about. From what i remember Kobe had a very mediocre finals that year.

Kashmir13579
10-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Amar'e AND 'Melo are both fringe top 10 players. You guys can argue about it all you want but i'm fine with them ranking anywhere from 8-14. "Knick haters" blah blah blah. I wouldn't call anyone a hater for ranking 'Melo and Amar'e 12 and 13 respectively. There are A LOT of great players in the NBA right now, so it isn't exactly an insult to be ranked just outside the top 10.

knicks=love
10-06-2011, 05:30 PM
I just look at it as
Wade over CP3
Lebron over Melo
Amare over Bosh

lebron and melo "realistically" play the same position and then so do amar'e and bosh. wade is more of a SG and CP3 is strictly a PG, so these comparisons don't match up as you think they do.. well the wade-cp3 one doesn't at least


Amar'e AND 'Melo are both fringe top 10 players. You guys can argue about it all you want but i'm fine with them ranking anywhere from 8-14. "Knick haters" blah blah blah. I wouldn't call anyone a hater for ranking 'Melo and Amar'e 12 and 13 respectively. There are A LOT of great players in the NBA right now, so it isn't exactly an insult to be ranked just outside the top 10.

exactly :clap:

imagesrdecievin
10-06-2011, 05:54 PM
Amar'e AND 'Melo are both fringe top 10 players. You guys can argue about it all you want but i'm fine with them ranking anywhere from 8-14. "Knick haters" blah blah blah. I wouldn't call anyone a hater for ranking 'Melo and Amar'e 12 and 13 respectively. There are A LOT of great players in the NBA right now, so it isn't exactly an insult to be ranked just outside the top 10.

Agreed.

29$JerZ
10-06-2011, 06:00 PM
Miami would still be better than NY with Paul but the Gap would be much smaller than it is now.

Knicks need to actually have a Center and some shooters around Melo/Amar'e before we can begin judging them.

Tony_Starks
10-06-2011, 06:02 PM
Is this CP3 to New York fantasy gonna basically be the Lebron delusion all over again?.... I really hope not, especially since they actually have a decent team now. Why not just enjoy it instead of salivating over other teams best players?

nycericanguy
10-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Is this CP3 to New York fantasy gonna basically be the Lebron delusion all over again?.... I really hope not, especially since they actually have a decent team now. Why not just enjoy it instead of salivating over other teams best players?

nah, I think it would be great if CP3 came here, and IMO all signs point to him coming, but if he doesn't NY will have a ton of money to resign all their own guys and sign 2 or 3 role players. So its a win-win. NY will be very formidable come 2012.

HouRealCoach
10-06-2011, 06:35 PM
Dwight would make it closer