PDA

View Full Version : PSD's Official #1 NBA player of the 00-10 decade



PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:36 PM
From the 1999-2000 season to the 2009-2010 season who do you guys think was the #1 NBA player of the 2000s decade?

I have seen a lot of all-time lists threads so I decided to make my own.

Same rules applies to what JordanBulls had in his PSD's Official rankings of NBA Players of All Time.

Copied and paste from JB's rules....


RULES:
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.
NO POSTING in your FORUM, VOTE for this GUY. We had problems last time with it and NO POSTING in someone Else's Forum to VOTE for a certain player.


Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.


So we're going to do a top 10 players of the 2000s decade on PSD and maybe even further if the lockout is effect just to create good discussion. It's pretty simple, you just vote for who you think is the #1 player of all time, with a short explanation of why. And then in a few days, we will start the Official #2 Player of the 2000s decade Thread. And so on, until we get to 10 players. We can do top 50 or top 100 all time if you like.


So while this thread will be a poll, you vote for one player and then Nominate someone who is not on the list that way as the guys in the original list are selected we know who to add on the subsequent list.

KnicksorBust
10-01-2011, 10:39 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Shaquille O'Neal

ManRam
10-01-2011, 10:42 PM
The lockout needs to end...

It's between Duncan and Shaq for me. Kobe a very close #3.


EDIT: if it's just this decade, Kobe might be ahead of Shaq due to longevity.

Korman12
10-01-2011, 10:43 PM
Very close between Shaq and Duncan. Either answer would be fine.

KnicksorBust
10-01-2011, 10:43 PM
Shaq's last half of the decade was too weak for me to put him #1.

Swashcuff
10-01-2011, 10:43 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Shaquille O'Neal

:nod: I'm debating a bit between Kobe and Shaq but TD is certainly #1 for me.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:43 PM
The lockout needs to end...

It's between Duncan and Shaq for me. Kobe a very close #3.


EDIT: if it's just this decade, Kobe might be ahead of Shaq due to longevity.
We are just reviewing the dominance of the decade, not all-time dominance. I voted Kobe for that very reason.

Cal827
10-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Duncan or Kobe for me... Shaq was one of the greatest players ever, but his game fell off quite badly towards the end of the decade..I'll go with Kobe by a hair.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:52 PM
lol I can't believe I forgot about putting Wade in the poll, oh well Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq will get all the votes anyways, and maybe LeBron by his die-hard fans.

Swashcuff
10-01-2011, 10:52 PM
We are just reviewing the dominance of the decade, not all-time dominance. I voted Kobe for that very reason.

What about TD? 2 MVPs, 2 FMVPs, played in every All Star Game, made a ALL NBA and All Defensive Team every year, 3 titles as his team's best player, Top 10 in PER every season (top 6 in every season but 1), same goes for TRB%, DRTG and WS/48.

No other player can boast of such dominance over the time span in which you are comparing. I also left out a whole lot more but for now those are the key aspects.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:57 PM
Right X-Factor, because Kobe is not close to that at all....

Kobe, 5 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 1 MVP from the span of 99-10.
Duncan had 3 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 2 MVPs from the span of 99-10

I know Kobe got 3 rings as a sidekick but those rings actually hold meaning to me. Otherwise we mind as well throw away Kareem and Magic's rings when they were the 2nd banana to each other.


played in every All Star Game, made a ALL NBA and All Defensive Team every year, 3 titles as his team's best player,
Kobe played every all-star game too. Only season he missed the all-defensive team was in '04-'05 when he was injured for the most part in that season. Not to mention Phil Jackson left and a bunch of other issues.



Top 10 in PER every season (top 6 in every season but 1), same goes for TRB%, DRTG and WS/48.
Garbage, give me something relevant.


Duncan has an argument, definitely. I lean with Kobe though. Not to mention the ***-kicking Kobe always handed to the Spurs.

MackShock
10-01-2011, 10:59 PM
i hate to say it as a Warriors fan...but Kobe..Duncan is also in the conversation

Swashcuff
10-01-2011, 11:03 PM
Right X-Factor, because Kobe is not close to that at all....

Kobe, 5 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 1 MVP from the span of 99-10.
Duncan had 3 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 2 MVPs from the span of 99-10

How many seasons was Kobe the best player in the NBA?


I know Kobe got 3 rings as a sidekick but those rings actually hold meaning to me. Otherwise we mind as well throw away Kareem and Magic's rings when they were the 2nd banana to each other.

Kobe played every all-star game too. Only season he missed the all-defensive team was in '04-'05 when he was injured for the most part in that season. Not to mention Phil Jackson left and a bunch of other issues.

Did Kobe win all of the ALL NBA nods?


Garbage, give me something relevant.


Duncan has an argument, definitely. I lean with Kobe though. Not to mention the ***-kicking Kobe always handed to the Spurs.

So advanced #s are irrelevant?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:07 PM
How many seasons was Kobe the best player in the NBA?
At least three times.

Best player from each season

99-00 - Shaq
00-01 - Shaq
01-02 - Shaq
02-03 - Duncan
03-04 - Garnett
04-05 - Duncan
05-06 - Wade, arguably Kobe
06-07 - Duncan, arguably Kobe
07-08 - Kobe
08-09 - Kobe, arguably LeBron
09-10 - Kobe, arguably LeBron or Wade

Kobe only had one season as the clear cut best in the league. He has many others where he was debatable. At least three of them he was the best.

If you value winning like me, he was the best from 07-08 to 09-10

If you value production, he was the best from 05-06 to 07-08.

At least three.


Did Kobe win all of the ALL NBA nods?
In the first team? No but he was always on the all-nba teams, whether it was first, second, or third.

Duncan wasn't always on the first team either.


So advanced #s are irrelevant?
Talk about it with your X-Factor account.

Swashcuff
10-01-2011, 11:11 PM
At least three times.

Best player from each season

99-00 - Shaq
00-01 - Shaq
01-02 - Shaq
02-03 - Duncan
03-04 - Garnett
04-05 - Duncan
05-06 - Wade, arguably Kobe
06-07 - Duncan, arguably Kobe
07-08 - Kobe
08-09 - Kobe, arguably LeBron
09-10 - Kobe, arguably LeBron or Wade

Kobe only had one season as the clear cut best in the league. He has many others where he was debatable. At least three of them he was the best.

If you value winning like me, he was the best from 07-08 to 09-10

If you value production, he was the best from 05-06 to 07-08.

At least three.


In the first team? No but he was always on the all-nba teams, whether it was first, second, or third.

Duncan wasn't always on the first team either.

Talk about it with your X-Factor account.

Know what I'm not even going to both with you because I think this will just turn into a LeBron vs Wade vs Kobe discussion.

Hangtime
10-01-2011, 11:11 PM
There is no doubt in my mind this argument is between Kobe and Duncan if we are talking the span of the last decade. Kobe immediately had an impact from year one (99-00). Forming one of the league's greatest tandems. 3 straight champs and then ended the decade with 3 finals appearances and ships. Duncan started to fade a little in last few years. I give Kobe the slightest of edges here.

Korman12
10-01-2011, 11:12 PM
Right X-Factor, because Kobe is not close to that at all....

Kobe, 5 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 1 MVP from the span of 99-10.
Duncan had 3 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 2 MVPs from the span of 99-10

I know Kobe got 3 rings as a sidekick but those rings actually hold meaning to me. Otherwise we mind as well throw away Kareem and Magic's rings when they were the 2nd banana to each other.

Kobe played every all-star game too. Only season he missed the all-defensive team was in '04-'05 when he was injured for the most part in that season. Not to mention Phil Jackson left and a bunch of other issues.


Garbage, give me something relevant.


Duncan has an argument, definitely. I lean with Kobe though. Not to mention the ***-kicking Kobe always handed to the Spurs.

You can't just dismiss stats because they don't go along with the familiar mold.

Should be added that while Kobe made those all-defensive teams, he clearly didn't deserve to make all of them, especially last season. Here (http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/).

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:13 PM
There is no doubt in my mind this argument is between Kobe and Duncan if we are talking the span of the last decade. Kobe immediately had an impact from year one (99-00). Forming one of the league's greatest tandems. 3 straight champs and then ended the decade with 3 finals appearances and ships. Duncan started to fade a little in last few years. I give Kobe the slightest of edges here.

i hate to say it as a Warriors fan...but Kobe..Duncan is also in the conversation



Don't forget to cast your vote otherwise it won't count.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:14 PM
You can't just dismiss stats because they don't go along with the familiar mold.

Should be added that while Kobe made those all-defensive teams, he clearly didn't deserve to make all of them, especially last season. Here (http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/).
Right....so because one random dude on the Internet who uses a bunch of stats says so I should believe him. :rolleyes:

How about I write an article talking about how Adam Morrison is the GOAT and then you can reference that when someone is arguing Michael Jordan vs. Adam Morrison?

KnicksorBust
10-01-2011, 11:14 PM
Right X-Factor, because Kobe is not close to that at all....

Kobe, 5 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 1 MVP from the span of 99-10.
Duncan had 3 rings, 2 finals MVPs, and 2 MVPs from the span of 99-10

I know Kobe got 3 rings as a sidekick but those rings actually hold meaning to me. Otherwise we mind as well throw away Kareem and Magic's rings when they were the 2nd banana to each other.

Kobe played every all-star game too. Only season he missed the all-defensive team was in '04-'05 when he was injured for the most part in that season. Not to mention Phil Jackson left and a bunch of other issues.


Garbage, give me something relevant.


Duncan has an argument, definitely. I lean with Kobe though. Not to mention the ***-kicking Kobe always handed to the Spurs.

I gotta say you really seem to know your stuff of what I've seen from you so far. I don't even really mind your attitude. However, if you think PER is garbage then you are missing an important piece of the puzzle.

el_primo_nano
10-01-2011, 11:18 PM
5 rings, two different cycles. I say Kobe

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:18 PM
I gotta say you really seem to know your stuff of what I've seen from you so far. I don't even really mind your attitude. However, if you think PER is garbage then you are missing an important piece of the puzzle.
I don't use PER. If we didn't use PER from the 90s and before to determine who was the best, why the hell should we start now? These pointless advanced statistics are the very reason why players such as Allen Iverson and Bill Russell get underrated in modern day.

KnicksorBust
10-01-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't use PER. If we didn't use PER from the 90s and before to determine who was the best, why the hell should we start now? These pointless advanced statistics are the very reason why players such as Allen Iverson and Bill Russell get underrated in modern day.

Because we're human? I'm not impressed with the whole "we didn't do it in the past let's not do it now." Things change. Progress is made. I don't think I have to elaborate on that in a big picture idea so we'll stay on basketball. So much happens in each game, for each team, in each season that it'd be absurd to believe that any one person can compute all that information, quantify it, and evaluate across the entire league. What we see is valuable but so is understanding stuff we don't see. Simple stats like True Shooting Percentage and PER can help paint a clearer picture of players whose basic stats or media hype are misrepresentations of their impact on their team and on the league. Now we even have websites like MySynergySports which track players entire seasons on both ends of the court and sort them by isolations, post-ups, pick and rolls, etc.

Anybody who tries to know it all by just using stats is a fool. But I have to say I feel just as strongly that anyone who tries to know it all without the stats is just as lost.

kdspurman
10-01-2011, 11:30 PM
lol at the T-Mac vote.. Went with Duncan. But not mad if Shaq or Kobe win it. 1a 1b 1c in my eyes in no order. Duncan has been stellar on both ends of the floor his career. His defensive dominance and consistent offense I think far surpasses Kobe. (Since it's looking like Kobe vs Tim) Kobe's a good defender, but not on an elite level, imo...

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:35 PM
Because we're human? I'm not impressed with the whole "we didn't do it in the past let's not do it now." Things change. Progress is made. I don't think I have to elaborate on that in a big picture idea so we'll stay on basketball. So much happens in each game, for each team, in each season that it'd be absurd to believe that any one person can compute all that information, quantify it, and evaluate across the entire league. What we see is valuable but so is understanding stuff we don't see. Simple stats like True Shooting Percentage and PER can help paint a clearer picture of players whose basic stats or media hype are misrepresentations of their impact on their team and on the league. Now we even have websites like MySynergySports which track players entire seasons on both ends of the court and sort them by isolations, post-ups, pick and rolls, etc.

Anybody who tries to know it all by just using stats is a fool. But I have to say I feel just as strongly that anyone who tries to know it all without the stats is just as lost.
You have a fair point. Do I agree with all of it? No. Am I going to change my ways? No. I already use statistics (usually basic and occasionally advanced) but I am not going to obsess over it nor am I going to let it be the foregone conclusion to everything. I am not going to argue with anyone bringing up stats such as PER though, you can go explain the value of PER to me if you would like, I have never taken that stat seriously and I don't think I am going to start now. I don't care that Wade who is one of my favorite players is usually at the top of the PER list. It just doesn't hold much weight to me.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 12:01 AM
Oh and X-Factor a.k.a Swashcuff

Here is what PSD thinks of the best player in the league in 2009, and 2010.

2009:
http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392890&page=13

Kobe wins over LeBron, 146-108


2010:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14914727

Kobe wins over LeBron, 174-153


Can't find 2008 but Kobe more than likely won. Deal with it.

Cal827
10-02-2011, 12:08 AM
Oh and X-Factor a.k.a Swashcuff

Here is what PSD thinks of the best player in the league in 2009, and 2010.

2009:
http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392890&page=13

Kobe wins over LeBron, 146-108


2010:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14914727

Kobe wins over LeBron, 174-153


Can't find 2008 but Kobe more than likely won. Deal with it.

To be fair, a lot of those votes might be Homer Laker fan votes. There's absolutely no denying that Kobe is a fantastic player, but I'm pretty sure the amount of Laker fans on PSD outnumber a few franchises (E.g. Cleveland) totals combined. So, although he might not have been the best, some might have voted for him b/c they wanna be loyal to their best player. (Sorry Laker fans, I'm not trying to bait, I'm just pointing something out). If take away the Lakers and Cavs fans votes on those polls, I am inclined to Believe that Lebron is a lot closer or might have won one or both of those.

Swashcuff
10-02-2011, 12:13 AM
Oh and X-Factor a.k.a Swashcuff

Here is what PSD thinks of the best player in the league in 2009, and 2010.

2009:
http://prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392890&page=13

Kobe wins over LeBron, 146-108


2010:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14914727

Kobe wins over LeBron, 174-153


Can't find 2008 but Kobe more than likely won. Deal with it.

So because PSD thought he was the best (largely biased due to the plethora of Laker fans and those who live for the moment) that means he is? I rather use my basic common sense and understanding and not live in the moment but rather make a complete analysis.

I much rather take the opinion of the smart posters who know what relevance is.

What do you think PSD would say for players from 03-07? I can guarantee you they won't agree with you.

Here is what the site in which X-Factor post thinks

2009-10 LeBron James
2008-09 LeBron James
2007-08 Kevin Garnett
2006-07 Tim Duncan
2005-06 Dwyane Wade
2004-05 Tim Duncan
2003-04 Kevin Garnett
2002-03 Tim Duncan
2001-02 Shaquille O'Neal
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal
1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal

Raps08-09 Champ
10-02-2011, 12:13 AM
I went Kobe because he lasted the whole decade of elite play.

Duncan lasted 9 years of elite play and Shaq lasted 6 years of elite play.

Baller1
10-02-2011, 12:17 AM
Duncan.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 12:18 AM
I went Kobe because he lasted the whole decade of elite play.

Duncan lasted 9 years of elite play and Shaq lasted 6 years of elite play.
Something we can agree on for once. Although those aren't my reasons.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Kobe was the best player in the league for at least 3 seasons. 07-08 was the clear cut one. Nobody was better than him that season. And depending on whether you value winning or production more, he was the best from 06-08 or the best from 08-10. Depends on what you value more. You could very well argue LeBron was never the best since he never won. But if you value production more you can't argue that.

Even if the majority of the site are Laker fans, he still won the entire thing. So obviously more than just Laker fans voted for him.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-02-2011, 12:35 AM
Kobe was the best player in the league for at least 3 seasons. 07-08 was the clear cut one. Nobody was better than him that season. And depending on whether you value winning or production more, he was the best from 06-08 or the best from 08-10. Depends on what you value more. You could very well argue LeBron was never the best since he never won. But if you value production more you can't argue that.

Even if the majority of the site are Laker fans, he still won the entire thing. So obviously more than just Laker fans voted for him.

To be fair, Lebron already had a whole lot of haters even then.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 12:41 AM
To be fair, Lebron already had a whole lot of haters even then.

Maybe but certainly not to the degree as he does now. I actually liked LeBron when he was in Cleveland.

Raps08-09 Champ
10-02-2011, 12:44 AM
Maybe but certainly not to the degree as he does now. I actually liked LeBron when he was in Cleveland.

Actually I remember those threads now.

They had Kobe because he won the title those years and Lebron messed up.

And for the 2010 one, that was right after Lebron bolded for the Heat.

ryanj12344
10-02-2011, 12:52 AM
Obviously Kobe Bryant. Duncan is defintely 2nd though and has an arguement for 1st.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 12:53 AM
Actually I remember those threads now.

They had Kobe because he won the title those years and Lebron messed up.

And for the 2010 one, that was right after Lebron bolded for the Heat.

Good my kind of site, value for winning.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:16 AM
Kobe for me. If you go 2000-2010.
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan (Arguable)
2005 - Kobe (Arguable)
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe (Duncan was not the best player on his Spurs team anymore.)
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe

That's just my opinion.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:17 AM
Kobe for me. If you go 2000-2010.
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan (Arguable)
2005 - Kobe (Arguable)
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe (Duncan was not the best player on his Spurs team anymore.)
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe

That's just my opinion.
lmao @ shaq not being the best from 2000-2003. And Kobe was not even close to best in 2005 that was an off year.

Who do you have as the best in 2011? just out of curiosity.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:20 AM
lmao @ shaq not being the best from 2000-2003. And Kobe was not even close to best in 2005 that was an off year.

Who do you have as the best in 2011? just out of curiosity.

I am saying as if it is only between Duncan and Kobe. Excluding all the other players. Since the main argument here is Tim vs Kobe.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:23 AM
I am saying as if it is only between Duncan and Kobe. Excluding all the other players. Since the main argument here is Tim vs Kobe.
2005? There is no argument for Kobe. Kobe was not even top 5 that season. It was a really off-season for him.

But I agree for the most part if you are just comparing the two of them. All but the 2005 one. 2007 is arguable with Kobe and Duncan, lol @ the comment of Duncan no longer being ht best on his team anymore .

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:25 AM
2005? There is no argument for Kobe. Kobe was not even top 5 that season. It was a really off-season for him.

But I agree for the most part if you are just comparing the two of them. All but the 2005 one. 2007 is arguable with Kobe and Duncan, lol @ the comment of Duncan no longer being ht best on his team anymore .

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2007_finals.html Look at the stats. Parker was their main offensive weapon, alongside Ginobili. Timmy was still good, but he was not the "go-to-guy" on every possession.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:26 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2007_finals.html Look at the stats. Parker was their main offensive weapon, alongside Ginobili. Timmy was still good, but he was not the "go-to-guy" on every possession.

Um that was just the finals, you might want to look at everything and there is more to the game than scoring. Not averaging the most points on your team doesn't mean you can't be the best. Who was the best player on the 08 Celtics? Garnett or Pierce?

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:31 AM
Um that was just the finals, you might want to look at everything and there is more to the game than scoring. Not averaging the most points on your team doesn't mean you can't be the best. Who was the best player on the 08 Celtics? Garnett or Pierce?

It's not just point. Parker also played more minutes. If you watched the series you would understand. The reason I brought up the Finals, is because it's biggest stage of basketball, the time when the best player steps up. Duncan was still a force, but it can be argued that he was not the best player on his team; Parker was damn close to him at that point. I understand that that it is not about just about scoring, but if you watched the series you would understand what I mean.

In 08 it was pretty close, both players can be argued to be the best. KG had a bigger defensive impact, but Pierce was the leader, and gave more overall, don't forget he got the Finals MVP.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:33 AM
It's not just point. Parker also played more minutes. If you watched the series you would understand. The reason I brought up the Finals, is because it's biggest stage of basketball, the time when the best player steps up. Duncan was still a force, but it can be argued that he was not the best player on his team; Parker was damn close to him at that point. I understand that that it is not about just about scoring, but if you watched the series you would understand what I mean.

In 08 it was pretty close, both players can be argued to be the best. KG had a bigger defensive impact, but Pierce was the leader, and gave more overall, don't forget he got the Finals MVP.
I don't agree with you but that is your opinion. All I ask from you is to have your logic stay consistent and not contradict yourself. You did that so good job. A lot of other people would contradict themselves for many reasons.

Just curious even though it is a little off-topic, who do you think was the best player on the Heat, Wade or LeBron?

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:35 AM
I don't agree with you but that is your opinion. All I ask from you is to have your logic stay consistent and not contradict yourself. You did that so good job. A lot of other people would contradict themselves for many reasons.

Just curious even though it is a little off-topic, who do you think was the best player on the Heat, Wade or LeBron?

How am I contradicting myself?

LOL, I know you want me to say Wade, but no sorry its Lebron. We can talk after Wade hits 30. If he can still keep up his game at that age, then Ill say Wade, but for now Lebron.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:40 AM
2005 - Kobe (Arguable)
2007 - Kobe (Duncan was not the best player on his Spurs team anymore.)
.
^^^ that right there is sig worthy.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:41 AM
Right.....which is why you said Duncan was no longer the best player on his team in 07. Yeah you're a really intelligent guy. :rolleyes:

In 2007, yes I think that Parker was taking over as the best guy in that year. Duncan was already in his late 30's.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:48 AM
Yeah I'm the one ignorant when you are the one that thinks Parker > Duncan in 2007 and Kobe was close to Duncan in 2005. Yup, absolutely. :rolleyes:

I already said, that it was stupid to put Kobe over Duncan in 05, okay, my bad.

MTar786
10-02-2011, 05:35 AM
kobe easily.. then shaq and duncan tied

MTar786
10-02-2011, 05:45 AM
Kobe for me. If you go 2000-2010.
2000 - shaq
2001 - shaq
2002 - shaq
2003 - Duncan and kobe
2004 - kg
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe and lebron
2010 - lebron

That's just my opinion.

Fixed

Supreme LA
10-02-2011, 08:00 AM
So because PSD thought he was the best (largely biased due to the plethora of Laker fans and those who live for the moment) that means he is? I rather use my basic common sense and understanding and not live in the moment but rather make a complete analysis.

I much rather take the opinion of the smart posters who know what relevance is.

What do you think PSD would say for players from 03-07? I can guarantee you they won't agree with you.

Here is what the site in which X-Factor post thinks

2009-10 LeBron James
2008-09 LeBron James
2007-08 Kevin Garnett
2006-07 Tim Duncan
2005-06 Dwyane Wade
2004-05 Tim Duncan
2003-04 Kevin Garnett
2002-03 Tim Duncan
2001-02 Shaquille O'Neal
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal
1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal


Maybe you should take in to account as well that the majority of players, GM's, and coaches also have expressed their opinion that Kobe was the best player in the league during those years.

You can't go off calling someone else ignorant just because they disagree with you. The top 3 vote getters should be Shaquille, Kobe, and Tim Duncan. Anybody can make a valuable argument for either and they wouldn't be wrong.

You can throw out numbers all day to support your points, but in the end, you can't throw out the fact that Kobe and Shaq (playing alongside eachother or not) always destroyed the Spurs.

Supreme LA
10-02-2011, 08:09 AM
It's gotta be Kobe. I suppose we should take into account that Shaquille fell off at the end of 2006, while Duncan fell off after 2007-2008. Kobe's rise and dominance as a player started at the beginning of the decade and peaked in 2007-2008. We have only seen Kobe's game slip this past season. It's gotta be Kobe if you're voting for player of the decade.

Please don't throw a bunch of stats to debate with me. This is just my opinion and I take into account winning and the measure of a player's all around basketball skills in my vote. Kobe is a master of the game of basketball. You can't name another player who has mastered all the skills that he has since the likes of MJ himself.

2000 - Shaquille
2001 - Shaquille
2002 - Shaquille
2003 - Shaquille
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe

Swashcuff
10-02-2011, 09:31 AM
Maybe you should take in to account as well that the majority of players, GM's, and coaches also have expressed their opinion that Kobe was the best player in the league during those years.

You can't go off calling someone else ignorant just because they disagree with you. The top 3 vote getters should be Shaquille, Kobe, and Tim Duncan. Anybody can make a valuable argument for either and they wouldn't be wrong.

You can throw out numbers all day to support your points, but in the end, you can't throw out the fact that Kobe and Shaq (playing alongside eachother or not) always destroyed the Spurs.


It's gotta be Kobe. I suppose we should take into account that Shaquille fell off at the end of 2006, while Duncan fell off after 2007-2008. Kobe's rise and dominance as a player started at the beginning of the decade and peaked in 2007-2008. We have only seen Kobe's game slip this past season. It's gotta be Kobe if you're voting for player of the decade.

Please don't throw a bunch of stats to debate with me. This is just my opinion and I take into account winning and the measure of a player's all around basketball skills in my vote. Kobe is a master of the game of basketball. You can't name another player who has mastered all the skills that he has since the likes of MJ himself.

2000 - Shaquille
2001 - Shaquille
2002 - Shaquille
2003 - Shaquille
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe

You know what I dislike most about attempting to have a debate with fans like you the line where you say "This is just my opinion". Many times posters have changed my opinion on this forum because I keep an open mind. You guys have a clear cut agenda to back your team's player and you see don't care what anyone else says you're not going to listen. You told me earlier that I shouldn't call someone ignorant (though I didn't) but you are doing nothing more than displaying that.

You don't want stats, you don't want facts you just want to go on your opinion and end the discussion there.

Isn't it ironic that you say Kobe and Shaq destroyed the Spurs when in actuality that doesn't really help Kobe's case. He was Shaq's second option they were 2 of the top 3 players of the decade playing on the same team against 1 of the top 3 of the decade. That's no claim to fame. Those were the very same Spurs that put an end to the Lakers hope of winning a 4th straight title while having only one All Star in Tim Duncan.

You don't want anyone to debate you because you have your opinion and no one can change that, my question is to you then why post?

jericho
10-02-2011, 10:23 AM
duncan was clearly the best this past decade with a lesser team compared to the lakers he was always on top and he made the players around him better cant say the same for kobe after the shaq trade dont get me wrong he good but after that trade till he got gasol he was just a ballhog and dont say that his team was that bad cuz lebron(cavs) jkid(nets) and chris paul have been taking teams with scrubs to the playoffs every year anyways
1duncan
2kobe
3shaq(he was only relevant the first half of the decade)
then the rest

JLynn943
10-02-2011, 11:07 AM
It's gotta be Kobe. I suppose we should take into account that Shaquille fell off at the end of 2006, while Duncan fell off after 2007-2008. Kobe's rise and dominance as a player started at the beginning of the decade and peaked in 2007-2008. We have only seen Kobe's game slip this past season. It's gotta be Kobe if you're voting for player of the decade.

Please don't throw a bunch of stats to debate with me. This is just my opinion and I take into account winning and the measure of a player's all around basketball skills in my vote. Kobe is a master of the game of basketball. You can't name another player who has mastered all the skills that he has since the likes of MJ himself.

2000 - Shaquille
2001 - Shaquille
2002 - Shaquille
2003 - Shaquille
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
Lol @ Kobe being the best from 2006 to 2010. I'll give him 2 (maybe 3) of those years, but in my mind it's a joke to not recognize duncan as the best this decade.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Fixed

If you didnt notice I was just comparing Duncan and Kobe EXCLUDING all the other players.

kdspurman
10-02-2011, 01:41 PM
Kobe for me. If you go 2000-2010.
2000 - Duncan
2001 - Duncan
2002 - Duncan
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan (Arguable)
2005 - Kobe (Arguable)
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe (Duncan was not the best player on his Spurs team anymore.)
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe

That's just my opinion.

Duncan was the best player in 2007. Just cause Parker was Finals MVP doesnt tell the whole story. Check their respective stats for the season, and playoffs. Parker just had his way in the finals. But Duncan's numbers were still there. Numbers don't lie Duncan was still very much a force on BOTH ends of the court.

Also, Tim Duncan was not in his late 30's like you said either he was 30. He's barely in his late 30's now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html

KnicksorBust
10-02-2011, 01:48 PM
I'm probably the only one this bothers but everyone is using 11 year decades.

Tony_Starks
10-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Shout out to whoever voted for TMac!

Swashcuff
10-02-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm probably the only one this bothers but everyone is using 11 year decades.

:laugh2:

Which is the reason why I said "No other player can boast of such dominance over the time span in which you are comparing."

I guess excluding the 99-00 season would hurt Kobe's case (since he'll only have 4 titles and not 5) more than it would help. Just one more than TD. It's part of the OPs agenda however.

Hangtime
10-02-2011, 02:45 PM
Edit

Oski H
10-02-2011, 02:57 PM
SHAQ easily

Baller1
10-02-2011, 03:01 PM
Ray Allen should be added to the poll.

Andrew32
10-02-2011, 03:09 PM
Between Shaq | Duncan | Kobe
Shaq is the best player from 00-05
Duncan is the best player in 06 and 07
Kobe is the best player from 08-10

I think the quality of seasons Duncan and Shaq had in the early 00's take away any chance of Kobe winning this "Award" They just had seasons that were much more productive and valuable then most of Bryants.

So my Ranking would be
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe

If you offered me Shaq from 00-05 vs having Duncan from 00-07 or Kobe from 01-10 I'd still choose Shaq.

If you want the player who's quality remained the most consistent from 00-10 then you'd take Kobe since he really didn't start declining until 2010.

Personally I rank Quality over Quanitity in this Case but for those who dont I understand.

KnicksorBust
10-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Between Shaq | Duncan | Kobe
Shaq is the best player from 00-05
Duncan is the best player in 06 and 07
Kobe is the best player from 08-10

I think the quality of seasons Duncan and Shaq had in the early 00's take away any chance of Kobe winning this "Award" They just had seasons that were much more productive and valuable then most of Bryants.

So my Ranking would be
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Kobe

If you offered me Shaq from 00-05 vs having Duncan from 00-07 or Kobe from 00-10 I'd still choose Shaq.

If you want the player who's quality remained the most consistent from 00-10 then you'd take Kobe since he really didn't start declining until 2010.

Personally I rank Quality over Quanitity in this Case but for those who dont I understand.

Since it's specifically "of the decade," Shaq had easily 4 of the 5 worst seasons of the decade. That prevents me from giving him the nod.

Andrew32
10-02-2011, 03:27 PM
You dont understand

I said in this particular Case Quality >>> Quantity.

I'd take Shaq from 00-05 over Kobe from 01-10.

He may have some bad seasons (especially once he left Phoenix) but from 00-02 he was the GOAT and from 03-05 I think he was significantly better then both players (except 03 where Duncan was close)

The OP didnt say "Which NBA Player was most consistent from 00-10"

It's like
Player A makes 50 Dollers in 5 Years then 5 Dollers in the next 5 Years.
Play B makes 5 Dollers his 1st Year and then 35 Dollers in his next 9 Years.

I'll still take player A.

KnicksorBust
10-02-2011, 03:31 PM
You dont understand

I said in this particular Case Quality >>> Quantity.

I'd take Shaq from 00-05 over Kobe from 01-10.

He may have some bad seasons (especially once he left Phoenix) but from 00-02 he was the GOAT and from 03-05 I think he was significantly better then both players (except 03 where Duncan was close)

The OP didnt say "Which NBA Player was most consistent from 00-10"

I understand. :) I'm just curious what it would take to swing your opinion.

What if it was who was the best player from 02-10 and you lost two of those Shaq years?

Sportfan
10-02-2011, 03:32 PM
Duncan
Kobe
KG
Lebron
Shaq

is my top 5.

TheNumber37
10-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Kobe's got 5 rings this decade. That's a lot.
I think Kobe is number 1 because over the entire time he was playing at a high level. Duncan has been declining since about 08. And Shaq played his last great season in Phoenix.
As long they all go in the top 3, everything else is debatable really.

Andrew32
10-02-2011, 03:33 PM
I understand. :) I'm just curious what it would take to swing your opinion.

What if it was who was the best player from 02-10 and you lost two of those Shaq years?

Umm...

Then I'd take both Duncan and Kobe over Shaq.

Shaq's biggest + is his excellence from 00-04/05 RS.

Duncan probably would have passed Shaq in 05 had he not been injured.

Sportfan
10-02-2011, 03:37 PM
not being a homer, but the lack of KG in this discussion is absurd

Bruno
10-02-2011, 03:41 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/_/id/4018/nba-highlights-decade#top

Over 70,000 NBA fans voted on these "best of the decade" categories, including best player. Bryant won player of the decade with 66.5% of the vote.

For those who appreciate a larger sample size.

Bruno
10-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Also, Bryants fifth title and second finals MVP came in the new decade. That's important.

Corey
10-02-2011, 03:43 PM
1) Duncan
2) Kobe
3) Shaq

Corey
10-02-2011, 03:45 PM
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/poll/_/id/4018/nba-highlights-decade#top

Over 70,000 NBA fans voted on these "best of the decade" categories, including best player. Bryant won player of the decade with 66.5% of the vote.

For those who appreciate a larger sample size.

You just stated exactly why that's not credible. You said 'fans' voted. Kobe is flashier, more popular, and a more polarizing figure than Tim Duncan. Of course he's going to get more fan votes. He was made the face of the NBA for a period of time.

Bruno
10-02-2011, 04:05 PM
You just stated exactly why that's not credible. You said 'fans' voted. Kobe is flashier, more popular, and a more polarizing figure than Tim Duncan. Of course he's going to get more fan votes. He was made the face of the NBA for a period of time.

What are we?

I wasn't using that as the basis of an argument in favor of Kobe. I just think it's interesting how such a large sample size vote Kobe overwhelmingly, despite his polarizing image.

Greet
10-02-2011, 04:07 PM
Why is Steve Nash on the list but not Jason Kidd?

smith&wesson
10-02-2011, 05:43 PM
Shaq stopped being relevant 2007-2008. so its def not him.

Underrated Wade
10-02-2011, 06:36 PM
1. kobe
2. shaq
3. duncan
4. steve
5. dirk
6. iverson
7. pierce
8. KG
9. DWYANE WADEEEEEEEEEEEE NAAAAAAAAAAT i wish :(

Underrated Wade
10-02-2011, 06:36 PM
why is lebron even on this list. he wasnt even in the nba

knightstemplar
10-02-2011, 06:38 PM
So because PSD thought he was the best (largely biased due to the plethora of Laker fans and those who live for the moment) that means he is? I rather use my basic common sense and understanding and not live in the moment but rather make a complete analysis.

I much rather take the opinion of the smart posters who know what relevance is.

What do you think PSD would say for players from 03-07? I can guarantee you they won't agree with you.

Here is what the site in which X-Factor post thinks

2009-10 LeBron James
2008-09 LeBron James
2007-08 Kevin Garnett
2006-07 Tim Duncan
2005-06 Dwyane Wade
2004-05 Tim Duncan
2003-04 Kevin Garnett
2002-03 Tim Duncan
2001-02 Shaquille O'Neal
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal
1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal

Duncan the best in 05 and 07
KG the best in 08
wtf? :facepalm:

knightstemplar
10-02-2011, 06:41 PM
You just stated exactly why that's not credible. You said 'fans' voted. Kobe is flashier, more popular, and a more polarizing figure than Tim Duncan. Of course he's going to get more fan votes. He was made the face of the NBA for a period of time.

maybe because he was just better?

Swashcuff
10-02-2011, 06:42 PM
Duncan the best in 05 and 07
KG the best in 08
wtf? :facepalm:

Well while I don't agree with their POV entirely they based their reasoning on the entire season (regular and post season with the post season being paid particular attention to) and team performance.

With that being taken into consideration one can understand how they arrived at those conclusions.

BigDiesel32
10-02-2011, 11:43 PM
Well while I don't agree with their POV entirely they based their reasoning on the entire season (regular and post season with the post season being paid particular attention to) and team performance.

With that being taken into consideration one can understand how they arrived at those conclusions.
It is pretty pathetic that you have to rely on other people to make an opinion for you. Why don't you just think and make an opinion yourself? You ever think of that? Oh and it is pretty pathetic that you have to make a duplicate account on another site just to attack a bunch of posters on there.

Anyways, back on topic, I believe the player of the decade was Shaq. He also has 4 rings. His prime was too dominant for Duncan and Kobe's longevity.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:09 AM
It is pretty pathetic that you have to rely on other people to make an opinion for you. Why don't you just think and make an opinion yourself? You ever think of that? Oh and it is pretty pathetic that you have to make a duplicate account on another site just to attack a bunch of posters on there.

Anyways, back on topic, I believe the player of the decade was Shaq. He also has 4 rings. His prime was too dominant for Duncan and Kobe's longevity.

Interesting. You don't even know me but you come across quite smug. I wonder if you're a dup. Hmmmm.

I don't have a dup anywhere. There are many PSD posters who post on that site as well also under different names, I am attacking no one I post on more than one forum just like the other posters. :laugh2:

There is no rule against being a part of multiple forums. As a matter of a fact if I didn't have my location in both forums their is no way someone would have known it was me.

Also it's evident that you lack basic comprehension skills. I rely on no one for my opinion but myself. However an opinion can change when being shown another POV which sheds light on facts in which you previously weren't completely aware of. Many people don't grasp that and think that they are right in what they say and nothing can change that, if that's your way of viewing things then it's best you don't even join a forum just keep to yourself with your opinion since you're not going to add any substance to anything being debated.

Lastly you know what's most ridiculous my response was to a banned poster who quoted PSD's #s. I was just showing him exactly how opinion differs on each forum. But here you are chastising me for doing exactly what he did himself.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:12 AM
Interesting. You don't even know me but you come across quite smug. I wonder if you're a dup. Hmmmm.
Check my IPs, check whatever, I know what I am.




I don't have a dup anywhere. There are many PSD posters who post on that site as well also under different names, I am attacking no one I post on more than one forum just like the other posters. :laugh2:
Looks like you know what site I am talking about but I know your dup on another site and it is pathetic that you have multiple accounts on that site and you have to attack posters using those duplicates. I just thought it would be nice if everyone else on PSD including yourself would know and that I already know.


There is no rule against being a part of multiple forums. As a matter of a fact if I didn't have my location in both forums their is no way someone would have known it was me.
Never said there was, quit being defensive.



Also it's evident that you lack basic comprehension skills. I rely on no one for my opinion but myself. However an opinion can change when being shown another POV which sheds light on facts in which you previously weren't completely aware of. Many people don't grasp that and think that they are right in what they say and nothing can change that, if that's your way of viewing things then it's best you don't even join a forum just keep to yourself with your opinion since you're not going to add any substance to anything being debated.
Sure, yet you can keep bringing up this "list" from a different site and acting as if it is the bible of basketball or something. It is clear you just cannot form opinions but just rely on others to create them for you. You contribute to nothing in discussions. You are nothing more than a flea. You don't have an opinion, you just jack them from other people that have made the opinion. In other words, you don't think, you rely on others to think for you.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:19 AM
Check my IPs, check whatever, I know what I am.


Looks like you know what site I am talking about but I know your dup on another site and it is pathetic that you have multiple accounts on that site and you have to attack posters using those duplicates. I just thought it would be nice if everyone else on PSD including yourself would know and that I already know.

Never said there was, quit being defensive.


Sure, yet you can keep bringing up this "list" from a different site and acting as if it is the bible of basketball or something. It is clear you just cannot form opinions but just rely on others to create them for you. You contribute to nothing in discussions. You are nothing more than a flea. You don't have an opinion, you just jack them from other people that have made the opinion. In other words, you don't think, you rely on others to think for you.

You clearly know me from the other site because I X-Factor have multiple dupes and use them to attack everyone. Thanks for telling all of PSD this. :laugh:

Apparently I have a stalker. You come here and lie blatantly and think it's something that will make PSD think of me differently :laugh2:

Question if I have all these dupes in which I use to attack posters why am I not banned? Why am I still posting there? :pity:

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:23 AM
You clearly know me from the other site because I X-Factor have multiple dupes and use them to attack everyone. Thanks for telling all of PSD this. :laugh:
I am talking about insidehoops, a site that you use the account called BlackJoker23 where you personally attack every poster and you do nothing but that.



Apparently I have a stalker. You come here and lie blatantly and think it's something that will make PSD think of me differently :laugh2:
Stalker? I have been on this site longer than you have, lets compare join dates shall we? I am a lurker on this site for the most part and I have to say you contribute to nothing on this site.

Lie? You are the one that is denying the fact that you troll on another site called insidehoops. Not that it matters anyways because it is impossible to get banned on that site.



Question if I have all these dupes in which I use to attack posters why am I not banned? Why am I still posting there? :pity:
I didn't say you have dupes on here. I said you have dupes on the other site and you personally attack others over there. After all you are allowed to have dupes over there because the owner of the site doesn't give a crap about anything other than money.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:28 AM
I am talking about insidehoops, a site that you use the account called BlackJoker23 where you personally attack every poster and you do nothing but that.

Tell me how do you feel? I don't have an there :laugh:

You guys are really something else. No facts but making outlandish accusations :pity:


Stalker? I have been on this site longer than you have, lets compare join dates shall we? I am a lurker on this site for the most part and I have to say you contribute to nothing on this site.

Lie? You are the one that is denying the fact that you troll on another site called insidehoops. Not that it matters anyways because it is impossible to get banned on that site.

The what I don't have an account on that site even if I did why in God's name would I troll unlike others I have a life.


I didn't say you have dupes on here. I said you have dupes on the other site and you personally attack others over there. After all you are allowed to have dupes over there because the owner of the site doesn't give a crap about anything other than money.

Child get your facts straight before ever speaking to me again. I am part of one other American basketball forum and it's NOT the one you're speaking about.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:31 AM
Tell me how do you feel? I don't have an there :laugh:

You guys are really something else. No facts but making outlandish accusations :pity:
Sure, I know the truth and you do too. Deny it all you want.




The what I don't have an account on that site even if I did why in God's name would I troll unlike others I have a life.
Sure.




Child get your facts straight before ever speaking to me again. I am part of one other American basketball forum and it's NOT the one you're speaking about.
You are on both and you troll on ISH and you try to be serious on ****** when the reality is more than half of the site probably thinks you are a moron.

Continue with your life, troll.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:33 AM
Sure, I know the truth and you do too. Deny it all you want.



Sure.



You are on both and you troll on ISH and you try to be serious on ****** when the reality is more than half of the site probably thinks you are a moron.

Continue with your life, troll.

Thank you. :clap:

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:37 AM
Thank you. :clap:

Uh huh, no problem. I just wanted to let you know that what you are doing is really pathetic and you pretty much have no credibility. Personally attacking others on a duplicate account on other sites and trolling on there just because you can.


I advise most people on this site to put Swashcuff on ignore. Unless you just want to hear the same opinion other people speak on a site. After all the guy isn't capable of creating his own opinion just following others. He says nothing another guy on a site would not be able to say. He posts nothing thoughtful and he can think the same way I probably could when I was 12.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:41 AM
Uh huh, no problem. I just wanted to let you know that what you are doing is really pathetic and you pretty much have no credibility. Personally attacking others on a duplicate account on other sites and trolling on there just because you can.


I advise most people on this site to put Swashcuff on ignore. Unless you just want to hear the same opinion other people speak on a site. After all the guy isn't capable of creating his own opinion just following others. He says nothing another guy on a site would not be able to say. He posts nothing thoughtful and he can think the same way I probably could when I was 12.

Do tell us more

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:43 AM
So now you've decided to PM me to tell me to shut up? Yeah, no denial there at all.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:48 AM
So now you've decided to PM me to tell me to shut up? Yeah, no denial there at all.

Really? What else did I say?

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 12:49 AM
I'm really wasting my time with you but say what I'm not sleepy at the moment. You know you're a troll and won't even admit it I mean seriously why don't you get a life? Don't you have people who care for you and love you or are you a loner or some pathetic loser? I can't see any reason why a human being would spend their time in front of a computer trolling.

Hmm.....someone sounds upset

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:53 AM
Hmm.....someone sounds upset

Haha really upset right. So if I'm indeed a troll and telling you to stop why would I also tell you that I can't understand why someone would troll not just one site but more than one. One good thing however when a mod gets wind of this and deletes all our comments you'd be permabanned :D

LA_Raiders
10-03-2011, 01:18 AM
1 Kobe
2 TD
3 Shaq

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 01:29 AM
Haha really upset right. So if I'm indeed a troll and telling you to stop why would I also tell you that I can't understand why someone would troll not just one site but more than one. One good thing however when a mod gets wind of this and deletes all our comments you'd be permabanned :D
Sure, BlackJoker23

naps
10-03-2011, 01:48 AM
I advise most people on this site to put Swashcuff on ignore. Unless you just want to hear the same opinion other people speak on a site. After all the guy isn't capable of creating his own opinion just following others. He says nothing another guy on a site would not be able to say. He posts nothing thoughtful and he can think the same way I probably could when I was 12.

Thank you for your advise, now GTFO please! Swascuff contributes a lot in this forum and I have never seen you here before. I am pretty sure most people would agree with me. This is a wrong site for you.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 01:53 AM
Thank you for your advise, now GTFO please! Swascuff contributes a lot in this forum and I have never seen you here before. I am pretty sure most people would agree with me. This is a wrong site for you.
I have been around since 2009 and you are one telling me whats up around here? You joined in 2011 and you act as if you are my dad or something when I am sure I am old enough to be yours. I don't really have anything negative to say about you though aside from the post I'm quoting. Swashcuff on the otherhand does damage outside of this forum. If you troll on another site and I knew it I would call you out too. I know Swashcuff does it which is why I called him out in this thread.

Kobes a Killer
10-03-2011, 02:10 AM
Holy crap yall need to grow up. Hasn't anyone learnt, people have different opinion and history shows us one person on this site isn't gonna convince another person to see things the way they want them too. That's why it's called a person opinion. It's like y'all want everyone in the world to agree with you OR ELSE. Like damn i see bull crap on this site everyday I don't agree with, what do I do... ON TO THE NEXT POST who gives a damn what one fool thinks. Why waste your time arguing with someone you have no chance of changing there opinion. Some people on here have good debates and that's cool, but it isn't hard to see a lost cause just give it up

naps
10-03-2011, 02:14 AM
[QUOTE=BigDiesel32;19366529]I have been around since 2009 and you are one telling me whats up around here?

Has nothing to do with anything here. Just because you joined here before me doesn't mean you own this forum. Stop giving me that BS. I at least know better than you how to act mature and not take threads off-topic.


You joined in 2011 and you act as if you are my dad or something when I am sure I am old enough to be yours.


How the **** on earth do you know how old I am to claim yourself older than me? And even if you are that doesn't warrant anything. You could be a 70 year old fool while someone else could be a 15 year old kid but much smarter than you.


I don't really have anything negative to say about you though aside from the post I'm quoting. Swashcuff on the otherhand does damage outside of this forum. If you troll on another site and I knew it I would call you out too. I know Swashcuff does it which is why I called him out in this thread.

What Swascuff does on other forums should be brought in here because he doesn't do anything like that here. From what I have seen he is a very consistent poster here and doesn't attack people personally unlike you. Keep things of other forums outside of here because in no way this forum needs to be worried about what the hell is going on in some other forums. You need to shut up already before taking this thread more off-topic.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 02:21 AM
What Swascuff does on other forums should be brought in here because he doesn't do anything like that here. From what I have seen he is a very consistent poster here and doesn't attack people personally unlike you. Keep things of other forums outside of here because in no way this forum needs to be worried about what the hell is going on in some other forums. You need to shut up already before taking this thread more off-topic.
Hmm, not really. Swashcuff brings up the opinion of other posters on another site. Acting as if if you don't agree with the opinion of those guys you are an idiot and that you should stop watching basketball. So if he does that why am I not allowed to bring up the garbage he does on another site? I just wanted to expose him and let everyone know that this guy is a troll on another site and that he is no better than any other troll that has ever existed on PSD. He doesn't do it on this site, sure. But he does it on other sites.

Let me ask you this. If your friend who was a serial killer but he didn't do kill the people in your city but he killed people in other cities, would he still have the same credibility to you? No, he wouldn't as he shouldn't.

naps
10-03-2011, 05:16 AM
Hmm, not really. Swashcuff brings up the opinion of other posters on another site. Acting as if if you don't agree with the opinion of those guys you are an idiot and that you should stop watching basketball. So if he does that why am I not allowed to bring up the garbage he does on another site? I just wanted to expose him and let everyone know that this guy is a troll on another site and that he is no better than any other troll that has ever existed on PSD. He doesn't do it on this site, sure. But he does it on other sites.

Let me ask you this. If your friend who was a serial killer but he didn't do kill the people in your city but he killed people in other cities, would he still have the same credibility to you? No, he wouldn't as he shouldn't.

Stop bringing up killing and all that. This is a mere internet forum for God's sake! I don't give a **** on what he does on the other forums as long as he's not trolling and taking threads off-topic like you. Stop this already and get back on the topic on hand, if not then please go back to the forum where it will make more sense for you. This is a wrong site for you where Swashcuff happens to be decent poster.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 07:36 AM
Stop bringing up killing and all that. This is a mere internet forum for God's sake! I don't give a **** on what he does on the other forums as long as he's not trolling and taking threads off-topic like you. Stop this already and get back on the topic on hand, if not then please go back to the forum where it will make more sense for you. This is a wrong site for you where Swashcuff happens to be decent poster.

You do realize he's the one trolling other forums and not me right? :laugh2:

Do a quick search of his posting history. He was a troll here many years ago and now he's returned. In actuality I have no doubt that he is indeed the person he's accusing me of being. Its a sad thing that someone would have nothing better to do that to make up silly stuff on a forum where no one really cares about what he has to say. I mean seriously if I was the poster he is accusing me to how on earth would he know that? :pity: I'm beginning to feel sorry for him now.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 07:39 AM
Hmm, not really. Swashcuff brings up the opinion of other posters on another site. Acting as if if you don't agree with the opinion of those guys you are an idiot and that you should stop watching basketball. So if he does that why am I not allowed to bring up the garbage he does on another site? I just wanted to expose him and let everyone know that this guy is a troll on another site and that he is no better than any other troll that has ever existed on PSD. He doesn't do it on this site, sure. But he does it on other sites.

Let me ask you this. If your friend who was a serial killer but he didn't do kill the people in your city but he killed people in other cities, would he still have the same credibility to you? No, he wouldn't as he shouldn't.

Wow just wow :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

People reallllllllllyyyyyy need a life.

Corey
10-03-2011, 08:21 AM
What are we?

I wasn't using that as the basis of an argument in favor of Kobe. I just think it's interesting how such a large sample size vote Kobe overwhelmingly, despite his polarizing image.

Whats interesting? Kobe is more popular and has an international fan base. Not ready surprising.

juno10
10-03-2011, 08:33 AM
Sure, I know the truth and you do too. Deny it all you want.



Sure.



You are on both and you troll on ISH and you try to be serious on ****** when the reality is more than half of the site probably thinks you are a moron.

Continue with your life, troll.

if he trolls on that site i don't blame him, i mean have you seen that site its sole purpose is to troll,trolling is customary over there. never seen that much trolls,homers, on one site ever.

,,, just checked it out pinnacle flash posts there:facepalm:

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 09:04 AM
IF you guys want to check out what Swashcuff does on other sites, go look up the name BlackJoker23 on insidehoops and go ahead and see the type of stuff he posts.

Of course he didn't even deny and had knew 100% of the stuff I was talking about when I was referring to it earlier, kind of odd isn't it?

It's really pathetic what he does. That's all. He barely had any credibility around here anyways.

Da Knicks
10-03-2011, 09:19 AM
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe

ManningToTyree
10-03-2011, 11:52 AM
Kobe

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 12:26 PM
Duncan not winning this is a clear indication of how many homers there are on this site. If you asked unbiased NBA analysts this question, Duncan wins this hands down and Kobe would have been a distant second.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 12:47 PM
Duncan not winning this is a clear indication of how many homers there are on this site. If you asked unbiased NBA analysts this question, Duncan wins this hands down and Kobe would have been a distant second.

We also have to remember that Kobe did beat TD in the PSD's 50 Greatest Players of All Time in the same manner. Its no surprise there.

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 12:57 PM
We also have to remember that Kobe did beat TD in the PSD's 50 Greatest Players of All Time in the same manner. Its no surprise there.

From 2002-2005, Duncan posted a PER from 26.9-27.1 and a WS/48 from .245-.257. He was also first team all-NBA and first team all-defensive over those four years, won two championships, two MVPs and two finals MVPs. I haven't looked at every player in NBA history, but this has got to be one of the greatest four-year peaks in the history of the NBA. Kobe's peak and Duncan's peak should not be spoken in the same breath...

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 01:16 PM
Duncan not winning this is a clear indication of how many homers there are on this site. If you asked unbiased NBA analysts this question, Duncan wins this hands down and Kobe would have been a distant second.

yeah yeah yeah, everybodies a homer blah blah blah

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 01:30 PM
yeah yeah yeah, everybodies a homer blah blah blah

I think you mean "everybody's," and if you look at my above post, I think that's a pretty tough argument to crack. In fact, even though Shaq's numbers didn't drop off so significantly after 2005, you could probably make a case that it's: 1. Duncan, 2. Shaq, 3. Kobe. After all, Kobe would not have five rings if Shaq had not been the best player on those three Lakers teams.

Also, from 2000-2010, Duncan never posted a PER lower than 23.8 and only posted a WS/48 lower than .200 one time. That is freaking ridiculous. By comparison, Kobe only posted a PER that high six of the 10 years and posted a WS/48 lower than .200 five of the 10 years. Duncan also has more MVPs and Finals MVPs.

(It's also really hard to take your post seriously, as you have an image of Kobe in your avatar. If anything, you're just proving my point.)

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 01:36 PM
I think you mean "everybody's," and if you look at my above post, I think that's a pretty tough argument to crack. In fact, even though Shaq's numbers didn't drop off so significantly after 2005, you could probably make a case that it's: 1. Duncan, 2. Shaq, 3. Kobe. After all, Kobe would not have five rings if Shaq had not been the best player on those three Lakers teams.

Also, from 2000-2010, Duncan never posted a PER lower than 23.8 and only posted a WS/48 lower than .200 one time. That is freaking ridiculous. By comparison, Kobe only posted a PER that high six of the 10 years and posted a WS/48 lower than .200 five of the 10 years. Duncan also has more MVPs and Finals MVPs.

(It's also really hard to take your post seriously, as you have an image of Kobe in your avatar. If anything, you're just proving my point.)

Is PER and winshares all that matter? goddamn

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 01:38 PM
oh and btw, Steve Nash has as much MVPs as Shaq and Kobe combined

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 01:41 PM
Is PER and winshares all that matter? goddamn

No. But Duncan also won more MVPs and Finals MVPs and has a superior impact on defense. To consistently put up 10-12 rebounds and 2-3 blocks while scoring 20 a night (and 3 assists, I might add) for an entire decade is ridiculous. No matter what stats you're looking at, Duncan was the better player. Go ahead and give the scoring edge to Kobe, I'll take Duncan for efficiency, defense, rebounding and shot blocking.

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 01:45 PM
oh and btw, Steve Nash has as much MVPs as Shaq and Kobe combined

Just because Nash has a couple of undeserved MVPs does not demean Duncan's MVPs. Look at his numbers the years Duncan won and tell me he was undeserving. 25, 13, 4 and 3 with .257 WS/48 and a 27.0 PER was ridiculous in 2001-2002. And the crazy thing is that he posted BETTER numbers in the playoffs in 2002 AND 2003, when they won a championship.

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 01:52 PM
No. But Duncan also won more MVPs and Finals MVPs and has a superior impact on defense. To consistently put up 10-12 rebounds and 2-3 blocks while scoring 20 a night (and 3 assists, I might add) for an entire decade is ridiculous. No matter what stats you're looking at, Duncan was the better player. Go ahead and give the scoring edge to Kobe, I'll take Duncan for efficiency, defense, rebounding and shot blocking.

actually the efficiency is pretty equal
Kobe - .556 TS%
Tim - .552 TS%

and your listing things that bigmen get, what about kobe's points, assits, steals, and perimeter defense, and clutch buckets - duncan doesnt take the game over in the final minutes like kobe can

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 01:54 PM
Just because Nash has a couple of undeserved MVPs does not demean Duncan's MVPs. Look at his numbers the years Duncan won and tell me he was undeserving. 25, 13, 4 and 3 with .257 WS/48 and a 27.0 PER was ridiculous in 2001-2002. And the crazy thing is that he posted BETTER numbers in the playoffs in 2002 AND 2003, when they won a championship.

who deserved those MVPs?

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 01:58 PM
From 2002-2005, Duncan posted a PER from 26.9-27.1 and a WS/48 from .245-.257. He was also first team all-NBA and first team all-defensive over those four years, won two championships, two MVPs and two finals MVPs. I haven't looked at every player in NBA history, but this has got to be one of the greatest four-year peaks in the history of the NBA. Kobe's peak and Duncan's peak should not be spoken in the same breath...

If you check out patsSOXknicks thread in the Statistics Forum which attempts to gauge the value of the greatest players of all time from a statistical POV you'd see that those numbers reflect exactly what you are alluding to here. I agree with everything you said here.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 02:05 PM
who deserved those MVPs?

If that's the card you're going to play TD supporters can play the very same. Kobe did not deserve those MVPs either.

JordansBulls
10-03-2011, 02:07 PM
Took Kobe. Remember just for the decade. Which means we aren't including Duncan's 1998 and 1999 seasons nor any of Shaq from 1993-1999.

koLohe2133
10-03-2011, 02:07 PM
Not a Kobe fan but he was an integral part if not THE MOST IMPORTANT part of 5 ships....

81 points in a game too....

I mean, people argue whether or not he is top 5-7 all time(some put him top 3-4)....

Duncan isn't mentioned in these spots mind you

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 02:08 PM
If that's the card you're going to play TD supporters can play the very same. Kobe did not deserve those MVPs either.

how?

and I never said Duncan doesnt deserves his MVPs, except the 05 Finals MVP maybe

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 02:18 PM
who deserved those MVPs?

If you're going to say "Kobe," then you'd be wrong. Duncan or Shaq should have won in 2004-2005 (Kobe wasn't even top 5) and Kobe actually finished fourth in 2005-2006.

juno10
10-03-2011, 02:19 PM
how?

and I never said Duncan doesnt deserves his MVPs, except the 05 Finals MVP maybe

because chris paul had one of the best season for a pg in nba history.(if your talking about reguallar season mvp, if not than sorry.)

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 02:28 PM
because chris paul had one of the best season for a pg in nba history.(if your talking about reguallar season mvp, if not than sorry.)
Kobe was the best player, and his team had the best record in the Western Conference, with and without Gasol

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 02:30 PM
Not a Kobe fan but he was an integral part if not THE MOST IMPORTANT part of 5 ships....

81 points in a game too....

I mean, people argue whether or not he is top 5-7 all time(some put him top 3-4)....

Duncan isn't mentioned in these spots mind you
Yes, Duncan is mentioned in those spots, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe Bill Simmons had Duncan as 7th on his pyramid. Also, Kobe was NOT the most important part of the three early 2000s Lakers championships, and that's not even debatable. And one 81-point game does not make a player greater. Wilt put up 100 in a game, and he was still regularly dominated by Bill Russell.


how? and I never said Duncan doesnt deserves his MVPs, except the 05 Finals MVP maybe
Did you even look at the numbers? Duncan's numbers in 2004-2005 were superior in every way. And you can easily argue that Lebron had better numbers in 2005-2006 (and his postseason numbers were absolutely better that year).

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 02:39 PM
Kobe was the best player, and his team had the best record in the Western Conference, with and without Gasol

Did you really look at the numbers? Paul put up absolutely RIDICULOUS numbers in 07-08 and 08-09. Paul's numbers those seasons absolutely dwarf Kobe's.

Also, if you're going to make the "best player on the best team" argument, then Kobe DEFINITELY didn't have a case in 2005 or 2006 as that first team didn't make the playoffs and the second one was a 7th seeded team that got bounced in the first round.

The goods
10-03-2011, 02:54 PM
Kobe but I think you have to factor in age as well kobe is just now leavin his prime as opposed to shaq and duncan are well passed it

OGMarkWahlberg
10-03-2011, 04:08 PM
Shaq, TD, Kobe for me, homer in me wanted to vote for Iverson

Bruno
10-03-2011, 04:21 PM
Whats interesting? Kobe is more popular and has an international fan base. Not ready surprising.

Never said it was surprising. Said it was interesting, despite his polarizing image.

clehmun
10-03-2011, 04:33 PM
Are we gona end this thread, and start voting for #2? or is this an one time deal.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 04:54 PM
Last post I am going to make before I continue lurking on this site for the most part.

I recommend the OP to no longer count Swashcuff's vote and take him away from this Official vote thing. His opinion is pointless considering how he is just stealing it from others like a parasite and because he is a troll on another site.

That's all I have to say.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 04:56 PM
Swashcuff pulling off the same stuff on that site, pathetic the guy is on all these bball sites 24/7. I don't think there is a coincidence that everytime Swashcuff is on, someone on the other message board gets trolled by this guy's duplicate account.

Corey
10-03-2011, 04:57 PM
BigDiesel, cut the crap. If you have a problem with a user PM an admin or mod. Stop baiting.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 05:00 PM
BigDiesel, cut the crap. If you have a problem with a user PM an admin or mod. Stop baiting.
I am not baiting. I am letting exposing the truth about Swashcuff. He is a parasite. I just wanted to recommend the OP to stop coutning his votes from this point forward. He can do whatever he wishes when he returns.

mightybosstone
10-03-2011, 05:01 PM
Last post I am going to make before I continue lurking on this site for the most part.

I recommend the OP to no longer count Swashcuff's vote and take him away from this Official vote thing. His opinion is pointless considering how he is just stealing it from others like a parasite and because he is a troll on another site.

That's all I have to say.


Swashcuff pulling off the same stuff on that site, pathetic the guy is on all these bball sites 24/7. I don't think there is a coincidence that everytime Swashcuff is on, someone on the other message board gets trolled by this guy's duplicate account.

Dude.... LITERALLY, no one cares. You continue to be off topic, you have not said one relevant thing related to basketball since you've been on here, and I don't give a crap what happens on some other website. The dude has 7,000 posts and has been a decent poster. Do I care where he gets his info from? No, I do not. You've been here for all of two seconds and I can't stand you. Either stay on topic, or do not post at all...

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 05:05 PM
Dude.... LITERALLY, no one cares. You continue to be off topic, you have not said one relevant thing related to basketball since you've been on here, and I don't give a crap what happens on some other website. The dude has 7,000 posts and has been a decent poster. Do I care where he gets his info from? No, I do not. You've been here for all of two seconds and I can't stand you. Either stay on topic, or do not post at all...

I can't believe you guys are believing him. He is a crazy person. I seriously am at a lost for words that a human being spends his time randomly hating on someone for their posting. I am guessing that he's pinnacleflash and he's mad at me for disagreeing with him in the other threads and is now trying to get me banned just like him as a result.

NONE of what he's saying is true he's making it all up. The dude is :crazy:

I post on one other forum and the only persons who know that is pinnacleflash and JB. Now he's trying to say that I'm some troll from another forum in which I don't even have an account. I mean seriously you guys have read enough of my posts to know that I have NO reason whatsoever to troll another forum. I seriously feel pity for that guy.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 05:07 PM
Dude.... LITERALLY, no one cares. You continue to be off topic, you have not said one relevant thing related to basketball since you've been on here, and I don't give a crap what happens on some other website. The dude has 7,000 posts and has been a decent poster. Do I care where he gets his info from? No, I do not. You've been here for all of two seconds and I can't stand you. Either stay on topic, or do not post at all...

This is on-topic, he thinks his little list that his little buddies made on another site is some sort of basketball bible. He does nothing but jack opinions from those guys because he can't form those opinions himself. This is on-topic because if he is going to go ahead and bring up a different forum then I am going to do the same. Tell him to keep his mouth shut about other forums and I will too. He is a parasite that cannot think for himself.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 05:08 PM
I can't believe you guys are believing him. He is a crazy person. I seriously am at a lost for words that a human being spends his time randomly hating on someone for their posting. I am guessing that he's pinnacleflash and he's mad at me for disagreeing with him in the other threads and is now trying to get me banned just like him as a result.

NONE of what he's saying is true he's making it all up. The dude is :crazy:

I post on one other forum and the only persons who know that is pinnacleflash and JB. Now he's trying to say that I'm some troll from another forum in which I don't even have an account. I mean seriously you guys have read enough of my posts to know that I have NO reason whatsoever to troll another forum. I seriously feel pity for that guy.
Sure, whatever you say.

We all know you are BlackJoker23 and Dwade305 on another site. It's hilarious because you guys are ALWAYS online at the same time and you ALWAYS post during the same time. Maybe you should hide your online status here like you do on the other site.

Go ahead and continue trolling as I continue to expose who you are on these other sites.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 05:09 PM
BigDiesel, cut the crap. If you have a problem with a user PM an admin or mod. Stop baiting.

I'm quite certain that if you guys do an IP sweep that you'd find that he has a dupe account. From what I saw from his posting history its something which he is known for. Do you guys really think I have time to waste trolling other forums? On top of that if I was a troll how would this random poster who just returned after 2 years know my name? Is he miss cleo can he see things that most humans can't. He's clearly a poster with duplicate accounts that has a vendetta against me and is trying to get me banned.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 05:13 PM
I'm quite certain that if you guys do an IP sweep that you'd find that he has a dupe account. From what I saw from his posting history its something which he is known for. Do you guys really think I have time to waste trolling other forums? On top of that if I was a troll how would this random poster who just returned after 2 years know my name? Is he miss cleo can he see things that most humans can't. He's clearly a poster with duplicate accounts that has a vendetta against me and is trying to get me banned.
I know you won't get banned here because you are trolling and making a fool out of yourself on another site, a site that PSD is not responsible for you. Go ahead check my IPs, check whatever.

I'm just exposing the truth about you. How you can't form an opinion to save your life and how you think and act like a 12 year old kid. How you have to troll on another site because you are bored and you have nothing better to do. I guarantee you are personally attacking or planning on personally attacking a poster right now on that site.

Do I care if you get banned here? Nah because I know you won't. I just want the truth about you to be exposed becuase you are nothing more than a parasite.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 05:18 PM
To the mods isn't it ironic that right after Pinacleflash was banned for a week BigDeasel32 returned after a 2 year hiatus and with his first post back he chooses attacks me in the very same thread where pinnacleflash and I were having a debate in which I decided not to take very far since pinnacle is a known troll?

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/search.php?searchid=19846716
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653500

The guy has a clear agenda. Since returning all he has done is attempt to tarnish my name (who gives a crap about a name on an online forum) and get me to say something in which I would receive a ban for. He's baiting and trolling.

BigDiesel32
10-03-2011, 05:21 PM
The guy has a clear agenda. Since returning all he has done is attempt to tarnish my name (who gives a crap about a name on an online forum) and get me to say something in which I would receive a ban for. He's baiting and trolling.
I'm not baiting nor am I trolling. I am just exposing the truth about you. Do I have an agenda against you? Sure, why shouldn't I have an agenda against a guy who does nothing but personally attack others and calls everyone a phagget on another site? A site that I am a regular in? Why shouldn't I have an agenda against a guy that acts like he is the smartest on this site when all he does is steal opinions from other people on another site? You aren't able to do a thing that I wasn't able to do when I was 12. I don't know how old you are now and I don't really care, all I know is that you are a parasite and your credibility/opinion should not be taken seriously.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 05:37 PM
how?

and I never said Duncan doesnt deserves his MVPs, except the 05 Finals MVP maybe

In 05 Shaq had a strong case in Miami as well, he was still the best C in the NBA and was as dominant as ever, his team record hurt him a bit though. Kobe didn't receive a single MVP vote that season he missed a great deal of games due to injury and also his team record wasn't very good.

In 06 LeBron had a better season and his team had the better record, his team had the 4th seed while Kobe's was the 7th. LeBron was more deserving of that MVP than was Kobe. I also think Dirk had just as strong a case as Kobe and Nash for the MVP.

Also your implication of saying since Nash didn't deserve those MVPs someone else did led me to believe you thought Kobe was more deserving to which I'll say that there where times when TD lost that a much stronger argument could have been made that he deserved the award than any of those that can be made for Kobe.

Kobes a Killer
10-03-2011, 06:09 PM
In 05 Shaq had a strong case in Miami as well, he was still the best C in the NBA and was as dominant as ever, his team record hurt him a bit though. Kobe didn't receive a single MVP vote that season he missed a great deal of games due to injury and also his team record wasn't very good.

In 06 LeBron had a better season and his team had the better record, his team had the 4th seed while Kobe's was the 7th. LeBron was more deserving of that MVP than was Kobe. I also think Dirk had just as strong a case as Kobe and Nash for the MVP.

Also your implication of saying since Nash didn't deserve those MVPs someone else did led me to believe you thought Kobe was more deserving to which I'll say that there where times when TD lost that a much stronger argument could have been made that he deserved the award than any of those that can be made for Kobe.

Kobe deserved the 05-06 MVP, he brought a bunch of players who aren't even in the NBA anymore to the playoffs in the western conference. He avg 35 ppg 5 and 5. First player to avg 35 since Jordan, 40 ppg in Jan or Feb can't remember, the 81 point game, 61 against Dallas in 3 quarters. Hate him or love him you have to admit he was simply amazing that season. Now that I think of it that might be the 04-05 season but I don't think so, and I don't wanna google on my iPhone. Lebron had the better team that year and he only managed to bring them to the 4th seed in what was a weak conference that year. Kobe got robbed of that MVP

juno10
10-03-2011, 06:14 PM
Kobe deserved the 05-06 MVP, he brought a bunch of players who aren't even in the NBA anymore to the playoffs in the western conference. He avg 35 ppg 5 and 5. First player to avg 35 since Jordan, 40 ppg in Jan or Feb can't remember, the 81 point game, 61 against Dallas in 3 quarters. Hate him or love him you have to admit he was simply amazing that season. Now that I think of it that might be the 04-05 season but I don't think so, and I don't wanna google on my iPhone. Lebron had the better team that year and he only managed to bring them to the 4th seed in what was a weak conference that year. Kobe got robbed of that MVP

i actually agree with you here, i wish mvp was awarded to the players by definition, kobe was most valuable that year, as paul was on 08 and dwight was this year.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Kobe deserved the 05-06 MVP, he brought a bunch of players who aren't even in the NBA anymore to the playoffs in the western conference. He avg 35 ppg 5 and 5. First player to avg 35 since Jordan, 40 ppg in Jan or Feb can't remember, the 81 point game, 61 against Dallas in 3 quarters. Hate him or love him you have to admit he was simply amazing that season. Now that I think of it that might be the 04-05 season but I don't think so, and I don't wanna google on my iPhone. Lebron had the better team that year and he only managed to bring them to the 4th seed in what was a weak conference that year. Kobe got robbed of that MVP

Honestly I can hear the argument for Kobe that year, but not 05. I would fully admit that Kobe was on a whole other level but his team record hurt him too much for him to get serious consideration. I think in comparison to LeBron's cast can we really say that Kobe's was that much worst? Given that they played in different conferences. I'd listen to an argument for 06 but I really don't think the biggest Kobe homer would say he deserved one in 05.

KnicksorBust
10-03-2011, 06:37 PM
Honestly I can hear the argument for Kobe that year, but not 05. I would fully admit that Kobe was on a whole other level but his team record hurt him too much for him to get serious consideration. I think in comparison to LeBron's cast can we really say that Kobe's was that much worst? Given that they played in different conferences. I'd listen to an argument for 06 but I really don't think the biggest Kobe homer would say he deserved one in 05.

YES! Easily we can. What Kobe did in 05 and Wade did in 09 were legendary seasons of carrying teams to the playoffs.

LeBron had:
Hughes
Gooden
Big Z
Snow
Marshall/Varejeo

Kobe had:
Odom
Smush
Mihm
Cook
Kwame

It's not even close. Hughes-Gooden-Big Z would have been #2 options to Kobe in L.A. and the fall-off from Odom to Smush is terrifying. His 3rd best player had no business starting in the league and that was proven within 2 years.

Swashcuff
10-03-2011, 06:54 PM
YES! Easily we can. What Kobe did in 05 and Wade did in 09 were legendary seasons of carrying teams to the playoffs.

LeBron had:
Hughes
Gooden
Big Z
Snow
Marshall/Varejeo

Kobe had:
Odom
Smush
Mihm
Cook
Kwame

It's not even close. Hughes-Gooden-Big Z would have been #2 options to Kobe in L.A. and the fall-off from Odom to Smush is terrifying. His 3rd best player had no business starting in the league and that was proven within 2 years.

:laugh:

Fair enough, IMO that Lamar Odom was marginally better than Zyrundas Illgauskas was that season though I can see an argument for Illgauskas being better. In terms of depth their is no question that LeBron had more but at the very same time. We also have to remember that Larry Hughes missed more games than he actually played. In all honesty I'd rather have Smush Parker :facepalm: for 82 games than that version of Larry Hughes for 36.

Also I don't think the combination of Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall and 2nd year Anderson Verejao is much better than that Brain Cook, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown.

That's why I said if its that far off. I agree that LeBron's was better but not by a very large margin if you ask me. As I said earlier however LeBron did play in the East while Kobe played in the West which of course should make his job harder by default.

NYKNYGNYY
10-03-2011, 07:06 PM
lebron hasnt been in the leauge the whole decade so that gives it to kobe hes been unbelivable

NYKNYGNYY
10-03-2011, 07:08 PM
kobe
duncan
shaq
lebron
iverson
garnett
dirk
mcgrady
nash
peirce

imo

Stack_NJNets
10-03-2011, 07:28 PM
Td

Cal827
10-03-2011, 07:34 PM
I voted Kobe (as a mentioned before) I am quite surprised KG isn't mentioned a lot by other posters. I mean yes his number have dropped off in the past two years, but from 99-2000 on he averaged 22-10-6-1-2 while shooting about 50% from the field, carrying those Minnesota teams where he got little support. Usually somebody look past the lack of titles. If one does, then I think KG>Iverson or Lebron.

Andrew32
10-03-2011, 07:35 PM
Kobe deserved the 05-06 MVP, he brought a bunch of players who aren't even in the NBA anymore to the playoffs in the western conference.

I dont see why his 06 season was so special.

He set records like total FGA's and USG% and had a bunch of high scoring games "mostly against -.500 Teams"

It might have been a more unique season had he led them somewhere in the playoffs especially since it was the West (weak year though)

But you also have to take into account that 06 was the "Peak" Hand Check season and you saw a bunch of players set Career highs in
Volume + Efficiency and the total # of 40 points games tripled compared to all the years before and after it. You couldnt be within 3 feet of a offensive player that year or you'd get whistled for the foul.

I think TMacs 03 Season was more impressive, he had better all around production shot better from the field and 3pt range had far more WShares (especially offensively) and basically accomplished the same thing Kobe did but with a much worse Cast. TMacs 03 Cast makes Kobes 06 Cast look like Russells Celtics thats how bad they were. He also had that season before hand checking which makes it alot more impressive.

Lebron also led Casts which were only slightly worse to the Finals and certainly much further then the 1st round.

pedrofan45
10-03-2011, 07:37 PM
Tim Duncan

Kobe/Homer Thread

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 07:38 PM
I dont see why his 06 season was so special.

He set records like total FGA's and USG% and had a bunch of high scoring games "mostly against -.500 Teams"

It might have been a more unique season had he led them somewhere in the playoffs especially since it was the West (weak year though)

But you also have to take into account that 06 was the "Peak" Hand Check season and you saw a bunch of players set Career highs in
Volume + Efficiency and the total # of 40 points games tripled compared to all the years before and after it. You couldnt be within 3 feet of a offensive player that year or you'd get whistled for the foul.

I think TMacs 03 Season was more impressive, he had better all around production shot better from the field and 3pt range had far more WShares (especially offensively) and basically accomplished the same thing Kobe did but with a much worse Cast. TMacs 03 Cast makes Kobes 06 Cast look like Russells Celtics thats how bad they were. He also had that season before hand checking which makes it alot more impressive.

5th player to ever average 35 PPG for a season, First time since 1986-87
7 50 point games
2 60 point games
81 point game
62 in 3 (Outscored Mavs 62-61)
averaged 43 PPG in January

Andrew32
10-03-2011, 07:43 PM
All Around Production > PPG

I'd rather have TMac's 03 Season 3
30 PER (33/6.5/5.5) on higher shooting %'s.

Kobe had less all around production, shot worse from the Field and 3PT Range and had a much lower PER and less WShares. + Kobe had his season at the Peak of the Hand-Check BS while TMac did his before the rule changes.. its really nice that close.

Der but 35 is the highest number.. its the best!! xP

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 07:48 PM
All Around Production > PPG

I'd rather have TMac's 03 Season 3
30 PER (33/6.5/5.5) on higher shooting %'s.

Kobe had less all around production, shot worse from the Field and 3PT Range and had a much lower PER and less WShares. + Kobe had his season at the Peak of the Hand-Check BS while TMac did his before the rule changes.. its really nice that close.

Der but 35 is the highest number.. its the best!! xP

T-Mac has 4 50 point games and 1 60 point game in his whole career
Kobe had 7 50 point games and 2 60 point games in the 2005-06 season, T-Macs career high was 62, Kobe did that in 33 minutes in 2005-06
just saying

Andrew32
10-03-2011, 07:53 PM
So what?

I judge a player's RS by the entire season not by what he did in a few random games.

I think it was harder for wing players to score in general in 03 compared to 06 and I dont put alot of extra value on a few scoring streaks that came mostly against the weaker teams in the league.

I mean he must have had a bunch of low scoring games at some point also because in the end he didn't have a huge edge in overall volume.

Mavericks had poor perimeter defense in 06 combined with the Hand Checking that season I bet Kobe could have dropped 100 on them.

It was very rare to get into the 30 PER Club for SG's especially b4 the new rules.

But yea I judge a RS by the entire body of work not just a few random games and TMacs "entire season" was better. Maybe Kobe had the best "game" between the two seasons but that doesnt matter in my opinion because we are comparing entire seasons not individual games.

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 07:56 PM
Kobe averaged 30.0 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 5.9 APG in 2002-03, with Shaq on his team
Imagine if Shaq wasnt there, when Shaq did miss a couple of games, Kobe scored 40+ points in 9 straight games

Andrew32
10-03-2011, 07:59 PM
Kobe was amazing in 03, probably one of his best seasons and I think it was better then his 06 season.

Yea they also had a terrible record with Shaq out in the early 00's and I dont think they did very well without him in 03 either.

If Shaq wasnt there they would have missed the playoffs or lost in the 1st round.

justinnum1
10-03-2011, 08:01 PM
Wade

knightstemplar
10-03-2011, 08:02 PM
Kobe was amazing in 03, probably one of his best seasons and I think it was better then his 06 season.

Yea they also had a terrible record with Shaq out in the early 00's and I dont think they did very well without him in 03 either.

You can make a case for that since he did that while sharing it with Shaq
but Kobe's 2006-07 season is up there to as his best
2 60 points games
10 50 points games
4 straight 50pt game streak
31.6 PPG on 22.8 shots, more efficient

Lakers + Giants
10-03-2011, 08:11 PM
I'll take kobe, duncan,shaq. Any one of those 3. . .

Lakersfan2483
10-03-2011, 08:25 PM
Shaq was the best for almost half the decade, however in terms of longevity and playing at an elite level the entire time, Kobe gets the nod, with Tim being a close second.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-03-2011, 08:33 PM
I voted Kobe (as a mentioned before) I am quite surprised KG isn't mentioned a lot by other posters. I mean yes his number have dropped off in the past two years, but from 99-2000 on he averaged 22-10-6-1-2 while shooting about 50% from the field, carrying those Minnesota teams where he got little support. Usually somebody look past the lack of titles. If one does, then I think KG>Iverson or Lebron.

The lack of supporting cast/success that KG had compared to the TD, Shaq, Kobe is what kills it for me, nothing against him but if we are talking about a player that is the best of a decade, KG did not win a ring in his prime while all these other players did. As much as I love KG he couldn't have done it without 2 other Hall of Famers (and Rondo/Perk)

Andrew32
10-03-2011, 08:35 PM
Eh... KG had pretty weak supporting Casts until he Joined the Celtics.

I think its unfair to use "Team Success" against him in this Comparison.

He was arguably the playoff MVP in 08 the year they won and that was a past his prime KG.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-03-2011, 08:38 PM
Eh... KG had pretty weak supporting Casts until he Joined the Celtics.

I think its unfair to use "Team Success" against him in this Comparison.

He was arguably the playoff MVP in 08 the year they won and that was a past his prime KG.

Agree with your post, IMO he was the finals MVP that year easily, he was the anchor in that defense even his PER was much better than Truths

Cal827
10-03-2011, 10:33 PM
Eh... KG had pretty weak supporting Casts until he Joined the Celtics.

I think its unfair to use "Team Success" against him in this Comparison.

He was arguably the playoff MVP in 08 the year they won and that was a past his prime KG.

That's why I'm baffled that he only got two votes... was excellent till about 2009, and I would think he would get votes... I mean maybe Lebron is about as good as him, but there's no way that AI should have more votes than him at this point IMO, he was a good player, but he mainly scored points (and not exactly efficient at times). Garnett was the better player all around.

Kobes a Killer
10-04-2011, 01:26 AM
T-Mac has 4 50 point games and 1 60 point game in his whole career
Kobe had 7 50 point games and 2 60 point games in the 2005-06 season, T-Macs career high was 62, Kobe did that in 33 minutes in 2005-06
just saying

Lol holy crap, man I love Kobe

Baller1
10-04-2011, 01:54 PM
If we're looking solely at the "best player", putting accolades and winning aside, the list would look like this:

1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. Kobe
5. T-Mac
6. Garnett

kdspurman
10-04-2011, 02:04 PM
If we're looking solely at the "best player", putting accolades and winning aside, the list would look like this:

1. Lebron
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. Kobe
5. T-Mac
6. Garnett

This list is painful... :confused:

beasted86
10-04-2011, 02:10 PM
Duncan.

3 championships as the #1 guy
10 out of 10 playoff appearances
2 MVPs

Nobody else has that. Kobe is close 2nd, Shaq 3rd. Both missed a playoffs, and both only have 1 MVP.

beasted86
10-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Kobe averaged 30.0 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 5.9 APG in 2002-03, with Shaq on his team
Imagine if Shaq wasnt there, when Shaq did miss a couple of games, Kobe scored 40+ points in 9 straight games

Is it just a coincidence or is there any correlation to the Lakers no longer being good enough to win the championship when Kobe finally became the team's leading scorer from 2002-2004?

nickdymez
10-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq

That order for me... Duncan over the last couple years isnt even the best player on his team.. I feel he's declined a lot physically... Kobe is still strong, not at all prime, but strong..

nickdymez
10-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Is it just a coincidence or is there any correlation to the Lakers no longer being good enough to win the championship when Kobe finally became the team's leading scorer from 2002-2004?

The lakers were a terrible team then.. Kobe is great, but he cant make miracles happen.. New coach, new system, new players...

beasted86
10-04-2011, 02:37 PM
The lakers were a terrible team then.. Kobe is great, but he cant make miracles happen.. New coach, new system, new players...

What are you talking about?

Same coach, same system, same players. They lost in 2002-2003 with essentially the same exact team that won the title the year before. They then went out over the summer and replaced Robert Horry with Karl Malone & Gary Payton without losing anyone else in the main rotation for 2003-2004. That's an upgrade no matter how you want to look at it. Whether Phil mismanaged the lineup and put Payton as a starter instead of leaving Fisher in the lineup or whatever else is besides the point. They had the same players and only added to them, but still lost.

The difference between 1999-2002, and 2002-2004 is they won with Shaq as the #1 guy in the early years, and in the later years Kobe was the leading scorer instead of Shaq in both the regular season & playoffs and they lost.

I'm not saying Kobe being #1 was the only reason they lost, but it has to be a factor.

Evolution23
10-04-2011, 02:53 PM
It was close between Duncan and Kobe. But I chose Kobe because he still has more rings.

RevisIsland
10-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Gotta give it to Kobe, Shaq and Duncan tailed off a bit too much towards the end.

nickdymez
10-04-2011, 03:46 PM
What are you talking about?

Same coach, same system, same players. They lost in 2002-2003 with essentially the same exact team that won the title the year before. They then went out over the summer and replaced Robert Horry with Karl Malone & Gary Payton without losing anyone else in the main rotation for 2003-2004. That's an upgrade no matter how you want to look at it. Whether Phil mismanaged the lineup and put Payton as a starter instead of leaving Fisher in the lineup or whatever else is besides the point. They had the same players and only added to them, but still lost.

The difference between 1999-2002, and 2002-2004 is they won with Shaq as the #1 guy in the early years, and in the later years Kobe was the leading scorer instead of Shaq in both the regular season & playoffs and they lost.

I'm not saying Kobe being #1 was the only reason they lost, but it has to be a factor.

My bad, i read your post wrong in regards to the years. But still, Kobe has been the leading scorer on his team for some time now and they have 2 championships and 3 finals appearances...

ewmania
10-04-2011, 04:35 PM
hm tough one, all 3 have been dominate... but im just going by decade rings

#1 kobe - 5
#2 shaq - 4
#3 duncan - 3

tim won his first ring in 99' and that doesnt count for the decade

but you can't go wrong with either, but thats my other of top 3

B'sCeltsPatsSox
10-04-2011, 04:36 PM
Timmy Duncan.

Swashcuff
10-04-2011, 04:41 PM
hm tough one, all 3 have been dominate... but im just going by decade rings

#1 kobe - 5
#2 shaq - 4
#3 duncan - 3

tim won his first ring in 99' and that doesnt count for the decade

but you can't go wrong with either, but thats my other of top 3

you do realize that from 99-00 to 09-10 is not a decade but rather 11 seasons right? If we're going based on a decade then Shaq and TD are equals and Kobe has one less.

ewmania
10-04-2011, 04:53 PM
you do realize that from 99-00 to 09-10 is not a decade but rather 11 seasons right? If we're going based on a decade then Shaq and TD are equals and Kobe has one less.

it stated from 00' to 10... kobe won his last one in 2010 and his first one in 2000

5 all together... duncan 3, shaq 4

no matter how you cut it, it is what it is, im going by what i see in the topic thread

ewmania
10-04-2011, 05:01 PM
What are you talking about?

Same coach, same system, same players. They lost in 2002-2003 with essentially the same exact team that won the title the year before. They then went out over the summer and replaced Robert Horry with Karl Malone & Gary Payton without losing anyone else in the main rotation for 2003-2004. That's an upgrade no matter how you want to look at it. Whether Phil mismanaged the lineup and put Payton as a starter instead of leaving Fisher in the lineup or whatever else is besides the point. They had the same players and only added to them, but still lost.

The difference between 1999-2002, and 2002-2004 is they won with Shaq as the #1 guy in the early years, and in the later years Kobe was the leading scorer instead of Shaq in both the regular season & playoffs and they lost.

I'm not saying Kobe being #1 was the only reason they lost, but it has to be a factor.

okay and the bulls lost to the magic in 95' semi round in the playoffs when he cameback does that mean jordan wasn't the number 1 player in the 90s

shaq was getting extremely lazy during that period and him and kobe's issues was growing stronger. neither one of them wanted to play together and chemisty plays a big part

Swashcuff
10-04-2011, 05:25 PM
it stated from 00' to 10... kobe won his last one in 2010 and his first one in 2000

5 all together... duncan 3, shaq 4

no matter how you cut it, it is what it is, im going by what i see in the topic thread

If you were going by the topic of the thread then you're not talking about a decade you're talking about an 11 year span. At least going based of what the OP stipulated.

Law25
10-04-2011, 05:55 PM
Is it just a coincidence or is there any correlation to the Lakers no longer being good enough to win the championship when Kobe finally became the team's leading scorer from 2002-2004?

You have to factor in thats those werent Kobe teams. Those were devided locker rooms. I cant be the only one who notice how reluctant most players were to follow Kobe the begining of the 03 season when Shaq had i believe big toe problems. I mean most games they didnt even try on defense. It was like they felt by riding with Kobe they would be taking him over Shaq and thats why the team suffered. It wasnt like the media tried to spin it like Kobe was trying to prove he's the man( im sure that played into it alittle). It was more of the team for the majority was making it known they were riding with Shaq. It wasnt until i believe January when Phil made it clear Kobe was the guy for the moment and Kobe went crazy with his game and the team followed until Shaqs return. I know many choose to go with the negative media propaganda thats plagued him for the most part of his career but i choose to look deeper. No one WHO WATCHED those games can honestly say the team played for him the way they did for Shaq. 03 despite Kobes numbers was Shaqs team. 04 was also Shaqs team proven by the old vets aquired and structure of the team.

Oh i chose Kobe becuase of sustained greatness. Also i like his raw stas better.

smith&wesson
10-04-2011, 06:31 PM
What are you talking about?

Same coach, same system, same players. They lost in 2002-2003 with essentially the same exact team that won the title the year before. They then went out over the summer and replaced Robert Horry with Karl Malone & Gary Payton without losing anyone else in the main rotation for 2003-2004. That's an upgrade no matter how you want to look at it. Whether Phil mismanaged the lineup and put Payton as a starter instead of leaving Fisher in the lineup or whatever else is besides the point. They had the same players and only added to them, but still lost.

The difference between 1999-2002, and 2002-2004 is they won with Shaq as the #1 guy in the early years, and in the later years Kobe was the leading scorer instead of Shaq in both the regular season & playoffs and they lost.

I'm not saying Kobe being #1 was the only reason they lost, but it has to be a factor.

They tried to buy a ship buy adding malone and payton. obviously they needed time to mesh and couldnt get it done in one season. much like the heat now. that lakers team was disassembled after that one season so you dont know what could have been if they kept them together.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 04:58 PM
Dirk is the only one that actually helped his franchise.
the others all went to already GREAT teams. Bryant went to the Lakers, nuff said, Duncan went to the Great veteran led Spurs.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Damn...Wade gets no love around here AGAIN.

Anyways... this has to be KOBE IMO only because Lebron and Wade didn't come in until '03.

I'd go:

1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Wade
5. Shaq

Andrew32
10-05-2011, 06:27 PM
Damn...Wade gets no love around here AGAIN.

Anyways... this has to be KOBE IMO only because Lebron and Wade didn't come in until '03.

I'd go:

1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Wade
5. Shaq

Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> Kobe 00-09 (4 Titles 1FMVP)
Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> DWade 04-09 (1 Title 1FMVP)
Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> Lebron 04-09 (0 Title 0FMVP)

I dont even judge players based on Titles but Shaq has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of Kobe's 10 Seasons and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

He has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of DWades 6 Years and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

He has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of Lebrons 6 Years except maybe 09 and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

What a sad hater ranking Lebron and Wade over Shaq... jeezus.

Ranking Kobe ahead of him is slightly less asinine but still ridiculous.

Shaq and Duncan are the clear cut #1 and #2 and then everyone else comes in way down the line.

knightstemplar
10-05-2011, 07:55 PM
Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> Kobe 00-09 (4 Titles 1FMVP)
Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> DWade 04-09 (1 Title 1FMVP)
Shaq 00 - 05 (4 Titles 3FMVP) >>>>> Lebron 04-09 (0 Title 0FMVP)

I dont even judge players based on Titles but Shaq has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of Kobe's 10 Seasons and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

He has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of DWades 6 Years and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

He has 6 Years in the 00 Decade better then everyone of Lebrons 6 Years except maybe 09 and 4 years which are light years better (00-03).

What a sad hater ranking Lebron and Wade over Shaq... jeezus.

Ranking Kobe ahead of him is slightly less asinine but still ridiculous.

Shaq and Duncan are the clear cut #1 and #2 and then everyone else comes in way down the line.

lol

daleja424
10-05-2011, 07:58 PM
It is about what you did for the whole decade though. Shaq has been a shell of himself for more than half of this decade... which is why I have him lower. He was great from 2000-2002, but then he declined sharply.

Swashcuff
10-05-2011, 08:06 PM
It is about what you did for the whole decade though. Shaq has been a shell of himself for more than half of this decade... which is why I have him lower. He was great from 2000-2002, but then he declined sharply.

Wade wasn't even in the league to start the decade not to mention the fact that he wasn't even the best player in the league at any point of the past 11 years in the league. There is no possible way Wade deserves to go ahead of Shaq. None.

Andrew32
10-05-2011, 08:06 PM
So? I'd still take 04 and 05 Shaq (Pre-Injury) over any Lebron or Wade from 04-09

Even if you didnt Shaq still has 4 Seasons Significantly better then any of Lebron or Wades 6.

Kobe has a better argument since he played more seasons but I still dont think its reasonable to put him ahead of Duncan or Shaq.

And Kobe doesnt really have 10 Full Seasons, I'd detract 3, (00,04,05).

00 Kobe had barely surpassed Elite Roleplayer status, 04 Kobe was overweight and played poorly, 05 Kobe was injured/down year.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 08:10 PM
Wade wasn't even in the league to start the decade not to mention the fact that he wasn't even the best player in the league at any point of the past 11 years in the league. There is no possible way Wade deserves to go ahead of Shaq. None.

I can see Shaq being ahead of them... TD too... but on my personal list I don't remember the dominant shaq as much as I remember the shell of a player he became... so that is probably clouding my judgement on the issue.

Swashcuff
10-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Also how can anyone suggest that Wade should be ahead of Dirk? Dirk has managed to play on a 50+ win team in every season for the 11 years in which he has player has been one of the greatest playoff performers not only over that time span but in the history of the game he also has an MVP and a FMVP during that time.

Andrew32
10-05-2011, 08:16 PM
Also how can anyone suggest that Wade should be ahead of Dirk? Dirk has managed to play on a 50+ win team in every season for the 11 years in which he has player has been one of the greatest playoff performers not only over that time span but in the history of the game he also has an MVP and a FMVP during that time.

Just for a comparison look at these numbers.

Wade : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 29.4 / 4.8
Top 5 : 26.64 / 2.6
Top 7 : 24.5 / 2.2

Kobe : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 26.8 / 4.7
Top 5 : 24 / 2.5
Top 7 : 23 / 2.4

Wade is great.. if not for injury's and that he didnt start playing until 04 he might have a strong Case for #3 after Shaq/Duncan.

Swashcuff
10-05-2011, 08:19 PM
I can see Shaq being ahead of them... TD too... but on my personal list I don't remember the dominant shaq as much as I remember the shell of a player he became... so that is probably clouding my judgement on the issue.

Know what's funny with this logic? Shaq has more WS during that same period than Wade and LeBron, with and inferior PER to LeBron but equal (actualy a decimal point better) than Wade. He also managed despite his down years to have a higher WS/48 accumulation than Wade but not LeBron. As well as scoring more points and at a more efficient rate than Dwyane Wade.

Point being despite Shaq's down years his dominance at the begging of this time span and continuation of solid play when healthy has helped him greatly. I mean despite the fact that he had such a downward spiral he still ranks higher than Wade and LeBron in multiple categories.

Shaq still dominated so much to start the decade that he made up for where we saw his decline. Same as TD. I see NO possible argument I mean absolutely none from no standpoint to put the LeBron or Wade ahead of Duncan.

Swashcuff
10-05-2011, 08:21 PM
Just for a comparison look at these numbers.

Wade : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 29.4 / 4.8
Top 5 : 26.64 / 2.6
Top 7 : 24.5 / 2.2

Kobe : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 26.8 / 4.7
Top 5 : 24 / 2.5
Top 7 : 23 / 2.4

Wade is great.. if not for injury's and that he didnt start playing until 04 he might have a strong Case for #3 after Shaq/Duncan.

No.

Kobe is the only player who has managed to stay an All-NBA calibre player during this entire time span. No way Wade or LeBron has a case ahead of him.

naps
10-05-2011, 08:27 PM
Just for a comparison look at these numbers.

Wade : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 29.4 / 4.8
Top 5 : 26.64 / 2.6
Top 7 : 24.5 / 2.2

Kobe : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 26.8 / 4.7
Top 5 : 24 / 2.5
Top 7 : 23 / 2.4

Wade is great.. if not for injury's and that he didnt start playing until 04 he might have a strong Case for #3 after Shaq/Duncan.


Man, Wade never gets any respect here at all. His took his young team in the Conf semi as a rookie, lost in ECF game 7 as a sophomore (He was injured in the ECF game 6 and 7 I believe), won the championship in his 3rd year. Then Miami Heat became irrelevant in the league for 4 years with bunch of D-leaguers and Wade, the rebuilding process. Then again he was in the finals in 2011 when he had a strong again. Now imagine if he had strong supporting casts from 06 to 10, God knows what would have happened.

Andrew32
10-05-2011, 08:31 PM
I agree, Wade clearly outproduces Kobe and has already had the best RS (09) and PS (06) of the two greats.

I dont understand why some people dont acknowledge his game/greatness.

When its all said and done he may surpass him.

gfdjklgfbk
10-05-2011, 08:51 PM
welcome to: **************************

The website wholesale for many kinds of fashion shoes, like the nike,jordan,prada,****, also including the jeans,shirts,bags,hat and the decorations. All the products are free shipping, and the the price is competitive, and also can accept the paypal payment.,after the payment, can ship within short time.


free shipping

competitive price

any size available

accept the paypal

**************************

jordan shoes $32

nike shox $32

Christan Audigier bikini $23

Ed Hardy Bikini $23

Smful short_t-shirt_woman $15

ed hardy short_tank_woman $16

Sandal $32

christian louboutin $80

Sunglass $15

COACH_Necklace $27

handbag $33

AF tank woman $17

puma slipper woman $30

**************************

Nyc4You
10-05-2011, 08:58 PM
why would you even put up paul pierce. he didn't win anything till he got kg and ray allen.

Nyc4You
10-05-2011, 08:59 PM
i think for you to be a player of the decade you need to have won at least 1 mvp/ be in the mvp race year in and year out

knightstemplar
10-06-2011, 12:39 AM
can we move on to #2?

knightstemplar
10-06-2011, 12:44 AM
Just for a comparison look at these numbers.

Wade : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 29.4 / 4.8
Top 5 : 26.64 / 2.6
Top 7 : 24.5 / 2.2

Kobe : Post Season - PER / WShares
Peak : 26.8 / 4.7
Top 5 : 24 / 2.5
Top 7 : 23 / 2.4

Wade is great.. if not for injury's and that he didnt start playing until 04 he might have a strong Case for #3 after Shaq/Duncan.

Wade's best postseasons
2006 - 28.4/6/6 - Championship
2011 - 24.5/7/4 - Finals

Kobe's best postseasons
2009 - 30.2/5/6 - Championship
2008 - 30.1/6/6 - Finals
2001 - 29.4/7/6 - Championship
2010 - 29.2/6/6 - Championship
2002 - 26.6/6/5 - Championship


Wade's best regular seasons
2009 - 30.2/5/8
2007 - 27.4/5/8
2006 - 27.2/6/7

Kobe's best regular seasons
2006 - 35.4/5/5
2007 - 31.6/6/5
2003 - 30/7/6
2001 - 28.5/6/5
2008 - 28.3/6/5

Championships
Kobe - 5
Wade - 1

tredigs
10-06-2011, 08:55 AM
Wade's best postseasons
2006 - 28.4/6/6 - Championship
2011 - 24.5/7/4 - Finals

Kobe's best postseasons
2009 - 30.2/5/6 - Championship
2008 - 30.1/6/6 - Finals
2001 - 29.4/7/6 - Championship
2010 - 29.2/6/6 - Championship
2002 - 26.6/6/5 - Championship


Wade's best regular seasons
2009 - 30.2/5/8
2007 - 27.4/5/8
2006 - 27.2/6/7

Kobe's best regular seasons
2006 - 35.4/5/5
2007 - 31.6/6/5
2003 - 30/7/6
2001 - 28.5/6/5
2008 - 28.3/6/5

Championships
Kobe - 5
Wade - 1

Impressive PER-GAME numbers, but two more for context:

Kobe's # of seasons - 15 (majority accompanied with incredible top tier casts).

Wade's # of seasons - 8 (majority accompanied with dog ****)

Ill21
10-06-2011, 09:50 AM
Kobe or Duncan. It really is a complete toss up. I voted Kobe just because he is my favorite non-knick.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2011, 07:55 PM
Impressive PER-GAME numbers, but two more for context:

Kobe's # of seasons - 15 (majority accompanied with incredible top tier casts).

Wade's # of seasons - 8 (majority accompanied with dog ****)

Clearly Kobe has an edge playing 15 seasons in one decade. Impressive numbers to say the least.

KnicksorBust
10-07-2011, 07:57 PM
Oh and if anything "BigDiesel" you are doing him a favor here. You are off the charts annoying, thereby making him the defacto "hero" in this nonsense and more likable. :)

Cal827
10-08-2011, 01:13 AM
can we move on to #2?

I think the OP was banned for something.. so someone else is gonna have to continue.. although I'm pretty sure that number 2 and 3 are gonna be Duncan and Shaq Respectively (Unless the Droves of Lakers fans who voted for Kobe last time go to Shaq next).

PinnacleFlash
10-09-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm back and it looks like Kobe won this. Next thread of PSD's Official #2 player of the 00 decade will start now.

Oh and Swashcuff has been officially banned from this discussion. His vote will no longer count and I will ignore him as everyone else should. If I find out anybody else trolls and does nothing but personally attack others on site then they will be banned too. Since Swashcuff is the only one that I know that does that and he was the one attacking me all this time on the other site, he is done.


Please close this thread.

BULLSFAN0810
10-09-2011, 06:39 PM
K, LETS BE REAL........THE BEST PLAYER HANDAS DWN 00-10 HAS TO BE SHAQ. ANYONE WHO THNKS DUNCAN WHO COULDNT SCORE ON SHAQ , COULDnt OUT REBOUND AND HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT THAN SHAQ IS BETTER THAN SHAQ??...MY FRIEND YOU MUST BE UNDER 15. BC BASICALLY THE QUESTION IS ASKING "AFTER MJ , WHO WAS THE MAN IN THE NBA. AND NOBODY DOMINATED LIKE SHAQ...THERE WAS GRANT HILL, TMAC( WHO IN HIS PRIME HANDLED KOBE...EASILY) A.I, KARL mALONE WHO IS HANDS DWN BETTER THAN DUNCAN. DUNCAN IS THE RIK SMITS, BRAD DAUGHTERY OF BASKETBALL...VERY GOOD FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND PLAYERS..DunCAN IS BETTER DEFENSIVELY,BUT NONE OF THAT MATTERED Vs. SHAQ IMO...SHAQ IS BETTER THAN KAREEM...MAYBE