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View Full Version : Wade reminds David Stern. NBA players are "not your child"



dnewguy
10-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Wade shouted at commissioner David Stern during the lowlight of a tempestuous five-hour negotiation that nearly ended the proceedings prematurely. The talks produced no deal and could have created ill feelings stemming from the Wade incident. Stern holds grudges.


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/no_ball_movement_MVqLEVt8UYKRfpbTgddc6M


We all know how David Stern always look down on NBA players, well Wade wasn't having any of that. Word is, Stern pointed at D Wade but When Wade proceeded to put a beat-down on the old dude, Melo restrained him. Stern has to be thought a lesson, the NBA is no country for old man.

heyman321
10-01-2011, 11:57 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/no_ball_movement_MVqLEVt8UYKRfpbTgddc6M


We all know how David Stern always look down on NBA players, well Wade wasn't having any of that. Word is, he pointed at Wade but When Wade proceeded to put a beat-down on the old dude, Melo restrained him. Stern's have to be thought a lesson, the NBA is no country for old man.

Lol I love how you posted this as if it was a legitimate empowering of the players. It wasn't, just Wade being a baby.

DoMeFavors
10-01-2011, 11:59 AM
im willing to think this entire thing is overhyped and the media is making it out to be a huge fight that was probably a discussion.

gwrighter
10-01-2011, 12:02 PM
im willing to think this entire thing is overhyped and the media is making it out to be a huge fight that was probably a discussion.

exactly, we have no sense of actual context.

heyman321
10-01-2011, 12:12 PM
im willing to think this entire thing is overhyped and the media is making it out to be a huge fight that was probably a discussion.

Probably. Ric Bucher is always 100% wrong.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Its not stern's fault though.

llemon
10-01-2011, 12:46 PM
Its not stern's fault though.

What does that mean?

SteBO
10-01-2011, 01:06 PM
I understand where Wade is coming from, but I don't think he should've done that. Stern will hold a grudge against him during the season if/when it happens. By the way dnewguy, Wade never told Stern "NBA players aren't your children". It was between just him and David, not anyone else.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 01:11 PM
I cant beleive that wade said a couple of days ago that players are underpaid. What a joke, you make an exceedingly good living playing a childs game...boo-hoo :cry:

llemon
10-01-2011, 01:17 PM
I understand where Wade is coming from, but I don't think he should've done that. Stern will hold a grudge against him during the season if/when it happens. By the way dnewguy, Wade never told Stern "NBA players aren't your children". It was between just him and David, not anyone else.

Gotta say, SCREW STERN.

If he takes it out on Wade during the season, Wade should sue Stern.

Now THAT would be fun.

Rivera
10-01-2011, 01:20 PM
you know what...screw it great job d wade :clap:


stern is the worst commisioner of all 3 major sports

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 01:28 PM
Lol I love how you posted this as if it was a legitimate empowering of the players. It wasn't, just Wade being a baby.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Stern set the tone at the all-star game where, after a speech by Hunter, stating he was considering holding the players out from playing, threatened them by saying "he knows where all the bodies are buried, because he put them there".

Unless you are in the mafia, that is not how you do business.

From the start, Stern's behavior has been less as a mediator and more as a bully. If it were anyone else across the bargaining table than NBA players, would stern be pointing his finger at them and making demands? That's disrespectful, in the same manner you treat children, not grown men with families. Would Stern do that to an owner? You bet your life he wouldn't. It's obvious Stern was peeved at Wade for his comment that Superstars are underpaid.

On another note, all we ever hear about lately is that NBA players should be happy to get the money they do and should just take any offer and play. Really? How about you show up for work tomorrow and there's a lock on the door and your boss tells you "either we cut your pay in half, or there is no work for you". Everyone on these boards would go ape-sh##. And then after that, you would try to get more than what your boss is currently offering you.

P.S. Baseball players are the ones making all the $$$$$$$. No salary cap in baseball. No assurance of competitive balance between big markets and small markets. Yanks, with a 200 mil bank roll, are in the playoffs every year. Go smash their noses in it.

sep11ie
10-01-2011, 01:31 PM
This **** is all for publicity. We all know the NBA is as scripted as the WWE.

jiggin
10-01-2011, 01:38 PM
Dwayne wade is such a moron....he IS THEIR EMPLOYEE...which sorry, is almost the same. LOL

with every word out of a Miami heat player, the world is set back about 3 years in intelligence.

Sorry Wade, but you don't know business nor managing any aspect of it...so SHUT THE **** UP.

Do you want someone with a PHD in business telling you how to dribble and shoot? I don't think so...SO SHUT THE **** UP.

llemon
10-01-2011, 01:41 PM
Dwayne wade is such a moron....he IS THEIR EMPLOYEE...which sorry, is almost the same.

Actually, right now, he is not an employee of the NBA.

jiggin
10-01-2011, 01:42 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/no_ball_movement_MVqLEVt8UYKRfpbTgddc6M


We all know how David Stern always look down on NBA players, well Wade wasn't having any of that. Word is, he pointed at Wade but When Wade proceeded to put a beat-down on the old dude, Melo restrained him. Stern's have to be thought a lesson, the NBA is no country for old man.

he doesn't look down on them anymore than a CEO of a company looks down at the employees; which is what these players are...plain and simple.

It sucks to think you are so powerful, such the awesomeness you have convinced yourself (and your entourage) yet in the end find out you are just an employee like everyone else. Dwayne....the4 NBA fan base LOVES you for ****ing this possible last ditch effort up. You and your ego are the man....which I am sure you won't forget.

Saddest part; He probably thinks what he did was awesome and the right thing to do...can make up stupid, born that way I guess.

PS - The NBA commish office, ownership group and those running things behind the scenes for these 2 groups ARE IN CHARGE...not the players. Wade just ****ed up progress and caused more negative than positive...something an immature guy like him won't understand till it is explained to him like a child. So maybe his comments weren't to far off.....LOL

-Kobe24-TJ19-
10-01-2011, 01:42 PM
you know what...screw it great job d wade :clap:


stern is the worst commisioner of all 3 major sports

:facepalm:


What does that mean?

owners screwed themselves

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 01:43 PM
Dwayne wade is such a moron....he IS THEIR EMPLOYEE...which sorry, is almost the same. LOL

with every word out of a Miami heat player, the world is set back about 3 years in intelligence.

Sorry Wade, but you don't know business nor managing any aspect of it...so SHUT THE **** UP.

Do you want someone with a PHD in business telling you how to dribble and shoot? I don't think so...SO SHUT THE **** UP.

D'wade appreciates the subtle, yet intellectual, integrity of your argument.:facepalm:

jiggin
10-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Gotta say, SCREW STERN.

If he takes it out on Wade during the season, Wade should sue Stern.

Now THAT would be fun.

why? you reap what you so....you act like a douche and people will return the favore at some point...this isn't new, its a life lesson most learn as a little little child. apparently Wade is still that little little child that has not learned that yet...or he is such a ego maniac that he thinks he is untouchable.

He will end up with a horse head in his bed at some point...come on, you can't call out the top dog of the NBA and not think there will be fall out from it.

llemon
10-01-2011, 01:52 PM
why? you reap what you so....you act like a douche and people will return the favore at some point...this isn't new, its a life lesson most learn as a little little child. apparently Wade is still that little little child that has not learned that yet...or he is such a ego maniac that he thinks he is untouchable.

He will end up with a horse head in his bed at some point...come on, you can't call out the top dog of the NBA and not think there will be fall out from it.

Sorry, there are Labor Laws.

But you are right about Stern being a dog. But he's not the top dog. He's the owner's little poodle.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 01:52 PM
why? you reap what you so....you act like a douche and people will return the favore at some point...this isn't new, its a life lesson most learn as a little little child. apparently Wade is still that little little child that has not learned that yet...or he is such a ego maniac that he thinks he is untouchable.

He will end up with a horse head in his bed at some point...come on, you can't call out the top dog of the NBA and not think there will be fall out from it.

Sorry fellas, I'm out. When the intellectual thermo reaches sub-zero temperatures, rational debate becomes impossible.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 01:58 PM
From all reports Stern was acting like a condescending jerk, lecturing him, trying to bully the situation and Wade basically called him out on it. They said he also got mad and started calling him "David' as well. Later on Stern apologized.

I say good for Wade! These are supposed to be legit negotiation sessions, all that lecturing, threatening and posturing is completely uncalled for and counter productive...

justinnum1
10-01-2011, 02:00 PM
D'wade appreciates the subtle, yet intellectual, integrity of your argument.:facepalm:

dont bother with that troll

fadedmario
10-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Report: Wade Warned Stern Not To Point Finger, Stop Acting Like Child

Dwyane Wade "stood up for himself," a person with knowledge of the meeting said when he confronted David Stern, who was behaving with a tone and gestures the players took exception to.

According to two people familiar with the incident, Wade warned Stern not to point his finger and made reference to not being a child.

After the confrontation, union chief Billy Hunter and Stern met privately, seeking a way to calm nerves and preserve the rest of the negotiations.

THE GIPPER
10-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Report: Wade Warned Stern Not To Point Finger, Stop Acting Like Child

Dwyane Wade "stood up for himself," a person with knowledge of the meeting said when he confronted David Stern, who was behaving with a tone and gestures the players took exception to.

According to two people familiar with the incident, Wade warned Stern not to point his finger and made reference to not being a child.

After the confrontation, union chief Billy Hunter and Stern met privately, seeking a way to calm nerves and preserve the rest of the negotiations.

Where did you get this from?

RevisIsland
10-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Oh god, we're really not gonna have a basketball season are we?

fadedmario
10-01-2011, 02:29 PM
Where did you get this from?

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/32397186

It was at this point that Wade took exception to commissioner David Stern's tone and gesturing -- the commissioner evidently was pointing his finger while speaking to the players -- and "stood up for himself," a person with knowledge of the meeting said. According to two people familiar with the incident, Wade warned Stern not to point his finger and made reference to not being a child.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Stern set the tone at the all-star game where, after a speech by Hunter, stating he was considering holding the players out from playing, threatened them by saying "he knows where all the bodies are buried, because he put them there".

Unless you are in the mafia, that is not how you do business.

From the start, Stern's behavior has been less as a mediator and more as a bully. If it were anyone else across the bargaining table than NBA players, would stern be pointing his finger at them and making demands? That's disrespectful, in the same manner you treat children, not grown men with families. Would Stern do that to an owner? You bet your life he wouldn't. It's obvious Stern was peeved at Wade for his comment that Superstars are underpaid.
On another note, all we ever hear about lately is that NBA players should be happy to get the money they do and should just take any offer and play. Really? How about you show up for work tomorrow and there's a lock on the door and your boss tells you "either we cut your pay in half, or there is no work for you". Everyone on these boards would go ape-sh##. And then after that, you would try to get more than what your boss is currently offering you.
P.S. Baseball players are the ones making all the $$$$$$$. No salary cap in baseball. No assurance of competitive balance between big markets and small markets. Yanks, with a 200 mil bank roll, are in the playoffs every year. Go smash their noses in it.

I agree that Stern should be treating both sides with respect and he was wrong to point at wade. But i would be angry too if i was stern. He knows as well as any sane person knows that the owners will get their way. He is trying to get the players to agree to something closer to the owners, and now wade ****ed that up by saying players are underpaid.

Also, your argument about these players getting paycuts compared to regular everyday people getting paycuts is ludacris. They will still make millions off of contracts/sponsorships, while the average joe would have trouble putting food on the table if our pay went down 20-30%. Plus, if they dont want to follow the rules of the NBA as far as reduced contracts, then they have opportunities overseas. Go over there than NBA stars. They wont, because they would rather stay in the states where they are more comfortable. If they do leave the NBA will be just as entertaining as they will quickly find replacements to fill in the marketing voids left behind

heyman321
10-01-2011, 02:38 PM
On another note, all we ever hear about lately is that NBA players should be happy to get the money they do and should just take any offer and play. Really? How about you show up for work tomorrow and there's a lock on the door and your boss tells you "either we cut your pay in half, or there is no work for you". Everyone on these boards would go ape-sh##. And then after that, you would try to get more than what your boss is currently offering you.

P.S. Baseball players are the ones making all the $$$$$$$. No salary cap in baseball. No assurance of competitive balance between big markets and small markets. Yanks, with a 200 mil bank roll, are in the playoffs every year. Go smash their noses in it.

oh really? cause most people in real life don't get that paycut notice, they just get fired. that's what happened to tens of millions of people over the past 4-5 years.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 02:48 PM
No way can you compare players to average working people. They are entertainers.

What the owners are trying to do is the equivalent of telling Will Smith he needs to cut his salary in half even though he's personally responsible for billions in sales and his movies are at peak popularity, because the production company claims they've been losing money......

llemon
10-01-2011, 02:48 PM
oh really? cause most people in real life don't get that paycut notice, they just get fired. that's what happened to tens of millions of people over the past 4-5 years.

NBA players get fired also.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 02:50 PM
Carrying the players like the way he carries the Miami Heat. Then again he is the best player on the Miami Heat.

llemon
10-01-2011, 02:54 PM
I agree that Stern should be treating both sides with respect and he was wrong to point at wade. But i would be angry too if i was stern. He knows as well as any sane person knows that the owners will get their way. He is trying to get the players to agree to something closer to the owners, and now wade ****ed that up by saying players are overpaid.

Also, your argument about these players getting paycuts compared to regular everyday people getting paycuts is ludacris. They will still make millions off of contracts/sponsorships, while the average joe would have trouble putting food on the table if our pay went down 20-30%. Plus, if they dont want to follow the rules of the NBA as far as reduced contracts, then they have opportunities overseas. Go over there than NBA stars. They wont, because they would rather stay in the states where they are more comfortable. If they do leave the NBA will be just as entertaining as they will quickly find replacements to fill in the marketing voids left behind

You do realize that Stern works for the owners, right?

Stern is not trying to be sane, he's trying to win the negotiations and save his job.

And there are no rules as far as reduced contracts, there are no rules because as there is no contract. THEY ARE NEGOTIATING.

But most of all, SCREW STERN.

Underrated Wade
10-01-2011, 02:54 PM
Wade didnt yell. he warned stern not to point his finger. and melo definitely did not retstrain him

heyman321
10-01-2011, 02:55 PM
NBA players get fired also.

No they don't, their contracts are guaranteed.

LakersMaster24
10-01-2011, 02:57 PM
If this is true then expect Wade to get assassinated by an unknown man, who we will later find out worked for David Stern. :D

Just kidding, I honestly also think that this is just media hype.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 02:58 PM
You do realize that Stern works for the owners, right?
Stern is not trying to be sane, he's trying to win the negotiations and save his job.

And there are no rules as far as reduced contracts, there are no rules because as there is no contract. THEY ARE NEGOTIATING.

But most of all, SCREW STERN.

doesnt really matter in this case, even if the NBA brought in a unbiased third party, even that third party would realize if they want to end the lockout and play games, the player will have to negotiate to what the owners want

llemon
10-01-2011, 02:59 PM
No they don't, their contracts are guaranteed.

Every NBA player has a guaranteed contract?

Like Dampier's Dallas contract this past season?

llemon
10-01-2011, 03:02 PM
doesnt really matter in this case, even if the NBA brought in a unbiased third party, even that third party would realize if they want to end the lockout and play games, the player will have to negotiate to what the owners want

Well, that is your opinion.

We shall see what happens.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:03 PM
I dont care what happens, i just want a season at this point. On that same token i would like to see the smaller markets (memphis) get chances to be more competitive in the new CBA agreement

heyman321
10-01-2011, 03:06 PM
Every NBA player has a guaranteed contract?

Like Dampier's Dallas contract this past season?

You mean how Dampier's Dallas contract was BOUGHT OUT? He didn't get "cut" and lose all the money he was owed, like an office guy would just get fired and probably get next to zero for severance, if the company even wanted to give a severance package.

llemon
10-01-2011, 03:08 PM
I dont care what happens, i just want a season at this point. On that same token i would like to see the smaller markets (memphis) get chances to be more competitive in the new CBA agreement

I'm all for parity, if it is handled properly.

jiggin
10-01-2011, 03:10 PM
You do realize that Stern works for the owners, right?

Stern is not trying to be sane, he's trying to win the negotiations and save his job.

And there are no rules as far as reduced contracts, there are no rules because as there is no contract. THEY ARE NEGOTIATING.

But most of all, SCREW STERN.

LOL stern could care very little about the feelings of the NBA players, his job and his motivation is completely with the owners because THEY MAKE THE NBA POSSIBLE. The player just don't seem to get that fact since it appears most of them are ego maniacs and believe THEY themselves are in control of basketball and if it works or not. SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

the players are free to do what they want, go play minor league basketball, go work at Wendy's get a desk job...whatever. Stern answers to the owners and the owners alone....so I find no fault in his lack of display of affection or desire to "side" or sympathize with the players. They control nothing in his world except to annoy the people that employ him by doing shenanigans like this.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 03:17 PM
LOL stern could care very little about the feelings of the NBA players, his job and his motivation is completely with the owners because THEY MAKE THE NBA POSSIBLE. The player just don't seem to get that fact since it appears most of them are ego maniacs and believe THEY themselves are in control of basketball and if it works or not. SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

the players are free to do what they want, go play minor league basketball, go work at Wendy's get a desk job...whatever. Stern answers to the owners and the owners alone....so I find no fault in his lack of display of affection or desire to "side" or sympathize with the players. They control nothing in his world except to annoy the people that employ him by doing shenanigans like this.



Wow. Sounds pretty bitter dude. Im just waiting for you to throw in the obligatory "these guys get paid millions to put a ball in a basket, they should be bowing down in gratitude to the owners......."

NYKnicksAllDay
10-01-2011, 03:19 PM
LOL stern could care very little about the feelings of the NBA players, his job and his motivation is completely with the owners because THEY MAKE THE NBA POSSIBLE. The player just don't seem to get that fact since it appears most of them are ego maniacs and believe THEY themselves are in control of basketball and if it works or not. SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

the players are free to do what they want, go play minor league basketball, go work at Wendy's get a desk job...whatever. Stern answers to the owners and the owners alone....so I find no fault in his lack of display of affection or desire to "side" or sympathize with the players. They control nothing in his world except to annoy the people that employ him by doing shenanigans like this.

:laugh: Without the players the NBA would fail. The players make this league not the owners. Do fans go to watch Jerry Buss? No. They go to see Kobe Bryant.

mzgrizz
10-01-2011, 03:20 PM
Stern works for the owners but SO DO THE PLAYERS ............
If they have reached 1 of the 3 major hurdles yesterday, maybe we'll get one today and done by Sunday.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 03:21 PM
I agree that Stern should be treating both sides with respect and he was wrong to point at wade. But i would be angry too if i was stern. He knows as well as any sane person knows that the owners will get their way. He is trying to get the players to agree to something closer to the owners, and now wade ****ed that up by saying players are underpaid.

Also, your argument about these players getting paycuts compared to regular everyday people getting paycuts is ludacris. They will still make millions off of contracts/sponsorships, while the average joe would have trouble putting food on the table if our pay went down 20-30%. Plus, if they dont want to follow the rules of the NBA as far as reduced contracts, then they have opportunities overseas. Go over there than NBA stars. They wont, because they would rather stay in the states where they are more comfortable. If they do leave the NBA will be just as entertaining as they will quickly find replacements to fill in the marketing voids left behind

Several things-

1. What does a rap musician have to do with your argument?
2. Aren't team owners also excluded from being average joes? Most of them are worth over a billion. They own these teams as hobbies. Where is the ridicule for them?
3. There are currently no rules in place. That is what is being negotiated.
4. Are you serious? What replacements and from where? Give me a starting 5. Have fun watching a 2 on 2 of Sarver/Gilbert vs. Buss/Dolan. Let's see how much money that draws.:facepalm:

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:23 PM
:laugh: Without the players the NBA would fail. The players make this league not the owners. Do fans go to watch Jerry Buss? No. They go to see Kobe Bryant.

this is where you are wrong. If all the NBA stars left and went overseas, they would be huge over there. However they would quickly be replaced by great but not superstar players who would now be considered stars. If all the Kobe's Lebron's and Dwight's went overseas, then the JR Smith's, Rudy Gay's and Andrew Bynum's would become the superstars, and the NBA would still be very popular

llemon
10-01-2011, 03:26 PM
LOL stern could care very little about the feelings of the NBA players, his job and his motivation is completely with the owners because THEY MAKE THE NBA POSSIBLE. The player just don't seem to get that fact since it appears most of them are ego maniacs and believe THEY themselves are in control of basketball and if it works or not. SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

the players are free to do what they want, go play minor league basketball, go work at Wendy's get a desk job...whatever. Stern answers to the owners and the owners alone....so I find no fault in his lack of display of affection or desire to "side" or sympathize with the players. They control nothing in his world except to annoy the people that employ him by doing shenanigans like this.

Yeah, I said Stern works for the owners.

And he is the egomaniac.

And I find no fault with Wade telling Stern to screw off.

NYKnicksAllDay
10-01-2011, 03:27 PM
this is where you are wrong. If all the NBA stars left and went overseas, they would be huge over there. However they would quickly be replaced by great but not superstar players who would now be considered stars. If all the Kobe's Lebron's and Dwight's went overseas, then the JR Smith's, Rudy Gay's and Andrew Bynum's would become the superstars, and the NBA would still be very popular

I never said the NBA stars would not be huge overthere. I don't know where you are getting this from. And there is absolutely no way that if Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, D-Will, Amare, Melo, Durant etc. went overseas that the NBA would still remain very popular. The league would suffer immensely if these players left.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Several things-

1. What does a rap musician have to do with your argument?
2. Aren't team owners also excluded from being average joes? Most of them are worth over a billion. They own these teams as hobbies. Where is the ridicule for them?
3. There are currently no rules in place. That is what is being negotiated.
4. Are you serious? What replacements and from where? Give me a starting 5. Have fun watching a 2 on 2 of Sarver/Gilbert vs. Buss/Dolan. Let's see how much money that draws.:facepalm:

1) the word ludicrous my bad lol
2) Yes the owners are in the same boat as the players, but they already have the money to start teams (thus giving the players jobs), and some owners want to make money while owning a team
3) Agree with you
4) second tier players would become stars if the "superstars" went overseas. They would make very good income and take in the endorsement deals of nike, addidas, reebok, etc. that are primarily marketed in the US

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 03:29 PM
I dont care what happens, i just want a season at this point. On that same token i would like to see the smaller markets (memphis) get chances to be more competitive in the new CBA agreement

why should the field be leveled? after Jordan retired the lakers and the spurs won the majority of championships w/ 5 and 4 apiece. That's a big market team and a small market team. then you have teams like the heat, mavs, and pistons who also won for fanbases that are tweeners b/t small market and big market. Throw in Boston, and that's 1 more ring for the big markets. For those of you keeping count thats Big Markets: 6, Small Markets: 4, Tweener markets: 3. Seems fair to me. Now, you want to change that so more small market teams can win? with all due respect, get bent.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Thinking the NBA would survive just as well as it has without Kobe, Lebron, Dwight and all of the other top star is a bit optimistic on the NBA side of things. That is a huge blow and with the way the internet is fans would tune into live streams to watch these players alot more than they would tune into the NBA to see a team of subpar "stars"

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 03:30 PM
this is where you are wrong. If all the NBA stars left and went overseas, they would be huge over there. However they would quickly be replaced by great but not superstar players who would now be considered stars. If all the Kobe's Lebron's and Dwight's went overseas, then the JR Smith's, Rudy Gay's and Andrew Bynum's would become the superstars, and the NBA would still be very popular



Absolutely 100% not true. The NBA is a legit superstar league, been that way since Magic and Bird. There's a reason why Kobe or Lebron are on fan night every week on nbatv.......

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:31 PM
why should the field be leveled? after Jordan retired the lakers and the spurs won the majority of championships w/ 5 and 4 apiece. That's a big market team and a small market team. then you have teams like the heat, mavs, and pistons who also won for fanbases that are tweeners b/t small market and big market. Throw in Boston, and that's 1 more ring for the big markets. For those of you keeping count thats Big Markets: 6, Small Markets: 4, Tweener markets: 3. Seems fair to me. Now, you want to change that so more small market teams can win? with all due respect, get bent.

I just want a team that is well managed to win the championship, no matter what market they are. The larger markets would still have a advantage because of endorsemnt/marketbalilty factors, and players take less money to go there and win.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 03:31 PM
NBA players get fired also.

Name one NBA player, under contract, who has ever been fired. If that were done, the team owner would be sued to the edge of valhalla.

NBA employees are contract employees. Lebron's "decision" is a prime example. Was he looking for employment, or were employers looking for him?

Remember, there is power in the contract. Legal and binding.

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 03:32 PM
this is where you are wrong. If all the NBA stars left and went overseas, they would be huge over there. However they would quickly be replaced by great but not superstar players who would now be considered stars. If all the Kobe's Lebron's and Dwight's went overseas, then the JR Smith's, Rudy Gay's and Andrew Bynum's would become the superstars, and the NBA would still be very popular

Another horrible analogy. the league would be destroyed if it doesn't field the world's top talent. we are American's we only want to see the best in the world, not spare parts.

Soccer is a great example of this. No one watches the MLS because it doesn't field the best talent on earth. There are more fans in this country who enjoy watching European league soccer because its talent is second to none. That's what would happen to the NBA. The owners are playing with fire here.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:32 PM
Absolutely 100% not true. The NBA is a legit superstar league, been that way since Magic and Bird. There's a reason why Kobe or Lebron are on fan night every week on nbatv.......

so your saying if these guys left, the second tier players would not quickly take the place of these guys and the NBA would not market these guys as superstars in the NBA?

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 03:36 PM
so your saying if these guys left, the second tier players would not quickly take the place of these guys and the NBA would not market these guys as superstars in the NBA?

They could market them anyway they want to. Unless the public has short term memory those true stars won't be forgotten. Let's not act as if the internet isn't a tool to see anything world-wide. I can guarantee fans will watch streams of overseas games with these stars more than watching a "new" nba without the real stars. Those overseas teams will heavily market streams and other avenues if those players went there

Marketing is a powerful tool but it's not a replacement tool

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Another horrible analogy. the league would be destroyed if it doesn't field the world's top talent. we are American's we only want to see the best in the world, not spare parts.

Soccer is a great example of this. No one watches the MLS because it doesn't field the best talent on earth. There are more fans in this country who enjoy watching European league soccer because its talent is second to none. That's what would happen to the NBA. The owners are playing with fire here.

I agree that the NBA popularity would take a hit, but i dont think it would be that substantial. As i said before, i think the players would prefer to stay in the US, make less money, and play against the best talent and in front of their countrymen (talking about american born stars) than go overseas for a little more money. This all started with Wade saying they are underpaid (compared to what they can make in other countries), to which i say ok whatever, stay or go then

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 03:39 PM
I agree that the NBA popularity would take a hit, but i dont think it would be that substantial. As i said before, i think the players would prefer to stay in the US, make less money, and play against the best talent and in front of their countrymen (talking about american born stars) than go overseas for a little more money. This all started with Wade saying they are underpaid (compared to what they can make in other countries), to which i say ok whatever, stay or go then

fair enough. everyone has their own opinions, but I think we can all come to the agreement that we would much prefer there to be a season than not. Hopefully, these clowns can get it together in time.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:40 PM
They could market them anyway they want to. Unless the public has short term memory those true stars won't be forgotten. Let's not act as if the internet isn't a tool to see anything world-wide. I can guarantee fans will watch streams of overseas games with these stars more than watching a "new" nba without the real stars. Those overseas teams will heavily market streams and other avenues if those players went there

Marketing is a powerful tool but it's not a replacement tool

I would be one of those people who watch the stramed games online. But that does not go for everyone. Many fans are not that serious and wont dig for games in other countries just to watch the most talented players. Not all europeans watch NBA games, some are perfectly content with the "stars" that they have there.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 03:41 PM
so your saying if these guys left, the second tier players would not quickly take the place of these guys and the NBA would not market these guys as superstars in the NBA?


Nope. The second tier players are second tier for a reason. Its not like the NBA markets guys like Kobe, Lebron and Dwight just because they're cool guys. They are marketed because they are the best and superior players skillwise. If they go away the second tier guys become best by default but if the typical fan has a choice of watching Kobe play in china or watching Rudy Gay vs Kyle Lowry who do you think they are going to watch?

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 03:44 PM
I would be one of those people who watch the stramed games online. But that does not go for everyone. Many fans are not that serious and wont dig for games in other countries just to watch the most talented players. Not all europeans watch NBA games, some are perfectly content with the "stars" that they have there.

Ok i can definitely agree with you on that. I still feel the NBA will take a decent hit if those guys decided to leave. Those names are just too big to all leave at the same time and there not be a giant financial hole left in the NBA's pocket

Badluck33
10-01-2011, 03:47 PM
Someone should put their foot thru D-wades skull.

I like how he represents himself and the 15% of the league making $10 million +.

Guys who are only making $1.5 need that 1.5 more than Wade needs his 15 million and he isn't helping the cause.

DWade, please sit down and STFU.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:47 PM
Nope. The second tier players are second tier for a reason. Its not like the NBA markets guys like Kobe, Lebron and Dwight just because they're cool guys. They are marketed because they are the best and superior players skillwise. If they go away the second tier guys become best by default but if the typical fan has a choice of watching Kobe play in china or watching Rudy Gay vs Kyle Lowry who do you think they are going to watch?

do you really want me to answer that question. I agree they second tier players would be masquerading as the "stars of the best of the best in basketball" but that would not be the case. I would watch both, but most fans would still watch the NBA. But as i said before, since America is the overall best and deepest talent pool for basketball, i doubt they would want to leave the states and make a little more money

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 03:49 PM
I just want a team that is well managed to win the championship, no matter what market they are. The larger markets would still have a advantage because of endorsemnt/marketbalilty factors, and players take less money to go there and win.

MrfadeawayJB,
I appreciate your position and respect it, I just don't know if the league would be sustainable without the best players in the world.

Remember how it felt when we lost in the Olympics? Well, we would have to get used to that.

I like seeing teams like Memphis going deep in the playoffs- so, you have great validity on that point. Owners and Players need to both sit down, break bread and come up with a solution. We can all agree that player salaries will, and should, be subject to a fair amount of reduction. It shouldn't be drastic. Maybe a soft cap with and escalating penalty per over the cap range would also help?

Sidebar: Selby was a steal.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:50 PM
fair enough. everyone has their own opinions, but I think we can all come to the agreement that we would much prefer there to be a season than not. Hopefully, these clowns can get it together in time.


Ok i can definitely agree with you on that. I still feel the NBA will take a decent hit if those guys decided to leave. Those names are just too big to all leave at the same time and there not be a giant financial hole left in the NBA's pocket

thanks for the healthy argument guys. lol i needed to get it out of my system. But yes i hope we can get this done sooner rather than later

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:53 PM
MrfadeawayJB,
I appreciate your position and respect it, I just don't know if the league would be sustainable without the best players in the world.

Remember how it felt when we lost in the Olympics? Well, we would have to get used to that.

I like seeing teams like Memphis going deep in the playoffs- so, you have great validity in that point. Owner and Players need to both sit down, break bread and come up with a solution. We can all agree that player salaries will, and should, be subject to a fair amount of reduction. It shouldn't be drastic. Maybe a soft cap with and escalating penalty per over the cap range would also help?

Sidebar: Selby was a steal.


I think the league would be sustainable but would it lose populariity yes. I do think american born players (even superstars) would rather stay here. just playing devils advocate here. I like your idea about salaries and soft caps.



ps: Yes Selby was a steal, i almost **** my pants when he fell to us

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Someone should put their foot thru D-wades skull.

I like how he represents himself and the 15% of the league making $10 million +.

Guys who are only making $1.5 need that 1.5 more than Wade needs his 15 million and he isn't helping the cause.

DWade, please sit down and STFU.

Would you let someone publicly disrespect you? Or would you break one off in their ***?

Wade put Stern in his place, which was necessary. Put the cattle prod away and let's negotiate.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Someone should put their foot thru D-wades skull.

I like how he represents himself and the 15% of the league making $10 million +.

Guys who are only making $1.5 need that 1.5 more than Wade needs his 15 million and he isn't helping the cause.

DWade, please sit down and STFU.

Things always have different ways you can look at it. You can look at it as Wade not being able to shut up. Or you could look at it as Wade standing up for himself and other players. Stern talking down to them doesn't just go for the guys that were in the room you have hundreds of other NBA players who it was directed to (Whatever the statement was). So Wade standing up will let Stern and others know to treat them with respect. These players aren't kids or slaves they bring in alot of money for these guys

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 03:59 PM
I respect Wade for not taking any ****, but he needs to think about what he is saying. He makes up a small percentage of the NBA that is making Max or near max money. Other guys need a season to make a living. others in the same boat as wade, james, melo, can afford to take a year off.

NYKnicksAllDay
10-01-2011, 04:00 PM
do you really want me to answer that question. I agree they second tier players would be masquerading as the "stars of the best of the best in basketball" but that would not be the case. I would watch both, but most fans would still watch the NBA. But as i said before, since America is the overall best and deepest talent pool for basketball, i doubt they would want to leave the states and make a little more money

I have to disagree with that. I think that most fans, the casual fans, would stop watching entirely.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 04:01 PM
On a sidenote apparently Sarver from the Suns has been playing a big role as one of the owners spokesmen again AND he was supposedly saying he felt he didn't get enough return on his investment with the Suns. How friggin insane is that? This dude has singlehandedly screwed up the Suns for years by being a cheapskate and an incompetent idiot and HE's an important voice?

Thats so ridiculous its like Flava Flav speaking at a NAACP meeting!!

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 04:04 PM
I have to disagree with that. I think that most fans, the casual fans, would stop watching entirely.

we can just agree to disagree then. on a side note Is that your X-BOX Live gamertag in your sig?

smith&wesson
10-01-2011, 04:09 PM
wade better watch what he says.stern is more powerfull then we all give him credit for. he can make sure the heat dont get a ring so long as he is comish.

NYKnicksAllDay
10-01-2011, 04:09 PM
we can just agree to disagree then. on a side note Is that your X-BOX Live gamertag in your sig?

I probably should clarify a little. I agree some fans would continue watching, but I feel like the fans who only watch because of Kobe or Lebron would just stop watching and move on to something else. Regardless, hopefully something gets worked out soon because I really don't want to find who is right in this hypothetical scenario. And yes, that is my gamertag.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:10 PM
wade and lebron shouldnt even be at the ****ing meetings, why the hell are they there, the last thing the nba needs is two ****ing cocky ignorant and highly undereducated invdividuals having any say in this lockout. Wade and lebron probably dont even understand the concept of percents so why the **** is anyone listening to them on the BRI issue. Ppl say lebron and wade should be there cuz they are the leaders of the players, ********, how can they be leaders when they have no clue what they are ****ing talking about. The last thing any labor dispute needs is a bunch of cocky arrogant dudes who dont know what their talking about have any say in the matter. Leave the ****ing brainwork to ethan thomas and derek fisher, and go jerk each other off until the season starts ****ing loosers.

Soxsnation4life
10-01-2011, 04:10 PM
I love how all you guys complain about Stern but then when a Heat player says something about him you all get mad at him and say ****. All of this stuff is being taken out of context and blown out of proportion by guys like Rich Buecher and Brousard because they have nothing to talk about.

llemon
10-01-2011, 04:10 PM
Things always have different ways you can look at it. You can look at it as Wade not being able to shut up. Or you could look at it as Wade standing up for himself and other players. Stern talking down to them doesn't just go for the guys that were in the room you have hundreds of other NBA players who it was directed to (Whatever the statement was). So Wade standing up will let Stern and others know to treat them with respect. These players aren't kids or slaves they bring in alot of money for these guys

The players have been wanting some of their heavy hitters to be at these negotiations, and I'm betting this is what the players would hope would happen. A major player with a certain amount of pull that would not take any condescending crap from David (I've Misplaced The Bodies) Stern.

Soxsnation4life
10-01-2011, 04:12 PM
I bet half you morons talking about how dumb Wade is have absolutely no clue what is going on

Soxsnation4life
10-01-2011, 04:13 PM
BTW Wade wasn't complaining about how he's underpaid, he was just making an example, which is right. Wade makes the NBA and the Heat 5 times more than his salary

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 04:14 PM
wade better watch what he says.stern is more powerfull then we all give him credit for. he can make sure the heat dont get a ring so long as he is comish.

:laugh: sad but true



I probably should clarify a little. I agree some fans would continue watching, but I feel like the fans who only watch because of Kobe or Lebron would just stop watching and move on to something else. Regardless, hopefully something gets worked out soon because I really don't want to find who is right in this hypothetical scenario. And yes, that is my gamertag.


yeah i dont want to find out either lol....mind if i shoot you a friend request

llemon
10-01-2011, 04:14 PM
wade and lebron shouldnt even be at the ****ing meetings, why the hell are they there, the last thing the nba needs is two ****ing cocky ignorant and highly undereducated invdividuals having any say in this lockout. Wade and lebron probably dont even understand the concept of percents so why the **** is anyone listening to them on the BRI issue. Ppl say lebron and wade should be there cuz they are the leaders of the players, ********, how can they be leaders when they have no clue what they are ****ing talking about. The last thing any labor dispute needs is a bunch of cocky arrogant dudes who dont know what their talking about have any say in the matter. Leave the ****ing brainwork to ethan thomas and derek fisher, and go jerk each other off until the season starts ****ing loosers.

The lesser players expressed a wish that some of the heavy hitters would be present at the meetings, and that sounds perfectly logical to me.

Easier to intimidate Derek Fisher, and Theo Ratliff, guys that may have played there last games, than it is to intimidate the guys that are responsible for a large chunk of the NBA's income.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 04:15 PM
I respect Wade for not taking any ****, but he needs to think about what he is saying. He makes up a small percentage of the NBA that is making Max or near max money. Other guys need a season to make a living. others in the same boat as wade, james, melo, can afford to take a year off.

I understand, but this is about them as well...

The stringent hard cap system being proposed would lead to a plethora of unguaranteed contracts. Those would, predominantly, take place at their teir level. They stand a lot to lose.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:16 PM
I bet half you morons talking about how dumb Wade is have absolutely no clue what is going on

hahahahah no wade is most definetly retarted, anyone who makes a labor disupte personal clearly is extremely selfish, and isn't thinking for the good of the players as a whole. and actually i just use prosports to vent, if you would like to read one of my several more professional articles on wade and the lockout i can provide you the link (and let me just say i can guarentee i am much more educated on the subject, then you or anyone else from Miami, cuz none of you know anything about basketball)

NYKnicksAllDay
10-01-2011, 04:16 PM
:laugh: sad but true





yeah i dont want to find out either lol....mind if i shoot you a friend request

Not at all, go ahead.

SportsFanatic10
10-01-2011, 04:17 PM
wade and lebron shouldnt even be at the ****ing meetings, why the hell are they there, the last thing the nba needs is two ****ing cocky ignorant and highly undereducated invdividuals having any say in this lockout. Wade and lebron probably dont even understand the concept of percents so why the **** is anyone listening to them on the BRI issue. Ppl say lebron and wade should be there cuz they are the leaders of the players, ********, how can they be leaders when they have no clue what they are ****ing talking about. The last thing any labor dispute needs is a bunch of cocky arrogant dudes who dont know what their talking about have any say in the matter. Leave the ****ing brainwork to ethan thomas and derek fisher, and go jerk each other off until the season starts ****ing loosers.

after reading your post i'm convinced that wade and lebron are both a hell of a lot smarter then you.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:20 PM
The lesser players expressed a wish that some of the heavy hitters would be present at the meetings, and that sounds perfectly logical to me.

Easier to intimidate Derek Fisher, and Theo Ratliff, guys that may have played there last games, than it is to intimidate the guys that are responsible for a large chunk of the NBA's income.

so your telling me its better to have a highly undereducated individual who actually doesn't have the views of the low-average income players is better representation than guys like Derek Fisher who are not only highly educated and respected, but also are in the same position as the majority of nba players.... that makes sense haha

ya wade is really doing his part haha, the fact that he had the nerve to make this meeting personal is disgusting and selfish, we are about to have a year of no basketball and he is *****ing about the nba comissioner pointing a finger at him ****ing immature baby that kid is. He claimed he didnt want to be treated like a child, in my opinion delaying labor talks cuz i guy pointed a finger at you is pretty much the most childish thing you can do

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 04:21 PM
This is the world we now live in. Players have WAY too much power in sports PERIOD. Everyone wants to be a global icon and be a brand. The inmates run the asylum.

I wish more athletes had an attitude like Dirk Nowitzki.

I dislike David Stern as much as the next guy, but you have to be crazy to not agree that Wade is a immature child.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 04:22 PM
so your telling me its better to have a highly undereducated individual who actually doesn't have the views of the low-average income players is better representation than guys like Derek Fisher who are not only highly educated and respected, but also are in the same position as the majority of nba players.... that makes sense haha

ya wade is really doing his part haha, the fact that he had the nerve to make this meeting personal is disgusting and selfish, we are about to have a year of no basketball and he is *****ing about the nba comissioner pointing a finger at him ****ing immature baby that kid is. He claimed he didnt want to be treated like a child, in my opinion delaying labor talks cuz i guy pointed a finger at you is pretty much the most childish thing you can do

How do you know how intelligent these guys are? It sounds as if you are mad about them teaming up and being cocky about it.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:22 PM
after reading your post i'm convinced that wade and lebron are both a hell of a lot smarter then you.

if you say so. dont worry though a sport fan from atlanta (ironic i know) cant hurt my feelings haha. if you would like i can give u a link to some of the more articulate articles i have written, i just use this forum to bash on ppl who know nothing about sports (but think they do) like u

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:24 PM
How do you know how intelligent these guys are? It sounds as if you are mad at them teaming up and being cocky about it.

hahaha u heat fans crack me up, u dont have the basketball iq to have responses that deal with anything i said, u just say oh ur jealous. these forums make me feel so smart i love it

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 04:26 PM
wade and lebron shouldnt even be at the ****ing meetings, why the hell are they there, the last thing the nba needs is two ****ing cocky ignorant and highly undereducated invdividuals having any say in this lockout. Wade and lebron probably dont even understand the concept of percents so why the **** is anyone listening to them on the BRI issue. Ppl say lebron and wade should be there cuz they are the leaders of the players, ********, how can they be leaders when they have no clue what they are ****ing talking about. The last thing any labor dispute needs is a bunch of cocky arrogant dudes who dont know what their talking about have any say in the matter. Leave the ****ing brainwork to ethan thomas and derek fisher, and go jerk each other off until the season starts ****ing loosers.


Wow. First off I believe Wade went to college. Secondly your using of the word "ignorant" in the same sentence as "undereducated invdividuals" is pure comedy. Third it's "they're" not "their." Fourth that would be "losers" not "loosers."

In conclusion the next time you want to bash players for being ignorant, please remember to use spellcheck!

Thank you!

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 04:27 PM
hahaha u heat fans crack me up, u dont have the basketball iq to have responses that deal with anything i said, u just say oh ur jealous. these forums make me feel so smart i love it

I'm actually not a heat fan lol just because it says heat in my name does not mean im a "Miami Heat" fan. Anyways how much IQ does one need to argue with someone over someone else's general IQ. You ripped these 2 claiming they are idiots and probably don't know percentages to work out the BRI. Let me ask you what does that have to do with the game of basketball? Don't try to twist it up basement blogger

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 04:29 PM
Wow. First off I believe Wade went to college. Secondly your using of the word "ignorant" in the same sentence as "undereducated invdividuals" is pure comedy. Third it's "they're" not "their." Fourth that would be "losers" not "loosers."

In conclusion the next time you want to bash players for being ignorant, please remember to use spellcheck!

Thank you!

sounds like a George W. Bush word :laugh2:

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:29 PM
Wow. First off I believe Wade went to college. Secondly your using of the word "ignorant" in the same sentence as "undereducated invdividuals" is pure comedy. Third it's "they're" not "their." Fourth that would be "losers" not "loosers."

In conclusion the next time you want to bash players for being ignorant, please remember to use spellcheck!

Thank you!

thankyou for that, next time if you wouldn't mind editting it for me than reposting it that would be great. standard heat fan, has no actual rebutle so just throws an off topic jab
you may still be in grade school, but once you get passed that level, you have people below you edit your ****, intelligence is usually gauged by ones ideas not their grammar.....moron

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:32 PM
I'm actually not a heat fan lol just because it says heat in my name does not mean im a "Miami Heat" fan. Anyways how much IQ does one need to argue with someone over someone else's general IQ. You ripped these 2 claiming they are idiots and probably don't know percentages to work out the BRI. Let me ask you what does that have to do with the game of basketball? Don't try to twist it up basement blogger

haha these meetings have nothing to do with the sport, the rules of basketball are great, it has to do with business side, which as I said they have no business being apart of.
I would also make sure not to call someone with 40 posts a basement blogger when you have over a thousand ( i just come on here to rip on the odd heat fan, makes me feel smart)

Tom Stone
10-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Wow.....This is why ignorant athletes should not be in negotiations ....Your telling me he pointed his finger at wade.......And wade finds that a reason to start yelling at stern saying their not his children.....No wade your not his children....If your were you wouldn't be that ignorant......In my opinion wade acted just like a child.:cool:

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 04:32 PM
This is the world we now live in. Players have WAY too much power in sports PERIOD. Everyone wants to be a global icon and be a brand. The inmates run the asylum.

I wish more athletes had an attitude like Dirk Nowitzki.

Dirk Nowitzki makes over 19 mil dollars per year.

Please elaborate on Dirk Nowitzki's attitude in this matter.

Keep in mind that he is addicted to brown sugar.

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 04:33 PM
hahaha u heat fans crack me up, u dont have the basketball iq to have responses that deal with anything i said, u just say oh ur jealous. these forums make me feel so smart i love it

hahahahaha a guy who writes more "articulate" posts elsewhere likes to come on PSD and write inarticulate ramblings about how smart he is and how dumb athletes and everyone who supports them are. Of course, most athletes are dumb but don't let that confuse you into believing they are ********. See how I spelled that? It's ******** not "retarted" as you spelled it earlier, oh wise articulate literary genius who likes to waste time on PSD bragging about his basketball IQ knowledge and how dumb everyone else is. Please bless us with some more drops of wisdom, oh great literary genius.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 04:35 PM
haha these meetings have nothing to do with the sport, the rules of basketball are great, it has to do with business side, which as I said they have no business being apart of.
I would also make sure not to call someone with 40 posts a basement blogger when you have over a thousand ( i just come on here to rip on the odd heat fan, makes me feel smart)

Seeing as I've been on this site for over 3 years compared to you. (Less than a year) Want another try? Anyways back to your rambling. The point I was trying to make was you claimed I had no basketball IQ to argue anything u said but u are talking general IQ. How the hell do you or anyone else here know how smart these guys are? If you talk like this on here I can just imagine how it is on your free blogspot site.

Don't insult someone's intelligence because you don't agree with things they do such as being cocky. Being cocky doesn't mean you have a low IQ

JLynn943
10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
I think it's ridiculous to assume that the players need to completely bend to the will of the owners. There is no way that most of these teams would be bringing in the money that they do without the superstar players that function in attracting the casual fan to watch.

Besides, this whole situation is largely the fault of the owners, who have proven to have no idea how to run a financially stable organization. Overpaying players who are worth nowhere close to their contracts is just bad business. They are sinking a lot of time and money into someone who is not bringing them back near what they put in - record-wise or money-wise - and that is purely the owners fault. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the ultra-conservative spenders who refuse to put anything worthwhile into the team. They trade away anything promising in fear that they will either have to pay the player or face losing the asset. All this does is chase away fans, though, as no one wants to watch a team put together for the sole purpose of not costing a lot.

Anyway, I think there have to be contracts that are guaranteed up to a certain threshold. Numbers would have to be flexible to whatever the two sides agree on, but I would say something like anybody making under 4 million per year would have to be guaranteed, with larger contracts having negotiated some guaranteed amount and then incentive-based increases (like the NFL). A team could then cut the player and no longer be screwed financially if they are under-performing. This alleviates the bad situation low-level players would have while encouraging owners to still make efforts to put together a talented team. Oh, plus a stricter salary cap to keep smaller teams competitive.

I'm sure there are problems with that idea, but it makes sense to me.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
hahahahaha a guy who writes more "articulate" posts elsewhere likes to come on PSD and write inarticulate ramblings about how smart he is and how dumb athletes and everyone who supports them are. Of course, most athletes are dumb but don't let that confuse you into believing they are ********. See how I spelled that? It's ******** not "retarted" as you spelled it earlier, oh wise articulate literary genius who likes to waste time on PSD bragging about his basketball IQ knowledge and how dumb everyone else is. Please bless us with some more drops of wisdom, oh great literary genius.

I never said i was smart, i said heat fans make me feel smart, very big difference, if I was conversing with Knicks or Laker fans I wouldn't be nearly as arrogant. but when i have watched basketball all my life, and u heat fans have been fans for what 15 months now? i feel i have the rite to be a little cocky.
By the way if some of you heat fans put as much time into your grammar as you do with basketball, i may take your opinions seriously.

MrfadeawayJB
10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
I bet mats13-- has "articulate" articles on bleacher report or something

SportsFanatic10
10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
thankyou for that, next time if you wouldn't mind editting it for me than reposting it that would be great. standard heat fan, has no actual rebutle so just throws an off topic jab
you may still be in grade school, but once you get passed that level, you have people below you edit your ****, intelligence is usually gauged by ones ideas not their grammar.....moron

lol i'm pretty sure the guy you're talking to is a lakers fan.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Seeing as I've been on this site for over 3 years compared to you. (Less than a year) Want another try? Anyways back to your rambling. The point I was trying to make was you claimed I had no basketball IQ to argue anything u said but u are talking general IQ. How the hell do you or anyone else here know how smart these guys are? If you talk like this on here I can just imagine how it is on your free blogspot site.

Don't insult someone's intelligence because you don't agree with things they do such as being cocky. Being cocky doesn't mean you have a low IQ

no i said he was dumb and cocky, not dumb because he is cocky. and yes i feel it is safe to assume that anyone who in a meeting to decide the futures of all the players of the leauge (not to mention all the team staff who arent millionaires) decides to make **** personal, yes that person is not only dumb but extremely selfish

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 04:42 PM
He is the best player on the Miami Heat and its not even close, he can yell at whoever he likes.

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 04:43 PM
I never said i was smart, i said heat fans make me feel smart, very big difference, if I was conversing with Knicks or Laker fans I wouldn't be nearly as arrogant. but when i have watched basketball all my life, and u heat fans have been fans for what 15 months now? i feel i have the rite to be a little cocky.
By the way if some of you heat fans put as much time into your grammar as you do with basketball, i may take your opinions seriously.

i understand oh great one, but you musn't assume I am a heat fan unless your powers give you the ability to read my mind through the interwebs. you must also remember to note that lambasting cocky players and then posting about your intelligence compared to heat fans is irony at its finest. But who am I to challenge you, great literary genius, maybe you are trying to teach us all a lesson here about ignoring trolls. It has been a humbling honor to communicate with you, oh wise literary genius.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 04:43 PM
no i said he was dumb and cocky, not dumb because he is cocky. and yes i feel it is safe to assume that anyone who in a meeting to decide the futures of all the players of the leauge (not to mention all the team staff who arent millionaires) decides to make **** personal, yes that person is not only dumb but extremely selfish

Ok so like I said in the previous post how do you know how intelligent these guys are. You take your own assumptions as fact when I'm pretty sure it's far from it.

Then you hop on here calling every person who pulls your card a Heat fan. Maybe you should stop and look at what you are saying and see it's you who is saying something wrong not everyone else.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:48 PM
Ok so like I said in the previous post how do you know how intelligent these guys are. You take your own assumptions as fact when I'm pretty sure it's far from it.

Then you hop on here calling every person who pulls your card a Heat fan. Maybe you should stop and look at what you are saying and see it's you who is saying something wrong not everyone else.

as i just said i feel that any intelligent individual would not do what wade did (that is what I am basing my assumption on), unless u feel that an intelligent person would put someone pointing his finger at him above the livelihood of thousands of individuals

Hostetler
10-01-2011, 04:49 PM
child please..

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 04:50 PM
hahahahaha a guy who writes more "articulate" posts elsewhere likes to come on PSD and write inarticulate ramblings about how smart he is and how dumb athletes and everyone who supports them are. Of course, most athletes are dumb but don't let that confuse you into believing they are ********. See how I spelled that? It's ******** not "retarted" as you spelled it earlier, oh wise articulate literary genius who likes to waste time on PSD bragging about his basketball IQ knowledge and how dumb everyone else is. Please bless us with some more drops of wisdom, oh great literary genius.


Lol. His literacy challenged rant and raves are just a clever disguise. He's secretly a highly educated aristocrat with telepathic abilities that would rival Professor Xavier. That's what allows him to enter the players minds via computer screen and examine their level of intelligence, education, and knowledge of percentages.

It is only within the friendly confines of PSD is he allowed to relax and take on the persona of a non-spelling, heat hating buffoon.




Im a Laker fan btw.......

beasted86
10-01-2011, 04:50 PM
This guy "mats13--" is a real character. He's getting schooled by everyone in the thread, and has no rebuttal but to call them dumb Heat fans, except not even 1 of the 3 guys he's called that actually are Heat fans.

Hilarious.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:52 PM
i understand oh great one, but you musn't assume I am a heat fan unless your powers give you the ability to read my mind through the interwebs. you must also remember to note that lambasting cocky players and then posting about your intelligence compared to heat fans is irony at its finest. But who am I to challenge you, great literary genius, maybe you are trying to teach us all a lesson here about ignoring trolls. It has been a humbling honor to communicate with you, oh wise literary genius.

exactly who are you to challenge me just stop, you don't have the basketball knowledge or general intelligence to debate with me. however we could make a good team, i could do the posts and then you can edit them since that seems to be what you are best at

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 04:53 PM
as i just said i feel that any intelligent individual would not do what wade did (that is what I am basing my assumption on), unless u feel that an intelligent person would put someone pointing his finger at him above the livelihood of thousands of individuals

Just for giggles......If that's why you said that about Wade then what was your reasoning for saying it about Lebron as well. What did he do? I mean i still don't get how you assume someone doesn't know percentages and is undereducated because he took exception to someone talking down to him but school me please

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 04:53 PM
lol i'm pretty sure the guy you're talking to is a lakers fan.


Exactly. Sheer comedy man, I think one of the Heat players must've stole his girlfriend or something. Clearly he has a grudge........

mark1125
10-01-2011, 04:55 PM
Lol I love how you posted this as if it was a legitimate empowering of the players. It wasn't, just Wade being a baby.

You did see his join date did you not?

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 04:57 PM
exactly who are you to challenge me just stop, you don't have the basketball knowledge or general intelligence to debate with me. however we could make a good team, i could do the posts and then you can edit them since that seems to be what you are best at

I would be honored that you, oh great literary genius, would bestow upon me the honor of employment in editing your posts. In these rough economic times I should be thankful for any opportunity I receive. If you were in the CBA discussions, I'm sure that over 50 years of NBA infrastructure and history would be burned to the ground in less than an hour. Of course, this is a lesson that you would be teaching us all about the importance of "retards" in our society.

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:58 PM
Exactly. Sheer comedy man, I think one of the Heat players must've stole his girlfriend or something. Clearly he has a grudge........

huge grudge, i think wade and lebron have single handedly ruined the sport of basketball, anyway im out this has been fun we should do it again in a couple weeks or whenever the next time one of these clowns does something incredibly stupid. next time we can hopefully move past the whole grammar thing, were not in ****ing grade school, if some of u focused more on ur ideas then grammar then maybe we could have a debate.

static_inferno
10-01-2011, 04:59 PM
I know Stern rules with an iron fist, and most fans hate the guy including me, but how does this outburst help? If anything Wade's actions jeopardized a compromise even more. We all know Stern is a hard-headed piece of ****, why piss him off even more?

mats13--
10-01-2011, 04:59 PM
I would be honored that you, oh great literary genius, would bestow upon me the honor of employment in editing your posts. In these rough economic times I should be thankful for any opportunity I receive. If you were in the CBA discussions, I'm sure that over 50 years of NBA infrastructure and history would be burned to the ground in less than an hour. Of course, this is a lesson that you would be teaching us all about the importance of "retards" in our society.

no problem, i like to think of myself as a giver. anyway enjoy ur dead end job peace

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 05:00 PM
as i just said i feel that any intelligent individual would not do what wade did (that is what I am basing my assumption on), unless u feel that an intelligent person would put someone pointing his finger at him above the livelihood of thousands of individuals



@ByTimReynoldsTim Reynolds


Just spoke to an NBA player not in today's meeting. Said "400 guys in our league have a new favorite player tonight, and it's Mr. D-Wade."




18 hours agovia TweetDeck

Link: http://twitter.com/#!/bytimreynolds

Next.....

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 05:02 PM
huge grudge, i think wade and lebron have single handedly ruined the sport of basketball, anyway im out this has been fun we should do it again in a couple weeks or whenever the next time one of these clowns does something incredibly stupid. next time we can hopefully move past the whole grammar thing, were not in ****ing grade school, if some of u focused more on ur ideas then grammar then maybe we could have a debate.


FYI intelligent debates are usually low on personal insults and accusations of everyone being a Heat fan.


Cheers!

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 05:07 PM
no problem, i like to think of myself as a giver. anyway enjoy ur dead end job peace

Farewell, mats13--. I shall count the moons until we meet again. Do not forget me!

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 05:11 PM
FYI intelligent debates are usually low on personal insults and accusations of everyone being a Heat fan.


Cheers!

Friend, please... don't bother wasting your time on him. Brain tissue falls out of his ear after each dedicated thought.

Let the troll roll beneath sole.

llemon
10-01-2011, 05:15 PM
hahahahah no wade is most definetly retarted, anyone who makes a labor disupte personal clearly is extremely selfish, and isn't thinking for the good of the players as a whole. and actually i just use prosports to vent, if you would like to read one of my several more professional articles on wade and the lockout i can provide you the link (and let me just say i can guarentee i am much more educated on the subject, then you or anyone else from Miami, cuz none of you know anything about basketball)

Sorry, but in the negotiating room, everyone is equal.

Had to sit grievances with a boss that, once the grievance was over, I would have to go back to my desk and work for him, because he was MY BOSS.

I never held back in defense of who I was representing, and if I felt disrespected, I made sure to let my boss know I didn't appreciate, then reach into my bag of tricks of what I knew his indiscretions, and embarrass him.

If you can't do that as a Union Representative, you don't deserve to be one.

PrettyBoyJ
10-01-2011, 05:15 PM
If these reports are true this might set the progress back.. Wade should have kept his composure and stayed in a professional manner.. Owners are low balling the players an outburst isn't what they need regardless of how mad you are..

jiggin
10-01-2011, 05:18 PM
@ByTimReynoldsTim Reynolds


Just spoke to an NBA player not in today's meeting. Said "400 guys in our league have a new favorite player tonight, and it's Mr. D-Wade."




18 hours agovia TweetDeck

Link: http://twitter.com/#!/bytimreynolds

Next.....

wow. Please tell me the NBA players AND fans are not so stupid that they in ANYWAY shape or form think this was a good thing for negotiations or the NBA in anyway AT ALL.

If this is all real as report and not embellished via media/fan reports...

...the NBA season is officially ****ed.

The ownership group isn't going to take direct or indirect out of line disrespect from a player that is their employee (and pay a **** ton of money too) who is basically saying to ownership THROUGH DAVID STERN, to go to hell. Stern represents the leagues best interests and is employed by the owners to do this. SO...Wade basically just told the owners that the demands they (the owners are asking for) and Stern is trying to complete for the owners with the players union, to go **** themselves and stop treating them like 100 million dollar kids. History has shown every season the NBA shows an iron fist to make it look in control....this, right here...is a hit out of the park for the ownership group about how idiot the demands (and the group they are dealing with) is. You can only feel so sorry for guys making 100 million dollars playing a game I love to watch but wouldn't lose nearly what they would if it all just ended.

To be honest, from a business stand point if you act like a child you should be treated like a child. I have an employee that acts like a child, is late to work, slacks at his job, isn't responsible ect...I treat him as a child...I reprimand him till I have no choice but go beyond child analogies and fire the dude. Its simple business...and the NBA is HUGE but still follows, just like every business, the same basic structural level of hierarchic trickle down. Wade may be at the top of the players level...but there are several level above him and he doesn't seem to realize that. And he is negotiating or involved with these comments @ everyone of those levels above him. Dangers, stupid and does nothing productive to what is going on...which in my opinion is a full on lockout...full season unless some miraculous part way through the season agreement is made like last time.

I am starting to truly believe that these NBA players speaking out (which are mostly all-stars covered in the media) are complete idiots. And the fact that it SEEMS a lot of fans are supporting them, just ads insult to injury. Can it really be that so many players and fans are so completely out of reality about the situation and who employs who ect...

topdog
10-01-2011, 05:19 PM
I am interested to hear what Stern actually said when he pointed at Wade. I also think it's odd having the best paid players in the league at the meeting when I think guys like Earl Watson and Anthony Tolliver probably have a greater stake and possibly some better formed opinions.

llemon
10-01-2011, 05:21 PM
If these reports are true this might set the progress back.. Wade should have kept his composure and stayed in a professional manner.. Owners are low balling the players an outburst isn't what they need regardless of how mad you are..

And wagging your finger in labor negotiations and talking down to the people that you are negotiating with is professional?

SCREW STERN.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 05:22 PM
wow. Please tell me the NBA players AND fans are not so stupid that they in ANYWAY shape or form think this was a good thing for negotiations or the NBA in anyway AT ALL.

If this is all real as report and not embellished via media/fan reports...

...the NBA season is officially ****ed.

The ownership group isn't going to take direct or indirect out of line disrespect to a player that is their employee...history has shown that EVERY SEASON.

I am starting to truly believe that these NBA players speaking out (which are mostly all-stars covered in the media) are complete idiots. And the fact that it SEEMS a lot of fans are supporting them, just ads insult to injury. Can it really be that so many players and fans are so completely out of reality about the situation and who employs who ect...

Have you ever thought that some people in this world just aren't pushovers?

You can make your argument because that may be the type of person you are. You may be fine with any type of verbal abuse whether it is major or minor. Not everyone is for it. It doesn't make them an idiot just means they have pride and self respect

ichitownclowni
10-01-2011, 05:26 PM
If only he had, if only he had

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 05:29 PM
I am interested to hear what Stern actually said when he pointed at Wade. I also think it's odd having the best paid players in the league at the meeting when I think guys like Earl Watson and Anthony Tolliver probably have a greater stake and possibly some better formed opinions.

newsflash! this is how the real world works. Look at politics for example, people who are in a lot better situations financially make decisions for the rest of the country, be it rich or poor. It shouldn't be a surprise. What are guys like Earl Watson and Anthony Tolliver going to do? They will get bullied around by the owners, they don't bring money in for the league or their teams. Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. they are the face of the league and make it possible for those other guys to even be relevant and bring boat loads of money into the league for the owners. Why should they be excluded from the meetings if they are leagues cash cows? dumb or smart they NEED to be there, since these discussions are all about money.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 05:31 PM
wow. Please tell me the NBA players AND fans are not so stupid that they in ANYWAY shape or form think this was a good thing for negotiations or the NBA in anyway AT ALL.

If this is all real as report and not embellished via media/fan reports...

...the NBA season is officially ****ed.

The ownership group isn't going to take direct or indirect out of line disrespect to a player that is their employee...history has shown that EVERY SEASON.

I am starting to truly believe that these NBA players speaking out (which are mostly all-stars covered in the media) are complete idiots. And the fact that it SEEMS a lot of fans are supporting them, just ads insult to injury. Can it really be that so many players and fans are so completely out of reality about the situation and who employs who ect...


Airing It Out With Wiz Owner



BY MITCH LAWRENCE

Thursday, October 29, 1998


You don't want to be a Washington player if Michael Jordan plays against the Wizards this season. During the mass owner-player meeting yesterday, Jordan engaged in a heated exchange with Wizards owner Abe Pollin.
Jordan's showdown with Pollin and fellow Bull Steve Kerr's verbal battle with David Stern were the highlights of the 11/2-hour meeting, according to several players.
According to players, Pollin said about his fellow owners, "You just have to trust us."
Jordan fired back, saying, "You've got to trust our negotiators." Jordan also blasted owners for not bargaining in good faith in the offseason and said to Pollin, "If you can't make a profit, you should sell your team."
Asked early today about the confrontation, Jordan replied, "I'm not trying to disrespect Abe, and I wouldn't expect him to disrepect us as players, but if they're gonna make a hard stand, we have to make a hard stand. And quite naturally, you're gonna have some angry positioning, but you have to set that aside."
Kerr, meanwhile, drew Stern's ire after he called aspects of the owners' proposal "an insult." Losing his cool, Stern responded by saying that the players' demand to have 63% of income go to salaries was also "an insult."

link: http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998-10-29/sports/18090869_1_abe-pollin-owners-wizards

The point, it is all a matter of perspective. Stern set the tone with his talk of "burying dead bodies" at the allstar game. Intimidation should never be used as a tactic, and now it has blown up in his face.

You can see, from Jordan's behavior in the '98 round of negotiations, that he was an absolute wreaking ball during negotions, taking names and checking people left and right.

Everyone is entitled to respect. Sometimes, you must impress that as an edict.

As demonstrated by Jordan, meekness does not always win the day. Sometimes, it is the iron hand.

Chew slowly. Absorb.

llemon
10-01-2011, 05:31 PM
I know Stern rules with an iron fist, and most fans hate the guy including me, but how does this outburst help? If anything Wade's actions jeopardized a compromise even more. We all know Stern is a hard-headed piece of ****, why piss him off even more?

Because being in labor negotiations is not about bending over and spreading them.

SCREW STERN. Has the poodle produced any of the supposed bodies he buried?

llemon
10-01-2011, 05:34 PM
newsflash! this is how the real world works. Look at politics for example, people who are in a lot better situations financially make decisions for the rest of the country, be it rich or poor. It shouldn't be a surprise. What are guys like Earl Watson and Anthony Tolliver going to do? They will get bullied around by the owners, they don't bring money in for the league or their teams. Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. they are the face of the league and make it possible for those other guys to even be relevant and bring boat loads of money into the league for the owners. Why should they be excluded from the meetings if they are leagues cash cows? dumb or smart they NEED to be there, since these discussions are all about money.

I read a few articles stating that the players wanted the big guns in there.

Tmath
10-01-2011, 06:02 PM
There goes Wade's chances of winning another championship while Stern's around lol.

llemon
10-01-2011, 06:08 PM
There goes Wade's chances of winning another championship while Stern's around lol.

If Stern is not the victor in these negotiations, he might not be around a whole lot longer.

SportsFanatic10
10-01-2011, 06:11 PM
If Stern is not the victor in these negotiations, he might not be around a whole lot longer.

we can only hope!

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:18 PM
Dirk Nowitzki makes over 19 mil dollars per year.

Please elaborate on Dirk Nowitzki's attitude in this matter.

Keep in mind that he is addicted to brown sugar.

I'm not talking money, I'm talking attitude. I'm well aware of what he makes.

His attitude is that of a what an ambassador of a sport should be. Loyal, competitive, shows up and does his job then goes home. There is no posturing, there is no attempt to be the focus with the media. It's simple, let the business men handle the business situations.

Let's look at the people that are at these meetings...Lebron, Baron Davis(??)lol, Melo, Wade...guys of that nature and no I'm not talking black guys and white guys.

Check out this picture.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0930/nba_a_players11_600.jpg

You think any of these guys are being taking serious? If Baron Davis attended the meeting like this, I would of been tempted to throw him out and tell him to get serious. This is the main crop of players that have made the NBA a 3 ring circus with their immature attitudes.

You're appointed a head of player relations for a reason. Lebron's GED has no business being in the meeting.

I'm simply stating that more players need to adopt the attitude of the world does not revolve around them and should bow to your demands. For Wade to blow his top at a business meeting because David Stern (whom I'm not a fan of) made a comment directed toward him is ludicrous. If you blow your top and scream at your boss in real life, you probably stand a very good chance of being let go.

I hate that there probably won't be a season, but I do think the NBA needs to make an example of guys like Melo, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Paul. You DONT run the show.

Stern pointed at Wade and he yelled, "I'm not your child"...cmon dude, get real.

SportsFanatic10
10-01-2011, 06:20 PM
so many people talk about this as if they were in the room and know everything that was said and how it all went down lol...its pathetic.

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:24 PM
If you're speaking to me...

"The Friday meetings produced some tense moments, as Dwyane Wade of the Miami Heat yelled while making pointed remarks to commissioner David Stern, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7039251/nba-labor-talks-players-owners-continuing-talks-saturday-tense-moments

llemon
10-01-2011, 06:25 PM
I'm simply stating that more players need to adopt the attitude of the world does not revolve around them and should bow to your demands. For Wade to blow his top at a business meeting because David Stern (whom I'm not a fan of) made a comment directed toward him is ludicrous. If you blow your top and scream at your boss in real life, you probably stand a very good chance of being let go.

I hate that there probably won't be a season, but I do think the NBA needs to make an example of guys like Melo, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Paul. You DONT run the show.

Excuse me sir, but are you in the LEAST LITTLE BIT familiar with labor negotiations?

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:29 PM
Excuse me sir, but are you in the LEAST LITTLE BIT familiar with labor negotiations?

Plenty. Care to elaborate what you mean?

I know situations get tense, but Wade crossed a line (if that was indeed an exact quote from him)

SportsFanatic10
10-01-2011, 06:31 PM
If you're speaking to me...

"The Friday meetings produced some tense moments, as Dwyane Wade of the Miami Heat yelled while making pointed remarks to commissioner David Stern, a source close to the situation told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7039251/nba-labor-talks-players-owners-continuing-talks-saturday-tense-moments

yeah we all know about that, but i think its safe to say theres plenty more to it then what we know at this point. unless you were in the room and know the context and situation as well as exactly what stern said to wade or whatever then you shouldn't judge the situation. i bet the players loved what wade did.

topdog
10-01-2011, 06:32 PM
newsflash! this is how the real world works. Look at politics for example, people who are in a lot better situations financially make decisions for the rest of the country, be it rich or poor. It shouldn't be a surprise. What are guys like Earl Watson and Anthony Tolliver going to do? They will get bullied around by the owners, they don't bring money in for the league or their teams. Wade, Lebron, Kobe, etc. they are the face of the league and make it possible for those other guys to even be relevant and bring boat loads of money into the league for the owners. Why should they be excluded from the meetings if they are leagues cash cows? dumb or smart they NEED to be there, since these discussions are all about money.

Newsflash! An obvious part of these negotiations in posturing and while D-Fish can say "Do you really want to lose these players" (who actually can't make these ridiculous amounts of money elsewhere), he would have a better public stance would be to say "Look, I'm representing these guys who need mid-level signings and extra space to have their jobs." Who's the bad guy there?

Further, the journeymen of the league are often more well-spoken and can contribute something to the discussions aside from making outbursts and claiming that $15M a year is not enough money for their superior talents. There is a reason most teams' union reps are not their star player.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 06:32 PM
I'm not talking money, I'm talking attitude. I'm well aware of what he makes.

His attitude is that of a what an ambassador of a sport should be. Loyal, competitive, shows up and does his job then goes home. There is no posturing, there is no attempt to be the focus with the media. It's simple, let the business men handle the business situations.

Let's look at the people that are at these meetings...Lebron, Baron Davis(??)lol, Melo, Wade...guys of that nature and no I'm not talking black guys and white guys.

Check out this picture.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0930/nba_a_players11_600.jpg

You think any of these guys are being taking serious? If Baron Davis attended the meeting like this, I would of been tempted to throw him out and tell him to get serious. This is the main crop of players that have made the NBA a 3 ring circus with their immature attitudes.

You're appointed a head of player relations for a reason. Lebron's GED has no business being in the meeting.

I'm simply stating that more players need to adopt the attitude of the world does not revolve around them and should bow to your demands. For Wade to blow his top at a business meeting because David Stern (whom I'm not a fan of) made a comment directed toward him is ludicrous. If you blow your top and scream at your boss in real life, you probably stand a very good chance of being let go.

I hate that there probably won't be a season, but I do think the NBA needs to make an example of guys like Melo, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Paul. You DONT run the show.

Stern pointed at Wade and he yelled, "I'm not your child"...cmon dude, get real.

Get real? How about you do a survey and tell me how many people will let someone talk down to them. There is no contract in place so he is NOT their boss. Let's not act as if he was telling Wade to stop being late for work or something of the sort and Wade exploded in the middle of Walmart.

They basically write Stern's paychecks. They bring in damn near all of the money to the NBA and not only that the Players Union is just that people who represent the Players. Why would the players not attend? That just doesn't make much sense to me. You will have someone represent you and you will not be around negotiations at all? That and given the fact they wanted these guys there. It wasn't like they were trying to crash the meeting with demands. The union wanted these guys there to show their commitment to what is going on.

Don't mean to sound like I'm going off on you. But everyone tries to compare this to our everyday lives when it's not even close. These guys may be workers but they are the ones cutting checks for alot of these executives

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:34 PM
I'm sure there is a lot more to both sides of it. However...I'm well within my rights to "judge" someone for throwing an unnecessary line of "I'm not your child" at another person for pointing at him.

And I'm sure the players did love what Wade did. Stick it to the man! Solidarity my brother.

HeaTxRipZz
10-01-2011, 06:37 PM
Oh yea definitely are in your rights to have your own opinion and view and I respect that. But there's always different ways you can take things. If Stern spoke to the head of NBPA privately to avoid the players from leaving he obviously felt like he may have done something wrong.

We can't treat this as if these are Walmart workers

topdog
10-01-2011, 06:38 PM
I'm not talking money, I'm talking attitude. I'm well aware of what he makes.

His attitude is that of a what an ambassador of a sport should be. Loyal, competitive, shows up and does his job then goes home. There is no posturing, there is no attempt to be the focus with the media. It's simple, let the business men handle the business situations.

Let's look at the people that are at these meetings...Lebron, Baron Davis(??)lol, Melo, Wade...guys of that nature and no I'm not talking black guys and white guys.

Check out this picture.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0930/nba_a_players11_600.jpg

You think any of these guys are being taking serious? If Baron Davis attended the meeting like this, I would of been tempted to throw him out and tell him to get serious. This is the main crop of players that have made the NBA a 3 ring circus with their immature attitudes.

You're appointed a head of player relations for a reason. Lebron's GED has no business being in the meeting.

I'm simply stating that more players need to adopt the attitude of the world does not revolve around them and should bow to your demands. For Wade to blow his top at a business meeting because David Stern (whom I'm not a fan of) made a comment directed toward him is ludicrous. If you blow your top and scream at your boss in real life, you probably stand a very good chance of being let go.

I hate that there probably won't be a season, but I do think the NBA needs to make an example of guys like Melo, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Paul. You DONT run the show.

Stern pointed at Wade and he yelled, "I'm not your child"...cmon dude, get real.

Exactly why I'm tired of this superstar leaue. These guys get coddled from such a young age that they never stop being unprofessional and immature. I was trying to figure out who that was in flannel and a stocking cap... seriously?!

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Exactly why I'm tired of this superstar leaue. These guys get coddled from such a young age that they never stop being unprofessional and immature.

Wow. I should of just said that. That sums up my feelings 100%.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm not talking money, I'm talking attitude. I'm well aware of what he makes.

His attitude is that of a what an ambassador of a sport should be. Loyal, competitive, shows up and does his job then goes home. There is no posturing, there is no attempt to be the focus with the media. It's simple, let the business men handle the business situations.

Let's look at the people that are at these meetings...Lebron, Baron Davis(??)lol, Melo, Wade...guys of that nature and no I'm not talking black guys and white guys.

Check out this picture.
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0930/nba_a_players11_600.jpg

You think any of these guys are being taking serious? If Baron Davis attended the meeting like this, I would of been tempted to throw him out and tell him to get serious. This is the main crop of players that have made the NBA a 3 ring circus with their immature attitudes.
You're appointed a head of player relations for a reason. Lebron's GED has no business being in the meeting.

I'm simply stating that more players need to adopt the attitude of the world does not revolve around them and should bow to your demands. For Wade to blow his top at a business meeting because David Stern (whom I'm not a fan of) made a comment directed toward him is ludicrous. If you blow your top and scream at your boss in real life, you probably stand a very good chance of being let go.

I hate that there probably won't be a season, but I do think the NBA needs to make an example of guys like Melo, Wade, Lebron, Amare, Paul. You DONT run the show.

Stern pointed at Wade and he yelled, "I'm not your child"...cmon dude, get real.

First of all, I see two men dressed casual, the rest of them are in suits. Yet, you clump all of them in the category of being poorly dressed. "these guys"? Seems more like a couple of them. Keep in mind that there were over twenty of them there. Were YOU at the negotiations to see how they were dressed? No. However, you seem hell bent on making assumptions.

Is Kevin Durant a representative of the NBA, shows up on time does his job? Yes.

How about Andre Iguodala? Yes.
How about Chris Paul? Yes.
How about Deron Williams?
How about Paul Pierce?
How about Ray Allen?

You think Nowitzki (I'm a fan, by the way) is the ONLY NBA player to do his job with his type of attitude?

These guys mentioned were at the meeting. You have no idea how they behaved. Yet you lump them all into the category as clowns. In 98' negotiations, Jordan told plenty of people off. Steve Kerr even had his say. You think they are clowns also?

Did Jordan leave negotiations to the business men?

Read my last post on how Jordan wrecked shop in '98. Players still got 57% of the BRI.

You want to blame someone, blame Stern. Since the allstar game, he has behaved more like a bully and less like a professional.

daleja424
10-01-2011, 06:42 PM
First of all, I see two men dressed casual, the rest of them are in suits. Yet, you clump all of them in the category of being poorly dressed. "these guys"? Seems more like a couple of them. Keep in mind that there were over twenty of them there. Were YOU at the negotiations to see how they were dressed? No. However, you seem hell bent on making assumptions.

Is Kevin Durant a representative of the NBA, shows up on time does his job? Yes.

How about Andre Iguodala? Yes.
How about Chris Paul? Yes.
How about Deron Williams?
How about Paul Pierce?
How about Ray Allen?

You think Nowitzki (I'm a fan, by the way) is the ONLY NBA player to do his job with his type of attitude?

These guys mentioned were at the meeting. You have no idea how they behaved. Yet you lump them all into the category as clowns. In 98' negotiations, Jordan told plenty of people off. Steve Kerr even had his say. You think they are clowns also?

Did Jordan leave negotiations to the business men?

Read my last post on how Jordan wrecked shop in '98. Players still got 57% of the BRI.

You want to blame someone, blame Stern. Since the allstar game, he has behaved more like a bully and less like a professional.

OWNED

:clap::clap::clap:

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:51 PM
First of all, I see two men dressed casual, the rest of them are in suits. Yet, you clump all of them in the category of being poorly dressed. "these guys"? Seems more like a couple of them. Keep in mind that there were over twenty of them there. Were YOU at the negotiations to see how they were dressed? No. However, you seem hell bent on making assumptions.

Is Kevin Durant a representative of the NBA, shows up on time does his job? Yes.

How about Andre Iguodala? Yes.
How about Chris Paul? Yes.
How about Deron Williams?
How about Paul Pierce?
How about Ray Allen?

You think Nowitzki (I'm a fan, by the way) is the ONLY NBA player to do his job with his type of attitude?

These guys mentioned were at the meeting. You have no idea how they behaved. Yet you lump them all into the category as clowns. In 98' negotiations, Jordan told plenty of people off. Steve Kerr even had his say. You think they are clowns also?

Did Jordan leave negotiations to the business men?

Read my last post on how Jordan wrecked shop in '98. Players still got 57% of the BRI.

You want to blame someone, blame Stern. Since the allstar game, he has behaved more like a bully and less like a professional.

Ok, you all keep trying to put the "you werent there, so how do you know" spin on it. No I wasn't there, obviously. However, the extensive reading I've done about the situation is enough to form solid opinions.

I keep seeing pictures of the same people on different sites, I am reading from several outlets about the comments made. I'm simply commenting on what I've been told, not the unknown. Do you think ESPN is going to report and accentuate the most positive aspects? Of course not, because drama is way more entertaining.

And no, Dirk is not the only one, but is one of the best examples to give.

As far as Jordan goes, I've read about his influence on past labor negotiations. I've NEVER been a fan...ever. But this isn't about him. I don't feel like speaking about an adulterer and a cheapskate.

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 06:53 PM
OWNED

:clap::clap::clap:

Quality addition to the conversation. Hey, Wade is missing a fluffer, fall back in line.

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 07:00 PM
Ok, you all keep trying to put the "you werent there, so how do you know" spin on it. No I wasn't there, obviously. However, the extensive reading I've done about the situation is enough to form solid opinions.

I keep seeing pictures of the same people on different sites, I am reading from several outlets about the comments made. I'm simply commenting on what I've been told, not the unknown. Do you think ESPN is going to report and accentuate the most positive aspects? Of course not, because drama is way more entertaining.

And no, Dirk is not the only one, but is one of the best examples to give.

As far as Jordan goes, I've read about his influence on past labor negotiations. I've NEVER been a fan...ever. But this isn't about him. I don't feel like speaking about an adulterer and a cheapskate.

Go anoint some heads with oil.

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 07:02 PM
I'm no saint, but Jordan is a POS. Sorry.

topdog
10-01-2011, 07:02 PM
First of all, I see two men dressed casual, the rest of them are in suits. Yet, you clump all of them in the category of being poorly dressed. "these guys"? Seems more like a couple of them. Keep in mind that there were over twenty of them there. Were YOU at the negotiations to see how they were dressed? No. However, you seem hell bent on making assumptions.
Is Kevin Durant a representative of the NBA, shows up on time does his job? Yes.

How about Andre Iguodala? Yes.
How about Chris Paul? Yes.
How about Deron Williams?
How about Paul Pierce?
How about Ray Allen?

You think Nowitzki (I'm a fan, by the way) is the ONLY NBA player to do his job with his type of attitude?

These guys mentioned were at the meeting. You have no idea how they behaved. Yet you lump them all into the category as clowns. In 98' negotiations, Jordan told plenty of people off. Steve Kerr even had his say. You think they are clowns also?

Did Jordan leave negotiations to the business men?

Read my last post on how Jordan wrecked shop in '98. Players still got 57% of the BRI.

You want to blame someone, blame Stern. Since the allstar game, he has behaved more like a bully and less like a professional.

And yet the people saying "great job Wade" are making even greater assumptions. We have Wade's words but we don't even have a rumor of what Stern said to incite them.

Funny how the guys you mention aren't the ones taking the prominent role in these meeting and shouting at Stern.

The fact that some of the players showed up looking like hobos shows a lack of respect for the meeting. You can bet that the owners were expected to show up in suits (They're billionaires, why don't they just show up in their boxers? Basic respect.), shouldn't players show that same respect? And is Wade's outburst about the players or about Wade HIMSELF?

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 07:06 PM
I'm no saint, but Jordan is a POS. Sorry.

Right, and when the players walked in, they interrupted the owners and Stern at bible study.

Love or Hate MJ, the NBA rode him to the growth it enjoys today. He is the standard in champions. And I don't like him either - Knicks fan.

beasted86
10-01-2011, 07:10 PM
Go anoint some heads with oil.

:laugh:

Knick4Knack
10-01-2011, 07:14 PM
And yet the people saying "great job Wade" are making even greater assumptions. We have Wade's words but we don't even have a rumor of what Stern said to incite them.

Funny how the guys you mention aren't the ones taking the prominent role in these meeting and shouting at Stern.

The fact that some of the players showed up looking like hobos shows a lack of respect for the meeting. You can bet that the owners were expected to show up in suits (They're billionaires, why don't they just show up in their boxers? Basic respect.), shouldn't (the 2) players (that showed dressed that way) show that same respect? And is Wade's outburst about the players or about Wade HIMSELF?

There, fixed that for you. Aw shucks, go on- no need to thank me.

Good question about Wade. Do you know the answer? Hmmm.

Glass house+stone=:facepalm:

llemon
10-01-2011, 07:18 PM
I'm no saint, but Jordan is a POS. Sorry.

Excuse me Mr. Witzk, but are you assuming that Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Barry, Jabbar, Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, Iverson, Kidd and 92.63 percent of NBA Superstars weren't also PsOS?

Doesn't change the fact that Jordan was the greatest player ever.

WVNowitzki
10-01-2011, 07:25 PM
Excuse me Mr. Witzk, but are you assuming that Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, Barry, Jabbar, Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, Iverson, Kidd and 92.63 percent of NBA Superstars weren't also PsOS?

Doesn't change the fact that Jordan was the greatest player ever.

I'm not assuming anything. You guys need to stop trying to be TMZ and digging for things that aren't there in my posts, or twisting stuff into things that I haven't said.

I've not said once that Jordan wasn't a good player. I don't even know how this got to be the main point of the conversation, it has little-to-nothing to do with him.

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 07:27 PM
Newsflash! An obvious part of these negotiations in posturing and while D-Fish can say "Do you really want to lose these players" (who actually can't make these ridiculous amounts of money elsewhere), he would have a better public stance would be to say "Look, I'm representing these guys who need mid-level signings and extra space to have their jobs." Who's the bad guy there?

Further, the journeymen of the league are often more well-spoken and can contribute something to the discussions aside from making outbursts and claiming that $15M a year is not enough money for their superior talents. There is a reason most teams' union reps are not their star player.

Interesting points, but I fail to see what case you're making. If D-Fish wants to win for his side he has to pimp and represent the cash cows. Basically, the only guys in the league who can make a dent in the pockets of the owners - MEANING, the owners will have to pay attention and play fair. As for public stance, who cares what the public thinks. D-fish's job is win for the players side. He has to play a strong hand, bringing scrubs into the meeting - although they have an important role and their needs should be met - will play into the owners hands as they can dictate their will upon them as they have no clout with them (basically, the owners can survive in a league w/o boykins, tolliver, and FISHER himself).

Also your comments about journeymen being more well-spoken compared to the superstars is about as narrow minded of an argument as I've ever heard. Just because they're well spoke doesn't mean they'll get a fair deal. Just because you're well spoken doesn't get you endorsements deals - as evidenced by Lebron himself. My point is money talks. You can be a full blown ******, but if you're a millionaire and are one of the sole reasons the league rakes in the dough, you need to be in those meetings. Earl Boykins isn't going to get the owners to play fair.

daleja424
10-01-2011, 07:28 PM
Quality addition to the conversation. Hey, Wade is missing a fluffer, fall back in line.

I didn't need to add anything... the other poster did a sufficient job of making you look foolish...

You made it clear... you like your NBA players to be without personality... you like boring plain people... we got it... now stop

daleja424
10-01-2011, 07:36 PM
You have shown ZERO interest in having a grown man conversation... since the beginning of this conversation you have resorted to sweeping generalizations and taking personal shots. The worst part is that you actually think you are having an adult rational conversation right now... :facepalm:

LanceUpperCut
10-01-2011, 07:38 PM
Did Wade really say superstars are underpaid. I ****ing hope not, if so that sounds like he's looking out for him self and not the other half of the league that makes great money, say 1-5 million but for a short period of time. If anything the superstars are greedy not the struggling player who spends his career looking for that one contract to live off.

topdog
10-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Interesting points, but I fail to see what case you're making. If D-Fish wants to win for his side he has to pimp and represent the cash cows. Basically, the only guys in the league who can make a dent in the pockets of the owners - MEANING, the owners will have to pay attention and play fair. As for public stance, who cares what the public thinks. D-fish's job is win for the players side. He has to play a strong hand, bringing scrubs into the meeting - although they have an important role and their needs should be met - will play into the owners hands as they can dictate their will upon them as they have no clout with them (basically, the owners can survive in a league w/o boykins, tolliver, and FISHER himself).

Also your comments about journeymen being more well-spoken compared to the superstars is about as narrow minded of an argument as I've ever heard. Just because they're well spoke doesn't mean they'll get a fair deal. Just because you're well spoken doesn't get you endorsements deals - as evidenced by Lebron himself. My point is money talks. You can be a full blown ******, but if you're a millionaire and are one of the sole reasons the league rakes in the dough, you need to be in those meetings. Earl Boykins isn't going to get the owners to play fair.

We already know that Lebron, Melo, ect. are behind the players union. They've said it themselves. They've talked the talk about playing overseas if necessary. Them being at the meeting does nothing for the cause. Guys like Fisher and other team representatives (Tolliver is one), are the guys who should be talking because they have something to say. They are the one's who worked to prepare players for the lockout and they are the ones who truly make the negotiation about the union rather than superstars and "big 3s."

My mention of journeymen is not narrow-minded. I did not make blanket statements saying "all journeymen are more well-spoken than superstars" or "NBA stars are mentally and verbally challenged." What I am saying is look into who your team's union rep is and ask yourself "where's Kobe?" "where's Amare?" Most NBA players leave negotiations to their agents so they shouldn't start trying to play negotiator because a new CBA is being forged. Further, have you heard a post-game interview lately? Not everyone, but a lot of good NBA players have no role in public speaking.

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 07:45 PM
I really don't understand why Wade's comments are so wrong when he said the leagues superstars are underpaid. If Rashard Lewis and Joe Johnson are getting paid $20+ million/year and Wade is making $15 million/year then he is actually telling the truth - even though he himself agreed to take less money. Technically, he is underpaid and so is Lebron. They aren't asking for more money, hell they're even willing to accept a little less by dropping the BRI from 57% to 53% - they're just making sure they don't lose too much of what they already make. I don't see whats wrong with that.

topdog
10-01-2011, 07:49 PM
There, fixed that for you. Aw shucks, go on- no need to thank me.

Good question about Wade. Do you know the answer? Hmmm.

Glass house+stone=:facepalm:

And how many owners showed up looking like Spike Lee? Two is two too many. If I'm anyone in the union, I'm calling those two players out and saying "do you want to be taken seriously? You're not coming in." Dress to impress.

I don't know and I'm not trying to speculate as others are. I can take an actual quote (or at least what is being reported as one) and say that I think it is really and inflammatory way of dressing whatever Wade took to be disrespect. Others who have started this thread off want to impose upon this story that Stern somehow insulted/berated Wade. Where is that in the report?

I don't know why people are taking this so personally. Is Wade your son or something? :D

SwatTeam
10-01-2011, 07:51 PM
We already know that Lebron, Melo, ect. are behind the players union. They've said it themselves. They've talked the talk about playing overseas if necessary. Them being at the meeting does nothing for the cause. Guys like Fisher and other team representatives (Tolliver is one), are the guys who should be talking because they have something to say. They are the one's who worked to prepare players for the lockout and they are the ones who truly make the negotiation about the union rather than superstars and "big 3s."

My mention of journeymen is not narrow-minded. I did not make blanket statements saying "all journeymen are more well-spoken than superstars" or "NBA stars are mentally and verbally challenged." What I am saying is look into who your team's union rep is and ask yourself "where's Kobe?" "where's Amare?" Most NBA players leave negotiations to their agents so they shouldn't start trying to play negotiator because a new CBA is being forged. Further, have you heard a post-game interview lately? Not everyone, but a lot of good NBA players have no role in public speaking.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe using the big guns is a better negotiating ploy vs your opinion of letting well spoken journeymen or professional negotiators go up against the owners (who I don't believe will get the owners to stop imposing their will upon the union). Everyone has their opinions and I respect yours although I strongly disagree with it. Good healthy discussion. Cheers.

topdog
10-01-2011, 07:54 PM
I really don't understand why Wade's comments are so wrong when he said the leagues superstars are underpaid. If Rashard Lewis and Joe Johnson are getting paid $20+ million/year and Wade is making $15 million/year then he is actually telling the truth - even though he himself agreed to take less money. Technically, he is underpaid and so is Lebron. They aren't asking for more money, hell they're even willing to accept a little less by dropping the BRI from 57% to 53% - they're just making sure they don't lose too much of what they already make. I don't see whats wrong with that.

Truth here is subjective. If Joe Johnson has to carry a greater load on his team than Wade who has superstar help, is Wade really underpaid? Further, can you really be underpaid if you choose to be so paid?

Finally, no one who makes $15M a year should call themselves underpaid. It's a slap in the face to regular joes who in some cases risk their jobs on a daily basis to make $1M over a lifetime. There are people who really do "have a family to feed."

topdog
10-01-2011, 07:55 PM
We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe using the big guns is a better negotiating ploy vs your opinion of letting well spoken journeymen or professional negotiators go up against the owners (who I don't believe will get the owners to stop imposing their will upon the union). Everyone has their opinions and I respect yours although I strongly disagree with it. Good healthy discussion. Cheers.

Agreed. :cheers:

llemon
10-01-2011, 08:21 PM
I'm not assuming anything. You guys need to stop trying to be TMZ and digging for things that aren't there in my posts, or twisting stuff into things that I haven't said.

I've not said once that Jordan wasn't a good player. I don't even know how this got to be the main point of the conversation, it has little-to-nothing to do with him.

What is TMZ?

JonnyBrav000
10-01-2011, 08:24 PM
Lol I love how you posted this as if it was a legitimate empowering of the players. It wasn't, just Wade being a baby.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. How is that Wade being a baby?

Wade is just expressing himself and making his feelings known. I wouldn't say this is a power move, but good for Wade anyhow, David Stern is such a prick and a douche bag, i would love to hear about more guys sharing their true feelings on this guy. Many NFL players did it, the fans also reacted and booed the crap out of him, Stern and the owners deserve the same treatment. However I would never agree that players are underpaid, but fair is fair, when billions are at stake, the talent deserves their share because no one shows up to watch only the name on the jersey, if that was the case fans would abandon the nba and attend d-league games.

My point is F stern and the owners.

SteBO
10-01-2011, 08:37 PM
I believe Wade's outburst was a result of Stern pointing directly to him, so I don't see how anyone can lump the players together in this case. We don't know what Stern said, so we don't know if Wade reacting the way he did was warranted or not. If that's the case however, how can anyone get on Wade for reacting the way he did if you don't know what was said in the meetings? I've read quite a few double standards and leaps in this thread and I can't really understand why.

And are we seriously criticizing the way the players dress to these meetings now? :laugh2: Now I know some of you are just grasping at straws to get on these guys while they're bigger issues to discuss. It's kinda sad really.

Tony_Starks
10-01-2011, 08:47 PM
Truth here is subjective. If Joe Johnson has to carry a greater load on his team than Wade who has superstar help, is Wade really underpaid? Further, can you really be underpaid if you choose to be so paid?

Finally, no one who makes $15M a year should call themselves underpaid. It's a slap in the face to regular joes who in some cases risk their jobs on a daily basis to make $1M over a lifetime. There are people who really do "have a family to feed."


Regular Joes don't generate billions of dollars of worldwide revenue for their jobs. There's no comparing a professional athlete to a normal working person. I doubt he meant that they were underpaid in the sense that they're starving but when you look the enormous impact these stars have on the nba brand the owners have nothing to complain about. They wanted to have a superstar driven league and thats what they have. The players are doing their part i.e. putting the butts in the seats so I don't buy all this need for a radical overhaul stuff.....

I applaud Wade for standing his ground, people act like Stern is the most tactful person in the world. To put it mildly he isn't. It should also be noted that in the last lockout it was reported that Jordan got into a heated screaming match with one of the owners and Wade's incident pailed in comparison so this is nothing new.

BALLER71
10-01-2011, 08:49 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. I get paid 17 million dollars to put a basketball through a net. WAAAAAAAAAAAAH! :cry:

SteBO
10-01-2011, 08:56 PM
Regular Joes don't generate billions of dollars of worldwide revenue for their jobs. There's no comparing a professional athlete to a normal working person. I doubt he meant that they were underpaid in the sense that they're starving but when you look the enormous impact these stars have on the nba brand the owners have nothing to complain about. They wanted to have a superstar driven league and thats what they have. The players are doing their part i.e. putting the butts in the seats so I don't buy all this need for a radical overhaul stuff.....

I applaud Wade for standing his ground, people act like Stern is the most tactful person in the world. To put it mildly he isn't. It should also be noted that in the last lockout it was reported that Jordan got into a heated screaming match with one of the owners and Wade's incident pailed in comparison so this is nothing new.
Precisely. Stern is nothing more than a puppet in these negotiations in my eyes, no different from what Roger Goodell was in the NFL labor dispute. Stern has made it as clear as daylight that he's on the side of the owners, again, no different from Goodell.

I agree with you second paragraph as well. Isn't this what the owners wanted? Now all of a sudden they want to drop the players' BRI from 57% to 46%? Sorry, that's very unreasonable and unfair. The star players make the league, and the moment these owners swallow their pride and come to grips with this, is when we could get a deal done.

daleja424
10-01-2011, 09:04 PM
WAAAAAAAAAAAAH. I get paid 17 million dollars to put a basketball through a net. WAAAAAAAAAAAAH! :cry:

:facepalm:

more like... I get paid 17 million dollars to make 100 million dollars...

GROW UP

topdog
10-01-2011, 09:10 PM
I believe Wade's outburst was a result of Stern pointing directly to him, so I don't see how anyone can lump the players together in this case. We don't know what Stern said, so we don't know if Wade reacting the way he did was warranted or not. If that's the case however, how can anyone get on Wade for reacting the way he did if you don't know what was said in the meetings? I've read quite a few double standards and leaps in this thread and I can't really understand why.

And are we seriously criticizing the way the players dress to these meetings now? :laugh2: Now I know some of you are just grasping at straws to get on these guys while they're bigger issues to discuss. It's kinda sad really.

You just spoke of double standards and this is one. As I wrote earlier, there is a basic level of respect in showing up to a meeting dressed like your there for business rather than like you're about to head down to the unemployment office. I wish one of the owners had shown up in his underwear while fanning himself with a stack of hundreds just because he can.

How can you get on Wade? Because he made such an idiotic inflammatory statement. I can think of so many other ways he could have responded to whatever Stern said. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he didn't take it one step further.

I can honestly say what prompted me to start responding in this thread is that people were generally praising Wade when, again, we don't know what happened. How is it at all a double standard to present Wade as out of line when people are bashing Stern for words that apparently weren't striking enough to make it into the AP article? Again, we only have Wade's phrase and a poorly chosen one at that.

topdog
10-01-2011, 09:13 PM
:facepalm:

more like... I get paid 17 million dollars to make 100 million dollars...

GROW UP

And I get paid $20 an hour to help make a business millions of dolllars. That's capitalism. I'm doing the work i.e. making the revenue, but that can't exist without someone providing the building I work in and providing the warehouse full of goods I sell.

Can we all be grown up here for real? "Facepalms" and insults don't make you any less wrong or any more right.

llemon
10-01-2011, 09:53 PM
And I get paid $20 an hour to help make a business millions of dolllars. That's capitalism. I'm doing the work i.e. making the revenue, but that can't exist without someone providing the building I work in and providing the warehouse full of goods I sell.

Can we all be grown up here for real? "Facepalms" and insults don't make you any less wrong or any more right.

Shouldn't you be giving back 2 or 3 dollars of your hourly wage so that capitalism can work even better?

daleja424
10-01-2011, 09:55 PM
And I get paid $20 an hour to help make a business millions of dolllars. That's capitalism. I'm doing the work i.e. making the revenue, but that can't exist without someone providing the building I work in and providing the warehouse full of goods I sell.

Can we all be grown up here for real? "Facepalms" and insults don't make you any less wrong or any more right.

Really... you personally make million of dollars a year? Really? And you make 20 bucks an hour?

If that is truly the case then you should quit right now and find someone willing to pay you better.

Lets also not forget that the players are both the workers and the product as well...

NBA_Starter
10-01-2011, 09:56 PM
It sounds like this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

llemon
10-01-2011, 10:01 PM
It sounds like this whole thing has been blown out of proportion.

No, I think it has been reported in exactly its correct proportion.

Someone needed to tell Stern what an incredible POS he is, so that Stern might dig up the bodies that he has supposedly buried.

Mr. Wade, I congratulate and admire you.

It should have been Lebron or Kobe that spoke up.

PlezPlayDKnicks
10-01-2011, 10:34 PM
Really... you personally make million of dollars a year? Really? And you make 20 bucks an hour?

If that is truly the case then you should quit right now and find someone willing to pay you better.

Lets also not forget that the players are both the workers and the product as well...

I think u misread or misinterpreted his post

SteBO
10-01-2011, 10:46 PM
You just spoke of double standards and this is one. As I wrote earlier, there is a basic level of respect in showing up to a meeting dressed like your there for business rather than like you're about to head down to the unemployment office. I wish one of the owners had shown up in his underwear while fanning himself with a stack of hundreds just because he can.

How can you get on Wade? Because he made such an idiotic inflammatory statement. I can think of so many other ways he could have responded to whatever Stern said. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he didn't take it one step further.

I can honestly say what prompted me to start responding in this thread is that people were generally praising Wade when, again, we don't know what happened. How is it at all a double standard to present Wade as out of line when people are bashing Stern for words that apparently weren't striking enough to make it into the AP article? Again, we only have Wade's phrase and a poorly chosen one at that.
I think you're having a completely different discussion when it comes to Wade. Are you referring to his "stars are underpaid" comment? If so, then that isn't what I was referring to. I was referencing the fact that he spoke out against Stern. If you don't know what Stern said, you can't praise Wade nor can you get on him for it. That's the double standard I was referring to if you read my post closely.

And the whole "dress to impress" thing was just a little shocking for me to come into this thread and see, especially with more pressing matters to discuss. It just sounds like people here are really reaching for something to get on these players for. I mean, it is what it is. No need to go there for it has nothing to do with what's being talked about.

topdog
10-01-2011, 11:00 PM
Really... you personally make million of dollars a year? Really? And you make 20 bucks an hour?

If that is truly the case then you should quit right now and find someone willing to pay you better.

Lets also not forget that the players are both the workers and the product as well...

1. I said "help" make millions of dollars. "Help." Does Lebron personally make millions of dollars for the league or does he also need people to sell tickets, run security, fly him across the country, ect as well as an arena to play in (the arena is very important seeing as Chris Paul's charity game was a "sellout" with only 3,000 tickets sold). Oh, and Lebron needs someone to play against... and it can't be the same people all the time...

2. Job market. Where else are players going to make crazy money like they do in the NBA? A couple could maybe get some high-end Greek contracts or something, but that's a limited few.

3. The product is the brand - the NBA. If you take away Kobe and Durant, does the NBA still exist? Certainly. The brand persists and continues to be sold for what it is despite the performers changing over time.

topdog
10-01-2011, 11:35 PM
I think you're having a completely different discussion when it comes to Wade. Are you referring to his "stars are underpaid" comment? If so, then that isn't what I was referring to. I was referencing the fact that he spoke out against Stern. If you don't know what Stern said, you can't praise Wade nor can you get on him for it. That's the double standard I was referring to if you read my post closely.

And the whole "dress to impress" thing was just a little shocking for me to come into this thread and see, especially with more pressing matters to discuss. It just sounds like people here are really reaching for something to get on these players for. I mean, it is what it is. No need to go there for it has nothing to do with what's being talked about.

You can judge Wade. We have the words he said and we have the general context. And it certainly doesn't sound like he was "speaking out" but rather that he was getting defensive. On the other hand, people are making assumptions about what happened based upon how they feel about Stern when all we have is that he pointed a finger in some fashion.

The appearance of the players does relate to what is being discussed in this thread. We were discussing the general lack of professionalism on some players' parts and that perhaps the "superstars" of the league should not be involved in business meetings but rather the union reps for each team. How hard is it to put on a decent shirt and tie for a couple hours? That, to me, is a lack of respect as much as someone finger pointing.

And sorry to take you away from the pressing matters of... um, Stern-bashing? There is literally nothing going on.

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:38 PM
You can judge Wade. We have the words he said and we have the general context. And it certainly doesn't sound like he was "speaking out" but rather that he was getting defensive. On the other hand, people are making assumptions about what happened based upon how they feel about Stern when all we have is that he pointed a finger in some fashion.

The appearance of the players does relate to what is being discussed in this thread. We were discussing the general lack of professionalism on some players' parts and that perhaps the "superstars" of the league should not be involved in business meetings but rather the union reps for each team. How hard is it to put on a decent shirt and tie for a couple hours? That, to me, is a lack of respect as much as someone finger pointing.

And sorry to take you away from the pressing matters of... um, Stern-bashing? There is literally nothing going on.

Has the ultra-professional Stern dug up the bodies whose locations he knows, because he buried them, that POS.

LakersIn5
10-02-2011, 06:45 AM
i watch the NBA because of its players not the owners and guys like stern. good job by wade

LakersIn5
10-02-2011, 06:47 AM
:facepalm:

More like... I get paid 17 million dollars to make 100 million dollars...

Grow up

this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

daleja424
10-02-2011, 08:51 AM
1. I said "help" make millions of dollars. "Help." Does Lebron personally make millions of dollars for the league or does he also need people to sell tickets, run security, fly him across the country, ect as well as an arena to play in (the arena is very important seeing as Chris Paul's charity game was a "sellout" with only 3,000 tickets sold). Oh, and Lebron needs someone to play against... and it can't be the same people all the time...

2. Job market. Where else are players going to make crazy money like they do in the NBA? A couple could maybe get some high-end Greek contracts or something, but that's a limited few.

3. The product is the brand - the NBA. If you take away Kobe and Durant, does the NBA still exist? Certainly. The brand persists and continues to be sold for what it is despite the performers changing over time.

1. Yes, Lebron personally makes millions of dollars. He is the product. Sure there are some people whose job it is to sell him as a product, but those people are dime a dozen. People do not pay 100 dollars to speak to the ticket guy, or buy popcorn from the vendor... they do it for the singular reason that they want to see Lebron and the other players play.

2. The Job market is FAR from an issue. People keep saying there are only a handful of jobs open in other markets... yet even the crappiest NBA players have found work overseas, and the superstars would get paid as much or more over there as they would here. That is a FACT.

3. If you think the product is the NBA brand you are beyond help. Last night thousands of people paid 100 bucks to watch a pickup game with some of the NBA greats. And over a million watched the game on a grainy feed on a noname website. And they did all of that without marketing, without owners, without etc etc etc...and they did it on College Football Saturday...

THE PLAYERS ARE THE BRAND! And that is undeniable.

The players sell tickets, the players sell gear, the players generate tv deals, the players bring in endorsements... the players ARE the league...and to think the it is the other way around is pretty laughable...

Oldmantrash
10-02-2011, 08:59 AM
Has the ultra-professional Stern dug up the bodies whose locations he knows, because he buried them, that POS.

lemon why the hate for Stern.
All commissioners side with the owners .
Elaborate please.

What's the difference between him and any other?

I have no problem with what Wade said. It's all in the heat of the moment, but I don't get the hate for Stern

llemon
10-02-2011, 11:54 AM
lemon why the hate for Stern.
All commissioners side with the owners .
Elaborate please.

What's the difference between him and any other?

I have no problem with what Wade said. It's all in the heat of the moment, but I don't get the hate for Stern

I'm a Union man, and like all management lackeys, Stern is full of crap, and presents himself as if he's something special when he is just a hand puppet trying to hold onto his job.

Does that clear it up?

69centers
10-02-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure there's ever been a sports person I've hated more than Stern. He's so damn smug.

naps
10-03-2011, 10:16 AM
I love Wade for standing tall. He is the only one who has to guts to speak up and he doesn't care who he is talking to as long as he's saying the right thing.

I feel like he just took himself out of Stern's good-book (I doubt he ever was there anyway though). So if LeBron and Wade are virtually tied for any individual award, there goes the tie-breaker.

likemystylez
10-03-2011, 10:21 AM
I love Wade for standing tall. He is the only one who has to guts to speak up and he doesn't care who he is talking to as long as he's saying the right thing.

I feel like he just took himself out of Stern's good-book (I doubt he ever was there anyway though). So if LeBron and Wade are virtually tied for any individual award, there goes the tie-breaker.

Wade gets A LOT of calls for someone who isnt in Sterns good book.

naps
10-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Wade gets A LOT of calls for someone who isnt in Sterns good book.

No he doesn't.

You might just do yourself a favor and stop stalking me in every thread. I don't enjoy someone quoting me who speaks out of hate and jealousy.

basketfan4life
10-03-2011, 10:55 AM
And I get paid $20 an hour to help make a business millions of dolllars. That's capitalism. I'm doing the work i.e. making the revenue, but that can't exist without someone providing the building I work in and providing the warehouse full of goods I sell.

Can we all be grown up here for real? "Facepalms" and insults don't make you any less wrong or any more right.

well this is where you are right,i'm a computer engineer, i design interfaces make database connections, write the codes, my boss sells one screen about 50.000$, i make 5-6 of them every month,so it's about 250k-300k, but i earn only 1.750 a month,and i work my butt off.. his is god damn capitalism, on the other hand, he buys all these tools i need to make these programs work, he has the customers, what can you do?

i don't know bout the superstars but nba player are definitly overpaid.

likemystylez
10-03-2011, 10:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYMqu4CPm3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aySGUzzxjGE&feature=related


Heres one where even Jeff Van Gundy is saying he is getting call... but i guess you know more about hoops than van gundy too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1LPnXrcreg&feature=related

LOL and you'll like this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFA5vSjvzGk

jrm2054
10-03-2011, 11:02 AM
i like the comments

GIANTKNICK
10-03-2011, 11:33 AM
Dwayne wade is such a moron....he IS THEIR EMPLOYEE...which sorry, is almost the same. LOL

with every word out of a Miami heat player, the world is set back about 3 years in intelligence.

Sorry Wade, but you don't know business nor managing any aspect of it...so SHUT THE **** UP.

Do you want someone with a PHD in business telling you how to dribble and shoot? I don't think so...SO SHUT THE **** UP.

Wade is a business in his self. Who told you he doesn't know business. He knows who we all want and its not the owners. Why is everyone mad at the players they are being locked out. These are smart men most players went to college and they understand the game and there value to it.

3mikee_
10-03-2011, 11:51 AM
...Why are people going off on the players... from what I can tell their the ones that are actually making a legitimate effort to move to a more common ground. While the owners are just throwing everything back in their faces.

I don't mind Stern that much though, despite coming off as a smug little prick 90% of the time. He is looking out for the best interest of the owners and it's his job to do that well.

Shmontaine
10-03-2011, 12:31 PM
wow.. this thread is out of control...

this is basically a "i'm on the side of the players, so wade is awesome" or "i'm on the side of the owners, so wade is stupid" thread... good job everyone...

Do i generally side with the reality that the owners are going to 'win' this CBA, yes.. but do i like the owners, or stern?... no

should wade have said something in response to whatever stern did? yes
should wade have done what he did in the meetings? no.
did it help the relationship with the owners? no.

as i read through this thread, i was reminded of the the LJ and dan gilbert back and forth last off-season... this was a much much smaller deal than LJ and DG.. but they have some similarities IMO..

LJ was vilified for leaving cleveland the way he did and was initially seen as the 'bad' guy, ala stern in the meetings saying whatever he said and 'pointing his finger' at wade... but then, giblert puts out that ridiculous statement on his website and is seen as moron and provides many with justification for LJ's action to leave cleveland, ala wade reacting to stern in a completely unprofessional way and basically nullifying his claim of 'not being a child'...

there are ways to handle yourself that get your message across (not being a child, stern being an ***) without becoming exactly what your claiming not to be... wade gave many people reason to conclude that he exactly a child not acting professionally... while stern is a bully, tough talking person, he doesn't take a personal tone to anything he does...

wade acted like an unprofessional child reacting the way he did IMO... so, whatever stern said, wade didn't do himself or his fellow players any favors in the negotiating process with his comments... I'm sure most will disagree with me here, but whatever, it's not the first time, and won't be the last...

Da Knicks
10-03-2011, 12:58 PM
I really think that the nba needs to fix the tv money first before anything else. Lakers and Knicks have to give some money back, small markets need some of that money too. I think the players get paid alright but not the stars, Wade is right stars are underpaid. How much is Wade worth to the heat? the season he was injured the building was empty and Micky Arrison lost a lot of money. Im willing to bet that Kobe, Lebron would be valued at about 60 to 100 million dollars per season. The problem the nba has is that scrubs get paid like these stars do but who gave them that contract again? The freakin owners.

My thing is drop the mid-level exeption down to about 4 million so that the strong teams dont just sign stars and keep ballooning the payroll. Also the vet min should be dropped to about 500 or 750 thousand. The owners are not losing as much as they are saying but they should make a lil more because they are the ones supplying everything for these entertainers. The star players are what make the nba go, without the stars it will be just like another poster pointed out. another mls no superstars no fans...

sammid21
10-03-2011, 01:33 PM
First off, none of the Heat players should complain about being underpaid. they wanted to win a title so they took a pay cut. So stop *****ing. Wade is a moron, he couldve had more money thru advertising himself instead of becoming a villian along with the other 2 players. Thats how the Jordans, Kobes and Shaqs got paid, they became the face of the league.

Not being a hater or anything but I bet some owners on small market teams saw what happened last off season and now want stricter rules against super teams because the Twolves, pacers, and bobcats of the legue will always be bottom dwellers. With a hard cap these owners are trying to be able to bring superstars to their teams by giving max contracts to players since most teams wont be able to afford more than 2 max players on their teams.

Missing56&33
10-03-2011, 01:38 PM
Dwade ****ed up, just like he and his boy did in the Finals. :pity:

SportsFanatic10
10-03-2011, 01:59 PM
lol i love how critical chicago fans are of wade.

SportsFanatic10
10-03-2011, 02:02 PM
of course when jordan did it he wasn't a baby though....he was a leader haha. bulls fans just hate wade cuz he didn't wanna play for them, get over it!

Shmontaine
10-03-2011, 02:15 PM
lol i love how critical chicago fans are of wade.

wade is what this thread is about... if it was derrick fisher who said these things, my response would be the same... if it was drose who said these things, my response would be the same...


of course when jordan did it he wasn't a baby though....he was a leader haha. bulls fans just hate wade cuz he didn't wanna play for them, get over it!

what did jordan say?? did he say, "don't point at me, i'm not a child!"... umm, no. he told the owners to trust the NBAPA union negotiators...

and no, i don't 'hate' because i wanted him to play for chicago... i criticize dumb moves by all, it just so happens dwade said these dumb things...

justinnum1
10-03-2011, 02:39 PM
lol

llemon
10-03-2011, 02:57 PM
wade is what this thread is about... if it was derrick fisher who said these things, my response would be the same... if it was drose who said these things, my response would be the same...



what did jordan say?? did he say, "don't point at me, i'm not a child!"... umm, no. he told the owners to trust the NBAPA union negotiators...

and no, i don't 'hate' because i wanted him to play for chicago... i criticize dumb moves by all, it just so happens dwade said these dumb things...

Seems Wade's words have started things flowing.

I'm proud of Dwayne Wade.

SCREW STERN.

ink
10-03-2011, 03:01 PM
lemon why the hate for Stern.
All commissioners side with the owners .
Elaborate please.

What's the difference between him and any other?

I have no problem with what Wade said. It's all in the heat of the moment, but I don't get the hate for Stern

Neither do I.

Shmontaine
10-03-2011, 03:05 PM
Seems Wade's words have started things flowing.

I'm proud of Dwayne Wade.

SCREW STERN.

i have no idea how you gathered that.. i believe the reports said nothing was gained by the meetings...

it's okay to be proud of wade, go ahead. but it's not going to get things resolved any faster IMO... if you just dislike stern so much that your happy someone told him off, fine... i'm a bigger fan of bball than hater of stern...

i realize the owners will get what they want in this CBA, and the sooner the players realize it, the sooner we have bball... everyone will still be rich, don't worry about anyone here...

i just want bball, and wade's comments haven't moved us any closer towards that end...

championships
10-03-2011, 03:26 PM
Well if Wade doesnt like making millions playing in the nba, He can take his cry baby *** somewhere else

LOOTERX9
10-03-2011, 03:46 PM
Well if Wade doesnt like making millions playing in the nba, He can take his cry baby *** somewhere else


I kinda agree with this, but Stern is a tyrant *** hole also. So yes Wade is a crying millionaire but **** stern..

HeaTxRipZz
10-03-2011, 04:23 PM
i have no idea how you gathered that.. i believe the reports said nothing was gained by the meetings...

it's okay to be proud of wade, go ahead. but it's not going to get things resolved any faster IMO... if you just dislike stern so much that your happy someone told him off, fine... i'm a bigger fan of bball than hater of stern...

i realize the owners will get what they want in this CBA, and the sooner the players realize it, the sooner we have bball... everyone will still be rich, don't worry about anyone here...

i just want bball, and wade's comments haven't moved us any closer towards that end...

Not sure how you came to that conclussion as far as the owners getting everything they want in the new CBA. I just read the other day on how CP3, Lebron, Wade and others have said they have no problem sitting out the whole season rather than giving into the owners any more.

Shmontaine
10-03-2011, 04:59 PM
Not sure how you came to that conclussion as far as the owners getting everything they want in the new CBA. I just read the other day on how CP3, Lebron, Wade and others have said they have no problem sitting out the whole season rather than giving into the owners any more.

If the players really want to put pressure on the owners, sitting out a year doesn't do it...

find some other way to make money instead of depending on the owners... as long as the players are dependent on the owners for their income, they will lose... there are far more players than the top 25 or whatever that would be okay with sitting out... if the bottom 300 players want a deal done, it gets done.. the top players mean relatively little in their ability to wait a year... the lower players need the money and they will want a resolution...

i've said this for a while now, the players need to develop another source of income outside the nba, which is completely possible for them... start a business or something, but do something that actually makes the owners think they will lose the players... because right now, the nba owners are calling the shots...

LOOTERX9
10-03-2011, 05:19 PM
Not sure how you came to that conclussion as far as the owners getting everything they want in the new CBA. I just read the other day on how CP3, Lebron, Wade and others have said they have no problem sitting out the whole season rather than giving into the owners any more.

Haha! and these millionaire players will destroy their league if they were to sit out entire season. The backlash would be extremely bad for NBA. These players have no real leverage here. I want players to get what they want but the owners have the right to make a profit from their investment and cutting the checks to the players

Knick4Knack
10-03-2011, 06:33 PM
If the players really want to put pressure on the owners, sitting out a year doesn't do it...

find some other way to make money instead of depending on the owners... as long as the players are dependent on the owners for their income, they will lose... there are far more players than the top 25 or whatever that would be okay with sitting out... if the bottom 300 players want a deal done, it gets done.. the top players mean relatively little in their ability to wait a year... the lower players need the money and they will want a resolution...

i've said this for a while now, the players need to develop another source of income outside the nba, which is completely possible for them... start a business or something, but do something that actually makes the owners think they will lose the players... because right now, the nba owners are calling the shots...

EHHNT!:facepalm:

The lower teir players actually have more to lose in this round of negotiations. If the hard cap is instituted, to the satisfaction of the owners, then teams would not guarantee the amount of contracts that they do now. Those unguaranteed contracts would take place at the lower teir level. Do you really think they want to jump right in and start playing under unguaranteed contracts. I don't think so.

As far as Wade and his professionalism, look: Stern started all of this heavy handed garbage (at the allstar game with his screaming and shouting and talk of burying dead bodies when it was hinted that the players might not play in protest). Why do you constantly call Wade unprofessional, when you fail to address that Stern was talking to Wade in a raised voice and pointing at him, and Wade responded by telling Stern in a raised voice "not to point at him, because he wasn't his child"? Wade responded in kind. He did not threaten Stern, only pointed out that his level of disrespect was not appropriate. Would Stern have taken that unprofessional tone with Buss, Sarver, Gilbert or Dolan. Heck no. In negotiations, you must start from an equal level of respect, otherwise, one side is at a disadvantage.

In a previous post, I go into the events of the '98 lockout. Jordan and Steve Kerr both went rounds with Stern. Sometimes, a bully wont respect you unless you push back.

llemon
10-03-2011, 06:39 PM
Haha! and these millionaire players will destroy their league if they were to sit out entire season. The backlash would be extremely bad for NBA. These players have no real leverage here. I want players to get what they want but the owners have the right to make a profit from their investment and cutting the checks to the players

Here is where you are wrong. The owners DO NOT have THE RIGHT to make a profit. They have the OPPORTUNITY to make a profit, if they run their business properly, just like EVERY OTHER OWNER OF EVERY OTHER business.

Knick4Knack
10-03-2011, 06:54 PM
Here is where you are wrong. The owners DO NOT have THE RIGHT to make a profit. They have the OPPORTUNITY to make a profit, if they run their business properly, just like EVERY OTHER OWNER OF EVERY OTHER business.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!

llemon, your logic aint sour, it's sweet!!!!:D

I agree that the key point here is that sound management ALSO plays a major role in profitability.

When Stern makes blanket statements like "all NBA team owners deserve to see a return on their investment", he is mistaken...

Owners deserve a fair OPPORTUNITY to see a return. Poorly managed teams should pay the price.

topdog
10-03-2011, 07:53 PM
1. Yes, Lebron personally makes millions of dollars. He is the product. Sure there are some people whose job it is to sell him as a product, but those people are dime a dozen. People do not pay 100 dollars to speak to the ticket guy, or buy popcorn from the vendor... they do it for the singular reason that they want to see Lebron and the other players play.

Why do they want to see Lebron play? Hmm? Because of the NBA. Being a great basketball player only has value because there is a product - the NBA which people know and consume.


2. The Job market is FAR from an issue. People keep saying there are only a handful of jobs open in other markets... yet even the crappiest NBA players have found work overseas, and the superstars would get paid as much or more over there as they would here. That is a FACT....

That is quite untrue not a "FACT." For one thing, many national leagues limit the number of American players on their teams in order to develop their own talent (which their fanbases love). Basketball is not even close to as popular in other countries as it is here and it therefore it makes no sense for them to give tens of millions of dollars to a single player for more than a short novelty period. Non-NBA stars find work because they are willing to commit to overseas contracts. If there was that much money overseas, star players would take the best offer if it were more than the NBA (that's not the case though).


3. If you think the product is the NBA brand you are beyond help. Last night thousands of people paid 100 bucks to watch a pickup game with some of the NBA greats. And over a million watched the game on a grainy feed on a noname website. And they did all of that without marketing, without owners, without etc etc etc...and they did it on College Football Saturday...

THE PLAYERS ARE THE BRAND! And that is undeniable.

The players sell tickets, the players sell gear, the players generate tv deals, the players bring in endorsements... the players ARE the league...and to think the it is the other way around is pretty laughable...

Why do people care? Because it is the best LEAGUE in the world and it's streaming through their satelites on a nightly basis. Did people stop watching the NBA when Jordan retired? Will they stop watching when Lebron is gone? Will they stop buying jerseys when Kobe's no longer a Laker? No. Because while they may have a particular affinity for a certain player, they are watching the NBA. They are buying their favorite NBA player's jersey. The players may change but the love for the game remains the same.

Which came first: Lebron or the NBA? Which will be around longer? Right - the NBA.

Jay
10-03-2011, 09:32 PM
Here is where you are wrong. The owners DO NOT have THE RIGHT to make a profit. They have the OPPORTUNITY to make a profit, if they run their business properly, just like EVERY OTHER OWNER OF EVERY OTHER business.

Holy ****, somebody actually made some sense here.

coryd238
10-03-2011, 10:28 PM
Welp, Heat won't be winning a championship anytime soon :laugh2:

naps
10-05-2011, 12:38 AM
Welp, Heat won't be winning a championship anytime soon :laugh2:

Sure because the Nuggets will. Two teams can't win one championship.

Voodoo Alchemy
10-05-2011, 12:42 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/no_ball_movement_MVqLEVt8UYKRfpbTgddc6M


We all know how David Stern always look down on NBA players, well Wade wasn't having any of that. Word is, Stern pointed at D Wade but When Wade proceeded to put a beat-down on the old dude, Melo restrained him. Stern has to be thought a lesson, the NBA is no country for old man.

you also understand that stern basically saved the nba from the brink.

Voodoo Alchemy
10-05-2011, 12:47 AM
Why do they want to see Lebron play? Hmm? Because of the NBA. Being a great basketball player only has value because there is a product - the NBA which people know and consume.



That is quite untrue not a "FACT." For one thing, many national leagues limit the number of American players on their teams in order to develop their own talent (which their fanbases love). Basketball is not even close to as popular in other countries as it is here and it therefore it makes no sense for them to give tens of millions of dollars to a single player for more than a short novelty period. Non-NBA stars find work because they are willing to commit to overseas contracts. If there was that much money overseas, star players would take the best offer if it were more than the NBA (that's not the case though).



Why do people care? Because it is the best LEAGUE in the world and it's streaming through their satelites on a nightly basis. Did people stop watching the NBA when Jordan retired? Will they stop watching when Lebron is gone? Will they stop buying jerseys when Kobe's no longer a Laker? No. Because while they may have a particular affinity for a certain player, they are watching the NBA. They are buying their favorite NBA player's jersey. The players may change but the love for the game remains the same.

Which came first: Lebron or the NBA? Which will be around longer? Right - the NBA.

agree with your points. players are allowed to thrive both in and outside the nba. without the league, you have nothing.

some other poster suggested that a spin off league could be assembled and pick up where the nba left off. pure none sense, how can you argue with someone that child like to the ways of the world?

knicks_champ
10-05-2011, 12:55 AM
We all know who's not going to get calls this season.. haha!

Voodoo Alchemy
10-05-2011, 12:56 AM
Haha! and these millionaire players will destroy their league if they were to sit out entire season. The backlash would be extremely bad for NBA. These players have no real leverage here. I want players to get what they want but the owners have the right to make a profit from their investment and cutting the checks to the players

i'm not so sure about that statement.

it would hurt basketball for a while. keep in mind, you always get a new crop of players that will be tomorrow's superstars.

let's assume all top level players sat out, there would still be basketball and fans would still attend the games because they are die hard fans of their respective franchise.

look at golden state, they don't have a true superstar but still manage to attract fans. also, i think fans are tired of hearing these wealthy players crying about not making enough when the average person is having a hard time.

futureman
10-05-2011, 09:37 AM
Just shut up and play Wade. You are already earning way more than an ingrate like you deserves. I'm going to start issuing bomb threats if the players don't reach an agreement. I have a few hospitals in mind.

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 10:52 AM
EHHNT!:facepalm:

The lower teir players actually have more to lose in this round of negotiations. If the hard cap is instituted, to the satisfaction of the owners, then teams would not guarantee the amount of contracts that they do now. Those unguaranteed contracts would take place at the lower teir level. Do you really think they want to jump right in and start playing under unguaranteed contracts. I don't think so.

right, and those same players don't have the luxury of waiting around for the CBA to go in their favor. they have lower income and when push comes to shove, they will sign whatever CBA is in front of them because it will give them a paycheck.


As far as Wade and his professionalism, look: Stern started all of this heavy handed garbage (at the allstar game with his screaming and shouting and talk of burying dead bodies when it was hinted that the players might not play in protest). Why do you constantly call Wade unprofessional, when you fail to address that Stern was talking to Wade in a raised voice and pointing at him, and Wade responded by telling Stern in a raised voice "not to point at him, because he wasn't his child"? Wade responded in kind. He did not threaten Stern, only pointed out that his level of disrespect was not appropriate. Would Stern have taken that unprofessional tone with Buss, Sarver, Gilbert or Dolan. Heck no. In negotiations, you must start from an equal level of respect, otherwise, one side is at a disadvantage.

sorry if you don't see a difference between a raised voice and finger point to someone yelling 'don't point at me'... i'm not saying stern was right, i'm saying wade was unprofessional and nullified his claim with his statement... wade made this about him, when it's about everyone... he could've said anything else with much more professionalism, and therefore would've made stern look worse.. instead, he brought himself down to or even below sterns level with his comments...


In a previous post, I go into the events of the '98 lockout. Jordan and Steve Kerr both went rounds with Stern. Sometimes, a bully wont respect you unless you push back.


Jordan didn't say anything about himself being disrespected... he argued that the owners weren't trusting the negotiators and they should run their businesses better... I don't know why you think the two comments are comparable... they aren't. wade felt like stern disrespected him personally, and acted in kind... great, this isn't about wade, and he should've known better... you obviously have never been in a business meeting...


Here is where you are wrong. The owners DO NOT have THE RIGHT to make a profit. They have the OPPORTUNITY to make a profit, if they run their business properly, just like EVERY OTHER OWNER OF EVERY OTHER business.

but the players have the 'right' to get guaranteed contracts, regardless of performance or participation??? nice double standard you have here... why not have the players get the OPPORTUNITY to earn millions of dollars dependent on their level of play and participation???

beasted86
10-05-2011, 11:07 AM
but the players have the 'right' to get guaranteed contracts, regardless of performance or participation??? nice double standard you have here... why not have the players get the OPPORTUNITY to earn millions of dollars dependent on their level of play and participation???

The owners are stupid enough to sign them to fully guaranteed, non-incentive based contracts. You do know that it was fully legal, and possible to sign players to that type of contract under the old CBA, right?

And BTW, there are stipulations in the contract of what a player has to do to earn it. A player has to show up to practice, has to take an effort in playing the game and so forth. Players have been fined for sitting out games, or I forget how they word it again, but something like "acting as a detriment to the team" they can get fined for that too. But the moron fans with this idea that because a player gets injured and becomes half of the player they were before should not be paid are completely crazy. I'd love to see you get injured on your job, and see how it feels if the workmen's compensation office calls you and says "you're not getting anymore checks from us because you got injured and can no longer work".

Injuries happen. Players like Michael Redd and Jermaine O'Neal were top 15 players. They made legitimate attempts to recover and return to playing as best they could. If the owner gets saddled with paying the player because they were injured too bad. There is actually a stipulation in the player insurance that they can waive them if the injury is overly severe like Darius Miles' case, but otherwise if a player can play they have to pay them.

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 11:19 AM
The owners are stupid enough to sign them to fully guaranteed, non-incentive based contracts. You do know that it was fully legal, and possible to sign players to that type of contract under the old CBA, right?

And BTW, there are stipulations in the contract of what a player has to do to earn it. A player has to show up to practice, has to take an effort in playing the game and so forth. Players have been fined for sitting out games, or I forget how they word it again, but something like "acting as a detriment to the team" they can get fined for that too. But the moron fans with this idea that because a player gets injured and becomes half of the player they were before should not be paid are completely crazy. I'd love to see you get injured on your job, and see how it feels if the workmen's compensation office calls you and says "you're not getting anymore checks from us because you got injured and can no longer work".

Injuries happen. Players like Michael Redd and Jermaine O'Neal were top 15 players. They made legitimate attempts to recover and return to playing as best they could. If the owner gets saddled with paying the player because they were injured too bad. There is actually a stipulation in the player insurance that they can waive them if the injury is overly severe like Darius Miles' case, but otherwise if a player can play they have to pay them.

Please tell me what state offers 100% workmen's compensation?? i'd love to see it..


All workmens compensation laws require insurers to pay a portion of lost wages due to a work-related disability. Regardless of disability classification, carriers are generally required to pay no less than 66 2/3 of a claimant's lost wages up to a set dollar maximum for the duration of their disability or a set number of weeks.
http://www.workmanscompinsurance.net/laws.html

beasted86
10-05-2011, 11:36 AM
Please tell me what state offers 100% workmen's compensation?? i'd love to see it..

http://www.workmanscompinsurance.net/laws.html

I have received 100% workmen's compensation before for an injury, so I don't know what you are talking about. The link you provided clearly states no less than 66.6% of their wage up to a maximum payout. If you haven't recovered after the maximum payout, you have the entire legal right to sue them for the rest... it happens ALL the time, and employers either settle or have to pay the full amount.

And the NBA insurance policy on players has a provision for the owners to only pay a portion if the player misses a certain amount of games (I believe if over 41 games).

SteBO
10-05-2011, 11:41 AM
but the players have the 'right' to get guaranteed contracts, regardless of performance or participation??? nice double standard you have here... why not have the players get the OPPORTUNITY to earn millions of dollars dependent on their level of play and participation???
I totally get what you're saying and you're exactly right. I think llemon was trying to say was that owners don't have the right to guarantee themselves profits, which is something that never happens in any other American business.

To the bolded: That's fair, but injuries happen and the owners are the ones taking the chance signing players for x amount of dollars. If a player gets injured in the duration of his contract, how can anyone fault or punish the player? At the end of the day, it's on the owners to make the smart moves whether it's considering one's injury history, level of play in years prior, etc....

Bravo95
10-05-2011, 11:47 AM
You should never point your finger at a someone unless you're ready to fight.

Here is where you are wrong. The owners DO NOT have THE RIGHT to make a profit. They have the OPPORTUNITY to make a profit, if they run their business properly, just like EVERY OTHER OWNER OF EVERY OTHER business.
Yes.

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 11:51 AM
I have received 100% workmen's compensation before for an injury, so I don't know what you are talking about. The link you provided clearly states no less than 66.6% of their wage up to a maximum payout. If you haven't recovered after the maximum payout, you have the entire legal right to sue them for the rest... it happens ALL the time, and employers either settle or have to pay the full amount.

And the NBA insurance policy on players has a provision for the owners to only pay a portion if the player misses a certain amount of games (I believe if over 41 games).

i'm no expert on WC, so i'll take your word for it... my point is, players get benefits most americans do not... they get fully guaranteed contracts no matter what... to say the teams have the option to make contracts non-guaranteed is crazy... no player would sign with said team if others are offering guarantees...

the players have had it very very good for a decade or so IMO...

beasted86
10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
i'm no expert on WC, so i'll take your word for it... my point is, players get benefits most americans do not... they get fully guaranteed contracts no matter what... to say the teams have the option to make contracts non-guaranteed is crazy... no player would sign with said team if others are offering guarantees...

the players have had it very very good for a decade or so IMO...

That's the fault of the owners themselves.

Robert Sarver the suns owner was willing to pay Amare the max, but only with non-guarantees & team options. Sarver wouldn't budge so Amare went to NY. If Amare blows his knee out in his next game, I will not feel sorry at all for James Dolan, let Amare cripple the Knicks' cap space for all I care.

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 11:57 AM
I totally get what you're saying and you're exactly right. I think llemon was trying to say was that owners don't have the right to guarantee themselves profits, which is something that never happens in any other American business.

To the bolded: That's fair, but injuries happen and the owners are the ones taking the chance signing players for x amount of dollars. If a player gets injured in the duration of his contract, how can anyone fault or punish the player? At the end of the day, it's on the owners to make the smart moves whether it's considering one's injury history, level of play in years prior, etc....

what the owners do have, is a right to structure their business that best puts them in a position to maximize earning potential... it doesn't have to be 'fair' or even reasonable... it would be nice, but it's not a requirement.. the fact is, the owners have all the power here IMO, and they will get the restructure they seek...

and i agree the owners need to be smarter, but even with this new CBA, the vast majority of players will still be overpaid IMO... and the to 5% of players will have endorsements to 'cover' their paycut...

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 11:59 AM
That's the fault of the owners themselves.

Robert Sarver the suns owner was willing to pay Amare the max, but only with non-guarantees & team options. Sarver wouldn't budge so Amare went to NY. If Amare blows his knee out in his next game, I will not feel sorry at all for James Dolan, let Amare cripple the Knicks' cap space for all I care.

this 'fault' of the owners has been to the complete 'benefit' of the players... the owners are just trying to reduce the benefit the players get...

beasted86
10-05-2011, 12:06 PM
this 'fault' of the owners has been to the complete 'benefit' of the players... the owners are just trying to reduce the benefit the players get...

No, it's surely the fault of the owners if they are already in a financial bind, then go out and give Brendan Haywood $55M, and Travis Outlaw $40M.

They will eventually get a large concession by the players (57% down to possibly 50-51%), then 5-6 years later opt out of this very same deal and claim they are still losing money and the players should take even less.

Shmontaine
10-05-2011, 12:14 PM
No, it's surely the fault of the owners if they are already in a financial bind, then go out and give Brendan Haywood $55M, and Travis Outlaw $40M.

They will eventually get a large concession by the players (57% down to possibly 50-51%), then 5-6 years later opt out of this very same deal and claim they are still losing money and the players should take even less.

I just don't know how you can't see that haywood getting 55 mill and outlaw getting 40 mill isn't them benefiting....

and how is it you assume that the owners will be the ones crying foul in 6 years?? there are ebbs and flows to this process... in the 80's and 90's it was the players crying foul, then in the 00's it the owners... who's to say it won't be the players in the late 2010's??