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spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 10:03 PM
Next time youíre positive you know who is going to get cut with the coming NBA amnesty clause, remember this: In 2005 it was nicknamed the Allan Houston clause after the wildly overpaid Knicks guard. Except the Knicks didnít cut him.

We donít know who will get cut this time around, but we have heard an amnesty clause that allows a team to wipe a player off the official payroll (luxury tax and salary cap) is almost a certainty in the new labor deal. Itís a one time shot.

Remember ó the players will still get paid. The amnesty will wipe a playerís salary off the official books, but this is a signed contract and the checks will keep flowing. Chris Bernucca at Sheridan hoops is right ó this is essentially a do-over for the wealthy teams and gives overpaid players a chance to still get paid and sign with a contender for less. But if you were smart with your contracts and managed your budget, this doesnít help you at all. As always, the owners just want protection from themselves.

Here are our guesses for the eight guys most likely cut, plus one interesting scenario in the Pacific Northwest.

Richard Hamilton, Detroit Pistons. He is owed two years, $25.3 million. In theory they could keep him around to trade him, but there hasnít been much of a market for him in the past year ó and the market will shrink with the new labor deal.

Rashard Lewis, Washington Wizards. He is owed two years, $43.8 million. He may be the poster child for the amnesty clause. He also can still contribute and some team is going to get him for a song and he will help them (Miami may be the most likely).

Gilbert Arenas, Orlando Magic. He is owed three years, $54.3 million. They have a few choices, such as Hedo Turkoglu (three years, $34.8 million), but Arenas has the worst deal. Orlando needs to shed salary and bring in talent if they have any hope of keeping Dwight Howard after next summer.

Baron Davis, Cleveland Cavaliers. He is owned two years, $28.6 million. I know he is excited to mentor Kyrie Irving, but the Clippers were desperate to get rid of him (giving up the pick that became Irving) to stop him from mentoring their young team.

Brendan Haywood, Dallas Mavericks. He is owed five years, $45.3 million. The Mavericks gave him a big deal, then it turned out Tyson Chandler was the big deal they really needed. Dallas will bring back Chandler and let Haywood go, but he is still a solid center who can help some teams.

Luke Walton, Los Angeles Lakers. He is owed two years, $11.4 million. Another guy with NBA game that can help another team. He was a good triangle fit but may not work with the Mike Brown offense, plus the Lakers are going to need to trim salary whatever the new system is.

Travis Outlaw, New Jersey Nets. He is owed four years, $28 million. That he played just shy of 30 minutes a game last season in New Jersey speaks to the Nets roster issues. He is not part of the future and the Nets could use the cap space to maneuver.

Andris Biedrins, Golden State Warriors. He is owed three years, $27 million. He was going to be the center of the future, but his confidence fell apart faster than his free throw form. Or maybe they collapsed together. Either way, this franchise needs a change in the middle.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/29/eight-guys-likely-waived-under-new-cba-amnesty-clause/

heattiltheend94
09-29-2011, 10:21 PM
love the idea of an amnesty clause. It allows players to still get paid, but doesn't kill franchise for making huge mistake

DoMeFavors
09-29-2011, 10:22 PM
Lewis, Haywood, Rip can be good pickups for contendors

llemon
09-29-2011, 10:27 PM
love the idea of an amnesty clause. It allows players to still get paid, but doesn't kill franchise for making huge mistake

Just unrewards the FOs that have actually been doing a good job.

Whatta woild.

asandhu23
09-29-2011, 10:27 PM
Andris Biedrins. We Warriors fans wonder what happened to that dude. he used to average 10 points 10 rebounds... with a great FG percentage...

kntresistheheat
09-29-2011, 10:28 PM
Lewis most likely to Miami?? I don't know how I feel about that? :/

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 10:30 PM
Andris Biedrins. We Warriors fans wonder what happened to that dude. he used to average 10 points 10 rebounds... with a great FG percentage...

I think the raps could use him,god knows they love tall thin white euro's..why is his FT percentage so bad,isnt it like 14% or somethin like that lol

llemon
09-29-2011, 10:30 PM
Andris Biedrins. We Warriors fans wonder what happened to that dude. he used to average 10 points 10 rebounds... with a great FG percentage...

He thrived in Nelson's system

asandhu23
09-29-2011, 10:31 PM
I think the raps could use him,god knows they love tall thin white euro's..why is his FT percentage so bad,isnt it like 14% or somethin like that lol

He was a decent player and BOOM one day he loses all of his skills.

3mikee_
09-29-2011, 10:32 PM
I like it, going to help teams as well as give some players a change of scenery.

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 10:32 PM
So you get paid huge, play with no effort or passion and just call it in and get paid to walk away and sign another deal for about half that money with another team...uh what? how is that a good idea..also when they say one time shot does that mean once a yr?

DoMeFavors
09-29-2011, 10:34 PM
Lewis most likely to Miami?? I don't know how I feel about that? :/

Id feel good the guy is good, his contract is bad right now but without lewis the magic have gotten worse. Lewis is a good 3 point shooter.

Bruno
09-29-2011, 10:35 PM
Waltons contract :facepalm:

If LA hadn't wasted their MLE's on Walton and Sasha they could have afforded to keep Ariza and sign Artest. ouch.

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 10:41 PM
Thank god we got rid of Turkyglu...even though Barbosa hasnt been great Turkoglu has been passed around like a 2 dollar whooooure since leaving the Magic and I can only imagine what kind of shape he will be in after the lockout..hes prob doing a whole lot of this book it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgcyQy9jcc

kntresistheheat
09-29-2011, 10:42 PM
Id feel good the guy is good, his contract is bad right now but without lewis the magic have gotten worse. Lewis is a good 3 point shooter.

Not sure if he will fit in? If he does end up in Miami, we would have to let go a Anthony, miller, or who? I don't Miami will part ways with either of those players?

Ezio
09-29-2011, 10:47 PM
Kirk Hinrich is another will most likely get cut by this.

Bulls_fan90
09-29-2011, 10:58 PM
What stops a team doing this and then re-signing the guy for peanuts? It's a win for the player and the team.

LayZbone
09-29-2011, 11:06 PM
What stops a team doing this and then re-signing the guy for peanuts? It's a win for the player and the team.

A rule against it.

LayZbone
09-29-2011, 11:08 PM
One thing I want to know is if there's a limit to how many "amnestied" players a team can then go out and sign. Because if they're all getting paid from their previous employers anyway, what's to stop 2-3 of them from loading up on any contender that'll take them for the vet min (Miami, Chicago, LA, etc)? The best teams are only gonna get deeper. Unless a team with cap space is dumb enough to offer them a decent contract. But would you pay Rashard Lewis anything more than the vet min when the whole reason he's available is for being grossly overpaid in the 1st place?

theducksmuggler
09-29-2011, 11:10 PM
so do the sixers get rid of elton brand or iggy? they prolly will just keep them both on the books

LayZbone
09-29-2011, 11:16 PM
so do the sixers get rid of elton brand or iggy? they prolly will just keep them both on the books

Brand or Nocioni.

Pierzynski4Prez
09-29-2011, 11:16 PM
They should make a rule that with the amnesty clause, you don't get to go use your freed up cap space on making just another idiotic deal that put them in this situation in the 1st place.

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 11:20 PM
Brand or Nocioni.

sig is howls...fitting for the thread haha

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 11:21 PM
Calderon 10 mil a yr...bye bye Jose

DoMeFavors
09-29-2011, 11:23 PM
so do the sixers get rid of elton brand or iggy? they prolly will just keep them both on the books

Andres Nocioni

CeeDub15
09-29-2011, 11:25 PM
Man i didnt know Walton was that much...

llemon
09-29-2011, 11:27 PM
Kirk Hinrich is another will most likely get cut by this.

Kirk can play.

Hawks would be better off waiving Joe Jackson.

DoMeFavors
09-29-2011, 11:35 PM
Kirk can play.

Hawks would be better off waiving Joe Jackson.

Marvin Williams

spreadeagle
09-29-2011, 11:37 PM
Kirk can play.

Hawks would be better off waiving Joe Jackson.

ya hes not allstar level but he always works hard and does good no matter where he goes..prob a great backup not a starter on a contender

MTar786
09-29-2011, 11:43 PM
They should make a rule that with the amnesty clause, you don't get to go use your freed up cap space on making just another idiotic deal that put them in this situation in the 1st place.

this

beasted86
09-29-2011, 11:58 PM
Haywood would be a high value for the minimum on the Heat. Allows us to spend the MLE on a guy like Tayshaun Prince.

The haters blood would boil.

PG: Chalmers / Cole / house
SG: Wade / Miller
SF: James / Prince
PF: Bosh / Haslem
C:: Haywood / Anthony / Pittman / Z

LayZbone
09-30-2011, 12:02 AM
Haywood would be a high value for the minimum on the Heat. Allows us to spend the MLE on a guy like Tayshaun Prince.

The haters blood would boil.

PG: Chalmers / Cole / house
SG: Wade / Miller
SF: James / Prince
PF: Bosh / Haslem
C:: Haywood / Anthony / Pittman / Z

Add Baron Davis to the mix, while you're at it. See that's what I'm talking about. But you gotta take the luxury tax into effect, especially if it's gonna be much harsher as these owners are proposing. We may have to amnesty Miller or Joel, and fill their spot with an amnestied (cheaper) option.

Also, the Bulls could easily add a Rip Hamilton or Brandon Roy to fill that hole at the 2-guard spot. The contenders are only gonna get stronger w/ this.

Punk
09-30-2011, 12:04 AM
This rule is great for teams and players that are on bad terms and aren't really trade valued anymore like Rip Hamilton.

1. Roy
2. Lewis
3. Hamilton
4. Charlie V
5. Bargnani
6. Richard Jefferson
7. Jose Calderon
8. Travis Outlaw (although Avery has a main crush on him)
9. Baron Davis
10. A. Beidrins
11. Haywood
12. Jefferson


Haywood would be a high value for the minimum on the Heat. Allows us to spend the MLE on a guy like Tayshaun Prince.

The haters blood would boil.

PG: Chalmers / Cole / house
SG: Wade / Miller
SF: James / Prince
PF: Bosh / Haslem
C:: Haywood / Anthony / Pittman / Z
That's cool.

That leaves the Knicks with:

PG: Paul/ Douglas/ Stone
SG: Shumpert / Fields
SF: Melo /Shawne Williams
PF Amare/Keyon Martin
C: Chandler/Harelson/Turiaf

;) ....Now, back to reality...

llemon
09-30-2011, 12:09 AM
Haywood would be a high value for the minimum on the Heat. Allows us to spend the MLE on a guy like Tayshaun Prince.

The haters blood would boil.

PG: Chalmers / Cole / house
SG: Wade / Miller
SF: James / Prince
PF: Bosh / Haslem
C:: Haywood / Anthony / Pittman / Z

Why would Haywood sign for the Vets Min with the Heat when he can get more elsewhere?

beasted86
09-30-2011, 12:10 AM
Add Baron Davis to the mix, while you're at it. See that's what I'm talking about.

Then again the Bulls could easily add a Rip Hamilton or Brandon Roy to fill that hole at the 2-guard spot.

Call me crazy, but I don't think the Pistons will waive Hamilton, Charlie V seems most likely with the jam log of forwards the Pistons have, or from a money standpoint, Gordon is owed the most.

Sinestro
09-30-2011, 12:11 AM
So let me get this straight....the Hawks can use their amnesty clause and use it on someone like Joe Johnson, Joe will still get paid all his cash and can then get signed by someone like the Magic or the Bulls? Thats scary

beasted86
09-30-2011, 12:12 AM
Why would Haywood sign for the Vets Min with the Heat when he can get more elsewhere?

Because he's not going to go somewhere else and be the backup, contender or non-contender.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:14 AM
So let me get this straight....the Hawks can use their amnesty clause and use it on someone like Joe Johnson, Joe will still get paid all his cash and can then get signed by someone like the Magic or the Bulls? Thats scary

I dont think a team would pay a guy like joe johnson 100 mil or whatever to walk away no owner will pay that for a guy who can still put up 20 ppg a night...Im pretty sure this time around it will be called the Gilbert Arenas/Rashad Lewis rule

beasted86
09-30-2011, 12:15 AM
That leaves the Knicks with:

C: Chandler/Harelson/Turiaf

;) ....Now, back to reality...

Dream if you wish on the rest of the roster... but if the Mavericks amnesty Haywood, I'm 100% sure they will re-sign Chandler. They aren't going to waive Haywood, just to lose out on re-signing Chandler.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:15 AM
Because he's not going to go somewhere else and be the backup, contender or non-contender.

ya hes still a 6 7 mil a yr player on some bad teams who need a big C....depends if he wants a shot at a ring or more doe..i say doe

Sinestro
09-30-2011, 12:18 AM
I dont think a team would pay a guy like joe johnson 100 mil or whatever to walk away no owner will pay that for a guy who can still put up 20 ppg a night...Im pretty sure this time around it will be called the Gilbert Arenas/Rashad Lewis rule

Oh I thought the League paid it or something....brainfart...in that case it still allows for the contenders to get some pretty nice pieces and the teams that made some bad decisions or have bad luck (Blazers) to have a little bit of a better future

LayZbone
09-30-2011, 12:22 AM
ya hes still a 6 7 mil a yr player on some bad teams who need a big C....depends if he wants a shot at a ring or more doe..i say doe

See this is what I'm curious about. It just doesn't make any sense to me that a player (an overpaid player mind you....the whole freakin reason he's getting amnestied in the 1st place) gets offered another lucrative contract. What bargaining power do these guys have? Every team knows Haywood is still gonna be paid $45 million from the Mavericks. "Hey buddy, here's another $15 million over 3 yrs. You deserve it."

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:22 AM
Oh I thought the League paid it or something....brainfart...in that case it still allows for the contenders to get some pretty nice pieces and the teams that made some bad decisions or have bad luck (Blazers) to have a little bit of a better future

I guess its like a buyout without the negotiation..the player is just cut like the NFL except they get to keep there money

beasted86
09-30-2011, 12:25 AM
ya hes still a 6 7 mil a yr player on some bad teams who need a big C....depends if he wants a shot at a ring or more doe..i say doe

I'm positive no team with cap space will sign Haywood, so his choice is either the full mid-level ($5.8M or whatever the new number will be under the CBA) or the minimum.

But maybe you are right, he has a ring now, he may not care about being on a contender. But I still hold my ground that he's not going to take part of the mid-level to go play as a backup somewhere again. There are a handful of teams that need a starting Center: Heat, Knicks, Rockets, Bobcats, Pistons, Cavs, maybe Raptors... can't think of any more that he would be a starter on.

Out of that list of teams, I can't see even 1 of those offering Haywood the full mid-level. Maybe part of it, but surely not full.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:29 AM
See this is what I'm curious about. It just doesn't make any sense to me that a player (an overpaid player mind you....the whole freakin reason he's getting amnestied in the 1st place) gets offered another lucrative contract. What bargaining power do these guys have? Every team knows Haywood is still gonna be paid $45 million from the Mavericks. "Hey buddy, here's another $15 million over 3 yrs. You deserve it."

its cause a bigmen gets PAID all u gotta be is 7 feet tall,put in 12 and 10 and you get 5 yrs 60 million

LayZbone
09-30-2011, 12:30 AM
Call me crazy, but I don't think the Pistons will waive Hamilton, Charlie V seems most likely with the jam log of forwards the Pistons have, or from a money standpoint, Gordon is owed the most.

Yeah but there's bad blood there. Rip's been unhappy for a while. There's definitely a case for those other 2 tho. Damn, Detroit got problems.

LayZbone
09-30-2011, 12:32 AM
its cause a bigmen gets PAID all u gotta be is 7 feet tall,put in 12 and 10 and you get 5 yrs 60 million

lol so Haywood is gonna make out like a bandit with more money than 2 starters put together because the league has crap Centers.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:33 AM
I'm positive no team with cap space will sign Haywood, so his choice is either the full mid-level ($5.8M or whatever the new number will be under the CBA) or the minimum.

But maybe you are right, he has a ring now, he may not care about being on a contender. But I still hold my ground that he's not going to take part of the mid-level to go play as a backup somewhere again. There are a handful of teams that need a starting Center: Heat, Knicks, Rockets, Bobcats, Pistons, Cavs, maybe Raptors... can't think of any more that he would be a starter on.

Out of that list of teams, I can't see even 1 of those offering Haywood the full mid-level. Maybe part of it, but surely not full.

Raptors I bett would pay for him..they need a big bulky C bad to play alongside Bargnani Ed Davis n Amir Johnson...all thin dudes and they have to overpay talent since they havent been good in like a decade sighhh,, that's free agency you got to pay a guy 2 mil extra a yr to chose ur team even though everyone knows he aint worth it..the flip side of the coin is dont get a C and sit on the cash and lose

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:36 AM
lol so Haywood is gonna make out like a bandit with more money than 2 starters put together because the league has crap Centers.

yup , remember Hakeem,Ewing,Shaq,...now you you got Hibbert Bynum Haywood...beyond Dwight its pretty bare its become a SF PG driven league

GodsSon
09-30-2011, 12:41 AM
Calderon 10 mil a yr...bye bye Jose

I'd rather drop Kleiza. Calderon might suck defensively, but he's a fundamentally sound play-maker who makes very little mistakes and can his shots at a pretty good clip. He's the IDEAL back-up PG to a lot of teams in the league.

fadedmario
09-30-2011, 12:43 AM
Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Charlie Villanueva - pick one

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:44 AM
lol so Haywood is gonna make out like a bandit with more money than 2 starters put together because the league has crap Centers.

Also with Chandlers injury history I think they keep Haywood,that one two punch at C helped em get a ring,if it aint broke dont fix it

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 12:46 AM
I'd rather drop Kleiza. Calderon might suck defensively, but he's a fundamentally sound play-maker who makes very little mistakes and can his shots at a pretty good clip. He's the IDEAL back-up PG to a lot of teams in the league.

IDK man the Jonas/ Kleiza Lithuianian connection could help them both out

LayZbone
09-30-2011, 12:59 AM
Also with Chandlers injury history I think they keep Haywood,that one two punch at C helped em get a ring,if it aint broke dont fix it

no way. Haywood's gone. Remember they also have JJ Barea and Caron Butler to think about.

arkanian215
09-30-2011, 01:02 AM
Imagine if teams were allowed to trade before they had to use their amnesty cut. Teams with no horrendous contracts can acquire some nice pieces from financially struggling teams/teams who made terrible FO decisions.

Ex: Indiana trades for Rip Hamilton/Ben Gordon + a pick/stuckey

thenetslegend
09-30-2011, 01:04 AM
travis outlaw!

beasted86
09-30-2011, 01:08 AM
Also with Chandlers injury history I think they keep Haywood,that one two punch at C helped em get a ring,if it aint broke dont fix it

I know Mark Cuban is a rich man, but it's doubtful they keep Haywood with all the free agents they have. Chandler who is due double digits, Caron who will at the least get the full mid-level worth if he stays, and Barea who is looking for his first contract off his rookie deal.

The new luxury tax penalties ensure that Haywood is a goner.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 01:15 AM
If there ends up being a hard salary cap, contenders could even be forced to use their amnesties on well-known veterans like Ron Artest, Brandon Roy, Mike Miller and (gulp) Kevin Garnett. A good team by team analysis http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7026680/welcome-amnesty-20-nba love this website just found it recently really good stuff

Punk
09-30-2011, 01:15 AM
Dream if you wish on the rest of the roster... but if the Mavericks amnesty Haywood, I'm 100% sure they will re-sign Chandler. They aren't going to waive Haywood, just to lose out on re-signing Chandler.

Considering Chandler said they are far apart from what he wants. I think that means teams have a legit shot at him.

If Chandler doesn't re-sign, Haywood could get waived and the Mavs could either sign Gasol or wait for Howard.

beasted86
09-30-2011, 01:17 AM
Considering Chandler said they are far apart from what he wants. I think that means teams have a legit shot at him.

If Chandler doesn't re-sign, Haywood could get waived and the Mavs could either sign Gasol or wait for Howard.

What are you talking about? None of what you typed makes sense... so I'm just going to go to bed now.

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 01:20 AM
What are you talking about? None of what you typed makes sense... so I'm just going to go to bed now.

LoL kind of see what he means,unrealistic maybe but some sports ppl are not sold on giving Chandler a big deal due to his past injury history...last year may have been his peak "i dont think so" but thats what some are saying

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 01:28 AM
travis outlaw!

whos the chick in ur pic/avatar?

Antipod
09-30-2011, 01:31 AM
"One shot"? What does that mean? Once every year, once every 5 years or once in the entire next CBA agreement?
Confusing

setman2000
09-30-2011, 02:03 AM
I hope the Nuggets take this opportunity to dump Al Harrington and his 6 million/yr. - He's horrible.

ewmania
09-30-2011, 02:29 AM
question about the amnesty clause
does this happen once this season only or they will just get this once every season?

Antipod
09-30-2011, 03:07 AM
question about the amnesty clause
does this happen once this season only or they will just get this once every season?

This is what i`m also trying yo find out, too bad everybody is sleeping and can`t answer to our question x)

maddBat
09-30-2011, 03:20 AM
This is what i`m also trying yo find out, too bad everybody is sleeping and can`t answer to our question x)

i could b wrong. but i think only this 1 time.. until the cba expires (the 1 being discussed rite now)

Hellcrooner
09-30-2011, 07:20 AM
i guess like last time its once now and for the whole cba, what is new is this time they also remove the player from the cap ( last time salary still counted agaisnt it).

good news for lakers cut walton and sign for the mle one of the cut PG ( arenas, davis, calderon).

spreadeagle
09-30-2011, 07:58 AM
i guess like last time its once now and for the whole cba, what is new is this time they also remove the player from the cap ( last time salary still counted agaisnt it).

good news for lakers cut walton and sign for the mle one of the cut PG ( arenas, davis, calderon).

I always thought Calderon would be good on the lakers..with Kobe Artest Bynum n Gasol he could play crappy D and still be ok because of the help inside..and hed dish out like 15 ast per game playing with kobe n gasol..he has a very low turnover rate too which im sure kobe likes

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-30-2011, 08:07 AM
He was a decent player and BOOM one day he loses all of his skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEuw2mgLRuQ

thenetslegend
09-30-2011, 08:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEuw2mgLRuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HBdRCroks&feature=related

Foye
09-30-2011, 09:00 AM
I don't like that amnesty clause.

Sucks for teams that have been spending their money wisely and some players even get rewarded for not living up to their contract as they'll be free to sign a new contract elsewhere and make even more money then. :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 09:08 AM
I think the amnesty clause is b.s. It rewards front offices that made stupid financial decisions. Um, teams that have been conservative and have done things right financially get nothing from this.

And the statement that stands out most is something I have said for years. The owners need protection from themselves. Disgusting

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-30-2011, 09:20 AM
I think the amnesty clause is b.s. It rewards front offices that made stupid financial decisions. Um, teams that have been conservative and have done things right financially get nothing from this.

And the statement that stands out most is something I have said for years. The owners need protection from themselves. Disgusting

partially-guaranteed contracts?

NYman15
09-30-2011, 09:24 AM
The amnesty is a very interesting option, if it happens. A lot of good players could be cut do to their horrible contracts. For a team like the Knicks or the Heat, they'll be all over some of these guys who are good players, but have horrible contracts and try and give them the option to play with a few superstars.

pebloemer
09-30-2011, 09:34 AM
I don't like the clause at all.

I could see player/ownership drama around this. What is to stop an unhappy player from playing like ****, so he can get cut and sign with a contender. We've already seen players not give full effort on losing teams. I don't think players or ownership need any motivation to fail...

gotoHcarolina52
09-30-2011, 09:35 AM
As many have pointed out, the Amnesty Clause rewards both the elite teams that have met the cap limit and can sign only minimum contract players, and those teams that either through bad luck or bad decisions find themselves stuck with terrible contracts.

While the truly wise/cautious/frugal teams might be penalized as a result, you'd be hard pressed to find a team that isn't eager to make use of this Clause. Every team has made at least one mistake.

likemystylez
09-30-2011, 09:44 AM
As many have pointed out, the Amnesty Clause rewards both the elite teams that have met the cap limit and can sign only minimum contract players, and those teams that either through bad luck or bad decisions find themselves stuck with terrible contracts.

While the truly wise/cautious/frugal teams might be penalized as a result, you'd be hard pressed to find a team that isn't eager to make use of this Clause. Every team has made at least one mistake.

Yeah- the amnesty clause is a tool that can help teams be more competitive, but it clearly has a negetive impact on any team financially.

Players are not just cut and not paid. LOL the players who get cut are given their entire salary still by the team that cut them... AND that team is going to use that cap relief to sign additional players. So the Teams are paying double for the same cap space being used..... just making that cap space better spent in terms of talent on the floor.

Its kind of like a luxury tax on the check book though. basically teams who really want to win games will love it.... while teams that only want to make as much money as possible and dont care about wins so much.... they might not be crazy about it.

In effect- its

likemystylez
09-30-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't like the clause at all.

I could see player/ownership drama around this. What is to stop an unhappy player from playing like ****, so he can get cut and sign with a contender. We've already seen players not give full effort on losing teams. I don't think players or ownership need any motivation to fail...

IS there a time limit as to when they have to use the clause by? I would expect teams to use it asap... making it difficult for the players to start "not giving full effort"

pebloemer
09-30-2011, 09:50 AM
IS there a time limit as to when they have to use the clause by? I would expect teams to use it asap... making it difficult for the players to start "not giving full effort"

I may misinterpret what the "one time use" means. Reading through the thread, other people have asked that as well. If it is just a tool to help teams adapt to the new CBA in place, I take back my critique. But if this is a yearly thing - it really seems counterproductive to the owners wanting to protect themselves from overspending...

gwrighter
09-30-2011, 09:59 AM
I may misinterpret what the "one time use" means. Reading through the thread, other people have asked that as well. If it is just a tool to help teams adapt to the new CBA in place, I take back my critique. But if this is a yearly thing - it really seems counterproductive to the owners wanting to protect themselves from overspending...

nope its a one time shot. I expect there to be some sort of time limit for its exercise also. So a team can't wait until 3 seasons to cut someone. Teams will most likely use it right away to get under the cap. Or for other teams, free up cap room to sign other players.

daleja424
09-30-2011, 10:05 AM
Lewis most likely to Miami?? I don't know how I feel about that? :/

REALLY? Lewis is a good player man. People only hate on him b.c he was making like 20 million per and is just a good player... not a superstar. But at the vet min Lewis is a GEM for any team.

beasted86
09-30-2011, 10:36 AM
LoL kind of see what he means,unrealistic maybe but some sports ppl are not sold on giving Chandler a big deal due to his past injury history...last year may have been his peak "i dont think so" but thats what some are saying

No, there is nothing "realistic" about the Mavericks signing Marc Gasol (a restricted free agent) away from the Grizzlies with the mid-level. The same obviously goes for signing Dwight Howard with the mid-level.

Aside from both of those things, the Knicks are competing with the mid-level to sign Tyson Chandler since they don't have cap space. So who do you think has a more likely chance to sign him, the Knicks with $5.8M or less (whatever the mid-level drops to)... or the Mavs who even if they don't want to give him double digits, can still sign him for $7M in a place with no state taxes vs. the Knicks with the 2nd highest state taxes in the US?

But who knows... maybe I'm way off here. Maybe he was talking about Wilson Chandler playing Center in NY when he comes back from China. He did play PF there afterall, so Center may not be a stretch. Also, there may be a 3rd guy with the "Gasol" last name that he was talking about the Mavericks signing, and maybe when he said wait on Howard, he was talking about the Mavs giving Josh "Howard" another shot and bringing him back.

Now that I've had my coffee, his post sounds even more unrealistic. :crazy:

iliketurtles24
09-30-2011, 10:39 AM
so team that dont waste money, like most small market teams, just have one more challenge now that "big boys" can just cut their mistakes. it creates less parity. i would rather just have basketball this year, i want to see improvement from my team, maybe win up to 30 games. we can all agree that they need to get a deal done, unless your a vet teams fan, then u would love to see the season shortened, but for rebuilding teams, a shortened season and no preseason sets the team back half a year to a year

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 10:39 AM
partially-guaranteed contracts?

that would be for the players to agree upon. I am simply against the amnesty clause, because it rewards outlandish spending and a poor decision, while punishing those teams that were fiscally intelligent and didn't give out some ridiculous deal to a player that didn't merit it.

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 10:42 AM
trust me, if it happens, I would be ELATED to see the Wolves use it on Darko. But I would also be pissed seeing Washington get out from under Lewis's deal, or Orlando get out from under Arenas's deal, etc. Those teams made horrendous contractual offers and would be given a huge do-over compared to the teams that have non franchise hampering contracts, or for teams way over the cap it helps way more than it does teams that have stayed under the cap and have flexibility.

I just think it rewards teams that have been financially incompetent.

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 10:44 AM
The only positive I can think of is, say Rashard Lewis becomes available. Well, a team like the Rockets or Wolves can now offer him more money than the Lakers or Heat for example, so the financially responsible teams do indeed come out with the advantage of signing anyone who was waived under amnesty much easier than a team that makes a cut, yet is still over (Dallas, LAL for example).

Missing56&33
09-30-2011, 10:46 AM
Andris Biedrins. We Warriors fans wonder what happened to that dude. he used to average 10 points 10 rebounds... with a great FG percentage...

your sig is hilarious......Is it too late to use it on Eddy Curry?

da ThRONe
09-30-2011, 10:47 AM
As a Hornets fan ,even as much as I hate Okafor's contract, I wouldn't cut anybody. All our players have some trade value.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 10:55 AM
As a Hornets fan ,even as much as I hate Okafor's contract, I wouldn't cut anybody. All our players have some trade value.

With Okafor and Ariza's contract along with West leaving and the possibility of CP3 leaving, I very much doubt that.

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 11:00 AM
As a Hornets fan ,even as much as I hate Okafor's contract, I wouldn't cut anybody. All our players have some trade value.

EVERY team would use it dude. There isn't a team out there with one deal they wouldn't get rid of. The only difference is the Wolves would use it on the 3 years, $15 million they still owe Darko, while the Magic would use it on Arenas and the 3 years, $61 million they still owe him. Which is why this whole thing is a bit unfair.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 11:00 AM
The only positive I can think of is, say Rashard Lewis becomes available. Well, a team like the Rockets or Wolves can now offer him more money than the Lakers or Heat for example, so the financially responsible teams do indeed come out with the advantage of signing anyone who was waived under amnesty much easier than a team that makes a cut, yet is still over (Dallas, LAL for example).

That's true yet why would teams like the Wolves or Rockets even consider a player like Lewis? Especially for more then a vet min or barley a MLE? More importantly, why would Lewis even think of going to teams like that when he already got paid the big bucks?

beasted86
09-30-2011, 11:00 AM
trust me, if it happens, I would be ELATED to see the Wolves use it on Darko. But I would also be pissed seeing Washington get out from under Lewis's deal, or Orlando get out from under Arenas's deal, etc. Those teams made horrendous contractual offers and would be given a huge do-over compared to the teams that have non franchise hampering contracts, or for teams way over the cap it helps way more than it does teams that have stayed under the cap and have flexibility.

I just think it rewards teams that have been financially incompetent.

The only thing is, most of those teams over the cap that need to shed these bad contracts, will still be over the cap.... or won't be under the cap far enough to make a difference.

Even if the Magic can amnesty Arenas they will still have $57M in guaranteed contracts before signing their rookie, or re-signing Jason Richardson or anything else. Also, just because the contract no longer counts against their salary total doesn't mean they aren't still paying it. They might be disguised as a $57M team now with the flexibility to re-sign J-Rich to... I don't know... $7M without hitting the luxury. So they'd be a $64M team as far as salary cap goes, but in reality, they are still an $84M team. The owner still has to pay $84M in salaries that if he was losing money doing it before, even under a new CBA BRI % split he may be losing money again paying out that much.

Hopefully some owners don't use the amnesty to put themselves further in debt by an artificially lower payroll.

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 11:02 AM
That's true yet why would teams like the Wolves or Rockets even consider a player like Lewis? Especially for more then a vet min or barley a MLE? More importantly, why would Lewis even think of going to teams like that when he already got paid the big bucks?

you would be surprised how many players will take money over winning.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 11:03 AM
And if Brandon Roy hypethically actually get's amnesty claused, who wants to bet that he's still going to get a huge contract on any other team? (For example I can still see teams offering him almost a max type of contract).

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 11:04 AM
The only thing is, most of those teams over the cap that need to shed these bad contracts, will still be over the cap.... or won't be under the cap far enough to make a difference.

Even if the Magic can amnesty Arenas they will still have $57M in guaranteed contracts before signing their rookie, or re-signing Jason Richardson or anything else. Also, just because the contract no longer counts against their salary total doesn't mean they aren't still paying it. They might be disguised as a $57M team now with the flexibility to re-sign J-Rich to... I don't know... $7M without hitting the luxury. So they'd be a $64M team as far as salary cap goes, but in reality, they are still an $84M team. The owner still has to pay $84M in salaries that if he was losing money doing it before, even under a new CBA BRI % split he may be losing money again paying out that much.

Hopefully some owners don't use the amnesty to put themselves further in debt by an artificially lower payroll.

Oh I know. Basically, my opinion stems from my team being financially conservative and playing within the cap, while some teams have not. If I were a fan of a team with one of franchise crippling deals, my opinion would be completely different.

I addressed some of your post here in a following post I made, and as for the financials, I think they will give a tapered timeline to start getting under those huge tax thresholds.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 11:05 AM
you would be surprised how many players will take money over winning.

Trust me, I found that out the second Carl Crawford signed with the Red Sox :laugh: .

But again, besides brandon roy (and maybe Joe Johnson if the hawks are smart enough), why would teams even consider paying more then a vet min for guys like Haywood, Lewis, etc.

jkiddvc20
09-30-2011, 11:06 AM
Good riddance Travis Outlaw!!

beasted86
09-30-2011, 11:08 AM
And if Brandon Roy hypethically actually get's amnesty claused, who wants to bet that he's still going to get a huge contract on any other team? (For example I can still see teams offering him almost a max type of contract).

Owners have been very stupid in the past, but I still don't see anyone giving him anywhere near the max. $7-8M maybe.

likemystylez
09-30-2011, 11:09 AM
And if Brandon Roy hypethically actually get's amnesty claused, who wants to bet that he's still going to get a huge contract on any other team? (For example I can still see teams offering him almost a max type of contract).

LMAO- You do realize that the reason Brandon Roy is being considered for this Amnesty exception has nothing to do with his talent level right?

ROY is a great player, he has max level talent. The problem is his knees. Roy has 2 seasons at MAX (probably closer to 6 months to a year) playing in the NBA as an above average player. His carreer is basically over.

Another team signing him.....to anything more than a 2 yr deal would be insane... and find themselves in a horrible situation in the very near future. There is a very good chance that roy will be out of the league by 2013. It's really sad... because he had a chance to be one of portlands all time greats if given a full carreer.

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 11:10 AM
Trust me, I found that out the second Carl Crawford signed with the Red Sox :laugh: .

But again, besides brandon roy (and maybe Joe Johnson if the hawks are smart enough), why would teams even consider paying more then a vet min for guys like Haywood, Lewis, etc.

Obviously many of the players waived would be vets who earned their deals in their primes, and are now on the backslide of their careers, and still have 2-3 years left. Those players would not fetch much past vet minimum, but there will be a handful of players who are still legit starters on good teams that hit the market.

beasted86
09-30-2011, 11:11 AM
This should go without saying...... but I hope they make this amnesty clause with the agreement their former team cannot re-sign the player.

Because it goes without saying nobody wants to see the Knicks amnesty Stoudemire then re-sign him for $2M a year over 5 years. Hello $20M cap space immediately :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
09-30-2011, 11:12 AM
This should go without saying...... but I hope they make this amnesty clause with the agreement their former team cannot re-sign the player.

Because it goes without saying nobody wants to see the Knicks amnesty Stoudemire then re-sign him for $2M a year over 5 years. Hello $20M cap space immediately :facepalm:

That would have to be a rule haha.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 11:17 AM
This should go without saying...... but I hope they make this amnesty clause with the agreement their former team cannot re-sign the player.

Because it goes without saying nobody wants to see the Knicks amnesty Stoudemire then re-sign him for $2M a year over 5 years. Hello $20M cap space immediately :facepalm:

Dude...you just thought of the most awesome idea ever!!!

"Lakers shockingly Amnesty Kobe Bryant!!!....But then resign him for $2 million a year for the next 5 years".

YOUR A GENIUS! :clap:

mjm07
09-30-2011, 11:17 AM
Then that would mean the Heat would be able to do the same.

In this highly unlikely scenario( in other words, it will never happen), Wade would be the most likely candidate and the most willing. Extra cap space to Sign Nene and use the MLE on Battier or Prince.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-30-2011, 11:26 AM
And if Brandon Roy hypethically actually get's amnesty claused, who wants to bet that he's still going to get a huge contract on any other team? (For example I can still see teams offering him almost a max type of contract).

no

king4day
09-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Haywood can be dealt. His deal isn't that bad. It's too long and too big a contract to just give him up.
I could see Miami dumping Mike Miller. They are in win-now mode and he isn't helping their case.
The Heat are going to seriously rack up on ousted players.

king4day
09-30-2011, 12:16 PM
Then that would mean the Heat would be able to do the same.

In this highly unlikely scenario( in other words, it will never happen), Wade would be the most likely candidate and the most willing. Extra cap space to Sign Nene and use the MLE on Battier or Prince.

They could trade Wade and get a better return than they would in the event they cut him.

llemon
09-30-2011, 12:43 PM
The only thing is, most of those teams over the cap that need to shed these bad contracts, will still be over the cap.... or won't be under the cap far enough to make a difference.

Even if the Magic can amnesty Arenas they will still have $57M in guaranteed contracts before signing their rookie, or re-signing Jason Richardson or anything else. Also, just because the contract no longer counts against their salary total doesn't mean they aren't still paying it. They might be disguised as a $57M team now with the flexibility to re-sign J-Rich to... I don't know... $7M without hitting the luxury. So they'd be a $64M team as far as salary cap goes, but in reality, they are still an $84M team. The owner still has to pay $84M in salaries that if he was losing money doing it before, even under a new CBA BRI % split he may be losing money again paying out that much.

Hopefully some owners don't use the amnesty to put themselves further in debt by an artificially lower payroll.

But without the amnesty clause, Magic would pay luxury tax on Arenas and whoever else they sign. That is quite a few million dollars.

Muttman73
09-30-2011, 12:47 PM
The NBA is a broken league (financially) although this does reward the lazy it's probably a good idea. Honestly, I just want the game back so whatever...

llemon
09-30-2011, 12:57 PM
Because he's not going to go somewhere else and be the backup, contender or non-contender.

After Warrior waive Biedrins, I believe Haywood would start for Warriors, and for more than the Vets Min.

Maybe Heat can sign Biedrins.

ewmania
09-30-2011, 01:01 PM
i hope dallas waives haywood and comes to NY for a vet min, i see him going to a big market like boston, ny or miami where he can be a starting center before he plays the background again. he has alot to prove since he let chandler over shine him

smith&wesson
09-30-2011, 01:04 PM
reshard lewis and gilbert arenas to the heat. book it.

DoMeFavors
09-30-2011, 01:09 PM
i hope dallas waives haywood and comes to NY for a vet min, i see him going to a big market like boston, ny or miami where he can be a starting center before he plays the background again. he has alot to prove since he let chandler over shine him

Why do you think every player wants to go to teams for vet min?

ewmania
09-30-2011, 01:21 PM
Why do you think every player wants to go to teams for vet min?

because its a win win... if a guy like rashard lewis gets cut by the amnesty clause. not only will he get to keep that huge contract, but he would also be able to sign to a contending team for a vet min... wouldn't you go to a contending team if you can still keep your huge salary plus also sign to a ring winning team for some other price

LakeShowRaider
09-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Will gladly welcome Leiws and Arenas to the Lakers.

Southsideheat
09-30-2011, 01:54 PM
Between the Amnesty clause and free agency, things could get a little weird with a shortened offseason.

JNA17
09-30-2011, 02:36 PM
Will gladly welcome Leiws and Arenas to the Lakers.

...you know now that I think about it, they would fit in perfectly. Lewis outside shooter at SF, and Arenas also another outside shooter that is a total upgrade over blake and fisher...

LET'S MAKE THIS HAPPEN! :D

COOLbeans
09-30-2011, 06:46 PM
Calderon 10 mil a yr...bye bye Jose

i cant believe the canadian raptors are paying Calderon 10 million.:facepalm: besides biedrins imo, that's the worst deal noted in this thread.

nycericanguy
09-30-2011, 07:14 PM
Haywood can be dealt. His deal isn't that bad. It's too long and too big a contract to just give him up.
I could see Miami dumping Mike Miller. They are in win-now mode and he isn't helping their case.
The Heat are going to seriously rack up on ousted players.

Its pretty bad, 6 years 55m for a soon to be 32 year old backup center that puts up 4 & 5. I don't think that contract is tradeable unless they take back another horrible deal.

If they want to resign Chandler I think they'd want to let Haywood go. You think DAL would pass up a one time chance to rid themselves of that deal? He will be 38 at the end of that deal, probably only has a couple of decent backup years left.

shep33
09-30-2011, 07:42 PM
Haywood cannot be dealt, his deal is atrocious, and Dallas just won a 'ship so nobody is wanting to make them better.

COOLbeans
09-30-2011, 08:14 PM
I propose a Biedrins for Haywood swap considering the salaries can fairly matched accordingly. Change of scnerey etc. etc.

NYman15
09-30-2011, 08:26 PM
If they do have an amnesty clause and players are cut, this could be a very interesting, shortened free agency period.