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limeytech
09-29-2011, 03:01 PM
Hornets swingman Trevor Ariza has used the time off this summer to take some classes at UCLA, which he left for the NBA after his freshman year. He talked with HoopsHype about that, his season playing with Chris Paul in New Orleans and the bitter ending to his tenure with the Lakers.

What made you want to go back to college this summer?

Trevor Ariza: First of all, I had a lot of time. You know with the lockout, that obviously freed up a little bit of time for me. So I thought I might as well go to school and try to finish up some of these credits so I can move closer to a degree.

What classes did you take?

TA: I took a History class this summer.

How seriously did you take your education before going to the NBA?

TA: When youíre young, you donít understand the value of education as well as you do when youíre a little bit older. I wasnít too much concerned with the educational part, but looking back on it now I think that the education is just as important as the sport.

Do you plan on doing this again in upcoming summers?

TA: I definitely plan on doing it every summer and Iím actually thinking about going to class during the fall.

I donít know if you saw this list they are making at ESPN.comÖ They are ranking all NBA players. You are at No. 113. What do you have to say about that?

TA: Thatís just some personís opinion. I know what I do. I know every team Iíve played on has gotten better. My whole life, nothing has ever been given to me. Thatís another reason to go out and work even harder. Itís cool or whatever to be ranked, but I donít look too deeply into that kind of stuff.

You have been traded several times during your career. Which of those trades disappointed you the most?

TA: The most disappointing trade that I had is when I got traded from Houston to New Orleans. But as far as throughout my whole career, when the Lakers did not re-sign me that was kind of disappointing as well.

Why?

TA: I was disappointed because I felt likeÖ This is my hometown, Los Angeles, we had just won a championship. Me helping win that championshipÖ They overlooked that. I didnít hang my head or cry about it. I just went to the gym and try to do the best for the team that I would play for the following season.

Would you want to return to the Lakers one day or after that experience you donít want that?

TA: I just want to play basketball. It would be nice to play in front of my family, but if that doesnít ever happen again it doesnít matter as long as Iím playing basketball. I love playing basketball.

You have been with five teams in your seven years in the NBA. Does it make you a little cynical about how the NBA works?

TA: Well, as a player you canít control where you play. As a player, all you can really do is play your best. If that is not good enough for one team, Iím sure another team will appreciate your game.

You talked about becoming an All-Star when you got traded to New Orleans. Is that still a goal of yours?

TA: Of course, thatís always been a goal of mine Ė to be the best player that I can be. Everything that my team has ever asked me to do, I tried my best to do. Maybe I fall short on my personal goals, but Iíve always been a player who tried to do whatís best for the team instead of whatís better for myself. And thatís what helps a lot of teams win, when you have a player thatís not selfish and doesnít care about his own personal stats as much instead of what is happening with the team.

You donít think that might hurt you in terms of getting All-Star consideration?

TA: Of course, that definitely hurts you. Stats is what makes All-Star players. But if I never reach that goal, Iím fine with that as long as our team always does well and always wins and always gets to the playoffs. Iím perfectly fine with that.

You went from playing with Aaron Brooks at the point guard position in Houston to Chris Paul in New Orleans. How was that change for you?

TA: Aaron Brooks is an unbelievable scorer and Chris Paul is more of a true point guard. Heís looking forward to making plays instead of scoring the ball the majority of the times. They are both great point guards, but I just think Chris is an unbelievable passer and he puts the ball where it needs to be.

Do you think Chris Paul is going to stay in New Orleans after this season?

TA: Thatís not something I can even comment on because heís his own individual. Heís been in New Orleans his whole career, but thatís a decision thatís up to him and his family and what he feels is best for him.

How was the chemistry on the team last year compared to other teams where you have played?

TA: We had a really good chemistry. We had eight new players on our team, a first-year coach who did an unbelievable jobÖ I think we did well.

You have played for the Lakers, who are the biggest team in town, and then the Rockets and Hornets, who are not. Do you miss the attention you got as a player in L.A. as a Laker?

TA: Iíve never been one of those players who really cared too much about attention. Yeah, everybody wants to play on TV, you want to play on TV since you are young. Playing on TV, yeah, I miss that, but as far as attentionÖ I never was one to seek out attention or anything like that. So no, not really.

Was losing in the first round of the playoffs tougher for you because it was against the Lakers?

TA: Losing is tough. I hate losing. I wouldíve been mad if we had lost to Dallas or anybody else. I donít think losing to the Lakers made it any tougher than losing to anybody else.

Your shooting percentages have not been very good the last couple of years. Whatís happening there?

TA: Well, more attempts now. My shooting percentages were always up because I took less shots. I didnít really have to worry about shooting the ball as much. But during the offseason, Iím working to make myself better. Iím trying to bring my shooting percentages up. I also know that when I am on the court my team gets better, our efficiency ratings go up as well. My percentages go down, but my teams do well.

Youíre the father of two little kids. Fatherhood changes you as a person, but does it change you as a player too?

TA: Iím definitely more mature. I look at things differently. I think I have more patience now as a player.

Have you given consideration to the possibility of playing overseas?

TA: You always have to keep your options open. When you do that, you can do what is best for you and your family. Thatís what Iím doing. I would never say no to any opportunity. Iíd weigh my options and do what is best for myself and my family.

Any preference? China? Europe?

TA: To be honest with you, I would like to play in a big European city. I would like to see what that experience is like. But like I said, I keep my opportunities open. I would listen to any team and what they have to say. Right now, Iím just working out, staying in shape and spending a lot of time with my family.

The Dominican Republic is going to play at the Olympic qualifying tournament next year. There are several NBA players on that team and you have Dominican roots. Is there any chance that you could join the team?

TA: If they would want me to play, Iíd definitely listen and I would definitely be open to playing.

They have not approached you about this so far?

TA: A little bit, nothing too serious. But since itís pretty close and they will try to qualify, I believe they will be more serious now.



Read more: http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra/2011/09/28/trevor-ariza-the-lakers-overlooked-how-i-helped-them-win-the-title/#ixzz1ZMyqdH3X

J4KOP99
09-29-2011, 03:11 PM
I'm not gonna read a long-*** Trevor Ariza interview but how come the Lakers won another title after Ariza left?

And Ariza is just as much to blame for not coming back to LA

Avenged
09-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Ariza had a home here and was a fan favorite. Shame the Lakers didn't resign him. Now that Artest isn't what he once was, we're definitely missing an athletic wing.

Bruno
09-29-2011, 05:18 PM
Letting go of Ariza was a huge mistake. The Laker front-office allowed their detest of a given agent to make a fundamentally unsound decision.

The team front-office paid for their arrogance in the 2011 post-season. Ariza is the exact player who could have chased Terry or Peja around the perimeter, he could have stayed in-front of Bera, and could have checked Marion. Obviously Dirk was great but Dallas doesn't get past LA without those other four guys having huge series, which they did. Arizas perimeter defense and athleticism could have gotten us past Dallas. They hit us where we were most weak; wouldn't have been able to do it as easily with Ariza in the purple and gold. Artest looked exactly like what he is; a bulky player on the wrong side of 30 who's carried 260-270 pounds on his knees for over half a decade.

Funny thing is that we got Artest to body the larger Pierce Melo, or James; in the end this team needed a light-weight, lanky, long, athletic wing to chase the little guys and three point shooters as our core aged. Not saying LA would have won the title if they still had Ariza, but if you don't think he would have been a huge difference maker you're ignoring what he brings to the table. Artest came through in 2010, but there's no reason to believe that Ariza couldn't have done the same.

Findor
09-29-2011, 05:36 PM
Lakers did what they needed to do, ignore threats. Any player waiving the "raise me or I go" card has to be Ignored...

On the sports level, it was a mistake beause Ariza has a lot more future and is better tha Artest at long term, but I think the FO made the right choice in letting him go to cut future similar situations.

IDB Josh M
09-29-2011, 05:38 PM
I'm inclined to agree with him and with Bruno and avenged .... if Lakers didn't win the year after, and against the Celtics.

Blah blah blah Ariza helped the Lakers, but he got a big head from his agent. He could have been big in LA. He went to NOH and he took the same price that we offered him in LA. Does he expect to be paid the same as Kobe? As Pau? As Bynum? Even Lamar took less for the sake of winning the title, and he ain't even from here.

Anyways, we didn't three peat because of Pau, not because we didn't have Ariza.

lakers4sho
09-29-2011, 07:06 PM
The one thing the Lakers didn't overlook is that his agent was asking for too much.

Iron24th
09-29-2011, 07:38 PM
I'm inclined to agree with him and with Bruno and avenged .... if Lakers didn't win the year after, and against the Celtics.

Blah blah blah Ariza helped the Lakers, but he got a big head from his agent. He could have been big in LA. He went to NOH and he took the same price that we offered him in LA. Does he expect to be paid the same as Kobe? As Pau? As Bynum? Even Lamar took less for the sake of winning the title, and he ain't even from here.

Anyways, we didn't three peat because of Pau, not because we didn't have Ariza.

Agree,except for the NOH left,he left us for houston and then got traded to NOH.

Avenged
09-29-2011, 07:43 PM
I'm inclined to agree with him and with Bruno and avenged .... if Lakers didn't win the year after, and against the Celtics.

Blah blah blah Ariza helped the Lakers, but he got a big head from his agent. He could have been big in LA. He went to NOH and he took the same price that we offered him in LA. Does he expect to be paid the same as Kobe? As Pau? As Bynum? Even Lamar took less for the sake of winning the title, and he ain't even from here.

Anyways, we didn't three peat because of Pau, not because we didn't have Ariza.

We would have arguably still have repeated w/ Ariza, and it would have us covered at the 3 for a few more seasons. With Artest, we won, but now he's 31-32 years old.

Obviously his agent was asking for too much which is why he didn't get signed again, but that doesn't mean the Lakers don't need him now.

The goods
09-29-2011, 09:29 PM
Lakers did what they needed to do, ignore threats. Any player waiving the "raise me or I go" card has to be Ignored...

On the sports level, it was a mistake beause Ariza has a lot more future and is better tha Artest at long term, but I think the FO made the right choice in letting him go to cut future similar situations.

Agreed when its all said and done were the lakers no agent is gonna come in making threats to us players become free agents and take pay cuts just to play for us
And don't give me that "ooooo they over looked what I did for them" b.s. look at what we did for you,we're the reason people know your name in the first place. It was a very smart business decison now at this point and time I wish we had ariza also but next time come humbled buddy...........you ain't kobe lol

ldawg
09-29-2011, 11:41 PM
i will admit i did like Artest over Ariza but that was a mistake. We miss Ariza alot. Artest is just to heavy and slow. He is still a good player but him Fisher and Bryant right now is a bad back court. Fisher, kobe, Artest, Pau, Bynum makes the nba biggest slowest starting 5. It would be nice if Kobe was no longer the fastest guy on this team.

IDB Josh M
09-30-2011, 12:01 AM
We would have arguably still have repeated w/ Ariza, and it would have us covered at the 3 for a few more seasons. With Artest, we won, but now he's 31-32 years old.

Obviously his agent was asking for too much which is why he didn't get signed again, but that doesn't mean the Lakers don't need him now.

I'm not saying that Ariza wouldnt have helped against the celtics, I'm saying its a wash. No offense, but you're just feeding into Ariza's ego, and vicariously also his agent. Ariza is good, but not great. He was worth the MLE equivelant, and if he thinks he deserves more, the lakers would have been the team to show off his talents because we had a system where talents would definitely flourish.

In the last 2 years, he has yet to prove the Lakers wrong. None of his teams eliminated the Lakers.

MTar786
09-30-2011, 12:25 AM
fish artest and kobe is too slow of a backcourt/wing to win a championship again.

if we see fish,kobe and artest we will not win in 2012.. i can guarantee that. we need to switch artest or fish with someone faster and more athletic.. seriously.. a ron for ariza trade is the perfect thing.. and then start blake. problem solved and we will win it all in 2012.

Storch
09-30-2011, 10:40 AM
Like i've said over and over in the past, we could have had Ariza AND Artest on this team. And that would have been beast.

ldawg
09-30-2011, 07:25 PM
Like i've said over and over in the past, we could have had Ariza AND Artest on this team. And that would have been beast.Well Lakers refuse to wave walton and they gave Sasha a silly contract. Players we should have kept were Ariza and Farmar and let fisher walk if he did not agree to be a bench player.

midwestlaker75
09-30-2011, 09:09 PM
Should we have tried a little harder to keep him, probably. However, Ariza basically was offered the same contract as Artest. However, This is what happens when you allow an agent to make your decision instead you. If Ariza really wanted to stay in L.A. ,he could have. But he allowed his agent gas his head up and overestimate his worth...Lakers didn't budge and the rest is history. He should have had Luke Walton's agent......I want that guy the next time I need to negotiate a contract. That guy is a miracle worker!

shep33
09-30-2011, 09:09 PM
I don't know if we win in 2010 with Ariza over Artest... Ron shut down KD and Pierce. Not sure Ariza could do that. But long term, Ariza over Ron is the easy answer

SteBO
09-30-2011, 09:12 PM
Wasn't Ariza irked at the fact that the Lakers were looking at Artest as an option in '09 so he got pissed and started exploring other options, which led to his eventual Houston signing? I think that's what I read then.

kblo247
10-01-2011, 03:13 AM
Letting go of Ariza was a huge mistake. The Laker front-office allowed their detest of a given agent to make a fundamentally unsound decision.

The team front-office paid for their arrogance in the 2011 post-season. Ariza is the exact player who could have chased Terry or Peja around the perimeter, he could have stayed in-front of Bera, and could have checked Marion. Obviously Dirk was great but Dallas doesn't get past LA without those other four guys having huge series, which they did. Arizas perimeter defense and athleticism could have gotten us past Dallas. They hit us where we were most weak; wouldn't have been able to do it as easily with Ariza in the purple and gold. Artest looked exactly like what he is; a bulky player on the wrong side of 30 who's carried 260-270 pounds on his knees for over half a decade.

Funny thing is that we got Artest to body the larger Pierce Melo, or James; in the end this team needed a light-weight, lanky, long, athletic wing to chase the little guys and three point shooters as our core aged. Not saying LA would have won the title if they still had Ariza, but if you don't think he would have been a huge difference maker you're ignoring what he brings to the table. Artest came through in 2010, but there's no reason to believe that Ariza couldn't have done the same.

That last line I have a problem with, multiple actually.

First off Ariza has never regained that shooting prowess from the 3 or the field even in Adlemans system or with Chris Paul feeding him. He got hot at the right time, but let's not sugar coat the fact that he didn't shoot that way that whole year like Sasha the season before or provide a consistent spark off the bench once Odom had to become a starter again which is why Luke gave up his spot despite our record with him starting being fairly good. He got a good contract off a hot streak but as a whole, he wasn't better than Sasha in 08 or even close to Luke's play, consistency, and impact (we were over 500 with and below without him) in his two years as the starter in the Kwame/Smush group

Secondly the fact is Ariza isn't a very good man defender, great help guy, but Kobe and Luke out did him in that run the year before versus big time SFs. He is good but he isn't stopping anyone or slowing them down. In fact we are done in the first round when you see how Durant lit him up that very season. The fact that he also couldn't defend Pierce the very year before and Luke wasn't healthy enough to do it after the back procedures makes Ron a must unless if you want Ariza on Rondo and to wear Kobe out versus Pierce full time.

The last issue I have is that Trevor took the same cash LA offered. He just wanted more because of bird rights. The fact his agent had strung out the Bynum negotiations, and Bynum had to make the deal happen didn't help matters. Trevor didn't put a muzzle on his agent nor was he even close to being the most important free agent on the team. Odom was a free agent and he had by far earned the right to a larger sum of cash for his level of play and the fact he didn't have a 1 year career outlier. You pay Trevor more and risk on his play showing that it was just a hot streak, which the past two seasons and his career before that run clearly shows it was. You also risk losing Lamar which hurts far more as Pau and Andrew aren't iron man by any means. And most improtantly if you wait for him to string you along you risk losing out on any shot at Artest and Marion who logic would say were options B and C, which in turn kills us because our only sf in Luke would be needing back and hip surgery and Kobe historically wears down the more he logs time at SF.

kblo247
10-01-2011, 03:17 AM
I don't know if we win in 2010 with Ariza over Artest... Ron shut down KD and Pierce. Not sure Ariza could do that. But long term, Ariza over Ron is the easy answer

I do believe that Marion was the best choice of the 3 if he could be had at the same price. He is world better on defense and on the glass than Trevor. He also is worlds better athletically and off the ball than Ron.

Ariza got a hot streak at the right time and we got a ring out of it. Ron in his own words hoodalized at the right key moments and we got a ring out of it. The thing is neither guy was consistent with what they brought, we just remember Ariza having prettier and flashier moments over being lit up which he routinely was by Wade, Melo, LeBron, Manu, and Pierce whenever he was asked to guard them straight up.

It is basically the George vs Rice debate. Ron is like Rice in that his best years are gone and Ariza is like George in that he was without a doubt the best athlete, had flashes of begin special, and got hot enough in a title run to get paid. With all respect to them I'd still take Fox to win me a game every day of the week and right now I honestly think Barnes when healthy has a better chance to contribute regularly in that role.

ldawg
10-02-2011, 07:54 AM
Artest was a one year rental. He now makes a bad wing player i think him and Fisher both need to see the bench if not traded.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 01:15 PM
If only we signed Artest for 3 years or so.

I would love that deal over Ariza. Next season would be Artest last contract year, and we would have his contract off the books.

Bruno
10-02-2011, 04:08 PM
That last line I have a problem with, multiple actually.

First off Ariza has never regained that shooting prowess from the 3 or the field even in Adlemans system or with Chris Paul feeding him. He got hot at the right time, but let's not sugar coat the fact that he didn't shoot that way that whole year like Sasha the season before or provide a consistent spark off the bench once Odom had to become a starter again which is why Luke gave up his spot despite our record with him starting being fairly good. He got a good contract off a hot streak but as a whole, he wasn't better than Sasha in 08 or even close to Luke's play, consistency, and impact (we were over 500 with and below without him) in his two years as the starter in the Kwame/Smush group

Secondly the fact is Ariza isn't a very good man defender, great help guy, but Kobe and Luke out did him in that run the year before versus big time SFs. He is good but he isn't stopping anyone or slowing them down. In fact we are done in the first round when you see how Durant lit him up that very season. The fact that he also couldn't defend Pierce the very year before and Luke wasn't healthy enough to do it after the back procedures makes Ron a must unless if you want Ariza on Rondo and to wear Kobe out versus Pierce full time.

The last issue I have is that Trevor took the same cash LA offered. He just wanted more because of bird rights. The fact his agent had strung out the Bynum negotiations, and Bynum had to make the deal happen didn't help matters. Trevor didn't put a muzzle on his agent nor was he even close to being the most important free agent on the team. Odom was a free agent and he had by far earned the right to a larger sum of cash for his level of play and the fact he didn't have a 1 year career outlier. You pay Trevor more and risk on his play showing that it was just a hot streak, which the past two seasons and his career before that run clearly shows it was. You also risk losing Lamar which hurts far more as Pau and Andrew aren't iron man by any means. And most improtantly if you wait for him to string you along you risk losing out on any shot at Artest and Marion who logic would say were options B and C, which in turn kills us because our only sf in Luke would be needing back and hip surgery and Kobe historically wears down the more he logs time at SF.

haha, I was waiting for ya KBLO. Our old debate resurfaces yet again. I'll get back at ya when I got a minute. :cheers:

Lake_Show2416
10-03-2011, 01:00 PM
screw Ariza, we offered him the mid level, he didn't take it & took the same money wit the Rockets, we replaced him wit an upgraded player who played a huge role in repeating. we r the Lakers, we win titles now & worry bout the future later, we have that benefit cuz of our big market & sought after destination. plus Ariza fell off bad, he probably was just working hard his contract year like Sasha, we easily made the right choice

Wilson
10-03-2011, 06:58 PM
As much as I love Artest, the Ariza move has never added up. The only reason I can think of for not re-signing him is the Lakers thought he wasn't worth as much money as Houston were offering. But that doesn't make sense because we gave Artest pretty much the same money I think.

IDB Josh M
10-03-2011, 07:43 PM
Perhaps Ariza is offended that people like Sasha and Luke Walton gets paid, while he (who I will admit is a far better player than those two) was just getting what is essentially a mid level, and not treated with "respect."

Bruno
10-03-2011, 11:19 PM
First off Ariza has never regained that shooting prowess from the 3 or the field even in Adlemans system or with Chris Paul feeding him. He got hot at the right time, but let's not sugar coat the fact that he didn't shoot that way that whole year

This is where I think that context and role play a big part in a proper evaluation of his scoring efficiency.

In 2009 Ariza was within an offense with multiple scorers and go to players. His pressure to perform and produce efficiency was significantly lower than it was in Houston or New Orleans. For the 2009 season Ariza took the 5th most FGA's out of any Laker (Bynum was 6th, but only because he played 50 games, Ariza played 82). In regards to FGA per game, Ariza was sixth on the team. He was never doubled, never expected to score. This luxury allowed him to shoot lights out from the three come playoffs (49.7%).

The very next year in Houston he was 3rd in total FGA's. Offenses began to lock down on Ariza because they could (nobody else on Houston was a threat).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2010.html

Same deal in NOH last season. Third in FGAs on the team, as he essentially became the teams #2 after West got injured:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2011.html

IMO, Ariza was never able to get back to his lights out performance during the 2009 playoffs, behind the line because his offensive duties increased exponentially, he had more pressure to score, and no longer had the benefit of playing behind Bryant, Gasol, Bynum and Odom. Playing behind the leagues best wing in 2009, and one of the best front-courts allowed him the proper context to excel behind the line as a floor spreader.

Why didn't he do it in the regular season in 2009 then?
He was still recovering from injury, was still playing few minutes, and was still very young (23). When Jackson finally started him for the final 20 games of the regular season, Ariza hit his stride and maximized his role in the offense.

Would Ariza have shot 50% again in the playoffs during 2010 or 2011?
Doubt it. But even if he dropped off by 10% and shot 40% it would have hailed in comparison compared to what Artest gave us in 2010 (29%!).

To compare the team averages with Ariza during the 2009 championship, and Artest from the 2010 Championship:

2009:
Team offensive rating: 112.8 (3rd out of 30).
Team defensive rating: 104.7 (6th out of 30).
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html

2010:
Team offensive rating: 108.8 (11th out of 30) [Full four points lower than 09]
Team defensive rating: 103.7 (4th out of 30) [One point higher than '09]
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2010.html

You'll also notice both Bryant and Gasols TS% slip following the addition of Artest. Not having a floor spreader at the three makes their jobs a lot more difficult.


Secondly the fact is Ariza isn't a very good man defender

I'd disagree. He did a good job on Kobe in the 2011 first round:

Kobe: 22.5 PPG on 43.7% field goal shooting, 3.8 apg.

I'd be more open to a "he doesn't have the weight to body James/Pierce/Melo" type argument, than a "he isn't a good man defender" argument. Although when you click the box scores below from Ariza head to head match ups with the bulkier SF's there are multiple example of him limiting either their scoring or efficiency. You'd be surprised (I was after looking it up).

Here are several examples to Ariza holding elite SF's to either poor efficiency or below his average PPG this year with NOH:

Durant:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201011290OKC.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012100NOH.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201101240NOH.html

The only time in 2011 when Durant got off against NOH when was Ariza played limited minutes:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102020OKC.html

James:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201011050NOH.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012130MIA.html

Carmelo:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201010290NOH.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201101090DEN.html


Pierce:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012310BOS.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201103190NOH.html

I don't know how you can look at those box-scores, the results from those elite SF's and say that Ariza isn't a good on ball man defender.



The last issue I have is that Trevor took the same cash LA offered. He just wanted more because of bird rights. The fact his agent had strung out the Bynum negotiations, and Bynum had to make the deal happen didn't help matters. Trevor didn't put a muzzle on his agent nor was he even close to being the most important free agent on the team. Odom was a free agent and he had by far earned the right to a larger sum of cash for his level of play and the fact he didn't have a 1 year career outlier. You pay Trevor more and risk on his play showing that it was just a hot streak, which the past two seasons and his career before that run clearly shows it was. You also risk losing Lamar which hurts far more as Pau and Andrew aren't iron man by any means. And most improtantly if you wait for him to string you along you risk losing out on any shot at Artest and Marion who logic would say were options B and C, which in turn kills us because our only sf in Luke would be needing back and hip surgery and Kobe historically wears down the more he logs time at SF.

Here's where I agree with you. It's a shame how it all went down. Ariza made a mistake, but that doesn't mean that the front office didn't as well. I don't think either side came out a winner here.

mstrdrk
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
That's a great post Bruno. There are certain special players in the NBA, past and present, around whom a team is built. Guys like Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird are once in a lifetime players. Judging how the guys who play around them would be if they weren't playing with them is always difficult. To say that Ariza didn't do as well playing in Houston as he did in Los Angeles is really an expected outcome. Ariza is a role player, albeit a very good one at that. He is not someone you would rely on as one of your top three scorers. However, let's not forget his contributions in the championship series against the Magic. Fisher's 3 to win game 4 doesn't happen without Ariza's situational offensive spark in the 3rd quarter. Would we have beaten the Celtics with Ariza instead of Artest? I don't know, but we certainly could have used Ariza over Artest last year, when the Lakers looked old and tired.

Everything is situational. Would Worthy have been Big Game James without Magic feeding him the ball at the spots where he could best do something with it? Would Kareem's career have ended early had Magic not joined the Lakers? Would Shaq (or Kobe) have won those early championships without the other?

I know one thing. I argued that Ariza was a better player for the Lakers in the long run. Artest proved me wrong one year but also showed that I was right the next year. Had we played a more athletic team than the Celtics in 2010, then maybe we Artest wouldn't have been as instrumental in the win. This is why decisions have to be made with more than 1 or 2 years in mind. For example, what's the front office's 5 year plan, when Kobe is about ready to retire? Are we going to be mired in mediocrity like we were when Magic abruptly left and we were left with Sedale Threatt? My answer to that question lies in Orlando...but that's another topic of continued debate...

albertc86
10-12-2011, 10:06 PM
The Lakers wouldn't have beat the Celtics with Ariza. The Lakers needed Artest to get that job done. Pierce would've shitted on Ariza the entire series. Ariza's contributions to the Lakers is so overblown. Was Ariza a good fit? Yes. He was a decent defender and a decent slasher but that was about it. He isn't the lockdown defender that Artest is (or was). Ariza is more of a gambler on the defensive end and a bit sloppy on the offensive end. I don't know why Laker fans continue to talk about that guy.

LAOwnsAll15
10-15-2011, 04:14 AM
How is he still relevant in Laker Land?

While he did help us win a championship, its disrespectful to say we didnt appreciate that by not re-signing him. How should we have handled it? hand this guy a blank check for his only good year in his career? nope.

His agent failed him.

Continue to be a chase money journeyman throughout your career, while we keep making good personnel decisions and winning championships!

edit: It seems like Ariza has the "Wes Welker" effect: A player that does more then he is expected to simply because of the team/scheme he is in.

The only difference being that the Patriots front office is smart enough to realize this and doesnt reward such a player with a high amount of money like Ariza wanted. If Welker was to demand more money like Ariza, Would it be smart for his agent to hang him out to dry for a bigger check? or should be bring his client back down to earth? This is where Ariza's agent failed him.

IDB Josh M
10-15-2011, 02:52 PM
Yeah, we did overlook how Ariza helped us win a championship. But those who stick up from Ariza over artest, are you willing to pay ariza more money than Lamar Odom? Or more money than Pau Gasol? Or Bynum? Or Kobe?

Truth be told, he was offered what he was worth, and ended up taking the same amount of money the Lakers offered him.

ldawg
10-16-2011, 09:46 AM
Should have kept Ariza. Artest for three more years? Him and fisher need to hit the bench asap. I bet La would trade Artest for Ariza right now if they could. Ariza has value and can be traded not so much Artest anymore. That can change if he Plays better outside the triangle. But i think he needs to sit next to Odom at the start of the game him and fisher both. Kobe needs faster players by his side playing with two seven footers don't help if Fisher and Artest are slow aka MWP. Thats one slow a&s team.

KillaInstinct24
10-17-2011, 02:12 AM
fact is, with or without ariza, we still lose to dallas. it was inevitable. we might have won one game with him. nobody was beating dallas this year. ariza's athleticism doesn't change that. with this lockout and how the nba works, if he ever does come back to LA, he'll be as old and slow as Ron..err Metta.

magic0320
10-17-2011, 07:16 PM
I believe we might have lost to celtics in finals without Ron's help during game 7. I am still happy we got Ron over Travor.

ldawg
10-17-2011, 11:44 PM
Artest was a one year rental