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sox04rR
09-26-2011, 02:49 PM
I just have a question for everyone. As of recently people are always ragging on Billy saying he's an overhyped GM. I truely do not get that. He had potentioally 4 allstars in his pitching staff. He is putting out a competitive team with the payroll he is working with. I don't think he is overhyped at all. He's making good trades and drafting well. Please explain to me how he is overrated??

Halladay
09-26-2011, 02:52 PM
How many titles does he have?

Jeffy25
09-26-2011, 03:00 PM
Who cares how many titles he has. A GM can only create a playoff team. He doesn't play in, or manage any of the playoff games, he has zero control over the playoffs. He does get credit for putting together a 90 win team 5 years in a row on a shoe string budget though.

Beane is a solid top half/15 GM in baseball. Maybe top 10. He over thinks (I think) some of his moves, but he does a pretty good job overall.

People that haven't read Moneyball seem to hate on him because the A's aren't very strong right now, or because of his lack of playoff success (as though he somehow can control that). But he is a competent GM, better than half the league for sure.

1903
09-26-2011, 03:08 PM
The A's had 8 straight seasons were they played .500+ ball. That includes four 90+ wins seasons and two 100+ wins seasons. They were a .500 team last season. He is doing all this on a limited budget. I think some think he needs to be putting together 90+ win teams every season or he is no good.

roylikeswaffles
09-26-2011, 03:10 PM
who cares how many titles he has. A gm can only create a playoff team. He doesn't play in, or manage any of the playoff games, he has zero control over the playoffs. He does get credit for putting together a 90 win team 5 years in a row on a shoe string budget though.

Beane is a solid top half/15 gm in baseball. Maybe top 10. He over thinks (i think) some of his moves, but he does a pretty good job overall.

People that haven't read moneyball seem to hate on him because the a's aren't very strong right now, or because of his lack of playoff success (as though he somehow can control that). But he is a competent gm, better than half the league for sure.

+1

fingerbang
09-26-2011, 03:15 PM
I just have a question for everyone. As of recently people are always ragging on Billy saying he's an overhyped GM. I truely do not get that. He had potentioally 4 allstars in his pitching staff. He is putting out a competitive team with the payroll he is working with. I don't think he is overhyped at all. He's making good trades and drafting well. Please explain to me how he is overrated??

I think he's definitely an above average GM but the thing is... HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN OAKLAND ANYMORE.

He's hiding. It's an easy place for him to be. If they lose he can always blame it on the low payroll. On the other hand you have guys like Epstein and Cashman who consistently have to make big free agent acquisitions to compete. Some of those acquisitions will inevitably come back to bite them in the ***, that's just how free agency works. Beane doesn't have to deal with any of that. He's in a low stress setting. He is still very unproven.

sox04rR
09-26-2011, 03:31 PM
I think he's definitely an above average GM but the thing is... HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN OAKLAND ANYMORE.

He's hiding. It's an easy place for him to be. If they lose he can always blame it on the low payroll. On the other hand you have guys like Epstein and Cashman who consistently have to make big free agent acquisitions to compete. Some of those acquisitions will inevitably come back to bite them in the ***, that's just how free agency works. Beane doesn't have to deal with any of that. He's in a low stress setting. He is still very unproven.





To me that's bs. I think if he went somewhere like the cubs. He would have a bigger payroll which means he could do more things and be better then he is now...

fingerbang
09-26-2011, 03:44 PM
To me that's bs. I think if he went somewhere like the cubs. He would have a bigger payroll which means he could do more things and be better then he is now...

In theory that's how it would play it but we'll never know until he mans up and does it.

Big money GM's don't get evaluated based on small cheap signings. No one cares about Cashman signing Garcia, Colon, Jones, or Chavez. At the end of the day people look at Burnett's contract or Arod or Jeter or Posada etc etc...

When those guys stop producing everyone calls him an idiot.

If Beane goes to a big market he's going to be expected to win right away just like every other GM that's put into that position. That means he's going to have to make a big free agent signing or two. I think he'd hit and miss just like any other GM.

Beane hasn't proven that he can put together a championship team. He hasn't been forced to play that game at any point of his career.

Right now Beane's in a street race and he's using a Honda Civic and he's going up against Corvettes. He's got a Corvette in the garage but for whatever reason he doesn't want to take it out. He's content with losing as long as he keeps it close.

sox04rR
09-26-2011, 03:44 PM
To me the GM list is like this... Sry I'm on my iPhone

Friedman.
Theo
AA
Daniels
Towers
Braves GM
Melvin
Hunnigton
Beane
Cashman
Amareo
Jockety
Dombrowski
Odowd

Soothing on the lines of that...

behindmydesk
09-26-2011, 03:54 PM
I think he's definitely an above average GM but the thing is... HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN OAKLAND ANYMORE.

He's hiding. It's an easy place for him to be. If they lose he can always blame it on the low payroll. On the other hand you have guys like Epstein and Cashman who consistently have to make big free agent acquisitions to compete. Some of those acquisitions will inevitably come back to bite them in the ***, that's just how free agency works. Beane doesn't have to deal with any of that. He's in a low stress setting. He is still very unproven.

well he does own part of the team and is involved in the MLS

fingerbang
09-26-2011, 03:59 PM
well he does own part of the team and is involved in the MLS

Well I'm just talking about his role as the GM. As far as him being an entrepreneur goes, the A's have arguably the worst ownership in baseball so I don't think any of that is going to help his cause.

Giants-49ers-Ws
09-26-2011, 04:04 PM
He's not overrated, his track record is too good..especially with such a low payroll

yes, he has had his bumps in the road: decided to sign Chavez (Mr. Injury) long-term rather than Tejada who had many productive years after leaving Oakland

he may of been able to find payroll to keep Hudson whose also had many good years since playing days with A's (but not sure about this one)

he's made some questionable/poor trades: Hudson (he got ****** value in return); Swisher (he had at a very reasonable price tag and he was signed through this season with an option for '12..was also the fan favorite...Beane traded him prior to the '08 season, the A's offense has been **** the last 5 seasons..he did land Gio Gonzalez in deal however so still an okay deal); Carlos Gonzalez--not a classic BB's/Moneyball type player Beane sold early on him and instead got a half season of bad Matt Holliday before they traded him for no real value; Andre Ethier they traded as a prospect for Milton Bradley, Bradley did help get the A's to the ALCS in '06 but nothing else from there...

But Beane's also developed great talent for years from the Farm system: Big 3, Tejada, Chavez, Giambi, Damon, R. Hernandez, Harden (prior to injury), Street, Ellis, Blanton...sure i'm forgetting some key guys...to these days with Cahill, Bailey, J. Weeks

also, some great trades: Mulder for Dan Haren, etc...then Haren for Anderson, Cargo (before they traded him), etc...blanton for outman (very good in '10 before injury), cardenas (still one of a's top prospects), etc...

..and as we saw in the movie gets winning players via trade/affordable signings like Hatteberg, Justice, Rincon & Bradford...along with Dye, Isringhausen, Foulke, Ziegler, Willingham, etc...

overall, beane's done near a great job...though he has failed to develop hitters recently and has never won a game past the first round

it is crazy to think how good of a team they could've had through 2005-2006 had they had the $ to keep it intact:

1 Damon (CF)
2 Hatteberg (1B)
3 Tejada (SS)
4 Giambi (DH)
5 Chavez (3B)
6 Dye (RF)
7 Swisher (LF)
8 Hernandez (C)
9 Ellis (2B)

Byrnes (4th OF), Scutaro (IF Util).....and then there bread & butter pitching staff:

1 Hudson
2 Mulder (L)...or Haren
3 Zito (L)
4 Harden
5 Blanton/Lilly/Harang

CL- Foulke or Isringhausen or Street
- Rincon
- Bradford
- Duchscherer/Dotel, etc.

Uncle Sam
09-26-2011, 04:14 PM
I hope Oakland wins a world series soon just because id love to see a moneyball 2 where he finally wins it

Giants-49ers-Ws
09-26-2011, 04:22 PM
^ not dying 2 see an a's WS title...but yeah that would be sick to have a MoneyBall 2