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spreadeagle
09-22-2011, 08:12 PM
You would think that news about internal conflict in the Thunder locker room would come from the Daily Oklahoman, or, you know, someone west of the Mississippi. But the New York Daily News Saturday brought a hefty piece of intrigue to its pages regarding the Thunder. Apparently Kendrick PerkinsĎ arrival in OKC was controversial and brought some player unhappiness. And not just in the Celtics. From the Daily News:

As much as coach Scott Brooks chafes at GM Sam Prestiís meddling, his presence in the locker room, and his demands that the Thunder continue to improve from within, the organization is a lot more concerned with how Kendrick Perkins treats Russell Westbrook.

After arriving from the Celtics last season and being looked at as the veteran leader Oklahoma City needed to take the next step to compete for a title, Perkins went hard at Westbrook with his verbal criticisms, often saying that the Thunderís playmaker couldnít match Rajon Rondo as a playmaker. Those words didnít sit well with Westbrook, who already had been criticized for shooting too much and was the subject of a benching hard-round-the-NBA when the Thunder played the Mavs in June.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/17/report-kendrick-perkins-was-kind-of-a-jerk-to-russell-westbrook/

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 08:17 PM
yeah, this was mentioned before. Perk apparently has told Westbrook he isn't the creator that Rondo is. Um, Perk, the Thunder don't have 3 HOF'ers that make PG's look awesome, and Russell is exactly what Rondo isn't. A highly efficient scoring guard.

Both Rondo and Westbrook are great PG's, but picking which one depends on the structure of the team. Have capable scorers? Rondo. Need a PG who can score efficiently? Westbrook.

flea
09-22-2011, 08:27 PM
yeah, this was mentioned before. Perk apparently has told Westbrook he isn't the creator that Rondo is. Um, Perk, the Thunder don't have 3 HOF'ers that make PG's look awesome, and Russell is exactly what Rondo isn't. A highly efficient scoring guard.

Both Rondo and Westbrook are great PG's, but picking which one depends on the structure of the team. Have capable scorers? Rondo. Need a PG who can score efficiently? Westbrook.

I wouldn't call Westbrook an efficient scoring PG, and he's most definitely not "highly efficient". Efficient are players like CP3, Curry, and Nash. Westbrook is like Derrick Rose - a volume scorer who looks better than he actually is because of his team (in Rose's case, the defense). Fortunately for Westbrook he has Kevin Durant's efficiency to make his win total look good.

Mishmin
09-22-2011, 08:29 PM
And the he said she said continues..

Got we need to get playing basketball again soon.

23dragonzord
09-22-2011, 08:29 PM
I wouldn't call Westbrook an efficient scoring PG, and he's most definitely not "highly efficient". Efficient are players like CP3, Curry, and Nash. Westbrook is like Derrick Rose - a volume scorer who looks better than he actually is because of his team (in Rose's case, the defense). Fortunately for Westbrook he has Kevin Durant's efficiency to make his win total look good.

:facepalm:

NYman15
09-22-2011, 08:33 PM
It probably won't come down to this, but if they have to trade one of them, who do they trade? I still think they'll fix their issues and it won't come to this, but just wondering.

OGMarkWahlberg
09-22-2011, 08:36 PM
It probably won't come down to this, but if they have to trade one of them, who do they trade? I still think they'll fix their issues and it won't come to this, but just wondering.

Heard this report awhile back, kinda funny to be honest cause Perk didn't do anything since the trade ..

Nyman15 to answer your question I would say whoever Durant likes less you trade, make your superstar happy .. they most likely would trade Perk tho unless Westbrook is being traded for a CP3 type player

Tony_Starks
09-22-2011, 08:37 PM
Im all for Perk challenging Westbrook to bring out the best in him but trying diss his game in comparison to Rondo just sounds childish and personal. First off a whole lot of teams would take Westbrook over Rondo in a heartbeat. Second off both Perk and Rondo were the recipients of playing with allstars that demand all the attention. On normal teams they're just average role players......

Avenged
09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
It probably won't come down to this, but if they have to trade one of them, who do they trade? I still think they'll fix their issues and it won't come to this, but just wondering.

Shouldn't and won't be for debate. Westbrook is an NBA ALL-star in a league filled with very good guards.

Perkins? Can't even make the all-star team at the 5 in a league where they are lacking true Centers. With Ibaka on the rise, Perkins should probably stay shut an not go after the team's all-star player.

smith&wesson
09-22-2011, 08:52 PM
having a basket ball iq matters. if perkins had half a brain he would know that rondo is not the scorer westbrook is either. they are two different players.

theres a difference between a veteran leader and a player who comes on a team as the new guy and starts critisizeing his team mates. saying " your not the play maker rondo is" is disruptive and uncalled for. you dont put your team mate on blast and compare him to your ex team mate. that is the opposite of being a locker room guy. that is called being a **** disturber and the exact type of player you dont want in the locker room.

no love for perkins.

Mudvayne91
09-22-2011, 08:56 PM
I dislike both of these players very much, but I don't think Perkins cries as much about every call. He still cries, but Westbrook could be the worst in all of basketball. At least top 5.

links136
09-22-2011, 09:07 PM
Im all for Perk challenging Westbrook to bring out the best in him but trying diss his game in comparison to Rondo just sounds childish and personal. First off a whole lot of teams would take Westbrook over Rondo in a heartbeat. Second off both Perk and Rondo were the recipients of playing with allstars that demand all the attention. On normal teams they're just average role players......

I think i'd take Rondo. Both are very good defensively, neither are fantastic shooters, however Rondo is far more unselfish and a way better passer, which is what you want in a championship PG.

Also, Rondo is a phenomenal defender, playmaker and driver, those allstars just open more room and finish way better, certainly hand in glove fit for him. Perk was def a recipient though.

Westbrook on boston would probably get ugly the way he hogs shots. Those vets would smack him silly, which is probably where Perk is coming from.

Tony_Starks
09-22-2011, 09:24 PM
I think i'd take Rondo. Both are very good defensively, neither are fantastic shooters, however Rondo is far more unselfish and a way better passer, which is what you want in a championship PG.

Also, Rondo is a phenomenal defender, playmaker and driver, those allstars just open more room and finish way better, certainly hand in glove fit for him. Perk was def a recipient though.

Westbrook on boston would probably get ugly the way he hogs shots. Those vets would smack him silly, which is probably where Perk is coming from.


But part of Rondo being such a willing passer is because he can't shoot. Take someone like CP3 or D Williams who can actually pass and shoot and they 're still as good if not waaaaaay better.

I agree Westbrook has a ways to go maturity wise but keep in mind Rondo had the benefit of a veteran team and was gradually taught how to run the show as his stars aged, as opposed to Westbrook who was on one of the youngest teams in the league and has basically been learning on the fly.

Hustlenomics
09-22-2011, 09:33 PM
yeah, this was mentioned before. Perk apparently has told Westbrook he isn't the creator that Rondo is. Um, Perk, the Thunder don't have 3 HOF'ers that make PG's look awesome, and Russell is exactly what Rondo isn't. A highly efficient scoring guard.

Both Rondo and Westbrook are great PG's, but picking which one depends on the structure of the team. Have capable scorers? Rondo. Need a PG who can score efficiently? Westbrook.

you got it backwards lmaoo

naps
09-22-2011, 09:33 PM
Perkins is acting like a allstar here. The only reason he looked decent was because of the Celtics team or may be because of fantastic passing of Rondo. Now that he looks like a scrub on the low post he blames Westy. I believe if you are good/great, you should hold your own everywhere and Perkins is found nowhere in OKC. He should shut the hell up, go out there, and prove his worth.

links136
09-22-2011, 09:44 PM
But part of Rondo being such a willing passer is because he can't shoot. Take someone like CP3 or D Williams who can actually pass and shoot and they 're still as good if not waaaaaay better.

I agree Westbrook has a ways to go maturity wise but keep in mind Rondo had the benefit of a veteran team and was gradually taught how to run the show as his stars aged, as opposed to Westbrook who was on one of the youngest teams in the league and has basically been learning on the fly.

This is true. They are also both the top 2 pgs in the game for a reason. If Rondo could should like Nash i'd cream my pants.

And thats also why i'd chose rondo, he has that maturity for whatever reason he got it. It will never go away.

Sadds The Gr8
09-22-2011, 09:51 PM
The most overrated player in the league is overrating the 2nd most overrated player in the league. Westbrook >>>>>>>> Rondo. Rondo would be fading into irrelevance if it wasn't for the big 3, as would Perkins.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 09:51 PM
I wouldn't call Westbrook an efficient scoring PG, and he's most definitely not "highly efficient". Efficient are players like CP3, Curry, and Nash. Westbrook is like Derrick Rose - a volume scorer who looks better than he actually is because of his team (in Rose's case, the defense). Fortunately for Westbrook he has Kevin Durant's efficiency to make his win total look good.

I never said he was the most efficient, but he is indeed a very efficient scoring PG.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 09:53 PM
There are not too many trades for CP3 that the Thunder would accept but i KNOW they would gladly take Westbrook for CP3 is they knew Paul was leaving. It helps both teams. NO gets an all star caliber PG to build around and the Thunder get what they so sorely need; an elite playmaker that makes his teammates better.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 09:56 PM
I think i'd take Rondo. Both are very good defensively, neither are fantastic shooters, however Rondo is far more unselfish and a way better passer, which is what you want in a championship PG.

Also, Rondo is a phenomenal defender, playmaker and driver, those allstars just open more room and finish way better, certainly hand in glove fit for him. Perk was def a recipient though.

Westbrook on boston would probably get ugly the way he hogs shots. Those vets would smack him silly, which is probably where Perk is coming from.

I would love to see what Rondo can do without the blanket of unreal offensive options he has, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

Westbrook is a very good defender.

Would the Celtics be better with Westbrook? No way in my opinion. Would the Thunder be better with Rondo? Hell no

John Walls Era
09-22-2011, 09:57 PM
I would love to see what Rondo can do without the blanket of unreal offensive options he has, and I don't mean that in a bad way.

Westbrook is a very good defender.

Would the Celtics be better with Westbrook? No way in my opinion. Would the Thunder be better with Rondo? Hell no

Ummm what?

flea
09-22-2011, 10:07 PM
:facepalm:

Yes you're right, a career 42% shooter (27% from 3) is amazingly efficient. I'm not sure many guards in history can compete with such lofty efficiency. "Highly efficient" are the first two words that come to mind when I think of 42%.

69centers
09-22-2011, 10:13 PM
First off a whole lot of teams would take Westbrook over Rondo in a heartbeat.

OK, I call :bs: right here.


Would the Thunder be better with Rondo? Hell no

He's the better PG, so why wouldn't it make the Thunder better? Maybe not significantly, but any team would be better off with a distributor over a chucker.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 10:32 PM
Ummm what?

why would they? You replace Westbrook with Rondo, and the Thunder would be scoring starved.

Hustlenomics
09-22-2011, 10:34 PM
^ They have the scoring leader

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 10:42 PM
^ They have the scoring leader

and by flipping Rondo for Westbrook, you now give nearly complete offensive responsibility to Durant and hope and pray for Harden to become a machine.

The Celtics are in no need of a scoring PG. The Thunder are. Rondo would not make them a better team.

MTar786
09-22-2011, 10:43 PM
personally id take rondo over westbrook. im not a fan of scoring pg's such as rose or westbrook. id rather find that in a sg or sf..

the celtics and thunder should just do a trade back.. it'll help both teams.

llemon
09-22-2011, 11:00 PM
and by flipping Rondo for Westbrook, you now give nearly complete offensive responsibility to Durant and hope and pray for Harden to become a machine.

The Celtics are in no need of a scoring PG. The Thunder are. Rondo would not make them a better team.

The Celtics are in no need of a scoring PG? The Celtics are in need of just about everything.

Bulls_fan90
09-22-2011, 11:12 PM
I'd like to hear how Thunder fans feel about this (If there are any on PSD). As for me, I think Perkins has been horrible for the Thunder and is one of the most overated players in the league and should stfu or keep these comments within the team.

John Walls Era
09-22-2011, 11:33 PM
^ They have the scoring leader

Yeah thats what I was thinking.


and by flipping Rondo for Westbrook, you now give nearly complete offensive responsibility to Durant and hope and pray for Harden to become a machine.

The Celtics are in no need of a scoring PG. The Thunder are. Rondo would not make them a better team.

I kinda get what you mean. Thunder aren't filled with scorers (though Harden exploded in the playoffs). But Rondo to Ibaka could be a :drool:worthy connection.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-22-2011, 11:37 PM
I'd like to hear how Thunder fans feel about this (If there are any on PSD). As for me, I think Perkins has been horrible for the Thunder and is one of the most overated players in the league and should stfu or keep these comments within the team.



Perk is what he is..

A plus Defender

An Average Rebounder

Very limmited offensive game, Allthough he Knows his role, doesn't try and be someone hes not and only shoots high % shots. Heck per 36 in 09..he scored 13.2 on 60%

Hustlenomics
09-23-2011, 12:56 AM
Yeah thats what I was thinking.



I kinda get what you mean. Thunder aren't filled with scorers (though Harden exploded in the playoffs). But Rondo to Ibaka could be a :drool:worthy connection.

lol Rondo was getting 8 assist first quarters with old broken down Shaq catching alley hoops Imagine if he had an athletic team

hgtiger32
09-23-2011, 01:22 AM
perkins will be a member of the magic before you know it

Sinestro
09-23-2011, 02:07 AM
Eh just trade Perkins

beasted86
09-23-2011, 02:10 AM
Westbrook is efficient? I guess I've heard it all now.

I guess a guy can average 15 turnovers a night and shoot 35% from the field and be deemed efficient nowadays because of"TS%".

sventhedog
09-23-2011, 03:43 AM
yeah, this was mentioned before. Perk apparently has told Westbrook he isn't the creator that Rondo is. Um, Perk, the Thunder don't have 3 HOF'ers that make PG's look awesome, and Russell is exactly what Rondo isn't. A highly efficient scoring guard.

Both Rondo and Westbrook are great PG's, but picking which one depends on the structure of the team. Have capable scorers? Rondo. Need a PG who can score efficiently? Westbrook.

i agree with you except for westbrooke being a highly efficient scoring guard. he is a scorer, but highly efficient? i dunno.

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 08:08 AM
Heard this report awhile back, kinda funny to be honest cause Perk didn't do anything since the trade ..

Perkins played in 12 of the 55 Celtic games played last year while he was on the team, and Shaq was playing much better during that period then Perkins who hadn't and didn't recover from his knee issues.

OKC's need/desire for a big man forced that trade, and his contract will be seen as a boondoggle before all is said and done.

Rondo totally went over the deep end due to the trade of his best pal, and showed yet another emotionally weak aspect of his personality. He'll never be one of the main cogs on a Championship team. I wish the Celts would trade him, and I'd trade him for Westbrook in a heartbeat.

AntiG
09-23-2011, 08:08 AM
A bunch of you guys are missing the point here. The exact reason why Brooks benched Westbrook last year for Maynor was the same reason why Perk criticized him in an attempt to make him improve himself. Westbrook needs to take his game to the next level as a point guard - learn how to become more of a distributor instead of the ball hog and sloppy ballhandler that he is. Its great to be a scorer, if you are extremely efficient. The issue is, he takes a ton of shots and doesn't really do a great job setting others up hurts the team severely when his game is off. That just won't cut it for them to win. That's the great thing with Rondo, he's a true point guard. No matter if his shot is on or off, he is an efficient scorer and always pass first. There are days when he is putting up 5 points and others where he puts up 25, but no matter what he keeps the offense running efficiently.

You don't need to be an All-Star to criticize an immature ballhog of a teammate, so Perkins have every bit of a right to come at him especially after having been part of a successful championship team to bring a little wisdom to a team trying to reach that title.

As far as "3 HOFers" (at the end of their careers) certainly helps. But having Durant and Harden as your running mates is every bit as good at this point in their careers.

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 08:12 AM
Perk is what he is..

A plus Defender

An Average Rebounder

Very limmited offensive game, Allthough he Knows his role, doesn't try and be someone hes not and only shoots high % shots. Heck per 36 in 09..he scored 13.2 on 60%

Correction, that's who he was in 2007-2010, there is no proof that he can be that again, certainly not the abysmal 2010-2011 season, nor his recent arrest.

And HECK, last year he scored 8.4 Per 36 on .515/.556 which is pathetic, and his blocks went from 2.2 to 1.3 per 36.

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 08:17 AM
IWould the Celtics be better with Westbrook? No way in my opinion.

KG is in steep decline, PP and RA are poised to go into steep decline, Green is a volume type scorer, Rondo can't shoot, and if he's emotionally upset he can't play either. The Celts need a combo scoring/distributor PG, not a pure PG, that gets rebounds, and shoots like the last cut on a HS team.

The Celts win more with Westbrook this year and beyond. Rondo gets dealt after the bankrupt attempt at another title this year.

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Westbrook shooting trends (all on the way up):

eFG%: .414, .428, .454
FT%: .815, .780, .842
WS: 1.9, 6.1, 9.4

Rondo (2010-2011 when his team needed him more then ever, down the tubes):

eFG%: .424, .496, .514, .517, .482 (lots of lay-ups)
FT%: .647, .611, .642, .621, .568
WS: 2.4, 7.2, 9.9, 9.6, 6.6

Also, Rondo's TOV: 1.8, 1.9, 2.6, 3.0, 3.4

Rondo's foul shooting is SO bad that he has to sit a lot towards the end of games. His offense is so bad that outside of lay-ups, he's no threat with the rock as a shooter, so it's 5-4 time, toss in Perkins who is another offensive zero it's amazing the Celts did as well as they did the past few years. Toss in davis the owner of the most blocked FGA in the NBA for good measure. Davis will be gone, Perkins is gone, but Rondo's cast is getting old, more down trends, more outbursts, please trade this guy DA. He's not the solution, but a part of the problem now.

Doc has said he doesn't listen is amazingly stubborn. He more than any other player/event on the Celts flushed the season due to the Perkins trade. The 15 games after the trade - tanked. Playoffs? His worst performance in any year he was in the playoffs. It's a business. Things change, you move on.

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 09:25 AM
A bunch of you guys are missing the point here. The exact reason why Brooks benched Westbrook last year for Maynor was the same reason why Perk criticized him in an attempt to make him improve himself. Westbrook needs to take his game to the next level as a point guard - learn how to become more of a distributor instead of the ball hog and sloppy ballhandler that he is.

Are you sure about that?

Westbrook AST%: 27.5, 38.6, 42.7

faster climb then Rondo: 26.3, 28.2, 39.7, 43.7, 47.1

how about TOV%:

Rondo: 20.5, 15.7, 19.2, 19.3, 24.3
Westb: 17.6, 16.6, 15.9

I'd have to say that Westbrook might be a victim of subjective opinions based on his rookie year. Year 1-3 RW starched Rondo, last year due to Rondo's terrible TOV numbers, Westbrook again blasted him.

Believe me if you don't want RW, we'll be happy to take him.

Foye
09-23-2011, 09:31 AM
The problem with Westbrook is that his basketball IQ is really low.
Whenever I watch the OKC Thunder I can't help but thinking this guy is a super athletic player but dumb as *****.
Last game I have seen of him was in the Dallas-OKC series. (I think it was like crucial game 3 or 4)
In the 4th quarter he tried to take over the game, started ignoring Durant and his other teammates completely and almost anytime he had possession of the ball he tried to score. He scored on some but mostly it ended in a miss and Dallas was easily capable of adjusting their game and making the best out of Westbrook's me against the world attitude.
As a coach I would've taken him out midway through the 4th and never let him back in. He cost the Thunder that game alone.


Perk shouldn't critizise him that hard, though. That will only lead to destroying team chemistry and it's the coaches who should critizise him not other players.

Hustlenomics
09-23-2011, 09:32 AM
Perkins played in 12 of the 55 Celtic games played last year while he was on the team, and Shaq was playing much better during that period then Perkins who hadn't and didn't recover from his knee issues.

OKC's need/desire for a big man forced that trade, and his contract will be seen as a boondoggle before all is said and done.

Rondo totally went over the deep end due to the trade of his best pal, and showed yet another emotionally weak aspect of his personality. He'll never be one of the main cogs on a Championship team. I wish the Celts would trade him, and I'd trade him for Westbrook in a heartbeat.

he won a title with us as the starting point and led us to the finals again 2 years after that. Is there any player that you like in this league?

bagwell368
09-23-2011, 10:16 AM
he won a title with us as the starting point and led us to the finals again 2 years after that. Is there any player that you like in this league?

I was talking about him as being on a HOF pace after '10 (look it up) and got plenty of crap for it. I really liked him a lot. But his childish meltdown after the deal just proves he can't hack the sort of pressure being a top 2 or 3 player on a team going for a title has to face. Being the 4th/5th guy behind those 3 by comparison was easy.

His refusal to work with the coaches on free throw shots, and refusal to take advice on his game in general means the guy is just too high maintenance. He's even acted like a punk on the floor at times.

He's got a lot to prove IMO, much too much for someone with his talents and time in.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 10:43 AM
The Celtics are in no need of a scoring PG? The Celtics are in need of just about everything.

and as Rondo regressed last season over the last 50 games, the Celtics became less and less of a threat. During their 2008-10' run, they didn't need Rondo to score at all to succeed.

My point is, the Thunder have one scorer, and an up and coming Harden. Over the past 3 years, if you simply replace Westbrook with Rondo, the Thunder are now COMPLETELY dependent on Durant's offense. They would not have been as good over the past 3 years with Rondo running the show as they have with Westbrook. And vice versa, until very recently, the Celtics weren't in need of a scoring PG (and I will also disagree to an extent that they still need one, they just need theirs to enter average efficiency world).

PrettyBoyJ
09-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Perkins is so overrated it's not even funny.. All the talk about him being a true center good rebounder and defender is really a misconception guy is average on all areas and below average on offense... I'd rather have Kris Humpries as my big man

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 10:45 AM
KG is in steep decline, PP and RA are poised to go into steep decline, Green is a volume type scorer, Rondo can't shoot, and if he's emotionally upset he can't play either. The Celts need a combo scoring/distributor PG, not a pure PG, that gets rebounds, and shoots like the last cut on a HS team.

The Celts win more with Westbrook this year and beyond. Rondo gets dealt after the bankrupt attempt at another title this year.

going forward, yes the Celtics are better with Westbrook, and the Thunder are possibly better with Rondo (IF Harden wasn't just a tease). But until now, nope, both teams are better with their respective PG's.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 10:49 AM
Perkins is so overrated it's not even funny.. All the talk about him being a true center good rebounder and defender is really a misconception guy is average on all areas and below average on offense... I'd rather have Kris Humpries as my big man

I literally got in a huge fight with a member of the Wolves board over Perkins. He said he is an all star center who changes games. Um, take him away from the KG and co. protection, and you just pick and roll him into oblivion. Perkins is a center who lived off being surrounded by tons of talent to make his game look good. There is no way he is a all star caliber center in any way, shape, or form. While I understand it hurt to let him go for the Celtics, because they had the PERFECT pieces to put around him and hide his deficiencies, there is no way you commit a lot of money to a 6'10", out of shape center who can't score, and whose only strength is looking like Hannibal Lecter

SteBO
09-23-2011, 10:50 AM
As a teammate, Perkins should be supporting him as opposed to criticising him. He hasn't earned that right imo and it shows how out of the loop he is about his own team. I mean, no **** Perk. Westbrook is who he is; a PG with a scorers mentality. Does he have work to do on the distributing end? Sure he does. But he'll get better with time. But to compare Rondo to Westbrook is asinine. They play two completely different styles of basketball, and the team structures are different as well.

Perkins running his mouth like that isn't helping anyone. Not Westbrook, not himself, and most importantly, not the OKC Thunder.

bcc
09-23-2011, 11:07 AM
yeah, this was mentioned before. Perk apparently has told Westbrook he isn't the creator that Rondo is. Um, Perk, the Thunder don't have 3 HOF'ers that make PG's look awesome, and Russell is exactly what Rondo isn't. A highly efficient scoring guard.

Both Rondo and Westbrook are great PG's, but picking which one depends on the structure of the team. Have capable scorers? Rondo. Need a PG who can score efficiently? Westbrook.


Someone needs to google "efficient."
30 shots in a playoff game?
A 42% career shooting percentage?
Under a 2.5/1 assist/turnover ratio (Rondo's well over 3.5/1)

Talented player.
Efficient he ain't.

ghettosean
09-23-2011, 12:18 PM
I have to agree with Perkins on this but to be hoenst I think he was just trying to light a fire under Westbrooks but to make him more of a passer. I don't think he a highly efficient scorer and I will say that I was very dissapointed by the lack of setups for Durant (especially when he was hot in the playoffs).

Perk is just giving tough love I see nothing else behind this and he learned from K.G... K.G and Rondo never got along initially when they joined forces because Garnett is all business and doesn't like joking around and supposedly the 1st year they were together they almost went to blows with each other in the locker room. To be honest though look at Rondo know he's a fantastic point gaurd and now people are arguing that the big 3 on the celts should be called the big 4!!!

Perk is trying to do the samething with Westbrook and I hope it works cause he needs a good kick in the ***!!!

Chronz
09-23-2011, 12:24 PM
Westbrook is efficient? I guess I've heard it all now.

I guess a guy can average 15 turnovers a night and shoot 35% from the field and be deemed efficient nowadays because of"TS%".
I think your letting a playoff run where he chucked to his hearts content clowd your judgement of him as a player. Those other 82 games matter you know

Sly Guy
09-23-2011, 12:27 PM
lol, I'd be telling that trigger happy westbrook the same thing if I were him. Don't keep blowing sunshine up his *s* if that's not the case.

PhillyBoomerang
09-23-2011, 12:42 PM
Big Mistake for both teams. Jeff green Was a very popular player for the Thunder, the 3rd value as the 3rd option. both Teams should do a trade back almost. Thunder would have been a lot better off getting Tyson a few years ago then dealing the player they traded Ray Allen for in 07. It was clear the the Thunder did need a big man, however with seeing how the teams responded after the trade you have to think this was a mistake. Russell Westbrook is one of those few amazing players in the game that gets dumped on for no reason. He became such a better player as the years go by its sad that the trio they started the team off cant see it through. Instead Perk who only fits the Celtics scheme because he isa hard nose tough interior player but offensively challenged, which when you have Pierce/allen/KG its easy to not want KP taking shots. it worked out and the Celtics 1 and almost won 2. Green while breathing energy into the team could not give the toughness that KP gave.

So basically they both had problems, solved the problem by making a whole bunch of new ones.. pretty bad deal should have taken Tyson for Etan thomas and crap.. fools!! Thunder need a new 3rd option outside of KD and RW now it showed in the playoffs outmatched by the options of Dallas.

ChitownSports16
09-23-2011, 01:05 PM
As much as I dislike these 3 clowns... I pick Westbrook>Rondo and Perkins

Evolution23
09-23-2011, 01:27 PM
Shouldn't and won't be for debate. Westbrook is an NBA ALL-star in a league filled with very good guards.

Perkins? Can't even make the all-star team at the 5 in a league where they are lacking true Centers. With Ibaka on the rise, Perkins should probably stay shut an not go after the team's all-star player.

Even though Westbrook is the better player. If you can package him with some other players for a CP3 you make the move. That way OKC can have a balanced team of Durant, CP3, and Perks in the middle.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 01:30 PM
Someone needs to google "efficient."
30 shots in a playoff game?
A 42% career shooting percentage?
Under a 2.5/1 assist/turnover ratio (Rondo's well over 3.5/1)

Talented player.
Efficient he ain't.

53.8% TS
23.6 PER
110 offensive rating

compare that to Rondo and the league averages

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 01:38 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rondora01&y1=2011&p2=westbru01&y2=2011

If you can't see a huge difference, you need to take stats 101. Their assists are a ton closer than many of you think, and look at Rondo's horrendous turnover rate. I will say, if Rondo wasn't arguably one of the worst free throw shooting guards in history, he would be a ton more efficient. That is literally where Westbrook pulls away in a hurry

beasted86
09-23-2011, 01:49 PM
53.8% TS

Can you make a case for Westbrook being efficient other than relying on TS% heavily as the main basis?

It just seems no matter how bad a decision maker a player can be in shot selection and ball handling, that if he gets to the line at a decent rate and shoots a high FT%, his TS% will undoubtedly be high, and you guys can use that as a basis for efficiency disregarding the rest.

According to TS% guys like Westbrook and Stuckey are some of the more efficient guards in the league, when that's not close to the case.

Chronz
09-23-2011, 02:14 PM
Can you make a case for Westbrook being efficient other than relying on TS% heavily as the main basis?
(Edit: Thats why he posted other stats)

Maybe your not understanding the argument, his TS% is actually below league average. Its his combination of efficiency and usage that makes him worthy of the title. Compared to joe blow who stands around and makes open 3s all day hes not as efficient, heck even compared to players in his realm as a goto option have higher TS% (Aside from Melo) but saying the kid is efficient is pretty easy. 110 Off RTG + his usage%, thats up there with the best. If you want to focus primarily on per possession efficiency then there are heaps better.


It just seems no matter how bad a decision maker a player can be in shot selection and ball handling, that if he gets to the line at a decent rate and shoots a high FT%, his TS% will undoubtedly be high, and you guys can use that as a basis for efficiency disregarding the rest.
If those strengths offset those weaknesses then yes, if hes as wreckless as your assuming then his OFF.RTG will expose it.


According to TS% guys like Westbrook and Stuckey are some of the more efficient guards in the league, when that's not close to the case.

According SOLELY to TS% Stuckey ranks 164th. Not sure what your trying to say here

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 03:02 PM
Can you make a case for Westbrook being efficient other than relying on TS% heavily as the main basis?

It just seems no matter how bad a decision maker a player can be in shot selection and ball handling, that if he gets to the line at a decent rate and shoots a high FT%, his TS% will undoubtedly be high, and you guys can use that as a basis for efficiency disregarding the rest.

According to TS% guys like Westbrook and Stuckey are some of the more efficient guards in the league, when that's not close to the case.

TS% is scoring efficiency. Westbrook's is consistent with plenty of stars. His offensive rating would be negatively effected if he was a bad decision maker and turned the ball over a ton. But his offensive rating is 110, which is very good for a PG with that amount of responsibility.

Stuckey? He actually did have a very good year individually, but he isn't the overall player Westbrook is.

beasted86
09-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm not going into any detail because our difference of opinion is weighed heavily on a vast disparity in how we analyze stats, a disparity that's not going to grow any closer based on a few paragraphs typed in this thread...

But I'll tell you flat out that public perception of Westbrook & Stuckey being only average to below average in efficiency for premier guards is not without good reason.

Wisdom Listens
09-23-2011, 03:29 PM
LOL at people who solely use shooting % to judge a player on scoring efficiency.

Chronz
09-23-2011, 03:39 PM
I'm not going into any detail because our difference of opinion is weighed heavily on a vast disparity in how we analyze stats, a disparity that's not going to grow any closer based on a few paragraphs typed in this thread...

But I'll tell you flat out that public perception of Westbrook & Stuckey being only average to below average in efficiency for premier guards is not without good reason.

Thats the same BS I heard when Chauncey Billups was beginning his prime. Public perception never trumps actual analysis.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 03:50 PM
I'm not going into any detail because our difference of opinion is weighed heavily on a vast disparity in how we analyze stats, a disparity that's not going to grow any closer based on a few paragraphs typed in this thread...

But I'll tell you flat out that public perception of Westbrook & Stuckey being only average to below average in efficiency for premier guards is not without good reason.

Your second paragraph is why I joined this site. I like to talk to more intelligent fans that understand how to measure, not a dude at the water cooler who only pays attention to his local team and reads daily boxscores.

I am not implying you are this, simply addressing the post.

greenbaythunder
09-23-2011, 04:24 PM
Does russ have to better his play hell yes but so does every other player on that team including kd but its not lik any of them are 30+ so they still have time to get better. I think once jeff got traded russ tried to pick up his points in starting rotation giving that its only him and kd as scoring options out there honestly.

Presti shoulda just went with what he started by building thru the draft and just try aldrich and make jeff a sixth man. Because honestly cole couldn't have done much worse then perk did in the playoffs

Sactown
09-23-2011, 06:28 PM
I like the idea of Perkins challenging other plays on the team to become better, but he is going at it the wrong way by throwing rondo in his face as a superior passer.. It's almost the same as if Westbrook were to throw Dwight Howard's abilities in front of Perkins.. nobody wins.. childish