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Fresno
09-21-2011, 10:59 PM
http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_basketball_heat/2011/09/miami-heat-free-agent-focus-allen-iverson.html


Pros:
- Hes stated a few times hes serious about this return to the NBA and is willing to play any role to win a Championship.

- He can play PG or SG coming off the bench and at the very least is a better veteran option to have than Eddie House, Mike Bibby, or Carlos Arroyo.

- Clutch performer who'll step it up in the Playoffs regardless espescially if this is his last chance at winning a title.


Cons:

- If he is committed to being serious about winning a title, you wont have to worry about him quitting as what happened on losing teams in Detroit, Memphis, & Philadelphia.

- Does he still have speed? Hes not as fast as he was 15 years ago, but can an in-shape Iverson not be a defensive liability on the floor?

- Can he play PG sharing the ball with Wade & LeBron for a stretch in the game? Can he adjust his game like Gary Payton did on the Heat's title team?

Of course, this would be after the Lockout is over and teams are scrambling to fill spots.

llemon
09-21-2011, 11:00 PM
Absolutely.

likemystylez
09-21-2011, 11:06 PM
they cant sign anybody during the lock out.

Iverson might be 50 years old by the time this thing ends

Fresno
09-21-2011, 11:07 PM
Absolutely.

No lie, I'd love to see it. If Iverson is serious about winning, he'd be a huge presence off the bench letting Wade rest. The thought of him coming back from being exiled from the NBA to playing in Turkey and sitting out a whole NBA season to playing in another NBA Finals would be the story of the year.

We all know Iverson would give 150% in the NBA Finals. He'd be playing his heart out at this opportunity.

Pat Riley seemingly is the only guy right now who'd take such a huge risk if Iverson puts his ego aside. If he is, I'd do that deal on a 1 year/vet minimum($1.2 Million).

Fresno
09-21-2011, 11:08 PM
they cant sign anybody during the lock out.

Iverson might be 50 years old by the time this thing ends

Obviously once the lockout ends.

Bausman
09-21-2011, 11:12 PM
I hope not cause then Id kinda want Miami to win... and I dont want to want that.

He should go to LA. '96 big 3 against '03 big 3.

Geargo Wallace
09-21-2011, 11:12 PM
If he goes to practice.

Bausman
09-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Btw I voted yes he'd be a good fit... but I dont want to see it happen

Bausman
09-21-2011, 11:13 PM
If he goes to practice.

Practice?

Evolution23
09-21-2011, 11:16 PM
As some one who respects and likes Iverson, I don't wanna see him on the Heat getting hated on.

Ezio
09-21-2011, 11:17 PM
Rather see him with the Magic.

llemon
09-21-2011, 11:18 PM
No lie, I'd love to see it. If Iverson is serious about winning, he'd be a huge presence off the bench letting Wade rest. The thought of him coming back from being exiled from the NBA to playing in Turkey and sitting out a whole NBA season to playing in another NBA Finals would be the story of the year.

We all know Iverson would give 150% in the NBA Finals. He'd be playing his heart out at this opportunity.

Pat Riley seemingly is the only guy right now who'd take such a huge risk if Iverson puts his ego aside. If he is, I'd do that deal on a 1 year/vet minimum($1.2 Million).

Iverson deserves more than the Vets' Min, just for his astounding defensive abilities and his saint-like attitude towards unselfish play.

MLE, at the very least.

Maybe trade Bosh for capspace so Heat can pay AI the max.

TheRunKiller
09-21-2011, 11:18 PM
No they already have 2 ball hogs they don't need another one

PurpleJesus
09-21-2011, 11:25 PM
No they already have 2 ball hogs they don't need another one

who are the ball hogs on that team? I cant imagine you are talking about lebron and his 7 assts per game, or wade and his 6 assts per game...which two ball hogs are you talking about? Haslem and House maybe?

Sinestro
09-21-2011, 11:25 PM
Nah Miami should focus on getting a decent center, imo Chalmers can be a pretty decent player if they just give him time

llemon
09-22-2011, 12:15 AM
who are the ball hogs on that team? I cant imagine you are talking about lebron and his 7 assts per game, or wade and his 6 assts per game...which two ball hogs are you talking about? Haslem and House maybe?

Iverson has averaged more than 7 apg in a season, hasn't he?

Hustlenomics
09-22-2011, 12:16 AM
I would hate to root against him

gwrighter
09-22-2011, 12:16 AM
first Eddy Curry, now Iverson? won't put MIA over the hump. he's washed up & too old. He's lost all of the athletic ability which made him so deadly & he's never been a PG stopper by any means. If i was a heat fan i'd puff puff pass.

GREATNESS ONE
09-22-2011, 12:27 AM
hahah Yes !! That would be awesome !!

meloman1592
09-22-2011, 12:54 AM
As a Knick fan I'm torn. I love AI but I hate the heat. However they'd probably give him the best chance to win a chip. Miami or LA hopefully, for his sake.

H0T SAUCE
09-22-2011, 01:03 AM
Who ever he goes on will get a steal. I think L.A or Orlando will be good fits.. maaaaybe Once

PG* Westbrook / Iverson / Maynor
SG* Harden / Sefo / Jackson
SF* Durant / Sefo
PF* Ibaka / Collison
C* Perkins / Mohammed / Aldrich

Rndy
09-22-2011, 01:08 AM
I don't think he helps Miami much he's not a very good 3 point shooter which In my opinion is one of their biggest needs besides center of course. But it's really a low risk high reward type thing.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:09 AM
first Eddy Curry, now Iverson? won't put MIA over the hump. he's washed up & too old. He's lost all of the athletic ability which made him so deadly & he's never been a PG stopper by any means. If i was a heat fan i'd puff puff pass.

But he was on any entirely different level then. Of course guys get older & slower, but are you telling me AI cant be effective? I disagree completely.

We're not talking about him coming to Miami and having to take 20+ shots a game carrying a team on his back like he did for 95% of his career.

Just talking about a reduced role playing off of LeBron & Wade in an attempt to bring some veteran experience/scoring off the bench. He doesnt need to start at PG, but just split time with Chalmers. Basically 20 MPG. You dont think he can be effective in 20 minutes? Come on now. Some games he might be "hot" and play most of the game.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbxu_1H25UY

gwrighter, Look what he did in Turkey while not even having any experience in Europe style of basketball or with his teammates.

Still has a killer crossover to create space, still can create his own shot, still has a quick release, & I'm willing to bet he can put up at least 10 PPG off the bench in a reduced role.

fadedmario
09-22-2011, 01:17 AM
He's pure trash

PurpleJesus
09-22-2011, 01:18 AM
Iverson has averaged more than 7 apg in a season, hasn't he?

his career numbers of 6 assts per game is pretty low for someone who often ran the point.

gwrighter
09-22-2011, 01:32 AM
But he was on any entirely different level then. Of course guys get older & slower, but are you telling me AI cant be effective? I disagree completely.

We're not talking about him coming to Miami and having to take 20+ shots a game carrying a team on his back like he did for 95% of his career.

Just talking about a reduced role playing off of LeBron & Wade in an attempt to bring some veteran experience/scoring off the bench. He doesnt need to start at PG, but just split time with Chalmers. Basically 20 MPG. You dont think he can be effective in 20 minutes? Come on now. Some games he might be "hot" and play most of the game.

Iverson is a slasher & plays Wade's role. he & wade won't work together as an effective back court imo. He's never played off ball & i doubt he'l be able to transition effectively to that role as he isn't a consistent threat from downtown. neither does he possess the blow by speed that he once had. I just don't think he'l have a net positive gain on the court. he is going to get eaten alive by even backup PG's that are younger/stronger/more athletic than he is. He was never known for his D & was an opportunist at best in the passing lanes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbxu_1H25UY

gwrighter, Look what he did in Turkey while not even having any experience in Europe style of basketball or with his teammates.

Still has a killer crossover to create space, still can create his own shot, still has a quick release, & I'm willing to bet he can put up at least 10 PPG off the bench in a reduced role.

he'l never lose that handle, but the turkish league doesn't necessarily provide the best competition. imo they are far behind athletically. The PG position in the NBA has become too big & strong for him at this point in his career, the heat are better off using the MLE to buy a scoring guard on discount. I would have said Barbosa but he's still under contract for 1 more year with the Raptors.

correction: he has played off ball but not as a second option. i doubt any of us think he can guard 2's at this stage of his career.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:34 AM
his career numbers of 6 assts per game is pretty low for someone who often ran the point.

He played SG a lot as well.

It was Eric Snow who was running the Point putting up 6+APG. When Eric Snow went to Cleveland, Iverson put up 7+ APG basically running the Point.

Strangly enough he was more efficient as a scorer when he averaged 7+APG at PG than he was when he was when he played SG next to Snow.

Im guessing the threat of him passing made him tougher to guard thus giving him space to make a shot.

THE GIPPER
09-22-2011, 01:36 AM
Iverson has averaged more than 7 apg in a season, hasn't he?

In 6 of Iversons 14 seasons he averaged at least 7 apg.

masTOR_shake1
09-22-2011, 01:38 AM
I suggest a 4th voting option;

"**** the heat and the rigged, embarrassing nba" - everyone not in la, miami, boston.

I hope the nba stays locked out for ever and ever.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 01:42 AM
Wade and LeBron are among the top 5 in possession usage every year. The Heat don't need another high usage guy, especially one that can't play much D. Still do love me some Iverson though ...

beasted86
09-22-2011, 01:43 AM
Rather see what Norris Cole has to offer first. Developing him is a priority.

I think Atlanta is a good fit for him as a replacement for Jamal Crawford who they more than likely will not be re-signing. His home is in Atlanta, as well as his kids and ex-wife, and they are a 2nd round or better playoff team. For the minimum, he's priced right to help the Hawks avoid the luxury tax, and they get a bench scorer in return hopefully.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:45 AM
Iverson is a slasher & plays Wade's role. he & wade won't work together as an effective back court imo.
Thats why he'd come off the bench.


He's never played off ball & i doubt he'l be able to transition effectively to that role as he isn't a consistent threat from downtown.
He played off the ball in Denver.

Im not saying hes a knockdown shooter off the ball, but its not like he cant be effective in his own way as he adjusts to his teammates. You still have to respect his pumpfake into a pull up jumper. Thats been a "Go to move" of his for years.




neither does he possess the blow by speed that he once had. I just don't think he'l have a net positive gain on the court. he is going to get eaten alive by even backup PG's that are younger/stronger/more athletic than he is. He was never known for his D & was an opportunist at best in the passing lanes.

Can he be worse than Bibby & Arroyo? Just looking at the PG's available, you really gotta give him some sort of credit. Im not saying hes going to be a "good" defender but he should still be able to jump the passing lanes, that anticipation instinct on D never leaves.

You're right he'll get abused by Rose, Wall, Tyreke, etc but so does most PG's in the NBA. Its not even like he'd be forced to guard them when he'd have Wade & LeBron on the perimeter in help defense. With the way they were playing team defense last season, it'd be tough for Iverson to be singled out and exploited all game on D.





he'l never lose that handle, but the turkish league doesn't necessarily provide the best competition. imo they are far behind athletically. The PG position in the NBA has become too big & strong for him at this point in his career, the heat are better off using the MLE to buy a scoring guard on discount. I would have said Barbosa but he's still under contract for 1 more year with the Raptors.

Im not saying for them to use the MLE.

Im talking the Veterans Exception for a 1 year deal.

The article mentions that too.

With the guards out there as Free Agents he's the only one really who can handle PG or SG duties since Aaron Brooks is a longshot since hes a Restricted Free Agent.

You're acting like Iverson is deadly slow or something, he can still keep pace with most PG's in this league(including backups/3rd string) even at 36. He was at a whole nother level we hadnt seen until Rose/Wall arrived, I'm sure hes lost a step but you have to remember what kind of Elite step he had in the first place.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 01:49 AM
Rather see what Norris Cole has to offer first. Developing him is a priority.

I think Atlanta is a good fit for him as a replacement for Jamal Crawford who they more than likely will not be re-signing. His home is in Atlanta, as well as his kids and ex-wife, and they are a 2nd round or better playoff team. For the minimum, he's priced right to help the Hawks avoid the luxury tax, and they get a bench scorer in return hopefully.

Yeah, Norris Cole is sick. I'm not much of a Heat fan, but that was a great pickup. I kept waiting for teams to wise up and snatch him around 15-20 -- especially after he came in tall at the combine -- but he hung around.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:49 AM
Rather see what Norris Cole has to offer first. Developing him is a priority.

I think Atlanta is a good fit for him as a replacement for Jamal Crawford who they more than likely will not be re-signing. His home is in Atlanta, as well as his kids and ex-wife, and they are a 2nd round or better playoff team. For the minimum, he's priced right to help the Hawks avoid the luxury tax, and they get a bench scorer in return hopefully.

Not sure how much PT he'd get since they finally found their starting PG in Teague. Then you have Hinrich off the bench as a 6th Man who can play PG or SG.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:55 AM
Yeah, Norris Cole is sick. I'm not much of a Heat fan, but that was a great pickup. I kept waiting for teams to wise up and snatch him around 15-20 -- especially after he came in tall at the combine -- but he hung around.

I thought they should've grabbed Josh Selby. He really has looked like an explosive athlete with a serious game this summer backing up why they put him as the #1 recruit. Almost like a raw Russell Westbrook but with a better jumper. Hes 20 with a lot of upside too.

tbh I'm not sold on a guy like Cole from a small school like Cleveland State coming in to the NBA. I didnt even know of this guy until I saw Doug Gottlieb hyping him up as the best PG in the country. I was like "Who has he played?". But we'll see. You gotta be good if you running PG next to Wade & LeBron.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 01:59 AM
LOL @ the poll results.

11
11
11

Iverson is just so polarizing of a player/person its almost like everybody has their own opinion and stick to it. One of the few players/people who you'll get split opinions on from everyone you ask about him.

naps
09-22-2011, 02:02 AM
No they already have 2 ball hogs they don't need another one

Well, Derrick Rose doesn't play for Miami though. You must be thinking about the Bulls. They have the biggest ballhog on the planet.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 02:04 AM
I thought they should've grabbed Josh Selby. He really has looked like an explosive athlete with a serious game this summer backing up why they put him as the #1 recruit. Almost like a raw Russell Westbrook but with a better jumper. Hes 20 with a lot of upside too.

tbh I'm not sold on a guy like Cole from a small school like Cleveland State coming in to the NBA. I didnt even know of this guy until I saw Doug Gottlieb hyping him up as the best PG in the country. I was like "Who has he played?". But we'll see. You gotta be good if you running PG next to Wade & LeBron.

The small school thing was his only significant detractor. That should say a lot. No one could find much fault in his game.

I've seen him play. He's a pure scorer, quick and athletic, with a solid jumper. Sometimes the transition from the "IT" guy to role player can be tough and throw off guys' games. If that doesn't happen, Cole will be just fine.

beasted86
09-22-2011, 02:04 AM
Not sure how much PT he'd get since they finally found their starting PG in Teague. Then you have Hinrich off the bench as a 6th Man who can play PG or SG.

Hinrich isn't a scorer really, and with Crawford leaving, it opens up minutes at the SG.

Before basically they'd split the 1/2/3 something like this:

PG: Hinrich 30 / Teague 18
SG: Johnson 18 / Crawford 30
SF: Williams 30 / Johnson 18

Now it'll be something like this:

PG: Teague 30 / Hinrich 18
SG: Johnson 18 / Hinrich 10 / ???
SF: Williams 30 / Johnson 18

Teague gets 30, Johnson is still at 36, Hinrich is at 28, and Williams is at 30. So there is enough minutes for all of those guys, yet the "???" relates to there still being 20 minutes left at the SG spot that needs to be filled.

Iverson could play in the same role they gave Flip Murray when he was with the Hawks as the streaky bench scorer.

naps
09-22-2011, 02:10 AM
As a Knick fan I'm torn. I love AI but I hate the heat. However they'd probably give him the best chance to win a chip. Miami or LA hopefully, for his sake.

Well, but you are not a Knicks fan.


Here is one of your threads (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426692) in the Nuggets forum where clearly stated you were a Nuggets fan.

And this page (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/search.php?searchid=19832454) shows how you transformed from a Nuggets fan to a Knicks fan. (Look at the right most column (Forum) from bottom to top).

I am sorry for exposing your true identity .

Fresno
09-22-2011, 02:15 AM
Well, but you are not a Knicks fan.


Here is one of your threads (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426692) in the Nuggets forum where clearly stated you were a Nuggets fan.

And this page (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/search.php?searchid=19832454) shows how you transformed from a Nuggets fan to a Knicks fan. (Look at the right most column (Forum) from bottom to top).

I am sorry for exposing you true identity .

:laugh2:

Ebbs
09-22-2011, 02:21 AM
I'd love to see it. AI gets a ring!

Gators123
09-22-2011, 02:30 AM
He was pretty bad a couple seasons ago, 36 year old AI would be terrible.

Birdmannn
09-22-2011, 02:44 AM
Do it at min. Cant hurt to try, he could be a spark in games to get the team going, be like the heats Jason Terry?

DJakk
09-22-2011, 02:49 AM
He would absolutely destroy any chemistry that was hardly there and just create to much drama in the locker room. He would want better money than Lebron anyways and it just wouldn't happen.

Stuckey#3
09-22-2011, 02:50 AM
Hell yeah!

Sign AI and Eddie Curry. Don't stop there though... sign Marbury, Darius Miles and bring back Antoine Walker.

PG- Starburry
SG- AI
SF- Miles
PF- Walker
C- Curry

That would be a sick team if they were playing in 2003... in a prison.

Stuckey#3
09-22-2011, 02:52 AM
I just spent the better part of two weeks defending AI's place on the all time list...
But he isn't going to be able to provide anything for a contending team at this stage of his career. He's lost his speed and his handles. He can still shoot and has a high bball iq. He might be able to contribute in a TMac type role player at best.

MJ-BULLS
09-22-2011, 03:17 AM
I doubt alot of heat fans want him anyway.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-22-2011, 04:40 AM
AI is trash now.

Geargo Wallace
09-22-2011, 08:11 AM
Keep him as a practice player...

mjm07
09-22-2011, 08:57 AM
No, thank you!

lmao @ meloman

CB29
09-22-2011, 09:18 AM
go to the lakers son

Sly Guy
09-22-2011, 09:30 AM
absolutely yes. The one thing miami needs is another ego that believes he is a 30 shot per game player.

LongIslandIcedZ
09-22-2011, 09:35 AM
No lie, I'd love to see it. If Iverson is serious about winning, he'd be a huge presence off the bench letting Wade rest. The thought of him coming back from being exiled from the NBA to playing in Turkey and sitting out a whole NBA season to playing in another NBA Finals would be the story of the year.

We all know Iverson would give 150% in the NBA Finals. He'd be playing his heart out at this opportunity.

Pat Riley seemingly is the only guy right now who'd take such a huge risk if Iverson puts his ego aside. If he is, I'd do that deal on a 1 year/vet minimum($1.2 Million).

I hate hate hate the Heat, but after reading that I kinda hope it happens

Mishmin
09-22-2011, 10:05 AM
The correct answer is: no

But as a celtics fan, I'd love for that another ego to get wedged up in that system.

gwrighter
09-22-2011, 10:05 AM
Thats why he'd come off the bench.


He played off the ball in Denver.

That was a long time ago. He is no where near the shape he was in then.


Im not saying hes a knockdown shooter off the ball, but its not like he cant be effective in his own way as he adjusts to his teammates. You still have to respect his pumpfake into a pull up jumper. Thats been a "Go to move" of his for years.

Im thinking in the perspective of a championship run. He will not be making those shots when it counts in the playoffs. he is slower & thus easier to close out on.


Can he be worse than Bibby & Arroyo? Just looking at the PG's available, you really gotta give him some sort of credit. Im not saying hes going to be a "good" defender but he should still be able to jump the passing lanes, that anticipation instinct on D never leaves.

The heat don't even need a good PG, what they truly lack is a post presence. once again i wouldn't bet my money on his ability to steal the ball in game 7 of the ECF.


You're right he'll get abused by Rose, Wall, Tyreke, etc but so does most PG's in the NBA. Its not even like he'd be forced to guard them when he'd have Wade & LeBron on the perimeter in help defense. With the way they were playing team defense last season, it'd be tough for Iverson to be singled out and exploited all game on D.

He'l get abused by Earl Watson, Jerryd Bayless, Toney Douglas, Jordan Farmar, Will Bynum, Keeyon Dooling, Jeff Teague, Kirk Hinrich etc. All of which are backup guards. let's not even get into the starting PG's that he has no business guarding. He has no size & reduced athleticism, he is useless on the defensive side of the floor.



Im not saying for them to use the MLE.

Im talking the Veterans Exception for a 1 year deal.

The article mentions that too.

With the guards out there as Free Agents he's the only one really who can handle PG or SG duties since Aaron Brooks is a longshot since hes a Restricted Free Agent.

You're acting like Iverson is deadly slow or something, he can still keep pace with most PG's in this league(including backups/3rd string) even at 36. He was at a whole nother level we hadnt seen until Rose/Wall arrived, I'm sure hes lost a step but you have to remember what kind of Elite step he had in the first place.

Did u watch any of his games when he came back to play for the Sixers in 2010? Absolutely abismal play. 32 min he avg 0.7stl, 13.9 points on 41% shooting. terrible #'s. his advanced stats are just as bad.

103 offensive rating to 114 defensive rating, 0.037 WS/48 while still using 1/4 of the teams plays while he's on the court.

I remember how elite he was & I remember watching him fall off, it happens. He isn't what he used to be. it's a waste of a roster space.

Corey
09-22-2011, 10:11 AM
He's the worst possible fit for the heat. At the point guard position they need someone that can run the offense, consistently hit an open 3, and play good defense. Iverson does none of that. Chalmers is a much, much better option for them.

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 11:12 AM
AI cant shot but a HOF coach in BROWN had him running baseline to baseline like a bat out of hell to the 3pt line to either 'shoot' the 3pt shot or jumper or attack? Answer this: why in the world put a player to not succeed when the coaches job is to put the player in best position to succeed? its amazing how good he could shoot but was alwayz double/tripled teamed and he was a 5'10 SHOOTING GUARD...only players i can recall off top running off screens are 'SHOOTERS' ala RAY ALLEN/RIP HAMILTON/R.MILLER/PEJA/KORVER....now im not saying AI is in they league far as deadly pin point shooting but if a coach is having him do the same as those type players then he must be able to shoot pretty damn good, and wat seperates Iverson from those shooters is he can attack the basket like a Jordan

Its funny how someone can lead the league in steals for 3 strait yrs and get called overrated but CP3 does it 1yr and hes all world defender

AI could easily play off the ball, ask yourself this but only if you play the game....is it easier to shoot a jumpshot/3shot with 2/3 guys on you or running at you or shooting a wide open J/3pt shot with JAMES/WADE drawing all the attention? something he never had for his first 10yrs in Philly and when he played his only full season with MELO he shot like 35pct from 3pt land, you guys on here are xcellent for debate

AIMelo=KillaDUO
09-22-2011, 11:14 AM
Miami would be nice. I'd like to see AI sign on any contendor.

Miami, NY, Boston, Chicago, etc... I just wanna see him play in the league again. I wanna see him go out the right way.

sep11ie
09-22-2011, 11:15 AM
The heat should sign Iverson, Curry, Steve Francis, Chris Webber, and maybe even Eddie Griffin.

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 11:20 AM
What is he gonna do against Wall,Heinrich etc at this stage? Well i recall Majerle having a good D game against Iverson and they acted like he checked that young Iverson, nah he just moved his feet and was taller and his team help D made it tough for Iverson, so you mean to tell me Iverson would get torched by backups and the couple young PG's but you forget to mention how good Heat team D is, and last time i checked thats what AI thrives in since RILEY/BROWN D schemes aint that diff. from one another

ManningToTyree
09-22-2011, 11:24 AM
I would hate to like someone on the Heat so no.

Heater4life
09-22-2011, 11:30 AM
No

/thread

Shmontaine
09-22-2011, 11:39 AM
WTF?? no way should the heat pick him up... AI is good for AI, not for anyone else... wait, check that, the heat should get him...

Jamiecballer
09-22-2011, 11:43 AM
absolutely not. they're better off with someone who knows how to play the role of facilitator, even if it's someone no better than a Steve Blake-ish caliber player...

Jamiecballer
09-22-2011, 11:49 AM
I'd love to see it. AI gets a ring!

Iverson wouldn't get a ring. He'd detract from any chance they won one, though. People seem to forget how much an ego and playing style like Iverson's requires teammates to sacrifice. When was Iverson most successful? When he was surrounded by a team full of hard-nosed but marginal talents in Philly.

iliketurtles24
09-22-2011, 11:59 AM
practice? we talking bout practice?

bazarov
09-22-2011, 12:02 PM
I'd love to see it. AI gets a ring!

Didn't we learn last year that rings aren't that easy to come by? Last season was served up on a platter for the Heat once the Lakers and Celtics (and Magic earlier) faded late in the season. And the Heat still couldn't get it done.

No offense to the Mavericks -- they really came on strong -- but last season there were no powerhouses. That might have been the Heat's easiest shot at a championship. They might still win one, but they'll have to get markedly better. AI doesn't do that for them.

smith&wesson
09-22-2011, 12:17 PM
I think iversonproved he could play on the same team as anthony. he averaged 7apg last season he played with melo.

Billups, iverson, tony douglas,
fields-iverson, shumpert, roger mason
anthony-walker
stat-jeffries
turiaf-harrellson

bazarov
09-22-2011, 12:32 PM
I think iversonproved he could play on the same team as anthony. he averaged 7apg last season he played with melo.

Billups, iverson, tony douglas,
fields-iverson, shumpert, roger mason
anthony-walker
stat-jeffries
turiaf-harrellson

Seven assists for a starting PG in the Western Conference really isn't that impressive. He led the league in minutes played that year, to boot. And that was four whole years ago.

nickdymez
09-22-2011, 12:41 PM
Yes, why not?

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 12:42 PM
JAMIECBALLER said AI's teammates had to sacrifice to play with him
My reply to that is what in the hell did MCKIE/SNOW/HUGHES/KUKOC/HILL/LYNCH/MUTOMBO/GEIGER/MCCULLOUGH/VAN HORN sacrifice?
BIG DOG/WEBBER/COLEMAN were all pretty damn good or highly touted at one point but when AI got them they were either done from major injury or major weight gain/passion lost and he got to play with those guys,what in the hell did they sacrifice for him? if anything he sacrificed himself for being the lone scorer..wats so comedy about this whole AI argument is that i always hear people say he had a Defensive squad to mask his shortcomings,but how in the world can it not have same impact on Off side of ball? And to top it off he led the league in steals per game 3yrs in a row and you know about his scoring titles right? he did both to highest level and he also put up over 30 and 7 when he ran PG for a couple yrs after SNOW left, thats whats so damn funny about all this, hes not a traditional PG but he avg more assists than BILLUPS/PARKER and last i checked they scoring PG's also but PSD and others will sware they are traditional PG's,so that goes to show you what level individually hes on

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 12:53 PM
But BAZAROV he was the starting Shooting Guard for Nuggs, CARTER/BOYKINS/BLAKE was starter when he got there so 7APG is showing you how dynamic he is..i sware some sports people, and of course it was 4yrs ago, now go ask yourself this, since when did a top 3 scorer(which he was in 2008 behind JAMES/BRYANT) get demoted to the bench very next yr? people act like Iverson took same 18/19 shots per game and avg 18ppg,now thats falling off.. but to take 7shots per half(14total in DETROIT) and avg 18 per is pretty much on par for the usage hes getting,people act like he was takin those same 22 shots per game in Sixerland and puttin up 18ppg(now thats fallin way off)...follow media every lie you'll bound to fall off a long cliff

Ask yourself this but its pertains to RIP(Iverson old Piston teammate)..did you see the way they did him this past season after he won a chip and was captain for Pistons for all these yrs right? they demoted him to bench after he took up for Iverson and said Iverson was not lying about how the team 'quit' on Iverson but the media flipped it and said Iverson quit on them(which he did leave after Coach told him if he dont come off bench the team will lay down on him)...so tell me all you PSD ball players and i dont care in any sport,but if your team told you to come off bench or they will quit on you...would you do like Iverson did and quit on them or stay around and touch the ball every 6/7 possessions like they did him or maybe not at all

So now you see why RIP was dealt with the way he was(benched,sound familiar to Iverson right?) for speaking out for Iverson and just like BROWN spoke out and you see they fired him very quickly after season shortly started

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 01:12 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/091001&sportCat=nba

A.I. was viewed as a team killer despite having a good two years with Denver and people were saying he lost a step despite putting up 26.4 ppg, 7.1 apg and 2.2 spg while shooting 46 percent and leading his Denver Nuggets team to 50 wins. It did not make sense to the smart basketball fans that know the game well and know A.I. well.

The Pistons wanted A.I. to sacrifice and he did just that. He took only 14 shots per game and played just 27 mpg. Iverson also said in his interview this past month that he was frustrated because he would sometimes touch the ball once every six possessions. I can imagine that being hard when you know you are better than every player on the court and are not just one of the greatest scorers ever but one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/280384-iverson-was-treated-badly-by-detroit-and-rip-hamilton-agrees

"M.C. lied to us a million times," Hamilton said of Curry. "He sat me and A.I. down one time and was like, 'I'm going to lean on both of you the whole year, just don't go to the media. Say you'll do whatever for the team and blah blah blah.' This was a week before he brought me off the bench. He lied. So I feel for what Allen said."

He added: "I think the person that we had didn't know how to take advantage of (our roster). Instead of taking advantage of it, he killed it."

gotoHcarolina52
09-22-2011, 01:16 PM
No. Let that tumor metastasize elsewhere.

TheNumber37
09-22-2011, 01:23 PM
It's the best fit for him, even though I love AI and hate the heat. Iverson plays his best when he's around talent - see his 2 all star mvps. I hope it happens, and ai becomes 6th man of the year. He'll basically do what payton did for the heat in 06, guaranteed to hit big shots.

llemon
09-22-2011, 01:25 PM
JAMIECBALLER said AI's teammates had to sacrifice to play with him
My reply to that is what in the hell did MCKIE/SNOW/HUGHES/KUKOC/HILL/LYNCH/MUTOMBO/GEIGER/MCCULLOUG sacrifice?

They had to sacrifice the right to take it easy on defense because they had to cover for AI not playing his man.

They had to hustle downcourt on offense only to quickly turn around and hustle back on defense because AI had chucked up some ridiculous shot before their offense got set up.

And they had to watch Iverson get preferential treatment from Larry Brown, or AI might have sulked and not played all-out.

llemon
09-22-2011, 01:27 PM
It's the best fit for him, even though I love AI and hate the heat. Iverson plays his best when he's around talent - see his 2 all star mvps. I hope it happens, and ai becomes 6th man of the year. He'll basically do what payton did for the heat in 06, guaranteed to hit big shots.

Can't argue AI was at his best in All-Star games. No defense played.

Gators123
09-22-2011, 01:28 PM
But BAZAROV he was the starting Shooting Guard for Nuggs, CARTER/BOYKINS/BLAKE was starter when he got there so 7APG is showing you how dynamic he is..i sware some sports people, and of course it was 4yrs ago, now go ask yourself this, since when did a top 3 scorer(which he was in 2008 behind JAMES/BRYANT) get demoted to the bench very next yr? people act like Iverson took same 18/19 shots per game and avg 18ppg,now thats falling off.. but to take 7shots per half(14total in DETROIT) and avg 18 per is pretty much on par for the usage hes getting,people act like he was takin those same 22 shots per game in Sixerland and puttin up 18ppg(now thats fallin way off)...follow media every lie you'll bound to fall off a long cliff

Ask yourself this but its pertains to RIP(Iverson old Piston teammate)..did you see the way they did him this past season after he won a chip and was captain for Pistons for all these yrs right? they demoted him to bench after he took up for Iverson and said Iverson was not lying about how the team 'quit' on Iverson but the media flipped it and said Iverson quit on them(which he did leave after Coach told him if he dont come off bench the team will lay down on him)...so tell me all you PSD ball players and i dont care in any sport,but if your team told you to come off bench or they will quit on you...would you do like Iverson did and quit on them or stay around and touch the ball every 6/7 possessions like they did him or maybe not at all

So now you see why RIP was dealt with the way he was(benched,sound familiar to Iverson right?) for speaking out for Iverson and just like BROWN spoke out and you see they fired him very quickly after season shortly started

:laugh2: The Pistons treat Rip great. How do you think he got his huge contract extension?

Rip getting benched last season had nothing to do with Iverson, it was because Rip is on the decline and he called the coach a failure in front of the whole team.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-hamiltonpistons022611

About a week prior to his banishment to the Detroit Pistons’ bench in January, Richard Hamilton(notes) berated coach John Kuester in a jarring and expletive-filled diatribe on the practice court, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

As stunned coaches and teammates watched, Hamilton bellowed at Kuester that he had been a failure in his two seasons in Detroit, blown the opportunity the franchise afforded him and was nothing more than a career assistant coach, sources said. Despite Hamilton yelling within inches of him, Kuester didn’t respond.
Pistons coach John Kuester has played Richard Hamilton in one game since Jan. 10.


Several of the team’s younger players were mortified watching it and privately told agents and associates they wished they had the courage to stand up, confront Hamilton and try to take control back from the disgruntled veteran. Nevertheless, Hamilton influences a powerful lobby in the Pistons’ locker room, including veteran leaders Tayshaun Prince(notes) and Ben Wallace(notes).

OC Knights #11
09-22-2011, 01:30 PM
Hey why not sign Michael Jordan, and Charles Barkley?

MR.TRIPDUB
09-22-2011, 01:52 PM
For his skillset, 36 is too old. His game is based on speed and athleticsm which he no longer have. Hes not a good shooter, hes not a great passer, hes a terrible defender even then, and hes most definitely not a leader. What has he got to offer the heat? Additional ego possibly bigger than LBJs?

The heat should be in it to win it for themselves first and should not be burdened by aging players with no significant use to them.

Geargo Wallace
09-22-2011, 01:53 PM
anyone else here not answer the poll because it's stupid?

beasted86
09-22-2011, 01:56 PM
Didn't we learn last year that rings aren't that easy to come by? Last season was served up on a platter for the Heat once the Lakers and Celtics (and Magic earlier) faded late in the season. And the Heat still couldn't get it done.

No offense to the Mavericks -- they really came on strong -- but last season there were no powerhouses. That might have been the Heat's easiest shot at a championship. They might still win one, but they'll have to get markedly better. AI doesn't do that for them.

Markedly better? Lmao.

Lebron played like trash, Haslem & Miller were ineffective due to injury, and the coach watched his team meltdown and lose a game, and with that said the Heat were 2 wins away from a title. Mere health, an effective Lebron, and a legit Center with the midlevel and this team will be favorites again coast to the Finals.

Anyway, on topic, with Eddie House and Norris Cole, Iverson is not needed.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Markedly better? Lmao.

Lebron played like trash, Haslem & Miller were ineffective due to injury, and the coach watched his team meltdown and lose a game, and with that said the Heat were 2 wins away from a title. Mere health, an effective Lebron, and a legit Center with the midlevel and this team will be favorites again coast to the Finals.

Anyway, on topic, with Eddie House and Norris Cole, Iverson is not needed.

Yeah, markedly better. You admitted that yourself: LeBron played like trash, Haslem and Miller were ineffective, no legit center ... And I'll add some for myself: weak bench, substandard PG play, guys who haven't figured out their roles yet ...

No need to take it as an insult. The Heat certainly can, and should, get better. And for every weakness, they have huge advantages, what with having two of the best 3-4 players and another All-Star on top of that. But where they sit right now, they'd need a major downslide the overall play of top teams to be considered anything more than just one of a handful of contenders. Last season turned out to be a relatively weak season after the powerhouses -- Boston and LA -- faded. The Heat's window is here and now, and so far it looks like they need a bit more.

Stack_NJNets
09-22-2011, 02:45 PM
Were talking about practice? Not even a game practice? Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice. Yes, if he goes to practice.
















P.S Practice

gotoHcarolina52
09-22-2011, 02:56 PM
Yeah, markedly better. You admitted that yourself: LeBron played like trash, Haslem and Miller were ineffective, no legit center ... And I'll add some for myself: weak bench, substandard PG play, guys who haven't figured out their roles yet ...

No need to take it as an insult. The Heat certainly can, and should, get better. And for every weakness, they have huge advantages, what with having two of the best 3-4 players and another All-Star on top of that. But where they sit right now, they'd need a major downslide the overall play of top teams to be considered anything more than just one of a handful of contenders. Last season turned out to be a relatively weak season after the powerhouses -- Boston and LA -- faded. The Heat's window is here and now, and so far it looks like they need a bit more.

The Heat wiped their *** with Boston and Dallas wiped their *** with the Lakers. These two "powerhouses" didn't fade, they were exposed and disposed of by superior teams.

Giants-49ers-Ws
09-22-2011, 02:57 PM
he'd be the one person i'm happy for if the heat won the title

Shmontaine
09-22-2011, 02:59 PM
Were talking about practice? Not even a game practice? Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice Practice. Yes, if he goes to practice.
















P.S Practice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I

KH12
09-22-2011, 03:07 PM
I voted yes, because I want to see them get worse.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 03:10 PM
The Heat wiped their *** with Boston and Dallas wiped their *** with the Lakers. These two "powerhouses" didn't fade, they were exposed and disposed of by superior teams.

Neither Boston nor LA was playing anywhere near the level of the several previous years. Seriously, the Lakers team that won back-to-back championships would have wiped the floor with Dallas and Miami last season.

Maybe Boston and LA have their better days behind them. And that's my point: this is and was the Heat's window. They'll need more, as we saw last year. Teams like Dallas will always be around. If you can't get over them, how can you expect to win in the years of a true powerhouse?

derekreed33
09-22-2011, 03:10 PM
It would be perfect. AI couldn't win in the finals either...

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Wats so funny is LLEMON says AI played his best in ASG's then why in the world did Philly org. not recognize this and filled up they roster with total opposite cuz im pretty sure he would have done well with a couple fellow AllStars on roster to go to war with him

And i was speaking in terms if actual 'bball' playing talent LLEMON, like heres an example for ya since you seem to know a little bit about bball ...LEBRON/WADE/BOSH came to together which right off top all 3 had to 'sacrifice' their touches/shots and BOSH was clearly affected most and 'sacrificied' his #1 option spot in Raptorville to ride 3rd wheel and found his niche just in time for Finals run..now if you cant understand that GEIGER/SNOW/MCKIE/HILL/LYNCH/M.JACKSON/K.THOMAS and a slew others who were mediocre NBA players at best all benefited of playing with him and getting multi yr deals,they didnt come into playing with him high paid players,they actually crippled the 76er payroll with overpaying for those mediocre style players, can you imagine SNOW/MCKIE getting combined $80million today like they did in 01? hell nah

So like i said what did they sacrifice besides team d or defense as you claim? and thats not a sacrifice,thats a committment and none of those guys were singular lock down defenders(besides LYNCH and he didnt even play in FINALS cuz of injury) cause obviously MUTOMBO benefited from camping in lane then when that 3sec rule came he became such a liability and HILL was clearly past his 1time allstar game with CAVS..

So who was a no1 scoring option from those guys that sacrificed their games and on what teams did they play for that played with Iverson in his first 8yrs? Im sure i'll be waiting a long while for that list cause i know GEIGER/MCKIE were never 'featured' options in a offense and neither was SNOW,but when they came and played with Iverson they put up 15 and 12ppg, all because of Iverson and the latter ppg won 6th man of yr,amazing

llemon
09-22-2011, 03:35 PM
Wats so funny is LLEMON says AI played his best in ASG's then why in the world did Philly org. not recognize this and filled up they roster with total opposite cuz im pretty sure he would have done well with a couple fellow AllStars on roster to go to war with him

Again, an Iverson fan completely misses the point.

You see, in basketball games that aren't All-Star games, coaches expect their players to play defense. That is what actually got a black hole like Iverson to the Finals. His teammates made up for AI's unwillingness to play defense by playing great defense.

And Iverson didn't want another all-star on the team (except for a guy like Deke) because then AI would have to share the ball when he didn't want to.

LayZbone
09-22-2011, 03:37 PM
he's not really a good fit.

29$JerZ
09-22-2011, 03:40 PM
The last thing Miami needs is a past him prime SG/PG

They need more clutch players who won't fall apart during the postseason and in turn leave more work for LeBron and Wade to deal with

Miami really should set their sights on a big man like Nene, Kaman or a SG like Anthony Parker before they look at another PG. With Wade an LBJ what purpose does a PG do?

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 04:53 PM
You keep talking about defense and i keep talking about offense and to me you need both but i would take off. options over def. options in every sport from NBA to NFL to MLB, so i dont know why you keep bringing up defense,he needed help offensively not defensively,they had a BROWN scheme,they needed a another scorer ..wat more do you expect a 5'10 guy to do when he is carrying entire off. load and still leader in steals(and dives to the floor,hustle plays),you expect him to play like a HOWARD/SHAQ and block shots and man the paint? he's not a 7footer tho he attacked the paint frequently and finished over many

he was a 5'10 SG who played the lanes like no other and played good onball D til he had to shoot 23x per game, who in the world wouldnt slack off? LLEMON come up with another argument besides not playing D,or at least admit he didnt have a SHAQ type or a KG type or a Mourning type big man to lean on,hell even Ratliff was a better fit for AI cause he was athletic and could run court well,not a slow footed sloth like Mutombo..you mix speed wit speed in sports ala Eagles

Iverson could have had a couple Allstars on his squad and dont give me that he wanted MUTOMBO crap cuz Stephen A confirmed that Iverson 'cried' in 98 draft when they didnt draft PIERCE(Top 3-5 player who dropped to 10th,76ers picked 8th) who would have relieved him and then AI would have 'sacrificed' his game cuz now he would have a guy who could go off for 30/40 on any give night, why in the hell is that so hard for you to digest, no matter how hard you may personally dislike the guy, but how could you not like a player who could shoot/drive to basket equally,tough as rusty ole nail and got more heart/toughness than every big man in the league and plays with no fear and brings it..and hes basically Nate Robinsons height...who cares every athlete from Magic who wouldnt play for nobody but Lakers on draft day to Shaq to Jordan(who choked Kerr in practice) to Kobe to Rodman and so on have done somethin to stir up the pot wit the coach/gm and some fans(Barkley), talk about his play on court and what he had to carry yr in and out

It didnt take him 11yrs to want to play with Melo and share the ball(top scoring duo in 08), all it took them was to draft TMAC in 97 and Pierce or Nowitzki in 98..there you have it,a dominant big 3

Bruno
09-22-2011, 05:00 PM
I just wanna see him play in the league again. I wanna see him go out the right way.

Me too. dude's gotta leave his ego at the door though.

SteBO
09-22-2011, 05:22 PM
The last thing Miami needs is a past him prime SG/PG

They need more clutch players who won't fall apart during the postseason and in turn leave more work for LeBron and Wade to deal with

Miami really should set their sights on a big man like Nene, Kaman or a SG like Anthony Parker before they look at another PG. With Wade an LBJ what purpose does a PG do?
This is a valid point, but I've cringed at the aspect of LeBron playing more PG. In Cleveland, he didn't have much choice based on what was around him. Remember, guys like Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Jamison, etc....were guys brought in to coincide specifically with LeBron's skillsets. The structure of the Heats' roster entering last season was a little different. LeBron was a whole hell of alot better with us playing off-the-ball which is why seeing Chalmers blossom the way he did in the playoffs put a smile on my face. When LeBron plays the point, he can be a great facilitator but the huge drawback is his agressivness on offense. He gets passive alot when he's forced into playing PG and the fact that we have Wade makes him even more passive because he knows Dwyane can score the ball at will.

smith&wesson
09-22-2011, 05:35 PM
Seven assists for a starting PG in the Western Conference really isn't that impressive. He led the league in minutes played that year, to boot. And that was four whole years ago.

first off every one knows iverson plays more like a shooting gaurd then a pg. who doesnt know that ?

2ndly my point was that he had chemistry with melo they already proved they can co-exist. new york just seems like a better fit for iverson as he wouldnt have to be the pg. billups would be the pg. iverson could just be a spark off the bench and stick to scoring. which is what he does best.

just a thought. and its opinionated.

SteBO
09-22-2011, 05:37 PM
first off every one knows iverson plays more like a shooting gaurd then a pg. who doesnt know that ?

2ndly my point was that he had chemistry with melo they already proved they can co-exist. new york just seems like a better fit for iverson as he wouldnt have to be the pg. billups would be the pg. iverson could just be a spark off the bench and stick to scoring. which is what he does best.

just a thought. and its opinionated.
I agree with you here actually. I think playing in a D'antoni system can do wonders for AI personally. The AI-Melo era in Denver was such a blur to me, I hardly remember what happened there.

llemon
09-22-2011, 05:50 PM
I agree with you here actually. I think playing in a D'antoni system can do wonders for AI personally. The AI-Melo era in Denver was such a blur to me, I hardly remember what happened there.

Let me jog your memory.

Two 1st rd playoff exits (AI actually outscored 'Melo in the '07-'08 season. I'm sure 'Melo was thrilled with that), followed by AI being traded as an expiring contract, and then complaining about coming off the bench for Pistons.

SeoulBeatz
09-22-2011, 06:07 PM
I think this mix pretty much sums up what A.I has left in the tank. (his 2010 season highlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgUj6JfnQn0

He's definitely lost a step, but he still had a decent knack for scoring and was a much better distributor than his first go round with the sixers.

He shot 45% from the field and played the role of a pass first combo guard.

Obviously he can't contribute much on the defensive end, but neither can Mike Bibby so I think A.I could spot him for a few minutes here and there.

llemon
09-22-2011, 06:19 PM
I think this mix pretty much sums up what A.I has left in the tank. (his 2010 season highlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgUj6JfnQn0

He's definitely lost a step, but he still had a decent knack for scoring and was a much better distributor than his first go round with the sixers.

He shot 45% from the field and played the role of a pass first combo guard.

Obviously he can't contribute much on the defensive end, but neither can Mike Bibby so I think A.I could spot him for a few minutes here and there.

Hey, the last few years have certainly been a humbling experience for Iverson, so it is possible that AI may be willing to swallow some of his enormous ego, stop whining about coming off the bench, and do what will give his team its best chance of winning.

If he can do all those things, he might be able to contribute to the Heat.

But Heat's greatest needs are at PG and Center.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 06:23 PM
I think this mix pretty much sums up what A.I has left in the tank. (his 2010 season highlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgUj6JfnQn0

He's definitely lost a step, but he still had a decent knack for scoring and was a much better distributor than his first go round with the sixers.

He shot 45% from the field and played the role of a pass first combo guard.

Obviously he can't contribute much on the defensive end, but neither can Mike Bibby so I think A.I could spot him for a few minutes here and there.

That wasnt that bad considering he wasnt in 100% shape or knew the system there after "retiring".

In terms of everybody else, why are you talking about Iverson's game as if hes stuck in 2001? Why the hell would he come to Miami and take 25 shots per game? Seriously? :facepalm:

Fact of the matter is if he is willing to play any role to help a winning team as hes claimed, you're kidding yourself to think hes going to ego-trip and be a team cancer. The whole reason hes making a comeback is becuase that tenure in Turkey without NBA interest brought him some clarity on his career.

He could've easily took his show to China like Marbury and average 30 PPG without caring about ever playing in the NBA again. Instead, hes training to take a reduced role just to be back in the NBA. How many All-Time great players have ever sacrificed their ego to be a bench player? Not many.

bazarov
09-22-2011, 06:25 PM
first off every one knows iverson plays more like a shooting gaurd then a pg. who doesnt know that ?

2ndly my point was that he had chemistry with melo they already proved they can co-exist. new york just seems like a better fit for iverson as he wouldnt have to be the pg. billups would be the pg. iverson could just be a spark off the bench and stick to scoring. which is what he does best.

just a thought. and its opinionated.

His game is arguably better suited for a 2, but he was still playing the point. You can't play 42 minutes of point each night and not get a handful of assists. It's simply an incident of touching the ball more than anyone else.

Iverson might fit best in NY, I agree. But, like you said, he'd be better suited for volume scoring off the bench. That's why the stat about his assists four years ago confused me.

llemon
09-22-2011, 06:26 PM
That wasnt that bad considering he wasnt in 100% shape or knew the system there after "retiring".

In terms of everybody else, why are you talking about Iverson's game as if hes stuck in 2001? Why the hell would he come to Miami and take 25 shots per game? Seriously? :facepalm:

Fact of the matter is if he is willing to play any role to help a winning team as hes claimed, you're kidding yourself to think hes going to ego-trip and be a team cancer. The whole reason hes making a comeback is becuase that tenure in Turkey without NBA interest brought him some clarity on his career.

He could've easily took his show to China like Marbury and average 30 PPG without caring about ever playing in the NBA again. Instead, hes training to take a reduced role just to be back in the NBA. How many All-Time great players have ever sacrificed their ego to be a bench player? Not many.

"If he is willing to play any role". That is the million dollar (literally) question.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 06:31 PM
Hey, the last few years have certainly been a humbling experience for Iverson, so it is possible that AI may be willing to swallow some of his enormous ego, stop whining about coming off the bench, and do what will give his team its best chance of winning.

If he can do all those things, he might be able to contribute to the Heat.

But Heat's greatest needs are at PG and Center.

Iverson can play PG. I dont think anybody is talking about giving him the starting job and letting him play 30+ MPG at PG.

Chalmers would get the majority of minutes at PG and likely start.

But, could Iverson not be effective coming off the bench playing maybe 10-15 MPG on average at the PG position? I think so.

What happens when Chalmers is struggling in a game or in a slump like he was to start 1/3 of last season? Who else do you go to this year? A rookie in Norris Cole? Eddie House? At least we know what Iverson brings to the table and has consistency in his game. Thats why I brought him up because there really isnt any veteran PG's available out there who are any better. Not unless they want to dig up Carlos Arroyo or Mike Bibby knowing both arent effective.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 06:34 PM
"If he is willing to play any role". That is the million dollar (literally) question.



On life outside the NBA: "Itís just hard knowing that I went through a whole NBA season and didnít play when I know how much I can play. Iíll play for a team in any capacity just to get back out there doing what I love to do."

On whether or not he'll get an offer from an NBA team: "[Deep breath] I donít know. Weíre going to work hard at it, but like I said, if it doesnít happen, I promise you I wonít sit home on my ***. I wonít do that. Iíll play for somebody."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29958/now-ready-to-be-a-role-player-allen-iverson

Im willing to bet hes serious about it.

Fresno
09-22-2011, 06:42 PM
His game is arguably better suited for a 2, but he was still playing the point. You can't play 42 minutes of point each night and not get a handful of assists. It's simply an incident of touching the ball more than anyone else.

Iverson might fit best in NY, I agree. But, like you said, he'd be better suited for volume scoring off the bench. That's why the stat about his assists four years ago confused me.

Nobody ever viewed him as a true PG, however his passing ability/court vision was still great. Its why Philadelphia had no problem letting him play PG despite needing to be their sole scorer. A concept that hadnt been seen in the NBA to that extent since Pistol Pete. Just like for both guys them trying to do too much led to a lot of turnovers, but it also led to many amazing passes that few NBA players can make.

If he can average 2 APG off the bench thats better than what Bibby was giving the Heat last season as a starter in the Playoffs. :laugh:

smith&wesson
09-22-2011, 06:44 PM
His game is arguably better suited for a 2, but he was still playing the point. You can't play 42 minutes of point each night and not get a handful of assists. It's simply an incident of touching the ball more than anyone else.

Iverson might fit best in NY, I agree. But, like you said, he'd be better suited for volume scoring off the bench. That's why the stat about his assists four years ago confused me.

fair enough. my point was he had one of his best seasons as a passer playing along side melo. 7 apg for most gaurds is not impressive. for iverson to play with melo and average 7 a game while both of them still averaged well over 20 ppg suggests that they could play well together.

in either scenerio iverson would have to come off the bench as a scorer. at his age he cant play 40 mins and even if he did he wouldnt have good efficiency. 15-20 mins off the bench as a scorer could work on either team but he wants the ball in his hands which is somthing neither team can afford. he has to be willing to play off the ball imo because both teams have better playmakers and better passers.

Gators123
09-22-2011, 06:45 PM
The Heat would be much better off signing T-Mac than Iverson.

llemon
09-22-2011, 06:46 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/29958/now-ready-to-be-a-role-player-allen-iverson

Im willing to bet hes serious about it.

Then you should see what the Vegas line is on AI being serious about it.

I'm sure they'd be more than willing to take your bet.

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Hey PSD is morphing into a very poor mans ESPN

LLEMON said he 'had two 1st rd exits and got traded for xpiring contract
and ''complained' about having to come off bench

But not for 1sec did ESPN-LLEMON tell the whole story to the whole Piston debacle, not one time did ESPN-LLEMON mention that Chicken Curry lied to him and told him he wouldnt bring him off the bench and then a wk later he's askin him to do it

Also ESPN-LLEMON forgets to mention that in all of any amatuer or major league sport that you never ever 'lay down' or 'quit' on your team..so when Iverson caught wind of that from Chicken Curry he was ready to beat the **** out of all the ***** *** players who cried when Billups got traded and said they would 'not play' if Iverson didnt come off bench

yea grown *** men who make multi millions is crying over a 'guy' being traded and then kill the career of the superior player and switch up the story to share with the fickle minded masses, and it said 'IVERSON TAKES HIS BALL AND GOES HOME' and he did but it should have said 'PISTONS TELL AI BENCH IT OR WE QUIT then follow with that 'IVERSON TAKES BALL' quote, got to give both sides of a story to figure out how a top 3 scorer in 2008(how was Melo upset when he was 4th right behind a 4time scoring legend?) got relegated to bench, a top 3 scorer and he lost a 3steps in 6 months that fast but was doing 'putback dunks' in Pistonland in 09/10 season in games? pure comedy cuz i've never seen the 'media' make a guy come off the bench then have the watered down masses believe that a top 3 scorer not named Ginobili/Terry/Ricky Pierce/Mchale or any top known 6th man,should come off bench cuz they said so but they forgot to tell you that Dumars/Curry said they were trading Iverson to replace Billups as ''starter/leader'', but hey i guess Stuckey is a 3 time all star since then or maybe im wrong? so big ups to Dumars and to Curry(how did he get fired after 1 season if it was Iversons fault?)..

I can tell most you guys never played sports or never been around a freak athlete, how can anybody be 36 and play like they 26? but i'll tell you this go get any of your fav players in any sport and at 33yrs of age 12yrs in let me see his numbers at that age...and i dont care what sport or what player, of any era(JORDAN is only one who comes to mind in NBA)

Thats what makes Iverson special, right before he had to leave Sixers in his final stop he was 'fast', just not 'superfast' no more but how can a guy be fast at 33/34yrs old? and he was working himself back into shape right at ASG, then got sent home again for good

Also when you first step into the NBA and your only weakness is being 'turnover prone' then that only means to me that your super damn good and they just nitpickin,thats what they said bout that IVERSON guy when he came in league, didnt need to develop a J/3PT SHOT like all the ROSE/WESTBROOK/WALL's of the world,he had it as a Junior in High school and never looked back,wat a super talent/athlete with the super skill to match..Vegas will take any bet for that matter,they run $$ in sports

llemon
09-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Hey PSD is morphing into a very poor mans ESPN

LLEMON said he 'had two 1st rd exits and got traded for xpiring contract
and ''complained' about having to come off bench

But not for 1sec did ESPN-LLEMON tell the whole story to the whole Piston debacle, not one time did ESPN-LLEMON mention that Chicken Curry lied to him and told him he wouldnt bring him off the bench and then a wk later he's askin him to do it

Also ESPN-LLEMON forgets to mention that in all of any amatuer or major league sport that you never ever 'lay down' or 'quit' on your team..so when Iverson caught wind of that from Chicken Curry he was ready to beat the **** out of all the ***** *** players who cried when Billups got traded and said they would 'not play' if Iverson didnt come off bench

yea grown *** men who make multi millions is crying over a 'guy' being traded and then kill the career of the superior player and switch up the story to share with the fickle minded masses, and it said 'IVERSON TAKES HIS BALL AND GOES HOME' and he did but it should have said 'PISTONS TELL AI BENCH IT OR WE QUIT then follow with that 'IVERSON TAKES BALL' quote, got to give both sides of a story to figure out how a top 3 scorer in 2008(how was Melo upset when he was 4th right behind a 4time scoring legend?) got relegated to bench, a top 3 scorer and he lost a 3steps in 6 months that fast but was doing 'putback dunks' in Pistonland in 09/10 season in games? pure comedy

I can tell most you guys never played sports or never been around a freak athlete, how can anybody be 36 and play like they 26? but i'll tell you this go get any of your fav players in any sport and at 33yrs of age 12yrs in let me see his numbers at that age...and i dont care what sport or what player, of any era(JORDAN is only one who comes to mind in NBA)

Thats what makes Iverson special, right before he had to leave Sixers in his final stop he was 'fast', just not 'superfast' no more...and he was working himself back into shape right at ASG, then got sent home again for good

Also when you first step into the NBA and your only weakness is being 'turnover prone' then that only means to me that your super damn good and they just nitpickin,thats what they said bout that IVERSON guy when he came in league, didnt need to develop a J/3PT SHOT like all the ROSE/WESTBROOK/WALL's of the world,he had it as a Junior in High school and never looked back,wat a super talent/athlete with the super skill to match

Read your own response, and then try to figure out why I would NEVER want the team that I root for to bring in AI as a player.

Eagles710
09-22-2011, 07:13 PM
Not too many Smart People In this Forum? I agree Iverson Is OLD 100% Agreed
But Do You people think he actually forgot how to dribble? Or Score a Layup? Or get Fouled at the rim like Almost HALF his points were scored in a game?..... I HATE THE HEAT ALOT! but truth is Iverson would bring alot of energy and it would be a good signing, i Hope He comes Back to the 76ers We suck anyway so it really cant hurt to have him on our team just to watch him play :)

Hustlenomics
09-22-2011, 08:04 PM
clearly none of you guys see how he played his last season with Philly

He would absolutely destroy any chemistry that was hardly there and just create to much drama in the locker room. He would want better money than Lebron anyways and it just wouldn't happen.

where does this crap come from? you guys are brainwashed by the media

Hustlenomics
09-22-2011, 08:18 PM
For his skillset, 36 is too old. His game is based on speed and athleticsm which he no longer have. Hes not a good shooter, hes not a great passer, hes a terrible defender even then, and hes most definitely not a leader. What has he got to offer the heat? Additional ego possibly bigger than LBJs?

The heat should be in it to win it for themselves first and should not be burdened by aging players with no significant use to them.

Which player have you guys been watching? now you guys are just making things up about him

OGMarkWahlberg
09-22-2011, 08:38 PM
I say sign him, what do you have to lose? very low risk, high reward for them. Worse comes to worse you wasted the vet min on him, their roster depth is pathetic anyways why not take a chance. When motivated nobody plays harder than AI did in his prime (maybe KG, close tho)

3RDASYSTEM
09-22-2011, 10:19 PM
Jus read my own response and what i got out of it was a hell of a ball player and a guy who had more balls to walk away from a team that the media didnt dare say they 'quit' on him first

Hey LLEMON answer this ? if some people(good amount) at your neighborhood park/gym told you that either leave and go home or they aint playing no ball today cuz of you, how would you react? not making excuses cause what im saying is very very well documented, i think i posted links in earlier posts so it wont hurt to read a little link,its fundamental

And quit with the media filled stories about players not wanting to play with him, that was just another attempt by NBA to blackball him since they did it for his crossover and even his ankle braces to even the SLAM mag cover his rookie yr that he wasnt on but every other rookie was and he was no1 overall pick, i'd listen to BROWN/MCKIE/SNOW quotes and believe them over any media filled 'secret' source

aint no NBA player or athlete for that matter a perfect angel,so its like when people start bringing up like his head coach probs and try to use those to diminish what he did on court,i'll just always recall JORDAN choking KERR in practice and FAVRE destroying his teams chemistry previous 3-4yrs and Spree choking PJ and many many other athlete incidents with coach/management/teammates

LEBRON had AI poster on his wall growing up so that'll make it that much easier to play with and why the hell you think WADE rock that Heat #3? plus they played on Olympic/AllStar teams together,respect is there and its mutual,present Legend to future Legends..he'd bring that mental focus/toughness to that RILEY regime and they would dominate

Its funny once you get both sides of it and see that they 'quit' on him or 'layed down' and wouldnt play with 'IVERSON'..then ESPN reports that 'AI' did that to them,its kind of like a foul or penalty flag in NBA/NFL, the refs(ESPN/media) only saw the retaliation(IVERSON) and not the initiator(Dumars/Curry) and the retaliation always get the foul/flag..but at least i know who is who and what is what

IVERSON is like the 2PAC/Dicaprio of NBA, PAC sold 75 million records and never won a GRAMMY and Dicaprio aint never won a Oscar but you know he should have for Titanic and prob a couple others, so IVERSON has everything individually you can pretty much accomplish with a NBA League MVP/ASG MVP/Scoring champ/Steals title and the cherry would be a 'RING',PAC a GRAMMY,Dicaprio an OSCAR..but to me those dont make your body of work any more 'elite',the work is there, 'RINGS' are media driven hype, the first game of season aint no different than the 'FINALS' game...jus way more way more media/fan 'HYPE' cause last i checked you play to win rather its the 1st game of season or a 'FINALS' game,am i right or wrong?

AI
09-23-2011, 01:03 AM
Yes, I'm dying to see The Answer back in the NBA :drool:

beasted86
09-23-2011, 02:17 AM
Yeah, markedly better. You admitted that yourself: LeBron played like trash, Haslem and Miller were ineffective, no legit center ... And I'll add some for myself: weak bench, substandard PG play, guys who haven't figured out their roles yet ...

No need to take it as an insult. The Heat certainly can, and should, get better. And for every weakness, they have huge advantages, what with having two of the best 3-4 players and another All-Star on top of that. But where they sit right now, they'd need a major downslide the overall play of top teams to be considered anything more than just one of a handful of contenders. Last season turned out to be a relatively weak season after the powerhouses -- Boston and LA -- faded. The Heat's window is here and now, and so far it looks like they need a bit more.
So if all of that went wrong, and the team supposedly has all of these holes in it, how did they end up with the 2nd best record in the East, 3rd best overall, and get to the Finals with a 12-3 record through 3 rounds?

More importantly directly in relation to your comment.... forget about adding anyone else, just with another year of added chemistry and improved health, how "markedly better" do other teams have to get to get past the Heat if they did everything wrong and got within 2 wins of a title?

How can you say in one sentence they have all of these problems, then in another sentence say they need a major downturn in other teams that they've already beaten with all the problems they had?

Backwards logic?

SeoulBeatz
09-23-2011, 02:40 AM
He would absolutely destroy any chemistry that was hardly there and just create to much drama in the locker room. He would want better money than Lebron anyways and it just wouldn't happen.

jesus really? gotta repost just to clear the ignorance....

I think this mix pretty much sums up what A.I has left in the tank. (his 2010 season highlights)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgUj6JfnQn0

He's definitely lost a step, but he still had a decent knack for scoring and was a much better distributor than his first go round with the sixers.

He shot 45% from the field and played the role of a pass first combo guard.

Obviously he can't contribute much on the defensive end, but neither can Mike Bibby so I think A.I could spot him for a few minutes here and there.

Gators123
09-23-2011, 02:50 AM
^ He was 34 then, hes 36 now.

sventhedog
09-23-2011, 03:49 AM
yes. another clown is just what miami needs.

BlinkManJan02
09-23-2011, 03:55 AM
I would like to see Iverson playing in the NBA again.

bazarov
09-23-2011, 10:19 AM
So if all of that went wrong, and the team supposedly has all of these holes in it, how did they end up with the 2nd best record in the East, 3rd best overall, and get to the Finals with a 12-3 record through 3 rounds?

More importantly directly in relation to your comment.... forget about adding anyone else, just with another year of added chemistry and improved health, how "markedly better" do other teams have to get to get past the Heat if they did everything wrong and got within 2 wins of a title?

How can you say in one sentence they have all of these problems, then in another sentence say they need a major downturn in other teams that they've already beaten with all the problems they had?

Backwards logic?

I explained this. You know the answer. The Heat have two of the top 3-4 players in the league and another All-Star on top of that. That's a pretty damn good start to a team. LeBron took the Cavaliers to 130 wins in two seasons with what everybody called a terrible supporting cast. Add Wade and Bosh in there and take away some of the chemistry and a few role players and it ain't hard to see how the Heat could accomplish so much.

But, as I said and as last year's Heat and those Cavs teams proved, more is needed. The Heat are a very good team, but there's no reason to think they will win a championship unless they get better. Teams like the Mavs are there every year, often 2-3 of them. Another year of Wade, LeBron, and Bosh together should help a lot. A few solid role players would go a long way as well. That might be enough, but the Heat sure as hell better do it now. That's my point. They better win now before the Lakers reload with Howard or CP3, before the Bulls find another All-Star, before (if) the Thunder put it all together. This is their window, and they're already 0-1.


The league ended up being relatively weak by the end of last season. Do you disagree? The Mavs played well enough to earn some respect, but we hadn't seen that weak of a champion in a long time. The competition was great -- don't get me wrong -- but there wasn't a powerhouse like LA, Boston, SA, even Detroit for a stretch there. And the Heat still didn't pull it off, which tells me they've got a ways to go.

Rocketsfan85
09-23-2011, 10:35 AM
He's a better option than chalmbers IMO

beasted86
09-23-2011, 01:30 PM
The league ended up being relatively weak by the end of last season. Do you disagree? The Mavs played well enough to earn some respect, but we hadn't seen that weak of a champion in a long time. The competition was great -- don't get me wrong -- but there wasn't a powerhouse like LA, Boston, SA, even Detroit for a stretch there. And the Heat still didn't pull it off, which tells me they've got a ways to go.

Yes, I definitely disagree.

The Lakers were the favorites for very good reason. Let's not forget the winning streak they ended the year with after the all-star break. Funny how one series can diminish fans' perception this quickly. The Lakers having a healthy Bynum for a playoff run in a long time, adding Blake and Barnes as well as Odom having a 6th man worthy season they were the clear "powerhouse" you are talking about. It just proved how good the Mavs really are and how versatile their team was that they were able to sweep them.

The Bulls that you say the Heat supposedly need to worry about because our window is closing to continue beating them just lost 4-1. So I'm not sure where you are reaching on how fast they can get better enough to compensate for the difference that's already there... The Celtics slow decline was always inevitable... Thunder put it together? You really think what the Thunder have right now will ever develop better enough to surpass the Heat's core in the next 4 years? Durant, Westbrook, and Harden will become better than LeBron, Wade, and Bosh within 4 years? Again, are we reaching past realistic scenarios just to try and make a point? As far as LA reloading, who's championship window do you think would be longer in 2012-2013... Howard 26, Pau 32, Kobe Bryant 34, or Wade 31, LeBron 27, Bosh 28?

The basis for your comment seems far fetched as the Heat who are already EC champions will be in the top 4 team discussion for the next 4 years, and while you agree the team can only get better, you make it sound as if while other teams add pieces the Heat can only sit on their hands. Yes, the Heat have 3 guys making double digit salary, but how does that differ from the Bulls who have 3 already making $12M or more: Deng, Boozer, Noah, and Rose is due an extension this coming season where he will get the max of $14M+... yet you propose they can add another all-star while the Heat add what? 35yr old veteran minimum guys only? How realistic are you being? Where are you going exactly?

My whole point is any team that's pretty much almost fact before it even happens a top 4 team for the next 4 years surely does not need to get 'markedly better' to beat anyone.

ink
09-23-2011, 01:40 PM
Worst possible team for him to be on. All you have to do is look at the weakest period of ball for Team USA at the World Championships and Olympics. They were the years with AI on the team. Not because he was a cancer or any of that nonsense, but because his game depends on dominance. Well, the Heat already have two players whose game depends on dominance. Not a chance that AI would fit on the Heat.

3RDASYSTEM
09-23-2011, 01:45 PM
BEASTED86 these guys have no clue that they reached the FINALS in very first yr under RILEY/WADE/JAMES regime ,so by just looking at CELTS old BIG 3 when they assembled where they could have barring those injuries to KG/PERK/RONDO could have possibly 4peated and they were older than LAKERS core who is older than HEAT core...so to me in the next 4yrs 3FINALS is damn near booked barring horrific/naggin injuries..getting a quality veteran like a IVERSON or so would just bring xtra hunger/drive, something i feel they lacked after that CELTS series

ink
09-23-2011, 01:45 PM
My whole point is any team that's pretty much almost fact before it even happens a top 4 team for the next 4 years surely does not need to get 'markedly better' to beat anyone.

I don't think the Heat have that far to go at all. And the answer isn't adding another ball dominant player. Their needs are obviously in the supporting cast and in the challenge of having Wade and Lebron work most effectively together. The challenge is that they have too many strong perimeter players so the solution is NOT going to be to add one more. They need strength inside. That's why I've always been skeptical about building teams around a superstar 2/3 duo (Pippen/Jordan playing in a triangle offense notwithstanding).

beasted86
09-23-2011, 01:58 PM
I don't think the Heat have that far to go at all. And the answer isn't adding another ball dominant player. Their needs are obviously in the supporting cast and in the challenge of having Wade and Lebron work most effectively together. The challenge is that they have too many strong perimeter players so the solution is NOT going to be to add one more. They need strength inside. That's why I've always been skeptical about building teams around a superstar 2/3 duo (Pippen/Jordan playing in a triangle offense notwithstanding).

I agree.

I think if we add a quality rebounder, defender, and finisher at the rim like Dalembert for the MLE, and get a healthy season out of Haslem, a front court rotation of Bosh, Dalembert, and Haslem is a good trio.

mightybosstone
09-23-2011, 01:59 PM
I like him as an energy sixth man off the bench who can play a little combo guard. I definitely wouldn't him to be my starting PG, but if Bibby and House can have a role on that team with their defensive issues, than AI could certainly play a role. And I don't think his defense is nearly as big of a problem with Miami's unbelievable help defense.

But, even if this were to happen, I don't see it solving Miami's problems. They completely lack frontcourt depth, and while I like Anthony as a defensive big, he should be coming off the bench, not starting at center. Also, they need to start Chalmers at PG. He's inconsistent, but his defense and occasional big shot making easily trump anything that Bibby provided in those playoffs....

llemon
09-23-2011, 02:00 PM
I would like to see Iverson playing in the NBA again.

Me too. I look forward to seeing him embarrass himself.

SteBO
09-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Me too. I look forward to seeing him embarrass himself.
:laugh2: You just can't stand AI, can you?

jrm2054
09-23-2011, 02:13 PM
No i think he is done

llemon
09-23-2011, 02:29 PM
:laugh2: You just can't stand AI, can you?

His fans have made me dislike him.

3mikee_
09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Another guy who can't function without the ball?

PinnacleFlash
09-23-2011, 03:17 PM
Another guy who can't function without the ball?

:facepalm:

Iverson and Wade can move without the ball.

YungDaSensai
09-23-2011, 03:34 PM
I'd love to see AI on the Heat.... i believe, he'll have an impact coming off the bench. He doesn't necessarily have to go to Miami, just wish he could get another shot a championship.

Hawkeye15
09-23-2011, 03:52 PM
I don't think it helps Miami at all, unless they attempt to run him at PG some (in which case he will get killed defensively), and they put a stipulation in his contract that he can only shoot 10 times a game

beasted86
09-23-2011, 07:33 PM
Call me over optimistic, but I'm pretty certain that Norris Cole is better than a 36yr old Iverson.

I wanted to give him a shot last season over Arroyo, but not this year after getting Cole.

MJ-BULLS
09-23-2011, 07:33 PM
AI is not going to Miami.

Evolution23
09-23-2011, 07:38 PM
I don't think it helps Miami at all, unless they attempt to run him at PG some (in which case he will get killed defensively), and they put a stipulation in his contract that he can only shoot 10 times a game

Iverson barely shot the ball when he returned to Philly and he played like a PG should. You must be thinking of the old Iverson that took a lot of shots.

Hustlenomics
09-23-2011, 08:03 PM
^ All of these people making things up about Iverson hasn't watched his last season with Philly, so their opinion doesn't matter

Fresno
09-23-2011, 11:28 PM
^ All of these people making things up about Iverson hasn't watched his last season with Philly, so their opinion doesn't matter

This.

I mean seriously a 36 year old Iverson's "game" revolves around dominance of the ball? As if hes even that great today.

Ink, you're 10 years late on that one.

Most of the opinions on how he'd fit off the bench are 10 years late.

ink
09-24-2011, 12:36 AM
This.

I mean seriously a 36 year old Iverson's "game" revolves around dominance of the ball? As if hes even that great today.

Ink, you're 10 years late on that one.

Most of the opinions on how he'd fit off the bench are 10 years late.

It was only a couple of years ago that he balked at taking a role in Detroit, so, sorry, the last we saw of AI was not really that different from the AI we've all gotten to know. Tough to teach an old dog ...

And the point of the thread is whether he'd help the Heat. I can't see how. Scoring is not really their problem. But an inside game definitely is. Tell me exactly how AI will help them inside.

Hustlenomics
09-24-2011, 12:44 AM
^ Don't comment on AI's game when you didn't watch him last with Philly. And I'm sure the Heat could have used someone else when Lebron had 2 points in the fourth quarter that one game

ink
09-24-2011, 02:46 AM
^ Don't comment on AI's game when you didn't watch him last with Philly. And I'm sure the Heat could have used someone else when Lebron had 2 points in the fourth quarter that one game

Again, that was an aberration. Scoring is not a problem for the Heat. Everything stems from D and the Heat need role players who can play D, rebound and create fast breaks. They do not need a sixth man or a PG who struggles to distribute the ball, or who briefly showed in his last stint with PHI that he could distribute. btw, 4.1 APG over a small sample size of 25 games does not establish anything positive about distribution abilities. The Heat don't need scoring, they don't need more stars, they need a solid supporting cast.

gwrighter
09-24-2011, 02:47 AM
^ Don't comment on AI's game when you didn't watch him last with Philly. And I'm sure the Heat could have used someone else when Lebron had 2 points in the fourth quarter that one game

If you are going to let a 36 year old AI jack up shots in a finals elimination game you are an AI homer. Might as well sub in Juwan Howard and Iso him in the post against Chandler. cuz that's how effective Iverson is going to be in the finals at this stage of his career.

MR.TRIPDUB
09-24-2011, 03:13 AM
It is more likely that the Heat help AI win a ring than AI helping them. Why the hell should they do that, they dont owe him anything. Its not like yhey need more crowd drawers. Lebron didnt come to south beach to get an additional load of having to provide help defense for his defensive deficiencies. The big 3 came together to win it for themselves.

Even if they did sign him, hes not gonnabe a sixth man like these ai fans are saying. He probably will be the 8-9 man off the bench. And please stop bringing up his last season with sixers, the circumstances are so much different. First that was two years ago, second he was starting and last he is treated like god in Philly. Any player would be happy with that situation.

My other point is that most older players whos still in the league have something younger players dont to An extent.

Nash - great passr, great shooter
Kidd - great paser, defense, savvy
Shaq- big body, inside scoring
Hill - still a very good sf
Ben - defense, rebounding

There are more but you get whT im saying. One more thing older players have is leadership, and stay just to be mentor or being groomed as a coach.

What will AI give? Shooting? Better than house, i dont think so. Passing, not really his strong suit especially if your not starting. Playmaking, probably but not with miamis players. Veteran leadership? Yeah right.

UPRock
09-24-2011, 03:24 AM
No, that would be bad. They need a good center to move Anthony to a Role Player position, he's a sparkplug from the bench.

Hustlenomics
09-24-2011, 11:17 AM
that's how I know you guys didn't watch him in Philly, because he was distributing the ball like 80% of the time and only took open jumpers he was hitting. Philly didn't have shooters like that so of course his assists weren't rocket high
And the guy that compared AI To Juwan Howard, log off

thenetslegend
09-24-2011, 11:24 AM
iverson would not be a good fit for the heat, he is done in the nba anyway. they are better off with the PG's the have imo.

Sadds The Gr8
09-24-2011, 11:26 AM
i hope they sign him to a long 5 year max so he can ruin the locker room and chemistry so the miami cheat could never win.

gwrighter
09-24-2011, 11:35 AM
that's how I know you guys didn't watch him in Philly, because he was distributing the ball like 80% of the time and only took open jumpers he was hitting. Philly didn't have shooters like that so of course his assists weren't rocket high
And the guy that compared AI To Juwan Howard, log off

his stats suggest otherwise. shooting below his dismal career avg at .417FG%. His ast% was at a career low of 20%.

beasted86
09-24-2011, 11:39 AM
Again, that was an aberration. Scoring is not a problem for the Heat. Everything stems from D and the Heat need role players who can play D, rebound and create fast breaks. They do not need a sixth man or a PG who struggles to distribute the ball, or who briefly showed in his last stint with PHI that he could distribute. btw, 4.1 APG over a small sample size of 25 games does not establish anything positive about distribution abilities. The Heat don't need scoring, they don't need more stars, they need a solid supporting cast.

Actually the Heat do need more scorers and distributors off the bench.

It was clear all season that the Heat needed more speed out of the bench at the guards/wing. When Wade or LeBron went out of the game things really slowed down and had to go 1 on 1 iso. That's the reason why Chalmers the Heat's best PG had to come off the bench to leave some type of quickness there still so we weren't dirt slow when the bench came in.

With him going to the starting lineup most likely, we are hoping Norris Cole can provide that quickness and 2nd gear in the open court like he did in college, and take some of the ballhandling and pick & roll distribution duties off of either Wade or LeBron when one (or very rare times, both) sits on the bench. Real truth, if we didn't get him in the draft, we'd have nothing to lose adding Iverson for the minimum and playing him in the same role.

ink
09-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Actually the Heat do need more scorers and distributors off the bench.

It was clear all season that the Heat needed more speed out of the bench at the guards/wing. When Wade or LeBron went out of the game things really slowed down and had to go 1 on 1 iso. That's the reason why Chalmers the Heat's best PG had to come off the bench to leave some type of quickness there still so we weren't dirt slow when the bench came in.

With him going to the starting lineup most likely, we are hoping Norris Cole can provide that quickness and 2nd gear in the open court like he did in college, and take some of the ballhandling and pick & roll distribution duties off of either Wade or LeBron when one (or very rare times, both) sits on the bench. Real truth, if we didn't get him in the draft, we'd have nothing to lose adding Iverson for the minimum and playing him in the same role.

I'm still not convinced AI would accept a role off the bench so I tend to think of him in the starting lineup, where he would not fit. You're right, as a bench player he could add some needed scoring. This might all be moot since the lockout might cancel out any comeback attempts ...

JasonJohnHorn
09-24-2011, 12:30 PM
I wish there was a option for "Yes, because he is a cancer to his teams and I want to see Miami fail."

Sure, sign Iverson. And McGrady. Then add three or four balls to the game that way there is enough ball to go around for all the egos involved.

Seriously, Iverson has proved he can distribute in the past, he did after all, post the highest assists-per-game average for any player, other than I think Robertson, to also average 30+ in the same season. But I just don't think he's got it in him at this point, and I think his ego has gotten in the way of his game. I may be too late in his career to change this.

Hustlenomics
09-24-2011, 12:47 PM
^ another person who didn't watch him when he was last with Philly

thenetslegend
09-24-2011, 12:58 PM
^ another person who didn't watch him when he was last with Philly

even if you think he distributed the ball well he still barely has anything left to contribute to an nba team

ink
09-24-2011, 01:02 PM
^ another person who didn't watch him when he was last with Philly

Repeatedly pointing out what you think you saw for 25 games out of a 914 game career is not really that persuasive.

beasted's case for him being a scorer off the bench is stronger. That is, if they even want to take a chance on a player who is so far past his physical and mental prime. Besides there are enough egos in that dressing room already.

AIsixersFK
09-24-2011, 01:07 PM
Iverson should just retire. As much as I love him and it hurts me to say it, seeing not scoring 20-30 ppg in his last season was hard to watch. He was the MOST EXCITING PLAYER in the league during his prime.

beasted86
09-24-2011, 01:12 PM
Repeatedly pointing out what you think you saw for 25 games out of a 914 game career is not really that persuasive.

beasted's case for him being a scorer off the bench is stronger. That is, if they even want to take a chance on a player who is so far past his physical and mental prime. Besides there are enough egos in that dressing room already.

Iverson's ego is the last problem I'd expect out of him. He would come to the Heat and definitely play the role that's expected of him.

The real issue is if he has anything left that would be deemed an upgrade over Eddie House and Norris Cole. That's already two smallish scoring guards on the bench. I really don't see the need for a 3rd who's older than both and a year removed from the NBA. If the Heat add another small guard, expect it to be a traditional PG only for insurance in case of a Chalmers injury.

Hustlenomics
09-24-2011, 01:20 PM
"think you saw" please I know what I was watching and how he's obviously not gonna play with the same style as he did in his prime so what's that have to do with anything, how he played recently shows he isn't selfish

Fresno
09-24-2011, 01:57 PM
Iverson should just retire. As much as I love him and it hurts me to say it, seeing not scoring 20-30 ppg in his last season was hard to watch. He was the MOST EXCITING PLAYER in the league during his prime.

What?:confused:

It was hard to watch Iverson not going for 20-30 PPG in 2010 after "retiring"?


[Miz Voice]Really?[/Miz Voice]

Fresno
09-24-2011, 02:07 PM
I wish there was a option for "Yes, because he is a cancer to his teams and I want to see Miami fail."

Sure, sign Iverson. And McGrady. Then add three or four balls to the game that way there is enough ball to go around for all the egos involved.

Seriously, Iverson has proved he can distribute in the past, he did after all, post the highest assists-per-game average for any player, other than I think Robertson, to also average 30+ in the same season. But I just don't think he's got it in him at this point, and I think his ego has gotten in the way of his game. I may be too late in his career to change this.

Why is it so hard to accept/realize that a player like Iverson or McGrady joining a Championship contender means that they'd be a role player? They each aren't good enough to be a #1 option like they were in their primes. Yet you think they would purposely hog shots from LeBron or Wade knowing they are only there on a cheap 1 year deal for the purpose of winning a title?

I can understand thinking AI's ego wont let him accept a role player role, although hes spoken out about being willing to accept that role.

Yet to actually believe a 36 year old Iverson or even a 32 year old T-Mac with bad knees & a bad back is going to come in to a team and act as if its the 2002 season is just ridiculous. I dont think much even needs to be said to that.

People spend so much time joking about these guys that people actually are in belief that a 36 year old Iverson is going to join Miami, wreck team chemistry, take 20-30 shots per game, and pout when Spoelstra gets on him about defense. :laugh:

It seems as if nobody on this site can invision Iverson as a 36 year old veteran role player instead of a 23 year old Franchise player who needs a team built around him taking shots. Sorry, but this is 2011

Shaq didnt demand touches on every possession in Boston.
Grant Hill isnt the go to scorer on the Suns.
Vince Carter isnt doing windmill 360's off the fastbreak with Nash.

AIsixersFK
09-24-2011, 02:56 PM
What?:confused:

It was hard to watch Iverson not going for 20-30 PPG in 2010 after "retiring"?


[Miz Voice]Really?[/Miz Voice]

Uh yeah. He averaged 13ppg. In Philly he was our superstar. So when we got him back even though we knew he wasnt the same player it was just weird not seeing him with the same explosiveness that we were used to. Don't know what u fail to understand....

KingPosey
09-24-2011, 03:23 PM
**** no they shouldnt. They need a pg, that can play off the ball, doesnt have an ego that makes him think he is LBJ or Wade, shares the ball, and can shoot from deep consistently. Allen Iverson is the exact oppposite.

And he sucks. They need a big more than a PG anyways, because LBJ's 22 seconds of ball pounding at a time makes a pg all but useless.

KingPosey
09-24-2011, 03:27 PM
Why is it so hard to accept/realize that a player like Iverson or McGrady joining a Championship contender means that they'd be a role player? They each aren't good enough to be a #1 option like they were in their primes. Yet you think they would purposely hog shots from LeBron or Wade knowing they are only there on a cheap 1 year deal for the purpose of winning a title?

I can understand thinking AI's ego wont let him accept a role player role, although hes spoken out about being willing to accept that role.

Yet to actually believe a 36 year old Iverson or even a 32 year old T-Mac with bad knees & a bad back is going to come in to a team and act as if its the 2002 season is just ridiculous. I dont think much even needs to be said to that.

People spend so much time joking about these guys that people actually are in belief that a 36 year old Iverson is going to join Miami, wreck team chemistry, take 20-30 shots per game, and pout when Spoelstra gets on him about defense. :laugh:

It seems as if nobody on this site can invision Iverson as a 36 year old veteran role player instead of a 23 year old Franchise player who needs a team built around him taking shots. Sorry, but this is 2011

Shaq didnt demand touches on every possession in Boston.
Grant Hill isnt the go to scorer on the Suns.
Vince Carter isnt doing windmill 360's off the fastbreak with Nash.

Listen, TMac got it that he was a role player, even in Detroit. AI never got it, and will never get it. His ego wont let him.

You cant just say, these guys didnt take 30 shots a game, why would AI? They are different people. The second you compared AI's character to Grant Hill's character, you should have realized your argument went sideways.

Fresno
09-24-2011, 03:37 PM
Lisen, TMac got it that he was a role player, even in Detroit. AI never got it, and will never get it. His ego wont let him.

You cant just say, these guys didnt take 30 shots a game, why would AI? They are different people. The second you compared AI's character to Grant Hill's character, you should have realized your argument went sideways.

Then why is he trying to make a NBA comeback? His recent interview mentioned how not being in the NBA was a reality check to him. I'll post the quotes again if you're curious to see what the latest has been on him.

I mean seriously if his ego couldn't let him be a reserve in the NBA, he could have easily retired 3 years ago and kept his PPG mark.

He has nothing to prove in his legacy at this point. Hes a guaranteed 1st ballot HOFer who revolutionized the game post-Jordan as one of the most popular NBA stars.

The only thing left to prove is whether he can subsidize his ego for the sake of winning a title.

What I mentioned with Grant Hill is the same thing, Grant Hill is a career loser in the NBA who had never been past the 1st Round of the Playoffs until 2 years ago at 37. Hes still playing because he wants to prove he can win a NBA title, because it obviously isnt for anything else statistically or financially. He could've hung it up following all of his injuries but instead he pushed on and joined Phoenix hoping to be the missing piece to a Title team.

KingPosey
09-24-2011, 03:59 PM
^
lol there is literally a million reasons he wants back into the NBA, and proving he can, not act like a S**T Head and be a role player doesnt have to be one of them.

thenetslegend
09-24-2011, 05:55 PM
Uh yeah. He averaged 13ppg. In Philly he was our superstar. So when we got him back even though we knew he wasnt the same player it was just weird not seeing him with the same explosiveness that we were used to. Don't know what u fail to understand....

after seeing him on the pistons you should have expected it lol, clearly he wasnt going to have the same explosiveness at that age

ink
09-24-2011, 06:10 PM
"think you saw" please I know what I was watching and how he's obviously not gonna play with the same style as he did in his prime so what's that have to do with anything, how he played recently shows he isn't selfish

1. 25 games is a ridiculously small sample size to draw ANY conclusions
2. that kind of play came after he had been humiliated into playing that way
3. the stats from that tiny sample size of 25 games don't really bear out the "pass first" AI you're describing
4. if the Heat were to pick him up it wouldn't be to try to convert him into a passing PG at the ripe old basketball age of 36, it would be (as beasted suggests) to get some scoring off the bench. Stronger argument.

ink
09-24-2011, 06:16 PM
Then why is he trying to make a NBA comeback? His recent interview mentioned how not being in the NBA was a reality check to him. I'll post the quotes again if you're curious to see what the latest has been on him.

I mean seriously if his ego couldn't let him be a reserve in the NBA, he could have easily retired 3 years ago and kept his PPG mark.

He has nothing to prove in his legacy at this point. Hes a guaranteed 1st ballot HOFer who revolutionized the game post-Jordan as one of the most popular NBA stars.

The only thing left to prove is whether he can subsidize his ego for the sake of winning a title.

What I mentioned with Grant Hill is the same thing, Grant Hill is a career loser in the NBA who had never been past the 1st Round of the Playoffs until 2 years ago at 37. Hes still playing because he wants to prove he can win a NBA title, because it obviously isnt for anything else statistically or financially. He could've hung it up following all of his injuries but instead he pushed on and joined Phoenix hoping to be the missing piece to a Title team.

Revolutionized the game?? Exactly what permanent influence will he have on the game? Others did it better before him (i.e. Oscar, Magic) with more team success. The only thing AI achieved was for himself.

btw running up personal stats does not revolutionize anything. It may however work off the bench when there's a void of scoring.

bazarov
09-24-2011, 07:45 PM
Yes, I definitely disagree.

The Lakers were the favorites for very good reason. Let's not forget the winning streak they ended the year with after the all-star break. Funny how one series can diminish fans' perception this quickly. The Lakers having a healthy Bynum for a playoff run in a long time, adding Blake and Barnes as well as Odom having a 6th man worthy season they were the clear "powerhouse" you are talking about. It just proved how good the Mavs really are and how versatile their team was that they were able to sweep them.

The Bulls that you say the Heat supposedly need to worry about because our window is closing to continue beating them just lost 4-1. So I'm not sure where you are reaching on how fast they can get better enough to compensate for the difference that's already there... The Celtics slow decline was always inevitable... Thunder put it together? You really think what the Thunder have right now will ever develop better enough to surpass the Heat's core in the next 4 years? Durant, Westbrook, and Harden will become better than LeBron, Wade, and Bosh within 4 years? Again, are we reaching past realistic scenarios just to try and make a point? As far as LA reloading, who's championship window do you think would be longer in 2012-2013... Howard 26, Pau 32, Kobe Bryant 34, or Wade 31, LeBron 27, Bosh 28?

The basis for your comment seems far fetched as the Heat who are already EC champions will be in the top 4 team discussion for the next 4 years, and while you agree the team can only get better, you make it sound as if while other teams add pieces the Heat can only sit on their hands. Yes, the Heat have 3 guys making double digit salary, but how does that differ from the Bulls who have 3 already making $12M or more: Deng, Boozer, Noah, and Rose is due an extension this coming season where he will get the max of $14M+... yet you propose they can add another all-star while the Heat add what? 35yr old veteran minimum guys only? How realistic are you being? Where are you going exactly?

My whole point is any team that's pretty much almost fact before it even happens a top 4 team for the next 4 years surely does not need to get 'markedly better' to beat anyone.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Mavericks as a powerhouse.

I never said that the Bulls were better than the Heat. I said that if the Bulls take the next step (i.e., find another All-Star), then they are going to be a favorite. Maybe they won't find another All-Star, but it's not that unlikely.

Similarly, I never said the Thunder were better than the Heat. I said if the Thunder ever put it all together, then they are going to be another bona fide contender. I find this to be more unlikely than the Bulls finding another All-Star, but it's still possible.

The Lakers play in a different league than everyone else. They WILL reload. Maybe they won't be as good, maybe Bryant will be on his way out once they do, but the Lakers WILL reload. That's just how it goes with the Lakers. They play in LA to a celebrity culture, it's a storied franchise, and Buss/Kupchak know how to get things done. Howard is almost certainly going there during this season or after. I wouldn't be surprised to see another major star head there soon too.

And then there's the Mavericks (who beat the Heat) and the Celtics (who are of course aging fast).

The point is that the Heat haven't really separated from this pack. They aren't even the best team in this pack. Could they win? Sure. But they better do one of two things: either win NOW before one of these other teams separates from the pack or get markedly better and separate from the pack themselves. Otherwise they're just another of the 4-6 contenders every year. Contenders by definition have a reasonable chance to win, but expecting them to win is crazy. And given the expectations on the Heat (7 championships?), well I'd say there's a bit of a discrepancy there.

beasted86
09-24-2011, 08:33 PM
The point is that the Heat haven't really separated from this pack. They aren't even the best team in this pack. Could they win? Sure. But they better do one of two things: either win NOW before one of these other teams separates from the pack or get markedly better and separate from the pack themselves. Otherwise they're just another of the 4-6 contenders every year. Contenders by definition have a reasonable chance to win, but expecting them to win is crazy. And given the expectations on the Heat (7 championships?), well I'd say there's a bit of a discrepancy there.

First, I find it laughable that you say Howard is certain to be a Laker next season or next summer. But moving on to the core disagreement in your comment...

You just placed a hypothetical scenario on 3 teams instead basing your assessment of where the Heat stand right now and the facts of what those teams have right now. Based on where they finished last season, and the circumstances surrounding the team, it's safe to say the Heat will be a top 3-4 team for the next 4 years, and is will be the favorite for the next 4 years to come out of the East.

For any team to become 'markedly better' than the Heat, it would take nothing short of adding an all-star or superstar without that same team losing anything in exchange. But if we are working under a system of hypothetical scenarios where teams get significantly better so easy, why not speculate Nene signs for the mid-level with the Heat, and Steve Nash negotiates a buyout and comes for the veteran minimum?

bazarov
09-24-2011, 09:15 PM
First, I find it laughable that you say Howard is certain to be a Laker next season or next summer. But moving on to the core disagreement in your comment...

You just placed a hypothetical scenario on 3 teams instead basing your assessment of where the Heat stand right now and the facts of what those teams have right now. Based on where they finished last season, and the circumstances surrounding the team, it's safe to say the Heat will be a top 3-4 team for the next 4 years, and is will be the favorite for the next 4 years to come out of the East.

For any team to become 'markedly better' than the Heat, it would take nothing short of adding an all-star or superstar without that same team losing anything in exchange. But if we are working under a system of hypothetical scenarios where teams get significantly better so easy, why not speculate Nene signs for the mid-level with the Heat, and Steve Nash negotiates a buyout and comes for the veteran minimum?

Where do you think Howard will go? I'd put a TON of money on him going to the Lakers. Hell, I'd be willing to even put specifics in there: traded to the Lakers midseason for Gasol and Bynum (with throwins on both sides as needed) ... that is, if we have a season.

But anyway ... you're right to criticize my "hypotheticals," but you have to consider that this is a Heat-specific discussion. In other words, there's the Heat and there's "not the Heat." My specifics -- Bulls getting another All-Star, Lakers getting Howard -- are just examples of my more general point: that there are no true powerhouses but several teams stand within varying degrees of likelihood of becoming a powerhouse. For the Heat, we know what this entails, more or less. For "not the Heat," it could be any number of factors, including but not limited to the examples I've given.

To put it differently: I'm not picking on the Heat here. The Bulls, for example, would also have to get "markedly better" for me to consider them anything more than one of 4-6 contenders. But this is a thread about the Heat, so the Heat get the pleasure of having their expectations tempered. Some team will step up to the plate in the next several years. Right now I have no reason to think it will be the Heat (as opposed to any of the other few teams we've mentioned). So they either need to be that team or sneak out a championship now while the power shifts around.


If you want to speculate about Nene or Steve Nash, go right ahead. I mean, you're sort of implicitly acknowledging that the Heat do in fact need to get better to win.

Finally, I'll agree that the Heat will be a top 3-4 team for the next several years. I don't agree, however, that the Heat will necessarily be the favorite out of the East for all those years. Going into this year, yes. After that, we'll see.

Hustlenomics
09-25-2011, 02:15 AM
1. 25 games is a ridiculously small sample size to draw ANY conclusions
2. that kind of play came after he had been humiliated into playing that way
3. the stats from that tiny sample size of 25 games don't really bear out the "pass first" AI you're describing
4. if the Heat were to pick him up it wouldn't be to try to convert him into a passing PG at the ripe old basketball age of 36, it would be (as beasted suggests) to get some scoring off the bench. Stronger argument.

It was 25 games of him playing the same way and of course He's going to change with the media riding him 24/7 and making up ******** about him like people in this thread are doing. WATCH GAMES THEY TELL YOU MORE THAN STATS

ink
09-25-2011, 02:41 AM
It was 25 games of him playing the same way and of course He's going to change with the media riding him 24/7 and making up ******** about him like people in this thread are doing. WATCH GAMES THEY TELL YOU MORE THAN STATS

Again, 25 games is really nothing. And I don't think the Heat would be interested in trying to convert a semi-retired ex-All Star into something he is not. If they need a scorer off the bench, so be it, he can try to coax his aged body into producing again. But there's definitely no need for him as a starter.

Hustlenomics
09-25-2011, 11:00 AM
He would have continued playing the same way if he played the whole season and your over exaggerating his age he isn't a fossil

gwrighter
09-25-2011, 11:15 AM
He would have continued playing the same way if he played the whole season and your over exaggerating his age he isn't a fossil

answer me this, would you let him jack up shots in a finals elimination game? Is he still good enough to have an impact when everything is on the line? Or will he end up like VC in Orlando & fail to have an impact? I'm thinking that he will be more like the latter than former.

Rego247
09-25-2011, 12:40 PM
Again, 25 games is really nothing. And I don't think the Heat would be interested in trying to convert a semi-retired ex-All Star into something he is not. If they need a scorer off the bench, so be it, he can try to coax his aged body into producing again. But there's definitely no need for him as a starter.

This.

Wilson
09-25-2011, 03:08 PM
I would like to see Iverson make a successful return to the league but it would be extremely difficult for him at Miami I think. That team struggled to deal with the media scrutiny last season, adding Iverson isn't exactly going to cool things off.

Miami made the Finals, I think all they need to do is add any proven character guys who become available, guys who can keep the atmosphere good in the locker room without creating more media scrutiny and chip in as role players on the court.

Team*Chicago
09-26-2011, 11:48 PM
I voted yes because I hate cryami heat.

sunnydayin'zona
09-27-2011, 12:08 AM
Rather see him with the Magic.

I would LOVE to see that! :D I'd never thought about it, but that'd be a great idea, actually

MR.TRIPDUB
09-27-2011, 12:44 AM
To the OP, saw your other thread. You also dont think training camps are important, very iverson-worthy.

IndiansFan337
09-27-2011, 12:47 AM
No, they literally have no need for him. They don't need a big name guy to sell tickets and/or merchandise, don't need another scorer, and don't need another guy who needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

He would honestly be one of the worst players that they could acquire.

He could play on another team in a bench scorer role, if he were willing to accept that. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that is the case.

AsfanSince99
09-27-2011, 02:40 AM
I think the fact that the Heat went with Bibby last year instead of AI speaks volumes.

He also wasn't invited to play in any of the marquee exhibition matches this offseason. That also doesn't bode well for someone who wants to get back into the league. You would think he and his agent would be wanting to play with LeBron, Melo, et al... just to showcase his health and skills.

AsfanSince99
09-27-2011, 02:43 AM
I voted yes because I hate cryami heat.
I only voted yes cause I hate all the Iverson haters.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 02:19 PM
Yea INK he revolutionized the game cuz nobody had the skillset/athletic physical ability at his 5'10'' size ..he could equally shoot and drive and was equally tough and fearless...how is that not revolutionizing the game? and he played 6-7 inches shorter than the avg 2guard and he was a starting 2guard at 5'10

Now ask yourself how is that not revolutionizing the game, and of course Magic will have more 'team' success when the org you play for is LAKERS vs SIXERS

Pay close attention
Magic's(#1pick) teammates in LAKERLAND: Worthy(#1 pick),Alcindor(#1 pick and league MVP prior to joining Magic),J.Wilkes,Nixon,McAdoo,Scott,Cooper ..once again how did Magic make these guys better and dont give me that ******** he was setting them up cuz if you go back and watch games Worthy was taking the ball rather it was on breaks or in half court and taking off dunking on people from his abilities(Magic had nothing to do with it,trust me jus throw finishers the ball and watch'em 'finish') and we all know how that 'hook' shot for ALCINDOR was,he didnt need nobody to set him up like its rocket science,jus toss it in to him and let him operate

IVERSON(#1pick) - they passed on TMAC/DIRK/P.PIERCE to draft HUGHES/VAN HORN(T.THOMAS originally), Korver(no better 8yrs later),Iggy(no better 8yrs later), Stackhouse(got ran out cuz he wanted max $,also jealous of AI taking franchise over),Webber&Coleman&BigDog were all either over injured or just out of shape n quit on career, Marc Jackson(avg big),K.Thomas(avg undersized combo forward),McCullough(avg center who got paid playing with AI,and they won basically 50games as him n Geiger manning C position) ...should i even go on? and when i say 'avg' im being very ****in sports friendly just cuz i played and i dont really like dissing those on highest sport level,but it is what it is

And Iverson has played in Larry Brown slow offensive system to Karls run n gun fast paced back to slow down style in Detroit, so he can play and be effective in any off. system..its funny as hell that perception of Iverson was to jack up shots but not for one second does 'LLEMON'' or any other person who dislike AI cuz of his 'fans' say hey he didnt have proper talent around him so he had to shoot, all you dudes do is mention he had good 'Defensive' players around him but last time i checked you gotta score to win....AI was so good 'individually' that people made it seemed like he played with SHAQ/LEBRON type talent is his 'prime'(hate that term cuz he was primed as a junior in HS) and was taking those same 22 shots per game...at least i know who im dealin wit on here

Also when did PSD become a comedian site? AI cant shoot or distribute the ball? like i been saying the media has brainwashed into thinking he cant shoot or score but his only 'weakness' when he entered the league as #1overall pick was ''TURNOVERS'' ..name me a guard in history of NBA who entered the league from day 1 with a weakness of ''TURNOVERS'' and playing too ''fast''(wouldnt having the ball and Offense ran thru you pretty much entire game have something to do with that ala NASH/MAGIC/WADE/LEBRON/STOCKTON?)

http://youtu.be/5FGki9gshb4 - how can your form be this pretty and smooth and perfect elevation and not be able to shoot? he just shot most of his Philly days being double/triple and degree of difficulty of his shots are twice as hard as a KOBE/LEBRON/DURANT being hes a little guy getting same defense coverage as a SHAQ/DUNCAN/LEBRON/WADE/KOBE type

http://youtu.be/hR9NR2pd47w - this is from his Junior yr in High School, how can you be this good ''INDIVIDUALLY'' and not be a Senior or a Freshman at College?

Quit making me laugh on here with the not being a shooter or passer when he shot 35pct from 3pt land his final full season(33yrs old) with Melo in 08 and he avg like 30ppg and 8apg with a baby Iggy and a broken down done Webber, can you imagine WADE/LEBRON drawing all that attn thats something he never had til he went and played with Melo 12yrs later into his illustrious career,and who cares if he lost his super ultra xplosvie first step hes still 'fast' and last time i checked his 'j' was still wet cuz that pretty much never leaves you

http://youtu.be/Haw-cDOiCl8 - @2:31 mark check out the old man hops,you guys on here amaze me, i dont think you understand the athletic genetic diff from a LEBRON/IVERSON/VICK/MOSS type to a BRADY/KOBE/MANNING/PIERCE type athletes..its different levels with the former being 'freakish' and the latter being decent to good type athletes

llemon
09-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Yea INK he revolutionized the game cuz nobody had the skillset/athletic physical ability at his 5'10'' size ..he could equally shoot and drive and was equally tough and fearless...how is that not revolutionizing the game? and he played 6-7 inches shorter than the avg 2guard and he was a starting 2guard at 5'10

Now ask yourself how is that not revolutionizing the game, and of course Magic will have more 'team' success when the org you play for is LAKERS vs SIXERS

Pay close attention
Magic's(#1pick) teammates in LAKERLAND: Worthy(#1 pick),Alcindor(#1 pick and league MVP prior to joining Magic),J.Wilkes,Nixon,McAdoo,Scott,Cooper ..once again how did Magic make these guys better and dont give me that ******** he was setting them up cuz if you go back and watch games Worthy was taking the ball rather it was on breaks or in half court and taking off dunking on people from his abilities(Magic had nothing to do with it,trust me jus throw finishers the ball and watch'em 'finish') and we all know how that 'hook' shot for ALCINDOR was,he didnt need nobody to set him up like its rocket science,jus toss it in to him and let him operate

IVERSON(#1pick) - they passed on TMAC/DIRK/P.PIERCE to draft HUGHES/VAN HORN(T.THOMAS originally), Korver(no better 8yrs later),Iggy(no better 8yrs later), Stackhouse(got ran out cuz he wanted max $,also jealous of AI taking franchise over),Webber&Coleman&BigDog were all either over injured or just out of shape n quit on career, Marc Jackson(avg big),K.Thomas(avg undersized combo forward),McCullough(avg center who got paid playing with AI,and they won basically 50games as him n Geiger manning C position) ...should i even go on?

And Iverson has played in Larry Brown slow offensive system to Karls run n gun fast paced back to slow down style in Detroit, so he can play and be effective in any off. system..its funny as hell that perception of Iverson was to jack up shots but not for one second does 'LLEMON'' or any other person who dislike AI cuz of his 'fans' say hey he didnt have proper talent around him so he had to shoot, all you dudes do is mention he had good 'Defensive' players around him but last time i checked you gotta score to win....AI was so good 'individually' that people made it seemed like he played with SHAQ/LEBRON type talent is his 'prime'(hate that term cuz he was primed as a junior in HS) and was taking those same 22 shots per game...at least i know who im dealin wit on here

Ever hear of Calvin Murphy?

bazarov
09-28-2011, 02:31 PM
Iverson did not revolutionize the game. He's a one-of-a-kind talent, perhaps the most explosive and best natural scoring combo guard we've ever seen. But the game has not changed because of him. 6 foot nothing guards are not en vogue these days. Volume scoring little men are not the norm.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:29 PM
A 5'10 Shooting Guard? where they make them at? and LLEMON yea i've heard of MURPHY ..he didnt have nowhere near the 'PHYSICAL ABILITY' AI was given, AI was catching half court alley oop dunks in games, do you need proof of that also like the other vids,Murphy was nice shooter but he didnt have the handle/speed or 44inch vertical possesssed,good try tho

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Yea BAZAROV a one of a kind talent who played the 2guard spot where he gave up 6-7 inches(how is that not revolutionary in itself with 4scoring titles), can you imagine N.Robinson who is listed at 5'9 played the 2guard spot his entire career and carried a load like AI did, aint no little dude built like him, Archibald/Murphy are good but aint on that dude level

llemon
09-28-2011, 03:43 PM
A 5'10 Shooting Guard? where they make them at? and LLEMON yea i've heard of MURPHY ..he didnt have nowhere near the 'PHYSICAL ABILITY' AI was given, AI was catching half court alley oop dunks in games, do you need proof of that also like the other vids,Murphy was nice shooter but he didnt have the handle/speed or 44inch vertical possesssed,good try tho

A NICE shooter?

Regular season-Murphy .482, Iverson .425

Playoffs-Murphy .475, Iverson .401

Yeah, a nice shooter.

Let's not get into FT shooting.

Oh, and Calvin was probably the toughest fighter on the court every time he played.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:45 PM
yea BAZAROV a guy playing 7inches shorter than his position and 4 scoring titles aint revolutionary, a 5'10 Shooting guard aint changing the game and the dress code aint changing the game? the avg 2guard is pretty much 6'6'',even WADE is undersized 2guard and he'll eat salt off top of AI's head, BARKLEY is the only other i can think of that freakish 6'6 listed(6'4'' more like it) playing Power forward and vert dunking on Footers, but i guess since those 2 didnt win a SHIP then they dont get a media pass, i dont follow that blueprint

When Isaiah was beating Jordan those 3yrs and winning back to back to me he wasnt better 'individually' than Jordan at any point and when Magic/Bird were winning they werent better than Jordan individually,so thats how i look at AI ..though he wasnt winning titles he was still best or had least to work with out of the Superstars and maximized his surrounding talent,thats the prob i have with PSD,gotta acknowledge his lack of talent before coming at me with the shots per game and PER ****

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:48 PM
Did Murphy face the constant game plan of double/triple teams that AI faced? can you imagine the pressure on AI, it was him or bust all his time thru Philly,all the other team had to gameplan for was AI, who did Murphy have to lean on? FG pct can only be accounted for talent around you in my book, go back to when AI played with MELO and post that, and also at G'town with that talent his Sophomore season, a undersize shooting guard is only going to be as efficient as his surrounding talent, how can you not kno that 'LLEMON"?

llemon
09-28-2011, 03:48 PM
Yea BAZAROV a one of a kind talent who played the 2guard spot where he gave up 6-7 inches(how is that not revolutionary in itself with 4scoring titles), can you imagine N.Robinson who is listed at 5'9 played the 2guard spot his entire career and carried a load like AI did, aint no little dude built like him, Archibald/Murphy are good but aint on that dude level

Tiny was a real PG.

And how often did AI guard the opposing SG, and how often the the opposing SG guard AI?

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:53 PM
He guarded Ray Allen/Miller and whoeva was the opposing teams 2guard, why you think L.BROWN switched him to 2guard(besides lack of off. options)?He said you know 'Iverson may be undersized guarding you on the other end,but how in the hell are you going to stop him running off those screens baseline to baseline like he had him doing(AI had unreal conditioning/stamina)...thats another thing thats funny as hell, he scored like Jordan attacking the basket and also like Miller/RIP/Durant running off screens to the 3pt line to shoot or attack, just face it he had it all at 5star level

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 03:55 PM
xactly LLEMON Tiny was a ''POINT GUARD'' and he was 5'10 so imagine if Tiny had to play ''SHOOTING GUARD'' like AI did where he'd be giving up 7inches or more...trust me the more you talk the more you going to see how freakish he was,AI played both at highest level

Plus they banned his crossover/ankle braces and last i checked 'STOCKTON' carried everytime he had ball(those bullet passes come to mind he threw to Malone&co.?CARRYING or CUFFING the ball)

llemon
09-28-2011, 03:59 PM
He guarded Ray Allen/Miller and whoeva was the opposing teams 2guard, why you think L.BROWN switched him to 2guard(besides lack of off. options)?He said you know 'Iverson may be undersized guarding you on the other end,but how in the hell are you going to stop him running off those screens baseline to baseline like he had him doing(AI had unreal conditioning/stamina)...thats another thing thats funny as hell, he scored like Jordan attacking the basket and also like Miller/RIP/Durant running off screens to the 3pt line to shoot or attack, just face it he had it all at 5star level

Larry Brown switched him to the 2 guard because Sixers had a PG (Snow) who could defend SGs.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 04:11 PM
They switched him after they realized he would have to be options 1,2,3 and sometimes 4th scoring option, but i recall him guarding Allen/R.Miller/Miller from Orlando and other 2's but it had to be done after a while cuz he was giving up 7-8inches, aint nobody built like him

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 04:16 PM
http://youtu.be/tkDLGGjV7j0 - Yea he cant shoot but they run him off screens and he's pulling up on J/3's on pretty much all his pts

llemon
09-28-2011, 04:20 PM
They switched him after they realized he would have to be options 1,2,3 and sometimes 4th scoring option, but i recall him guarding Allen/R.Miller/Miller from Orlando and other 2's but it had to be done after a while cuz he was giving up 7-8inches, aint nobody built like him

It was done because Iverson is not a PG, and they acquired a PG that could guard SGs (Eric Snow) in the '97-'98 season.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 04:36 PM
Yea after he had to carry off. load, but go back and watch games or so and you'll clearly see it, its even documented on that SPORTSCENTURY they did on AI, that columnist said that quote i posted earlier what BROWN told him, it doesnt matter if hes not a PG or SG,hes a ballplayer/playmaker, why would AI run the PG when BROWN relied on him to drop 40 on any given night? he knew he had a once in a lifetime talent, when has a team ever built around a guy under 6ft for over a decade,i'll be waiting a long while for that answer?

being 5'10'' aint a PG,thats perfect PG height,he was jus xplosive and wasnt in same mold of a STOCKTON/NASH and havent played with a MALONE or the pool of talent NASH has had with MAVS/SUNS? or was he that gifted to do what was best for his team at that time? last time i checked isnt BROWN a HOF coach? so wouldnt he do whats best for the team and yrs later they still couldnt get him a 2nd legit guy ...BIG DOG GLENN and WEBBER dont count neither does COLEMAN for that matter...or wat about GEIGER he was pretty good, or what about MELO ''12 yrs later''? They needed scoring so they moved him to SG, BROWN is old school so no way would he have his PG shooting 22x per game,so he went and got an avg talent instead of a tremendous PG,it didnt have to be SNOW/MCKIE,and they sure as hell didnt have to lock up those 2players for 80milliion combined...10million for both combined sound about right,and that might be overpaying for avg players

LLEMON who is your fav player or who do you consider the best and what criteria do you take to rank'em?

bazarov
09-28-2011, 05:07 PM
yea BAZAROV a guy playing 7inches shorter than his position and 4 scoring titles aint revolutionary, a 5'10 Shooting guard aint changing the game and the dress code aint changing the game? the avg 2guard is pretty much 6'6'',even WADE is undersized 2guard and he'll eat salt off top of AI's head, BARKLEY is the only other i can think of that freakish 6'6 listed(6'4'' more like it) playing Power forward and vert dunking on Footers, but i guess since those 2 didnt win a SHIP then they dont get a media pass, i dont follow that blueprint

When Isaiah was beating Jordan those 3yrs and winning back to back to me he wasnt better 'individually' than Jordan at any point and when Magic/Bird were winning they werent better than Jordan individually,so thats how i look at AI ..though he wasnt winning titles he was still best or had least to work with out of the Superstars and maximized his surrounding talent,thats the prob i have with PSD,gotta acknowledge his lack of talent before coming at me with the shots per game and PER ****

You don't seem to understand what the word "revolutionary" means. I love Iverson as much as almost anyone. He really is a talent we'll never see again. But he didn't change the game. No one is looking for the next Allen Iverson. He doesn't fit the molds of what teams are looking for from either a PG or a SG.

If you know anything about baseball, think of it like Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth. They've gone down in the history books as near equals in terms of offensive prowess. But only Babe Ruth revolutionized the game.

Fresno
09-28-2011, 05:51 PM
3RDASYSTEM is locking this thread down right now.

Love hearing all of the excuses people make against Iverson then & even now.

:clap:

Fresno
09-28-2011, 05:57 PM
You don't seem to understand what the word "revolutionary" means. I love Iverson as much as almost anyone. He really is a talent we'll never see again. But he didn't change the game. No one is looking for the next Allen Iverson. He doesn't fit the molds of what teams are looking for from either a PG or a SG.

Actually, Iverson inspired this era of quick, athletic scoring PG's. With the idea of moving a scoring guard with a great handle to PG in an attempt to keep the ball in their hands.


Francis
Arenas
Ellis(eventually moved full-time to SG)
Westbrook
Rose
Tyreke(moving full-time to SG)

There is no doubt Iverson would've been considered an "Elite" PG had he played the position his whole career. But his scoring load would have to be lower due to at least having a teammate who could score like when he had Stackhouse & Melo.

JNA17
09-28-2011, 05:59 PM
Heat need a PG who can shoot from the outside consistently and defend, not a washed up scoring SG.

llemon
09-28-2011, 06:24 PM
Yea after he had to carry off. load, but go back and watch games or so and you'll clearly see it, its even documented on that SPORTSCENTURY they did on AI, that columnist said that quote i posted earlier what BROWN told him, it doesnt matter if hes not a PG or SG,hes a ballplayer/playmaker, why would AI run the PG when BROWN relied on him to drop 40 on any given night? he knew he had a once in a lifetime talent, when has a team ever built around a guy under 6ft for over a decade,i'll be waiting a long while for that answer?

being 5'10'' aint a PG,thats perfect PG height,he was jus xplosive and wasnt in same mold of a STOCKTON/NASH and havent played with a MALONE or the pool of talent NASH has had with MAVS/SUNS? or was he that gifted to do what was best for his team at that time? last time i checked isnt BROWN a HOF coach? so wouldnt he do whats best for the team and yrs later they still couldnt get him a 2nd legit guy ...BIG DOG GLENN and WEBBER dont count neither does COLEMAN for that matter...or wat about GEIGER he was pretty good, or what about MELO ''12 yrs later''? They needed scoring so they moved him to SG, BROWN is old school so no way would he have his PG shooting 22x per game,so he went and got an avg talent instead of a tremendous PG,it didnt have to be SNOW/MCKIE,and they sure as hell didnt have to lock up those 2players for 80milliion combined...10million for both combined sound about right,and that might be overpaying for avg players

LLEMON who is your fav player or who do you consider the best and what criteria do you take to rank'em?

My favorite player right now is Kris Humphries. I like the way he plays the game, especially last season.

I certainly don't think he's the best, but I like a guy that hustles, plays physically, and is not afraid to lay the hammer down.

However, I don't believe he's a 'revolutionary' player.

As to who is the best player ever, Michael Jordan. Best I've ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA since 1962.

My favorite player ever is Julius Erving. I think he was the most electrifying player I've ever seen, especially in those ABA years.

But if Julius was 'revolutionary', it was only because of the troubles that Connie Hawkins had.

Oh, and AI was as much of a PG as Calvin Murphy was. Quick, could make the pass, but neither knew how to run an offense. And AI was a TO machine at the point.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:10 PM
BAZAROV said i dont understand revolutionary but post Jordan hes had most influence on game to opposite of the norm,thats not revolutionary when WADE/LEBRON/MELO(had his poster on his wall) and a host of others dont copy him with the braids or arm sleeve or crossover or just buckin the entire system doing it 'his way'?,rather good or bad thats revolutionary in BBall terms, and like i said if N.ROBINSON was playing the 2guard and winning 4scoring titles that wouldnt be revolutionary and carrying a franchise solo for over a decade? and scoring like JORDAN/DURANT/R.MILLER combined? he was a freak of nature to do what he did at his size, you guys keep bringing up Murphy/Tiny but none of them had a 44inch vertical to go along with the skill set,only ROSE has the ATHLETIC ability his skill set cant match AI

Iverson got blackballed from his rookie yr when he made that infamous quote about not wanting to be ''Micheal Jordan,or Bird or Magic or Isaiah,its well documented

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:13 PM
AI was a turnover machine LLEMON? avg 3.5 TO's per game and having the ball in your hands 95pct of time or it ends up in his hands and thats all, not 5/6/7 TO's per game,jus under 4? and last i checked MAGIC leads entire history for TO's..does that mean his 'showtime' assists were overvalued cuz he turned the ball over alot, or how about WADE/LEBRON before they teamed up,they were up there in top 3-5 TO's per game and i wonder why? just like NASH/KIDD..you guys are pure comedy on here hating on a guy who played JORDANS position but wuz a good 5inches shorter than MJ

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:22 PM
I gotcha LLEMON, I like hustle players also so how could you not like AI,he was Superstar always diving and hustling on hardwood...

Humphries is a hard worker but nothin more nothin less, it sucks when your more known for dating a lady then your own craft,but hey to each his own

Dr J was instrumental n damn near borderline rev. cuz he influenced Jordans 'flight' game heavily and how he came from that other league ABA or somethin like that

If we base it off accomplished/decorated then its Jordan/Alcindor/Russell but if we base it like i base it off 'individual' play then i gotta go with Iverson cuz from day 1 he had it all and like you said his only weakness was 'turnovers' but to me that comes from having the ball in your hand so much cuz your team depends on you heavily to set things up or score or both(in his case)

Iverson didnt even play his senior yr in high school, if he would have theres no doubt he could have came strait out of high school

AI could run an offense,its just sad when you are the entire 'offense',i would never ever in my life build a team around a guy under 6ft, but hes the exception cuz he play big like a SHAQ/LEBRON ...even SHAQ quoted saying he was a 'mini version of him' after AI won MVP at ASG some yrs back

bazarov
09-28-2011, 07:27 PM
BAZAROV said i dont understand revolutionary but post Jordan hes had most influence on game to opposite of the norm,thats not revolutionary when WADE/LEBRON/MELO(had his poster on his wall) and a host of others dont copy him with the braids or arm sleeve or crossover or just buckin the entire system doing it 'his way'?,rather good or bad thats revolutionary in BBall terms, and like i said if N.ROBINSON was playing the 2guard and winning 4scoring titles that wouldnt be revolutionary and carrying a franchise solo for over a decade? and scoring like JORDAN/DURANT/R.MILLER combined? he was a freak of nature to do what he did at his size, you guys keep bringing up Murphy/Tiny but none of them had a 44inch vertical to go along with the skill set,only ROSE has the ATHLETIC ability his skill set cant match AI

Iverson got blackballed from his rookie yr when he made that infamous quote about not wanting to be ''Micheal Jordan,or Bird or Magic or Isaiah,its well documented

You're proving my point with all this Nate Robinson talk. If Nate Robinson had carried a team to the Finals and won 4 scoring championships, we'd all be like, "****, that dude was ****ing amazing." But no one would be out looking for the next Nate Robinson. No knock on him. Just the simple fact that he doesn't fit the mold of a 2 as the NBA progresses.

The posters on the wall and braids mean nothing. We're talking about the game, not popularity.

Again, I love Iverson. But the way the game is played is not any different because he came through the league.

ink
09-28-2011, 07:30 PM
Yea INK he revolutionized the game cuz nobody had the skillset/athletic physical ability at his 5'10'' size ..he could equally shoot and drive and was equally tough and fearless...how is that not revolutionizing the game? and he played 6-7 inches shorter than the avg 2guard and he was a starting 2guard at 5'10

That's not revolutionizing the game. That's just playing undersized. See Charles Barkley. I wouldn't claim Barkley "revolutionized the game". He just played undersized, like tons of athletes. No big deal there.

ink
09-28-2011, 07:31 PM
iverson did not revolutionize the game. He's a one-of-a-kind talent, perhaps the most explosive and best natural scoring combo guard we've ever seen. But the game has not changed because of him. 6 foot nothing guards are not en vogue these days. Volume scoring little men are not the norm.

+1

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:32 PM
And in my book aint nobody looking for next Ruth cuz aint going to be no slugger/pitcher combo ever just like you wont see a 5'10'' NBA MVP or multi scoring champ ever,and wont no guy under 6ft ever lead his team as the first 3 scoring options on its team, LEBRON/OLAJUWON were 6'8'' and 6'10'' , a whole foot bigger and he played equally big as those big men

Hell AI banged with arguably 2 best bigs of his time SHAQ beat out AI in 2000 for league MVP then AI beat Duncan next yr for league MVP...so he always banged with big boys,and this was when SHAQ/DUNCAN were 'primed' and most dominant of their days

ink
09-28-2011, 07:34 PM
And in my book aint nobody looking for next Ruth cuz aint going to be no slugger/pitcher combo ever just like you wont see a 5'10'' NBA MVP or multi scoring champ ever,and wont no guy under 6ft ever lead his team as the first 3 options on its team, LEBRON/OLAJUWON were 6'8'' and 6'10'' , a whole foot bigger and he played equally big as those big men

Hell AI banged with arguably 2 best bigs of his time SHAQ beat out AI in 2000 for league MVP then AI beat Duncan next yr for league MVP...so he always banged with big boys,and this was when SHAQ/DUNCAN were 'primed' and most dominant of their days

You are actually disproving your point about revolutionizing the game here by saying that there isn't going to be another like him. Just sayin ...

bazarov
09-28-2011, 07:36 PM
Actually, Iverson inspired this era of quick, athletic scoring PG's. With the idea of moving a scoring guard with a great handle to PG in an attempt to keep the ball in their hands.


Francis
Arenas
Ellis(eventually moved full-time to SG)
Westbrook
Rose
Tyreke(moving full-time to SG)

There is no doubt Iverson would've been considered an "Elite" PG had he played the position his whole career. But his scoring load would have to be lower due to at least having a teammate who could score like when he had Stackhouse & Melo.

That's the cast you're putting out there? None of those guys have even been to a Finals. Evans is 6'6" and nowhere near as quick as Iverson. Westbrook is 6'4" and one of the better PG defenders in the game. Rose is 6'3" and a solid defender himself. And none of those guys are volume scorers like Iverson was counted on to be ... except Arenas and Ellis, neither of whom ever made even a conference Finals.

There's no doubting Iverson's greatness. My point is that he didn't revolutionize the game. Few players do. The league had only a few guys this past decade that have. Nowitzki, Shaq ... maybe KG and maybe McGrady. Rose has a chance from here on out. That's it. And the best players in the second half of the decade -- Kobe, LBJ, Wade -- aren't among that group. LBJ may have revolutionized the way we look at HS players and the media scrutiny and all that, but he hasn't changed anything about play or scouting. And neither did Iverson.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:38 PM
Barkley didnt get drafted to replace JORDAN like AI was in place, why you think Stern has had it with him from day one,he bucked the entire system...REVOLUTIONARY

The doo rag at his ROY press conference pissed Stern off,the quote about not wanting to be Jordan/Bird/Magic/Isaiah put nail in his rookie/career coffin cuz last i checked them are the most decorated names in history of NBA and sports period,so it is what it is,still cant take away how great he was 'individually' from his 'inception' it didnt take him yrs to develop and get going

bazarov
09-28-2011, 07:42 PM
Barkley didnt get drafted to replace JORDAN like AI was in place, why you think Stern has had it with him from day one,he bucked the entire system...REVOLUTIONARY

The doo rag at his ROY press conference pissed Stern off,the quote about not wanting to be Jordan/Bird/Magic/Isaiah put nail in his rookie/career coffin cuz last i checked them are the most decorated names in history of NBA and sports period,so it is what it is,still cant take away how great he was 'individually' from his 'inception' it didnt take him yrs to develop and get going

None of that has to do with the game. ****, Chris Webber and the Fab Five revolutionized NBA fan culture more than anyone, but that's not what we're talking about.

ink
09-28-2011, 07:43 PM
That's the cast you're putting out there? None of those guys have even been to a Finals. Evans is 6'6" and nowhere near as quick as Iverson. Westbrook is 6'4" and one of the better PG defenders in the game. Rose is 6'3" and a solid defender himself. And none of those guys are volume scorers like Iverson was counted on to be ... except Arenas and Ellis, neither of whom ever made even a conference Finals.

There's no doubting Iverson's greatness. My point is that he didn't revolutionize the game. Few players do. The league had only a few guys this past decade that have. Nowitzki, Shaq ... maybe KG and maybe McGrady. Rose has a chance from here on out. That's it. And the best players in the second half of the decade -- Kobe, LBJ, Wade -- aren't among that group. LBJ may have revolutionized the way we look at HS players and the media scrutiny and all that, but he hasn't changed anything about play or scouting. And neither did Iverson.

This would be a good thread idea except it would end up turning into who had the most rings thread and all about Kobe vs Lebron vs DWade. It would be interesting to talk about players that ACTUALLY revolutionized the game and changed the way the game was played.

I'm as guilty as anyone of letting the thread drift off topic though since I got caught up in the revolutionized comment. The real question in the thread is "should Miami sign him?"

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:45 PM
So INK thinks it will be a N.Robinson type size to come duplicate what he did? whos going to do it,ROSE/WESTBROOK/EVANS are all 4-7inches taller than AI

I dont think you guys understand how lil dude is and how much 'physical ability' he had...he weighed 155lbs playing amongst the 'trees' of the NBA, i've watched Parker and other quick types who have came in league and trust me aint no little guy(under 6ft) ever going to have a team build around them and get anywhere without major help ala CP3 and whatever else lil guy you want to throw around, Iverson was an xplosive scorer and a vastly underrated playmaker,which was his strong suit if you ask me,its just they neva had the proper horses around him like a NASH had with MAVS/SUNS ..if he would have had Cuban/West building around him he would have been way more efficient..jus go check his stats with MELO and by that time he was 'old' man in bball terms

bazarov
09-28-2011, 07:51 PM
So INK thinks it will be a N.Robinson type size to come duplicate what he did? whos going to do it,ROSE/WESTBROOK/EVANS are all 4-7inches taller than AI

I dont think you guys understand how lil dude is and how much 'physical ability' he had...he weighed 155lbs playing amongst the 'trees' of the NBA, i've watched Parker and other quick types who have came in league and trust me aint no little guy(under 6ft) ever going to have a team build around them and get anywhere without major help ala CP3 and whatever else lil guy you want to throw around, Iverson was an xplosive scorer and a vastly underrated playmaker,which was his strong suit if you ask me,its just they neva had the proper horses around him like a NASH had with MAVS/SUNS ..if he would have had Cuban/West building around him he would have been way more efficient..jus go check his stats with MELO and by that time he was 'old' man in bball terms

Talking about how little Iverson is and how no one will duplicate just proves our point. You even say "no little guy is ever gonna have a team built around him." There we go. That's it.

Again, Iverson could be the best player that ever played. That doesn't change the fact that he didn't revolutionize the game.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:52 PM
Well INK who did revolutonize the game, and RUTH dont count cuz its kind of like how WILT scored a hundred but against inferior, and RUTH wasnt playing against 2days comp,but i wont take away they accomplishments just like i wont for AI or any other player, so if you dont think he revolutionized the game, lets just say he's the closest cuz if you dont think his influence is to guys in the league now and playground kids black/white everywhere,hes the avg fan height...and whats so funny is during his rookie yr the fans were holding up signs saying 'let the revolution begin' ....but hey we all think diff. which makes for good debate

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:54 PM
For a decade they wont build around a guy under 6ft,they will add another Superstar or two,Iverson took a team of 1 scorer to Finals...yea he was that 1 scorer

So how does that not make sense to you? he is the best 'individually', he didnt have to develop nothin out of high school,he was top flight at everythng,including turning the ball over

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 07:56 PM
reason i talk about how little he is its because how can a lil guy carry same load or more and we talk about the NBA being a 'big mans' league right? thats why i bring up his size because he scored in everyway possible and mostly in paint under 6ft,amazing

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 08:03 PM
To me anytime you go against your entity/bosses rules and regulations and influence everybody of your time and then get exiled like he did in the end,just showed me how much revolution(change) he brought to the game, post JORDAN name me a bigger influence on league? he was the heir to JORDAN cuz of his natural talents,he was more talented than JORDAN, only one who could match him is WILT/SHAQ and possibly LEBRON but MJ/LEBRON couldnt match his natural skill set and plus he could have went professional in NBA/MLB/NFL and played in each league at AllPro/AllNBA level yrly like he did for 12strait in NBA

So we just have diff. view on meaning,which is cool cuz im comfy with everything i say on a athlete who gets short stick cuz of a bs 'ship'

BARAZOV there wont ever be another IVERSON,ever and FAB 5 revolutionized baggy shorts,nothing wrong with that i rock'em when i ball

alitapa
09-28-2011, 08:13 PM
No they already have 2 ball hogs they don't need another one

i hope youre not talking about lebron who averages 8 assists a game as a 6'8 forward.

i see the idiotic posting controlled by the bias against heat from some fans is still going on during the lockout :facepalm:

bazarov
09-28-2011, 08:20 PM
BARAZOV there wont ever be another IVERSON,ever and FAB 5 revolutionized baggy shorts,nothing wrong with that i rock'em when i ball

I agree. That's the point. There won't ever be another Iverson. Teams are not looking for him. The league is not full of Iverson clones.

That's about the 12th time. I hope you understand now.

llemon
09-28-2011, 08:44 PM
To me anytime you go against your entity/bosses rules and regulations and influence everybody of your time and then get exiled like he did in the end,just showed me how much revolution(change) he brought to the game, post JORDAN name me a bigger influence on league? he was the heir to JORDAN cuz of his natural talents,he was more talented than JORDAN, only one who could match him is WILT/SHAQ and possibly LEBRON but MJ/LEBRON couldnt match his natural skill set and plus he could have went professional in NBA/MLB/NFL and played in each league at AllPro/AllNBA level yrly like he did for 12strait in NBA

Damn, not sure I've ever read a bigger bunch of yak manure in my life, other than politicians statements.

Hustlenomics
09-28-2011, 09:19 PM
^ You must not read your own posts then

llemon
09-28-2011, 09:36 PM
^ You must not read your own posts then

Hey, yuk it up everyone, Bustalanomey is now Henny Youngman.

That's right. Google it, YPDFs.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 09:48 PM
And just to think LLEMON been watching the NBA since 1962 and he has no clue that Donaghey is a rogue ref and everything is basically structured in politics ,from entertainment(SPORTS/MOVIES) to your local SHELL gas station, so as you see it was the 'politics' of the game that drove him out, not his actual bball game(aint that what you judge a player on,the season they play right? ...and i notice how nobody can answer my question i posted way way back about a player being a top 3 scorer(AI) then being told to come off bench in less than 5months after finishing behind the media darlings LEBRON/KOBE ...come on LLEMON i know you got the answer

Exactly HUSTLENOMICS, way to keep it all the way live, its funny because i dont really care for DUNCANS game but nobody can stop him and hes great PF if not the greatest,but when it comes to AI its like they look at fake off court overblown media garbage and him being a cancer but i have never heard of it from his teammates or coaches(who matter,not media made up secret sources)

And BAZAROV im saying a quote from a HOF coach who was there with him for 6yrs ''he said it wont never be another AI and i agree cuz of the load he shouldered at his size, he said he was 'unique' in how he always played hurt and never complained and played allout and did so much for the league globally..you cant duplicate a AI...where in the hell are you going to find somebody who got both at top flight right off top since inception

Bird could shoot, not athletic
Jordan was athletic, wasnt no 3pt shooter off top,mid game was decent
Magic wasnt top notch athlete or shooter, ran a team great
Kobe wasnt supremely athletic, good shooting skills and made it very deadly over time
Lebron is supreme athlete, skill set decent
Wade supreme athlete, improved drastically on shot since inception in NBA
IVERSON is a supreme athlete and had top notch pull up j/3shot/handle as a Junior in High School ..so to answer you question BAZAROV,you will never find a guy that has 'both' at 5star level, only IVERSON so tell WALL/ROSE/WESTBROOK and all those other athletic freaks to step they skill game up that i constantly hear the media/fans/ex players talk about, and also he could play the big 3 sports at allpro level,so there you have it

llemon
09-28-2011, 09:55 PM
And just to think LLEMON been watching the NBA since 1962 and he has no clue that Donaghey is a rogue ref and everything is basically structured in politics ,from entertainment(SPORTS/MOVIES) to your local SHELL gas station, so as you see it was the 'politics' of the game that drove him out, not his actual bball game(aint that what you judge a player on,the season they play right? ...and i notice how nobody can answer my question i posted way way back about a player being a top 3 scorer(AI) then being told to come off bench in less than 5months after finishing behind the media darlings LEBRON/KOBE ...come on LLEMON i know you got the answer

3rd,

Life can be a very cruel thing.

Sorry, and best wishes,
DOUBLE LL

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 10:08 PM
Trust me BAZAROV its a multi billion dollar biz so any team/gm/org. is looking for a player with the toughness/fearlessness/skillset/athletic ability and 'rockstar' merchandise selling ability all wrapped in 1 ala IVERSON but you and i agree they can never find somebody built like that, he would have to be a big man or big wing,not a undersize shooting guard and they wouldnt even be built like him,hes 1 of none

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 10:11 PM
It sure can LLEMON, thats why i take it for wat its worth and call a spade a spade and i figured since you been watching that long it would have already sparked something in you to know that but you dont gotta be 'sorry' its a sports debate,nothing more nothing less

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:13 PM
That's the cast you're putting out there? None of those guys have even been to a Finals. Evans is 6'6" and nowhere near as quick as Iverson. Westbrook is 6'4" and one of the better PG defenders in the game. Rose is 6'3" and a solid defender himself. And none of those guys are volume scorers like Iverson was counted on to be ... except Arenas and Ellis, neither of whom ever made even a conference Finals.
Yes, thats the cast who followed him. I couldnt care less if they havent reached a NBA Finals or Conference Finals, how does their careers have any negative effect on Iverson? The fact each guy became a star in the league is a good sign considering there weren't any guys like them being trusted to follow such a role.

Westbrook was a 6'3 scoring guard who didnt even start at UCLA. Same for Arenas at Arizona. In all honesty why would a NBA team draft them and put them at PG?

Although Evans is 6'6, why else would you trust a scoring guard to operate an offense as a PG?

These moves became commonplace considering this generation of guards grew up on watching Iverson and how he played. The drastic change in how PG's play coming up through the AAU/HS ranks is even more of a sign. If you follow college recruiting you'd notice the difference too.

How many PG's that come out are considered "pure PG's?" As in a guy very skilled at setting up and operating an offense through distribution, rather than using isolations to break down an offense to score or pass when a scoring opportunity isnt there. I mean this basically describes a lot of the PG's who have come out this past decade.

Although these guys can pass the ball, it seems as if the best ballhandler regardless of size or scoring mentality is being given the reigns as a PG to operate the offense. That could be a 30 PPG scorer in HS like Tyreke or a 40 PPG scorer in HS like Monta. They're being given the reigns to score as well as distribute. Now, few players are being trusted with having so much pressure put on them as Iverson did in Philadelphia except potentially Derrick Rose.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 10:16 PM
Right on point FRESNO

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:18 PM
I agree. That's the point. There won't ever be another Iverson. Teams are not looking for him. The league is not full of Iverson clones.

That's about the 12th time. I hope you understand now.

You'd be surprised how many NBA players who have come up patterned their game after Iverson. Now, they aren't anything like him as players but his influence is definetly visible with this generation.

Unlike, the premier swingman like Kobe. Only guy I've heard of who really patterned their game after him is Nick Young, now he isnt Kobe but he looks up to Kobe.

But.....the closest thing to Iverson I've ever seen is this kid Aquille Carr(Class of 2013). I've been watching him play for a few years and hes basically has all of Iverson's playing style/heart/passion but 4 inches shorter. Will be very interesting when he becomes a NBA prospect.

Also Nate Robinson really isnt that much like Iverson. He really is more of an amazing athlete playing basketball, than a talented basketball player for his size.

3RDASYSTEM
09-28-2011, 10:27 PM
Yo FRESNO does that kid Carr have that vertical and physical ability with the pull up J? If so then yea he will be

To me that seperate AI from the pack, he would take contact from a big man and still finish and catch alley oop dunks with passes from halfcourt and 3pt line(physical ability) and he had a stop on a dime pull up J, all the other stuff he possesses(speed/quick) was a bonus in my book,he lil so he supposed to be that but to be tip dunking and catching halfcourt passes for oop dunks in NBA live games is wat seperate him from a Nate Rob who is a ASweekend dunker

Yea Nate is amazing athlete but he's basically same height as AI so i used him as example for him having to shoulder a load if he had that type of ability,which he doesnt...people dont understand its hard to carry a franchise in any sports solo for 3-5yrs let alone 10 1/2 like he did in Philly

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:43 PM
Also, Iverson's legacy was tarnished by David Stern because Iverson ruined the NBA following Jordan's retirement. He is the reason for all of the negative claims about NBA players, they are all rooted directly into the way Iverson looked, played, & behaved off the court. If Iverson had never existed, the league would have never suffered such a negative drop off post-Jordan and would've thrived promoting Shaq/Kobe/Duncan/Vince/T-Mac/KG. Stern is a control freak, & he was responsible for having Dennis Rodman blackballed out of the NBA due to his even crazier antics. In this case Stern had no choice but to put up with it because Iverson's talent was too undeniable not to be a major fixture of the NBA.

In return Iverson was promoted as an uncontrollable player who couldn't fit into any system without being the "system", instead of simply being a great player.

Is this any different from Jordan? Kobe? Both guys were the "system" for their teams.

Would anyone believe if either guy changed teams that the only way they could be effective is to come off the bench? I dont think so.

Thanks to such media misinformation fans accepted the belief that the only way Iverson can be effective is either being a star who takes every shot, or being a 6th Man taking every shot on a defense oriented 2nd unit. The whole situation of him going to Detroit is by far one of the weirdest situations I have ever seen. A 26 PPG scorer going to a team and being told he had to come off the bench, to allow Rodney Stuckey(a shoot-first PG with limited passing ability) to play PG. The worst decision he ever made is not signing that extension Denver was offering because he'd still be in the league now and never had to deal with being "forced" into being a 6th Man despite scoring 26 PPG the previous year.

Just going through this thread shows what has happened to his legacy eventhough Iverson isnt the same player he once was.

- People still believe he will hog shots and ruin offensive flow off the bench in Miami.
- People believe he cant be a PG, although his Assist numbers are far superior than any other player available as a Free Agent

Nobody can invision Iverson playing any sort of productive role although he did just that in his last NBA tenure in Philadelphia. Where did he complain about not taking every shot? Where did he ruin their offensive flow? He came in with 0 knowledge of the system and did what was asked of him as a replacement role player. He left due to his daughters illness, but because hes Iverson nobody gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he left because he's "selfish" and "wanted to be the star".

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:46 PM
Yo FRESNO does that kid Carr have that vertical and physical ability with the pull up J? If so then yea he will be


Actually, yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrRm_7jN4dQ

Hes even more limited than Iverson considering his size, but he is an amazing player/athlete. He can dunk at 5'6.

bazarov
09-28-2011, 10:48 PM
I'm amazed that you two still haven't understood the point. DenButsu got it, so I must not be crazy.

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:51 PM
I'm amazed that you two still haven't understood the point. DenButsu got it, so I must not be crazy.

As in what?:confused:

Fresno
09-28-2011, 10:53 PM
3RD, check out the highlights on Aquille Carr.

He really is amazing to watch live considering hes already giving up 4-6 inches to the PG's hes facing.

bazarov
09-28-2011, 11:12 PM
As in what?:confused:

3RD is telling me all about how Iverson is so great. And while I agree, it's not exactly relevant to anything I've said.

You're talking about Tyreke Evans and Russell Westbrook as evidence of Iverson's impact on the game. What?

Also, of the guys you listed, none are stars in the league except Rose. Francis and Arenas had a few star-like years. The others are nice players, but that's it. And none have been to a Finals. If Iverson sent all these shockwaves through the league, they're barely noticeable. And I don't even accept the premise that Iverson paved the way for these guys or that these guys were drafted in the hopes of finding the next Iverson.

3RDASYSTEM
09-29-2011, 09:18 AM
Your obvious blind because last time i checked MELO/LEBRON rocked at one time or another braids/arm sleeve/headband and you know LEBRON idolized AI/JORAN/KOBE so i dont understand how you dont see the influence, the only prob is you trying to compare those players to AI,you cant compare nobody to IVERSON ..ever..anybody can try to mimmick/copy somebodys game (see KOBE to JORDAN),but that dont make you him so cut it out BAZAROV

Only reason why im talking how 'great' he is at his skillset(shootin&passing) because its all documented and he can shoot since day 1 and he's an underrated playmaker,so im just responding accordingly to the posts on here,whats the harm in that? Aint this a debate? Just read my posts and watch my vid links and you'll see he can shoot with the best of'em, rather it be wide open or creating a shot off dribble..he was top flight at it,the best by far

Who cares if none of'em was in Finals or stars, they all duplicated(or tried) his style/game in 1 form or another,Lebron is basically AI with just one more League MVP/Finals appearance on his resume..i didnt say he 'paved' the way, i said he 'influenced' many many,just look at WADE/LEBRON/MELO ...all AI influenced from the 'game' to the #3, to the arm sleeve/headband, so it seems to me you have a prob identifying ''a good role model'' from a guy who can influence/charisma/style, AI is the latter and his influence is leaguewide,why you think FRESNO hit it right on head and why are we still talking about a guy not even in the league right now? my bad i forget he legendary and easily top 3 of his time up there with SHAQ/DUNCAN(guys who had teams built around them from day 1,no developing yrs with those 3,especially SHAQ/IVERSON)

Im going to check it out FRESNO,good looking out