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Mile High Champ
09-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9)
10)


2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Chris Paul goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Dirk goes off the board, I will add other power forwards.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the top list.

SteBO
09-21-2011, 03:09 PM
This is a tough one. I think I'll wait on the arguments presented here before I make a decision.

MELO7NYK/DENfan
09-21-2011, 03:23 PM
Melo. He is going to have a good year this upcoming season.

Slimsim
09-21-2011, 03:24 PM
Melo

da ThRONe
09-21-2011, 03:57 PM
Melo easy. If he played both sides of the ball I would consider putting him top 3. He is the purest scoring the league right now IMO.

RZZZA
09-21-2011, 04:01 PM
ooh, tough call imo. I'm biased towards elite point guards but Deron didn't have a good year.

Carmelo gets my vote here.

TheRunKiller
09-21-2011, 04:01 PM
Melo
Stat
Williams

Da Knicks
09-21-2011, 04:04 PM
If Melo continues to play defense the way he played when he became a knick he makes a case for top 3. As for the moment he should of being picked a lil higher but this will be a good spot for him. I really hope there is a season because Melo will be changing a lot of peoples minds this next season. Deron will be my next pick since i had him above Rose in the pg battle. I really see both of these players jumping into the top 5 this upcoming season. Picks 6,7,8 should of not being placed in that order but i can live with it.

Kobe played more like the 9th best player this season, Durant is overhyped and will show it this season. Rose gets too much of the credit when the bulls have a pretty good team around him, they do lack a true sg or a big point guard that will let Rose score the ball.

Sox72
09-21-2011, 04:06 PM
How is Bynum on this list?

Swashcuff
09-21-2011, 04:08 PM
If Pau was available it would have been between him Melo and Deron here for me. It's tough because though Deron produced at a higher rate than was more valuable than Melo one can't overlook his issues with management and his perceived attitude problems this past season. This is a tough choice but I'm leaning towards Deron on this one.

ManningToTyree
09-21-2011, 04:20 PM
Melo because DWill had a down year

RZZZA
09-21-2011, 04:28 PM
If Pau was available it would have been between him Melo and Deron here for me. It's tough because though Deron produced at a higher rate than was more valuable than Melo one can't overlook his issues with management and his perceived attitude problems this past season. This is a tough choice but I'm leaning towards Deron on this one.

If we go by PER then Melo's was better.

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 04:48 PM
wow...

DoMeFavors
09-21-2011, 04:53 PM
I went with Deron Williams

Melo is a great scorer, Deron is a good scorer
Melo is a bad defender, Deron is a good defender
Melo is an okay passer, Deron is a great passer

Deron wins over Melo

Bruno
09-21-2011, 04:57 PM
This is tough. I think D-Will is the best player left, but he stunk it up last year because of various circumstances. I'd lean Melo here. Real question with Carmelo is what does he do in his first full year and a Knick and does he keep up the obscene three point percentage he shot with the orange and blue.

SteBO
09-21-2011, 05:01 PM
I think I'll go Carmelo here. He went to NY and shot lights out for the rest of the year, particularly from three as Bruno mentioned. Whether he keeps it up entering next season is another question, but for now, Melo gets my vote.

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:26 PM
Deron Williams was the only pg to average 20 and 10 and when he got to Jersey he started averaging 12ast per on sheer talent because he didnt know any of the players or the system. It was chaos. Not to mention he was also playing injured.

Most media outlets agree that he is a top 7 player and here you have Carmelo voted above him? Wow.. only on PSD.. Amare over Deron maybe cuz Amare is a beast but Melo is overrated and always has been.

EDIT: And before a Knicks fan comes in trolling, NO i didnt want Melo in Jersey. Melo is overrated and i only wanted NJ to make the trade so that we could get on with our season and stop sucking. I am a basketball before a Nets fan and i wanted Melo only cuz i was sick of my team losing so much because of distractions and drama and Carmelo was the only star available at the time. Melo is overrated

mightybosstone
09-21-2011, 05:27 PM
Deron Williams is the best player left. I love how everyone rips him for having an "off year," but the guy still averaged 20 points and 10 assists a game, something that no other point guard even came close to, while being a top 5 defensive player at his position. Yes, Carmelo is a better scorer, but while D-Will may not have had his most efficient season, he's more efficient comparing both players' careers. He also boasts a higher WS/48 over their careers. He just impacts the game in more ways than Melo does.

Bottom line, if I'm starting a team and I had to pick between the two, I'm taking Williams.

Swashcuff
09-21-2011, 05:28 PM
Deron Williams was the only pg to average 20 and 10 and when he got to Jersey he started averaging 12ast per on sheer talent because he didnt know any of the players or the system. It was chaos. Not to mention he was also playing injured.

Most media outlets agree that he is a top 7 player and here you have Carmelo voted above him? Wow.. only on PSD.. Amare over Deron maybe cuz Amare is a beast but Melo is overrated and always has been.

EDIT: And before a Knicks fan comes in trolling, NO i didnt want Melo in Jersey. Melo is overrated and i only wanted NJ to make the trade so that we could get on with our season and stop sucking. I am a basketball before a Nets fan and i wanted Melo only cuz i was sick of my team losing so much because of distractions and drama and Carmelo was the only star available at the time. Melo is overrated

Totally off topic but I think this is something you'd like a whole lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJpz66cME0&feature=player_embedded#!

Swashcuff
09-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Deron Williams is the best player left. I love how everyone rips him for having an "off year," but the guy still averaged 20 points and 10 assists a game, something that no other point guard even came close to, while being a top 5 defensive player at his position. Yes, Carmelo is a better scorer, but while D-Will may not have had his most efficient season, he's more efficient comparing both players' careers. He also boasts a higher WS/48 over their careers. He just impacts the game in more ways than Melo does.

Bottom line, if I'm starting a team and I had to pick between the two, I'm taking Williams.

I'm not one who is ripping him but he didn't produce the way he was expected to. Now this is because of 50 different reasons or what ever. It's scary to think how good he would have been had he been at 100% and been able to work things out for the best in Utah. Could have easily have the best season of his career thus far.

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:35 PM
Totally off topic but I think this is something you'd like a whole lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJpz66cME0&feature=player_embedded#!

Dude you are the man. That just put a huge grin in my face.. followed by...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4&feature=related


:D jk man thanks!!!

Swashcuff
09-21-2011, 05:40 PM
Dude you are the man. That just put a huge grin in my face.. followed by...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4&feature=related


:D jk man thanks!!!

If he really goes to NJ (Brooklyn) I highly doubt you'd be jkin when you post that vid :laugh2:

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:43 PM
If he really goes to NJ (Brooklyn) I highly doubt you'd be jkin when you post that vid :laugh2:

Your doubts are justified and 100% accurate good sir

mightybosstone
09-21-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm not one who is ripping him but he didn't produce the way he was expected to. Now this is because of 50 different reasons or what ever. It's scary to think how good he would have been had he been at 100% and been able to work things out for the best in Utah. Could have easily have the best season of his career thus far.

He was putting up career numbers in Utah before the trade, but he only got like 12 games in New Jersey to show what he can do, and he did it with inferior talent to what he had in Utah. And he was hurt for so much of the season, which certainly didn't do him any favors.

Over the course of a full season, I have no doubt in my mind that he will continue to put up elite numbers again in New Jersey. And if they could add another piece to that team, I think they could be pretty good.

THE GIPPER
09-21-2011, 05:48 PM
Deron Williams was the only pg to average 20 and 10 and when he got to Jersey he started averaging 12ast per on sheer talent because he didnt know any of the players or the system. It was chaos. Not to mention he was also playing injured.

Most media outlets agree that he is a top 7 player and here you have Carmelo voted above him? Wow.. only on PSD.. Amare over Deron maybe cuz Amare is a beast but Melo is overrated and always has been.

EDIT: And before a Knicks fan comes in trolling, NO i didnt want Melo in Jersey. Melo is overrated and i only wanted NJ to make the trade so that we could get on with our season and stop sucking. I am a basketball before a Nets fan and i wanted Melo only cuz i was sick of my team losing so much because of distractions and drama and Carmelo was the only star available at the time. Melo is overrated

Melo is better than amare

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:49 PM
He was putting up career numbers in Utah before the trade, but he only got like 12 games in New Jersey to show what he can do, and he did it with inferior talent to what he had in Utah. And he was hurt for so much of the season, which certainly didn't do him any favors.

Over the course of a full season, I have no doubt in my mind that he will continue to put up elite numbers again in New Jersey. And if they could add another piece to that team, I think they could be pretty good.

Agreed. Its good to see an intelligent fan that doesnt live in the moment. People have always underrated Deron cuz he played in Utah and people barely watched him play. Casual fans love their scorers so i can see how people can vote for Melo but they are simply wrong. Deron Williams is widely regarded as a top 7-8 talent in the NBA while Melo is regarded 9-11. Only in PSD can people vote melo in the top 8-9

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:50 PM
Melo is better than amare

I dont think so but that only my opinion. Ive always liked Amare

mightybosstone
09-21-2011, 05:54 PM
Agreed. Its good to see an intelligent fan that doesnt live in the moment. People have always underrated Deron cuz he played in Utah and people barely watched him play. Casual fans love their scorers so i can see how people can vote for Melo but they are simply wrong. Deron Williams is widely regarded as a top 7-8 talent in the NBA while Melo is regarded 9-11. Only in PSD can people vote melo in the top 8-9

Oh, I've seen him play, far too much if you ask me. As a Rockets fan, there is nothing I hate more than the Utah Jazz. Nothing. I hate mushrooms with a passion, but if someone asked me to eat an entire bucket of mushrooms or the Jazz would win an NBA championship, I would eat the crap out of them.

And as someone who has hated D-Will for years now, I've learned to really respect his game. He's almost unguardable by 90 percent of point guards and he towers over most points defensively. People forget that before this season, there was always a lively debate between he and Paul for the "best point guard" discussion and it normally ended up 1A. Paul, 1B. Williams. One season playing with poorer talent, dealing with a trade in the middle of the year and and injury which made him miss a good portion does not diminish his abilities, in my mind.

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 05:56 PM
Oh, I've seen him play, far too much if you ask me. As a Rockets fan, there is nothing I hate more than the Utah Jazz. Nothing. I hate mushrooms with a passion, but if someone asked me to eat an entire bucket of mushrooms or the Jazz would win an NBA championship, I would eat the crap out of them.

And as someone who has hated D-Will for years now, I've learned to really respect his game. He's almost unguardable by 90 percent of point guards and he towers over most points defensively. People forget that before this season, there was always a lively debate between he and Paul for the "best point guard" discussion and it normally ended up 1A. Paul, 1B. Williams. One season playing with poorer talent, dealing with a trade in the middle of the year and and injury which made him miss a good portion does not diminish his abilities, in my mind.

I couldnt have said it better. You rest my case :D

Avenged
09-21-2011, 06:51 PM
Pau Gasol.

But since he's not an option i'll go with Deron Williams, followed by Amare.

Baller1
09-21-2011, 07:11 PM
D-Will. Then Amare to round it off I think... I'm not sure. It's close for #10.

bholly
09-21-2011, 07:41 PM
D-Will here, and to be honest I'm surprised it's so close. I thought D-Will was considered by PSD to be amongst the highest elite?

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 07:57 PM
D-Will here, and to be honest I'm surprised it's so close. I thought D-Will was considered by PSD to be amongst the highest elite?

He was but PSD is a live in the moment type.. smh an elite 20 and 10 pg being debated with an overrated scorer :pity:

Knicks21
09-21-2011, 08:03 PM
Melo slightly improved from Last Year.
Deron did not.
And yet somehow Deron surpasses him, considering last years poll, smh.
Vote Melo, only reason i can see him not winning the 9th spot is because he plays for the Knicks.

Avenged
09-21-2011, 08:04 PM
D-Will here, and to be honest I'm surprised it's so close. I thought D-Will was considered by PSD to be amongst the highest elite?

Definitely is but an "off" season will have it's bumps and bruises.

I usually have him in the 5-7 range but I think #9 is perfect for him for the past season.

Avenged
09-21-2011, 08:08 PM
Melo improved from Last Year.
Deron did not.
And yet somehow Deron surpasses him, considering last years poll, smh.
Vote Melo, only reason i can see him not winning the 9th spot is because he plays for the Knicks.

Melo improved? He was on par with his 09-10 season. You can probably make a case that his 09-10 season was stronger if you look closely.

Knicks21
09-21-2011, 08:09 PM
Melo improved? He was on par with his 09-10 season. You can probably make a case that his 09-10 season was stronger if you look closely.

Point taken I didn't really look into it to much, was only comparing what i could remember from TV when Deron was on the Nets and Melo on the Knicks, was on my phone, edited. Still, I feel some people may just vote Deron with a legitimate case, whilst other will just vote for him because melo plays for the knicks.

Avenged
09-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Point taken I didn't really look into it to much, was only comparing what i could remember from TV when Deron was on the Nets and Melo on the Knicks, was on my phone, edited. Still, I feel some people may just vote Deron with a legitimate case, whilst other will just vote for him because melo plays for the knicks.

Oh alright.

But what does Melo being on the Knicks have anything to do with it? He's getting plenty of votes here. I actually think Amare has more of a case to be ahead of Melo going off of last season, and he's a Knick.

juno10
09-21-2011, 08:43 PM
when deron was acquired it was seen as if prokorov tricked the knicks to bid high on melo so they could sweep in to take deron instead, and i bet many knick fans were pissed and probably wished they had deron instead. not now though their love for melo is too much now even though deron has a much better impact on the game.

Mishmin
09-21-2011, 08:54 PM
Don't forget it was Amare, not Melo, that totally turned around the knicks. I think Amare is the higher impact player.

ManningToTyree
09-21-2011, 08:54 PM
I went with Deron Williams

Melo is a great scorer, Deron is a good scorer
Melo is a bad defender, Deron is a good defender
Melo is an okay passer, Deron is a great passer

Deron wins over Melo

Because those are the only things that decide how good a player is :rolleyes:

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 09:14 PM
DWill is the second best pg in the NBA even thou DRose was got that on the PSD poll and he was at one point debated as better than Paul. Melo is a ball stopper and a horrible teammate. He is so overrated. I like Amare a lot more than Melo as a player.

tredigs
09-21-2011, 09:27 PM
D. Will is definitely a better all around player than 'Melo, I have no doubt about this personally. Deron's just a more productive, more efficient, and much more solid 2 way player who's going to be both the composed general of the team (full game) in either the regular season or playoffs (where we saw that he's capable of leading the post-season in assists while still averaging 21-25 a game. Out of a point, that's incredible). Some weak shooting numbers during 10 games he had in Jersey (along with 12+ assists every night) does nothing to change that.

Also, what is this talk from certain Knicks fans about Melo being solid defensively during his tenure there. This is a joke, right? He was as porous as ever. And opponents production on him actually went up, not down (playing alongside other weak defenders in a run 'n gun doesn't help - no doubt).

Again - Deron quite easily here for me - followed by Melo>Amare<Pau (first error I've seen to this point).

Avenged
09-21-2011, 09:41 PM
D. Will is definitely a better all around player than 'Melo, I have no doubt about this personally. Deron's just a more productive, more efficient, and much more solid 2 way player who's going to be both the composed general of the team (full game) in either the regular season or playoffs (where we saw that he's capable of leading the post-season in assists while still averaging 21-25 a game. Out of a point, that's incredible). Some weak shooting numbers during 10 games he had in Jersey (along with 12+ assists every night) does nothing to change that.

Also, what is this talk from certain Knicks fans about Melo being solid defensively during his tenure there. This is a joke, right? He was as porous as ever. And opponents production on him actually went up, not down (playing alongside other weak defenders in a run 'n gun doesn't help - no doubt).

Again - Deron quite easily here for me - followed by Melo>Amare<Pau (first error I've seen to this point).

Agreed. But I would have Amare slightly ahead of Melo going by the past season. I have no problems with Melo going ahead though but Amare turned the Knicks franchise around and is more efficient.

KnicksorBust
09-21-2011, 10:10 PM
Deron can score, defend, and makes his teammates better. Manu close 2nd.

KnicksorBust
09-21-2011, 10:13 PM
D. Will is definitely a better all around player than 'Melo, I have no doubt about this personally. Deron's just a more productive, more efficient, and much more solid 2 way player who's going to be both the composed general of the team (full game) in either the regular season or playoffs (where we saw that he's capable of leading the post-season in assists while still averaging 21-25 a game. Out of a point, that's incredible). Some weak shooting numbers during 10 games he had in Jersey (along with 12+ assists every night) does nothing to change that.

Also, what is this talk from certain Knicks fans about Melo being solid defensively during his tenure there. This is a joke, right? He was as porous as ever. And opponents production on him actually went up, not down (playing alongside other weak defenders in a run 'n gun doesn't help - no doubt).

Again - Deron quite easily here for me - followed by Melo>Amare<Pau (first error I've seen to this point).

It's what have you done for me lately that counts for a lot of people and that means the playoffs. He did a very very good job on Pierce and he rebounded the hell out of the ball that series That went a long way with Knicks fans.

Chill_Will_24
09-21-2011, 10:14 PM
Deron can score, defend, and makes his teammates better. Manu close 2nd.

Manu is not better than Melo.. Amare maybe

KnicksorBust
09-21-2011, 10:19 PM
Manu is not better than Melo.. Amare maybe

Great point. Oh wait you didn't even make one. :laugh:

WHAT makes Carmelo better?? That Melo is a worse passer than Manu? Or that he's a less effecient scorer? Or that over the course of a season Melo takes off more plays? Melo commands the ball more taking his teammates out of rhythm? Melo plays worse defense?

Swashcuff
09-21-2011, 10:24 PM
Great point. Oh wait you didn't even make one. :laugh:

WHAT makes Carmelo better?? That Melo is a worse passer than Manu? Or that he's a less effecient scorer? Or that over the course of a season Melo takes off more plays? Melo commands the ball more taking his teammates out of rhythm? Melo plays worse defense?

What I always look at when comparing any top player to Manu is the though of Manu being in their role. How would a team of Manu being the main offensive threat and clear cut best player fair? Would he suffer from the burden of more minutes and a greater role in the team?

Take Melo's Nuggets for instance how would they fair with Manu at the helm and say Corey Maggette at the SF. I just don't think Manu is capable of taking his game to that level without the support of a great system and a great cast of players.

I know it's purely hypothetical but IMO it's also putting Manu's prowess into perspective a bit. I've heard some say that Manu is a top 5 SG All Time already (he's after all top 12 all time in RS WS/48) and I wonder what would Manu do if he was asked to do more.

Ovratd1up
09-21-2011, 10:25 PM
I also don't think it's very close. Deron is in control of almost every game in a way that Melo only shows glimpses of, and Melo can only do it individually, while Deron almost always makes everybody around him better. Add in the fact that Deron is a better defender, and scores only a few points less while being more efficient. Mr. Williams here.

Knicks21
09-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Votes could go either way really. It's just a matter of Personal Preference, both players deserve to have that 9th spot.

Sinestro
09-21-2011, 10:34 PM
For this year Melo wins just because of how he played after joining the Knicks, Deron struggled but any other year I would put Deron ahead

mavwar53
09-21-2011, 10:39 PM
As much as I don't like him I'd have to go with Melo here.

pito6079
09-21-2011, 10:56 PM
Deron Williams is a elite pg and he make players better. Carmelo is an elite player but not in the level of Deron

pito6079
09-21-2011, 10:56 PM
Manu is not better than Melo.. Amare maybe

Agree with this

Chronz
09-21-2011, 11:31 PM
So whats the case against Manu? Hes a legit 2 way player who just won the most games in the West.

29$JerZ
09-21-2011, 11:56 PM
From the remaining players I think I actually would vote for Amare or Manu before I go with Deron after giving it more thought.
Derons down year with multiple problems and Melo only really improving on 3pt% isn't much of a case to vote them ahead of Amare or Manus importance to their teams success IMO. Can anyone make s good case for either of the players before I vote?

ragee
09-22-2011, 12:35 AM
Giving D-Will the lead over Melo, man, that vote felt so good! :D

THE GIPPER
09-22-2011, 01:33 AM
So whats the case against Manu? Hes a legit 2 way player who just won the most games in the West.

Oh did he? Well if you're going to give him that much credit by saying that HE (not the spurs as a team) won the most games in the nba then you cannot ignore that HE lost 4-2 to the number 8 seed in the first round.

Chronz
09-22-2011, 03:53 AM
Oh did he? Well if you're going to give him that much credit by saying that HE (not the spurs as a team) won the most in the nba then you cannot ignore that HE lost 4-2 to the number 8 seed in the first round.
Yes consider everything, is there a case against him vs these guys? Surely winning the West counts for something.

Baller1
09-22-2011, 04:12 AM
It's weird to me to think of Manu as a top player, but at the same time, I actually might consider it.

MJ-BULLS
09-22-2011, 04:28 AM
Deron.

Nyc4You
09-22-2011, 05:20 AM
Lmao your gonna rank some1 who didn't play most of the season above melo. smh..... Psd srsly has something against knick players lmao.

Nyc4You
09-22-2011, 05:21 AM
Manu better than amare? was manu being talked about as an mvp candidate during the first half of the season? i dont think so

Chronz
09-22-2011, 05:50 AM
Manu better than amare? was manu being talked about as an mvp candidate during the first half of the season? i dont think so
MVP credentials have their place, any comments on their games?

EDIT) LOL upon checking the stats, Manu got more MVP pub than Amare last year.

Chronz
09-22-2011, 05:54 AM
It's weird to me to think of Manu as a top player, but at the same time, I actually might consider it.

Their first round flameout doesnt help his case but in an odd way it should. Without Manu the team that won the most games in the conference was incapable of beating the 8th seed without their 2nd best player.

Manu on a broken elbow or whatever it was still put up a PER above 22 in the playoffs. His stats havent taken a hit in years so hes not showing any signs of slowing down yet. Hes a proven winner and clutch to boot, hes inconsistent and doesnt play heavy minutes but if your trying to win a playoff game Manu is one of the few guys you would trust.

juno10
09-22-2011, 08:08 AM
ooh, tough call imo. I'm biased towards elite point guards but Deron didn't have a good year.

Carmelo gets my vote here.

the only point guard your biased towards is derrick rose : p

xxdc2tegxx
09-22-2011, 11:02 AM
The talent level/disparity --while NOT huge---is still enough for me to vote Deron over Carmelo for the number 9 spot. Meaning although Deron did regress a little and Carmelo possibly improved, that alone doesn't put MELO on top imo. If this was a debate over let's say DWADE and CP3 where the talent level/disparity gap is much closer, then obviously its a harder decision.

Deron for sure...

Melo and Amare are top 15 and might sneak into top 10 on this list but to put them over DWILLS?! (who is and has ALWAYS been labeled a legit franchise player--something melo and stoudermire are only borderline with).

Swashcuff
09-22-2011, 11:04 AM
Lmao your gonna rank some1 who didn't play most of the season above melo. smh..... Psd srsly has something against knick players lmao.

I don't comprehend. Who didn't play most of the season?

Swashcuff
09-22-2011, 11:10 AM
Their first round flameout doesnt help his case but in an odd way it should. Without Manu the team that won the most games in the conference was incapable of beating the 8th seed without their 2nd best player.

Manu on a broken elbow or whatever it was still put up a PER above 22 in the playoffs. His stats havent taken a hit in years so hes not showing any signs of slowing down yet. Hes a proven winner and clutch to boot, hes inconsistent and doesnt play heavy minutes but if your trying to win a playoff game Manu is one of the few guys you would trust.

I can't disagree with any of this but what about building a franchise around? Would I want Manu as one of the top 10 players in that regard? I know that's an entirely different question but IMO despite his great statistical production I don't really see him as the type of player I would want to lead my team as "The Man".

Great closer, solid defensive player one of the best two way players in all of basketball quite honestly but I don't think he's capable of leading a team night in night out as his #s may suggest. For the record I don't see what he did as a member of the Spurs this past season as being "The Man". They had a great team and despite TD's decline he was still their anchor on D.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-22-2011, 11:10 AM
If Melo continues to play defense the way he played when he became a knick he makes a case for top 3. As for the moment he should of being picked a lil higher but this will be a good spot for him. I really hope there is a season because Melo will be changing a lot of peoples minds this next season. Deron will be my next pick since i had him above Rose in the pg battle. I really see both of these players jumping into the top 5 this upcoming season. Picks 6,7,8 should of not being placed in that order but i can live with it.

Kobe played more like the 9th best player this season, Durant is overhyped and will show it this season. Rose gets too much of the credit when the bulls have a pretty good team around him, they do lack a true sg or a big point guard that will let Rose score the ball.

Melo played awful defense on the knicks.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-22-2011, 11:13 AM
Melo is better than amare

no

D-Leethal
09-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Melo played awful defense on the knicks.

that just simply ain't true. Hes no all world defender but his tenacity/effort/execution was much better than advertised and you never heard any Knick fans complain about his D..........Amare on the other hand....

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 02:13 PM
Melo played awful defense on the knicks.

I didn't watch every game in DEN so I can only speak of seeing him play in NY every game.

His defense was solid and at times really good. He also had some lackadaisical stretches on D, but he showed he can be a lock down defender, a deadly 3 pt shooter and a good passer. Now maybe he was just extra motivated to be in NY... we'll see if it lasts but I would have no problem admitting if his defense was bad.

mightybosstone
09-22-2011, 02:30 PM
I love Manu Ginobili as a player, but I don't believe he deserves top 10 consideration. He's an incredibly efficient scorer, a pesky defender who is always near the top in offensive fouls drawn, he takes over games in the fourth quarter and he's a very strong passer. So why not top 10? Minutes.

Minutes per game might not seem like a fair way to determine a player's worth, but I think it says something about a player who is clearly elite but plays 5-7 fewer minutes EVERY night than the other elite players in the league. The guy has only averaged 30+ MPG twice in his entire career, and I do think his PER and WS/48 benefit from playing fewer minutes. And he's never taken as significant bulk of the scoring load as the other guys on this list.

Personally, if were doing a top 15, I think he cracks the list. My next seven players would be....

9. Deron Williams
10. Pau Gasol
11. Paul Pierce
12. Carmelo Anthony
13. Amare Stoudemire
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Russell Westbrook

Da Knicks
09-22-2011, 02:32 PM
Melo played awful defense on the knicks.


:clap: The biggest Melo hater! i knew you would show up, watch some knick games before you bash Melo...:facepalm:

P Styles
09-22-2011, 02:33 PM
Deron, then Carmelo.

JordansBulls
09-22-2011, 02:47 PM
Deron beat Melo when Melo had HCA and when Deron had 2 starters injured for the series.

29$JerZ
09-22-2011, 02:53 PM
Deron beat Melo when Melo had HCA and when Deron had 2 starters injured for the series.

I thought this was about last season and not the past.

Dirk had the #1 Seed and lost to the 8th seed Golden State Warriors
That's not held against him on this poll.....

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-22-2011, 02:55 PM
:clap: The biggest Melo hater! i knew you would show up, watch some knick games before you bash Melo...:facepalm:

According to synergy stats (read it in the NBA statistics forum) his opponents production went up when he was playing with the knicks.

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 02:59 PM
According to synergy stats (read it in the NBA statistics forum) his opponents production went up when he was playing with the knicks.

Defense is something that has to be seen with your own eyes... i don't think theres any stat out there that can really say if a defender is good or not.

There are sooo many variables other than how much his opponents scored.


if you watched every game melo played in NY like i did i guarantee you that you wouldnt be saying his defense was awful...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-22-2011, 03:01 PM
Defense is something that has to be seen with your own eyes... i don't think theres any stat out there that can really say if a defender is good or not.

There are sooo many variables other than how much his opponents scored.


if you watched every game melo played in NY like i did i guarantee you that you wouldnt be saying his defense was awful...

You are watching the games with your homer-glasses.

At least statistics are not biased like people.

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 03:11 PM
You are watching the games with your homer-glasses.

At least statistics are not biased like people.

lol ok buddy, if you say so. i have never had a problem criticizing my own players... read all my posts on here. if i was a homer i would have been voting melo and amare all day on these polls...

Chacarron
09-22-2011, 03:25 PM
My vote goes to Amare.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 03:25 PM
lol ok buddy, if you say so. i have never had a problem criticizing my own players... read all my posts on here. if i was a homer i would have been voting melo and amare all day on these polls...

ok then, if your not a biased NY fan then give me your opinion on why Melo is better than Deron Williams?

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 05:48 PM
ok then, if your not a biased NY fan then give me your opinion on why Melo is better than Deron Williams?

You've seen me post alot, so I'm surprised you would say that.

You can make a case for Melo, Deron, maybe even Amare in this spot. It's not being a homer just because I voted Melo. Because I didn't vote Melo til the #8 spot.

Why Melo? He can take over and completely dominate a game, he's one of the better rebounding SF's in the league, and in NY he played good defense and was deadly from 3. Melo is just a notch below Durant IMO who went 7.

GREATNESS ONE
09-22-2011, 05:59 PM
hahaha whp should I vote for ??? It's soo close.

VCaintdead17
09-22-2011, 06:38 PM
I prefer my players to have an all around game :cool:

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 07:25 PM
You've seen me post alot, so I'm surprised you would say that.

You can make a case for Melo, Deron, maybe even Amare in this spot. It's not being a homer just because I voted Melo. Because I didn't vote Melo til the #8 spot.

Why Melo? He can take over and completely dominate a game, he's one of the better rebounding SF's in the league, and in NY he played good defense and was deadly from 3. Melo is just a notch below Durant IMO who went 7.

I didnt say your biased bro. Your one of my fav Knicks fan along with Slimsim

I just dont agree with you here. No disrespect but i think Melo is more than a notch below Durant. I also think he is too one dimensional and a ball stopper. He needs a system built around him. Deron needs none of that. He came to Nets and without knowing the system or any of NJs crappy players started dishing out 12ast per game and making the whole team better, with a bad wrist that needed surgery i should add. I dont think people here appreciate how hard of a feat that was. He is an amazing player and im surprised PSD has such short memory. Not too long ago Deron was considered 1b in the pg rankings and now ranked 9th by PSD? Thats crazy!

EDIT: You you gonna be at the garden for the Cotto fight? You know we boricuas gotta be there to represent! :D

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 07:28 PM
Something i noticed is a lot of Bulls fans voting Melo... They will never admit this but they know in their hearts Deron is better than Rose despite the fact that they flooded the PG poll and got Rose the #2 spot. I know what they are doing here. They wanna put as much separation between Rose and Deron as possible. Pshhh they would vote Bynum ahead of Deron as long as he is far away from Rose.

Just an observation

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 07:30 PM
I didnt say your biased bro. Your one of my fav Knicks fan along with Slimsim

I just dont agree with you here. No disrespect but i think Melo is more than a notch below Durant. I also think he is too one dimensional and a ball stopper. He needs a system built around him. Deron needs none of that. He came to Nets and without knowing the system or any of NJs crappy players started dishing out 12ast per game and making the whole team better, with a bad wrist that needed surgery i should add. I dont think people here appreciate how hard of a feat that was. He is an amazing player and im surprised PSD has such short memory. Not too long ago Deron was considered 1b in the pg rankings and now ranked 9th by PSD? Thats crazy!

EDIT: You you gonna be at the garden for the Cotto fight? You know we boricuas gotta be there to represent! :D

Hey fair enough, like i said you can't go wrong with either one in this spot. Which is probably why the voting is so close. I guess it depends what you value more. Right now, even though there are alot of great PG's, the true title contenders are still built around swingmen for the most part. So personally I go with Melo. The only team good/great team built around a PG is CHI.

Nah I don't watch boxing much, im mainly baseball n basketball.

juno10
09-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Something i noticed is a lot of Bulls fans voting Melo... They will never admit this but they know in their hearts Deron is better than Rose despite the fact that they flooded the PG poll and got Rose the #2 spot. I know what they are doing here. They wanna put as much separation between Rose and Deron as possible. Pshhh they would vote Bynum ahead of Deron as long as he is far away from Rose.

Just an observation

not sure about all bulls fans but some for sure are and i noticed it too *hint one of them is on the first page*. not just deron either anyone that is a threat in nba rankings to rose "durant" "dwight,some say true MVP" and also the biggest one lebron who is the biggest threat to rose's chip. some try to underrate them to make them selves feel better *cough* jordanbulls* this stuff should be a case study:D

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Hey fair enough, like i said you can't go wrong with either one in this spot. Which is probably why the voting is so close. I guess it depends what you value more. Right now, even though there are alot of great PG's, the true title contenders are still built around swingmen for the most part. So personally I go with Melo. The only team good/great team built around a PG is CHI.

Nah I don't watch boxing much, im mainly baseball n basketball.

Thats not correct. They are a great regular season team but they will never succeed built as is. Rose is a scorer and a good player but he is not good enough to build a team around because he doesnt make players better. He needs serious help.

Do you realize that if it was CP3 in the place of Rose, the Bulls would have smashed the Heat and beat Dallas for the title? Thats hypothetical obviously but im just trying to put it in perspective.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 07:46 PM
not sure about all bulls fans but some for sure are and i noticed it too *hint one of them is on the first page*. not just deron either anyone that is a threat in nba rankings to rose "durant" "dwight,some say true MVP" and also the biggest one lebron who is the biggest threat to rose's chip. some try to underrate them to make them selves feel better *cough* jordanbulls* this stuff should be a case study:D

RZZZA and RunKiller those are the two obvious ones but there are a lot of Bulls fans voting Melo and its no coincidence :laugh2:

:rolleyes: Like it matters what PSD thinks.

MagicBucsSox
09-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Why us Derrick rise on here when Westbrook is a better player?

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 07:59 PM
Why us Derrick rise on here when Westbrook is a better player?

Why do you think Westy is better? I think they are pretty even. I think Westbrook can be better than Rose so im curious to hear your opinion

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 08:27 PM
Thats not correct. They are a great regular season team but they will never succeed built as is. Rose is a scorer and a good player but he is not good enough to build a team around because he doesnt make players better. He needs serious help.

Do you realize that if it was CP3 in the place of Rose, the Bulls would have smashed the Heat and beat Dallas for the title? Thats hypothetical obviously but im just trying to put it in perspective.

I completely agree, thats why I put "good / great" because I think they fall somewhere in the middle but I don't see them as true contenders the way they are built. I'm just not sure you can win built around a PG in the NBA today. Maybe if you have CP3 surrounded by 3 or 4 borderline all-stars like DET had. but most of the contenders are built around wingmen.

Ovratd1up
09-22-2011, 08:33 PM
Why do you think Westy is better? I think they are pretty even. I think Westbrook can be better than Rose so im curious to hear your opinion

Really? Pretty much all evidence point to the opposite.

Knicks21
09-22-2011, 08:55 PM
Thats not correct. They are a great regular season team but they will never succeed built as is. Rose is a scorer and a good player but he is not good enough to build a team around because he doesnt make players better. He needs serious help.

Do you realize that if it was CP3 in the place of Rose, the Bulls would have smashed the Heat and beat Dallas for the title? Thats hypothetical obviously but im just trying to put it in perspective.

Bulls would have lacked offence if Cp3 was replaced with Rose, not a good idea. Rose is the best point guard for that team.

Knicks21
09-22-2011, 08:57 PM
I completely agree, thats why I put "good / great" because I think they fall somewhere in the middle but I don't see them as true contenders the way they are built. I'm just not sure you can win built around a PG in the NBA today. Maybe if you have CP3 surrounded by 3 or 4 borderline all-stars like DET had. but most of the contenders are built around wingmen.

The Bulls are the model for building a contender, the built there team with draft picks, give them a player like Courtney Lee and they are favourites imo.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 09:08 PM
Bulls would have lacked offence if Cp3 was replaced with Rose, not a good idea. Rose is the best point guard for that team.

CP3 creates offense. He wouldnt need to score 25per because all his teammates wouldve been that much beter with CP3 creating for them Ppl just dont understand how good that guy is. If your Knicks get him you guys will be unstoppable. I hope you do. Even thou im a Nets fan i wouldnt be able to help but attend some Knicks games if the Nets are sucking it up again.

As for Rose and the Bulls Rose doesnt make his team better like CP3 does. With Paul the offense would be spread out and the right play would always be made. Paul doesnt force things like Rose. Its the Bulls defense that wins them games. That defense is ridiculous.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 09:11 PM
The Bulls are the model for building a contender, the built there team with draft picks, give them a player like Courtney Lee and they are favourites imo.

Disagree. Great teams are not built around a scoring PG. I agree that a Lee type of SG would do wonders for them thou. If the amnesty thing goes thru Rip Hamilton would be available and that would be an amazing pickup for them

nycericanguy
09-22-2011, 09:25 PM
The Bulls are the model for building a contender, the built there team with draft picks, give them a player like Courtney Lee and they are favourites imo.

Boozer was a FA, and they got unbelievably lucky to get the #1 pick and draft Rose.

I wouldn't call them a model for building a team. They've done a good job, but minus that amazing luck in a draft where they had like a 4% chance to win the lottery, they would be pretty mediocre now. When a stud #1 pick falls into your lap, it tends to make you look pretty good.

And while they have a very good team, I think they overachieved somewhat last year and the Boozer contract means they are pretty tied into this team. Especially when they have to extend Rose with a MAX.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 09:44 PM
Boozer was a FA, and they got unbelievably lucky to get the #1 pick and draft Rose.

I wouldn't call them a model for building a team. They've done a good job, but minus that amazing luck in a draft where they had like a 4% chance to win the lottery, they would be pretty mediocre now. When a stud #1 pick falls into your lap, it tends to make you look pretty good.

And while they have a very good team, I think they overachieved somewhat last year and the Boozer contract means they are pretty tied into this team. Especially when they have to extend Rose with a MAX.

Completely agree.

On a different but similar note, call me crazy but if i was running the Bulls i would call up the Hornets and offer a straight up Rose for Paul swap. Paul would make the Bulls a favorite to take the trophy

29$JerZ
09-22-2011, 10:28 PM
I didnt say your biased bro. Your one of my fav Knicks fan along with Slimsim

I just dont agree with you here. No disrespect but i think Melo is more than a notch below Durant. I also think he is too one dimensional and a ball stopper. He needs a system built around him. Deron needs none of that. He came to Nets and without knowing the system or any of NJs crappy players started dishing out 12ast per game and making the whole team better, with a bad wrist that needed surgery i should add. I dont think people here appreciate how hard of a feat that was. He is an amazing player and im surprised PSD has such short memory. Not too long ago Deron was considered 1b in the pg rankings and now ranked 9th by PSD? Thats crazy!

EDIT: You you gonna be at the garden for the Cotto fight? You know we boricuas gotta be there to represent! :D

That's a pretty unfair view of comparing Melo and Deron. A PG shoulders more responsibility than a SF who is suppose to score does.

Deron > Melo but going by last season a case can be said for Melo. Deron has to prove now his dominance as a PG wasn't just from Sloans system and Boozer. Paul has been doing it with inferior talent and Rose has finally caught up to Derons level IMO. Deron doesn't have all that much of a strong case over Melo and Amare and Manu IMO if we are going by last season.

Avenged
09-22-2011, 10:41 PM
Why us Derrick rise on here when Westbrook is a better player?

You can make the argument but Westbrook isn't really clear cut better or anything. Team success and a MVP will do that to a player, and rightfully so imo.

Chill_Will_24
09-22-2011, 11:23 PM
That's a pretty unfair view of comparing Melo and Deron. A PG shoulders more responsibility than a SF who is suppose to score does.

Deron > Melo but going by last season a case can be said for Melo. Deron has to prove now his dominance as a PG wasn't just from Sloans system and Boozer. Paul has been doing it with inferior talent and Rose has finally caught up to Derons level IMO. Deron doesn't have all that much of a strong case over Melo and Amare and Manu IMO if we are going by last season.

Are you kidding me right now? You got it the wrong way around. Boozer is a bum. Look at how poorly he played last season without Deron. As far as Sloan Deron said himself that Sloan's system held him back. Deron was the only 20 and 10 pg in the league. What does he have to prove?

MagicBucsSox
09-23-2011, 02:31 AM
Why do you think Westy is better? I think they are pretty even. I think Westbrook can be better than Rose so im curious to hear your opinion

I favor Westbrook bc their numbers are damn near similar across the board and Westbrook shares to load with a 30ppg player. He'll he's not the first option in OKC.

29$JerZ
09-23-2011, 08:52 AM
Are you kidding me right now? You got it the wrong way around. Boozer is a bum. Look at how poorly he played last season without Deron. As far as Sloan Deron said himself that Sloan's system held him back. Deron was the only 20 and 10 pg in the league. What does he have to prove?

That with lesser talent he is still elite. Paul and now Rose have proved that.
My point is he doesn't have an absolute lock at 9 because Amare and Manu have as strong a case as him. Actually based on last year I can say Amare was a better player than Deron.

P Styles
09-23-2011, 09:05 AM
If starting a brand new team tomorrow with these players available, I take Deron. He's simply too well rounded and makes everyone on his team better.

No shame for Melo and Amare falling to the 10-13 range.

Swashcuff
09-23-2011, 09:08 AM
I favor Westbrook bc their numbers are damn near similar across the board and Westbrook shares to load with a 30ppg player. He'll he's not the first option in OKC.

You do realize many of his numbers are similar because he plays with Durant and not in spite right? Durant also didn't score 30 this past season. Also if all you're looking at is basic numbers alone with no context then in that case Monta Ellis should be better than Manu, Al Jefferson better than Al Horford, Amar'e Stoudemire and Blake Griffin better than Dirk etc etc.

There are much more that goes into these rankings than just stats, if you analyze and comprehend the stats put them into the proper context and then take intangible worth, BBall IQ and defense into perspective there is no way you'd come out with Westbrook > Rose.

pebloemer
09-23-2011, 09:25 AM
That's a pretty unfair view of comparing Melo and Deron. A PG shoulders more responsibility than a SF who is suppose to score does.

Deron > Melo but going by last season a case can be said for Melo. Deron has to prove now his dominance as a PG wasn't just from Sloans system and Boozer. Paul has been doing it with inferior talent and Rose has finally caught up to Derons level IMO. Deron doesn't have all that much of a strong case over Melo and Amare and Manu IMO if we are going by last season.

I still don't understand why everbody seems to ignore previous seasons though. Players have great seasons, good seasons, sub par seasons, etc over the course of their career. Last season was a down season by Deron's standard, but the context of last season, added with the body of work prior to last season and the fact that Deron is clearly still in his prime, it doesn't weigh so heavily on my mind when evaluating the player. It matters for sure, but I don't think Deron should be evaluated solely on last season. Nor should any player.

Chill_Will_24
09-23-2011, 09:37 AM
I still don't understand why everbody seems to ignore previous seasons though. Players have great seasons, good seasons, sub par seasons, etc over the course of their career. Last season was a down season by Deron's standard, but the context of last season, added with the body of work prior to last season and the fact that Deron is clearly still in his prime, it doesn't weigh so heavily on my mind when evaluating the player. It matters for sure, but I don't think Deron should be evaluated solely on last season. Nor should any player.

Especially since he was playing injured, going thru internal drama with the coach, and then a change of team while his wife was due to have their child....

29$JerZ
09-23-2011, 09:38 AM
I still don't understand why everbody seems to ignore previous seasons though. Players have great seasons, good seasons, sub par seasons, etc over the course of their career. Last season was a down season by Deron's standard, but the context of last season, added with the body of work prior to last season and the fact that Deron is clearly still in his prime, it doesn't weigh so heavily on my mind when evaluating the player. It matters for sure, but I don't think Deron should be evaluated solely on last season. Nor should any player.

Rose and Dirk are ranked where they are at because of last season performance specifically.

I understand looking at the past to justify judgment today and agree Deron >Amare and Melo and Manu. My point is you can't use so much of the past years to argue where they rank right now. Rose is a top ten player because of last year, wasn't the case the year before. Deron down year was still surprisingly good which shows how good be is when healthy and without all the problems about what team he is on but Amare and Manu had great years last season as well.'Deron doesn't have an automatic spot here IMO. It's debatable.

pebloemer
09-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Rose and Dirk are ranked where they are at because of last season performance specifically.

I understand looking at the past to justify judgment today and agree Deron >Amare and Melo and Manu. My point is you can't use so much of the past years to argue where they rank right now. Rose is a top ten player because of last year, wasn't the case the year before. Deron down year was still surprisingly good which shows how good be is when healthy and without all the problems about what team he is on but Amare and Manu had great years last season as well.'Deron doesn't have an automatic spot here IMO. It's debatable.

Oh, its definitely not automatic, I'd agree there.

While this past season matters (Rose winning MVP while early on his development curve says massive things about the player he is today IMO; Dirk has been considered Top 5 in the past, and with his recent playoff surge, I'm not at all surprised about his bump in his rankings), I think it is dangerous to disregard earlier body of work all together. People fall in love with the statistical analysis of a single season and often many people vote solely on that, but every season occurs within a context. Looking at previous seasons, and previous success help us understand the context that surrounds a player better IMO.

I've said this in other threads before, but if you look at the positional rankings, you'll find names like Yao and Brand in the Top 10 following seasons where they hardly even played (or didn't play altogether). It is because a single season can't define a player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to say Kobe is a better player than LeBron due to his resume, when I know it is clear as day that LeBron has past Kobe as the best player in the game. But especially in close arguments like Deron/Melo/Manu/Amare etc (where much less differentiates what the can do on the court) - earlier body of work and context of this past season need to come into play. It is an interesting discussion. I wish Pau was in it too.

beasted86
09-23-2011, 12:44 PM
Scoring: Carmelo
Defense: Deron (but he's not good)
Passing: Deron
Rebounding per position: Carmelo
Intangibles: Carmelo

Plus Williams had an irregular year due to injury, so it's Carmelo Anthony here.

juno10
09-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Scoring: Carmelo
Defense: Deron (but he's not good)
Passing: Deron
Rebounding per position: Carmelo
Intangibles: Carmelo

Plus Williams had an irregular year due to injury, so it's Carmelo Anthony here.

intangibles melo?

Sadds The Gr8
09-23-2011, 12:49 PM
intangibles melo?

ikr?

mightybosstone
09-23-2011, 01:01 PM
It's a shame this thing has to stop at the top 10. It would be extremely interesting to see how a top 25 played out. How many PFs and PGs would make that list? When would Bynum start seeing consideration and would a third center crack the top 25? Would four Celtics crack the list?

I realize that we're just doing the top 10 for the sake of keeping an annual record of this, but would anyone else be in support of keeping this list going? I'd also be curious to see how it stacks up to ESPN's ongoing rankings.

OGMarkWahlberg
09-23-2011, 01:04 PM
Deron Williams, and he should be rated higher than 9 in my opinion

pebloemer
09-23-2011, 01:07 PM
It's a shame this thing has to stop at the top 10. It would be extremely interesting to see how a top 25 played out. How many PFs and PGs would make that list? When would Bynum start seeing consideration and would a third center crack the top 25? Would four Celtics crack the list?

I realize that we're just doing the top 10 for the sake of keeping an annual record of this, but would anyone else be in support of keeping this list going? I'd also be curious to see how it stacks up to ESPN's ongoing rankings.

I'd love to see the discussions go until 25. Not like we have actual basketball to discuss :(

Plus as we get further into the ranks, the difference between players becomes less obvious IMO - creating "entertaining" discussions.

Sox72
09-23-2011, 01:15 PM
If I was starting a team from scratch I'd take Amare over any of these guys. I'm surprised he's not getting much support. Wasn't he an MVP candidate for awhile this past season?

Sox72
09-23-2011, 01:32 PM
And HOW THE HELL IS BYNUM ON THIS LIST?!?!?!?

nycericanguy
09-23-2011, 01:34 PM
It's a shame this thing has to stop at the top 10. It would be extremely interesting to see how a top 25 played out. How many PFs and PGs would make that list? When would Bynum start seeing consideration and would a third center crack the top 25? Would four Celtics crack the list?

I realize that we're just doing the top 10 for the sake of keeping an annual record of this, but would anyone else be in support of keeping this list going? I'd also be curious to see how it stacks up to ESPN's ongoing rankings.

yea, being that there is a lockout i think we should go top 25.

beasted86
09-23-2011, 02:03 PM
intangibles melo?

When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

mightybosstone
09-23-2011, 02:05 PM
When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

False.

DoMeFavors
09-23-2011, 02:52 PM
When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

more players were added to that team then just Melo

sixer04fan
09-23-2011, 03:09 PM
MileHigh - let's take this to top 25

ldc62
09-23-2011, 03:46 PM
so far so good.

nycericanguy
09-23-2011, 03:53 PM
anyone else have ads on both sides of PSD now? :confused:

Da Knicks
09-23-2011, 04:44 PM
When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

Amen! :clap:

juno10
09-23-2011, 04:47 PM
When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

still didn't explain how he has more intangibles, and far greater really?

Swashcuff
09-23-2011, 06:16 PM
False.

x2 I mean seriously making the playoff is a team accomplishment. If that was a way to gauge a player's intangible worth then KG has none... :shrug:

Swashcuff
09-23-2011, 06:18 PM
Better all round player KG or Amar'e Stoudemire. Outside of the fact that Amar'e scores more and can play more minutes effectively what does he do better than Kevin Garnett? It's a shame that he won the #2 poll over Pau in all honesty.

Swashcuff
09-23-2011, 06:24 PM
Scoring: Carmelo
Defense: Deron (but he's not good)
Passing: Deron
Rebounding per position: Carmelo
Intangibles: Carmelo

Plus Williams had an irregular year due to injury, so it's Carmelo Anthony here.

This has to be one of the weirdest comparative analysis I've ever seen. Hell Immo do this same thing for Manu vs Melo.

Scoring: Melo
Defense: Manu (by a wide margin)
Passing: Manu (again by a wide margin)
Rebounding: Melo
Intangibles: Manu

Plus Manu was the best player on the best team in the Western Conference. By your reasoning Manu>Melo

hell lets do the same for Garnett vs Stoudemire

Scoring: Amar'e
Defense: Garnett (WIDE margin)
Passing: Garnett(WIDE margin)
Rebounding: Garnett
Intangibles: Garnett

Garnett is one of the best leaders in the entire NBA and a true defensive anchor, the only of his kind at the PF position.

So I think by your basis we can honestly say that by your basis we should take quite a few more players over Melo and Stoudemire.

Buz
09-23-2011, 06:33 PM
Melo.

tredigs
09-23-2011, 09:20 PM
When a guy hasn't missed 1 playoff his entire career including his rookie season where they go from 17 win lottery team to 43 win playoff team, that tells me a lot about his intangible effect. Carmelo's impact on an opponents defensive gameplan is far greater than Deron.

On the SURFACE, great argument.

Unfortunately, if you knew anything about the difference in those two teams you'd recognize that the reality is a far cry from what you think it is. Dig deeper - you're the King of misinformed-emphatic statements.