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links136
09-20-2011, 12:06 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG7.HTM

numbers say it all. discuss


edit: due to the fact the most valuable player award really means the captain of the best team award, this should be the indicator of the most underrated player in the NBA. Remember, this stat is relative to your team-mates first and foremost. Someone like Kobe will be lower on this stat due to the fact he has a bunch of terrific teammates in Paul Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Ron Artest.

ewmania
09-20-2011, 12:21 AM
if you cant get your team in the playoffs

MVP is pretty irrelevant... because the keyword is "value".. if you don't give your team a shot at a chip, you have no value

More-Than-Most
09-20-2011, 12:22 AM
You wont hear me disagree. As great as the guy is he is still underrated because people think his defense is by far worse then it is... Is it bad?Sure but its not as bad as people make it out to be. Some people don't even have him in the top 5 at his position which is also ********.

More-Than-Most
09-20-2011, 12:25 AM
if you cant get your team in the playoffs

MVP is pretty irrelevant... because the keyword is "value".. if you don't give your team a shot at a chip, you have no value

Do you realize how little the talent is around him? A person on a 30 win team can be more valuable then a person on a 60 win team believe it or not. Usually playoff teams or top teams have several good to great players. Nash lost all of his players last year to trade and played with a team of players coming in and out.

23dragonzord
09-20-2011, 12:26 AM
I thought Derrick Rose was the MVP last year...

llemon
09-20-2011, 12:30 AM
Guess you didn't see his last 22 games of the season.

Andrew32
09-20-2011, 12:32 AM
Always loved Nash, dude is underrated and has one of the GOAT skill sets and shot for a PG.

beasted86
09-20-2011, 12:34 AM
Guess you didn't see his last 22 games of the season.

Yeah, his post all-star splits are nowhere near MVP caliber.

John Walls Era
09-20-2011, 12:44 AM
It means his team had very bad depth and was basically garbage. The Suns are lucky Nash isn't a player that demands trades.

Andrew32
09-20-2011, 12:46 AM
Doesn't his team suck now though?

I mean he has Carter who is old and a shadow of his former self (even his NJN self)
Grant Hill who's great but is also old and playing on robot Ankles.

Then you have Chanting Frye.. bad team.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 12:49 AM
Guess you didn't see his last 22 games of the season.

you mean when his 2nd fav target and probably the best 3pt shooter(channing frye) was out for 3 weeks, while he was dealing with 3 different injuries all while playing with vince "half man half has been" carter who was ball hogging and chucking up shots like crazy. He probably shouldnt be the mvp but the fact that people overlook how great he is performin is sad.

llemon
09-20-2011, 01:00 AM
you mean when his 2nd fav target and probably the best 3pt shooter(channing frye) was out for 3 weeks, while he was dealing with 3 different injuries all while playing with vince "half man half has been" carter who was ball hogging and chucking up shots like crazy. He probably shouldnt be the mvp but the fact that people overlook how great he is performin is sad.

Nash's last 22 games were why Suns didn't make the playoffs.

He was injured and aging. But that's why he wasn't last years REAL MVP.

Andrew32
09-20-2011, 01:03 AM
he averaged like 13-15 APG over the last 20 games didnt he?

His scoring was down alot 8-13ppg but he still was shooting a good %

Agree that he played his worst at the season ending stretch though.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 01:07 AM
Nash's last 22 games were why Suns didn't make the playoffs.

He was injured and aging. But that's why he wasn't last years REAL MVP.

yeah he was and thats why i said he might not be mvp but should at least be recognized more. Even though he is aging his production is still one of the best in the league

llemon
09-20-2011, 01:12 AM
he averaged like 13-15 APG over the last 20 games didnt he?

His scoring was down alot 8-13ppg but he still was shooting a good %

Agree that he played his worst at the season ending stretch though.

The reason Nash won 2 MVPs was because part of his game was scorer and go-to guy.

I'm not talking basketball stats. I'm talking on court basketball.

Nash's last 22 games are why he wasn't the REAL MVP this past season.

tredigs
09-20-2011, 01:22 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG7.HTM

numbers say it all. discuss

Bosh was the MVP of the Heat, Kyle Lowry a top ten player and two of the top 4 most valuable players are on the Celtics... discuss.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 01:33 AM
Nash's last 22 games were why Suns didn't make the playoffs.

He was injured and aging. But that's why he wasn't last years REAL MVP.

yeah he was and thats why i said he might not be mvp but should at least be recognized more. Even though he is aging his production is still one of the best in the league

Ethix11
09-20-2011, 01:36 AM
According to this, Andre Blatche deserved the MVP more than Kobe?

Hellcrooner
09-20-2011, 03:06 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM


mmm isnt i tdwight?

More-Than-Most
09-20-2011, 04:08 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM


mmm isnt i tdwight?

yea... but click the net and that is what the op is going by I believe

The reason nash falls behind is in general production... He is going by value and how important nash is to the suns while on the court compared to off.

Zetterberg40
09-20-2011, 05:12 AM
yeah I love me some nash but this would place guys like Bibby Collison Bosh Miller Lowry Conley and Allen in the top 20 for mvp votes with Durant Kobe D-Will Melo Amare and several other not coming to mind behind these guys. I mean its a pretty important stat but deff doesnt define who is most valuable to their team

Chronz
09-20-2011, 06:16 AM
Yea but is it more valuable to be +17 on a horrible team or +16.3 on a championship team?

Maybe Dirk was the MVP afterall...

dhopisthename
09-20-2011, 08:39 AM
that sortable stat just shows how bad the person behind him is it doesn't show how good he is. as sombody pointed out this http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM or this http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG4.HTM makes more sense and the names look better as well

Chronz
09-20-2011, 09:19 AM
that sortable stat just shows how bad the person behind him is it doesn't show how good he is. as sombody pointed out this http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM or this http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG4.HTM makes more sense and the names look better as well

Yea so if Dirk had a horrible backup doesnt it mean his championship team relied on him immensely?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-20-2011, 09:26 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM


mmm isnt i tdwight?

just wanted to post this

Sly Guy
09-20-2011, 09:44 AM
you mean when his 2nd fav target and probably the best 3pt shooter(channing frye) was out for 3 weeks, while he was dealing with 3 different injuries all while playing with vince "half man half has been" carter who was ball hogging and chucking up shots like crazy. He probably shouldnt be the mvp but the fact that people overlook how great he is performin is sad.

lawlz.

yeah, you can't give out an MVP award based on plus-minus splits. I wouldn't put wins up there as a high criteria either, but it's at least as important.

THE GIPPER
09-20-2011, 11:07 AM
bottom line nash is underrated i'd love to see him traded to a contender

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:18 PM
Ahem.... As a massive Kyle Lowry fan, I would like to note that he cracked the top 10 on this list. For anyone who has debated me when I talk about how good he is and how good he is going to be... how does that taste? Does it taste good?

That is all.

smith&wesson
09-20-2011, 12:37 PM
the owner killed the team around nash.

DJakk
09-20-2011, 12:39 PM
That statistic is straight ********. If you actually look at the chart and realize that Nash had no production at all, you will see that Paul Pierce was more deserving of the MVP than Nash.

Hawkeye15
09-20-2011, 01:21 PM
The stat listed in the OP is far more indicative of a great player playing on a team with zero depth and a high lack of shot producing talent.

ewmania
09-20-2011, 01:32 PM
people just hate giving derrick rose credit

- is it because he's young
- is it because he's on a big market team
- is it because you hate bulls
- is it because you hate the fact bulls had jordan now derrick rose

derrick rose is a stud and a top 10 player he's also MVP, get use it jeez already

Sly Guy
09-20-2011, 02:04 PM
people just hate giving derrick rose credit

- is it because he's young
- is it because he's on a big market team
- is it because you hate bulls
- is it because you hate the fact bulls had jordan now derrick rose

derrick rose is a stud and a top 10 player he's also MVP, get use it jeez already

nah, I think the #1 reason why he gets hated on is b/c of bulls' fans of psd. Nice try. I actually like the guy, but I don't think he was MVP over Dwight. And I'd like to see him in a system where he isn't the only scoring option on the team so I can better gauge the other aspects of his offensive game.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 02:07 PM
bottom line nash is underrated i'd love to see him traded to a contender

id love a hard cap to be set forcing teams like 76ers, heat, or hawks to trade one of their assets. Best case scenario is suns land josh smith. Really optimistic scenario they land chris bosh

mekedubs
09-20-2011, 02:48 PM
Even when Nash had Amare, Marion, Diaw, etc., he still couldn't get his team to the Finals although he's won 2 MVP's... As good as he is, you got to go to that next level to get your team over the top. That's why MVP votes are total "popularity" contests because it's whoever the media is hyping up to be the MVP is who gets it...
Nash is a great point guard and plays the position masterfully but an MVP to me is the guy that when you need that shot, he takes it... When you need that steal, he gets it.. When you need to set up the winning play, he makes it...
He's a great guard along with Paul, Deron Williams, Rondo, Rose, and Kidd but when it comes to that "killer instinct" to win the big game, he's slightly lacking in that department imo...

BranWingss
09-20-2011, 04:26 PM
Feel bad for Nash, and I'm a Suns fan. He really had no one to play with. Vince is a shell of his former self. He was awful with us. Hill was solid throughout the year, but you can't count on 20+ point games from him every night. Frye was good at times, and Gortat was solid.

You're not going to make the playoffs with a starting line-up of:

Gortat
Frye
Hill
Carter
Nash

llemon
09-20-2011, 05:19 PM
Even when Nash had Amare, Marion, Diaw, etc., he still couldn't get his team to the Finals although he's won 2 MVP's... As good as he is, you got to go to that next level to get your team over the top. That's why MVP votes are total "popularity" contests because it's whoever the media is hyping up to be the MVP is who gets it...
Nash is a great point guard and plays the position masterfully but an MVP to me is the guy that when you need that shot, he takes it... When you need that steal, he gets it.. When you need to set up the winning play, he makes it...
He's a great guard along with Paul, Deron Williams, Rondo, Rose, and Kidd but when it comes to that "killer instinct" to win the big game, he's slightly lacking in that department imo...

If you think Nash wasn't willing to set up the winning play or shoot the winning shot, you can't have watched many Suns games since Nash joined them

king4day
09-20-2011, 05:20 PM
Nash for Harden? Oooooo fine :)

Move Westbrook to SG and enjoy your title run.

Super.
09-20-2011, 05:26 PM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG7.HTM

numbers say it all. discuss

Wait what? He leads one stat and he deserves an MVP?

:laugh2:

playmaker_41
09-20-2011, 05:42 PM
i have nothing bad to say about Nash, best player at his position since the great magic johnson

mdm692
09-20-2011, 05:48 PM
Nash for Harden? Oooooo fine :)

Move Westbrook to SG and enjoy your title run.

yo ive been thinkin about that for a while now hahaha i would love nash on the thunder. But trade would have to be nash+hill for collison, harden and fillers maybe a pick. If the suns trade nash he will more than likely be packaged with hill to give them a chance to win a chip

llemon
09-20-2011, 05:49 PM
yo ive been thinkin about that for a while now hahaha i would love nash on the thunder. But trade would have to be nash+hill for collison, harden and fillers maybe a pick. If the suns trade nash he will more than likely be packaged with hill to give them a chance to win a chip

If I were the Suns, I'd do that trade QUICKLY.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 05:51 PM
Wait what? He leads one stat and he deserves an MVP?

:laugh2:

led the league in assist led all guards in double doubles only 4 big man had more double doubles than him. Shot just under 40-50-90 mark due to injuries. Led the league in games with 15+ Assist. Led the league in win shares or whatever its called.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 06:00 PM
If I were the Suns, I'd do that trade QUICKLY.

exactly he is a great player and i always have thought hed make it big if given the chance. He fits in perfectly with thunder but nash is superior and would elevate westbrooks, kds, and ibakas game to the max. While harden who is overshadowed by the superstardom of westbrook and kd gets a chance to prove his value where he went to college(asu) he would sell a lot of seats and with players like dudley, marcin gortat, frye, and markieff they can rebuild through FA and drafts.

james harden/dowdell
FA sg(nick young or jr) /dudley
Childress/fa
Markieff/hakim
Gortat/frye

nice little core there to build on

llemon
09-20-2011, 06:15 PM
exactly he is a great player and i always have thought hed make it big if given the chance. He fits in perfectly with thunder but nash is superior and would elevate westbrooks, kds, and ibakas game to the max. While harden who is overshadowed by the superstardom of westbrook and kd gets a chance to prove his value where he went to college(asu) he would sell a lot of seats and with players like dudley, marcin gortat, frye, and markieff they can rebuild through FA and drafts.

james harden/dowdell
FA sg(nick young or jr) /dudley
Childress/fa
Markieff/hakim
Gortat/frye

nice little core there to build on

Wouldn't Collison and Frye share the PF duties?

And you really have to wonder how much Nash has left.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 06:22 PM
Wouldn't Collison and Frye share the PF duties?

And you really have to wonder how much Nash has left.

yeah i forgot about collison but sinche has a fairly big contract he would probably be traded. But the way nash and hill take care of themselves they can probably play 2-3 more years at a high level. Most important can you imagine what playing with nash would do for westbrooks career if he can put aside his ego and learn from nashs passing game he could become deadly

llemon
09-20-2011, 06:31 PM
yeah i forgot about collison but sinche has a fairly big contract he would probably be traded. But the way nash and hill take care of themselves they can probably play 2-3 more years at a high level. Most important can you imagine what playing with nash would do for westbrooks career if he can put aside his ego and learn from nashs passing game he could become deadly

I believe Collison now has a very SMALL contract.

Nash and Hill are old. Nash showed it severely at the end of last season.

Harden is young and could be something very special for years. Collison is a tough, physical hard playing guy, and still has some years.

Would be a great trade for the Suns.

mdm692
09-20-2011, 07:15 PM
I believe Collison now has a very SMALL contract.

Nash and Hill are old. Nash showed it severely at the end of last season.

Harden is young and could be something very special for years. Collison is a tough, physical hard playing guy, and still has some years.

Would be a great trade for the Suns.

i thought collison was making around 10mill. Not sure though. And they showed their age in the suns because they had to do everything for the team. played 50min in that triple ot game. And had a lot of games in the mid 30s. Obviously in okc hill and nash would probably avg 24mpg maybe nash gets close to 30mpg but he wont be recquired to do much except make plays and let kd and westbrook do the scoring.

Evolution23
09-20-2011, 08:24 PM
You wont hear me disagree. As great as the guy is he is still underrated because people think his defense is by far worse then it is... Is it bad?Sure but its not as bad as people make it out to be. Some people don't even have him in the top 5 at his position which is also ********.

1. CP3
2. Rose
3. Deron
4. Nash
5. Westbrook

llemon
09-20-2011, 08:28 PM
i thought collison was making around 10mill. Not sure though. And they showed their age in the suns because they had to do everything for the team. played 50min in that triple ot game. And had a lot of games in the mid 30s. Obviously in okc hill and nash would probably avg 24mpg maybe nash gets close to 30mpg but he wont be recquired to do much except make plays and let kd and westbrook do the scoring.

Collison's salary is $3.273 mil this (if there is a) season.

LosDoyers1
09-21-2011, 12:59 AM
if you cant get your team in the playoffs

MVP is pretty irrelevant... because the keyword is "value".. if you don't give your team a shot at a chip, you have no value

I'll play devil's advocate. Look at who Nash had on his team and you tell me if anybody could take that team to the playoffs in the West.

I'm not saying he deserved the award, but he did a pretty darn good job this year. Give him credit. Saying he has no value is asinine.

links136
09-22-2011, 01:34 PM
people just hate giving derrick rose credit

- is it because he's young
- is it because he's on a big market team
- is it because you hate bulls
- is it because you hate the fact bulls had jordan now derrick rose

derrick rose is a stud and a top 10 player he's also MVP, get use it jeez already

he's very good and deserved the captain of one of the best teams award but the stats show he isn't as valuable to his team as Nash was. thats all i'm trying to point out. MVP does stand for most valuable player award.

llemon
09-22-2011, 01:52 PM
he's very good and deserved the captain of one of the best teams award but the stats show he isn't as valuable to his team as Nash was. thats all i'm trying to point out. MVP does stand for most valuable player award.

It not the most valuable player on your team, it is the Most Valuable Player in the league.

Rose was obviously the most valuable player on his team, and his team won the most games in the NBA regular season (MVP is a regular season award).

Nash was the most valuable player on a team that finished 6 games out of the playoffs.

Nash did not receive ONE MVP vote.

Time to give up the ghost.

links136
09-22-2011, 07:02 PM
It not the most valuable player on your team, it is the Most Valuable Player in the league.

Rose was obviously the most valuable player on his team, and his team won the most games in the NBA regular season (MVP is a regular season award).

Nash was the most valuable player on a team that finished 6 games out of the playoffs.

Nash did not receive ONE MVP vote.

Time to give up the ghost.

right, captain of the best team award, just like i said.

chicago - Rose >>>>>>>> phoenix - Nash.

Chicago without Rose is +5.2 in point differential. Phoenix without Nash is - 11 in point differential, which makes a +16 overall difference in teammates, and thats with aaron brooks and dragic backing him up at 2 different times. The most valuable player to his team in the league is Nash, no question. In fact chicago's offense isn't a standout in anyway and is quite average by everything i've tried to look up, their defense is what won them games, which is definitely not the product of Rose and the stats show it was a team effort, while the MVP is an individual award.

I still say he deserves the captain of the best team award. He isn't as valuable as Nash is to his team though, which is my point.

links136
09-22-2011, 07:26 PM
The stat listed in the OP is far more indicative of a great player playing on a team with zero depth and a high lack of shot producing talent.

while true the list is nash, pierce, nowitzki, garnett, aldridge, ginobili, paul, howard, only surprise is Lowry, and somewhat bosh, james, gasol, duncan in that order. Quite a few players who have a lot of depth on their team with lots of shot producing talent yet still you would expect to top the list, and they do.

It is THE stat to determine who has the most value to his team while the MVP award is like i said, the captain of the best team award. Thats the thing about it though, its an individual award for a team effort, and I really feel nash's individual efforts were really underrated last year. The fact that team was one game below 500 is a miracle.

I guess you can call Nash the Statistical MVP.

links136
09-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Bosh was one of 3(seriously a .1 edge) MVP's of the Heat, Kyle Lowry a top ten most valuable player to his team and two of the top 4 most valuable players are on the Celtics... discuss.

yes discuss.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 07:43 PM
while true the list is nash, pierce, nowitzki, garnett, aldridge, ginobili, paul, howard, only surprise is Lowry, and somewhat bosh, james, gasol, duncan in that order. Quite a few players who have a lot of depth on their team with lots of shot producing talent yet still you would expect to top the list, and they do.

It is THE stat to determine who has the most value to his team while the MVP award is like i said, the captain of the best team award. Thats the thing about it though, its an individual award for a team effort, and I really feel nash's individual efforts were really underrated last year. The fact that team was one game below 500 is a miracle.

I guess you can call Nash the Statistical MVP.


of course you will see all the top players in the pole position of that stat, but its not representative of the best (or most important) player, because it has to do a lot with team makeup and roster, compared with some other stats.

I have always thought the way the MVP is selected is completely flawed. But I don't think there is any way you can make a strong case for Nash being the MVP this year.

links136
09-22-2011, 07:58 PM
According to this, Andre Blatche deserved the MVP more than Kobe?

Not really, with Blatche on the court they were still -5 point differential, which just shows he doesn't suck nearly as much as his teammates. In order to even be up for discussion he'd have to at least produce a positive on the court. Also, Bryants teammates had better on court than Bryant himself(gasol +8.4, Fisher +9.3, Artest +8.5, bryant +7.3) and worse off court, which could be an indication of aging, ball hogging or a strong bench. Knowing Kobe its probably ball hogging considering those players are quite unselfish on that team.

I must say i still am surprised by lowry on the list though, never thought that in a million years. Perhaps he is a really really underrated player.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 08:10 PM
Not really, with Blatche on the court they were still -5 point differential, which just shows he doesn't suck nearly as much as his teammates. In order to even be up for discussion he'd have to at least produce a positive on the court. Also, Bryants teammates had better on court than Bryant himself(gasol +8.4, Fisher +9.3, Artest +8.5, bryant +7.3) and worse off court, which could be an indication of aging, ball hogging or a strong bench. Knowing Kobe its probably ball hogging considering those players are quite unselfish on that team.

I must say i still am surprised by lowry on the list though, never thought that in a million years. Perhaps he is a really really underrated player.

your first paragraph explains why every one of those +/- numbers needs to be individually examined, and simply listing them tells us minimal.

Lowry is very, very underrated. He will win MIP next year, and is a future all star. I have been saying that for about 6-8 months now. He may be the best defensive PG in the game starting this year, and will be a 18-8 offensive player with good efficiency.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 08:12 PM
telling you guys right now, while I am not a Houston Rockets fan even though I live in Houston, I have been saying Lowry is a complete stud for 2 years now, and was actually happy he got the opportunity when Aaron went down and then was traded. Lowry is a very, very good PG. Everyone will see it next season, if they haven't already

links136
09-22-2011, 08:34 PM
of course you will see all the top players in the pole position of that stat, but its not representative of the best (or most important) player, because it has to do a lot with team makeup and roster, compared with some other stats.

I have always thought the way the MVP is selected is completely flawed. But I don't think there is any way you can make a strong case for Nash being the MVP this year.


the stat itself is team production with the player on court minus team production without the player off court, which has everything to do with team makeup and roster compared to that player. And best is different from important. Best = most productive, important = most influential with their production. No one had more influence to their team than Nash, which is all i'm trying to point out.

links136
09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
your first paragraph explains why every one of those +/- numbers needs to be individually examined, and simply listing them tells us minimal.

Lowry is very, very underrated. He will win MIP next year, and is a future all star. I have been saying that for about 6-8 months now. He may be the best defensive PG in the game starting this year, and will be a 18-8 offensive player with good efficiency.

your right in that I should have been more specific in individually examining the numbers. All I really do is see if they have positive on court production then compare all 3 numbers to their teammates numbers and I find that tells quite a story for each player.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 09:07 PM
the stat itself is team production with the player on court minus team production without the player off court, which has everything to do with team makeup and roster compared to that player. And best is different from important. Best = most productive, important = most influential with their production. No one had more influence to their team than Nash, which is all i'm trying to point out.

I know exactly what simple rating is, and how it's calculated.

That stat represents this for Nash: He is on a roster that has zero players that can produce effective offense for themselves, and zero depth. If you put Nash on the Lakers for example, his simple rating would drop a number of points. And if you put Kobe on the Suns, his simple rating would increase.

This stat is a good one, and tells a story if you dig in, but it does not simply give us the most important player to their team.

Tony_Starks
09-22-2011, 09:15 PM
This is why I avoid advanced stats like fat chicks. From a sheer watching the game standpoint Nash is still very good and IMO the best pg in the league until he retires, but in no way close to MVP. Those years are gone.

I have to give that one to Dwight Howard. Biggest impact on both ends of the floor than any player in the league.

Hawkeye15
09-22-2011, 09:38 PM
This is why I avoid advanced stats like fat chicks. From a sheer watching the game standpoint Nash is still very good and IMO the best pg in the league until he retires, but in no way close to MVP. Those years are gone.

I have to give that one to Dwight Howard. Biggest impact on both ends of the floor than any player in the league.

you avoid fat chicks? Look at your sig hahahaha. j/k brother.

And yes, this is ALWAYS my problem about attempting to rank a player overall by one advanced statistic. It doesn't work.

links136
09-22-2011, 10:23 PM
This is why I avoid advanced stats like fat chicks. From a sheer watching the game standpoint Nash is still very good and IMO the best pg in the league until he retires, but in no way close to MVP. Those years are gone.

I have to give that one to Dwight Howard. Biggest impact on both ends of the floor than any player in the league.

it was only last year he was at the WCF, a metta world peace rebound away from going into overtime in the deciding game 5. I swear the only difference I noticed with steve nash is his teammates. He seems as impossible to stop on offense as ever. If he went to someone like memphis or orlando watch the frick out, especially if he gets extra rest this season.

On another note ron artest is slowly becoming my favorite person.

I do agree on the howard part as well.

Andrew32
09-23-2011, 12:00 AM
Nash should go to Miami win 73 games and the Title and then retire.

kblo247
09-23-2011, 02:20 AM
He really wasn't. If he was then you owe Kobe one for the 06 team he got in the playoffs, which Nash didn't do for the current team of his. You also may as well send tmac one for the Orlando days as well.

The fact is Nash is the only MVP, two time in fact, in history to never lead his team the finals. He has had the talent around him and the cast, but just didnt get the job done which is why he is the laughing stock of all MVP's in the record book

Lim
09-23-2011, 08:44 AM
STEVE NASH MOST 50 / 40 / 90s IN HISTORY!!!!!! GOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mekedubs
09-23-2011, 09:15 AM
He really wasn't. If he was then you owe Kobe one for the 06 team he got in the playoffs, which Nash didn't do for the current team of his. You also may as well send tmac one for the Orlando days as well.

The fact is Nash is the only MVP, two time in fact, in history to never lead his team the finals. He has had the talent around him and the cast, but just didnt get the job done which is why he is the laughing stock of all MVP's in the record book

:clap::clap:^^^^THIS!!

JonnyBrav000
09-23-2011, 09:18 AM
http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG7.HTM

numbers say it all. discuss


edit: due to the fact the most valuable player award really means the captain of the best team award, this should be the indicator of the most underrated player in the NBA. Remember, this stat is relative to your team-mates first and foremost. Someone like Kobe will be lower on this stat due to the fact he has a bunch of terrific teammates in Paul Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Ron Artest.


I don't care what this article says, if you research hard enough I am sure you can find articles that state pigs can fly, santa is real, Obama is out to help the people or that the sky is purple, but it doesn't make it true. anyone who believes Nash should have been the MVP last season is a moron. They didn't make the playoffs, plus Paul Pierce is number two on this list and he shouldn't be in the running for MVP as well. By the way, anyone saying Nash is the best PG in the league is also ridiculous because that title belongs to Chris Paul (followed by D-Will), who also has a pretty Sh*tty team around him that did make the playoffs! I am not a Lebron fan, but he would be able to get last season's Phoenix Suns (without Nash) to the playoffs with no problem, he basically did that almost every year in Cleveland with a really weak supporting cast.

For those that don't remember D.Rose was the MVP last year and he deserved it, even though I personally felt the MVP was Dwight Howard, but I cannot be mad with Rose winning it, as far as Nash, he was nowhere near the MVP radar last season. He's a really good player don't get me wrong, but to basically put him on a pedestal because he plays with a crappy team is just buffoonery. Allen Iverson took an incredibly weak 76ers team to the NBA finals in 2001, so if you want to be MVP, doesn't matter who you play with, you have to at least get your team to the playoffs to even be considered. No ifs, ands or buts. The award isn't best offensive player of the year, or best teammate of the year, it's most valuable player of the year and if you don't get your team to the post season, then your franchise doesn't make additional revenue, the fans don't get additional games, so how can you be most valuable?

By the way, Nash is in no way a G.O.A.T., he's a fine player, a really really good player but never underrated, he won 2 MVP's but he couldn't help Dirk win the championship, Dirk did it without him, plus Nash shouldn't have even won MVP in 2006, Nash had a bomb squad, Amare, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Leandro Barbosa, just pass the ball and its an automatic assist, come on and Kobe Bryant was the superior player, (36PPG!!!) and even got that crappy Lakers team to the playoffs that season. This pro Nash for MVP or most underrated player argument is crap. He's had plenty of chances to win championships with great teams in Dallas and Phoenix but no title. Yet two MVP's and one I.M.O. he didn't deserve.

mdm692
09-23-2011, 01:31 PM
He really wasn't. If he was then you owe Kobe one for the 06 team he got in the playoffs, which Nash didn't do for the current team of his. You also may as well send tmac one for the Orlando days as well.

The fact is Nash is the only MVP, two time in fact, in history to never lead his team the finals. He has had the talent around him and the cast, but just didnt get the job done which is why he is the laughing stock of all MVP's in the record book

:facepalm:

SteBO
09-23-2011, 01:46 PM
He really wasn't. If he was then you owe Kobe one for the 06 team he got in the playoffs, which Nash didn't do for the current team of his. You also may as well send tmac one for the Orlando days as well.

The fact is Nash is the only MVP, two time in fact, in history to never lead his team the finals. He has had the talent around him and the cast, but just didnt get the job done which is why he is the laughing stock of all MVP's in the record book


:clap::clap:^^^^THIS!!
Umm, if I recall correctly Amare Stoudemire was no go in 2006, yet the Suns reached the WCF. I can also safely say without retracting that the league very well could've robbed the Suns of a title had they not given out those BS suspensions in '07. Nash wasn't MVP in '07, Dirk was but that's besides the point since playoffs don't matter when it comes to the "regular season" MVP. Why did you bother to bring up the playoffs? :shrug: Nash deserved the MVP award he got, period.

mdm692
09-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Umm, if I recall correctly Amare Stoudemire was no go in 2006, yet the Suns reached the WCF. I can also safely say without retracting that the league very well could've robbed the Suns of a title had they not given out those BS suspensions in '07. Nash wasn't MVP in '07, Dirk was but that's besides the point since playoffs don't matter when it comes to the "regular season" MVP. Why did you bother to bring up the playoffs? :shrug: Nash deserved the MVP award he got, period.

cause people are haters and homers. Nash has been leading the league in APG 6 out of the last 8 years. Has been the best shooter percentage wise(40-50-90) and won the mvp in 2006 without stat, joe jonhson and q got traded yet he still manage to lead the team to one of the leagues best records for 2nd straight years.

LAST YEAR HE LED THE LEAGUE IN APG, WIN SHARES(WHATEVER ITS CALLED), IN GAMES WITH +15 ASST. AND LED ALL GUARDS(KOBE, WADE, CP3, DERON, RONDO, ROSE, WESTBROOK, ETC) IN DOUBLE DOUBLES ONLY DWIGHT, BLAKE, LOVE AND ZACH RANDOLPH(I THINK) HAD MORE. OH NOT TO MENTION HE ACCOMPLISHED THIS AT 37YRS OLD WITH NO OTHER STAR OR GOOD ENOUGH ROLE PLAYER, WHILE NURTURING 3 DIFFERENT INJURIES, GOING THROUGH 3 DIFFERENT ROSTER CHANGES, AND LOSING HIS FAVORITE TARGET(CHANNING FRYE) FOR 3 WEEKS IN THE FINAL STRETCH OF THE SEASON YET HE IS STILL THE MOST OFFENSIVE EFFICIENT PG WE HAVE IN THE LEAGUE THATS WHY HE IS STILL THE BEST.

Lim
09-25-2011, 10:11 AM
cause people are haters and homers. Nash has been leading the league in APG 6 out of the last 8 years. Has been the best shooter percentage wise(40-50-90) and won the mvp in 2006 without stat, joe jonhson and q got traded yet he still manage to lead the team to one of the leagues best records for 2nd straight years.

LAST YEAR HE LED THE LEAGUE IN APG, WIN SHARES(WHATEVER ITS CALLED), IN GAMES WITH +15 ASST. AND LED ALL GUARDS(KOBE, WADE, CP3, DERON, RONDO, ROSE, WESTBROOK, ETC) IN DOUBLE DOUBLES ONLY DWIGHT, BLAKE, LOVE AND ZACH RANDOLPH(I THINK) HAD MORE. OH NOT TO MENTION HE ACCOMPLISHED THIS AT 37YRS OLD WITH NO OTHER STAR OR GOOD ENOUGH ROLE PLAYER, WHILE NURTURING 3 DIFFERENT INJURIES, GOING THROUGH 3 DIFFERENT ROSTER CHANGES, AND LOSING HIS FAVORITE TARGET(CHANNING FRYE) FOR 3 WEEKS IN THE FINAL STRETCH OF THE SEASON YET HE IS STILL THE MOST OFFENSIVE EFFICIENT PG WE HAVE IN THE LEAGUE THATS WHY HE IS STILL THE BEST.

good post. he has easily been the best offensive PG in the league for quite some time now

KnicksorBust
09-25-2011, 01:08 PM
I think he's the best shooter in NBA History. I think he deserves to have 1 MVP awards. I don't think he was close to being the MVP of league last year.

Lim
09-25-2011, 05:11 PM
I think he's the best shooter in NBA History. I think he deserves to have 1 MVP awards. I don't think he was close to being the MVP of league last year.

agreed. he is almost averaging a 50 40 90 for his CAREER. that is insane.

Ovratd1up
09-25-2011, 06:08 PM
Still the best passer in the league too. I think you can argue him as being among the top two or three most effective offensive players in the league.

NetsPaint
09-25-2011, 11:24 PM
Somebody on here actually said Nash should be traded to the Celtics and come off the bench to make some shots. Makes no sense. THIS is how underrated he is.

The gap between Nash and Rose right now comes down to being able to play.

I'm a Hornets fan, and a Chris Paul fan, and unlike a lot of people here, I've actually watched a lot of Hornets games on League Pass. I don't care what he did in the Playoffs, Nash was better in the regular season. There were games Paul didn't seem like he was trying (probably because of his knee). He even admitted he saved himself for the Playoffs.

Some people don't watch games. Nash is a SUPERSTAR still. Lose Amar'e? So what, right? Piece of cake to make it to the Playoffs? Only forty wins in the west? What a joke!

Dwight Howard I think deserved the MVP award last year. He was in the same scenario as Nash kinda, and played at a top level on both sides of the floor. I don't think Rose was the M.V.P. Not that I don't like Rose. I'm a fan of him.

mdm692
09-25-2011, 11:37 PM
Somebody on here actually said Nash should be traded to the Celtics and come off the bench to make some shots. Makes no sense. THIS is how underrated he is.

The gap between Nash and Rose right now comes down to being able to play.

I'm a Hornets fan, and a Chris Paul fan, and unlike a lot of people here, I've actually watched a lot of Hornets games on League Pass. I don't care what he did in the Playoffs, Nash was better in the regular season. There were games Paul didn't seem like he was trying (probably because of his knee). He even admitted he saved himself for the Playoffs.

Some people don't watch games. Nash is a SUPERSTAR still. Lose Amar'e? So what, right? Piece of cake to make it to the Playoffs? Only forty wins in the east? What a joke!

Dwight Howard I think deserved the MVP award last year. He was in the same scenario as Nash kinda, and played at a top level on both sides of the floor. I don't think Rose was the M.V.P. Not that I don't like Rose. I'm a fan of him.

exactly put the suns in the east and theyre playing the celics or bulls first round and actually beating them(YES BEATING THEM)

3mikee_
09-25-2011, 11:45 PM
The necessary "winning" requirement has always confused me. It should just be a player who if that team was without this player would lose 90% of their games.

THE GIPPER
09-25-2011, 11:46 PM
I think he's the best shooter in NBA History. I think he deserves to have 1 MVP awards. I don't think he was close to being the MVP of league last year.

agree

llemon
09-26-2011, 12:24 AM
Somebody on here actually said Nash should be traded to the Celtics and come off the bench to make some shots. Makes no sense. THIS is how underrated he is.

The gap between Nash and Rose right now comes down to being able to play.

I'm a Hornets fan, and a Chris Paul fan, and unlike a lot of people here, I've actually watched a lot of Hornets games on League Pass. I don't care what he did in the Playoffs, Nash was better in the regular season. There were games Paul didn't seem like he was trying (probably because of his knee). He even admitted he saved himself for the Playoffs.

Some people don't watch games. Nash is a SUPERSTAR still. Lose Amar'e? So what, right? Piece of cake to make it to the Playoffs? Only forty wins in the west? What a joke!

Dwight Howard I think deserved the MVP award last year. He was in the same scenario as Nash kinda, and played at a top level on both sides of the floor. I don't think Rose was the M.V.P. Not that I don't like Rose. I'm a fan of him.

I'm a very big fan of Steve Nash, but his last 22 games were not fun to watch. I think he had 4 good games in that span.

He ain't getting younger, nor faster, nor quicker. Injuries are harder to come back from.

I'd love to see him bounce back next season, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't.

And I certainly believe he deserves those two MVPs.