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LakersMaster24
09-18-2011, 09:52 PM
Magic, Kareem, Worthy, and Scott/Cooper?

Shaq, Kobe, Fish, and Horry?

Bird, Parish, McHale and DJ?

Dumars, Isiah, Rodman, and Laimbeer?

Share your opinion!

beasted86
09-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

and

Erving, Moses, Toney, Barkley

Stack_NJNets
09-18-2011, 09:55 PM
Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

This :clap:

Swashcuff
09-18-2011, 09:59 PM
Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks

llemon
09-18-2011, 10:18 PM
Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks

So difficult to leave out Bobby Jones, one of the best defenders the NBA has seen, and also one the smartest NBA players. Could also run the floor and knew when to pass the ball. Very high percentage scorer. I loved watching Jones guard Bird.

When Bobby retired (early, due to epilepsy) I was very, very sad.

llemon
09-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Magic, Kareem, Worthy, and Scott/Cooper?

Shaq, Kobe, Fish, and Horry?

Bird, Parish, McHale and DJ?

Dumars, Isiah, Rodman, and Laimbeer?

Share your opinion!

Fish and Horry knock that Laker quartet out of the running.

Detroit won because of its defense.

And, on a seperate note, Isiah Thomas wouldn't be considered as highly as he is as a player without Joe Dumars. I believe that was realized, and that's why Dumars is in the HOF.

And in the two Jazz Finals seasons, Hornacek served the same purpose to Stockton as Dumars did to Zeke.

Of course, Stockton was a MUCH MORE under control player than Zeke was, but Hornacek allowed Stockton to play stints at the shooting guard, which is what Dumars allowed Zeke to do.

KnicksorBust
09-18-2011, 10:39 PM
If they had gotten together sooner in their careers: Payton-Kobe-Malone-Shaq

I actually like the Celtics 4 the best. I was dying to throw a Knicks foursome in there but they only came in 5s in the 70s.

70 = Frazier-Reed-Debusschere-Bradley/Barnett
73 = Frazier-Reed-Monroe-Debusschere/Bradley

llemon
09-18-2011, 10:51 PM
If they had gotten together sooner in their careers: Payton-Kobe-Malone-Shaq

I actually like the Celtics 4 the best. I was dying to throw a Knicks foursome in there but they only came in 5s in the 70s.

70 = Frazier-Reed-Debusschere-Bradley/Barnett
73 = Frazier-Reed-Monroe-Debusschere/Bradley

Your best shot is '70, but Bradley/Barnett is a little weak.

'73 Reed was injured a lot, but if you substitute Jerry Lucas (although at the end of his career, he was a VERY big part of Knicks' 73 Title) for Bradley, that's a little closer to a big 4

Andrew32
09-18-2011, 10:52 PM
Shaq - Malone - Payton - Kobe

Also what about.

Kevin Garnett - Paul P - Ray Allen - Rondo

McPeak92
09-18-2011, 11:15 PM
Jrue-Iggy-Thad-Brand

MTar786
09-18-2011, 11:25 PM
imo it should be

1.bird, mchale, parish, dj
2. garnett, pierce, allen, rondo
3. shaq, kobe, malone, payton
4. magic, kareem, worthy, cooper
5. jordan, pippen, rodman, kukoc

tredigs
09-18-2011, 11:25 PM
86 Celtics

1/2: Prime Larry Legend and Kevin McHale

3/4: Robert Parish and your choice of Danny Ainge/Dennish Johnson/Bill Walton. 86 Celtics were absolutely loaded.

Any of the old Celtics teams as well. And actually, Pierce/Garnett/Allen/Rondo have a strong case themselves. So basically any random Celtics season that they won a ship.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-18-2011, 11:31 PM
1.Russell
2. Havlicek
3. Cousy
4. Sam Jones

Cousy was old/Havlicek was old....but thats still a shiiit load of talent

llemon
09-18-2011, 11:36 PM
How about this, just for kicks.

Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham, Wilt Chamberlain.

likemystylez
09-18-2011, 11:50 PM
2001 Warriors- Vonteego Cummings, Adonal Foyle, Chris Porter and Bobby Sura.

Honestly, the plethora of talent they were able to put on the floor that season should have been illegal. It was like fishing with dynamite.

just close this thread

beasted86
09-19-2011, 12:05 AM
2001 Warriors- Vonteego Cummings, Adonal Foyle, Chris Porter and Bobby Sura.

Honestly, the plethora of talent they were able to put on the floor that season should have been illegal. It was like fishing with dynamite.

just close this thread

Compared to the useless trash you start threads about, this is like the best thread of the decade

Chronz
09-19-2011, 12:09 AM
1.Russell
2. Havlicek
3. Cousy
4. Sam Jones

Cousy was old/Havlicek was old....but thats still a shiiit load of talent

How were they both old?

likemystylez
09-19-2011, 12:11 AM
Compared to the useless trash you start threads about, this is like the best thread of the decade

right, cuz information about the lock out which is currently going on is useless, but the results from this thread... i dont know how ive survived so far without comparing the 1960s cincinatti royals back court with the mid 80s celtics

Greet
09-19-2011, 12:12 AM
Rose, Deng, Boozer, Noah

beasted86
09-19-2011, 12:18 AM
right, cuz information about the lock out which is currently going on is useless, but the results from this thread... i dont know how ive survived so far without comparing the 1960s cincinatti royals back court with the mid 80s celtics

Information? There is no "information" in the threads you start.

This is what I'm referring to: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653457

There's a reason this thread ist still open and yours couldn't break past page 2 before a mod said to themselves :pity: SMH @ this garbage and locked it.

likemystylez
09-19-2011, 12:22 AM
Information? There is no "information" in the threads you start.

This is what I'm referring to: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653457

There's a reason this thread ist still open and yours couldn't break past page 2 before a mod said to themselves :pity: SMH @ this garbage and locked it.

it sited an artice and even a direct quote from a current player within the last week.

It was information- or atleast according to the writer, it was a reason the lock out will not continue.


LOL- it kind of made lebron look like an idiot, and maybe because your a heat fan thats a sore spot for you.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-19-2011, 01:02 AM
How were they both old?

Ment too say Either old or young....iirc it was havliceks rookie yr and cousy's final

mkdo
09-19-2011, 02:18 AM
add this to your list

amare melo cp3 shumpert

LakersMaster24
09-19-2011, 02:49 AM
imo it should be

1.bird, mchale, parish, dj
2. garnett, pierce, allen, rondo
3. shaq, kobe, malone, payton
4. magic, kareem, worthy, cooper
5. jordan, pippen, rodman, kukoc

Id take the Magic Lakers and the Jordan Bulls over the Payton&Malone Lakers.

douglas
09-19-2011, 03:29 AM
Nash, Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson!

MackShock
09-19-2011, 04:12 AM
the one season with Kobe, Shaq, Payton & Malone..though they lost to DET in the finals.

Jordan, Pippen, Rodman....Kukoc or Ron Harper, cant decide

Hakeem, Drexler, Horry, Sam Cassell (94-95)

Celtics big 3 + Rondo

All time would probably be the Bulls..72-10 is untouchable.

todu82
09-19-2011, 11:56 AM
The Celtics big 4.

mightybosstone
09-19-2011, 12:43 PM
I saw someone mention the Cousy, Hondo Celtics team, but they were only together for one year. How about this foursome....

Bill Russell
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Tom Heinsohn

Those guys won three straight championships from 63-65 and were all named to the Hall of Fame. And you look at their scoring figures over those three seasons and they were insanely balanced. Also, here's a crazy statistic.... all four of those guys, despite their careers overlapping and playing in slightly different eras won AT LEAST 8 championships in their careers. FREAKING 8!!!!

Find me a foursome that can say they were inducted into the hall of fame, were all talented scorers and won 8 championships. It cannot be done....

Edit: It's worth noting that those four defeated the Jerry West/Elgin Baylor Lakers two out of those three years, (4-2 in 63 and 4-1 in 65).

Lakersfan2483
09-19-2011, 01:45 PM
Bird, Mchale, Parish and Dennis Johnson. The 80's Celtics were stacked. Also, the lakers. They had Magic, Kareem, Worthy and Wilkes or Mcadoo. The current Celtics with KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo are up for consideration also.

Heediot
09-19-2011, 01:56 PM
Shaq - Malone - Payton - Kobe

Also what about.

Kevin Garnett - Paul P - Ray Allen - Rondo

MALONE WAS A GEEZER AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Payton was pretty washed up as well.

mightybosstone
09-19-2011, 02:26 PM
Bird, Mchale, Parish and Dennis Johnson. The 80's Celtics were stacked. Also, the lakers. They had Magic, Kareem, Worthy and Wilkes or Mcadoo. The current Celtics with KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo are up for consideration also.

The way I look at it...
1. 60s Celtics - Russell, Havlicek, Heinsohn, Sam Jones (3 titles together)
2. 80s Celtics - Bird, McHale, Parish, Dennis Johnson (2 titles)
3. 80s Lakers - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott (3 titles)

That first group was four guaranteed hall of famers who absolutely dominated the league for the three seasons together. The second group only won two titles together, but all four guys were hall of famers and incredible players. The third group had a little more time together and would have won more titles if not for the second group. Three are incredible players (two top 5 all time arguably), but they didn't quite have that fourth dominant player. McAdoo and Wilkes were at the tail end of their careers when Worthy came along. And Scott was really the fourth guy on those 85, 87 and 88 Lakers teams, but he never made an all star game.

But in terms of talent and name value, how good does that 85 Lakers team look on paper?

Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
James Worthy
Bob McAdoo
Jamaal Wilkes
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott :drool:

avon_barksdale
09-19-2011, 02:36 PM
spurs need some love

duncan, robinson, manu, parker..... plus bowen n sjax

Chronz
09-19-2011, 03:18 PM
MALONE WAS A GEEZER AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Payton was pretty washed up as well.

GP was a geezer but Malone wasn't hes at least as good as most 3rd/4th best option anyone else had named

Evolution23
09-19-2011, 03:26 PM
Marbury, Curry, Francis, Isiah

Evolution23
09-19-2011, 03:27 PM
spurs need some love

duncan, robinson, manu, parker..... plus bowen n sjax

Thats def a good one

tbone2171
09-19-2011, 03:33 PM
Shaq, Kobe, Fish, and Horry?



:facepalm:

LakersMaster24
09-19-2011, 05:41 PM
:facepalm:

Here's a Kleenex if you wanna go cry about it some more. :)

GREATNESS ONE
09-19-2011, 05:50 PM
lol I'll take Magic's Lakers vs anybody.

Randy Marsh
09-19-2011, 08:19 PM
If you consider a "Big Three" LeBron, Wade, and Bosh or Pierce, Allen, and Garnett, then there hasn't been a "Big Four" yet.

Lakersfan2483
09-19-2011, 08:40 PM
The way I look at it...
1. 60s Celtics - Russell, Havlicek, Heinsohn, Sam Jones (3 titles together)
2. 80s Celtics - Bird, McHale, Parish, Dennis Johnson (2 titles)
3. 80s Lakers - Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Byron Scott (3 titles)

That first group was four guaranteed hall of famers who absolutely dominated the league for the three seasons together. The second group only won two titles together, but all four guys were hall of famers and incredible players. The third group had a little more time together and would have won more titles if not for the second group. Three are incredible players (two top 5 all time arguably), but they didn't quite have that fourth dominant player. McAdoo and Wilkes were at the tail end of their careers when Worthy came along. And Scott was really the fourth guy on those 85, 87 and 88 Lakers teams, but he never made an all star game.

But in terms of talent and name value, how good does that 85 Lakers team look on paper?

Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
James Worthy
Bob McAdoo
Jamaal Wilkes
Michael Cooper
Byron Scott :drool:

Good pts. Yeah that 85 team was absolutely stacked man.... The 80's lakers and 80's Celtics were the deepest teams in NBA history. The 60's Celtics were also deep as you mentioned earlier.

McPeak92
09-19-2011, 08:45 PM
lol at 12 year olds who say Shaq, Kobe, Payton, Malone.

Played together 1 year, 0 titles, Payton and Malone were way past prime.

Stack_NJNets
09-19-2011, 08:55 PM
Kidd, Jefferson, Martin, and Kittles were AWESOME. Not the greatest obviously.

bagwell368
09-19-2011, 10:38 PM
1.Russell
2. Havlicek
3. Cousy
4. Sam Jones

Cousy was old/Havlicek was old....but thats still a shiiit load of talent

What?

When Cousy was in his last year, Havlicek was a rookie.

'62: Russell, S. Jones, Heinsohn, Ramsey

'86 Celts just outpoint '08

Malone, Erving, Cheeks, Toney - what a tough team

'72 Lakers anyone? Wilt, West, Goodrich, Hairston

Geargo Wallace
09-19-2011, 10:46 PM
86 Celts all day.

bagwell368
09-19-2011, 11:01 PM
lol I'll take Magic's Lakers vs anybody.

Just make sure Moses isn't the opposing Center to Kareem.

bagwell368
09-19-2011, 11:12 PM
I saw someone mention the Cousy, Hondo Celtics team, but they were only together for one year. How about this foursome....

Bill Russell
John Havlicek
Sam Jones
Tom Heinsohn

Those guys won three straight championships from 63-65 and were all named to the Hall of Fame. And you look at their scoring figures over those three seasons and they were insanely balanced. Also, here's a crazy statistic.... all four of those guys, despite their careers overlapping and playing in slightly different eras won AT LEAST 8 championships in their careers. FREAKING 8!!!!

Havlicek was not in the top 4 in '63 or '65. He didn't really take over until Russell retired actually.


Find me a foursome that can say they were inducted into the hall of fame, were all talented scorers and won 8 championships. It cannot be done....

Celts have the only six players with 8 or more titles. Havlicek is the only Celtic that was part of more than 1 Championship era.

Celts had the best team and best gm/coach during those years.


Edit: It's worth noting that those four defeated the Jerry West/Elgin Baylor Lakers two out of those three years, (4-2 in 63 and 4-1 in 65).

The Celts have beaten the Lakers 9 times over the years, Russell did it 7 times.

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:11 AM
Havlicek was not in the top 4 in '63 or '65. He didn't really take over until Russell retired actually.
This is just wrong. Havlicek was 4th in team scoring in 63, first in scoring in 64 and 2nd in scoring in 65. How was he not in the top 4. Are you just guessing here or do you actually have a factual basis for this argument?


Celts have the only six players with 8 or more titles. Havlicek is the only Celtic that was part of more than 1 Championship era.

Celts had the best team and best gm/coach during those years.

The Celts have beaten the Lakers 9 times over the years, Russell did it 7 times.
Just because other Celtics teams around this particular team was successful does not make this team any less impressive, because these guys were directly responsible for the championships before that three year span and after that three year span. And even if you say Havlicek is too young or Heinsohn too old (which I would disagree with based on their numbers), all four were still extremely strong players over that three year stretch.

Crackadalic
09-20-2011, 12:21 AM
86 celtics was just so stack

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:53 AM
What?

When Cousy was in his last year, Havlicek was a rookie.

'62: Russell, S. Jones, Heinsohn, Ramsey
How can you possibly take this Celtics foursome over the one I chose? You'd rather have Frank Ramsey over the first four years of Hondo's career? No, Havlicek was not the dominant player he would later become, but he was a better player in 64 and 65 than Ramsey was in 62.


'72 Lakers anyone? Wilt, West, Goodrich, Hairston
It's a good group, but they won one title together. And in terms of "oh holy **** that looks good on paper" Lakers teams of that era, I think that the 69-70 Lakers foursome of West, Wilt, Baylor and Hairston is even better on paper. all four players averaged 20 points a game in a single season. I'd have to do a lot of research, but I'd be curious to know if there has ever been another foursome to average 20 PPG apiece in a single season.

Ebbs
09-20-2011, 01:03 AM
Dirk, Terry, Kidd, Chandler :)

(had to.)

kdspurman
09-20-2011, 10:30 AM
MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc
Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper
Gotta throw in my guys, Duncan, Parker, Manu, D-Rob.... One of the more Underrated big 4.

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 10:55 AM
Gotta throw in my guys, Duncan, Parker, Manu, D-Rob.... One of the more Underrated big 4.
Robinson was in his last season and Ginobili was a rookie who averaged 7 PPG on that 2003 championship team. I think you could argue that Stephen Jackson was a much bigger contributor (probably the third best player on that team) than either of those players. You could make a decent case for Duncan, Parker, Jackson, Robinson as a solid foursome, but even that can't really compare to the 60s, 80s and 00s Celtics or the 70s or 80s Lakers.

bagwell368
09-20-2011, 11:21 AM
This is just wrong. Havlicek was 4th in team scoring in 63, first in scoring in 64 and 2nd in scoring in 65. How was he not in the top 4. Are you just guessing here or do you actually have a factual basis for this argument?

Well I wasn't going by scoring alone - that's not a very serious way to do it IMO. I was going by shooting %, rebounding, defense, assists, etc. He was a 6th man expected to provide offense. He wasn't a main pillar of those teams. I started to watch the Celts in 1966, so I missed those years you brought up, but not by much. I certainly heard about them growing up, and have seen a lot of them on tape since. Even though Win Shares is more flawed in that era, take a look at the WS/48 which I just did, #6 one year #8 another and I didn't check the 3rd.


Just because other Celtics teams around this particular team was successful does not make this team any less impressive, because these guys were directly responsible for the championships before that three year span and after that three year span. And even if you say Havlicek is too young or Heinsohn too old (which I would disagree with based on their numbers), all four were still extremely strong players over that three year stretch.

Look, Havlicek is easly one of my 20 favorite players of all time, I'm not dissing him. I'm just trying to put those guys into some order. Russell and Sam Jones were generally the top two guys on the team in that era, with a rotating mix following them up - and I'd say some years its clearly 6-7 deep, other years after '65 its thinner.

Hiensohn started to slip a bit in '63-'64 and was just done in '64-65, actually he was done in the '64 playoffs.

BTW, the '61-'62 team was better then the teams that followed, an SRS of 8.25 and a 60-20 record? Most serious Celtic historians choose that as the best of the Russell teams BTW. The '69 Finals on their last legs/balloon game is probably the most memorable, but doesn't make them the best. Certainly after '65 the offenses and depth went south for those last few years.

bagwell368
09-20-2011, 11:26 AM
How can you possibly take this Celtics foursome over the one I chose? You'd rather have Frank Ramsey over the first four years of Hondo's career? No, Havlicek was not the dominant player he would later become, but he was a better player in 64 and 65 than Ramsey was in 62.

On a single year basis alone the '61-'62 team was better, it's clear, and the top 4 guys were better too.

Vincent33
09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
Magic, Kareem, Worthy, and Scott/Cooper?

Shaq, Kobe, Fish, and Horry?

Bird, Parish, McHale and DJ?

Dumars, Isiah, Rodman, and Laimbeer?

Share your opinion!

Out of those options, I'll take the Celtics' group...only group out of them with all 4 in the HoF.

Mishmin
09-20-2011, 11:49 AM
Celtics got this all day

Bird, Mchale, Parish, DJ

Russell, Jones, Heinson, Havlicek

KG, PP, Allen, Rondo

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 11:55 AM
Well I wasn't going by scoring alone - that's not a very serious way to do it IMO. I was going by shooting %, rebounding, defense, assists, etc. He was a 6th man expected to provide offense. He wasn't a main pillar of those teams. I started to watch the Celts in 1966, so I missed those years you brought up, but not by much. I certainly heard about them growing up, and have seen a lot of them on tape since. Even though Win Shares is more flawed in that era, take a look at the WS/48 which I just did, #6 one year #8 another and I didn't check the 3rd.
But Havlicek was never an efficient scorer and he NEVER posted decent WS/48 numbers over his career. In fact, his first two seasons, his WS/48 were higher than his career average. And I realize that scoring, alone, is not the best way to determine a player's worth, but when we're talking "best foursomes," I'm thinking about the four players who contribute the most to a team, and scoring is generally a pretty good indicator. Havlicek was also top 5 in rebounds and assists for those seasons.


BTW, the '61-'62 team was better then the teams that followed, an SRS of 8.25 and a 60-20 record? Most serious Celtic historians choose that as the best of the Russell teams BTW. The '69 Finals on their last legs/balloon game is probably the most memorable, but doesn't make them the best. Certainly after '65 the offenses and depth went south for those last few years.
I'm not debating that. That was one of the greatest teams in NBA history. But we're not talking "best teams," we're talking "best foursomes." Also, Ramsey only played 16 minutes a night in the 61-62 postseason, so if you wanted to make a case for a big four, I would pick Cousy over him. In fact, I think Russell, Jones, Heinsohn and Cousy would give Russell, Jones, Heinsohn, Havlicek a serious run for its money.

Max Power
09-20-2011, 12:01 PM
A big four that includes Fisher or Michael Cooper is really a big three.

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:02 PM
Actually, after debating it, I've changed my mind a little. I'll take Russell, Jones, Cousy and Heinsohn over the Havlicek team. Cousy was getting up there in age, but everyone else was in their prime and they won five consecutive championships together from 59-63. Throw in Ramsey and Tom Sanders, and that 61-62 team really was ridiculous.

smith&wesson
09-20-2011, 12:30 PM
billups, hamilton,wallace & wallace

kobe, odem, gasol, bynum

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:44 PM
I realize this team never accomplished anything, but they were two games away from a Finals matchup with the Bulls in 97 and it's damn scary on paper...

Hakeem Olajuwon
Clyde Drexler
Charles Barkley
Mario Ellie (no, he never played in an All-Star game, but he might be the most beloved non-star in Houston Rockets history)

mightybosstone
09-20-2011, 12:51 PM
billups, hamilton,wallace & wallace

kobe, odem, gasol, bynum

Both groups won a title, but I don't think either of them will end up with more than two hall of famers. It's possible that Detroit will end up with zero, but something tells me that at least Chauncey Billups makes it and Ben Wallace has an outside shot.

3RDASYSTEM
09-20-2011, 12:52 PM
Isaiah beat Jordan,Magic,Bird and was going off for 20pts in a qtr or half or watever it took and playing on 1 leg in the biggest games on biggest stage? i guess Dumars helped him lead that Indiana team to a title also, come on LLEMON you know you smarter than that,its other way around, Dumars is in cause of ZEKE

i'll take that Sixer Big 4 with Barkley/Erving leading the way but that Chi town Big 4 is nice also

Stack_NJNets
09-20-2011, 01:38 PM
No love for the 04 Pistons? Billups, Rip, Prince, Wallace, and Wallace. Crazy.

Swashcuff
09-20-2011, 01:39 PM
No love for the 04 Pistons? Billups, Rip, Prince, Wallace, and Wallace. Crazy.

Thread title: The Greatest "Big 4" of All-Time

kdspurman
09-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Robinson was in his last season and Ginobili was a rookie who averaged 7 PPG on that 2003 championship team. I think you could argue that Stephen Jackson was a much bigger contributor (probably the third best player on that team) than either of those players. You could make a decent case for Duncan, Parker, Jackson, Robinson as a solid foursome, but even that can't really compare to the 60s, 80s and 00s Celtics or the 70s or 80s Lakers.

True.. Although Robinson was still stellar. Manu was big in the playoffs, and Parker had a great series vs the Lakers. But you have a valid point. I think Duncan, Parker, Manu, and Bowen of 05/07 might even be more formidable

btw... i know they are not the best big 4 of all time, just giving them a shout out!

smith&wesson
09-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Both groups won a title, but I don't think either of them will end up with more than two hall of famers. It's possible that Detroit will end up with zero, but something tells me that at least Chauncey Billups makes it and Ben Wallace has an outside shot.

i didnt know making the hof was a criteria. i thought the pistons team had a strong case at one point billups, rip, wallace & wallace were allstars and they won a ship.

i agree with you i think billups will end up being in the hof. not sure about the rest of them.

llemon
09-20-2011, 02:08 PM
i guess Dumars helped him lead that Indiana team to a title also, come on LLEMON you know you smarter than that,its other way around, Dumars is in cause of ZEKE

Sorry, Dumars the much smarter player than Zeke. Dumars' presense and defensive abilities allowed, at times, Zeke to be the SG he was meant to be.

No way Isiah Thomas has the same kind of career without Dumars.

Catoblepas
09-20-2011, 02:48 PM
Billups, hamilton, Rasheed, Big Ben.
Maybe not the biggest names to remember in history.. but one hell of a combo

bagwell368
09-20-2011, 04:02 PM
But Havlicek was never an efficient scorer and he NEVER posted decent WS/48 numbers over his career. In fact, his first two seasons, his WS/48 were higher than his career average. And I realize that scoring, alone, is not the best way to determine a player's worth, but when we're talking "best foursomes," I'm thinking about the four players who contribute the most to a team, and scoring is generally a pretty good indicator. Havlicek was also top 5 in rebounds and assists for those seasons.

John John also was 2nd in minutes played one of those years. Valuable, but also leads to lower averages in particular w/ the run and gun volume scorer thing early on. Havlicek was also not much of a defender in his early years either.


I'm not debating that. That was one of the greatest teams in NBA history. But we're not talking "best teams," we're talking "best foursomes." Also, Ramsey only played 16 minutes a night in the 61-62 postseason, so if you wanted to make a case for a big four, I would pick Cousy over him. In fact, I think Russell, Jones, Heinsohn and Cousy would give Russell, Jones, Heinsohn, Havlicek a serious run for its money.

It doesn't sound like we are that far apart, I'm not in a mood to battle over this. But don't underestimate how JH's later career influences some to choose him for these 3 years on average.

YR : Name : WS

65: Russell : 16.9
65: S. Jones : 12.8
65: Sanders : 7.5
65: K. Jones : 6.7
65: Hondo : 4.5

64: Russell : 17.3
64: S Jones : 8.9
64: Hondo : 7.7
64: Sanders: 7.6
64: Tommy: 6.2

63: Russell: 13.5
63: S Jones: 9.6
63: Sanders: 6.8
63: Tommy: 6.8
63: Hondo: 6.4

The defensive part of WS in the 60's is lame, no way Hondo was near as good as they claim. Tommy, Sam, and Hondo were not the defenders that KC or Sanders were, never mind Russell. The way they figure DWS is laughable, by cutting Havlicek down to where he belongs, he wouldn't even rate as high as the WS has him.

From these numbers, Russell and S Jones are obvious choices, but Tommy isn't #3 or #4 IMO. Sanders certainly seems to own #3. Hondo seems to get 4th by default.

Havlicek and Heinsohn sounds a lot sexier then Sanders and Havlicek.

bagwell368
09-20-2011, 04:05 PM
Sorry, Dumars the much smarter player than Zeke. Dumars' presense and defensive abilities allowed, at times, Zeke to be the SG he was meant to be.

No way Isiah Thomas has the same kind of career without Dumars.

x2 no question, Dumars was the power behind IT's throne.

Hitman21
09-20-2011, 04:20 PM
this :clap:

x2

Chronz
09-20-2011, 10:00 PM
Thread title: The Greatest "Big 4" of All-Time

Doesnt diminish what he said

Evolution23
09-21-2011, 11:31 PM
billups, hamilton,wallace & wallace

kobe, odem, gasol, bynum

This is a good choice. One of the most balanced and dominating teams i've ever seen.

Lakers + Giants
09-22-2011, 03:05 AM
Most underrated: Billups,Hamilton,Rasheed,Big Ben

Lakers + Giants
09-22-2011, 03:07 AM
Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, and Coach Pop :p