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Mile High Champ
09-18-2011, 09:30 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8)
9)
10)


2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Chris Paul goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Dirk goes off the board, I will add other power forwards.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the top list.

Mile High Champ
09-18-2011, 09:38 PM
It is finally time for Rose to get his due.

Swashcuff
09-18-2011, 09:39 PM
It is finally time for Rose to get his due.

:nod:

jimm120
09-18-2011, 09:45 PM
MELO should go #8 or #9.

Rose could win it, since he does deserve props for winning MVP.

But for Melo, the guy only IMPROVED from the previous year.

-His 3 point shooting went up a lot.
-His defense improved in stretches in NY.
-His clutchness was still there.
-His shooting was still good.

So, he improved from his previous year, when he was the #7 NBA player.

I say:

Carmelo for 8th or 9th
Amare for 10th, at best.

I'll get into my argument for Amare at #10...aww, what the hell. I'll give slight preview: before the season, I had him ranked at around #13. in the 1st half, I feel he worked up all the way up to #8 or #9. But then degressed a bit again. So, to me, he's in the 9 - 12 spot. we'll see.

jimm120
09-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Also, I'm kind of peeved that so many people in previous threads have been ****ing (pooping) over Rose and Melo. Some have been saying that Deron is ahead of these guys.

You know what? If Deron had played well in the 2010-11 season, then yes. But he didn't. He went from a guy ranked in the teens to someone ranked #9 in the previous year. But sadly, he just wasn't that great (or at least top 10) for the 2010-11 season. While in Utah, he was having a great season at 19ppg and 9 ast with respectable percentages(STILL not better than Melo's nor Rose's). Then he went to the Nets and even though he increased his assists to 12 assists per game, he shot around 35% and his scoring plummeted to 14 a game. Oh, then he was OUT for 1/4 of the season.

So, here is how I compare Deron to Melo and Rose:

-Deron scored less than melo or rose, even during the 1st half. The 2nd half was a disaster.
-Deron made shot at a lower rate, compared to rose or melo, especially in the 2nd half.
-Deron missed 1/4 of the season. I'd understand if it was only 2 weeks. But it was something much longer.


So yeah. Just wanted to get that off my chest. Deron CAN be the #2 PG (or hell, even #1) in the league, but he wasn't last season. He was the year before (2009), but he wasn't in 2010. Just can't fathom people wanting to vote for Deron over Melo or Rose AT ALL...and its been a discussion in the other threads since the #5. Its ludicrous. I'd understand if Deron has a bounce back season, but he hasn't so far.

Avenged
09-18-2011, 10:00 PM
Rose by a mile. ;)

ShakeN'Bake
09-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Rose then Melo

Swashcuff
09-18-2011, 10:09 PM
MELO should go #8 or #9.

Rose could win it, since he does deserve props for winning MVP.

But for Melo, the guy only IMPROVED from the previous year.

-His 3 point shooting went up a lot.
-His defense improved in stretches in NY.
-His clutchness was still there.
-His shooting was still good.

So, he improved from his previous year, when he was the #7 NBA player.

I say:

Carmelo for 8th or 9th
Amare for 10th, at best.

I'll get into my argument for Amare at #10...aww, what the hell. I'll give slight preview: before the season, I had him ranked at around #13. in the 1st half, I feel he worked up all the way up to #8 or #9. But then degressed a bit again. So, to me, he's in the 9 - 12 spot. we'll see.

The only improvement Melo made all of last season was his 3 point shooting when he went to NY. Rose improved in every single aspect of his basketball with the exception of his mid range shooting.

Rose wins this quite easily. Better on both sides of the floor, accumulates more offense and has Melo beat hands down in damn near every statistical category there is.

jimm120
09-18-2011, 10:16 PM
hence why I said 8th or 9th.

Dirk really didn't improve but his finals run raised his spot. Deron falls off, replaced by Rose. Timmy not here anymore. I understand Melo falling with teh improvements by some players.

Knicks21
09-18-2011, 10:19 PM
pooh.

Baller1
09-18-2011, 10:23 PM
I gave Rose my vote.

Swashcuff
09-18-2011, 10:33 PM
hence why I said 8th or 9th.

Dirk really didn't improve but his finals run raised his spot. Deron falls off, replaced by Rose. Timmy not here anymore. I understand Melo falling with teh improvements by some players.

We are currently 8th AND you voted Melo. Rose surpassed him this past season.

Oh and who said Dirk did not improve? Dirk had the most efficient season of his entire career this pass season.

KnicksorBust
09-18-2011, 10:42 PM
Rose.

On a completely unrelated note, I still love my sig and avatar.

beasted86
09-18-2011, 10:45 PM
I'd love to hear the argument for Carmelo over Rose.

MJ-BULLS
09-18-2011, 10:48 PM
A serious case of DRose.

TheRunKiller
09-18-2011, 10:54 PM
Rose by a mile. ;)

:nod:

Ezio
09-18-2011, 11:13 PM
Hmm got to go see the arguments for CP3 > Dirk. But yeah Rose for this spot. Also the next spot should be interesting :)

Hellcrooner
09-18-2011, 11:15 PM
you can end this failure now.

Rose goes 8s.

Knicks homers vote Melo at 9 strategically and then Stou at 10 ( if they voted stou first they could face a melo elimination).

Sadds The Gr8
09-18-2011, 11:16 PM
Derrick MVP Rose. it gets tough after this

Chacarron
09-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Axl Rose.

jimm120
09-18-2011, 11:28 PM
teh thing is that Stoudamire doesn't deserve to be over Melo.

Melo was 7th last year. He did not do worse. Its that certain people did better (Dirk, Rose). That is why he's falling.

Rose doing better is what will knock Deron out of the top 10 (not to say that Deron's own poor play also helped him drop out of the top 10).

But the thing is that Stat and Melo...Melo was #7 and is dropping only because of those guys.

Stat is a strange case, for me at least. To me, he was around #13 before the season (I ranked Bosh around #15). To me, Stat really improved, especially during the 1st half. He played at an MVP level (hey, just like Rose!) and I had him around #8 or #9 during that time. But his play tempered off in early January. But he still played better than #13 during the 2nd half. So, I definitely have him at a 9th to 12th spot.

Personally, I have him ranked around #11. the average of the #13 before the season, and the #8/9 ranking he had during the first half of the season. But I'll vote for him in the #10 because there IS an argument to be made.

And really, don't see how Stat can get more votes than Melo. Hopefully NY fans don't go out and split the votes too much. Stat is the obvious 2nd on the team. Only way is if he has a season like his 1st half during 2010. Then he overtakes Melo. But now.


I just don't want Deron on this list. EVERYONE else either improved or stayed the same. Deron played at the "same" level as 2009 during the 1st half (eg. #9 ranking), but the 2nd half was very, very poor (around #15+ ranking). Then you take into account that he opted to miss 1/4 of the season (dick move by him to do that to the Nets...he could have played till the end...hurt, but still played...and now he went to europe...guy doesn't seem to like NJ at all). The guy just doesn't belong in the top 10 this year. But I DO believe that he can be top 10 again. I still feel he's the #2 PG in teh game. But he wasn't in 2010...which is what I think we're voting for. He needs to get his butt in gear again in 2011 to get back in.

Baller1
09-18-2011, 11:32 PM
Deron at 9, Melo at 10.

29$JerZ
09-18-2011, 11:35 PM
I'd love to hear the argument for Carmelo over Rose.

Homerism

29$JerZ
09-18-2011, 11:38 PM
I think Crooner is voting for Amare so Pau is available next :laugh2:

Baller1
09-18-2011, 11:40 PM
I think Crooner is voting for Amare so Pau is available next :laugh2:

He did it at #7 as well.

jimm120
09-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Deron at 9, Melo at 10.

lol, deron at 9?

How?

the guy REGRESSED a lot this year. Did you not see that 35% FG%? Sorry, I also think that Deron is better than Rose as a PG, but Rose went up. Deron went down. No way that someone that played so poorly and then opted to miss 1/4 of the season deserve a top 10 spot, even if he was #9 the previous year.

So, melo improves (3 point shooting) and goes from #7 to #10 in your mind. But Deron, who had a bad year, goes stays at the #9 spot? Really?

I'm ok with any order of this list, but one thing I would be peeved about is if Deron Williams somehow made it to the top 10 this year. Last year, he deserved it. If he has a good 2011 season, he'll deserve it. His 2010 season, though, does not.

jimm120
09-19-2011, 12:04 AM
I'd love to hear the argument for Carmelo over Rose.


Homerism

I don't think there's been ONE person in the topic say anything about Melo being better than Rose in 2010.

I loathe Rose. But I understand quite perfectly that he had a spectacular year. He deserved to go higher than #8. To me, he was above many of these players on the list. around #4 to #6.

THE GIPPER
09-19-2011, 12:23 AM
rose here carmelo next

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 12:32 AM
I don't think there's been ONE person in the topic say anything about Melo being better than Rose in 2010.

I loathe Rose. But I understand quite perfectly that he had a spectacular year. He deserved to go higher than #8. To me, he was above many of these players on the list. around #4 to #6.

So why in heaven's name did you vote Carmelo?

chicago lulz
09-19-2011, 12:47 AM
Poohdini :D

MELO7NYK/DENfan
09-19-2011, 12:58 AM
Rose, lead that bulls team to the best record and he suprised alot of people this year but i knew he was going to have a great year. Then melo after him he could be a top 5 player if he motivated adn even top 3 i knw i will get called homer cuz i think that.

meloman1592
09-19-2011, 01:01 AM
Rose because of his mvp campaign..i still think melo is a better player though

Hellcrooner
09-19-2011, 01:03 AM
I think Crooner is voting for Amare so Pau is available next :laugh2:

its a spit to the sistem vote that ive been trhowing around since pick 7

Baller1
09-19-2011, 01:27 AM
lol, deron at 9?

How?

the guy REGRESSED a lot this year. Did you not see that 35% FG%? Sorry, I also think that Deron is better than Rose as a PG, but Rose went up. Deron went down. No way that someone that played so poorly and then opted to miss 1/4 of the season deserve a top 10 spot, even if he was #9 the previous year.

So, melo improves (3 point shooting) and goes from #7 to #10 in your mind. But Deron, who had a bad year, goes stays at the #9 spot? Really?

I'm ok with any order of this list, but one thing I would be peeved about is if Deron Williams somehow made it to the top 10 this year. Last year, he deserved it. If he has a good 2011 season, he'll deserve it. His 2010 season, though, does not.

He shouldn't have been #7 last year, so yes, he's falling to #10 on my list.

naps
09-19-2011, 02:20 AM
its a spit to the sistem vote that ive been trhowing around since pick 7

Why being a homer? Why not be different and set examples? Or you truly believed Gasol would be voted in #8? What is it?

mkdo
09-19-2011, 02:26 AM
The only improvement Melo made all of last season was his 3 point shooting when he went to NY. Rose improved in every single aspect of his basketball with the exception of his mid range shooting.

Rose wins this quite easily. Better on both sides of the floor, accumulates more offense and has Melo beat hands down in damn near every statistical category there is.

yeah right :confused:

who would not improve from a 27% 3point shooting? he's got 33% and now he's god? :speechless:
and oh i forgot the assist improvement. isn't he supposed to be a point guard?

man improvement doesn't make you better than the consistent ones.

try to trade monta ellis for rose. i think is better on offense and its the team that plays defense anyway. :p

alvinsmith
09-19-2011, 02:48 AM
I vote for Derrick Rose...

home electricity monitor (http://currentcost.net/) | energy efficiency (http://currentcost.net/)

Chill_Will_24
09-19-2011, 05:29 AM
Rose HAS to go here. Anyone else is just wrong

NBA-GMaster
09-19-2011, 06:41 AM
8. Rose, 9. Anthony and then 10. Williams

SteBO
09-19-2011, 08:27 AM
Rose here without question.

ManningToTyree
09-19-2011, 08:40 AM
Rose

Hawkeye15
09-19-2011, 09:35 AM
Rose here

Avenged
09-19-2011, 11:20 AM
So this system will ensure that either Deron, Melo, or Amare get the 9 spot?

edit: I think you should add more options now. :shrug:

ragee
09-19-2011, 11:27 AM
Rose then D-Will.

DaBUU
09-19-2011, 11:34 AM
Rose, then Melo next. I surprisingly don't hate this list so far.

mightybosstone
09-19-2011, 11:50 AM
Rose should easily win this. And while I understand the format for these votes, if it were MY top 10, I'd go... 9. Deron Williams, 10. Pau Gasol. And I'd also take Paul Pierce over Carmelo at 11, but most people would disagree with me...

Evolution23
09-19-2011, 03:24 PM
wow Carmelo Anthony is up here? They way people underrate him on PSD I thought he was top 25.

Evolution23
09-19-2011, 03:25 PM
Rose.

On a completely unrelated note, I still love my sig and avatar.

make me one dog

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 06:20 PM
So this system will ensure that either Deron, Melo, or Amare get the 9 spot?

edit: I think you should add more options now. :shrug:

Agreed

Chronz
09-19-2011, 06:37 PM
It sucks that we have no choice but to vote for these guys but we had our chance and blew it.

mightybosstone
09-19-2011, 06:44 PM
It sucks that we have no choice but to vote for these guys but we had our chance and blew it.

Would it be the worst thing in the world to add a Pau Gasol option or a couple of other players with the next vote? I hardly think anyone would start a riot over a slight rule change for a poll on an online forum.

northsider
09-19-2011, 06:52 PM
I think Rose at 8 is perfectly fair.

Sadds The Gr8
09-19-2011, 06:56 PM
So this system will ensure that either Deron, Melo, or Amare get the 9 spot?

edit: I think you should add more options now. :shrug:

then that beats the purpose of doing this whole thing. the whole point of doing this 5 player thing was to make sure worse players didn't get voted before better players at their own position. I know most of the logical posters don't like it, but the majority of PSD voted those guys so this system should stay. can't have it both ways.

b_russ
09-19-2011, 06:57 PM
It sucks that we have no choice but to vote for these guys but we had our chance and blew it.

yep. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEOBr0uajJI)

mightybosstone
09-19-2011, 07:13 PM
then that beats the purpose of doing this whole thing. the whole point of doing this 5 player thing was to make sure worse players didn't get voted before better players at their own position. I know most of the logical posters don't like it, but the majority of PSD voted those guys so this system should stay. can't have it both ways.

Why not? It's PSD's list. What would happen if someone changed the rules to allow for more players? I don't believe it's a felony and I don't recall the "Thou shalt not change rules of online forum polls" commandment of The Bible.

And frankly, if you had 10 polls to ask PSD posters whether Amare or Gasol was a better player, and you allowed various times for each poll, I'm guessing the results would probably end up around five apiece for each player. Should we penalize Gasol because that one poll wasn't in his favor? For all we know, a second chance and Gasol could crack this top 10.

unleashthebeast
09-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Rose then Dwill then Melo, at least in my opinion

jimm120
09-19-2011, 09:31 PM
Wow , i cany believe that people are so anti NY.

You rig the poll so that nit all players can show up and hurting some players. Then when its time for those players to get on (melo), you try to rig it again .

Deron had a HORRIBLE YEAR. Ok, his 1st half was near his #9 ranking from the year before, but then he went out and scored 14 ppg on 35% shooting. Yeah, his assists went up, but his offense was a huge liability. OH, then he WAS OUT FOR 1/4 of the season.

He digressed. I DO BELIEVE that he can be a top 10 player and the 2nd best PG...but not last year. He just didnt do great enough jn the first half. He did pretty bad during the 2nd half. Then he missed 1/4 of the season.

No way you can tell me he held on to his #9 ranking or managed to be as good as rose or melo. Hell, pau and amare too. Deron just didnt do as good this year.

I laugh at the people saying that deron should be in the top 10 this year. Just no way tha other players imprive (dirk, melo, rose, amare) and some stay the same (pau)...and yet derin who fell off considera ly is argued above these guys.

RZZZA
09-19-2011, 09:34 PM
^ regressed bro, not digressed.

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 09:45 PM
Wow , i cany believe that people are so anti NY.

You rig the poll so that nit all players can show up and hurting some players. Then when its time for those players to get on (melo), you try to rig it again .

Deron had a HORRIBLE YEAR. Ok, his 1st half was near his #9 ranking from the year before, but then he went out and scored 14 ppg on 35% shooting. Yeah, his assists went up, but his offense was a huge liability. OH, then he WAS OUT FOR 1/4 of the season.

He digressed. I DO BELIEVE that he can be a top 10 player and the 2nd best PG...but not last year. He just didnt do great enough jn the first half. He did pretty bad during the 2nd half. Then he missed 1/4 of the season.

No way you can tell me he held on to his #9 ranking or managed to be as good as rose or melo. Hell, pau and amare too. Deron just didnt do as good this year.

I laugh at the people saying that deron should be in the top 10 this year. Just no way tha other players imprive (dirk, melo, rose, amare) and some stay the same (pau)...and yet derin who fell off considera ly is argued above these guys.

No one is hating on NY when will you guys realize this?

A STRONG case can be made for Deron ahead of Melo even after having taken a step back this past season. Let's hear your reason's exactly as to why Deron doesn't deserve it and please support you opinion with some factual evidence. Maybe you'd sway posters votes in Melo's favour.

OGMarkWahlberg
09-19-2011, 09:57 PM
Rose, I think D Will and Melo are better players but Rose had the superior season last year

Mishmin
09-19-2011, 10:23 PM
Rose here,

But for the next spot, right now I have Amare rated higher than Melo.

jimm120
09-19-2011, 10:45 PM
No one is hating on NY when will you guys realize this?

A STRONG case can be made for Deron ahead of Melo even after having taken a step back this past season. Let's hear your reason's exactly as to why Deron doesn't deserve it and please support you opinion with some factual evidence. Maybe you'd sway posters votes in Melo's favour.

What! Didnt you read? I'll put it simple:

-1st half played sligt worse than the #9 ranking by going 19ppg and 9 ast with ok shooting percentages.

-2nd half was really, really bad. 14ppg on 35% shooting. Assists might have gone up, but his scorig AND efficiency worsened.

-he opted to miss 1/4 of the season. He had one of those injuries thar he could play through till after the season. He opted not to. He missed a long time.


Why did melo, rose, pau, and amare get ahead of him or stay infront?

-Melo played THE same as his #7 ranking.
-Melo was the top rebounding SF.
-Melo's 3 point shooting improved dramatically from the previous year.
-melo continued to score at elite levels

-Rose played at mvp levels during the 2nd half
-rose won mvp
-Rose juet flat out played better and put up much better stats.

-Amare played at mvp levels in the 1st half.
- amare was a 2 blocks a game guy

-pau played same as ever
-Pau had a bad time durin the playoffs


And you're telling me that Deron deserves to be over ANY of these guys, even though even his 1st half numbers (19 ppg and 9 ast on good percentages) were not better than these other players' numbers.

Really.


I've said it before, I like Deron. I think he's an elite pg and CAN to be the #2 pg again. But he needs to have a better year and NOT miss so much time; NOT play so bad for 1/2 the the season; And improve on his 1st half.


I said most ofnthis inmy previous pos yet you say i said nothing factual

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 11:09 PM
What! Didnt you read? I'll put it simple:

-1st half played sligt worse than the #9 ranking by going 19ppg and 9 ast with ok shooting percentages.

Wrong


-2nd half was really, really bad. 14ppg on 35% shooting. Assists might have gone up, but his scorig AND efficiency worsened.

Wrong again


-he opted to miss 1/4 of the season. He had one of those injuries thar he could play through till after the season. He opted not to. He missed a long time.

Wrong for the 3rd time


Why did melo, rose, pau, and amare get ahead of him or stay infront?

-Melo played THE same as his #7 ranking.
-Melo was the top rebounding SF.
-Melo's 3 point shooting improved dramatically from the previous year.
-melo continued to score at elite levels

One correct thing here is that he improved he 3 point shooting. Everything else wrong.


-Rose played at mvp levels during the 2nd half
-rose won mvp
-Rose juet flat out played better and put up much better stats.

Did you see me mention anything about Derrick Rose? Did you read?


-Amare played at mvp levels in the 1st half.
- amare was a 2 blocks a game guy

Point being?


-pau played same as ever
-Pau had a bad time durin the playoffs

That doesn't mean that Deron couldn't be argued ahead of him regardless.


And you're telling me that Deron deserves to be over ANY of these guys, even though even his 1st half numbers (19 ppg and 9 ast on good percentages) were not better than these other players' numbers.

Really.

I said he just as strong a case as any of those guys. Oh and again wrong.


I've said it before, I like Deron. I think he's an elite pg and CAN to be the #2 pg again. But he needs to have a better year and NOT miss so much time; NOT play so bad for 1/2 the the season; And improve on his 1st half.

I said most ofnthis inmy previous pos yet you say i said nothing factual

Deron regressed but he was still a more efficient and valuable player than Melo. I don't really see any facts in your argument. At his position Deron still remained a better defensive player than both Amar'e and Carmelo at theirs.

IMO he still has as strong a case for 9,10,11 as any other player.


Player PER TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
Carmelo Anthony 21.7 .557 .487 11.8 14.7 1.2 1.3 10.4 32.0 109 5.4 2.5 7.9 0.138
Pau Gasol 23.3 .589 .530 15.6 15.1 0.8 3.3 9.8 21.8 123 10.0 4.7 14.7 0.232
A Stoudemire 22.7 .565 .505 12.7 13.2 1.2 3.8 12.5 30.9 109 5.4 2.6 8.0 0.134
Deron Williams 21.1 .566 .493 6.3 45.9 1.7 0.5 16.6 25.8 114 6.2 1.1 7.3 0.142

Do you really think Melo is soooo deserving of being over Deron that it's not debatable? If you do then you're severely mistaken. From a statistical POV Melo and Amar'e certainly do not have a stronger case than Deron despite his sub par season.

Deron was more efficient than Melo, had more WS/48 and accounted for more offense than Carmelo did for his team and a much higher % of his team's offense as well.

jimm120
09-19-2011, 11:26 PM
The word WRONG is very factual.

Didnt i just point out how inefficient he was during the 2nd half

Wrong

You can be efficient. Perkins was very efficient, but 10 ppg does not compare to howards' 23 ppg.

Melo was at the top at rebounding for sf.

Wrong

Wrong wrong

That isnt factual. All you did was put a "efficiency" stat, in which all i mentioned were better. Plus, they put up MORE than what deron did in his time.

Wrong

Wrong

14 ppg and 12 assists on 35% shooting (just to put a random stat at the end that makes ONE POINT...but just say "wrong" at evrrything else).


Wrong



Pau, amare, rose, and melo deserve to be over deron this year.

Hell, a good argument can be had for westbrook too

Wrong

Avenged
09-19-2011, 11:26 PM
Player PER TS% eFG% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
Carmelo Anthony 21.7 .557 .487 11.8 14.7 1.2 1.3 10.4 32.0 109 5.4 2.5 7.9 0.138
Pau Gasol 23.3 .589 .530 15.6 15.1 0.8 3.3 9.8 21.8 123 10.0 4.7 14.7 0.232
A Stoudemire 22.7 .565 .505 12.7 13.2 1.2 3.8 12.5 30.9 109 5.4 2.6 8.0 0.134
Deron Williams 21.1 .566 .493 6.3 45.9 1.7 0.5 16.6 25.8 114 6.2 1.1 7.3 0.142

Do you really think Melo is soooo deserving of being over Deron that it's not debatable? If you do then you're severely mistaken. From a statistical POV Melo and Amar'e certainly do not have a stronger case than Deron despite his sub par season.

Deron was more efficient than Melo, had more WS/48 and accounted for more offense than Carmelo did for his team and a much higher % of his team's offense as well.

Damn, so Deron had a mediocre season for his standards but still managed to be on par and even beat out Melo in some areas? That's just sad.

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 11:33 PM
The word WRONG is very factual.

Didnt i just point out how inefficient he was during the 2nd half

Wrong

You can be efficient. Perkins was very efficient, but 10 ppg does not compare to howards' 23 ppg.

Melo was at the top at rebounding for sf.

Wrong

Wrong wrong

That isnt factual. All you did was put a "efficiency" stat, in which all i mentioned were better. Plus, they put up MORE than what deron did in his time.

Wrong

Wrong

14 ppg and 12 assists on 35% shooting (just to put a random stat at the end that makes ONE POINT...but just say "wrong" at evrrything else).


Wrong



Pau, amare, rose, and melo deserve to be over deron this year.

Hell, a good argument can be had for westbrook too

Wrong

You clearly lack basic reading comprehension skills.

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Damn, so Deron had a mediocre season for his standards but still managed to be on par and even beat out Melo in some areas? That's just sad.

IMO what hurts Deron most this year is his play in NJ and the end of his time as a member of the Jazz. He wasn't a very happy camper and really caused the whole Jerry Sloan issue. His play on the court wasn't as great as past seasons but he wasn't as half as bad as many are making him out to be.

Chill_Will_24
09-19-2011, 11:36 PM
What! Didnt you read? I'll put it simple:

-1st half played sligt worse than the #9 ranking by going 19ppg and 9 ast with ok shooting percentages.

-2nd half was really, really bad. 14ppg on 35% shooting. Assists might have gone up, but his scorig AND efficiency worsened.

-he opted to miss 1/4 of the season. He had one of those injuries thar he could play through till after the season. He opted not to. He missed a long time.


Why did melo, rose, pau, and amare get ahead of him or stay infront?

-Melo played THE same as his #7 ranking.
-Melo was the top rebounding SF.
-Melo's 3 point shooting improved dramatically from the previous year.
-melo continued to score at elite levels

-Rose played at mvp levels during the 2nd half
-rose won mvp
-Rose juet flat out played better and put up much better stats.

-Amare played at mvp levels in the 1st half.
- amare was a 2 blocks a game guy

-pau played same as ever
-Pau had a bad time durin the playoffs


And you're telling me that Deron deserves to be over ANY of these guys, even though even his 1st half numbers (19 ppg and 9 ast on good percentages) were not better than these other players' numbers.

Really.


I've said it before, I like Deron. I think he's an elite pg and CAN to be the #2 pg again. But he needs to have a better year and NOT miss so much time; NOT play so bad for 1/2 the the season; And improve on his 1st half.


I said most ofnthis inmy previous pos yet you say i said nothing factual

First of all the time he missed was dues to the fact that his wife was in labor... then the Nets didnt want to take any more chances with his wrist because he could aggravate it and the Nets weren't playing for anything when he was there so why take the risk?

Second, Deron was playing out of skill. He didnt know the plays or the offense of anything. He just went out there and did the best with what he had and he made Kris Humphries and Brook Lopez look like stars. His shooting wrist was busted. What did you expect? I was not surprised that his efficiency and fg% dropped. The Nets were a mess when he got there

Swashcuff
09-19-2011, 11:39 PM
First of all the time he missed was dues to the fact that his wife was in labor... then the Nets didnt want to take any more chances with his wrist because he could aggravate it and the Nets weren't playing for anything when he was there so why take the risk?

Second, Deron was playing out of skill. He didnt know the plays or the offense of anything. He just went out there and did the best with what he had and he made Kris Humphries and Brook Lopez look like stars. His shooting wrist was busted. What did you expect? I was not surprised that his efficiency and fg% dropped. The Nets were a mess when he got there

All the #s he posted too were wrong in one way or the other though.

Chill_Will_24
09-19-2011, 11:47 PM
All the #s he posted too were wrong in one way or the other though.

Yea but you were already tearing into him pretty gud on his statistical "facts" so i wanted to let you claim all the glory when he finally loses the debate

ewmania
09-20-2011, 12:18 AM
i voted for d-rose

next im going for my man melo

theheatles
09-20-2011, 11:39 AM
the word wrong is very factual.

Didnt i just point out how inefficient he was during the 2nd half

wrong

you can be efficient. Perkins was very efficient, but 10 ppg does not compare to howards' 23 ppg.

Melo was at the top at rebounding for sf.

Wrong

wrong wrong

that isnt factual. All you did was put a "efficiency" stat, in which all i mentioned were better. Plus, they put up more than what deron did in his time.

Wrong

wrong

14 ppg and 12 assists on 35% shooting (just to put a random stat at the end that makes one point...but just say "wrong" at evrrything else).


Wrong



pau, amare, rose, and melo deserve to be over deron this year.

Hell, a good argument can be had for westbrook too

wrong

wrong!

JasonJohnHorn
09-20-2011, 12:15 PM
Isnt if funny how the guy that wins the MVP award is only ranked as the 8th best player in the league? Though I imgaine Steve Nash wouldnt have even cracked the top ten during his back-to-back MVP awards. Funny how that works out.

juno10
09-20-2011, 12:51 PM
Isnt if funny how the guy that wins the MVP award is only ranked as the 8th best player in the league? Though I imgaine Steve Nash wouldnt have even cracked the top ten during his back-to-back MVP awards. Funny how that works out.

the real MVP was ranked 2nd.

Cubs Win
09-20-2011, 12:56 PM
the real MVP was ranked 2nd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6468133

ESPN and all the other media outlets reported that the wrong guy won?!?? :speechless:

The_Pharouh
09-20-2011, 02:05 PM
Derrick Rose

Ovratd1up
09-20-2011, 10:39 PM
IMO what hurts Deron most this year is his play in NJ and the end of his time as a member of the Jazz. He wasn't a very happy camper and really caused the whole Jerry Sloan issue. His play on the court wasn't as great as past seasons but he wasn't as half as bad as many are making him out to be.

Definitely. Even for the dip in scoring, a big part of which can be attributed to a new (bad) team, I was very impressed with his ability to assist teammates he'd never played with before. I don't think he's regressed as a player at all, just had a mediocre performance and a lot of turmoil last season.

Also: Anyone notice that Deron was the only guy to average 20/10 with assists last season?

Swashcuff
09-20-2011, 10:47 PM
Definitely. Even for the dip in scoring, a big part of which can be attributed to a new (bad) team, I was very impressed with his ability to assist teammates he'd never played with before. I don't think he's regressed as a player at all, just had a mediocre performance and a lot of turmoil last season.

Also: Anyone notice that Deron was the only guy to average 20/10 with assists last season?

Indeed he was. So could someone tell me a man has such a horrible season (totally off tangent actually was one of his best in certain aspects) and still gets 20/10 effectively and efficiently? He has a strong case at #9 regardless.

bholly
09-21-2011, 03:40 AM
Mile High,
Huge vote for not changing the system now, like some are suggesting. As was the case in the earlier rounds, you can't base the system on what benefits the candidates you like, so we shouldn't change it now just because people don't like the options.
(I know you haven't indicated that you would change it, I'm just getting my vote in in case you're thinking about it as others are suggesting.)

I'd also love if you expanded it to 20 or so this year. Maybe even just keep going until one of the positional top-10s runs out of candidates to put up.