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phlp_bj
09-16-2011, 10:00 PM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the playoff voting for the PSD NBA Redraft. Every year we basketball fans enjoy taking part in a PSD game called the NBA redraft where over 60 users participate. The point of the redraft is to draft the best team possible and the obvious goal is to be crowned champion by the NBA forum. You will notice that the team name do not represent current NBA teams. The reason why we avoided this is because we wanted to avoid a bias that exists with current team names. For example, a team that had the Chicago Bulls team name would probably experience a higher volume of votes than let’s say the Memphis Grizzlies team simply because they have the larger fan base on PSD. As a result we got rid of that bias completely. Please take the time to review both teams, look at the depth chart and read the write ups to formalize your own opinion on which team would win a 7 game series. As far as injuries go, they will not be playing a factor in this Redraft though players that are continually hurt and have not had a healthy season in quite some time should be viewed as different players than what they once were (Yao, Oden, Roy etc). Thank you for voting and enjoy the match ups.

2) Providence vs. 4) Syracuse

Providence has home court advantage

Providence Depth Chart:
PG: Mo Williams / Eric Bledsoe
SG: Dwyane Wade/ Deshawn Stevenson / Xavier Henry
SF: Shane Battier / Omri Casspi
PF: Chris Bosh / Udonis Haslem
C: Brendan Haywood / Joel Przybilla / Jason Collins

Syracuse Depth Chart:
PG: Deron Williams - Keyon Dooling
SG: Ray Allen - Gary Neal - Marquis Daniels
SF: Nicholas Batum - Chase Budinger
PF: Andrea Bargnani - Boris Diaw
C: Emeka Okafor - Spencer Hawes - Dexter Pittman

Providence Writeup:

First off congratulations to Syracuse and their GMs Corey and Unleashthebeast on advancing into the Conference Finals. They worked very hard in this redraft and built a formidable team.

PG: Mo Williams vs. Deron Williams

Obviously Syracuse wins this matchup, however this does not mean we don’t get key contributions from the PG position. Deron Williams is an amazing player and surely will get his, however I do not see a consistent number 2 scorer he can defer the ball to. Ray Allen and Bargs might be good shooters, but they can’t create their own jumpshots or consistently score while Emeka Okafor isn’t any threat. Deron has shined when having a consistent low post threat like Carlos Boozer or Al Jefferson. This is why we feel that we can try to limit Deron Williams by shadowing other players towards his side. Our big men will extend on pick n rolls and focus on stopping the ball first. I would rather trust our team defense with players like Wade, Battier, and Haywood to be able to rotate quick enough, rather than let Deron get where he wants. For us we have Mo Williams who is a super quick threat of offense and also brings his amazing 3 pt shooting. When he was in Cleveland playing with Lebron he was getting wide open looks and even became an all-star. I believe Dwyane Wade could help him in this way. This is why we believe he can shoot similarly to how he did with a superstar (43% + from 3) and will surely make Deron work to chase him on while on offense. Mo Williams also averaged a fair amount of assists with Cleveland (6 apg), however he will not have to carry the load since Wade has averaged almost 8 assists when used as a primary ball handler.

SG: Dwyane Wade vs. Ray Allen

This is one matchup where we feel will put us over the top in this series. Dwyane Wade just last season abused Ray Allen in the playoffs and averaged 30 PPG, 7 RPG, 5 APG, and 2 SPG on excellent 53% shooting. Now there are two key things you have to take into account heading into this series. One is the fact that Ray Allen will be one year older meaning he will be slower and even easier to attack. The second thing you have to take into account are his teammates. In Boston he was playing with Rajon Rondo, an all-nba defender, Kevin Garnett, an all-nba defender and Paul Pierce who is really underrated. Now in this matchup he has Okafor who is a solid defensive player, but he also has Andrea B. backing him up who is just putrid on defense to say the least. We expect Wade to score similarly in this series and take over the game. On the defensive end, Wade is an extremely good, tenacious defender. While Ray Allen is known for being able to get open off of screens, we feel that he won’t get as many open looks as he does in Boston. Also in the playoffs, Wade did indeed hold him slightly below his average. If Ray Allen is held to his averaged of around 15 or 16 a night, we’d be just fine.

SF: Shane Battier vs. Nicolas Batum

The matchup at small forward is pretty even. To be honest, I would give Batum the slight edge offensively with Battier getting the edge defensively. Both of these guys are asked to be role players and contribute to their team’s success. For us, Battier will be the “ultimate glue guy”. Battier is a true team player and can fit in any system. He shoots 39% from 3pt range making him a legitimate threat (as Wade + Bosh draw double teams). He also brings his veteran, savvy defense, which is anchored, on his intelligence and instinct. We feel that Battier will score around double digits in this series due to open looks and be able to limit Batum to about the same. Overall, this matchup is probably a wash with both players putting up similar production.

PF: Chris Bosh vs. Andrea Bargnani

At PF, we have the battle between the two former teammates. Honestly, matchup is brutally unfair for Syracuse. Chris Bosh is a top power forward in the league and is a perfect no.2 option to Dwyane Wade. The pick n roll/pop between them against Ray and Andrea will be unguardable. Bosh is great at drawing contact around the hoop and probably has the 2nd best mid-range game for a big man (after Dirk). While Bosh is so skilled on offense, Bargs is one of the league’s worst defenders and rebounders for his position. We will feed the ball to Bosh and consistently attack Bargs as we expect Bosh could average 25 and 10 in this series. On the defensive end, Bargs has the “reputation” for being a great shooter. However, when you see his actual numbers, you shouldn’t be worried when facing him. Bargs shot an abysmal 45% last year as a big man and for somebody who can supposedly stretch the floor, he shot 34% from 3. Now, Chris Bosh may be slow on rotations at times, however his man to man defense alone, is actually average to possibly above average. We are quite comfortable allowing Bargs to shoot considering his inefficiency will more than likely hurt his team than help. Plus, he might be even more inefficient as he has to fight against Bosh on defense and attempt to secure rebounds, which is a struggle for him. Now, if Syracuse puts Okafor on Bosh this is no problem for us. Having Okafor on Bosh is still a huge advantage for us as Okafor is a better post defender than he is moving farther from the basket. One thing also to consider is the effect Wade will have. IMAGINE, Dwyane Wade breaking down defenses and once he gets to the hoop who will be the last man there, Andre Bargnani. I will gladly, maybe even hope they put Okafor on Bosh, so Wade can make a living off the line and average 35+ a night.

C: Brendan Haywood vs. Emeka Okafor

Now this matchup right here, may not be seen on the statsheet, but could help both teams succeed. Emeka Okafor and Brendan Haywood have both had their share of dunk posters last postseason (ex. Kobe on Emeka, KD on Brendan), however both players are really good defenders and average offensive players. For us Haywood will be getting a fair amount of minutes, just like he did with the Wizards. When playing for them and knowing he was a starter Brendan either put up double doubles, or very near those numbers with a few blocks on a consistent basis. For us, he will bring defense, rebounding, and the ability to set screens. One way, we plan on taking Okafor out of the equation is by setting a lot of screens. Syracuse will have two options on the Mo Williams/Wade pick n roll. They can double one of those guys and not allow an open shot or layup OR they will have to hope Haywood misses open dunks since both players are capable of finding him…either way we will score points. Now Okafor to us isn’t a huge scoring threat so we aren’t that worried. Him and Haywood will go at it for rebounds and blocks, but in reality both players pretty much cancel each other and provide the same attributes to their respective teams. This is why we feel this matchup is also basically a wash since neither player really separates themselves from one another.

Bench: Bledsoe, Stevenson, Casspi, Haslem, Pryzbila vs. Dooling, Neal, Budinger, Diaw, Hawes

The bench in this series will make an enormous impact just like we saw in the NBA Finals. On our team we have two key contributors from both clubs. Deshawn Stevenson is a tough, hard-nosed player who can hit the 3 and bring some swag to our team. Off the bench he play his heart out and could even finish games and guard multiple positions if need be. Now, Udonis Haslem in this is completely HEALTHY. UD is one of the hardest working, blue-collar players in the nba today. Udonis will provide more than just his usually very good rebounding, good mid-range jumpshot, and great defense, he will bring his leadership and veteran demeanor few others can match. With the ability to play and guard multiple positions as well, look for Haslem to score in the double digits and receive substantial playing time as he takes advantage of Diaw or Bargnani. Now, the other three guys we have Bledsoe, Casspi, and Pryzbilla will all fill a role and contribute in one way or another. Bledseo will bring a spark off the bench and will challenge the elderly Dooling to keep up. Casspi is a decent scorer in limited minutes and will play within his game. Pryzbilla is a big body who can do a little bit of everything, but will mostly be asked to provide volume rebounding. Now, we personally feel our bench is very, very good and that even if we switch out a player or two at a time with out starters, we don’t lose much if anything. With this matchup, we get our final advantage, which as seen with the Dallas Mavericks of 2011, could be the most important one.

Brief Conclusion: We believe that we will win this series due to our excellent yet balanced scoring attack, very good defensive lineup, and our contributing bench.

*Matchup to Watch*: Chris Bosh vs. Andrea Bargnani

Final Bonus List to take into account:
1. Five of our players were in the Finals last year (Wade, Bosh, Haywood, Deshawn, Haslem)
2. 4 out 5 starters have played in the Finals within three years (Williams, Wade, Bosh, Haywood)
3. All starters have substantial playoff experience (and most bench)
4. Dwyane Wade has a Finals MVP and is one of the best closers in the game. If it comes down to it, he can and will show up.

Syracuse Writeup:

Point Guard
Deron Williams v. Mo Williams

Head to head, Deron Williams absolutely owns Mo. They have played 9 games against each other and Deron has won 8 of the 9 match ups. In these match ups, Deron averages higher points, assists, rebounds, better shooting percentages overall and deep, and has accumulated more steals.

Deron is the best player at his position, and can shut down Mo at what he does best, which is shooting from deep. In head to head match ups, Mo Williams shooting percentage from deep dips to 27%. Without an effective 3pt shot, Williams becomes useless on offense.

Mo's main goal on this team is to hit open shots and camp on the perimeter to take pressure off Wade and Bosh. Williams will shut him down from deep and kill their game plan, all while getting his teammates involved, scoring, and simply outperforming Mo by a wide margin.

Shooting Guard
Ray Allen v. Dwyane Wade
You're going to see the two names and automatically side with Wade. That's nice, but if you're actually reading this, consider:

In head to head match ups, Ray averaged 21 points, 4 rebounds while shooting 43% from the field and 46% from 3pt range. Wade averages 23 points, 4 rebounds while shooting 43% from the field and 28% from 3pt range.

Wade may be the better talent than Ray on a normal basis, but in head to head match ups they perform very similarly, with Ray having better shooting percentages overall. They have also met up 18 times, and Ray has won 12 of the 16.

On a more recent scale: In their last 3 games, Ray Allen averages 20.3 ppg against Wade, while Wade averages 12.7 points per game against Ray. We like this matchup for Ray.

Small Forward
Nicolas Batum v. Shane Battier

Similar types of players, both known for their defense, however Batum has gotten the better of Battier in their head to head match ups. When playing against Battier, Batum averages 13.2 points, 4 rebounds and 2 assists while shooting 53% from the field and 48% from deep.

Against Batum, Battier averages 9 points, 4 rebounds, 2.5 assists in slightly higher minutes. Battier's defense is on the decline, and is coming off a statistically down year, while Batum is on the rise and maturing more and more in each of his first three years.

If this was two years ago, Battier would be the obvious choice over Batum, but Batum has shown glimpses of greatness, and already outproduces Battier at this stage.

Power Forward
Andrea Bargnani v. Chris Bosh

Bargnani outperformed Bosh by a wide margin in their two match ups last year. Everyone is going to talk about Bargnani's defense, but look at the stats of the two games they played against each other:

(In two games, this past season):
Bosh: 18.5 PPG, 6 REB, 3 AST, 46%FG
Bargnani: 30PPG, 6.5 REB, 47%FG 58%3pt

Bargnani literally does EVERYTHING better against Bosh except pass. In head to head match ups, Bargnani owns Bosh. He lights him up, shoots better percentages and rebounds better.

Weren't expecting that, were you?

Center
Emeka Okafor v. Brendan Haywood

Haywood has slightly higher offensive upside, and Okafor has slightly higher defensive upside, the only major difference being that Okafor is a much better rebounder than Haywood, as well as being statistically the best defensive big man in the league this past season.

Okafor rebounds at better rates than Haywood, and allowed the fewest points per possession against opposing centers by a good margin. Both are complimentary pieces to the bigger stars on either side, but we feel Okafor is superior because of his defense and rebounding.

Neither player is going to carry an offense, but Okafor can carry a defense. Okafor can allow Bargnani to play out on Bosh because the paint will be guarded. Okafor will out rebound Haywood, and have a bigger impact overall on the series.

Bench
Keyon Dooling, Gary Neal, Chase Buddinger, Boris Diaw, Spencer Hawes
vs
Eric Bledsoe, Deshawn Stevenson, Omri Casspi, Udonis Haslem, Joel Pryzbilla

We feel that our bench compliments each other a lot better than their bench does. Their 1-3 are all just shooters. Bledsoe can't distribute, and Cassipi is good for nothing besides shooting jumpers..Something he didn't even do well last season. Stevenson has the reputation of a good defender, but his defensive metrics were a lot worse than you would expect. Haslem is easily their best bench player, however we feel Diaw's production will easily match Haslem. Pryzbilla is a huge question mark as he is constantly injured, and missed half of last season with another knee injury.

Our bench, on the other hand has a sure-handed point guard in Dooling that plays solid defense, and a very good (starter quality) scorer in Gary Neal. Additionally we have Chase Buddinger who has impressed everyone with his play on the Rockets. He is turning into a very good all around player, and shoots good percentages from everywhere on the floor. Diaw was already mentioned, but he's a legit NBA starter, and is one of the best passing big men in the entire NBA. Hawes is a very solid offensive center, and has the advantage over Pryzbilla in head to head match ups.

Conclusion
Two players don't win a championship, teams do. We have a more complete team with pieces that compliment each other based on their skill set. Look at the stats I posted, we match up incredibly well, and the match ups where they are supposed to have the advantage are no longer a big advantage for them as they were in earlier rounds.

Coming into the series, the biggest advantage was supposed to be Bosh over Bargs, but Bargs owns Bosh in head to head match ups. Ray produces on par with Wade. That leaves Deron, Batum, Okafor and the benches. We feel like we are the better overall team, and would be able to take away their supposed advantages.

Thanks.

Sadds The Gr8
09-16-2011, 10:04 PM
Providence. I think Syracuse is too much of a jump shooting team and I think that Providence can contain Deron Williams, while on the flip side I don't see anyone stopping Wade and Rupaul from Syracuse.

The_Jamal
09-16-2011, 10:06 PM
Providence

Raps18-19 Champ
09-16-2011, 10:08 PM
Bargnani would **** on Bosh.

Let's see you stop the beard *****.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 10:17 PM
For the record, Corey is using stats they date back to 2004. Dwyane Wade over the last two postseasons had owned Ray Allen, especially in the playoffs. Plus when you factor in Allen is one year older and Wade will become our primary ball handler, the matchup isn't even close.


Edit: Also, BOSH did not guard BARGS last year. Chris played PF and guarded Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, and/or whoever else the Raps put at PF at the time. I have personally watched almost every Heat game this year and Bargs had some sort of combination of Joel, Dampier, and Big Z guarding him which is pathetic. Plus, Andrea never even guarded Bosh. Chris is one of the most agile big men and has an excellent jumper which allows him to get by defenders on pump fakes and finish with both hands at the rim. Also THOSE NUMBERS ARE FROM 2 INDIVIDUAL GAMES!

Edit2: Also, Batum wasn't a good defender last year. He was ranked in the bottom 5 defenders by Synergy Sports.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 10:29 PM
Bledsoe can't distribute, and Cassipi is good for nothing besides shooting jumpers..Something he didn't even do well last season.

Bledsoe has a higher AST% rate than your "sure-handed PG" Dooling. Also how the hell is Budinger some good all-around player and Casspi is good for nothing? You look at stats when they favor you, but disregard them at other times. For both of their two year careers CASSPI HAS A HIGHER PPG, RPG, SPG, 3PT%, even FG%.

John Walls Era
09-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Too much to read. I'll vote later.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 10:36 PM
On a more recent scale: In their last 3 games, Ray Allen averages 20.3 ppg against Wade, while Wade averages 12.7 points per game against Ray. We like this matchup for Ray.

:facepalm: Incorrect again. In their last three matchups which were in the playoffs this year Wade averaged 28.3 PTs, 8.3 Rebs, 5.3 Asts, 2 Stls, on 52% from the field. Dang, you are just downright lying in your whole writeup. I am actually quite taken back. That is ridiculous.

Edit: I averaged Ray's stats for you as well. Ray Allen averaged 16.7 PTs, 2.7 Asts, 2.7 Rebs on 42% shooting.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-16-2011, 10:50 PM
I actually think Bargnani would bully Bosh. :laugh2:

That's my deciding factor TBH. :shrug:

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 10:52 PM
I actually think Bargnani would bully Bosh. :laugh2:

That's my deciding factor TBH. :shrug:

Fair enough. It is hard to compare a matchup as they have never really faced each other one on one despite what Corey is trying to say. I am certain that Bosh would reck Bargs with his mid-range game though. As for Bargs he might score 20+ but his efficient leaves a lot to be desired so it sometimes hurts his team more than helps.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-16-2011, 10:53 PM
Fair enough. It is hard to compare a matchup as they have never really faced each other one on one. I am certain that Bosh would reck Bargs with his mid-range game. As for Bargs he might score 20+ but he efficient leaves a lot to be desired so it sometimes helps his team more than hurts.

If Barngani was at the top of the 3, I can't see Bosh keeping up if Bargnani drove to the basket.

I think he'll get Bosh into a lot of foul trouble.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 10:56 PM
If Barngani was at the top of the 3, I can't see Bosh keeping up if Bargnani drove to the basket.

I think he'll get Bosh into a lot of foul trouble.

They can play Bargs at the top but their spacing is terrible. Ray Allen at this point can only play around the perimeter and shoots 3s. Batum also sits around the perimeter and shoots 3. Deron will have the ball at the top of the key when he brings the ball up the court. Right there you have 4 players who will be all around the perimeter while their only player inside is Emeka and he is no offensive threat.

Sadds The Gr8
09-16-2011, 10:58 PM
If Barngani was at the top of the 3, I can't see Bosh keeping up if Bargnani drove to the basket.

I think he'll get Bosh into a lot of foul trouble.

i hate Bosh like hell, but the EXACT same can be said going the other way. hate to admit it but Rupaul would kill Bargnani. it's the homer in u that doesn't want to admit it

Raps18-19 Champ
09-16-2011, 11:00 PM
i hate Bosh like hell, but the EXACT same can be said going the other way. hate to admit it but Rupaul would kill Bargnani. it's the homer in u that doesn't want to admit it

Maybe.

I just am high on Bargnani.

I think he'd be a beast of a player playing beside a defensive player like Okafor.

Sadds The Gr8
09-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Maybe.

I just am high on Bargnani.

I think he'd be a beast of a player playing beside a defensive player like Okafor.

lol, i think bargnani is kinda trash, but :shrug: Deron williams would definitely make him a better scorer by a couple pts but it wont hide his crappy defense and rebounding

jimbobjarree
09-16-2011, 11:11 PM
somebody sum up the write ups in one sentence

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 11:14 PM
somebody sum up the write ups in one sentence

In one sentence for us: We will win this series because our team has a great, balanced offense led by Finals MVP Dwyane Wade and a very good defense along with a better bench.

Corey
09-16-2011, 11:45 PM
lol, i think bargnani is kinda trash, but :shrug: Deron williams would definitely make him a better scorer by a couple pts but it wont hide his crappy defense and rebounding

Heat didn't think so last year. Dropped 30ppg and outrebounded Bosh in those games.

If Bargs is a crappy rebounder, and he outrebounded Bosh in 2 games against the Heat, what does that make Bosh?

Corey
09-16-2011, 11:45 PM
somebody sum up the write ups in one sentence

Their biggest strengths are mostly neutralized, and they have no one to stop Deron.

John Walls Era
09-16-2011, 11:48 PM
Both teams should lose. Writeup is too long :p

MiamiWadeCounty
09-16-2011, 11:50 PM
Heat didn't think so last year. Dropped 30ppg and outrebounded Bosh in those games.

If Bargs is a crappy rebounder, and he outrebounded Bosh in 2 games against the Heat, what does that make Bosh?
You are not taking into account that Bargs played C and Bosh played PF. PLUS, Bosh was playing with two of the best, maybe even the best, rebounders at their positions in Wade and Lebron. Bosh is better than Bargs at everything except shooting 3 pointers.

Their biggest strengths are mostly neutralized, and they have no one to stop Deron.

Your writeup is filled with lies and false stats. You are also using 7 YEAR sample sizes for some stats and 2 GAME sample sizes for others (when the players didn't even match up 1 v 1). It is almost laughable.

KnicksorBust
09-16-2011, 11:54 PM
To be honest there's no bad vote here. Prov has the edge in the backcourt, Syracuse in the frontcourt and experience. I even spent time on basketball reference and hoopsstats trying to determine who really deserved the win. After a lot of reading the writeups and personal research I'm going to go with Providence by the slightest of margins. I loved Syracuse the whole redraft but I just don't believe Batum-Barg-Okafor is a championship frontcourt.

Corey
09-17-2011, 12:00 AM
My stats aren't false at all, you just dont like them because they dont benefit you. There's a difference.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 12:03 AM
My stats aren't false at all, you just dont like them because they dont benefit you. There's a difference.

You posted stats which you claim are the last three matchups between Ray Allen and Dwyane Wade. They were completely and utterly false. Ray and Wade met up in the postseason and in their last three games, Wade averaged 28.3 PTs, 8.3 Rebs, 5.3 Asts, 2 Stls, on 52% from the field and Allen averaged 16.7 PTs, 2.7 Asts, 2.7 Rebs on 42% shooting. These are much different from the stats incorrectly cited trying to make it look like Wade played bad. The last two years in the postseason, Wade has dominated against the Cs and Ray Allen. You also posted stats in the Bosh vs. Andrea matchup. Wait a second? They never did matchup and guard each other because Bargs played C and Bosh PF. That would be like me posting stats of Dwyane Wade vs. Deron Williams even though they never guard each other. It just doesn't make sense.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 12:32 AM
Heat didn't think so last year. Dropped 30ppg and outrebounded Bosh in those games.

If Bargs is a crappy rebounder, and he outrebounded Bosh in 2 games against the Heat, what does that make Bosh?

that's a 2 game sample size...

Avenged
09-17-2011, 12:35 AM
I went with Providence with the slight edge.

I do like Syracuse at the PG/SG position but I think Providence's frontcourt will be too much. With Wade leading the way, and having HCA, I can't see them losing considering they have a great 2nd option in Bosh.

Chacarron
09-17-2011, 12:38 AM
I really like Syracuse in this matchup. I think the pair of Bargnani and Okafor is very good, I'd say better than Bosh and Haywood.

Avenged
09-17-2011, 12:43 AM
I really like Syracuse in this matchup. I think the pair of Bargnani and Okafor is very good, I'd say better than Bosh and Haywood.

I think Providence has the bigs to match up with them.

Bosh/Haslem/Haywood could, in my opinion, contain them.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 12:45 AM
Okafor isn't even that good...

Avenged
09-17-2011, 12:51 AM
True. Okafor won't be much of a concern.

I think bargnani is too soft for the bigs Providence provides.

I think Providences adv is greater than Syracuse's.

Greet
09-17-2011, 12:52 AM
Honestly think Syracuse would win this.

Mo Williams can't handle D-Will, and if you want to switch it over and have Wade guard Deron, looks like Mo has to deal with Ray Allen..

Bargnani and Bosh is kind of a wash, seeing as they're both pretty soft in the paint and Bargs offensive game > Bosh's.

Haywood is barely a serviceable starter at this point and he doesn't have great big man depth.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 12:53 AM
Honestly think Syracuse would win this.

Mo Williams can't handle D-Will, and if you want to switch it over and have Wade guard Deron, looks like Mo has to deal with Ray Allen..

Bargnani and Bosh is kind of a wash, seeing as they're both pretty soft in the paint and Bargs offensive game > Bosh's.

Haywood is barely a serviceable starter at this point and he doesn't have great big man depth.

LOLwut?

Greet
09-17-2011, 12:58 AM
LOLwut?

Bargs is an offensive force. He's just a soft ***** and doesn't get rebounds or play defense. He's like a small downgraded version of Brook Lopez.

Plus playing him at PF and putting Emeka with him is a good idea.


Plus I'm guessing Corey is the GM of the other team, so that means they'll have bad team chemistry. (Just kidding, I don't need another ban)

Chacarron
09-17-2011, 01:01 AM
Okafor ***** on Haywood in any facet of the game. Haywood is just a big body with terrible mobility, while Okafor is a solid defender that is more than capable on the offensive end.

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 01:04 AM
Bargs is an offensive force. He's just a soft ***** and doesn't get rebounds or play defense. He's like a small downgraded version of Brook Lopez.

Plus playing him at PF and putting Emeka with him is a good idea.


Plus I'm guessing Corey is the GM of the other team, so that means they'll have bad team chemistry. (Just kidding, I don't need another ban)

:laugh2: well i am the gm as well, so we should be fine haha. And yeah agreed with char. Haywood was pretty horrible last year. He still has name value from his washington days, which is good for providence but at this point is just an overpriced backup.

Greet
09-17-2011, 01:07 AM
:laugh2: well i am the gm as well, so we should be fine haha. And yeah agreed with char. Haywood was pretty horrible last year. He still has name value from his washington days, which is good for providence but at this point is just an overpriced backup.

Are you ****ing serious? I should take away my vote....Putting Deron in a Jazz uniform

SMH BRO

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 01:08 AM
Are you ****ing serious? I should take away my vote....Putting Deron in a Jazz uniform

SMH BRO

It was the most recent picture on the site. Sue me

Greet
09-17-2011, 01:09 AM
It was the most recent picture on the site. Sue me

Might as well put Allen in a ****ing Sonics jersey

Disrespect bro, I thought you knew better.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 01:16 AM
Okafor ***** on Haywood in any facet of the game. Haywood is just a big body with terrible mobility, while Okafor is a solid defender that is more than capable on the offensive end.

i wouldn't go that far. i don't think much of Okafor at all.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 01:17 AM
Bargs is an offensive force. He's just a soft ***** and doesn't get rebounds or play defense. He's like a small downgraded version of Brook Lopez.

Plus playing him at PF and putting Emeka with him is a good idea.


Plus I'm guessing Corey is the GM of the other team, so that means they'll have bad team chemistry. (Just kidding, I don't need another ban)

he's inconsistent as hell too and isn't that efficient. he's versatile on offense but he isn't better than Bosh. no way in hell.

Chacarron
09-17-2011, 01:20 AM
i wouldn't go that far. i don't think much of Okafor at all.

What does Haywood do better than Okafor?

mightybosstone
09-17-2011, 01:25 AM
This is such a great matchup that it's hard to vote for one team over another. There's four top 25 caliber players here and two of the most clutch postseason players of the past decade. Both teams can light it up from three or in the post, have strong defenders on the perimeter and in the paint and have a legit 1, 2 and 3 on their roster.

However, that being said, I'm taking Providence for two reasons: depth and Bargnani.

I love Providence's mix of the old and the new on their bench and they have a little bit of everything from batshit crazy perimeter defenders (Stevenson), to hard nose "don't **** with me in the paint" vets (Haslem, Pryz) with a few younger energy guys thrown in the mix (Casspi, Bledsoe, Henry). Syracuse, on the other hand, has some really nice scoring on their bench (Budinger, Neal, Diaw), but their bench bigs are underwhelming defensively.

That's almost beside the point, though. The main reason I voted for Providence is Bargnani vs. Bosh. Corey can bring up numbers from two regular season matchups all he wants to (and rightfully so, I would do the same thing), but it doesn't mean a damn thing. The playoffs are the playoffs and the regular season is the regular season and that's a ridiculously small sample size.

There's no way in hell that Bargnani can tangle with Bosh in the paint, but I'm not so concerned with Bosh's ability to guard someone 20 feet from the basket. I'm especially not that concerned because the dude shot 34% from threes last season. I'd rather give up some open 18-25 shooters to a mediocre-average outside shooter than put put a scarecrow on an elite post player. Also, I just love the Wade-Bosh duo on paper more than I loved watching the Miami Heat in real life. Bosh's ability to stretch the floor would make things so much easier for Wade to drive the paint, where he's most effective. And I think Mo fits that offense extremely well, too.

I'm taking Providence in 6, maybe 7 if Allen just has one of those ridiculous games.

Avenged
09-17-2011, 01:27 AM
Haywood isn't much offensively but he's a big body and he doesn't necessarily need to be elite to match up well with Okafor. Okafor is the better player but the advantage isn't as huge for Okafor to have 4-7 huge games.

Bargs being better than Bosh offensively? No way.

Greet
09-17-2011, 01:27 AM
^^Put Okafor on Bosh and have Bargnani play against Haywood.

They have no big man depth

Avenged
09-17-2011, 01:32 AM
^^Put Okafor on Bosh and have Bargnani play against Haywood.

They have no big man depth

Bargs guarding Haywood.. I know Haywood isn't much offensively but I'd like to see that.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 01:39 AM
What does Haywood do better than Okafor?

nothing, but i don't think the difference between Haywood and Okafor is as drastic as you think.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 01:42 AM
^^Put Okafor on Bosh and have Bargnani play against Haywood.

They have no big man depth

Okafor won't shut bosh down...he's too agile for Okafor, he'll still drop 20+ on him. i cant believe im defending rupaul here for **** sakes...i'm leaving this thread

mightybosstone
09-17-2011, 01:42 AM
Mo Williams can't handle D-Will, and if you want to switch it over and have Wade guard Deron, looks like Mo has to deal with Ray Allen..
I get this argument and agree with it to an extent, but don't at the same time. No, Mo Williams is not a great defender, but he's nowhere near as inept for his position as Bargnani is. And a poor defender at PG is not NEARLY as painful to good team defense as a terrible defender at PF. And if you're going to make this argument, how about flipping the side and saying "if you put Bargnani on Bosh, Bosh will own him, but if you put Okafor on Bosh, then you have Bargnani guarding the paint and Okafor 15 feet from the basket."


Bargnani and Bosh is kind of a wash, seeing as they're both pretty soft in the paint and Bargs offensive game > Bosh's.
This is just wrong. Both parts of it. Despite supposedly being an elite shooting big man, Bosh dominates Bargnani in EFG%, TS%, OWS, ORtg and pretty much every other offensive category, including AST% and TO%. Take away the 3-pointer and how is Bargnani better offensively? He's not even a significantly better free throw shooter than Bosh (and Bosh gets to the line FAR more often).


Haywood is barely a serviceable starter at this point and he doesn't have great big man depth.
Are you joking me? They have Haslem (who could start for some teams in the league and can play C in a pinch) and Pryzbilla. If Bosh gets 35 minutes a night and Haywood gets 25, they can play Haslem 13 minutes at PF and 12-15 minutes at C, while letting Pryzbilla pick up whatever minutes are remaining. If anything, I think that's a very strong rotation, and nearly identical to the rotation the Heat have in real life (sub Haywood in for Anthony, Pryz in for Big Z), but with a slight defensive upgrade.

mightybosstone
09-17-2011, 01:45 AM
^^Put Okafor on Bosh and have Bargnani play against Haywood.

They have no big man depth

Do you really want Okafor picking up Bosh 15 feet from the basket and Bargnani being the last line of defense around the rim? And as a previous poster already said, Haywood is not a great offensive player, but he would take Bargnani out behind the swing set at recess and make him his *****.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-17-2011, 03:24 AM
providence in 6

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 08:52 AM
For the record 49erGiantLaker has under 100 votes so his doesn't count. Also thanks to those arguing in favor of my team. One thing to note. If he does put Bosh on Okafor that would obviously be better than Bargs on Bosh in terms of 1 v1 , however Bosh is still super agile and no matter who guards him, as a no.2 option, can and will get 20+. Then by bringing Okafor away from the hoop you are relying on Bargs to cover the whole paint Dwyane Wade as he blows past Ray Allen. Haywood is also good enough offensively, when getting minutes, to grab offensive rebounds and finish layups/dunks with ease as Bargs tries to match up with him physically down low.

Corey
09-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Feel free to pull up the stats if you want, but bargs is actually a very solid man defender. His struggles and poor.reputation come from his slow help rotations

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 09:58 AM
Feel free to pull up the stats if you want, but bargs is actually a very solid man defender. His struggles and poor.reputation come from his slow help rotations

Yes, he is a very slow player and is not laterally quick on defense. Bosh is one of the most agile big men and is able to get by all sorts of defenders. Combine that with Bosh's elite jumpshot and Bosh will be getting 25 and 10 per night.

The_Jamal
09-17-2011, 02:23 PM
Feel free to pull up the stats if you want, but bargs is actually a very solid man defender. His struggles and poor.reputation come from his slow help rotations

Even if this is true, good luck convincing ANYONE of that. Bargs has held a "one of the worst defenders" in basketball stigma for a few years now. The fact is that Bosh is a far superior offensive and defensive player and would destroy this series on both ends.

Ill21
09-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Providence. D-Wade abuses Ray Allen

Corey
09-17-2011, 04:08 PM
Even if this is true, good luck convincing ANYONE of that. Bargs has held a "one of the worst defenders" in basketball stigma for a few years now

I know, I'm just saying it's a really poor reputations that's unfair...and I've been making this argument long before I got him in the redraft.

He's not a great defender by any means, and I would never argue that he is, but he's a whole lot better than anyone gives him credit for. His length is his main tool in man to man situations. He's surprisingly solid defending the post, and he's really good at guarding the perimeter.

Like I said before, his problems come when you talk about weak side help, and certain rotations.

Greet
09-17-2011, 04:27 PM
I've seen it all

Bargs is a solid defender

Brook must be too

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 04:35 PM
I know, I'm just saying it's a really poor reputations that's unfair...and I've been making this argument long before I got him in the redraft.

He's not a great defender by any means, and I would never argue that he is, but he's a whole lot better than anyone gives him credit for. His length is his main tool in man to man situations. He's surprisingly solid defending the post, and he's really good at guarding the perimeter.

Like I said before, his problems come when you talk about weak side help, and certain rotations.
no...he's ok at guarding the post, he sucks at guarding the perimeter. he gets blown by quicker players. he's slow laterally

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 04:39 PM
no...he's ok at guarding the post, he sucks at guarding the perimeter. he gets blown by quicker players. he's slow laterally

Agreed and that is Bosh's biggest strength; using his speed and jumpshot foul line extended to get by defenders and score.

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 06:04 PM
Bosh and Bargnani are both going to get theres, simple as that. Bosh and Bargs are both underrated defenders but to say that either of these players will get less than 20ppg in this series would be a lie

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Bargnani isn't an underrated defender at all he's every bit as bad as everyone says.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 06:08 PM
Bosh and Bargnani are both going to get theres, simple as that. Bosh and Bargs are both underrated defenders but to say that either of these players will get less than 20ppg in this series would be a lie

No way in hell is Bargs guaranteed 20 points a night. Plus if he does average that it will be on his piss poor percentages.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 06:32 PM
Official count is 18 - 13 I believe.

The_Jamal
09-17-2011, 06:34 PM
U're downright crazy if u think Bargs will be able to drop 20 a game. To compare Bosh and Bargs on Defense is simply absurd

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 06:49 PM
I think you guys are really underestimating the impact of deron. Bargnani has been playing out of position, and had to be the #1 option last year. That is not his strength. Deron will make him a much more efficient player. And i didnt compare bargnani's D to boshes. They are both underrated man to man defenders, but yeah Bosh is definetely better. Bosh has a tough task of chasing Bargnani around the perimeter in this series as well, so I think it is safe to say bargs will get at least 20ppg.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 07:04 PM
I think you guys are really underestimating the impact of deron. Bargnani has been playing out of position, and had to be the #1 option last year. That is not his strength. Deron will make him a much more efficient player. And i didnt compare bargnani's D to boshes. They are both underrated man to man defenders, but yeah Bosh is definetely better. Bosh has a tough task of chasing Bargnani around the perimeter in this series as well, so I think it is safe to say bargs will get at least 20ppg.

I don't think Bosh really has to work that much on D. We are just fine with Barg's shooting 34.5% from 3 and 45% overall. In fact, I would be happy if Bargs scored 20 because that would mean he was taking shots away from Deron and Ray Ray and hurting his team with his efficiency. There is no doubt that having Deron makes the players around him better but it doesn't make an inefficient player, now efficient just like that. It also doesn't improve Bargs' man to man lateral defense at all.

Edit: Official Count is 18-14 I believe.

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 07:56 PM
You arent making a lot of sense as far as the efficiency thing goes. Bargnani was forced to take that many shots last year due to him being the main offensive weapon. Obviously when he is receiving double teams due to the lack of weapons around him, he is going to shoot inefficiently. With players like Ray and Deron now around him, there is no chance in hell he plays as inefficient as years past.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 08:03 PM
You arent making a lot of sense as far as the efficiency thing goes. Bargnani was forced to take that many shots last year due to him being the main offensive weapon. Obviously when he is receiving double teams due to the lack of weapons around him, he is going to shoot inefficiently. With players like Ray and Deron now around him, there is no chance in hell he plays as inefficient as years past.

Bargnani wasn't double teamed that much last year. He doesn't warrant a double team at all. It's not like he is blowing past people, all he does is shoot. He might have been their main offensive weapon but that doesn't mean he has to take crap shots and settle. Look at when Bosh was a no.1 option in TORONTO under the same system. He shot between 49-52% beginning with his third year during his tenure. In Miami, as the third option, he shot 50%. Therefore, you are the one not making a lot of sense.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 08:19 PM
For the record Rangers331 has under 100 posts as he just voted. Official count 19 - 16.

John Walls Era
09-17-2011, 08:23 PM
MOre posts by the GMs than by actual posters :facepalm:

I thought the writeup was enough to read...

The_Jamal
09-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Syracuse simply isn't strong enough defensively to stop Providence. Wade abused Allen this past season in the playoffs and Ray will be a year older. You can bring up the head to head all you want, but Bosh can easily put up 25-10 this series. I also wouldn't underestimate Mo; he may give up 20+ to Deron, but he can easily have a big impact scoring the ball this series. It comes down to Providence being the better defensive team and having the biggest advantage on offense with Wade over Allen and Bosh over bargs

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 08:33 PM
Syracuse simply isn't strong enough defensively to stop Providence. Wade abused Allen this past season in the playoffs and Ray will be a year older. You can bring up the head to head all you want, but Bosh can easily put up 25-10 this series. I also wouldn't underestimate Mo; he may give up 20+ to Deron, but he can easily have a big impact scoring the ball this series. It comes down to Providence being the better defensive team and having the biggest advantage on offense with Wade over Allen and Bosh over bargs

Couldn't have said it better myself. Deron Williams will get his no doubt, but Mo Williams as a pure 3pt shooter is one of the best at his position. Plus with his quickness and vision, he is a legitimate no.3 option. He was even a no.2 alongside another superstar on a finals team. One thing to also note that I wrote in my writeup is our team's experience. We have 5 players from last year's finals, and 4 out 5 starters have played in a finals series within a few years.

Corey
09-17-2011, 08:58 PM
One thing to also note that I wrote in my writeup is our team's experience. We have 5 players from last year's finals, and 4 out 5 starters have played in a finals series within a few years.

The Mavs just won the title, how much finals experience did they have prior to this season? How much experience did the C's have before they won in 08?

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 09:00 PM
The Mavs just won the title, hoe much finals experience did they have prior to this season?

Their three best players (or at least 3 out 4) all had Finals experience :facepalm:. I also think it is funny how you are trying to undermine playoff experience as your team doesn't have as much.

Greet
09-17-2011, 09:02 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. Deron Williams will get his no doubt, but Mo Williams as a pure 3pt shooter is one of the best at his position. Plus with his quickness and vision, he is a legitimate no.3 option. He was even a no.2 alongside another superstar on a finals team. One thing to also note that I wrote in my writeup is our team's experience. We have 5 players from last year's finals, and 4 out 5 starters have played in a finals series within a few years.

If you want to talk about experience and statistics, Deron Williams is one of the best PGs in playoffs history -- statistical wise.

Deron knows how to distribute, and Bargnani knows how to score. Bargnani is petty much like Brook just with more range and when Deron joined the Nets, Brooks offensive numbers, rebounds and defense all improved, so it's safe to say the same about Bargnani.

Deron makes every single player around him better. Bosh had a statistical drop off as a #3 option and as someone who didn't get nearly as much attention because of who he played with, you think he'll score more if he's the only offensive big man option they really have?

Think logically here.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 09:06 PM
If you want to talk about experience and statistics, Deron Williams is one of the best PGs in playoffs history -- statistical wise.

Deron knows how to distribute, and Bargnani knows how to score. Bargnani is petty much like Brook just with more range and when Deron joined the Nets, Brooks offensive numbers, rebounds and defense all improved, so it's safe to say the same about Bargnani.

Deron makes every single player around him better. Bosh had a statistical drop off as a #3 option and as someone who didn't get nearly as much attention because of who he played with, you think he'll score more if he's the only offensive big man option they really have?

Think logically here.

His whole frontcourt (which is the weakest part of his team) has barely any playoff experience and have never made it out of the 1st round. Your logic is also flawed. You are expecting Bosh to score more on significantly less touches. In fact, he was just as efficient as he has been in whole career even when adjusting into a new system with new players. That is actually really impressive. Dwyane Wade and Lebron are two of the five best scorers in the NBA, so obviously Bosh won't be scoring as much since they use the ball. The end of your post is just idiotic to say the least. :facepalm:

Eagles4Lyfe
09-17-2011, 09:13 PM
If you want to talk about experience and statistics, Deron Williams is one of the best PGs in playoffs history -- statistical wise.

Deron knows how to distribute, and Bargnani knows how to score. Bargnani is petty much like Brook just with more range and when Deron joined the Nets, Brooks offensive numbers, rebounds and defense all improved, so it's safe to say the same about Bargnani.

Deron makes every single player around him better. Bosh had a statistical drop off as a #3 option and as someone who didn't get nearly as much attention because of who he played with, you think he'll score more if he's the only offensive big man option they really have?

Think logically here.
You know when people say stuf flike this they usually provide a link and proof otherwise it can be made up...

Greet
09-17-2011, 09:22 PM
His whole frontcourt (which is the weakest part of his team) has barely any playoff experience and have never made it out of the 1st round. Your logic is also flawed. You are expecting Bosh to score more on significantly less touches. In fact, he was just as efficient as he has been in whole career even when adjusting into a new system with new players. That is actually really impressive. Dwyane Wade and Lebron are two of the five best scorers in the NBA, so obviously Bosh won't be scoring as much since they use the ball. The end of your post is just idiotic to say the least. :facepalm:

Bosh stats all took a drop-off and if you want to look into advanced stats it's flawed because defensive advanced stats are all team based and he was playing with two of the best defensive players in the NBA.

What would you rather have. frontcourt experience or backcourt experience? Obviously you would rather your PG/SG too have the playoff experience because they're the one's who set up the plays for the bigs. Deron INSTANTLY makes everyone around him a better player, Mo Williams doesn't.




You know when people say stuf flike this they usually provide a link and proof otherwise it can be made up...

I don't want to look right now but I'm almost 100% positive that he's like one of five PGs to average 20 points/9+assists

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 09:26 PM
Bosh stats all took a drop-off and if you want to look into advanced stats it's flawed because defensive advanced stats are all team based and he was playing with two of the best defensive players in the NBA.

What would you rather have. frontcourt experience or backcourt experience? Obviously you would rather your PG/SG too have the playoff experience because they're the one's who set up the plays for the bigs. Deron INSTANTLY makes everyone around him a better player, Mo Williams doesn't.





I don't want to look right now but I'm almost 100% positive that he's like one of five PGs to average 20 points/9+assists
1. Where did I say Mo Williams makes the players around him better? One thing for sure is that Dwyane Wade makes the players around him better.

2. So basic stats are good to use when talking about Deron, but not when talking about Bosh :facepalm:. I also did some research...unlike you. Magic Johnson had 9 better postseasons of WS/48 and also had many postseasons with significantly better basic stats. I am not going to look up every PG because I wasn't making false claims but I bet guys like Stockton, CP3, etc. have all had better years than Deron.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 09:53 PM
Official Count: 21-16.

Bruno
09-17-2011, 09:56 PM
I like Providence here.

Corey
09-17-2011, 10:44 PM
Bargnani isn't an underrated defender at all he's every bit as bad as everyone says.

Oh?


In the 205 times he was posted up last season, Bargnani held his opponent to just 182 points (0.888 PPP) on just 46.8% shooting.

He fouled opponents on the block just 7.6% of the time

When faced with isolation situations, Bargnani is in the top 17% of the NBA in terms of Points Per Possession (PPP) allowed, giving up just 0.684 points per possession on 29.7% shooting

Corey
09-17-2011, 11:01 PM
Their three best players (or at least 3 out 4) all had Finals experience :facepalm:. I also think it is funny how you are trying to undermine playoff experience as your team doesn't have as much.


un·der·mine
   [uhn-der-mahyn or, especially for 1, 2, 4, uhn-der-mahyn] Show IPA
verb (used with object), -mined, -min·ing.
1.
to injure or destroy by insidious activity or imperceptible stages, sometimes tending toward a sudden dramatic effect.

And I don't really care if you 'think it's funny'. You have a holier than thou attitude throughout the entire thread. What's funny is how defensive you're getting whenever someone disagrees with you.

People can have views and opinions that differ from yours. It's okay.

Sadds The Gr8
09-17-2011, 11:07 PM
Oh?

he's guarding Centers...which everyone knows is the weakest position in the league. if he's guarding PF's like Bosh he'll be too slow laterally to keep up and get burned.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 11:25 PM
And I don't really care if you 'think it's funny'. You have a holier than thou attitude throughout the entire thread. What's funny is how defensive you're getting whenever someone disagrees with you.

People can have views and opinions that differ from yours. It's okay.

I am not getting defensive at all. I am just trying to defend my team, honestly and truthfully. This is something you have not done as some of the statistics in your writeup have been proven to be false. Classy move.

Edit: I believe the official count is 22 - 16 as one of the voters for Providence has under 100 posts and two voters for Syracuse had under 100 posts when they voted.

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 11:29 PM
Woah woah woah, what exactly in our writeup is "false"?

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 11:32 PM
Woah woah woah, what exactly in our writeup is "false"?


In their last 3 games, Ray Allen averages 20.3 ppg against Wade, while Wade averages 12.7 points per game against Ray.
Those are not stats from their last three games. It was a complete lie.

Here are the real stats:
Wade 28.3 PTs, 8.3 Rebs, 5.3 Asts, 2 Stls, 52 FG%
Allen 16.7 PTs, 2.7 Asts, 2.7 Rebs, 42 FG%

unleashthebeast
09-17-2011, 11:33 PM
I'm almost positive Corey was using the last 3 regular season games, as he used for the rest of the matchups...

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 11:36 PM
I'm almost positive Corey was using the last 3 regular season games, as he used for the rest of the matchups...

He should have clarified if he was using regular season stats. Also, he said "last three games" and "on a more recent scale", those were not the last three games. Therefore, it is a lie and can mislead voters. On another note, regular season matchups don't mean as much much when this is the playoffs and the great players tend to elevate their games come playoff time, which Wade showed. Wade abused Allen in the playoffs and with Allen another year older, it is almost certain he would do the same again.

Greet
09-17-2011, 11:40 PM
1. Where did I say Mo Williams makes the players around him better? One thing for sure is that Dwyane Wade makes the players around him better.

2. So basic stats are good to use when talking about Deron, but not when talking about Bosh :facepalm:. I also did some research...unlike you. Magic Johnson had 9 better postseasons of WS/48 and also had many postseasons with significantly better basic stats. I am not going to look up every PG because I wasn't making false claims but I bet guys like Stockton, CP3, etc. have all had better years than Deron.

You can't use WS for the post season because that's such a small sample size, it's flawed.

Advanced stats should be used very limited by someone who doesn't understand them, like you.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 11:43 PM
You can't use WS for the post season because that's such a small sample size, it's flawed.

Advanced stats should be used very limited by someone who doesn't understand them, like you.
Look at the basic stats then. Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, John Stockton, Big O, and many more have better stats than D.Will.

Greet
09-17-2011, 11:47 PM
Look at the basic stats then. Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, John Stockton, Big O, and many more have better stats than D.Will.

Oh so some of the best PGs ever have better stats. Doesn't take away that D-Will is still one of the best playoff performing PGs.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-17-2011, 11:49 PM
Oh so some of the best PGs ever have better stats. Doesn't take away that D-Will is still one of the best playoff performing PGs.
It also doesn't change the fact that Dwyane Wade is an even better playoff performer, but then again you obviously don't mention that.

Edit: Official Count: 23 - 16 Providence. Now I'm going to sleep.

Greet
09-17-2011, 11:52 PM
It also doesn't change the fact that Dwyane Wade is an even better playoff performer, but then again you obviously don't mention that.

Separate positions, they do different things.

If you want to bring Wade into the discussion, I would take a D-Will/Allen back court combination over a Mo Williams/DWade one.

Corey
09-18-2011, 08:39 AM
I am not getting defensive at all. I am just trying to defend my team, honestly and truthfully. This is something you have not done as some of the statistics in your writeup have been proven to be false. Classy move.
.

Didn't lie about anything. Those statistics are 100% accurate, you just dont like them so you're going to throw jabs.

As you just did again.

MiamiWadeCounty
09-18-2011, 08:59 AM
Didn't lie about anything. Those statistics are 100% accurate, you just dont like them so you're going to throw jabs.

As you just did again.

:facepalm:. Wade and Ray Allen met up in the playoffs. Therefore, their three last games h2h would be in the playoffs. Nice try.

Edit: Official Count is 23-16 I believe.

Edit2: tev dodd has under 100 posts so the vote is the same currently.

phlp_bj
09-18-2011, 02:45 PM
bump

MiamiWadeCounty
09-18-2011, 02:58 PM
Official score is 23 - 17, Providence.

Chacarron
09-18-2011, 03:03 PM
Official score is 23 - 17, Providence. :) It gets annoying.

Corey
09-18-2011, 03:51 PM
:facepalm:. Wade and Ray Allen met up in the playoffs. Therefore, their three last games h2h would be in the playoffs. Nice try.
Regular season. Doesn't take too much inquiring to see that's what I was talking about. Sorry I didn't spell it out for you.

unleashthebeast
09-18-2011, 07:09 PM
bump

NYKalltheway
09-18-2011, 07:17 PM
I'd love to watch this live! Seems like two great teams that have everything you need. Providence lacks in depth though.

I like Syracuse more as a team, and I can't see a reason why they can't take this home. I also feel that Batum would work a lot on Wade in the series, not sure why Syracuse didn't try to put that into the write up

MiamiWadeCounty
09-18-2011, 07:27 PM
I'd love to watch this live! Seems like two great teams that have everything you need. Providence lacks in depth though.

I like Syracuse more as a team, and I can't see a reason why they can't take this home. I also feel that Batum would work a lot on Wade in the series, not sure why Syracuse didn't try to put that into the write up

I don't think Batum would do much to stop Wade. He is a really overrated defender and his advanced defensive statistics aren't good at all. I also don't see how we lack in depth. Udonis Haslem can play PF and C and is a great bench player. Even though he is undersized, matching up with Emeka isn't a problem since he is somewhat undersized and doesn't have a great offensive game. Then, we have Deshawn Stevenson who can handle the same amount of minutes he got on the Mavericks in the Finals (17). Pryzbilla is also a good, tough player off the bench and Bledsoe is fine for the 10 minutes he gets. Casspi is also a decent scorer off the bench.

Edit: I also think the official count is 24-19 Providence.

Edit2: 25-19, Providence.