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Mile High Champ
09-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last three years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. Its is now that time to vote! I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 2 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)


2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Chris Paul goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Dirk goes off the board, I will add other power forwards.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the top list.

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 10:03 PM
Durantula

Mile High Champ
09-12-2011, 10:04 PM
It pains me to put Amare in this poll but hey that is how the users voted. I am unsure who I am voting for but it is between Rose, Kobe and Durant.

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 10:08 PM
It pains me to put Amare in this poll but hey that is how the users voted. I am unsure who I am voting for but it is between Rose, Kobe and Durant.

Didn't it pain you to put Bynum on the other polls as well.

dhopisthename
09-12-2011, 10:09 PM
Didn't it pain you to put Bynum on the other polls as well.

I think he meant amare over gasol

Hawkeye15
09-12-2011, 10:12 PM
Durant for me. I honestly think I may be voting Rose next, which I thought I would never do...

Mile High Champ
09-12-2011, 10:12 PM
I think he meant amare over gasol

This is exactly what I meant.. I can live with Bynum since the center position is really quite pathetic after Dwight.

Hellcrooner
09-12-2011, 10:13 PM
political ****** vote.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 10:14 PM
I'll go Durant here

The_Jamal
09-12-2011, 10:15 PM
This is where it gets fun. One could realistically put Kobe, Rose or Durant here and they wouldn't be wrong. I'm not even entirely sure who i'm going to vote yet, looking forward to the arguments though

Ebbs
09-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Agreed sad and just wrong stat will have to go before Pau + Bosh :(...

KD
Rose
Deron
Kobe
Melo

than it gets interesting

Hellcrooner
09-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Agreed sad and just wrong stat will have to go before Pau + Bosh :(...

KD
Rose
Deron
Kobe
Melo

than it gets interesting

since we are doing only top 10, we wont ever have the chance.

the rest of the list will be all Pg, Sg and Sf.

The_Jamal
09-12-2011, 10:41 PM
Which is how it should be anyway. the only one i would put Pau ahead of on that list is maybe Melo

Bruno
09-12-2011, 10:41 PM
This should be durant rose or kobe before anyone else.

ManRam
09-12-2011, 10:44 PM
political ****** vote.

Why are you so whiny lately. What has been political? What has upset you so much about the voting?

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 10:45 PM
How in the world is Amare getting votes before Durant? Seriously now....

tredigs
09-12-2011, 10:46 PM
Durant. Pretty easy choice for me at this slot.

Baller1
09-12-2011, 10:48 PM
Now, I can finally say that KD better not drop any lower.

6. KD
7. Kobe
8-9. Rose/Deron
10. Who knows...

Gators123
09-12-2011, 10:51 PM
Durant

Bruno
09-12-2011, 10:52 PM
Does anyone care to address Durants assist to turnover ratio?

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 10:52 PM
For those who are a bit on the fence as to who they'd choose here's some help.

Basic

Player FG% FT% TRB AST STL PTS
Kobe Bryant .451 .828 5.1 4.7 1.2 25.3
Kevin Durant .462 .880 6.8 2.7 1.1 27.7
Derrick Rose .445 .858 4.1 7.7 1.0 25.0

Advanced

Player PER TS% TRB% AST% USG% ORtg WS WS/48
Kobe Bryant 23.9 .548 8.5 26.7 35.1 111 10.3 0.179
Kevin Durant 23.6 .589 10.3 13.2 30.6 115 12.0 0.189
Derrick Rose 23.5 .550 6.4 38.7 32.2 113 13.1 0.208

SPM

Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38

RAPM

Player O/100 D/ 100 O+D/200
Kobe Bryant 2.1 -1.0 1.1
Kevin Durant 2.7 0.5 3.2
Derrick Rose 2.4 1.1 3.4

VORP

Player VORP
Kobe Bryant 6.41
Kevin Durant 5.79
Derrick Rose 7.66

VA and EWA

Player VA EWA
Kobe Bryant 557.4 18.6
Kevin Durant 598.4 19.9
Derrick Rose 569.8 19.0

Basically after all these #s it actually shows that Derrick Rose isn't such a bad choice here. However stats aren't everything. We have to take intangibles, impact, leadership, defense (though some of these stats can give an accurate gauge of player's defensive worth) etc. That's where Kobe comes in.

Tough choice here for me.

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 10:54 PM
Im going with Rose but i'm sure Durant is going to win

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 10:55 PM
How in the world is Amare getting votes before Durant? Seriously now....

Dumbass Dupes... don't worry they won't count.

HELLCROONER why did you choose Amar'e? :pity: Shame on you.

ManRam
09-12-2011, 10:55 PM
It was between Durant and Kobe for me. Kobe had a really good year, and most of it is lost in their playoff flop. He was Rose's closest MVP contender for a while IMO (when Dwight and the Magic started sucking).

But I went with KD.

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 10:56 PM
Amar'e has 10 votes? LOL the Knick homers are in full effect

Gators123
09-12-2011, 10:56 PM
Amare? How the hell does he have so many votes?

Edit- Dupes :pity:

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 10:56 PM
lol stoudemire has 10 votes what a joke

ManRam
09-12-2011, 10:57 PM
We'll sort out the dupes ASAP. Trying to get an IP ban on that guy voting for Amare.

Can't believe people take this so seriously :laugh:

Creating like 10 dupes just to vote (and they won't count) is hilarious. That's such a waste of time.

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 10:57 PM
NVM, pretty much all the amar'e votes are dupes

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 10:58 PM
LMAO are you serious

ManRam
09-12-2011, 10:58 PM
I'm gonna edit the poll as we go along until the IP ban comes in. There were 10 votes by the same dupe. I'm going to delete them from the tally.

Crooner is the only one to actually vote for him.

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 10:58 PM
The only vote that will count for Amar'e thus far is Hellcrooner so Amar'e really has just 1 vote. Crooner's agenda is clear if he's the one creating all these dupes I'll have much less respect for him.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 10:59 PM
For those who are a bit on the fence as to who they'd choose here's some help.

Basic

Player FG% FT% TRB AST STL PTS
Kobe Bryant .451 .828 5.1 4.7 1.2 25.3
Kevin Durant .462 .880 6.8 2.7 1.1 27.7
Derrick Rose .445 .858 4.1 7.7 1.0 25.0

Advanced

Player PER TS% TRB% AST% USG% ORtg WS WS/48
Kobe Bryant 23.9 .548 8.5 26.7 35.1 111 10.3 0.179
Kevin Durant 23.6 .589 10.3 13.2 30.6 115 12.0 0.189
Derrick Rose 23.5 .550 6.4 38.7 32.2 113 13.1 0.208

SPM

Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38

RAPM

Player O/100 D/ 100 O+D/200
Kobe Bryant 2.1 -1.0 1.1
Kevin Durant 2.7 0.5 3.2
Derrick Rose 2.4 1.1 3.4

VORP

Player VORP
Kobe Bryant 6.41
Kevin Durant 5.79
Derrick Rose 7.66

VA and EWA

Player VA EWA
Kobe Bryant 557.4 18.6
Kevin Durant 598.4 19.9
Derrick Rose 569.8 19.0

Basically after all these #s it actually shows that Derrick Rose isn't such a bad choice here. However stats aren't everything. We have to take intangibles, impact, leadership, defense (though some of these stats can give an accurate gauge of player's defensive worth) etc. That's where Kobe comes in.

Tough choice here for me.

I Think Rose should go 8th-10th range
Durant definetely Owns this slot and Kobe follows suit for me

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 10:59 PM
The only vote that will count for Amar'e thus far is Hellcrooner so Amar'e really has just 1 vote. Crooner's agenda is clear if he's the one creating all these dupes I'll have much less respect for him.

lol he mad

DoMeFavors
09-12-2011, 10:59 PM
some idiot made a ton of accounts and voted Amare

JordansBulls
09-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Derrick Rose quite easily here. Won League MVP, led team to the best record in the league while the other players on the list had guys who produced as much as them and didn't win as much.

beasted86
09-12-2011, 11:02 PM
How did Kobe go from 1st player last year, to likely 7th or higher?

These polls really are meaningless if voters think a player can drop off that fast.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:02 PM
Crooner making dupes? Lol
I don't think he would be that upset over a poll
Most likely a troll or just some Knick fan who wants Amare to win

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 11:03 PM
I Think Rose should go 8th-10th range
Durant definetely Owns this slot and Kobe follows suit for me

Well since D.Will isn't going to be going ahead of Rose I don't see how he's 8-10 range quite honestly. What's your case for KD?

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:04 PM
How did Kobe go from 1st player last year, to likely 7th or higher?

These polls really are meaningless if voters think a player can drop off that fast.

Dallas whooping The Lakers probably swayed the majority vote
Not to mention there are legit cases for other SG especially Wade and Durant.

ManRam
09-12-2011, 11:04 PM
The only vote that will count for Amar'e thus far is Hellcrooner so Amar'e really has just 1 vote. Crooner's agenda is clear if he's the one creating all these dupes I'll have much less respect for him.

Let's not make accusations...

there's no proof of that from what I've found. Actually, based on the IP, I can pretty firmly say it's not him. The IP making those traces to the NYC area (not surprising considering who it's voting for).

ManRam
09-12-2011, 11:06 PM
How did Kobe go from 1st player last year, to likely 7th or higher?

These polls really are meaningless if voters think a player can drop off that fast.

Well, the first problem was that Kobe was voted #1 last year (he shouldn't have been). Secondly, people are prisoners of the moment I guess (explains why he was #1 last year). His team stunk it up in the playoffs...so people are going to knock him down.


People get too caught up in team success when comparing INDIVIDUALS.

beasted86
09-12-2011, 11:09 PM
Dallas whooping The Lakers probably swayed the majority vote
Not to mention there are legit cases for other SG especially Wade and Durant.

But I'm still not understanding the logic behind it.

Does this mean Kobe was only #1 all those years because his team won?

If so people have no idea how these polls are supposed to work, because statistically speaking, he had a better season this year than last year. With that in mind even with the loss lowering his rank, it doesn't explain how he could post a better season statistically, and drop from 1st to maybe even 8th.

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 11:09 PM
I don't know why Durant should be ahead of Kobe & Rose

ManRam
09-12-2011, 11:10 PM
But I'm still not understanding the logic behind it.

Does this mean Kobe was only #1 all those years because his team won?

If so people have no idea how these polls are supposed to work, because statistically speaking, he had a better season this year than last year. With that in mind even with the loss lowering his rank, it doesn't explain how he could post a better season statistically, and drop from 1st to maybe even 8th.

Look at the word bolded and underlined...no realize what website you're on, and then re-think why you don't understand.

Logic and PSD don't co-exist.

ManRam
09-12-2011, 11:11 PM
I actually would firmly switch my vote from KD to Kobe upon really thinking about it. I went with my gut (bias too maybe), and it was wrong.

Should still be Kobe.

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 11:12 PM
But I'm still not understanding the logic behind it.

Does this mean Kobe was only #1 all those years because his team won?

If so people have no idea how these polls are supposed to work, because statistically speaking, he had a better season this year than last year. With that in mind even with the loss lowering his rank, it doesn't explain how he could post a better season statistically, and drop from 1st to maybe even 8th.

Well if you factor in his playoff play that aspect was MUCH more impressive last year than this year.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:14 PM
But I'm still not understanding the logic behind it.

Does this mean Kobe was only #1 all those years because his team won?

If so people have no idea how these polls are supposed to work, because statistically speaking, he had a better season this year than last year. With that in mind even with the loss lowering his rank, it doesn't explain how he could post a better season statistically, and drop from 1st to maybe even 8th.

There isn't much logic to it which is the problem
Some are going strictly on playoff results. However it's a
Wrong way to vote because It's a team sport and the Lakers getting beat down shouldn't all be on Kobe. Dwight is ranked 2nd and look where his team ended up in the playoffs...yet Kobe falls much lower

Just how people vote
Kobe definitely should go 7th IMO

bovice163
09-12-2011, 11:20 PM
Kobe shouldn't have gone first those years anyway. If going by statistics, nearly every one of the guys who went before Kobe, had superior statistical seasons. When it's too close to decide, that's when you take team record and success in the playoffs into account. I don't see the point of all the controversy on the matter.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:21 PM
Well since D.Will isn't going to be going ahead of Rose I don't see how he's 8-10 range quite honestly. What's your case for KD?

Personally I was impressed more with Durant and Kobe last season than Rose despite being named MVP.

I'm still new to the advanced statistics part of the sport so I wont throw out numbers or pretend but I feel Rose success came more from the defensive system and him being the primary distribuitor making his offense look much better than it is. Compared to Kobe who had a clearly different and less effective Laker squad and Gasol yet had an improved year from last season and Durant who has Westbrook as his PG taking a ton of shots.

Just my opinion.

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 11:24 PM
Personally I was impressed more with Durant and Kobe last season than Rose despite being named MVP.

I'm still new to the advanced statistics part of the sport so I wont throw out numbers or pretend but I feel Rose success came more from the defensive system and him being the primary distribuitor making his offense look much better than it is. Compared to Kobe who had a clearly different and less effective Laker squad and Gasol yet had an improved year from last season and Durant who has Westbrook as his PG taking a ton of shots.

Just my opinion.

Understood. Just to ensure however, lets say Rose is around #10 who would go ahead of him? Pau and Deron (though they are not going to be eligible in these polls).

Hellcrooner
09-12-2011, 11:27 PM
The only vote that will count for Amar'e thus far is Hellcrooner so Amar'e really has just 1 vote. Crooner's agenda is clear if he's the one creating all these dupes I'll have much less respect for him.

Do you really think i would lose my time over a poll?

Lol.

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 11:31 PM
Do you really think i would lose my time over a poll?

Lol.

Crooner it's 5:30 am in Spain. How much sleep have you gotten? Lol

Hellcrooner
09-12-2011, 11:32 PM
Crooner it's 5:30 am in Spain. How much sleep have you gotten? Lol

i sleep on day time, im a 500 old vampire.
i saw dr naismith pull the fruit basket in a pole

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 11:33 PM
White players are coming back in NFL

TheRunKiller
09-12-2011, 11:33 PM
lmao oops wrong thread

tredigs
09-12-2011, 11:36 PM
I actually would firmly switch my vote from KD to Kobe upon really thinking about it. I went with my gut (bias too maybe), and it was wrong.

Should still be Kobe.

What's the case for Kobe over KD? Especially after their respective playoff runs this season.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:38 PM
Understood. Just to ensure however, lets say Rose is around #10 who would go ahead of him? Pau and Deron (though they are not going to be eligible in these polls).

With Durant and Kobe being my 6-7 vote respectively
I have no clue which 2 are going to emerge as options for the poll so
At the earliest Rose will be an 8th spot for me

I wasn't aware Deron or Pau would not available after Kobe and Durant Go which is why i withheld my vote for Rose at a specific spot so now i can safely say Rose will be my 8th vote lol

I forgot how the poll options were being selected so Sorry for the confusion.

Bruno
09-12-2011, 11:41 PM
If were ranking players based off last year alone, D-Will has no buisness cracking our top ten. Has everyone already forgotten what happened? Go check his stats, and the success of his teams.

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 11:42 PM
White players are coming back in NFL

lol fail

Swashcuff
09-12-2011, 11:43 PM
With Durant and Kobe being my 6-7 vote respectively
I have no clue which 2 are going to emerge as options for the poll so
At the earliest Rose will be an 8th spot for me

I wasn't aware Deron or Pau would not available after Kobe and Durant Go which is why i withheld my vote for Rose at a specific spot so now i can safely say Rose will be my 8th vote lol

I forgot how the poll options were being selected so Sorry for the confusion.

No apologies needed. I hear your POV. Amar'e would be available as he is now (my bad on that) and Pau if hypothetically speaking if Stoudemire goes before Rose but Deron wouldn't be until Rose is off since he was voted behind Rose in the earlier PG poll.

Chacarron
09-12-2011, 11:48 PM
Kobe Bean Bryant.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 11:49 PM
No apologies needed. I hear your POV. Amar'e would be available as he is now (my bad on that) and Pau if hypothetically speaking if Stoudemire goes before Rose but Deron wouldn't be until Rose is off since he was voted behind Rose in the earlier PG poll.

Well I believe Rose had a good enough year to be compared to Deron although Deron is still leaps and bounds a better playmaker than Rose.

Amare who I obviously like because of my alligence shouldn't crack Top ten however because of his abysmal rebounding and defense that makes Love, Hansborough, Hickson look like superstars.

I have Amare and Melo in the 11th - 15th ranks so I hope I don't see either in the Top 10 when there are much better candidates.

Rose should definitely be a top 10 based on last season. I don't see anyone outside of NY voting Amare over Rose despite both not being the best of defenders. Both are good leaders but I think a PG of Rose caliber is a better player than a PF like Amare who is an offensive monster to look at but non existent in half the other game

Baller1
09-13-2011, 12:00 AM
If Dirk can be thrust into the top 5, then clearly people are putting a lot into this year's playoff performance.

And if that's the case, then Durant should easily slide in above Kobe and Rose. Durant's incredible playoffs have gone relatively unnoticed due to Dirk's uncanny performance (rightfully so, of course).

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 12:03 AM
Well I believe Rose had a good enough year to be compared to Deron although Deron is still leaps and bounds a better playmaker than Rose.

Amare who I obviously like because of my alligence shouldn't crack Top ten however because of his abysmal rebounding and defense that makes Love, Hansborough, Hickson look like superstars.

I have Amare and Melo in the 11th - 15th ranks so I hope I don't see either in the Top 10 when there are much better candidates.

Rose should definitely be a top 10 based on last season. I don't see anyone outside of NY voting Amare over Rose despite both not being the best of defenders. Both are good leaders but I think a PG of Rose caliber is a better player than a PF like Amare who is an offensive monster to look at but non existent in half the other game

Quality post. Agreed on everything.

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 12:05 AM
If Dirk can be thrust into the top 5, then clearly people are putting a lot into this year's playoff performance.

And if that's the case, then Durant should easily slide in above Kobe and Rose. Durant's incredible playoffs have gone relatively unnoticed due to Dirk's uncanny performance (rightfully so, of course).

He was good. A far cry from incredible. Improved marginally from his regular season play. Incredible is a bit of a stretch however.

Baller1
09-13-2011, 12:10 AM
He was good. A far cry from incredible. Improved marginally from his regular season play. Incredible is a bit of a stretch however.

My bad, incredible in comparison to Rose and Kobe (who were bad, average at best).

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 12:12 AM
My bad, incredible in comparison to Rose and Kobe (who were bad, average at best).

Agreed. Though Rose did have a considerably heavier and harder burden to carry. But you're right regardless.

tredigs
09-13-2011, 12:13 AM
He was good. A far cry from incredible. Improved marginally from his regular season play. Incredible is a bit of a stretch however.

He did lead the post-season in scoring and have some incredible performances though - with two of them coming in the games that closed out Denver and Memphis (not to mention some of those clutch shots he was hitting. It was pretty damn impressive). I'd say it just did more to illuminate the divide between him Kobe being that the man was only able to put up 22/3/3, and not with elite D or especially efficient.

If Kobe is really going to get this vote here, it's 100% based on reputation and not on how the two compare as players at this point.

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 12:17 AM
He did lead the post-season in scoring and have some incredible performances though - with two of them coming in the games that closed out Denver and Memphis (not to mention some of those clutch shots he was hitting. It was pretty damn impressive). I'd say it just did more to illuminate the divide between him Kobe being that the man was only able to put up 22/3/3, and not with elite D or especially efficient.

If Kobe is really going to get this vote here, it's 100% based on reputation and not on how the two compare as players at this point.

Agreed. When I think incredible though I think LeBron in 09. baller101200 cleared it up.

bpo511
09-13-2011, 12:47 AM
its a tough decision for the # 6 player in the NBA for me. I cant decide who to go with, either Amare or Bynum? I think I'll go Amare because hes more hood

LTBaByyy
09-13-2011, 01:55 AM
Kobe!!!! He didnt play THAT BAD where he would go from 1st overall to 7th???

6th is perfect for him :) Then Rose then KD

Bruno
09-13-2011, 02:05 AM
What happened to all the Chicago fans?

ewmania
09-13-2011, 02:16 AM
kobe is a better all around scorer than durant and plays better perimeter defense

durant can't even post up

LTBaByyy
09-13-2011, 03:00 AM
Kobe is still better at slashing/scoring (not shooting), post up, passing, defense

Durant is better at shooting

Chacarron
09-13-2011, 03:11 AM
Kobe actually has better per 36 numbers than Durant if it accounts for something.

LTBaByyy
09-13-2011, 03:19 AM
I will get heat for this, but Kevin Durants shooting ability makes him seem better than he actually really is.

He is so skinny and cant play defense AT ALL, no post up game, not a slasher, def cant pass the ball or be a playmaker.

All of his points are Free Throws and jumpers

The_Pharouh
09-13-2011, 07:16 AM
It is close between KD and Kobe
voted for KD

ShakeN'Bake
09-13-2011, 07:31 AM
Its got to be Kobe here.

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 09:46 AM
I will get heat for this, but Kevin Durants shooting ability makes him seem better than he actually really is.

He is so skinny and cant play defense AT ALL, no post up game, not a slasher, def cant pass the ball or be a playmaker.

All of his points are Free Throws and jumpers

Kevin Durant is better defensively at his position than Dirk and Carmelo are at their's. Everything else you said really doesn't make much sense. You fail to realise the impact Durant's style has on his team and their opponents. Don't you think he disrupts a team D more than any player left on this list? Also to lead the league in scoring on just jumpers and free throws (your words not mine) must mean you're some kinda special. I mean to be so "limited" and still be arguably the best scorer in the league. That must account for something.

He's a small forward. He isn't asked to be a passer or a play maker. That's the guards job, just because LeBron can do it all doesn't mean we should compare everybody on his basis. LeBron is already a top 30 player only other SF in the league currently who has a case for top 50 is Paul Pierce.

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 09:59 AM
Could someone please make a case against Derrick Rose?

I mean he accumulates more offense for his team than anyone left, he's a better defender at his position than KD is at his and in terms of statistical production he has everyone else beat. Not to mention the fact that he did lead a team with no other real play maker or shot creator to the best record in the league (greatly aided by his supporting casts D and his head coach).

What's the case for Kobe or KD over Rose?

I'm still yet to cast my vote but currently it's between KD and Rose in all honesty.

JordansBulls
09-13-2011, 10:33 AM
How did Kobe go from 1st player last year, to likely 7th or higher?

These polls really are meaningless if voters think a player can drop off that fast.

I don't see how he was #1 last year. His teammate led in PER and Win Shares in the season and led the entire playoffs in win shares last year.

JordansBulls
09-13-2011, 10:34 AM
Could someone please make a case against Derrick Rose?

I mean he accumulates more offense for his team than anyone left, he's a better defender at his position than KD is at his and in terms of statistical production he has everyone else beat. Not to mention the fact that he did lead a team with no other real play maker or shot creator to the best record in the league (greatly aided by his supporting casts D and his head coach).

What's the case for Kobe or KD over Rose?

I'm still yet to cast my vote but currently it's between KD and Rose in all honesty.

I don't see how you can make a case for Kobe or Durant over Rose. Kobe had a guy on his team who finished 2nd in the league in Win Shares with similar PER. Durant had a guy on his team with the same PER he had. Rose led in each of the stats for the Bulls.

sargon21
09-13-2011, 10:37 AM
Rose or KD here, I went with Rose just for his superior playmaking skills.

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 10:48 AM
I don't see how you can make a case for Kobe or Durant over Rose. Kobe had a guy on his team who finished 2nd in the league in Win Shares with similar PER. Durant had a guy on his team with the same PER he had. Rose led in each of the stats for the Bulls.

I think we're coming to an agreement here JB. Rose had a much heavier burden to carry IMO than Kobe and Durant and did it effectively. He led his team to the best record in the league while vastly improving in most aspects of his game.

As I said before the Bulls D and coaching was a huge reason why they did so well but regardless more was placed on Rose's shoulders than KD's or Kobe's and IMO he did a great job of carrying it.

beasted86
09-13-2011, 11:22 AM
I don't see how he was #1 last year. His teammate led in PER and Win Shares in the season and led the entire playoffs in win shares last year.

Don't get really what this has to do with comparing individual players and their talents. You are always bringing up teammates, but I still don't get what this has to do with the individual player.

If Chris Bosh was 3rd in PER in 09-10, is he suddenly only a Paul Millsap caliber player because he came to the Heat in a different role and has different teammates? Isn't he still the same player..? This all just doesn't add up, and doesn't make any sense.

TheRunKiller
09-13-2011, 11:31 AM
What does Kevin Durant do so much better than Derrick Rose for him to be so far ahead?

JordansBulls
09-13-2011, 11:34 AM
Don't get really what this has to do with comparing individual players and their talents. You are always bringing up teammates, but I still don't get what this has to do with the individual player.

If Chris Bosh was 3rd in PER in 09-10, is he suddenly only a Paul Millsap caliber player because he came to the Heat in a different role and has different teammates? Isn't he still the same player..? This all just doesn't add up, and doesn't make any sense.

Because how are you the best in the league when your teammate outproduces you in the season and playoffs and when that guy is borderline top 10?

LakersIn5
09-13-2011, 11:46 AM
playoff success and failures overshadows the players talents. had we voted for the top 10 players before the playoffs dirk would not be top 5 and kobe will still be within the top 5 but because of what happened in the playoffs dirk suddenly became top 5 and kobe out of the top 5 but in reality their talent is still the same as before the playoffs started. have dirk not won the championship he would still be as talented as he is now with a championship. same goes with jason terry who made the top SG list though his talents was just the same as before the playoffs started.

pebloemer
09-13-2011, 11:48 AM
For those who are a bit on the fence as to who they'd choose here's some help.

Basic

Player FG% FT% TRB AST STL PTS
Kobe Bryant .451 .828 5.1 4.7 1.2 25.3
Kevin Durant .462 .880 6.8 2.7 1.1 27.7
Derrick Rose .445 .858 4.1 7.7 1.0 25.0

Advanced

Player PER TS% TRB% AST% USG% ORtg WS WS/48
Kobe Bryant 23.9 .548 8.5 26.7 35.1 111 10.3 0.179
Kevin Durant 23.6 .589 10.3 13.2 30.6 115 12.0 0.189
Derrick Rose 23.5 .550 6.4 38.7 32.2 113 13.1 0.208

SPM

Player G Min OSPM DSPM SPM
Kobe Bryant 82 2779 6.75 -1.08 5.67
Kevin Durant 78 3038 5.59 -0.61 4.97
Derrick Rose 81 3026 6.41 -1.03 5.38

RAPM

Player O/100 D/ 100 O+D/200
Kobe Bryant 2.1 -1.0 1.1
Kevin Durant 2.7 0.5 3.2
Derrick Rose 2.4 1.1 3.4

VORP

Player VORP
Kobe Bryant 6.41
Kevin Durant 5.79
Derrick Rose 7.66

VA and EWA

Player VA EWA
Kobe Bryant 557.4 18.6
Kevin Durant 598.4 19.9
Derrick Rose 569.8 19.0

Basically after all these #s it actually shows that Derrick Rose isn't such a bad choice here. However stats aren't everything. We have to take intangibles, impact, leadership, defense (though some of these stats can give an accurate gauge of player's defensive worth) etc. That's where Kobe comes in.
Tough choice here for me.

Thanks for posting the stats. I am one that has been on the fence over the three names. I had been leaning towards Kobe due to many of the intangibles, and seeing the negligible difference in the stats affirms that selection for me. I don't think Rose or Durant have proven they are better than Kobe. If I need one of these three players for a championship run, I'll take Kobe on my side. Not an easy choice, but it seems logical to me. Reputation, experience, leadership, etc all matter.

tcav701
09-13-2011, 11:56 AM
We have to do top 20-25 to see if this system works for candidates. Top 10 is too easy with guys in consecutive spots being almost interchangeable in their respective rankings.

nycericanguy
09-13-2011, 12:39 PM
Because how are you the best in the league when your teammate outproduces you in the season and playoffs and when that guy is borderline top 10?

so two top 10 players cant be on the same team? Wade? Lebron? they are no longer top 10 players because they play with each other now? I don't get that argument either.

JordansBulls
09-13-2011, 01:14 PM
so two top 10 players cant be on the same team? Wade? Lebron? they are no longer top 10 players because they play with each other now? I don't get that argument either.

Except Gasol was the one who outproduced him.

juno10
09-13-2011, 01:23 PM
I will get heat for this, but Kevin Durants shooting ability makes him seem better than he actually really is.

He is so skinny and cant play defense AT ALL, no post up game, not a slasher, def cant pass the ball or be a playmaker.

All of his points are Free Throws and jumpers

how can you call someone who is among the leageu leaders in FTA not a slasher? and i can say the same things about dirk no?

Hellcrooner
09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
Except Gasol was the one who outproduced him.

that does not indicate kobe should have been rated lower but that gasol should have been rated higher....and win finals mvp :p

Andrew32
09-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Durant

Rose/Kobe are close but I think Rose was slightly better last season.

SteBO
09-13-2011, 03:40 PM
I went Durant, but I was close to going Rose. Rose was asked to do alot this past year and he did really well. I just chose KD because of his mad efficiency on mostly jump shots, but he also gets to the line really well and shoots it an 85%+ clip.

Khalifa21
09-13-2011, 03:57 PM
Durant

Ebbs
09-13-2011, 06:03 PM
oh good lord, don't let Kobe win people.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bryanko01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2011

PPG, FG%, 3PT%, FT%, TS%, EFG%, WS, WS/48 all favor KD in the regular season.

KD completely sweeps him in the playoffs he was better statistically across the board and his team went further.

Baller1
09-13-2011, 06:26 PM
Kobe is gonna win this poll. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Stop going off of reputation... Kobe has taken a step back, accept it.

D1JM
09-13-2011, 06:29 PM
Durant

ManningToTyree
09-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Dumbass Dupes... don't worry they won't count.

HELLCROONER why did you choose Amar'e? :pity: Shame on you.

He did it in an attempt to get Pau on the board quicker. Which is dumb because Amar'e has no chance to win meaning he wasted his vote.

Kobe again.

Raph12
09-13-2011, 08:11 PM
Durant (who should've been ahead of Dirk IMHO), then I got Kobe and then Rose (would be Pau but I don't have that option)...

sargon21
09-13-2011, 08:14 PM
^ You would put Pau over Rose :laugh:

Gators123
09-13-2011, 08:26 PM
^ it might not be as funny as you think...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Pau Gasol 2010-11 30 82 3037 23.3 .589 .530 10.3 20.5 15.6 15.1 0.8 3.3 9.8 21.8 123 103 10.0 4.7 14.7 0.232
2 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 81 3026 23.5 .550 .485 3.2 9.4 6.4 38.7 1.5 1.3 13.1 32.2 113 103 8.4 4.8 13.1 0.208

Hellcrooner
09-13-2011, 08:28 PM
^ it might not be as funny as you think...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Pau Gasol 2010-11 30 82 3037 23.3 .589 .530 10.3 20.5 15.6 15.1 0.8 3.3 9.8 21.8 123 103 10.0 4.7 14.7 0.232
2 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 81 3026 23.5 .550 .485 3.2 9.4 6.4 38.7 1.5 1.3 13.1 32.2 113 103 8.4 4.8 13.1 0.208

shhhhhhhhhh be carefull, media may send some shoe company syndicate executiv e to your house.

That said http://img.ehowcdn.co.uk/article-page-main/ehow/images/a08/0a/cu/make-lot-spaghetti-keep-warm-800x800.jpg

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 08:29 PM
shhhhhhhhhh be carefull, media may send some shoe company syndicate executiv e to your house.

That said http://img.ehowcdn.co.uk/article-page-main/ehow/images/a08/0a/cu/make-lot-spaghetti-keep-warm-800x800.jpg

If anyone was even going based solely on statistical production Rose would be winning this poll.

sargon21
09-13-2011, 08:37 PM
^ it might not be as funny as you think...


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Pau Gasol 2010-11 30 82 3037 23.3 .589 .530 10.3 20.5 15.6 15.1 0.8 3.3 9.8 21.8 123 103 10.0 4.7 14.7 0.232
2 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 81 3026 23.5 .550 .485 3.2 9.4 6.4 38.7 1.5 1.3 13.1 32.2 113 103 8.4 4.8 13.1 0.208

oh yeah because what each did for their team was even close lol

sargon21
09-13-2011, 08:39 PM
If anyone was even going based solely on statistical production Rose would be winning this poll.

People can't seem to grasp the concept that efficiency doesn't tell the whole story. It can be used to compare players in similar situations or such, but to tell the whole story based off a couple of efficiency numbers is just ridiculous.

tredigs
09-13-2011, 08:43 PM
If anyone was even going based solely on statistical production Rose would be winning this poll.

When, last year alone? Or career. And if last year alone, FIBA Worlds + regular season + playoffs, regular season, or just second half + playoffs?

Eye test aside, most of the evidence points to Durant being the better player, and I do indeed hold the only time the two have played on the same team together in a fairly high regard in this scenario. The Team USA that Rose started for alongside KD was unarguably the most 1-person dominated team in USA history - and they took Gold. Rose was on par with Westbrook, just as Westbrook was on par with him in many regards again this season. But KD is very clearly OKC's best player when it comes down to it - just as he was very clearly better than Rose in the playoffs this year ("when it came down to it").

It was Rose's wildly non-efficient 3 point chucking throughout the 2nd half of the year + playoffs that lost his steam for me. If he can remove that and replace it with more slashes to the hoop/kickouts to Deng/Korver, we've got ourselves a debate at some point in the future. That is if KD does not improve himself.

Both were quite clearly better than Kobe, and this vote should not be this close. I could care less what his per-36 numbers were (it's much easier to put up solid per-36 numbers than it is to ACTUALLY put them up for 36 minutes an entire season+playoffs. There's a reason his minutes are now so limited).

sargon21
09-13-2011, 08:55 PM
When, last year alone? Or career. And if last year alone, FIBA Worlds + regular season + playoffs, regular season, or just second half + playoffs?

Eye test aside, most of the evidence points to Durant being the better player, and I do indeed hold the only time the two have played on the same team together in a fairly high regard in this scenario. The Team USA that Rose started for alongside KD was unarguably the most 1-person dominated team in USA history - and they took Gold. Rose was on par with Westbrook, just as Westbrook was on par with him in many regards again this season. But KD is very clearly OKC's best player when it comes down to it - just as he was very clearly better than Rose in the playoffs this year ("when it came down to it").

It was Rose's wildly non-efficient 3 point chucking throughout the 2nd half of the year + playoffs that lost his steam for me. If he can remove that and replace it with more slashes to the hoop/kickouts to Deng/Korver, we've got ourselves a debate at some point in the future. That is if KD does not improve himself.

Both were quite clearly better than Kobe, and this vote should not be this close. I could care less what his per-36 numbers were (it's much easier to put up solid per-36 numbers than it is to ACTUALLY put them up for 36 minutes an entire season+playoffs. There's a reason his minutes are now so limited).

Jesus christ, you need to let this whole FIBA nonsense go, completely different than the NBA game, give me a break. You don't need that to prove Durant's better than Rose.

TheNumber37
09-13-2011, 09:03 PM
kobe is going to thrust himself back into the top 3 this season and we all know it.
Why is Amare up here but Melo isn't?

Swashcuff
09-13-2011, 09:15 PM
When, last year alone? Or career. And if last year alone, FIBA Worlds + regular season + playoffs, regular season, or just second half + playoffs?

I'm going regular season and playoffs. While Rose didn't have an very good post season he was still better than that of Kobe's and IMO going against arguably the best perimeter D in the league basically playing the role of both PG and SG you really can't expect very much from him there. I mean it
wasn't just Rose who played badly for the Bulls in the post season either.


Eye test aside, most of the evidence points to Durant being the better player, and I do indeed hold the only time the two have played on the same team together in a fairly high regard in this scenario. The Team USA that Rose started for alongside KD was unarguably the most 1-person dominated team in USA history - and they took Gold. Rose was on par with Westbrook, just as Westbrook was on par with him in many regards again this season. But KD is very clearly OKC's best player when it comes down to it - just as he was very clearly better than Rose in the playoffs this year ("when it came down to it").

Agreed, I hold no gripe with anything said here. I just think we shouldn't overlook the fact that Rose's job this post season really wasn't a very easy one. I mean Derrick Rose had 6 games of a game score of 20+ in the post season, the rest of his team combined for 5 games of a game score of 20+. Durant however had 8 on his own, but his team also matched him with 8 as well. I mean it in no way discredits your point that KD was better than Rose in the post season because that is indeed fact but when your teammates are not able to pick up the slack for you it becomes a bit more profound.

Also Rose's worst series was against the Heat. The same Heat who threw to of the best perimeter defenders in the league at Rose and really wrecked his post season play. Had this been against the Thunder they would not have been able to since Russell Westbrook and James Harden are both capable of not only scoring in different ways but creating their own shots and shots for others. A department in which Rose's cast was severely lacking.


It was Rose's wildly non-efficient 3 point chucking throughout the 2nd half of the year + playoffs that lost his steam for me. If he can remove that and replace it with more slashes to the hoop/kickouts to Deng/Korver, we've got ourselves a debate at some point in the future. That is if KD does not improve himself.

Can't dispute this. I agree %100.


Both were quite clearly better than Kobe, and this vote should not be this close. I could care less what his per-36 numbers were (it's much easier to put up solid per-36 numbers than it is to ACTUALLY put them up for 36 minutes an entire season+playoffs. There's a reason his minutes are now so limited).

I also agree that they were better than Kobe.

What's your take on Rose's D vs KD's? IMO at the PG position D is not as important as the SF but for the sake of the argument however I don't think it should be forgotten.

The_Jamal
09-13-2011, 10:33 PM
kobe is going to thrust himself back into the top 3 this season and we all know it.
Why is Amare up here but Melo isn't?

Im going to curbstomp you

LakersIn5
09-13-2011, 11:03 PM
kobeeeeeeeeeeeee

Evolution23
09-13-2011, 11:47 PM
I voted Amare cause I can

LTBaByyy
09-13-2011, 11:56 PM
Kobe
Rose
Durant
Amare
Melo

Finishes the poll!!!! Deron Williams and Pau Gasol just missing the cut

Hawkeye15
09-13-2011, 11:59 PM
opening up the voting results tells the story here....

Hellcrooner
09-14-2011, 12:02 AM
opening up the voting results tells the story here....

what story, that im doing a rosa parks complaint vote ?

Ovratd1up
09-14-2011, 12:15 AM
Is it fair to say that Rose had a top 3-5 regular season?

Vincent33
09-14-2011, 12:32 AM
Out of the choices, I'd take Kobe for sure.

Sadds The Gr8
09-14-2011, 12:33 AM
opening up the voting results tells the story here....

lol this...

The_Jamal
09-14-2011, 01:25 AM
Amare over Pau and Bosh is really pretty sickening and the only ****** part with how this list will turn out

Baller1
09-14-2011, 02:30 AM
Hawkeye said it perfectly.

I'm probably the only biased vote for Durant. Meanwhile, a good 50-70% of the rest of the players' votes are completely biased. Give Durant the spot.

The_Jamal
09-14-2011, 02:53 AM
how are u biased if its a fair place for him?

Baller1
09-14-2011, 03:01 AM
how are u biased if its a fair place for him?

You're right, my bad.. Let me say it a different way I guess.

I'm the only Thunder fan to vote for Durant, whereas a majority of the Kobe/Rose votes are from biased LA/Chicago fans.

bholly
09-14-2011, 03:22 AM
how are u biased if its a fair place for him?

easily? being biased doesn't mean you're wrong or want an outcome that isn't fair, it just means your reasoning is flawed.

Cano4prez
09-14-2011, 06:07 AM
Is it fair to say that Rose had a top 3-5 regular season?

No

SteBO
09-14-2011, 08:46 AM
I really like kobe, but I see a lot of guys who voted for bryant have yet to make a good case for him.

KnicksR4Real
09-14-2011, 08:48 AM
Wheres melo bro?

tcav701
09-14-2011, 08:56 AM
Wheres melo bro?

Cant go till after Durant....

I do see that you voted for Amare here so in reality you dont deserve a vote.

TheRunKiller
09-14-2011, 09:34 AM
No one can give me a good enough reason why Durant has so many more votes the Rose does. I don't get it.

sammid21
09-14-2011, 10:17 AM
Durant here, then Rose, then Kobe. I think last season Rose surpassed Kobe as he looks to be on the decline. But its a thin line between Rose and Kobe. Maybe if the Lakers wouldve made a series against Dallas instead of getting sweeped I'd put Kobe ahead of Rose

Ebbs
09-14-2011, 10:33 AM
Even more sad than Durant losing this vote is that Deron may legit not make the top 10 on this list.

Avenged
09-14-2011, 02:44 PM
Even more sad than Durant losing this vote is that Deron may legit not make the top 10 on this list.

He didn't have a top 10 year.

OGMarkWahlberg
09-14-2011, 08:47 PM
went with Durant, it truly is unbelievable that Kobe has gone from the top player in the NBA the past two years to possibly outta the top 5

LTBaByyy
09-15-2011, 01:06 AM
Kobe win!!!!! :)

And to go from the beginning of the season me and a special OKC fan argued everyday but it ends up with the Mavs winning the championship and Dirk being a top 5 player again, I dont trash talk for nothing :)

Didnt everyone have Durant the 3rd best player overall after he led USA to gold lol

Rose is next, the MVP

The_Jamal
09-15-2011, 01:42 AM
went with Durant, it truly is unbelievable that Kobe has gone from the top player in the NBA the past two years to possibly outta the top 5

Except for the fact that Kobe wasn't the top player in the NBA the last 2 years.

GREATNESS ONE
09-15-2011, 02:04 AM
Except for the fact that Kobe wasn't the top player in the NBA the last 2 years.

:violin:

NYKNYGNYY
09-15-2011, 02:32 AM
it still amazes me how someone could put andrew bynum as there vote

Kobes a Killer
09-15-2011, 03:15 AM
Durant is a weak rebounder and a poor defender, he is not better than Kobe, yet.

Baller1
09-15-2011, 03:42 AM
Durant is a weak rebounder and a poor defender, he is not better than Kobe, yet.

Durant is far from a "weak rebounder".

Kobes a Killer
09-15-2011, 04:31 AM
Durant is far from a "weak rebounder".

He's far from a good rebounder

Kobes a Killer
09-15-2011, 04:35 AM
Durant is far from a "weak rebounder".

He avg 6.8 rpg in regular season, not that great for someone who is 6'9. In the playoffs he avg over 8 which is much more respectable

Jewelz0376
09-15-2011, 05:07 AM
I went with Kobe here...Offensively I give the edge to Kobe because while Durant is a better scorer at this point in Kobe's career, Kobe can create for his teammates much better to go along with his scoring...

As far as D goes Kobe may not be what he used to be, but he's still better on D than KD

jimm120
09-15-2011, 07:27 AM
I voyed durany here because i wany melo to be on yhe board for the 8th spot, which is around where he belongs.

Deron doesnt deserve a top 10 this year. Why? Deron went from a respectable % shooting and 19ppg & 9 ast to 14ppg & and 12 ast per game...while shooting around 35%. His assists might have gone up to such huge amounts, but his efficiency went to worsemthan rondo levels.

tredigs
09-15-2011, 09:39 AM
I went with Kobe here...Offensively I give the edge to Kobe because while Durant is a better scorer at this point in Kobe's career, Kobe can create for his teammates much better to go along with his scoring...

As far as D goes Kobe may not be what he used to be, but he's still better on D than KD

Ehhh. Don't know about that even. The kid rarely lagged on the defensive end (and even saw him win a couple games with last second blocked shots...can't remember any memorable plays from Kobe... You tell me). In general he was very solid defensively and his superior length+atleticism to Kobe is being utilized.

Anyway, Ill take the guy who led the playoffs in scoring+8 boards a game while leading the Thunder deep into the WC Finals over the aging vet who put up 22/3/3 and didnt do enough to prevent a 2nd round sweep.

I'll gladly laugh at being the minority on this one. No courtesy votes based on nastolgia over here.

RZZZA
09-15-2011, 11:41 AM
I put Rose ahead of Durant or Kobe, but I'm biased towards elite point guards. Their job is tougher. Kobe did not have a great year where he's statistically clearly ahead of Rose, anyway.

Kobes a Killer
09-15-2011, 11:56 AM
I put Rose ahead of Durant or Kobe, but I'm biased towards elite point guards. Their job is tougher. Kobe did not have a great year where he's statistically clearly ahead of Rose, anyway.

I don't know the exact numbers but Kobe had the third most efficient year of his career per 36 minutes. So im not exactly sure what you're talking about you rose homer

Swashcuff
09-15-2011, 12:01 PM
I don't know the exact numbers but Kobe had the third most efficient year of his career per 36 minutes. So im not exactly sure what you're talking about you rose homer

I proved earlier in this thread exactly why Rose is surperior to Kobe statistically and really no argument could be made.

Using per 36 is the worst way to gauge a player's worth. Per 36 makes Reggie Evans a G.O.A.T. rebounder and Todd McCullough would have been a top 5 C of his time if we used per 36. It by no means accurately gives an indicator as to what a player would do. It's a prediction that is far from reality.

juno10
09-15-2011, 12:13 PM
He avg 6.8 rpg in regular season, not that great for someone who is 6'9. In the playoffs he avg over 8 which is much more respectable

he's a perimeter player i think thats pretty good.

RZZZA
09-15-2011, 12:24 PM
I don't know the exact numbers but Kobe had the third most efficient year of his career per 36 minutes. So im not exactly sure what you're talking about you rose homer

Why you calling me a homer, bro? You trying to say you aren't a Kobe homer?

Ehh, it really doesn't matter. Rose ain't winning this poll.

Kobes a Killer
09-16-2011, 02:06 PM
Why you calling me a homer, bro? You trying to say you aren't a Kobe homer?

Ehh, it really doesn't matter. Rose ain't winning this poll.

If I was a Kobe homer I would think he is top 5 which he is not. He can regain top 5 status with a great season but it is unlikely. As for Durant avg 6.8 rebounds a game actually is pretty decent for a perimeter play although I think 7.8 would be better. Your argument on the per 36 is good I'm just trying to point out Kobe had a pretty decent season for the minutes he played. I'm sorry but it's gonna be a couple years before rose passes Kobe. And rose will never be able to touch kobes prime