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JordansBulls
09-12-2011, 11:55 AM
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2011/09/shaq-dwight-howard-has-no-competition-at-center.html



Retired Shaquille O’Neal says that Magic star Dwight Howard should dominate for one simple reason: He has no competition at center — unlike Shaq said he did when he played in the NBA.

“If Dwight doesn’t win two or three championships, I’m going to be disappointed. He doesn’t have nobody. When I came in the league, I had to go through Alonzo Mourning, Arvydas Sabonis, Kevin Duckworth, Rik Smits,” O’Neal said in an interview with the New Orleans Times-Picayune.

“Now I can’t name any other centers besides Kendrick Perkins and Andrew Bynum. Who else is there? That’s it.”

Shaq, recently honored with a statue by his alma mater LSU, repeated an opinion he has long held about Howard borrowing Shaq’s Superman identity. (Of course, Shaq stole it from Clark Kent.)

“But my thing is if you want to call yourself me (Superman), then you’ve got big shoes to fill. I’m not in the Superman this, and Superman that. He won a dunk contest with a cape. If you want to be called Superman because of that, it’s fine with me. I’m Superman for other reasons,” he said.

“I don’t envy him; he’s a great young player. But I’ve never seen him dog another center out. I tried to dog centers out. I went at David Robinson.”

Not exactly sure what Shaq means about dogging out another center, but Howard has exposed many and made them foolish.

As far as his relationship with Howard, Shaq said, “His mom and my mom are good friends. I don’t have a problem.”

Sadds The Gr8
09-12-2011, 11:58 AM
he's right, but Howard started taking the right steps this year when he became a dominant offensive player. if he continues to dominate like he did in the playoffs he'll be fine. he just needs a sidekick/decent team around him.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Shaq is right

With Yao gone you figure the best Centers after Dwight are an old Duncan, and the unable to stay healthy Centers Bynum/Oden. No real competition unless you consider guys like Chandler, Noah, Bogut, Horford threats.

Avenged
09-12-2011, 12:03 PM
Agree with Shaq on some things. But I mean, even if he did have the competition at the 5, do people think he won't dominate? He has the defensive and offensive skills for a top 5 player in the league regardless. And the whole not winning a championship thing, it's tough to say. It's not like having 1 dominant center out of the whole league means you have to win a championship when management doesn't put the pieces to get you to that level.

ManRam
09-12-2011, 12:05 PM
There are very few elite offensive centers....but elite defensive centers are a bit more common. Offensively he goes against stronger players than he goes against when he's defending...but it's still a lot worse on both sides than most eras.

Geargo Wallace
09-12-2011, 12:16 PM
He just has to carry a bunch of overpaid players on his shoulders.

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 12:19 PM
There are very few elite offensive centers....but elite defensive centers are a bit more common. Offensively he goes against stronger players than he goes against when he's defending...but it's still a lot worse on both sides than most eras.

I really don't see many defensively elite centers to be honest.

I actually see more offensively talented PF's who play Center for their team like Al Jefferson, David Lee, Al Horford, etc than I see defensive specialist Centers for there team.

Hawkeye15
09-12-2011, 12:19 PM
Shaq isn't saying anything an intelligent basketball fan doesn't already know. When Andrew Bynum wins #2 center in the NBA here, we all understand the position is as weak as it has been in as long as we can remember.

McJoe
09-12-2011, 12:23 PM
he's right, but Howard started taking the right steps this year when he became a dominant offensive player. if he continues to dominate like he did in the playoffs he'll be fine. he just needs a sidekick/decent team around him.

I agree. Shaq won championships with Kobe in LA and Wade in Miami. He didn't win when he didn't have help in Orlando just like Dwight right now. Dwight needs some help and then the league is in trouble...

29$JerZ
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
If Dwight wants a title he really needs to go to a team with 2 stars imo
The AI, LeBron and now Dwight teams where you build around your lone star by surrounding him with simply role players I don't see winning at all.

Orlando really dug themselves in a hole with thier transactions. Hedo and Gilbert Alone are going to cost nearly 30 million next season and are on the books for 3 years total.

Sort of the same boat as NY where you have Melo/Amar'e alone making almost 37 million alone but they at least have some cheap talent and CAP space for next season... Orlando is screwed for the next 3.

JordansBulls
09-12-2011, 12:31 PM
I agree. Shaq won championships with Kobe in LA and Wade in Miami. He didn't win when he didn't have help in Orlando just like Dwight right now. Dwight needs some help and then the league is in trouble...

Woah, didn't have help in Orlando????:speechless:

You want to rethink that statement?

LOOTERX9
09-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Shaq is wrong to say this.
Shaq's trying to dimenish Howard before he even wins a title by saying this. Shaq had a little competion when he first came in the league but those guys were old and not that great anyway. When shaq was in prime he had no real competion either, and kobe to help him. Shaq is an *** hole.

RZZZA
09-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Howard should watch out for Asik, since Asik isn't afraid of him and gets in his head every game...lol

ShakeN'Bake
09-12-2011, 12:41 PM
Shaq isn't saying anything an intelligent basketball fan doesn't already know. When Andrew Bynum wins #2 center in the NBA here, we all understand the position is as weak as it has been in as long as we can remember.

Yup.

I think Dwight would still do well if he had to play against better competition.

llemon
09-12-2011, 01:10 PM
I agree. Shaq won championships with Kobe in LA and Wade in Miami. He didn't win when he didn't have help in Orlando just like Dwight right now. Dwight needs some help and then the league is in trouble...

Shaq had Penny, Dennis (3D) Scott, Nick Anderson at the top of their games, and very steady Horace Grant.

Shaq just wasn't Shaq yet.

shep33
09-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Shaq in his prime in LA had probably just as bad competition. Remember the playoffs...

La vs. Portland- an old Sabonis on bad knees
La vs. Sac-town- An older Vlade, who was never a good defender
La vs. New Jersey- Todd McCallaugh
La vs. Philly- an aging Dikembe, who shaq outweighed by like 150 lbs
La vs. San Antonio- The Admiral in his final days.

llemon
09-12-2011, 01:12 PM
Jason Collins, Superman's kryptonite

LOOTERX9
09-12-2011, 01:17 PM
Shaq in his prime in LA had probably just as bad competition. Remember the playoffs...

La vs. Portland- an old Sabonis on bad knees
La vs. Sac-town- An older Vlade, who was never a good defender
La vs. New Jersey- Todd McCallaugh
La vs. Philly- an aging Dikembe, who shaq outweighed by like 150 lbs
La vs. San Antonio- The Admiral in his final days.



I agree, I can't take Shaq's comments seriously. And anyone who does obviously did not watch shaq play against all the garbage centers in his prime. It was pathetic the competition shaq had at the center position.

MagicBucsSox
09-12-2011, 01:29 PM
What competition did mike have at 2guard? No one talks about that. No one brings up the perimeter players today are far greater than mikes era, who was wilts comp at cent other then two guys?

Ppl love to hate on Dwight, shaw talks about titles as if he ever took a team w/o a top 5 player next to him

Andrew32
09-12-2011, 01:31 PM
Shaq had Penny, Dennis (3D) Scott, Nick Anderson at the top of their games, and very steady Horace Grant.

Shaq just wasn't Shaq yet.

Shaq was Shaq and those Magic Casts were decent, the problem was he was in his 1st 3 years in the league and his team went against Prime Jordan in the playoffs and against Hakeem as his absolute Peak.

So yea.. its hard to blame him especially since he put up GOAT performances in those playoff series and his supporting Cast choked heavily (especially vs the Rockets)


94 - G3 Pacers | Shaq = 9-17, 23 Points, 14 Boards (6 offensive)
Supporting Cast | Penny manages only 13/4(assists) and commits 10 turnovers.
D.Scott and Nicky Anderson (both starters 40+Min) combine to shoot 7-27 (ouch)..
very little production off the bench.. really Shaqs supporting cast couldn't have played much worse this game.


96 - G4 Bulls | Shaq = 11-13, 28 Points, 9 Boards, 3 Assists, 3 Blocks, 85%FG, 67%FT
Notes : Close Game, Magic lose due to the brilliant play of Jordan (45 Points 70%FG) and the failure of many players outside of Shaq contributing for Orlando. Penny drops 28/8 but shoots 42% from the field and 1-6 from downtown.
only other starters who contributed combine to shoot 7-19 with D.Scott shooting especially poor from the field.and having a terrible all around game.

SteBO
09-12-2011, 01:40 PM
Shaq really isn't saying anything new here. Dwight is the cream of the crop at the center spot now.

Chronz
09-12-2011, 01:46 PM
Shaq had to go thru Mourning? Whats he mean by this? Anyways I found it interesting that he listed Bynum as a Center of significance, that should shut the haters up.


Shaq had Penny, Dennis (3D) Scott, Nick Anderson at the top of their , and very steady Horace Grant.

Shaq just wasn't Shaq yet.

A very good squad but he basically only had that group for 1 playoff run.

Chronz
09-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Jason Collins, Superman's kryptonite

Which one?

llemon
09-12-2011, 01:55 PM
A very good squad but he basically only had that group for 1 playoff run.

'94, 95, '96 playoffs. Grant wasn't there in '94

Chronz
09-12-2011, 02:07 PM
'94, 95, '96 playoffs. Grant wasn't there in '94

He wasnt there for 96 either, that leaves 1 playoff run.

Andrew32
09-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Shaq went through Duncan/DRob, The Wallace Twins, DPOY Mutombo, DPOY Mourning (00), Sabonis and the TBlazer Defense, Smits and the Pacers post defense.

I'd love to see DHoward try and drop 35/13 on DRob/Duncan.

Shaq was unstoppable offensively this was clear after he dropped 29ppg on close to 60% shooting on Hakeem in 95. If Hakeem, Mutombo, Mourning, Wallace Twins fail to stop you, you are the greatest offensive force of all time.

The Bigmen position was more then Decent in the early 00's with Duncan and KG filling in for Hakeem and DRob or whoever, from 05 on with Duncan/KG/Yao all starting to decline or retire is when the position truly became weak.

synister281
09-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Shaq sounds a little salty that another big man is taking over the reigns in Orlando.

llemon
09-12-2011, 02:47 PM
He wasnt there for 96 either, that leaves 1 playoff run.

Horace played in 9 playoff games for Magic in '96, averaging over 37 mpg.

Chronz
09-12-2011, 02:55 PM
Horace played in 9 playoff games for Magic in '96, averaging over 37 mpg.
I forget what your stance was on Karl Malone playin in the 2004 Finals. Were you the guy who was making a big deal of him actually being on the court? If so we clearly have a very different definition of availability. I dont care that Horace was there for 9 playoff games when he gets injured in G.1 of the biggest series of the season. Thats not having your team available for the playoff run.

So if you think injuries play no role in sports then we will just have to agree to disagree.

Chronz
09-12-2011, 02:56 PM
Shaq went through Duncan/DRob, The Wallace Twins, DPOY Mutombo, DPOY Mourning (00), Sabonis and the TBlazer Defense, Smits and the Pacers post defense.

I'd love to see DHoward try and drop 35/13 on DRob/Duncan.

Shaq was unstoppable offensively this was clear after he dropped 29ppg on close to 60% shooting on Hakeem in 95. If Hakeem, Mutombo, Mourning, Wallace Twins fail to stop you, you are the greatest offensive force of all time.

The Bigmen position was more then Decent in the early 00's with Duncan and KG filling in for Hakeem and DRob or whoever, from 05 on with Duncan/KG/Yao all starting to decline or retire is when the position truly became weak.
True but Shaq didnt say that. He was talking about 1 position as if thats all there is to it when your obstacles to winning or at the least dominating are measured by the collective TEAM DEFENSE.

llemon
09-12-2011, 03:07 PM
I forget what your stance was on Karl Malone playin in the 2004 Finals. Were you the guy who was making a big deal of him actually being on the court? If so we clearly have a very different definition of availability. I dont care that Horace was there for 9 playoff games when he gets injured in G.1 of the biggest series of the season. Thats not having your team available for the playoff run.

So if you think injuries play no role in sports then we will just have to agree to disagree.

You do realize that they are playing basketball, and players do get injured.

Grant actually played in the ECF, where Magic lost to Jordan's Bulls.

What was the Bulls record that year?

I'd say a player playing 37 mpg for 9 games and helping you get to the ECF is a guy who was available for a playoff run.

But, of course, Shaq had to get through Luc Longley to get to the Finals. Not an easy task.

naps
09-12-2011, 03:08 PM
The man speaks the truth. And truth doesn't necessarily sound sweet always.

llemon
09-12-2011, 03:10 PM
The man speaks the truth. And truth doesn't necessarily sound sweet always.

I guess when you dig through all the crap Shaq spews out, occasionally you will find a bit of truth.

Bruno
09-12-2011, 03:22 PM
He just has to carry a bunch of overpaid players on his shoulders.

It's a shame. Richardson and Turk were useless in the playoffs.

Trading Lewis for Arenas was stupid too.

Sactown
09-12-2011, 05:30 PM
DeMarcus Cousins is going to be a big threat in a few years

llemon
09-12-2011, 05:59 PM
DeMarcus Cousins is going to be a big threat in a few years

I agree. I think Nets, TWolves and Sixers made a big mistake not selecting DeMarcus.

Slimsim
09-12-2011, 06:00 PM
Shaq sounds a little salty that another big man is taking over the reigns in Orlando.

shaq left orlando so i doubt he care. It sounds more like shaq is challenging Howard to win 2 or 3 championship

llemon
09-12-2011, 06:04 PM
shaq left orlando so i doubt he care. It sounds more like shaq is challenging Howard to win 2 or 3 championship

Sounds more like Shaq being Shaq and running his big yap again to gain some attention.

Chronz
09-12-2011, 06:19 PM
You do realize that they are playing basketball, and players do get injured.
Which is why I dont understand your position. Horace was injured in G.1 of the series they needed him for. Thats not a playoff run to me but if your just trying to say he was around against the lesser teams than yea.


Grant actually played in the ECF, where Magic lost to Jordan's Bulls.
Umm Karl Malone actually played in the Finals, it doesnt mean he was fit to play. He should have sat from day 1. Similarly, Horace Grant was CLEARLY hurt.


What was the Bulls record that year?
A relevant point had I been arguing that the Magic would have won against them, and not merely pointing out the fact that he didnt have the chance to go to war with that core aside from that 1 season.


I'd say a player playing 37 mpg for 9 games and helping you get to the ECF is a guy who was available for a playoff run.

Like I said, agree to disagree. To me, playoff run means lasting throughout its entirety or at the very least being there for the tough series, Grant wasnt able to go anywhere near full speed against Chicago. If your just trying to say he played alot of games against the inferior comp then I agree, he did play a great % of their games. But you cant make the claim that he had that core of players for many seasons when it was basically 1 year.


But, of course, Shaq had to get through Luc Longley to get to the Finals. Not an easy task.

He eventually slayed Longley like he did all the other legends once the 2k era got off the ground.

JonnyBrav000
09-12-2011, 06:45 PM
Shaq is wrong to say this.
Shaq's trying to dimenish Howard before he even wins a title by saying this. Shaq had a little competion when he first came in the league but those guys were old and not that great anyway. When shaq was in prime he had no real competion either, and kobe to help him. Shaq is an *** hole.

I agree, Shaq is an ******* and needs to get over himself. It's pathetic how he won't give credit to Dwight. In my opinion Dwight is a much more superior athlete and defensive player than Shaq ever was, When Dwight finally get's some help, he will step his game to another level and will easily be better than Shaq. Hopefully he is able to leave Orlando because it won't happen there.

Shaq needs to realize he didn't do anything on his own, all throughout his career he had help, even when he was losing in Orlando, penny was arguably just as important as Shaq was to that team. In LA, Kobe was Shaq's sidekick but just as talented if not more, and was better than Shaq by their third championship together, plus Shaq was always a horrible late game player because you can just play hack a Shaq where he sucks at the free throw line. In Miami he was Dwayne Wade's sidekick and pretty much watched Wade put the team on his back and won the championship alone pretty much. Another thing Shaq needs to remember is that the talent at Center was not that deep when he was in his prime as well. Shaq is probably just jealous because he realizes Dwight has an opportunity to leave Shaq behind in the dust if he lands on the right team. I like Orlando, but for Dwights sake I hope he ends up on a real team, then Shaq will just have to eat his words because Dwight will become the new superman and for a much longer period of time because Dwight takes care of his body.

llemon
09-12-2011, 06:49 PM
Which is why I dont understand your position. Horace was injured in G.1 of the series they needed him for. Thats not a playoff run to me but if your just trying to say he was around against the lesser teams than yea.


Umm Karl Malone actually played in the Finals, it doesnt mean he was fit to play. He should have sat from day 1. Similarly, Horace Grant was CLEARLY hurt.


A relevant point had I been arguing that the Magic would have won against them, and not merely pointing out the fact that he didnt have the chance to go to war with that core aside from that 1 season.


Like I said, agree to disagree. To me, playoff run means lasting throughout its entirety or at the very least being there for the tough series, Grant wasnt able to go anywhere near full speed against Chicago. If your just trying to say he played alot of games against the inferior comp then I agree, he did play a great % of their games. But you cant make the claim that he had that core of players for many seasons when it was basically 1 year.


He eventually slayed Longley like he did all the other legends once the 2k era got off the ground.

PLEASE, of course Grant was part of Magics run to the ECF. 9 games at 37 mpg? Let it go Chronz.

And certainly Malone would have helped the Lakers in the '04 Finals (as much as he could at that point in his career). But when you depend on old players, you can't find that when they are injured, it's surprising. And, most importantly, Kobe was intent on dumping the '04 Finals. Whatever more Malone could have contributed wouldn't have overcome Kobe's Death Wish.

And the Longley comment was a joke. You didn't get that?

smith&wesson
09-12-2011, 06:59 PM
i disagree with shaq here. rick smits ? seriously shaq ?

howard
bynam
bogut
chandler
horford
noah
perkins

rockbottom2010
09-12-2011, 07:04 PM
two words.....andre drummond

Chronz
09-12-2011, 07:18 PM
PLEASE, of course Grant was part of Magics run to the ECF. 9 at 37 mpg? Let it go Chronz.
Your not following me here, Ive already explained the difference of definitions between yours and mines. Mines centers around the fact that he wasnt there for the series they needed him. Yours centers around him aiding the Magic in defeating lesser teams. There is nothing to let go unless you cant accept that we both have different definitions. I agree with your stance, I just dont see the significance given the context.


And certainly Malone would have helped the Lakers in the '04 Finals (as much as he could at that point in his career). But when you depend on old players, you can't find that when they are injured, it's surprising. And, most importantly, Kobe was intent on dumping the '04 Finals. Whatever more Malone could have contributed wouldn't have overcome Kobe's Death Wish.

If your right, all your doing is strengthening the stance on Grant because there was no reason to expect him to get hurt.

But on your point, Kobe was swarmed and the Lakers lacked the options to relieve him without Malone as an outlet. And I dont see your point about durability when your talking about Karl Malone. Its certainly a shock ANY time he gos down. For all you know he could have came back the following year and played 82 games he certainly had the suitors willing to try. GP didnt have trouble staying healthy, he just sucked.


And the Longley comment was a joke. You didn't get that?

Havent you seen my Ostertag thread? The guy eliminated Shaq, Dream, AND D-Rob in the same post season. Now thats a playoff run, he only fell to the mighty Longley

llemon
09-12-2011, 07:26 PM
Your not following me here, Ive already explained the difference of definitions between yours and mines. Mines centers around the fact that he wasnt there for the series they needed him. Yours centers around him aiding the Magic in defeating lesser teams. There is nothing to let go unless you cant accept that we both have different definitions. I agree with your stance, I just dont see the significance given the context.


If your right, all your doing is strengthening the stance on Grant because there was no reason to expect him to get hurt.

But on your point, Kobe was swarmed and the Lakers lacked the options to relieve him without Malone as an outlet. And I dont see your point about durability when your talking about Karl Malone. Its certainly a shock ANY time he gos down. For all you know he could have came back the following year and played 82 games he certainly had the suitors willing to try. GP didnt have trouble staying healthy, he just sucked.


Havent you seen my Ostertag thread? The guy eliminated Shaq, Dream, AND D-Rob in the same post season. Now thats a playoff run, he only fell to the mighty Longley

Chronz, your points are often hard to follow, as they often make no sense.

So Kobe AND Shaq were swarmed, but Lakers couldn't find the open man.

Again Chronz, please give it up and try to observe the NBA objectively.

And, the question I will ask you is this.

With a healthy Horace Grant in the '96 ECF, does Orlando beat the Bulls. And I'd really like an unbiased, honest opinion. Can you provide me with one?

3mikee_
09-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Good points by Shaq but I don't know if he's either giving out some constructive criticism or just setting up some excuses for if/when DHoward potentially surpasses Shaq.

NYKNYGNYY
09-12-2011, 07:57 PM
well if dwight had a kobe in his prime...

kings2010
09-12-2011, 08:10 PM
You guys are sleeping on demarcus cousins in here dont you think?.....

Andrew32
09-12-2011, 09:07 PM
No, the bulls were destroying the Magics guards. Even though Shaq was his usual Dominant self throughout the series and I think the best overall player in the series his performances weren't enough to make up for his teammates.

llemon
09-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Good points by Shaq but I don't know if he's either giving out some constructive criticism or just setting up some excuses for if/when DHoward potentially surpasses Shaq.

Do you truly believe Dwight will surpass Shaq?

Honest answer, please.

Stack_NJNets
09-12-2011, 10:03 PM
Do you truly believe Dwight will surpass Shaq?

Honest answer, please.

No

llemon
09-12-2011, 10:18 PM
No

You ain't 3mikee

Chronz
09-13-2011, 12:09 AM
Chronz, your points are often hard to follow, as they often make no sense.
I dont see the confusion.


So Kobe AND Shaq were swarmed, but Lakers couldn't find the open man.
No, Shaq was given single coverage while Kobe was swarmed. They lacked the outlet option that Karl had served as.


Again Chronz, please give it up and try to observe the NBA objectively.
LOL I really dont know what more I can tell you other than there is nothing to give up. You have a differing definition of what constitutes having a certain core group of players for a playoff run. I dont consider losing Horace Grant for the series hes needed for the most to be a guy to be considered as being there.


And, the question I will ask you is this.

With a healthy Horace Grant in the '96 ECF, does Orlando beat the Bulls. And I'd really like an unbiased, honest opinion. Can you provide me with one?

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