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phlp_bj
09-11-2011, 10:39 AM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the playoff voting for the PSD NBA Redraft. Every year we basketball fans enjoy taking part in a PSD game called the NBA redraft where over 60 users participate. The point of the redraft is to draft the best team possible and the obvious goal is to be crowned champion by the NBA forum. You will notice that the team name do not represent current NBA teams. The reason why we avoided this is because we wanted to avoid a bias that exists with current team names. For example, a team that had the Chicago Bulls team name would probably experience a higher volume of votes than letís say the Memphis Grizzlies team simply because they have the larger fan base on PSD. As a result we got rid of that bias completely. Please take the time to review both teams, look at the depth chart and read the write ups to formalize your own opinion on which team would win a 7 game series. As far as injuries go, they will not be playing a factor in this Redraft though players that are continually hurt and have not had a healthy season in quite some time should be viewed as different players than what they once were (Yao, Oden, Roy etc). Thank you for voting and enjoy the match ups.

1) El Paso vs. 5) Orange County

El Paso Depth Chart:
PG: Rajon Rondo/Lou Williams/Jeff Teague/Brian Scalabrine
SG: Manu Ginoblli/Evan Turner/Brian Scalabrine
SF: Michael Beasley/James Posey/Brian Scalabrine
PF: Kevin Garnett/Jordan Hill/Brian Scalabrine
C: Ben Wallace/Nenad Krstic/Brian Scalabrine

Orange County Depth Chart:
PG: Stephen Curry/George Hill/Mario Chalmers
SG: Courtney Lee/George Hill/Corey Brewer
SF: Kevin Durant/Derrick Williams/Al Harrington
PF: Serge Ibaka/Nick Collison/Derrick Williams/D.J. White
C: DeMarcus Cousins/Timofey Mozgov/Nick Collison

Orange County Writeup:

Before we go into positional breakdowns letís look at some factors that I think will contribute to our success in this series. Pace our team is capable of playing in almost any setting, as we are a deep team. If we want to press the edge and run on them we can run with Curry Ė Hill Ė Durant Ė D. Williams Ė Ibaka. If we want to slow them down, play tough defense and let KD operate we can go with Curry/Chalmers Ė Brewer Ė Durant Ė Collison Ė Ibaka. This team does just honestly not have the personnel to match our different line ups. Our team as a whole also has little to no history of injuries our team is young, deep and healthy which should keep us fresh in the playoffs. Plus, OC has the best scorer in the league in Kevin Durant, while itís arguable that El Paso doesnít have a single ďsuperstarĒ on their team.


PG: Stephen Curry, George Hill, Mario Chalmers vs. Rajon Rondo, Lou Williams, Jeff Teague

I would first like to take some time to point out how ridiculous the notion is that Stephen Curry is a ball hog or must have the ball to be effective. Curry is a top 25 scorer in the league, but his assist percentage ranked better last year than noted ďpassersĒ like Luke Ridnour, Mike Conley, Kobe Bryant, Manu Ginobili, and Chauncey Billups. His usage percentage was also only 64th in the league, so letís not buy the BS that El Paso will probably throw out about Curry. This isnít Davidson, and heís not going to have to have the ball all of the time to be an effective player. That being said, weíll move on to the actual match up at PG. While Rondo is obviously a great defender, he is a zero impact scorer. The fact that Curry will not have to work hard to defend him means that heíll have more energy for his offensive game. Curry is a good enough player to give Rondo some trouble defensively. George Hill is a great combo guard for us, and our depth of Hill and Chalmers easily outweighs that of Lou Williams and Jeff Teague. Hill and Chalmers are both very talented defenders, and Hill is a nice scorer too. Even when Curry is off of the floor, we feel that we will have a great contributor at the PG position. El Paso canít really say the same.


SG: Courtney Lee, George Hill, Corey Brewer vs. Manu Ginobili, Evan Turner

Obviously Manu is a great player, but thereís one disadvantage to Manu: Heís an injury-prone player that canít play many minutes. Manu has never played more than 31.1 MPG in his career because of how fragile he is. That means this team will have to give Evan Turner significant minutes, and Turner did nothing last year to prove that he can handle big minutes. While Lee is nothing more than a solid defender, he certainly isnít bad defensively. He can play his role within the starting lineup though by shooting threes well (he was a top 21 three point shooter last year) and playing solid defense. We will bring in George Hill and Corey Brewer often at SG, and both of them will be able to help Lee contain Ginobili. Honestly, Ginobili in this matchup as the #1 option should be concerning for El Paso. He will have a tough time putting up his normal numbers against as great of a SG rotation as this.


SF: Kevin Durant, Derrick Williams, Al Harrington vs. Michael Beasley, James Posey

Durant will dominate this matchup. Beasley is a horrible wing defender, and Durant will absolutely have his way. Durant is the best scorer in the league, and will light this team up. Beasley is hardly a concern for us, because he wonít be able to put up the same numbers that he put up in Minnesota when he canít dominate the ball or the offense in general. Heís a good talent, but we would certainly take our top two scorers of Durant/Curry over Manu/Beasley any day. When Durant needs a breather, we can either bring in a young athletic freak in Derrick Williams or a proven veteran scorer in Al Harrington. Durant will obviously play major minutes, though, so we donít see either getting a bunch of time. Surely El Paso will try to tell you that Posey is a good defender and capable of slowing down KD, but that couldnít be further from the truth. Posey hasnít been an effective defender since his year in Boston in 2007-2008, so we urge you not to believe that crap.

PF: Serge Ibaka, Nick Collison, Derrick Williams, D.J. White vs. Kevin Garnett, Jordan Hill

Garnett is another guy like Manu who is good, but canít really be expected to play a ton of minutes. Heís a good player, but heís getting older and his offensive talent has declined. His defense is still very good, but Ibaka would be a very tough matchup for him. Ibaka is a very young and athletic player who would give KG fits offensively and defensively. KG doesnít have the explosion that he used to, and we believe that Ibaka would take advantage of him at least a few times per game. When Ibaka comes out, Nick Collison and Derrick Williams are also two good options for us. Collison is a very good defender in the frontcourt, and again, Williams is another very athletic option that could give KG trouble because of his age. Jordan Hill is another guy like Evan Turner that we donít believe has proven himself worthy of significant playing time on a good team.


C: DeMarcus Cousins, Timofey Mozgov, Nick Collison vs. Ben Wallace, Nenad Krstic

This is another huge matchup win for the Summers. Cousins is an amazing athlete and scorer at center, while Ben Wallace is on the major downside of his career and isnít a viable starter in the least bit. Heís only going to be able to play 25 MPG at the max, meaning youíre going to have to get another 20-ish out of a marginal talent in Nenad Krstic. Because they have no offensive threat whatsoever at center, Cousinsí potential liability on defense is a non-factor in this game. Iím sure Cousins will be bashed for his inefficiency, but itís hard to be efficient on a team where youíre one of only two players who can put the ball in the hoop, and you donít have a distributor running your offense either. Both of these things are corrected with our team. We have a legitimate 7-footer in Mozgov that can come off the bench and play some minutes, as well as Nick Collison, although Collison will see most of his minutes at PF.


El Paso will greatly struggle with the athleticism and scoring ability of this team. This team would have been great several years ago, but is too old to win anything now. Think the Spurs this year. The youth and depth of this Orange County team is simply too great for the very, very weak bench of El Paso. I think Orange County would win this series fairly easily.

El Paso didn't send in a writeup

Sadds The Gr8
09-11-2011, 10:40 AM
this is really close i'm gonna have to think about this...

Mr. Baller
09-11-2011, 10:45 AM
The OC for me

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-11-2011, 10:46 AM
easily el paso.

Hawkize31
09-11-2011, 10:46 AM
Brian Scalabrine might get minutes at every position according El Paso's lineup. How could that team lose?

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 10:52 AM
aA WRITEUP IS COMING SOON! SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES ATM

edit here is part 1
dont forget the color coding and quotes!!!!

El Paso vs. Orange County

Hi I’m sportfan. Good Luck to ebbs and homey.

OC has some very talented players. Factor in overall talent and potential, they might be the number uno team in the league. However, it’s all talent. What they have, is a bunch of great players thrown together. What El Paso has……is a CHAMPIONHIP BUILT TEAM!!! A system that pretty much fits for everyone, with the right players inside it. Positional matchups can’t describe how much better Michael Beasley will be with Rajon passing him the ball, or the help defense of Manu, Posey and KG. Positional matchups can’t describe how important the leadership from guys like KG, Wallace and Manu. It’s those intangibles that will help El Paso prevail. We have a perfect blend of veterans with young fresh legs.
Small Forward- Michael Beasley vs Kevin Durant
IM PUTTING THIS MATCHUP FIRST SO EVERYONE READS IT
ATTENTION EVERYONE! THE BEST BEST BEST BEST BEST MOD EVERRRRRRRR ON PSD HAS SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT TO SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I was at the game when he played at Dyckman. Beasley actually played very good D on him (Durant) for a streetball game. Durant only had 20 something and Beasley's team won
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18903239&postcount=735
Yea I know. Durant is one of the best scorers in the league and omgz he iz guunaaaaa DESTROYYYY BIZZZZLIIIIYYYY! Just saying, Beasley had a damn good game himself against Durant this year putting up 30 points and 9 boards and 7 assists to go with it. Not to mention, Beasley has had the help defense of the Minnesota Timberwolves, one of the worst defenses in the league. Now, he’s paired with the help of Rondo, Ginoblli, KG, Big Ben, Hill, Posey etc. Beasley wont contain Durant, but others around him can. Westbrook and Durant has some noticeable issues in the playoffs, with Westbrook trying to do too much with the ball. Curry is an even bigger ball hog, and less of a playmaker than Westbrook. Durant needs the ball in his hands, but Curry is a shoot first 2 guard playing the point, this will not end well. Durant is a good defender, but Beasley is a pretty good scorer especially with Rondo playing off the ball with him. Beasley can carry the scoring load of Manu as shown in that game where he scored 30/9/7. Unlike most SF’s, Beasley has the size and speed that matches Durant’s. Expect Posey to get a lot of playing time who has a nose for shutting down great scorers. Clearly Durant is the better player but Beasley and Posey can hold their ground.

Point Guard-Rajon Rondo vs Stephen Curry
Curry is one helluva player, but Rondo takes this with ease. The playoffs under pressure is Rondo’s comfort zone. It’s when he plays his best basketball. Rondo could very well play just like he did in that Chicago series, he has a very similar matchup in Curry like Rose. He’s playing a young defensive troubled combo guard, one that Rondo will easily expose. He won’t all of a sudden start hitting no look 3’s or anything, but Rondo CAN drive to the hoop, and he’ll have no problem with that if all he needs to get through is Curry, Ibaka, and Cousins lol. For what it’s worth, Rondo shot better from 16-23 foot range than Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade! Defense might have been slacking, but it’s not like Curry will actually play defense. Rondo’s ball handling skills are top notch, and with options to go to like Manu, Beasley, and KG, Rondo will have no problem distributing the ball. On the other side, while Curry is a prolific scorer, Rondo is probably the best defensive point in the league and will contain Curry to 15-20 points with inefficiency. Draftexpress made a really interesting tweet back in late March regarding Curry’s play recently

DraftExpress: Really disappointing to see what Stephen Curry is evolving into. No playmaking, shoots ball every time he touches it, zero effort on defense. 2011-03-04 09:04:01From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz1XaV3ay00
So yea, ADVANTAGE EL PASO

Ebbs
09-11-2011, 11:18 AM
Lollll at dyckmans in your write up

Corey
09-11-2011, 11:43 AM
Heavily leaning el paso but I want to hear some debate first. Sway me ebbs!

KnicksorBust
09-11-2011, 11:44 AM
I want to give SF a chance to post the rest of his writeup before voting.

LakersIn5
09-11-2011, 11:45 AM
pretty even pretty much a toss up but i went with OC

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 11:50 AM
pretty even pretty much a toss up but i went with OC
so its even, and you decide to go with the younger, inexperienced team. great idea.



laptop is in repair mode, hopefully up in 2-3 hours :pray:

jrice9
09-11-2011, 11:54 AM
I like the way OC is built in comparison to EP

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 12:03 PM
I like the way OC is built in comparison to EP
built in what aspect? That they have a center who averages 3 and a half turnovers a game and probably gets fouled out? A shoot first point guard? Lack of veteran leadership?

Baller1
09-11-2011, 12:08 PM
The OC has a go-to superstar, strong defense in the paint, and some very nice depth. OC for me.

Sadds The Gr8
09-11-2011, 12:09 PM
OC is all shooting and no slashing, that offense can go flat as hell if their shots are off, but EP has all slashing and no shooters they can have trouble scoring as well. it's close but i'll take EP and their experience

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 12:28 PM
The OC has a go-to superstar, strong defense in the paint, and some very nice depth. OC for me.
strong defense in the paint? lolwhat. and i dont?

in other words, OC has my 2 favorite players, so they win.

Avenged
09-11-2011, 12:49 PM
All these match-ups are close!

Where is El Paso generating their offense though? I get Manu is a really good player but they need more weapons. I'll think about this a little more.

:shrug:

LakersIn5
09-11-2011, 12:58 PM
so its even, and you decide to go with the younger, inexperienced team. great idea.



laptop is in repair mode, hopefully up in 2-3 hours :pray:

yeah because its pretty much even i expect the series to reach 7 games and by that time IN MY OPINION kg,manu and ben would already be so tired and weary that younger guys like demarcus,ibaka and lee would be able to somehow outplay them more. plus since KD is still young and the best player of the series i think he would manage to lead his team to a game 7 victory against alot of tired old vets. thats all.

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 12:59 PM
^i would also have homefield advantage in that game 7, and those younger guys also will make a lot of stupid mistakes against high IQ vets. Once again, how many rings do players on OC have? 1, Corey Brewer who didn't even play in the finals. EL Paso has 7. In the closing moments, my team would come through/


All these match-ups are close!

Where is El Paso generating their offense though? I get Manu is a really good player but they need more weapons. I'll think about this a little more.

:shrug:
It won't be a team that scores 100 every night, but I do have options. Rondo thrives in the playoffs, averages 16/7/10 past 3 seasons in crunch time. He can't shoot, but with Curry manning up on him, and just Ibaka and Cousins in the post, Rondo can take it to the hoop, especially if they try laying off him.

Garnett still has a great mid range jumper, and Ibaka isn't a great man on man defender, so KG could have a really nice series. He's still very efficient, just doesn't get the ball as much.

And Beasley will put up 20 with a great passer playing with him. His shot selection will be loads better

Ovratd1up
09-11-2011, 01:20 PM
Still not sure so I'll vote as a GM.

Ebbs
09-11-2011, 02:05 PM
I'm off work in 3 hours. I will address some stuff than

ShakeN'Bake
09-11-2011, 02:10 PM
I like el paso here, even though scal is playing every where.

Mile High Champ
09-11-2011, 02:33 PM
This really should not be tha close. As I elluded to in my own write up, OC has many defensive quetsion marks and the lack of playoff experience would really hurt them against a veteran led El Paso squad.

Corey
09-11-2011, 03:05 PM
Ended up voting for El Paso for the same reason MHC said.

I love El Paso's front court defense. I dont think Cousins or Ibaka could really be a factor on offense with Garnett and Wallace.

Also, Curry is looking to be OC's second option on offense. I think Rondo could do a good job containing him over a series.

In their last 3 matchups, Beasley has scored over 20 each time on Durant, so I'm pretty confident that he would be able to produce over a series as well.

Lee is a nice complimentary piece, but he is limited to catch-and-shoot on offense, and Manu hasn't struggled against him in the past.

Durant is obviously a stud, but I dont think he can carry this team past El Paso.

phlp_bj
09-11-2011, 04:46 PM
Still not sure so I'll vote as a GM.

Why did you vote as a GM?

KnicksorBust
09-11-2011, 06:36 PM
SF was that your whole writeup?

topdog
09-11-2011, 07:09 PM
Orange County only has to defend 3 guys. Play off of Rondo and Beasley because Rondo doesn't have a shot and Beasley will take low percentage shots just inside the arch. In a 7 game series, they will bring their team down.

topdog
09-11-2011, 07:13 PM
Ended up voting for El Paso for the same reason MHC said.

I love El Paso's front court defense. I dont think Cousins or Ibaka could really be a factor on offense with Garnett and Wallace.

Also, Curry is looking to be OC's second option on offense. I think Rondo could do a good job containing him over a series.

In their last 3 matchups, Beasley has scored over 20 each time on Durant, so I'm pretty confident that he would be able to produce over a series as well.

Lee is a nice complimentary piece, but he is limited to catch-and-shoot on offense, and Manu hasn't struggled against him in the past.

Durant is obviously a stud, but I dont think he can carry this team past El Paso.

If Curry gets shut down, you bring in Hill.

Williams will be a legitimate scoring threat as well and can collapse the defense for some open shots.

Garnett and Wallace are both aging and are tech prone in testy games. Plus, their collective offense is severely in decline. Pair that with the non-shooting Rondo and the shot-happy Beasley and you've got problems.

Havoc Wreaker
09-11-2011, 07:25 PM
1-5 is definitely closer than the other match-ups. However, El Paso still takes this

VCaintdead17
09-11-2011, 07:51 PM
I got El Paso I suppose

Corey
09-11-2011, 07:55 PM
If Curry gets shut down, you bring in Hill.

Williams will be a legitimate scoring threat as well and can collapse the defense for some open shots.

Garnett and Wallace are both aging and are tech prone in testy games. Plus, their collective offense is severely in decline. Pair that with the non-shooting Rondo and the shot-happy Beasley and you've got problems.

Go ahead and bring in Hill. I'm confident that Rondo could stop him as well.

Derrick Williams is going to hit open shots and collapse the defense? Huh. So you're basing this off one good year in college? Interesting.

Garnett was the best defensive PF last year. He also shot 53% from the field last season, a percentage that bested any of his season percentages from his time in Minny. He's taking less shots, that doesn't mean his offense is rapidly declining. His per 36 numbers are near identical to career averages give or take 2 points.

Rondo averages 14 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds in the playoffs. He doesn't have to shoot jumpers to score, and Curry is putrid on defense.

Beas shoots a lot, so what? He's a scorer.

Really not understanding ANY of your attempted argument.

Ebbs
09-11-2011, 08:24 PM
Iblocka vs. KG in the last 2 meetigns:

KG: 12 PPG, .375 FG%, 5 RPG,
Ibaka: 10.5 PPG, 0.444 FG%, 9 RPG,

And in this game KG will have aged another year. Basically I would expect Ibaka to outplay KG.

I also think just note that they don't have a ton of scoring behind Manu. Manu and KG are both going to be a year older with past injury problems going against a young fast paced team in the semis.

Also how is Ben Wallace going to do anything to Cousins? Big ben a rotational player at best he will be a year older in this game. Cousins is younger, stronger, bigger (height and weight)... It be ugly.

Not to mention since Ben will do dick all offensively we can move Cous over to help cover the hole or double KG. Not like KG needs to be double teamed.

There is no way they could come close to matching are scoring or efficiency. Look at Durant vs Manu vastly better scorer. Look at Curry vs. Beasley were talking about one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA vs. One of the worst.

We are way deeper. Jill and Chalmers will keep Rondo constanlty busy even when Curry rests. We have solid depth in our frontcourt and in reality our guys would play more minutes than their starters anyway.

Corey
09-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Iblocka vs. KG in the last 2 meetigns:

KG: 12 PPG, .375 FG%, 5 RPG,
Ibaka: 10.5 PPG, 0.444 FG%, 9 RPG,
1) you're either bad at math or skewing the numbers on purpose.
In their last two matchups, Garnett averaged 13 points, 40% from the field.

2) You're not listing the two matchups before that where Garnett averaged 20.5 points, 8.5 rebs, on 80% shooting.

3) Career averages in 4 games:
Garnett: 16 points, 7 rebounds, 63% from the field
Ibaka: 7 points, 6 rebounds, 48% from the field.

4) They've played 4 career games against each other, so you're basing an argument off of a ridiculously small sample size, which doesn't really hold any credibility.



And in this game KG will have aged another year. Basically I would expect Ibaka to outplay KG.
He just had one of the five best defensive seasons of his career, so..?

I also think just note that they don't have a ton of scoring behind Manu. Manu and KG are both going to be a year older with past injury problems going against a young fast paced team in the semis.
Both are also going to be another year REMOVED from their big injury. Works both ways.


Also how is Ben Wallace going to do anything to Cousins? Big ben a rotational player at best he will be a year older in this game. Cousins is younger, stronger, bigger (height and weight)... It be ugly.
What does being bigger have to do with anything? Ben Wallace was one of the best defensive centers in the league when he was with the Pistons, his height didn't stop him from being great then, did it?

And where are you getting 'stronger' from? That seems awfully opinionated with no actual evidence to back it up.

They played each other once, and Cousins was 3/8 from the field for 6 points, and also turned the ball over 6 times. That's impressive.

Not to mention since Ben will do dick all offensively we can move Cous over to help cover the hole or double KG. Not like KG needs to be double teamed.
Wallace was 2/2 from the field against Cousins, and out rebounded him, and last I checked they aren't asking Wallace to score. It's not his role, just like it wasn't Perkins' role to score for the Celtics.


There is no way they could come close to matching are scoring or efficiency. Look at Durant vs Manu vastly better scorer. Look at Curry vs. Beasley were talking about one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA vs. One of the worst.

Comparing players that play at different positions? Why would you look at those two players?

We are way deeper. Jill and Chalmers will keep Rondo constanlty busy even when Curry rests.
How do you figure? They've both done jack **** against Rondo in their careers.

Hill shoots 36% career against Rondo. Chalmers shoots 35.5% career against Rondo. That's going to keep him busy?

On the flip side, Rondo averages 13 points on 47% shooting against Hill, and 13 points on 53% shooting against Chalmers, so....?


We have solid depth in our frontcourt and in reality our guys would play more minutes than their starters anyway.
Your front court depth is slightly better, but nothing that's going to sway the series. Collison is a solid defender that is overhyped because he made like 2 good plays on Dirk. Wahooo. At the end of the day, Collison still cant score, and is just a defender.

Mozgov has a nice little fan following, but he's done jack in the NBA. Career 3.5 points on 47% shooting? Even when adjusted to a per 36 scale, not too impressive.

Kristic has at least been a really solid starter in his career, and Jordan Hill's numbers are nearly identical (and slightly better) than Mozzy, so..?

Sportfan
09-11-2011, 10:07 PM
Orange County only has to defend 3 guys. Play off of Rondo and Beasley because Rondo doesn't have a shot and Beasley will take low percentage shots just inside the arch. In a 7 game series, they will bring their team down.
lol. I would love for OC to just leave both Rondo and Beasley open. Rondo can drive to the lane ALL DAY LONG,and Beasley can knock down 30 which would be nice.
Seriously, I love how you call out Beasley's inefficiency, but fail to say anything about Cousins or OC's shot happy PG. RONDO DIRECTS THE BALL. HE CONTROLS THE OFFENSE. BEASLEY WILL GET THE BALL FROM RONDO WHEN HE GETS A GOOD LOOK. BEASLEY HAS HAD GOOD GAMES ON DURANT.
what is so hard to understand?

Iblocka vs. KG in the last 2 meetigns:

KG: 12 PPG, .375 FG%, 5 RPG,
Ibaka: 10.5 PPG, 0.444 FG%, 9 RPG,

And in this game KG will have aged another year. Basically I would expect Ibaka to outplay KG.

I also think just note that they don't have a ton of scoring behind Manu. Manu and KG are both going to be a year older with past injury problems going against a young fast paced team in the semis.

Also how is Ben Wallace going to do anything to Cousins? Big ben a rotational player at best he will be a year older in this game. Cousins is younger, stronger, bigger (height and weight)... It be ugly.

Not to mention since Ben will do dick all offensively we can move Cous over to help cover the hole or double KG. Not like KG needs to be double teamed.

There is no way they could come close to matching are scoring or efficiency. Look at Durant vs Manu vastly better scorer. Look at Curry vs. Beasley were talking about one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA vs. One of the worst.

We are way deeper. Jill and Chalmers will keep Rondo constanlty busy even when Curry rests. We have solid depth in our frontcourt and in reality our guys would play more minutes than their starters anyway.
OH MAN.....GUYS I CANT BELIEVE IT!?!?! Ibaka played better than Garnett in 2 GAMES! 2 GAMES! How can this be?

KG had 20/9, with 80% shooting the first 2 times they played. Did you know that 1 time, Posey played the thunder this year, Durant had 34% shooting? See I can play this sample size game too :)
Oh and btw, both those games were from November, when Green was the PF and Ibaka starting at Center. Nice try though.
Sorry, my team isn't built like the warriors where it's all about SCORE SCORE SCORE! I have the best defense in the league, and with the older guys I'll be playing at a slow tempo, a tempo which KG, Manu, and Rondo all play in right now. I don't need a ton of points but I do have options in Beasley, Lou WIll and even Rondo.

Cousins is also, younger, half ******** and inexperienced. People love ripping Blatche on offense, how about Cousins? Fouled out 10 times this year, top 10 in turnovers as a freaking center in just 28 minutes. If he played 36, he'd be leading the league in turnovers. His TS% is turrible. By all means give him the ball, and with an above average defender in Big Ben with help D from KG Cousins will just hurt your team, just like he made his team worse IRL. Maybe if you had a playmaking PG, we could believe Cousins shot selection would improve, but Curry isn't going to make that happen. If only Cous had Rondo :)

If you really really wanna factor in size, well I'm bigger than you at the 2, 3, and 4. so yea i win again

I didn't know I was playing Ben all 48 minutes. Krstic can come off the bench and put in some points, he has an offensive post game which can't be said for pretty much every other backup center in the league. Or I can play small with KG at center, Beasley at PF if i need to play either posey or lou will. Ben's usage % was 8. He doesn't even touch the ball, so at least he won't be a liability on O like Cousins is.

Yea, you have more offensive firepower than me. I also have the best defense in the league, while your D is below average. At the end of the day, defense wins championships. Of the top 7 highest scoring offenses in the league last year, 3 of them didn't make the playoffs (Rockets, Suns, Warriors) another 3 were first round exits (Nuggets, Spurs, Knicks). The top 5 defenses in the league? The Celtics, Bulls, Heat, Magic, and Lakers. The top 4 seeds of the east,and #2 in west. I'll take my offense, over a slowed down Curry, Durant, Ibaka, etc.


Who the hell is Jill? lol, Chalmers will do work but Lou Will and Jeff Teague can't? Lou Willl is a high volume scorer off the bench, (14 in 23 min), and Teague played extremely well on D Rose in the playoffs. Until he plays a game on the court, D-Will is nothing more than a scrub to me.


kob, my laptop bugged out, and cant get rid of the stupid blue screen of death, and that was the only part i saved so yea i guess thats my whole writeup at least for now lol.


and Corey is God.

topdog
09-11-2011, 10:28 PM
Go ahead and bring in Hill. I'm confident that Rondo could stop him as well.

Derrick Williams is going to hit open shots and collapse the defense? Huh. So you're basing this off one good year in college? Interesting.

Garnett was the best defensive PF last year. He also shot 53% from the field last season, a percentage that bested any of his season percentages from his time in Minny. He's taking less shots, that doesn't mean his offense is rapidly declining. His per 36 numbers are near identical to career averages give or take 2 points.

Rondo averages 14 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds in the playoffs. He doesn't have to shoot jumpers to score, and Curry is putrid on defense.

Beas shoots a lot, so what? He's a scorer.

Really not understanding ANY of your attempted argument.

Did you really think I was saying you don't even look at Rondo and Beasley? Don't be silly. I'm talking about turning Rondo into a jumpshooter and leaving Beasley to jack up shots on the perimeter by staying at home near the rim to offer double teams on... Kg and Manu.

Beasley is a "scorer" by default because it is the only thing he regularly tries to do (as opposed to setting up teammates or playing defense). Okay, he's played good defense on Durant in one game so now he's going to be a stalwart for 7 games? OKC trampled Beasley and Minny last year on several occasions.

Wallace can only score on putbacks and KG has lost his athleticism meaning against Ibaka he'll be shooting jumpers and will be less of an impact player on the boards.

Corey
09-11-2011, 11:21 PM
I'm talking about turning Rondo into a jumpshooter
That's been the playbook on Rondo since he's gotten in the league. Still isn't working.

and leaving Beasley to jack up shots on the perimeter
You're going to allow Beasley to shoot wide open jumpers? Interesting strategy.

OKC trampled Beasley and Minny last year on several occasions.
Of course they did, OKC was a much better team. Beasley averaged a hair over 25PPG in their last 3 matchups though, so I wouldn't call that getting trampled.

Wallace can only score on putbacks
So what? They aren't asking him to score. They're asking him to play defense.

KG has lost his athleticism meaning against Ibaka he'll be shooting jumpers and will be less of an impact player on the boards.
He lost his athleticism, but put up arguably his best defensive season last year? That doesn't correlate.

LakersIn5
09-11-2011, 11:43 PM
1) you're either bad at math or skewing the numbers on purpose.
In their last two matchups, Garnett averaged 13 points, 40% from the field.

2) You're not listing the two matchups before that where Garnett averaged 20.5 points, 8.5 rebs, on 80% shooting.

3) Career averages in 4 games:
Garnett: 16 points, 7 rebounds, 63% from the field
Ibaka: 7 points, 6 rebounds, 48% from the field.

4) They've played 4 career games against each other, so you're basing an argument off of a ridiculously small sample size, which doesn't really hold any credibility.



why would he include the games from like 2 years ago? KG is weaker now compared to 2 years ago and ibaka is better compared to 2 years ago. and the redraft i think assumes the talent of the players from the latest season which is last season thus OC gm posting only the 2 matchups last season.

Eagles4Lyfe
09-12-2011, 12:29 AM
Words can't describe the ownage that Corey and SF just did together.

Corey
09-12-2011, 12:37 AM
why would he include the games from like 2 years ago? KG is weaker now compared to 2 years ago and ibaka is better compared to 2 years ago. and the redraft i think assumes the talent of the players from the latest season which is last season thus OC gm posting only the 2 matchups last season.
Because they've played 4 games against each other total, and using two games as a gauge as to how a player is going to perform against another is borderline pointless?

And if you want to talk about JUST last season, fine. Garnett posted a higher shooter percentage last year than he did in any year he was with Minnesota. He also had arguably his best individual defensive year.

I'm fine going with JUST last year. Garnett was a stud. Everyone looks at points per game. Sweet. He took less shots than he did when he was in his prime, that typically happens when you go from a ****** team to a good one.

Also, KG's WS/48 last year? 0.194. Higher than Ibaka's 0.164. Garnett also had a much higher usage percentage, so I don't know where the "ibaka will outperform KG" crap is coming from. KG gets the ball more, scores more, and plays better defense. He also rebounds better. Where's the 'outproducing' coming from?

McJoe
09-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I like El Paso. No one to distribute the ball for OC, Durant and Curry are gonna score but no one else is...

Ebbs
09-12-2011, 10:21 AM
Cousins, Ibaka, Hill? Derrick Williams? I feel they can all score.

Also I don't have a chance to reply to everythign right now COrey but for your initial comment I looked at b-ball reference those are the stats. And yes I only used the 2 games where they played 30 minutes last year. Why would I include any other games from a year agon when Ibaka was playign liek 15 minutes?

Ebbs
09-12-2011, 10:45 AM
From a voter standpoint. Lee is decent but in voting doesnt possess much value.
Westbrook/Durant took a ton of heat from the postseason, Curry is even more ball demanding than Westbrook.

that being said, Orange County scares me more than any other team

El Paso GM

phlp_bj
09-12-2011, 01:03 PM
bump

Corey
09-12-2011, 03:01 PM
Cousins, Ibaka, Hill? Derrick Williams? I feel they can all score.

How do you figure? Williams is a rookie, and you're assuming he's going to be able to come in and score consistently with absolutely no experience in the playoffs?

Ibaka and Cousins don't light it up on a regular basis. Why would they suddenly start scoring more?

Ibaka averages 9 points in 27 minutes. He's going to outproduce that against the best defensive PF in the game?

Cousins is going to suddenly shoot up to be more than a 14 ppg player against a solid defensive center that allows opponents to shoot 45% in post up situations?

I'm not seeing it.

Sportfan
09-12-2011, 07:23 PM
Did you really think I was saying you don't even look at Rondo and Beasley? Don't be silly. I'm talking about turning Rondo into a jumpshooter and leaving Beasley to jack up shots on the perimeter by staying at home near the rim to offer double teams on... Kg and Manu.

Beasley is a "scorer" by default because it is the only thing he regularly tries to do (as opposed to setting up teammates or playing defense). Okay, he's played good defense on Durant in one game so now he's going to be a stalwart for 7 games? OKC trampled Beasley and Minny last year on several occasions.

Wallace can only score on putbacks and KG has lost his athleticism meaning against Ibaka he'll be shooting jumpers and will be less of an impact player on the boards.
Uh, yes by"defend 3 guys" it's assumed you leave the other 2 wide open. You even said play off Rondo. Just saying, he shot better from 16-23 range than Rose, Kobe and Wade. With Curry defending him and Cousins in the post, KG can set up picks and Rondo will drive to the hoop. Rondo always finds ways to score in the playoffs. Beasley's inefficiency's are because people PLAY DEFENSE on him, especially on a ****** MIN team. He's not even that big of a chucker, 515 TS% and 37% from 3. If you wanna leave him open, he'll have a 50 point game with ease. He's in the nba, a ****ing #2 pick I THINK he knows how to hit a wide open jumper.
Why would I need him to do either of those things with Rondo at the point and Rondo/Manu/Posey/KG/Big Ben on D? All I need him to do is score which he can do. He's shown to contain Durant in the past, of course Durant will still score close to 30, but he'll be taking a ton of attempts and everyone else has to deal with a plus defender.

If Wallace can even give me a bucket on a putback i will be pleased, i expect him to score no more than 10 total points in the series tbh. How has KG lost his athleticism? He looked his best last year, ever since that injury. And playoff IQ>>athletiscm every time. How many rings did Carter, T-Mac, Lebron, Iverson, Gerald Wallace, J-Smoove, Dwight and Iggy, get from that "athletiscm" How about Travis Outlaw, Gerald Green, Nate Robinson Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, and the rest of those "all athletiscm" scrubs?


Cousins, Ibaka, Hill? Derrick Williams? I feel they can all score.

Also I don't have a chance to reply to everythign right now COrey but for your initial comment I looked at b-ball reference those are the stats. And yes I only used the 2 games where they played 30 minutes last year. Why would I include any other games from a year agon when Ibaka was playign liek 15 minutes?
Wallace, KG, Rondo, and Posey respectively all have something to say about that.

And lol at calling Cousins or Williams a scoring option,.

still don't have time to respond i see?

El Paso GM

very classy move ebbs, getting desperate eh? way to use a compliment to you, against me.

also, you have 2 scrub votes so I'm up 6.

Ebbs
09-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Lol how is that dirty or some ****?

Why wouldn't I use it I don't see how it's classless?

phlp_bj
09-13-2011, 01:55 AM
bumppppp

PocketKings
09-13-2011, 03:10 AM
This is a very interesting match-up due to the fact that El Paso has savvy veterans with championship experience in KG and Manu in their starting line-up while OC is a lot of youth and explosiveness. Outside of Dwight there isn't a player that impacts the game quite like KG does and you add in the best PG defender (yes I said it) in Rondo and Mr. GINOBILIIIIIIIIIII. I think the one piece I really don't like in this starting unit is Beasley but in the same sense he's needed for scoring because with him out, this team isn't scoring very many points, but the flip to that is he's not very efficient although I think on this team with Manu and Rondo he'll be more efficient. Big Ben is a bit worrisome too. OC is intriguing cause I think what would hurt them in a series with savvy veterans helps them in this particular match-up because there going to score a lot because I just don't believe the El Paso is going to stop Durant or even slow him down much. I also see El Paso struggling to score in this series due to Beasley/Manu are going to be their main "scorers". I give the slight edge to OC because I think they'll also try to attack and run as much as possible to tire out all those old folk on El Paso as well.

*Just my thinking/blabbering out loud.

Sportfan
09-13-2011, 11:17 AM
Victory!

Ebbs
09-13-2011, 12:17 PM
Didn't factor PK's vote = 6