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View Full Version : Why are the Championship teams in this era not considered tainted?



Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 08:02 AM
But overall records are?

I am sure you could find a steroid user on every championship team. Just a few names. A-Rod, Manny, Ortiz, Pettitte.

Towelie
09-10-2011, 09:07 AM
Cause when's the last time you heard "The whole 2004 Red Sox Team found using steroids" Baseball's a team sport, thats the obvious answer.

mttwlsn16
09-10-2011, 09:52 AM
lol

VenezuelanMet
09-10-2011, 10:03 AM
Because people are dumb. They just like to pile on individuals they already hate. No way they're going to point fingers to beloved teams.

Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod they were already considered douches with or without steroids. If someone like Jeter or Pujols were related to roids they would be defended, despite people saying now that it would break their hearts, etc.

"Ace"ves
09-10-2011, 11:12 AM
Cause we don't know when PEDs started.... who knows how far back teams were using. Besides, its only "tainted" cause we choose to make PEDs "tainted".

Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Cause we don't know when PEDs started.... who knows how far back teams were using. Besides, its only "tainted" cause we choose to make PEDs "tainted".

So you condone PED use?

Belmonts
09-10-2011, 11:34 AM
So you condone PED use?

Sure. Since no type of drugs can give you talent.

Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 11:35 AM
Sure. Since no type of drugs can give you talent.

No, but they can enhance it.

F*(&"Next Year"
09-10-2011, 11:37 AM
:facepalm:

Belmonts
09-10-2011, 11:43 AM
No, but they can enhance it.

lol.

Bo Sox Fan
09-10-2011, 11:58 AM
This thread would have been relevant in the early 2000's when every team was connected with PED'S, but 2011...

Pointless

Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 12:00 PM
This thread would have been relavent in the early 2000's when every team was connected with PED'S, but 2011...

Pointless

I named players that were on teams in 2004, 2007, and 2009.

Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Also, they don't test for HGH.

Bo Sox Fan
09-10-2011, 12:11 PM
Again, all 30 teams were connected with PED'S/HGH, and there eventually could only be 1 World Series Champion. So let's rag on the Championship teams some more and let the loser teams that were also on PED'S/HGH be forgotten because they didn't win?

Close thread.

misterd
09-10-2011, 12:14 PM
Cause when's the last time you heard "The whole 2004 Red Sox Team found using steroids" Baseball's a team sport, thats the obvious answer.

Steroids give individual players an edge over other players, allowing them to make a team or stay healthy or prolong a career. That's why I consider the use unfair.

However, use was so rampant that it was likely present on all teams, and it is impossible to say that one team benefitted more than another without having a good idea which players were using and how many were on each team.

Basically, ignorance is bliss.

Ecko72jc
09-10-2011, 12:15 PM
Again, all 30 teams were connected with PED'S/HGH, and there eventually could only be 1 World Series Champion. So let's rag on the Championship teams some more and let the loser teams that were also on PED'S/HGH be forgotten because they didn't win?

Close thread.

Your Logic

Nearly every player was connected to PED/HGH usage so when a much talented athlete uses it and breaks records their OK because everyone was using it.

"Ace"ves
09-10-2011, 01:29 PM
So you condone PED use?

Never said that, im just defining why they are "tainted". We choose to make them tainted, other sports turn a blind eye cause they choose to. Im just stating why we are considering it a taint.

And my main point was that we don't consider these teams "tainted" cause we don't know when PEDs started, we can't just make up a number for the sake of choosing what championships are tainted

es0terik
09-10-2011, 04:32 PM
But overall records are?

I am sure you could find a steroid user on every championship team. Just a few names. A-Rod, Manny, Ortiz, Pettitte.
Because when you talk about overall records, you're comparing one player in one generation (Bonds or Clemens) to players in every other generation (Ruth, Mays, Ryan, etc). You don't rag on teams because when one team had PEDs, every other team in the majors had PED users also, so it was almost like an even playing field. But when you talk about overall records, you're talking about Bonds who hit 700 homers with the use of PEDs and Aaron who hit 700 without em. That's why overall records are tainted, because overall records are connected to the entire history of baseball, and PEDs were not present in the entire history of baseball.

The teams that won in the PED era won against other teams that were also all using PEDs.

es0terik
09-10-2011, 04:34 PM
Your Logic

Nearly every player was connected to PED/HGH usage so when a much talented athlete uses it and breaks records their OK because everyone was using it.

What the hell? All players used PED/HGH? So Roger Maris used PEDs? When you break a record, you aren't doing it against other people in the same season as you, you're breaking historic records. Records are relative to the entire history of baseball, championships are the result of only a single season. You aren't looking at this with even an ounce of logic...

Belmonts
09-10-2011, 10:44 PM
This just further fuels the claim that "one man can carry a team" notion. Which we know is not the case. Unless multiple KEY players were doing the stuff, which only makes it more ahrder to prove.

Belmonts
09-10-2011, 10:46 PM
Your Logic

Nearly every player was connected to PED/HGH usage so when a much talented athlete uses it and breaks records their OK because everyone was using it.

Which is irrelevant really when a lot of old records previously held were set at times far different than todya.

"Ace"ves
09-10-2011, 10:47 PM
Because when you talk about overall records, you're comparing one player in one generation (Bonds or Clemens) to players in every other generation (Ruth, Mays, Ryan, etc). You don't rag on teams because when one team had PEDs, every other team in the majors had PED users also, so it was almost like an even playing field. But when you talk about overall records, you're talking about Bonds who hit 700 homers with the use of PEDs and Aaron who hit 700 without em. That's why overall records are tainted, because overall records are connected to the entire history of baseball, and PEDs were not present in the entire history of baseball.

The teams that won in the PED era won against other teams that were also all using PEDs.

I agree with the logic that you shouldn't punish an entire team's merit because of individual choices... especially when the use of PEDs wasn't frowned upon yet.

Are we going to tell Jeter that he has no rings cause he had teammates that used? im glad his career is dependent on other people's actions

But yeah, good point... i was driving more on the lack of timeline for PED use, so we cannot choose what championships were fair/not fair. But I like your point as well

es0terik
09-10-2011, 11:24 PM
I agree with the logic that you shouldn't punish an entire team's merit because of individual choices... especially when the use of PEDs wasn't frowned upon yet.

Are we going to tell Jeter that he has no rings cause he had teammates that used? im glad his career is dependent on other people's actions

But yeah, good point... i was driving more on the lack of timeline for PED use, so we cannot choose what championships were fair/not fair. But I like your point as well
Exactly. Look at the two biggest stars of the 2011 season, Jeter and Thome. Both of them have had huge and successful HOF careers, neither are suspected to have used, and in all fairness, neither should be related to PEDs at all.

SHOELESSJOE3
09-11-2011, 10:29 AM
How or why would we, could we put a taint on any championship team when we could be certain there had to be users on all the other teams......that finished behind the championship team.

IceMan360
09-11-2011, 05:32 PM
Again, all 30 teams were connected with PED'S/HGH, and there eventually could only be 1 World Series Champion. So let's rag on the Championship teams some more and let the loser teams that were also on PED'S/HGH be forgotten because they didn't win?

Close thread.

This!!!
:clap:

gcoll
09-11-2011, 09:44 PM
Because all the other teams they were competing against were tainted too.

And individual records are compared against players from other eras.

T 980
09-11-2011, 10:29 PM
Because if Tim Lincecum is guilty of using anything during the Playoffs, it's that he smokes a pound of weed before each game to calm his *** down.

Jack of Blades
09-11-2011, 11:15 PM
Cause when's the last time you heard "The whole 2004 Red Sox Team found using steroids" Baseball's a team sport, thats the obvious answer.

Baseball is far from a team sport.

Belmonts
09-12-2011, 12:24 AM
Baseball is far from a team sport.

Tell that to Barry Bonds :laugh2:

Pinstripe pride
09-12-2011, 08:52 AM
But overall records are?

I am sure you could find a steroid user on every championship team. Just a few names. A-Rod, Manny, Ortiz, Pettitte.

you know othe rteams besides the yankees and soxx won this era right?