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JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 11:50 AM
If every "Current Player" was in there prime, and you had a choice of whom to take what order would you draft them?

Here are the guys on the list I would imagine.

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
Dwyane Wade
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Tracy Mcgrady
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen

DoMeFavors
09-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
LeBron James

ManningToTyree
09-09-2011, 12:02 PM
If every "Current Player" was in there prime, and you had a choice of whom to take what order would you draft them?

Here are the guys on the list I would imagine.

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
Dwyane Wade
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Tracy Mcgrady
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen

1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Wade
5. Garnett
6. CP3
7. Howard
8. TMac
9. Nash
10. Griffin
11. Durant
12. Williams
13. Dirk
14.Rose
15. Kidd

That was really tough to do because of guys like Griffin, but I'm really high on him.

NYKalltheway
09-09-2011, 12:02 PM
as an expansion team draft you mean?

Probably Howard, Duncan, Garnett, Tmac and Kobe, in that order.

Howard #1 coz he's the only stud playing at center ;)

miller74
09-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Lebron or Duncan

sp1derm00
09-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Blake Griffin
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carter

I would choose Timmy first because the bigs in the league are currently pretty weak and he plays both PF and C. KG is also high on this list because he's much like Timmy except he plays PF/SF. Also, for the same reason TD/KG are so high, Dwight would be this high.

Durant and Griffin were hard to place because we haven't seen them in their primes yet.

Chris Paul over Steve Nash because CP3 is as good a playmaker, nearly equal scorer, but plays much better defense.

Tmac was very hard to place because his prime was so short, and we know this already. He's ranked where he is because I would rather have a lesser player with a longer lasting prime.

sp1derm00
09-09-2011, 12:08 PM
as an expansion team draft you mean?

Probably Howard, Duncan, Garnett, Tmac and Kobe, in that order.

Howard #1 coz he's the only stud playing at center ;)

TD could play PF or C and is as good a defender as Dwight. Also, TD in his prime was a better man defender than Dwight is.

avon_barksdale
09-09-2011, 12:09 PM
If every "Current Player" was in there prime, and you had a choice of whom to take what order would you draft them?

Here are the guys on the list I would imagine.

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
Dwyane Wade
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Tracy Mcgrady
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen

We aint seen drose n griffin in the prime yet. how can they be on it

NYKalltheway
09-09-2011, 12:13 PM
TD could play PF or C and is as good a defender as Dwight. Also, TD in his prime was a better man defender than Dwight is.

I know ;)
It's 50-50 for me there. Howard is more explosive while Duncan knows how to play more. Depends who you got next to them. But I'd rather use Duncan as PF instead of C, why use Duncan in his best years in his secondary position?

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 12:16 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Lebron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwayne Wade
7. Paul Pierce
8. Steve Nash
9. Tracy McGrady
10. Jason Kidd
11. Ray Allen
12. Dwight Howard
13. Chris Paul
14. Pau Gasol
15. Vince Carter
16. Carmelo Anthony
17. Deron Williams
18. Amare Stoudemire
19. Chris Bosh

I took out guys like Durant, Rose and Griffin, because we haven't seen the players they will become, and I'm not even sure we've seen their primes yet. I also didn't give nearly as much credit to guys still in their prime like Paul, Howard, Melo, Anthony, Wiliams, Stoudemire or Bosh who have not accomplished anything yet.

Wade and Pierce have been tremendous competitors, scorers and perimeter defenders on competitive teams for long stretches of time and both guys stepped up in the playoffs. I feel like Wade is a better player, though. And while they have never been great scorers, Nash and Kidd are both guaranteed first ballot hall of famers and were both easily the best point guards in the NBA for stretches in their career.

Some people might think I have McGrady a little high, but he had the best floor vision of any non PG that I've ever seen and was an unbelievable playmaker. If he and Yao could have put it together at the right time with a few other pieces in place, they would have been insanely good. And I don't think Carter is in the same discussion as his cousin in terms of ability.

And, yes, I gave the edge to Duncan over Kobe. I think Duncan did more with less over his career and had much more of an impact on defense, while still being every bit as competitive and clutch as Kobe in the postseason.

Pierzynski4Prez
09-09-2011, 12:21 PM
How do you even know the prime of griffin, rose, even durant?

llemon
09-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Is Shaq still considered active?

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Is Shaq still considered active?

No he retired.

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Is Shaq still considered active?

No, but it would have been interesting to include Shaq and Yao into the mix. I would have included them on that list and taken out some of the younger guys.

Avenged
09-09-2011, 12:43 PM
T-Mac ahead of Kobe? Good luck having him for a few seasons.

valade16
09-09-2011, 12:47 PM
No, but it would have been interesting to include Shaq and Yao into the mix. I would have included them on that list and taken out some of the younger guys.

I don't see how it would've made it interesting.

All it would've done is seperated those that hadn't seen shaq from 00-02 and those that had.

Because anybody who saw that Shaq is taking him every time.

Gators123
09-09-2011, 12:55 PM
Why did you list Christina Bosh and not Ben Wallace?

Are we forgetting how good a prime Big Ben was?

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 12:58 PM
I know ;)
It's 50-50 for me there. Howard is more explosive while Duncan knows how to play more. Depends who you got next to them. But I'd rather use Duncan as PF instead of C, why use Duncan in his best years in his secondary position?
This last season and 08-09 are the only seasons of Howard's that even deserve to sniff Duncan's jock. From 01-02 to 04-05 Duncan posted a WS/48 between .245 and .257 while an unbelievably consistent PER from 26.9-27.1. Howard has never posted a PER higher than 26.0 or a WS/48 higher than .236. And Duncan did that for four consecutive seasons. :drool:

And then there's that whole "Championship" thing. Duncan repeatedly stepped up in the playoffs and Finals, and while Howard has had some impressive postseason performances, his one Finals series was kind of a letdown (15, 15 and 4, shooting .488 from the floor and averaging 4 turnovers a night).

I like Dwight, but I'm nowhere near ready to put him in that Duncan, Kobe, Lebron category just yet. Hell, I'm not even ready to put him ahead of most of the players on the list.

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 01:00 PM
I don't see how it would've made it interesting.

All it would've done is seperated those that hadn't seen shaq from 00-02 and those that had.

Because anybody who saw that Shaq is taking him every time.

I dunno. I think you can make a case for Duncan or Kobe over Shaq. Do I think he belongs in the top 3 of that list? Most definitely. But Duncan is the better defensive player and can hit a mid range jump shot and Kobe is one of the most deadly, versatile scorers in NBA history. Also, there's the whole "hack a Shaq" thing, which I've always said feels like an asterisk next to his career.

Geargo Wallace
09-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Duncan
Garnett
James
Kidd
McGrady
Wade

Raps08-09 Champ
09-09-2011, 01:05 PM
T-Mac ahead of Kobe? Good luck having him for a few seasons.

Assuming he's healthy, T-Mac could match up to Kobe well IMO.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-09-2011, 01:06 PM
1. Duncan
2. Lebron
3. Garnett
4. Kobe
5. Mcgrady

Geargo Wallace
09-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Prime TMac> Prime Bryant

Hawkeye15
09-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Duncan
Kobe
LeBron
Garnett
T-Mac
Paul

the rest

NYKalltheway
09-09-2011, 01:10 PM
Assuming he's healthy, T-Mac could match up to Kobe well IMO.

me.. the question is PRIME, not CAREER. I'd take Tmac individually over Kobe without any regrets at that time. If he gets injured, then yes, it'd be a bad decision, but Tmac's prime/peak > Kobe's prime/peak, no one can seriously deny that

edit: damn when did you ninja edit that? ;p

Hawkeye15
09-09-2011, 01:11 PM
McGrady would honestly be my #2 guy if he hadn't started getting hurt. So many forget how dominating he was early in the decade. His peak seasons are better than any wing of the decade, but he just didn't hold up.

edit: LeBron is a wing, forgot. McGrady had the 2nd best peak of any wing in the decade

rapjuicer06
09-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Duncan
Garnett
McGrady
Bryant
James

Avenged
09-09-2011, 01:25 PM
Assuming he's healthy, T-Mac could match up to Kobe well IMO.

Definitely. But knowing now what we know, I wouldn't draft an injury prone player over a player who's prime has remained the most consistent out of all the star players the last decade.

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 01:37 PM
One guy I forgot to include was Grant Hill.

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 01:39 PM
Why did you list Christina Bosh and not Ben Wallace?

Are we forgetting how good a prime Big Ben was?

I don't think anyone is taking a guy who can't score at all as a franchise cornerstone unless it is Bill Russell.

Baller1
09-09-2011, 01:40 PM
Duncan
Garnett
Lebron
Kobe
T-Mac
Yao

It's a bit unfair to include guys like Rose and Durant, because we've yet to witness their primes. Both of those two could really shoot up the list.

Gators123
09-09-2011, 02:07 PM
I don't think anyone is taking a guy who can't score at all as a franchise cornerstone unless it is Bill Russell.

So if you were starting a franchise you would take Jennings or Monta over a prime Ben Wallace?

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 02:08 PM
So if you were starting a franchise you would take Jennings or Monta over a prime Ben Wallace?

Are those guys on the list? The list consist of guys who were MVP caliber players, perenial allstars that was the man on there teams for multiple years and led them to the postseason.

Lakersfan2483
09-09-2011, 02:16 PM
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
KG
Howard
Wade
Dirk
Durant
Kidd
CP3
Nash
T-Mac
Melo

Miltstar
09-09-2011, 02:27 PM
1. Garnett
2. Kobe
3. Duncan
4. Lebron
5. Howard
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Grant Hill
9. Nash
10. McGrady

clehmun
09-09-2011, 02:29 PM
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron

ManRam
09-09-2011, 02:43 PM
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Howard
7. Dirk
8. T-Mac
9. Paul
10. Pierce

Nash
Kidd
Ray
Gasol

The rest.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-09-2011, 03:14 PM
Are those guys on the list? The list consist of guys who were MVP caliber players, perenial allstars that was the man on there teams for multiple years and led them to the postseason.

Which one is Bosh?

Raps08-09 Champ
09-09-2011, 03:15 PM
They should make a video game where they take the 300 best players of the last decade in their prime and make like random teams.

30 teams with 10 players each.

VCaintdead17
09-09-2011, 03:18 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Lebron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwayne Wade
7. Paul Pierce
8. Steve Nash
9. Tracy McGrady
10. Jason Kidd
11. Ray Allen
12. Dwight Howard
13. Chris Paul
14. Pau Gasol
15. Vince Carter
16. Carmelo Anthony
17. Deron Williams
18. Amare Stoudemire
19. Chris Bosh

I took out guys like Durant, Rose and Griffin, because we haven't seen the players they will become, and I'm not even sure we've seen their primes yet. I also didn't give nearly as much credit to guys still in their prime like Paul, Howard, Melo, Anthony, Wiliams, Stoudemire or Bosh who have not accomplished anything yet.

Wade and Pierce have been tremendous competitors, scorers and perimeter defenders on competitive teams for long stretches of time and both guys stepped up in the playoffs. I feel like Wade is a better player, though. And while they have never been great scorers, Nash and Kidd are both guaranteed first ballot hall of famers and were both easily the best point guards in the NBA for stretches in their career.

Some people might think I have McGrady a little high, but he had the best floor vision of any non PG that I've ever seen and was an unbelievable playmaker. If he and Yao could have put it together at the right time with a few other pieces in place, they would have been insanely good. And I don't think Carter is in the same discussion as his cousin in terms of ability.

And, yes, I gave the edge to Duncan over Kobe. I think Duncan did more with less over his career and had much more of an impact on defense, while still being every bit as competitive and clutch as Kobe in the postseason.

Pierce over Tmac? I disagree with that.

Stack_NJNets
09-09-2011, 03:26 PM
Tim Duncan: The will to win
Kobe Bryant
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard
Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Paul Pierce
Tracy McGrady
Deron Williams
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Pau Gasol
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Ray Allen
Vince Carter

Chronz
09-09-2011, 03:28 PM
They should make a where they take the 300 best players of the last decade in their prime and make like random teams.

30 teams with 10 players each.

Roster Updates my friend, thats all it takes

RapToronto95
09-09-2011, 03:46 PM
Where is the love for Vince Carter? lol

Andrew32
09-09-2011, 04:08 PM
1.Tim Duncan
2.KG
3.DHoward
3.DWade
4.CP3
5.TMac
6.Lebron
7.Kobe
8.Nash
9.Dirk
10.Kidd
11.VCarter
12.Paul P
13.Gasol
14.Bosh
15.Amare
16.Carmelo
17.Durant
18.Derrick Rose
19.Blake Griffin
20.Deron

Stack_NJNets
09-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Where is the love for Vince Carter? lol

Long time Nets fan. In his first year with us he was still in his prime (sorta) and rarely showed any effort or desire to win, unless they were playing the Raptors. He was brought in as the weapon to help Jason Kidd get a ring but never nearly got it done. Love ya VC, but I'll pass.

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 04:34 PM
Pierce over Tmac? I disagree with that.

You can't argue postseason success or Pierce's clear defensive advantage. Also, if both players careers ended tomorrow, PP is in the hall of fame, T-Mac isn't. If we're talking peaks, then maybe T-Mac is the better player, butI don't know that I want someone with so little postseason experience if I'm drafting a player based on their NBA peaks.

Lloyd Christmas
09-09-2011, 05:23 PM
If every "Current Player" was in there prime, and you had a choice of whom to take what order would you draft them?

Here are the guys on the list I would imagine.

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
Dwyane Wade
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Dwight Howard
Derrick Rose
Tracy Mcgrady
Vince Carter
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin
Carmelo Anthony
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen

1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Kidd
4. Garnett
5. Lebron
6. Howard
7. Paul
8. Wade
9. Dirk
10. Gasol
11. McGrady
12. Durant
13. Staudemire
14. Rose
15. Williams
16. Pierce
17. Allen
18. Carter
19. Nash
20. Anthony
21. Griffin
22. Bosh

Bruno
09-09-2011, 05:43 PM
Based on what we know about these players regarding health and durability:

Bryant-Duncan, coin-flip.
Howard-James, coin-flip
KG-Dirk, coin-flip.
Wade (slightly injury prone).
Paul (slightly injury prone).

That's the top tier.

Ten years from now James/Howard might be the correct answer if their primes last ten years and they equal/surpass the personal and team the success of Duncan and Bryant.

Won't comment on anyone who was drafted later than '05 as their durability remains to be seen.

jericho
09-09-2011, 06:15 PM
people seem to forget how good these players were back in the day and we are talking prime not if the were injury prone or not or playoffs expirience (wish by the way evon tho tmac didnt get to sec round i still think he played better then pierce when he started to win was when he got kg & ray ray anyways
1.duncan
2.kobe(i hate him but gotta give it to him)
3.garnet
4.kidd(the guy was a triple double threat and made any team he played with contender instantly oh he didnt need to score to do soo)
5.hill(people forget how good he really was)
6.tmac(prime tmac i wld say he is better than prime kobe but kobe was hungrier)
7.bron
8.wade
9.howard
10.dirk
11.cp3
12.deron
13.kd
14.pierce
15.melo
16.stat
17.nash
18.carter
19.ray ray
im not gonna include the young gunz in it
oh and prime time playerz team not to win but just for the highlights
c.howard
pf.griffin
sf.tmac
sg.carter
pg.jwill

ManRam
09-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Hill and T-Mac over LeBron is a joke...sorry.

Hill and T-Mac are probably two of my 5-6 favorite players ever...but no.

Andrew32
09-09-2011, 08:33 PM
Wade is better then Kobe, he would have accomplished more with Prime Shaq and the late 00 LA Casts.

and Duncan is by far the best player on this list.

Ebbs
09-09-2011, 08:39 PM
LeBron
Duncan
Dirk
Dwight
Kobe
KG
Wade
Nash
Paul
T-Mac
Kidd
Pierce
Pau
Carter
Deron
Carmelo
Bosh
Stat
Allen

ManningToTyree
09-09-2011, 08:43 PM
people seem to forget how good these players were back in the day and we are talking prime not if the were injury prone or not or playoffs expirience (wish by the way evon tho tmac didnt get to sec round i still think he played better then pierce when he started to win was when he got kg & ray ray anyways
1.duncan
2.kobe(i hate him but gotta give it to him)
3.garnet
4.kidd(the guy was a triple double threat and made any team he played with contender instantly oh he didnt need to score to do soo)
5.hill(people forget how good he really was)
6.tmac(prime tmac i wld say he is better than prime kobe but kobe was hungrier)
7.bron
8.wade
9.howard
10.dirk
11.cp3
12.deron
13.kd
14.pierce
15.melo
16.stat
17.nash
18.carter
19.ray ray
im not gonna include the young gunz in it
oh and prime time playerz team not to win but just for the highlights
c.howard
pf.griffin
sf.tmac
sg.carter
pg.jwill

First off, Welcome!

Why Is Nash so low?

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 08:48 PM
I'm a little surprised Ray Allen isn't getting more love. Prior to him moving to Boston, he was unbelievably consistent No. 1 scorer who basically averaged 21-24 PPG, 3-5 APG, 4-5 RPG, 1-1.5 SPG and a 20+ PER for eight consecutive seasons. You wouldn't want that, plus one of the greatest shooters in NBA history?

Tony_Starks
09-09-2011, 08:49 PM
Kobe
Duncan
Dwight
Nash
Lebron
Garnett



everybody else

Ebbs
09-09-2011, 08:54 PM
I'm a little surprised Ray Allen isn't getting more love. Prior to him moving to Boston, he was unbelievably consistent No. 1 scorer who basically averaged 21-24 PPG, 3-5 APG, 4-5 RPG, 1-1.5 SPG and a 20+ PER for eight consecutive seasons. You wouldn't want that, plus one of the greatest shooters in NBA history?

I love Ray Allen one of my favorite NBA players ever. But he was one of those guys who couldn't carry a team by himself. He was born to be 2nd best player on the squad. He could still be a #1 scorer though.

Something like the Spurs trade Manu Gonobilli + a future first for Ray Allen would have been awesome to see.

Prime TD + Shuttlesworth would have been beastly.

knightstemplar
09-09-2011, 08:56 PM
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Wade
4. Dirk
5. Lebron
6. KG
7. Dwight
8. Nash
9. T-Mac
10. Chris Paul

jericho
09-09-2011, 09:05 PM
Hill and T-Mac over LeBron is a joke...sorry.

Hill and T-Mac are probably two of my 5-6 favorite players ever...but no.

tmac mite be a lil bit of homerism but hill naw i think he deserves to be that high he played with way much better competion and put up good #s b4 there was kobe guess they used to compare hill to mike

jericho
09-09-2011, 09:09 PM
First off, Welcome!

Why Is Nash so low?

nash is good but his #s depends on the sistem that he plays in back with the mavs he was good but when he got to the suns thats when he exploded cuz of the faster type of game the play over there he is good for longetivity (wish is weird cuz he got better after his 30s) but i wldnt pick him ahead of the other guys

TheRunKiller
09-09-2011, 10:28 PM
hmm that's a tough one. I don't know good Rose is gonna be. but i'd probably take him.

Ebbs
09-09-2011, 10:33 PM
You'd take Rose over everyone off?

Gators123
09-09-2011, 10:58 PM
hmm that's a tough one. I don't know good Rose is gonna be. but i'd probably take him.

Your not a homer at all!

Knicks21
09-09-2011, 11:11 PM
Lebron James.

Ezio
09-09-2011, 11:33 PM
Fundamentals. Timmy.

TheRunKiller
09-10-2011, 12:48 AM
Your not a homer at all!

Damn straight, im the biggest homer

Rocco Gandolfo
09-10-2011, 01:52 AM
Duncan Number one. A talented Big with the IQ and character to win
Kobe Number two. The numbers dont lie. He won with Shaq he won without Shaq
Chris Paul Number Three. The PG for the new fast paced NBA no one is better and unselfish too boot.
LeBron Number four. I cant stand the guy, but no doubting his domination of the game.
Carmelo Number Five. The man can take over any game at any time.
DWade number six. Big play Guard who steps it up in the big games.
Durrant Number seven. We havent seen much of him yet, but what we have seen is amazing.
Rose number eight. Lightning quick scorer who does it all without a great jumpshot.
Amare number nine-The man is a freak of nature and unstoppable as a PF
Pierce number ten. Tough as nails player with a nasty game.
Howard-Concerned that he simply cannot dominate in the playoffs. But in the regular season this guy is money.
Nowitski-Inside and out the man is a beast.

Most overrated?
Garnett- This guy gets more props for doing less than anyone.
Bosh- See Garnett
Deron Williams- Attitude and flash. If you cant get along with Sloan....I dont want you.
Tmac- Never liked the guy
Gasol-Right guy in the right place at the right time. (Lakers)

The Final Boss
09-10-2011, 02:55 AM
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Kobe
3. Bryant
4. Black Mamba
5. Momma, there goes THAT man!!
6. KB24
7. KB8
8. Jelly Belly
9. KB Toys
10. Assassin
10.

LakersMaster24
09-10-2011, 02:56 AM
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Garnett
4. T-Mac (if he doesnt get injured)
5. Kidd or Nash.

I didnt put any players that are in their prime right now or are yet to hit their prime, (Lebron, Howard, Durant...) because I think the question makes more sense if we use players past their prime.

MR.TRIPDUB
09-10-2011, 03:24 AM
Td
Lbj
Kobe
Kg
Dirk
Howard
Wade
Kidd
Tmac
Cp3
Vc

naps
09-10-2011, 03:26 AM
My top 5 would be:

Wade
LeBron
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett

naps
09-10-2011, 03:27 AM
And how the hell on eath Rose, Durant, and Griffin made the list? We haven't seen their primes yet.

sargon21
09-10-2011, 02:05 PM
^ That makes it fun, trying to judge on what could be as well as what has happened with Duncan, Bryant, etc.

Ovratd1up
09-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Duncan Number one. A talented Big with the IQ and character to win
Kobe Number two. The numbers dont lie. He won with Shaq he won without Shaq
Chris Paul Number Three. The PG for the new fast paced NBA no one is better and unselfish too boot.
LeBron Number four. I cant stand the guy, but no doubting his domination of the game.
Carmelo Number Five. The man can take over any game at any time.
DWade number six. Big play Guard who steps it up in the big games.
Durrant Number seven. We havent seen much of him yet, but what we have seen is amazing.
Rose number eight. Lightning quick scorer who does it all without a great jumpshot.
Amare number nine-The man is a freak of nature and unstoppable as a PF
Pierce number ten. Tough as nails player with a nasty game.
Howard-Concerned that he simply cannot dominate in the playoffs. But in the regular season this guy is money.
Nowitski-Inside and out the man is a beast.

Most overrated?
Garnett- This guy gets more props for doing less than anyone.
Bosh- See Garnett
Deron Williams- Attitude and flash. If you cant get along with Sloan....I dont want you.
Tmac- Never liked the guy
Gasol-Right guy in the right place at the right time. (Lakers)

For a solid block of years KG did more than anyone in the league.
He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

murphturph
09-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Vince carter over Tmac anyday of the week... if vince actuallly gave 100% with the raps he could of been one of the best players out there.

basketfan4life
09-10-2011, 02:28 PM
it's like every laker fan is afraid of getting bashed and picking td over kobe, but if i had a choice i'd take Kobe first, 2005-2007 lakers recors fool peole a bit, but i don't think there is one player other than Kobe who could win 45 games with that bad of a squad...i can only imagine what Kobe had done if he had one all-star caliber player in those years.

so it's

Kobe
Duncan
.... to me.

Geargo Wallace
09-10-2011, 02:33 PM
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Cuz he spits hot fire!

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-10-2011, 02:43 PM
Prime TMac> Prime Bryant

:laugh:

T-Mac's prime lasted like 1 season.

Geargo Wallace
09-10-2011, 02:51 PM
:laugh:

T-Mac's prime lasted like 1 season.

I didn't realize that I was the only person here that had this opinion. Laugh all you want.

Sadds The Gr8
09-10-2011, 02:56 PM
:laugh: at the homers in this thread

BranWingss
09-10-2011, 02:57 PM
Looks like Bosh is around his prime at the moment. Vince's prime was much better. I don't see how he can be behind Bosh in this. And are people forgetting how dominate T-Mac was in his prime? He was considered the best palyer in the league at a point.

Chacarron
09-10-2011, 02:58 PM
1) Duncan
2) Kobe
3) Paul
4) Garnett
5) Dirk
6) Lebron
7) Wade
....

Raps08-09 Champ
09-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Roster Updates my friend, thats all it takes

I meant including guys who played earlier in the decade but retired.

Like having Gary Payton against Chris Paul or something like that would be nice.

Or David Robinson against Dwight Howard

JasonJohnHorn
09-10-2011, 03:39 PM
Duncan
Garnett
Dwight

Every other pick is academic. It is so hard to build around a wing guy, so Kobe, Wade and James would likely come after even a young guy like Blake Griffen. Once you got a guy who can beast on the board, play strong interior defence and score, building a contender is easy. You get a wing player that has a great all around game and can score like made, you will more likely end up like McGrady or Carter than Bryant, and considering Bryant has never won a title without a major talent in the front court (Shaq or Gasol), and we've seen what a Bryant team does without a strong front court presence, then its really quite easy to pick duncan first. I mean, look at cleveland. They had a couple of really good rosters, title contending rosters, but never made the grade. And everybody and their dog know the Heat would have swept their way to a championship if they'd had Howard instead of James.

That is not to say that Kobe or James arent the best players, just not the best players to build around.

JasonJohnHorn
09-10-2011, 03:42 PM
Prime TMac> Prime Bryant

How could you even hope to quantify that. OMG!!!!!!!!! T-Mac at his best has never sniffed prime Kobe's @$$!!!! And look at their team success!

JasonJohnHorn
09-10-2011, 03:48 PM
I'm a little surprised Ray Allen isn't getting more love. Prior to him moving to Boston, he was unbelievably consistent No. 1 scorer who basically averaged 21-24 PPG, 3-5 APG, 4-5 RPG, 1-1.5 SPG and a 20+ PER for eight consecutive seasons. You wouldn't want that, plus one of the greatest shooters in NBA history?

Looking at what the Bucks and the Sonics were able to do with Allen as a number 1 option, the Boston experiement essentially proved that building around a great shooter as a number one option is hard to do. Allen too the Bucks to the conference finals, but that was once, and he never did any better than that. Pierce did the same on his own.

Allen is one of the great shooters in the history of the game, and would be a clear cut number-one pick in most drafts, but it would still be hard to build a team around a shooting guard.

valade16
09-10-2011, 03:55 PM
Looking at what the Bucks and the Sonics were able to do with Allen as a number 1 option, the Boston experiement essentially proved that building around a great shooter as a number one option is hard to do. Allen too the Bucks to the conference finals, but that was once, and he never did any better than that. Pierce did the same on his own.

Allen is one of the great shooters in the history of the game, and would be a clear cut number-one pick in most drafts, but it would still be hard to build a team around a shooting guard.

I assume you mean a guard who is primarily a shooter and not just a SG in general, because the Bulls did pretty good building around a SG...

valade16
09-10-2011, 04:00 PM
:laugh:

T-Mac's prime lasted like 1 season.

What does that have to do with the statement?

Quality and length are 2 different things. That guy is saying at T-Macs absolute peak, he was better than Kobe, even if that lasted for a season or 10 minutes.

Are you trying to argue that Bryants better because his peak was longer or that his peak was better because it's longer? Or that his peak was flat out better?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-10-2011, 04:04 PM
I didn't realize that I was the only person here that had this opinion. Laugh all you want.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Geargo Wallace
09-10-2011, 04:53 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh: @ your name.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-10-2011, 05:00 PM
:laugh:

T-Mac's prime lasted like 1 season.

So what?

Longevity has nothing to do if you had a good prime or not.

Take a player at his best. Regardless if he played great for 10 years or 1 year.

mavwar53
09-10-2011, 05:30 PM
how can people even put T-mac on their list he has never got out of the first round. Give me at least 30 players in the league right now ahead of him.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
09-10-2011, 05:38 PM
So what?

Longevity has nothing to do if you had a good prime or not.

Take a player at his best. Regardless if he played great for 10 years or 1 year.

why would you draft a player, when you knew that his prime will last only 1 year:confused:

JasonJohnHorn
09-10-2011, 06:09 PM
I assume you mean a guard who is primarily a shooter and not just a SG in general, because the Bulls did pretty good building around a SG...

I'd draft Hakeem or Robinson or Shaq, or any top-ten center all time (and Mikan is not a top-ten center in my book) ahead of Jordan. The Bulls were the exception to the rule, and that just illustrates how special Michael Jordan was as a player. You look at other great wing players that dominated the ball, guys like Gervin, 'Nique, T-Mac. People tried building teams around them. The Trailblazers did well with Clyde, but only because they had a loaded front court. Cliff Robinson, Buck Williams, Jerome Kersey, Kevin Duckworth. The Bulls spent the better part of a decade trying to build around Jordan, and had he been a player of this generation he would have left during free agency after failing to beat the Pistons three years in a row. Building around a guard takes a long time and a lot of commitment. Now there have been front court studs who have stayed with teams for long period of time and didnt meet success, but the players were either overrated (Pat Ewing), didnt play for their teams for long periods (Shaq, Mourning), or had a front office that fumbled the ball (Garnett, Barkley in philly).

It is hard to build around wing players because they can only give you so much, even if they are the best at their positions. Look at Oscar Robertson. The dude averaged a tripple double, but he wasnt able to win until Kareem came around, because even though he was dropping in 30 points, handing out close to 10 dimes and rebounding like a power forward, he still could not provide the interior defence that a team needs to win. Jordan is the exception. But I challenge you to name one team without a player named Jordan on their roster who managed to win by building a guard. Even the Pistons, who won with Thomas as their franchise player were building that team with Bill Laimbeer in the middle, and LA lucked out when Memphis was looking to dump the contract of their franchise player.

As a franchise, it is simply easy to build around a center or power forward. I mean the Pistons built a perenial contender around a center (Ben Wallace) that couldnt even score ten points a game! Just because he could rebound and defend. Having a guy in the middle that can rebound and defend is 75% of building a winner. It is the hardest piece to fill. On the chess board you NEED a Queen to win. You have two rooks, to bishops, two knights and lots of pawns, but unless you have a queen, you can win, unless your bishop's name is Michael Jordan.

I could be wrong. But there is a reason why Odom got drafted over Durant, and Bowie got drafted over Jordan. It is because it is easier to build around a good center than it is to build around a great wing player.

That said: Ray Allen if fawking awesome!

JordansBulls
09-10-2011, 07:37 PM
I'd draft Hakeem or Robinson or Shaq, or any top-ten center all time (and Mikan is not a top-ten center in my book) ahead of Jordan. The Bulls were the exception to the rule, and that just illustrates how special Michael Jordan was as a player.

You don't draft those guys ahead of MJ. He was the Best Player that played both ends of the court, never had a player better than he was on his teams, always had the best stats on his teams and also generally the league. #1 all time in PER in the season and playoffs, #1 all time in WS/PER 48 minutes in the season and playoffs meaning he helps his team win more than anyone else in NBA History. #1 all time in season, playoffs and finals ppg as well and is the only top 20 player ever to go undefeated having HCA which he was 24-0 and 14-0 against teams that won 50+ when he had HCA.
All those other stars in league history had stars as well on there teams and still lost series with HCA to teams clearly inferior and got outplayed in playoff series as well.

Fireworld
09-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Nash

jericho
09-11-2011, 11:55 AM
How could you even hope to quantify that. OMG!!!!!!!!! T-Mac at his best has never sniffed prime Kobe's @$$!!!! And look at their team success!

i did put kobe ahead of tmac in my list but still kobe had the better teams when tmac was in orlando please tell me who he got his still got them to the playoffs with nobody he still did good in the playoffs in fact he played even better in the playoffs he had no help to be at all everybody judges tmac for the injuries and not passing the first round but injury free and better teamates like kobe had he wld have been unstopable just for the argument guys check his stats come playoff time and dont say he didnt bring it
oh and i dont know who it was that said that prime wade was better than prime kobe pls dude you gota be joking it is rite now and he barely is better than him come on

Jays Claw
09-11-2011, 12:28 PM
McGrady should be in everyone's top 5. Let's not forget how good he actually was in his prime/non-injured years.

JordansBulls
10-01-2011, 06:53 PM
McGrady should be in everyone's top 5. Let's not forget how good he actually was in his prime/non-injured years.

That's mainly 2003 and maybe 2005.

KnicksorBust
10-01-2011, 10:10 PM
I'd draft Hakeem or Robinson or Shaq, or any top-ten center all time (and Mikan is not a top-ten center in my book) ahead of Jordan. The Bulls were the exception to the rule, and that just illustrates how special Michael Jordan was as a player. You look at other great wing players that dominated the ball, guys like Gervin, 'Nique, T-Mac. People tried building teams around them. The Trailblazers did well with Clyde, but only because they had a loaded front court. Cliff Robinson, Buck Williams, Jerome Kersey, Kevin Duckworth. The Bulls spent the better part of a decade trying to build around Jordan, and had he been a player of this generation he would have left during free agency after failing to beat the Pistons three years in a row. Building around a guard takes a long time and a lot of commitment. Now there have been front court studs who have stayed with teams for long period of time and didnt meet success, but the players were either overrated (Pat Ewing), didnt play for their teams for long periods (Shaq, Mourning), or had a front office that fumbled the ball (Garnett, Barkley in philly).

It is hard to build around wing players because they can only give you so much, even if they are the best at their positions. Look at Oscar Robertson. The dude averaged a tripple double, but he wasnt able to win until Kareem came around, because even though he was dropping in 30 points, handing out close to 10 dimes and rebounding like a power forward, he still could not provide the interior defence that a team needs to win. Jordan is the exception. But I challenge you to name one team without a player named Jordan on their roster who managed to win by building a guard. Even the Pistons, who won with Thomas as their franchise player were building that team with Bill Laimbeer in the middle, and LA lucked out when Memphis was looking to dump the contract of their franchise player.

As a franchise, it is simply easy to build around a center or power forward. I mean the Pistons built a perenial contender around a center (Ben Wallace) that couldnt even score ten points a game! Just because he could rebound and defend. Having a guy in the middle that can rebound and defend is 75% of building a winner. It is the hardest piece to fill. On the chess board you NEED a Queen to win. You have two rooks, to bishops, two knights and lots of pawns, but unless you have a queen, you can win, unless your bishop's name is Michael Jordan.

I could be wrong. But there is a reason why Odom got drafted over Durant, and Bowie got drafted over Jordan. It is because it is easier to build around a good center than it is to build around a great wing player.

That said: Ray Allen if fawking awesome!

How bout the guy that won 2 of the last three titles?

And I'm nit-picking here but "Odom" over Durant? Stuff like that drives me crazy. :cool:

llemon
10-01-2011, 10:14 PM
Trying to conceive what Wilt would do if he was drafted in his prime today, meaning he'd be like 19 years old.

bagwell368
10-01-2011, 10:24 PM
I'll just take a starting 5, thanks:

Duncan
Garnett
Hill
Kobe
Kidd

All play D, all pass, all can shoot, all can run. There is just one rock guys...

Korman12
10-01-2011, 10:42 PM
Duncan. I find it extremely hard to pick otherwise.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:49 PM
1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Wade
5. CP3
6. Dirk
7. Garnett
8. Nash
9. Howard
10. Tmac/Pierce/Kidd

Prime LeBron was better than Prime Wade, I can admit this. I usually argue for who is better now and that is Wade.

Dirk was not actually better than Garnett was in his prime but I feel like Dirk would be easier to build around than Garnett.

THE GIPPER
10-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Garnett was better than most realize it would've been interesting to see what he could have done if he was in Timmy's situation during his prime.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 10:52 PM
Garnett was better than most realize it would've been interesting to see what he could have done if he was in Timmy's situation during his prime.

Garnett wouldn't have won in 2003 and that is what separates Duncan from Garnett and every other PF that ever played.

THE GIPPER
10-01-2011, 10:56 PM
Garnett wouldn't have won in 2003 and that is what separates Duncan from Garnett and every other PF that ever played.

You cant say that like you know for sure because nobody knows its completely hypothetical

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:01 PM
Garnett wouldn't have won in 2003 and that is what separates Duncan from Garnett and every other PF that ever played.

I realize that Duncan had a sensational '03 Finals vs. an overmatched Nets frontcourt (except when Deke was on the court), but does anyone remember that Speedy Claxton was a major factor in why the Spurs won that series?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:10 PM
You cant say that like you know for sure because nobody knows its completely hypothetical

I hope you understand what Duncan did that season....

The Admiral in his final season on his last legs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody. Tony Parker a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Duncan led that crew to a title. Duncan led them past the 3-peat Lakers, going for 37/16 on the Lakers own home court to finish them off. He then almost had a quadruple double in the last game of the finals, going for 21 points, 20 boards, 10 dimes and 8 blocks. Meanwhile, the guy he was guarding, K-Mart, went 3-19 for 6 points. It doesn't get much more dominating than that.

KG has never done that and never will. Neither has Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and the list continues.

Duncan's Spurs in 02-03 was not much better than Garnett's team in Minnesota.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:11 PM
I realize that Duncan had a sensational '03 Finals vs. an overmatched Nets frontcourt (except when Deke was on the court), but does anyone remember that Speedy Claxton was a major factor in why the Spurs won that series?
Yes a guy who averages 6 ppg in the regular season and 5 ppg in the post-season was definitely a major factor. :rolleyes: If he was a factor it was more than likely because of Duncan.

THE GIPPER
10-01-2011, 11:21 PM
I hope you understand what Duncan did that season....

The Admiral in his final season on his last legs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody. Tony Parker a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Duncan led that crew to a title. Duncan led them past the 3-peat Lakers, going for 37/16 on the Lakers own home court to finish them off. He then almost had a quadruple double in the last game of the finals, going for 21 points, 20 boards, 10 dimes and 8 blocks. Meanwhile, the guy he was guarding, K-Mart, went 3-19 for 6 points. It doesn't get much more dominating than that.

KG has never done that and never will. Neither has Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and the list continues.

Duncan's Spurs in 02-03 was not much better than Garnett's team in Minnesota.

I remember the laker series. He was amazing. But your argument is still hypothetical. Even though i do think timmy was better than KG it still would've been nice to see what KG could do with a supporting cast (and coach) like timmy had in his prime.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:24 PM
I remember the laker series. He was amazing. But your argument is still hypothetical. Even though i do think timmy was better than KG it still would've been nice to see what KG could do with a supporting cast (and coach) like timmy had in his prime.

I do think KG could have won maybe one or two championships with the Spurs but definitely no more than two. I also feel like the Spurs would have won in different seasons and not the exact. Like I almost feel that Garnett would give the Spurs a better chance to win in 04 and 06 instead of 05 or something like that.

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:24 PM
Yes a guy who averages 6 ppg in the regular season and 5 ppg in the post-season was definitely a major factor. :rolleyes: If he was a factor it was more than likely because of Duncan.

Did you watch the '03 Finals, statboy?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:26 PM
Did you watch the '03 Finals, statboy?

If you want to call Claxton instrumental then lets call John Paxson instrumental and lets call Robert Horry instrumental and lets call Steve Kerr instrumental. :rolleyes:

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:29 PM
If you want to call Claxton instrumental then lets call John Paxson instrumental and lets call Robert Horry instrumental and lets call Steve Kerr instrumental. :rolleyes:

Statboy, did you watch the '03 Finals?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:31 PM
Claxton in 2003 NBA Finals

Game 1 - 2 points, 1/3 shooting
Game 2 - 5 points, 2/2 shooting
Game 3 - 4 points, 2/2 shooting
Game 4 - 10 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists 3/6 shooting
Game 5 - 3 points, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks (wtf), 1 rebound, 1/4 shooting
Game 6 - 13 points, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 5/8 shooting

Only game where he looked like he made an impact was Game 6 and that was the same game Duncan pretty much had a quad-double.

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:33 PM
Claxton in 2003 NBA Finals

Game 1 - 2 points, 1/3 shooting
Game 2 - 5 points, 2/2 shooting
Game 3 - 4 points, 2/2 shooting
Game 4 - 10 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists 3/6 shooting
Game 5 - 3 points, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks (wtf), 1 rebound, 1/4 shooting
Game 6 - 13 points, 4 assists, 1 rebound, 5/8 shooting

Only game where he looked like he made an impact was Game 6 and that was the same game Duncan pretty much had a quad-double.

Statboy. '03 Finals. Did you watch?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:36 PM
Yes, now what is your point now?

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:40 PM
Yes, now what is your point now?

Of course, I think you are lying.

But why did Claxton get playing time?

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:43 PM
Of course, I think you are lying.

But why did Claxton get playing time?
Because Parker couldn't shoot.....and you are asking me questions that someone who didn't even watch the finals would know. I was young when I watched it but I watched it again on YouTube last summer. I mainly was watching Duncan highlights because I didn't have the patience to watch the entire game.

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:47 PM
Because Parker couldn't shoot.....and you are asking me questions that someone who didn't even watch the finals would know. I was young when I watched it but I watched it again on YouTube last summer. I mainly was watching Duncan highlights because I didn't have the patience to watch the entire game.

So, you admit you have no idea what you are talking about. Thank you.

PinnacleFlash
10-01-2011, 11:48 PM
So, you admit you have no idea what you are talking about. Thank you.
Sure, I don't have a clue. Kevin Garnett would win over 6+ championships with the Spurs.

/ of sarcasm.

llemon
10-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Sure, I don't have a clue.

I know.

Chronz
10-02-2011, 01:00 AM
how can people even put T-mac on their list he has never got out of the first round. Give me at least 30 players in the league right now ahead of him.

LOL fail

MTar786
10-02-2011, 01:35 AM
kobe

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:51 AM
If you want to call Claxton instrumental then lets call John Paxson instrumental and lets call Robert Horry instrumental and lets call Steve Kerr instrumental. :rolleyes:

Kerr and Horry were both key players in their championship teams.

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:53 AM
Kerr and Horry were both key players in their championship teams.
Yeah they were the best player on their teams too just like Tony Parker was in the 2007 Spurs team right?

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:55 AM
Yeah they were the best player on their teams too just like Tony Parker was in the 2007 Spurs team right?

Do you know what the term "key player" means?

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 02:56 AM
Do you know what the term "key player" means?
Yeah Dwyane Wade was a key player to explain why the Heat were close in the 2011 NBA Finals and LeBron wasn't to explain why the Heat lost in the 2011 NBA finals.

LakersMaster24
10-02-2011, 02:58 AM
Yeah Dwyane Wade was a key player to explain why the Heat were close in the 2011 NBA Finals and LeBron wasn't to explain why the Heat lost in the 2011 NBA finals.

*Read in a slow paced elementary school teacher type voice*

Key player, is someone who contributes to winning a championship. He does not need to be the best player on the team, or even the 2nd best player.

For example: In 2002, Robert Horry was a KEY PLAYER for the Lakers on their road to the championship.

ORRRR

In 1988, Michael Cooper was a key player for the Lakers.

Do you understand now?

PinnacleFlash
10-02-2011, 03:00 AM
*Read in a slow paced elementary school teacher type voice*

Key player, is someone who contributes to winning a championship. He does not need to be the best player on the team, or even the 2nd best player.

For example: In 2002, Robert Horry was a KEY PLAYER for the Lakers on their road to the championship.

ORRRR

In 1988, Michael Cooper was a key player for the Lakers.

Do you understand now?
Nope. please explain more in thorough detail.

Lakers + Giants
10-02-2011, 04:26 AM
Has to be Timmy and Duncan!

RaiderLakersA's
10-03-2011, 03:55 PM
My starting 5...

1. Duncan (C)
2. Kobe (SG)
3. KG (PF)
4. BronBron (PG)
5. Truth (SF)

nickdymez
10-03-2011, 04:06 PM
Kobe
Duncan
Garnett
Howard

kdspurman
10-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Statboy. '03 Finals. Did you watch?

Speedy definitely hit some big shots in that game. Him as well as Captain Jack came through. Jackson hit I think 2 or 3 consecutive 3's to push them on a 19-0 run in the 2nd half. Duncan did however have 3 shots during that run as well which helped keep the momentum. The double teams on Timmy allowed those other guys to knock down shots and they did just that

kdspurman
10-04-2011, 02:25 PM
I hope you understand what Duncan did that season....

The Admiral in his final season on his last legs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody. Tony Parker a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Duncan led that crew to a title. Duncan led them past the 3-peat Lakers, going for 37/16 on the Lakers own home court to finish them off. He then almost had a quadruple double in the last game of the finals, going for 21 points, 20 boards, 10 dimes and 8 blocks. Meanwhile, the guy he was guarding, K-Mart, went 3-19 for 6 points. It doesn't get much more dominating than that.

KG has never done that and never will. Neither has Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and the list continues.

Duncan's Spurs in 02-03 was not much better than Garnett's team in Minnesota.

Not to mention setting a record of 32 blocks in a series. That's insane

smith&wesson
10-04-2011, 02:48 PM
duncan
lebron
kobe
kg
howard
nash
dirk
ray allen
cp3
durant
paul pierce
kidd
d.rose
anthony
d.will
gasol
stat
griffen
carter
tmac
bosh

beasted86
10-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Off peak talent alone, not winning or knowing what I would have around them, in today's league:

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Carter
8. Nash
9. McGrady
10. Wade

dnewguy
10-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Duncan
Wade
LBJ
Dwight Howard
rest is a toss up.

naps
10-04-2011, 03:22 PM
Knowing what we already know?

Duncan
Wade
LeBron
Garnett
Kobe

$KnicksAndKobe$
10-04-2011, 03:57 PM
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Wade
4. Lebron
5. T-Mac
6. Kidd
7. KG
8. Pierce
9. Allen
10. Metta World Piece

=D Shaq would be #1 but he doesn't count

3RDASYSTEM
10-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Over half of you guys dont know diff. betweeen 'prime' and 'peak', KG was primed strait out of HS(so was SHAQ/JAMES/IVERSON/ROSE etc) and i want to say he was starting by mid or late season rookie yr, he was 'primed' and destined for greatness from Farragut...i take that back,its just my definition of peak vs prime,we all entitled to sports opinion,regards of how far out of ballpark we are

Its almost like everybody on here puts a peak player(developing player who gets it going but has a shaky inception or so so first 3-4yrs then gets going)ala KOBE/ over a primed(ready from day 1 and delivers,superstar franchise changer type,carrying a heavy load from day 1 or equipped to do it) ala JAMES/IVERSON

The players i feel are 'primed' are the ones strait out the gate destroying the league/competiton from day 1 not waited to see when/if he'll ever peak(develop)....(MOSS/IVERSON/SHAQ/JAMES) and its more of those type out there but not many

It goes the same for other sports also, its like the late draft pick who finally blossomed gets more praise than the guy who has been doing it from day 1 and beyond even when the late rd draft pick player finally 'caught up'

guess i look at it this way from actually playing and having a couple people i knew personally go 21st pick overall(rd1) of NBA and also a 10th rd pick of NFL...I couldnt imagine in a million yrs if that 10th rd draft pick would have made 3pro bowls and won 2-3rings and a SB MVP people would be mentioning him n the same breath as R.WHITE/L.TAYLOR or so, i would say hell no way, he was a 10th rd pick who had a hell of a career coming from the 10th rd(nothing more,nothin less)and its sad becuz the teams he played for won the SB after they traded him away,hurt me also cuz i would have been to both of'em...BRONCOS/RAVENS

Its like KOBE didnt hit his 'prime' in my book til 2000 and didnt look back,but on that note IVERSON was primed since HS(Junior) and never changed his game/style once in NBA(didnt need to,he was that skilled) so my ? is when do players reach there 'prime'?, im sure we have diff. views on it

i just feel the media is more toward late late draft picks who work hard(in media eyes) and are 'yes' men for most part

but the 'freakish,never seen it before type of athlete' who has the skill to match/surpass the late rd draftee, gets killed in the media as 'non hard workers or horrible work ethic' and blah blah, bunch of bs if u ask me

Had to get off topic lil bit cuz i keep seeing the 'prime' label and its like JAMES was way more primed than KOBE coming out of HS and its showed on the court, cuz in my book JAMES would have never been 'battling' it out with E.JONES/N.VAN EXEL at any point for minutes...maybe for the first month so LAKER org can show respect to vet players,but for 3yrs do you think a 'primed' talent like JAMES would have been a backup to those non HOF caliber type players? hell no,not even for half a season

Evolution23
10-04-2011, 04:40 PM
^ Not reading all that

THE GIPPER
10-04-2011, 05:25 PM
duncan
lebron
garnett
howard
kobe

3RDASYSTEM
10-04-2011, 05:32 PM
It figures PSD would only want to get half educated so they could figure out that 'prime' means ready for 'biggest stage' right from athlete inception,some just are primed earlier than others and for a longer period after,not my fault you dont want to read probably the most educated post on here,shame on u EVOLUTION23..you'd be shocked to know what you could learn from a person who actually played a sport, i dont have anything invested in these athletes so take a spade for what it is..a spade

mavwar53
10-04-2011, 05:46 PM
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Lebron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwayne Wade
7. Paul Pierce
8. Steve Nash
9. Tracy McGrady
10. Jason Kidd
11. Ray Allen
12. Dwight Howard
13. Chris Paul
14. Pau Gasol
15. Vince Carter
16. Carmelo Anthony
17. Deron Williams
18. Amare Stoudemire
19. Chris Bosh

I took out guys like Durant, Rose and Griffin, because we haven't seen the players they will become, and I'm not even sure we've seen their primes yet. I also didn't give nearly as much credit to guys still in their prime like Paul, Howard, Melo, Anthony, Wiliams, Stoudemire or Bosh who have not accomplished anything yet.

Wade and Pierce have been tremendous competitors, scorers and perimeter defenders on competitive teams for long stretches of time and both guys stepped up in the playoffs. I feel like Wade is a better player, though. And while they have never been great scorers, Nash and Kidd are both guaranteed first ballot hall of famers and were both easily the best point guards in the NBA for stretches in their career.

Some people might think I have McGrady a little high, but he had the best floor vision of any non PG that I've ever seen and was an unbelievable playmaker. If he and Yao could have put it together at the right time with a few other pieces in place, they would have been insanely good. And I don't think Carter is in the same discussion as his cousin in terms of ability.

And, yes, I gave the edge to Duncan over Kobe. I think Duncan did more with less over his career and had much more of an impact on defense, while still being every bit as competitive and clutch as Kobe in the postseason.

Not to pick on just you but why are people so enamored with T-mac, what did he do in his prime? Make it to the playoffs and lose and lose and lose and lose.

naps
10-05-2011, 12:35 AM
Not to pick on just you but why are people so enamored with T-mac, what did he do in his prime? Make it to the playoffs and lose and lose and lose and lose.

Agreed. Tracy McGrady is vastly overrated on these online forums. He was great for couple of years. That's about it. He never led his team anywhere but home. His teammates were happy because they could go home and relax for more time than other contemporary superstars' teammates.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 04:53 PM
Dirk, Duncan, Bryant, the rest don't really matter, as they really haven't won a darn thing.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 04:58 PM
Wow so many of you have ompletely underrated Dwyane Wade. I think you have already forgotten 2006... how many of those other players have ever had a finals performance like that?

People have t-mac, kg, etc ahead of him... come on now...

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Durant

daleja424
10-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Off peak talent alone, not winning or knowing what I would have around them, in today's league:

1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Carter
8. Nash
9. McGrady
10. Wade

Wade's peak was/is soooo much better than more than half of those guys man...

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:04 PM
Wow so many of you have ompletely underrated Dwyane Wade. I think you have already forgotten 2006... how many of those other players have ever had a finals performance like that?

People have t-mac, kg, etc ahead of him... come on now...

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Wade
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Durant

he's no good without the refs fixing the games for him. Plus he has an attitude problem that hurts his team. You can see it on his face, the way he looks like a snob or something. He's just very arogant and it hurts his team. I bet if you asked him if he's the best basketball player ever he'd get mad at the question

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:06 PM
he's no good without the refs fixing the games for him. Plus he has an attitude problem that hurts his team. You can see it on his face, the way he looks like a snob or something. He's just very arogant and it hurts his team. I bet if you asked him if he's the best basketball player ever he'd get mad at the question

The question is about peak though. At his peak in 2006 he didnt have an attitude problem and he was unstoppable on both ends of the court. That is what we have to remember.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:09 PM
The question is about peak though. At his peak in 2006 he didnt have an attitude problem and he was unstoppable on both ends of the court. That is what we have to remember.

I'm sure he's had the attitude since he was a young lad. It's just gotten worse over the past few years.

He showed the attitude in 06 when he clearly showed he was inferior to Dirk and showed great frustration during the games and after the games. It was only for the refs fixing the games that he got even more stuck up.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:13 PM
I'm sure he's had the attitude since he was a young lad. It's just gotten worse over the past few years.

He showed the attitude in 06 when he clearly showed he was inferior to Dirk and showed great frustration during the games and after the games. It was only for the refs fixing the games that he got even more stuck up.

wow... you want some cheese with that wine...

grow up man. Wade was the consensus best player on the planet in 2006 and led his team to a championship. He is >>>>>>>>> T-Mac and these other scrubs

KnicksorBust
10-05-2011, 05:15 PM
wow... you want some cheese with that wine...

grow up man. Wade was the consensus best player on the planet in 2006 and led his team to a championship. He is >>>>>>>>> T-Mac and these other scrubs

I agree but how the hell can you take him over Prime Duncan?

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:21 PM
wow... you want some cheese with that wine...

grow up man. Wade was the consensus best player on the planet in 2006 and led his team to a championship. He is >>>>>>>>> T-Mac and these other scrubs

So you say he was the greatest player in 06 at age 23-24 or whatever...
What happened now???????? Shouldn't he be better in his actual prime..

Awhh I know, he needs the refs to fix his games for him

Dirk is the Best player in the World since about 03. that is when Duncan fell off and Bryant's game fell off some as he had to deal with a huge legal trouble.

From 03 to now. Dirk is head and shoulders above the rest. He's won the most games, went to the finals twice and won both, but had the mafia and refs fix the first one.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:23 PM
So you say he was the greatest player in 06 at age 23-24 or whatever...
What happened now???????? Shouldn't he be better in his actual prime..

Awhh I know, he needs the refs to fix his games for him

Dirk is the Best player in the World since about 03. that is when Duncan fell off and Bryant's game fell off some as he had to deal with a huge legal trouble.

From 03 to now. Dirk is head and shoulders above the rest. He's won the most games, went to the finals twice and won both, but hand the mafia and refs fix the first one.

:facepalm:

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:24 PM
I agree but how the hell can you take him over Prime Duncan?

It is close for me... but personally I think that Wade in 06 was better than anything Duncan ever did...

so if we are talking about peak... Wade peaked higher...

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:25 PM
shows how much you know about basketball.
You have nothing.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:27 PM
It is close for me... but personally I think that Wade in 06 was better than anything Duncan ever did...

so if we are talking about peak... Wade peaked higher...

His real answer is, if he can have those three refs that fixed the series, then he'll take wade.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:28 PM
So you're so stupid that you'll take wade first and only have about 1 and half good prime years out of him...
But if he takes Dirk or Duncan you'll get about 12 Great years, rarely miss games and rarely lose... You're so used to losing there in miami that you don't know what good basketball is.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:29 PM
You have 14 posts on this site... and every single one of them is about Dirk in one way or another... you are clearly a fanboy and I have zero interest wasting a rational conversation on a homer such as yourself.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:29 PM
So have fun going 42 and 40 every season that wade is the leader.

KnicksorBust
10-05-2011, 05:32 PM
So have fun going 42 and 40 every season that wade is the leader.

The year they went 43-39 was his best full season. To me, that season puts him in my top 5.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:32 PM
You have 14 posts on this site... and every single one of them is about Dirk in one way or another... you are clearly a fanboy and I have zero interest wasting a rational conversation on a homer such as yourself.

I saw the lack of appreciation he was getting here.
Plus you're really dumb here, you need a crash course on the game.
wade = loser that needs refs to fix the game for him... then he doesn't even realize this and talks smack

Dirk = winner that doesn't need the refs to fix games for him and beats llittle punks like wade when that try and talk.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:33 PM
The year they went 43-39 was his best full season. To me, that season puts him in my top 5.

exactly, he's not a franchise player. He's probably not even top 5.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:36 PM
You keep telling yourself that... of course anyone who actually watched the finals knows that Jason Terry was the key to the Mavs winning. Anyone who watched knows that dirk's best game was the one the Mavs actually lost and it was Jason Terry's worst game.

But you don't bother watching do you? Clearly Dirk is you almighty god... You have blind faith in his abilities... no need to actually see him play good to believe it...

KnicksorBust
10-05-2011, 05:36 PM
exactly, he's not a franchise player. He's probably not even top 5.

What? I'm saying he's one of the five best players current players in their prime. Hell yes that makes him a franchise player.

NYKnicksAllDay
10-05-2011, 05:36 PM
So you say he was the greatest player in 06 at age 23-24 or whatever...
What happened now???????? Shouldn't he be better in his actual prime..

Awhh I know, he needs the refs to fix his games for him

Dirk is the Best player in the World since about 03. that is when Duncan fell off and Bryant's game fell off some as he had to deal with a huge legal trouble.

From 03 to now. Dirk is head and shoulders above the rest. He's won the most games, went to the finals twice and won both, but had the mafia and refs fix the first one.

:laugh2: this is laughable.

KnicksorBust
10-05-2011, 05:37 PM
You keep telling yourself that... of course anyone who actually watched the finals knows that Jason Terry was the key to the Mavs winning. Anyone who watched knows that dirk's best game was the one the Mavs actually lost and it was Jason Terry's worst game.

But you don't bother watching do you? Clearly Dirk is you almighty god... You have blind faith in his abilities... no need to actually see him play good to believe it...

Let's not go too far. :) Terry was the X-Factor but Dirk was the key to that title run. Terry couldn't have been Terry if it wasn't for Dirk.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:41 PM
Let's not go too far. :) Terry was the X-Factor but Dirk was the key to that title run. Terry couldn't have been Terry if it wasn't for Dirk.

Entirely possible... but it was Jason Terry that drove the stake into Miami's heart game after game... not Dirk and his 37% over the final three games of the series (24-64 FGs)...

NYKnicksAllDay
10-05-2011, 05:45 PM
I gotta side with Daleja on this one. If not for Terry I don't think they win the Finals this year. He had a good case for Finals MVP himself.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:54 PM
Dirk made Two game winners in that series. Terry made one.
yes Terry was important just like Pippen was important to the Bulls.
It's a team effort.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:54 PM
Either way, wade was not as good as Terry and not as good as Dirk.

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:55 PM
Yup. Wade actually had a better Finals than Dirk... but Miami lost b/c Terry had a bigger impact on the game than Lebron did. Prett pathetic really...

daleja424
10-05-2011, 05:57 PM
Dirk- 26 ppg on 41.6% FGs, 11.7 reb+assists

Wade- 26.5 ppg on 54.6% FGs, 12.2 reb+assists

you were saying?

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 05:57 PM
Dirk's defense and rebounding was the main factor in the series. The miami cheat couldn't score. Especially in the half court. Mean while Dallas was lighting them up.

wade played like a role player in that series. can you blame him... he has to wait for lebron to pass the ball.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 06:00 PM
Dirk- 26 ppg on 41.6% FGs, 11.7 reb+assists

Wade- 26.5 ppg on 54.6% FGs, 12.2 reb+assists

you were saying?

Dirk was clutch

YOU WERE SAYING?????? AHHHHAHAHAH

daleja424
10-05-2011, 06:00 PM
Dirk's defense and rebounding was the main factor in the series. The miami cheat couldn't score. Especially in the half court. Mean while Dallas was lighting them up.

wade played like a role player in that series. can you blame him... he has to wait for lebron to pass the ball.

LMAO! Okay, you have ZERO interest in having a real conversation. Peace.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 06:04 PM
LMAO! Okay, you have ZERO interest in having a real conversation. Peace.

wade's team lost and you favored them to win... what happened...

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 06:06 PM
Dirk owned the backboard off wade sorry missed threes and that's what won it for the Mavs. Deal with it.

Jtatstarranch
10-05-2011, 06:19 PM
These are the things that matter...
Durability, character... (you don't want him going off raping some girl) total wins reg season, total wins playoffs, what he means to his franchise and city, total rings, total points over the career, total rebounds, total assists, points per shot attempt, fewest turnovers.......

MSleeze
10-06-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm surprised to see Kobe isn't topping every list

Rentzias
10-06-2011, 01:47 PM
A couple of buddies and I did a all-time league fantasy draft and for no reason, and it basically came back to drafting LeBron at the top because 1) it allows you to draft either an big or an elite defender or 2) allows you to draft an elite scorer in the later rounds because LeBron is a willing passer. You are essentially killing off your need for an elite PG, an elite scorer, a multiple-position defender, and a mismatch. This is coming from a diehard MJ fan. You can build a better complementary team around Bron, but good luck in the 4th quarter.

iam brett favre
10-06-2011, 03:36 PM
1. Matt Bonner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY&feature=related
I consider that his prime

Jtatstarranch
10-06-2011, 04:00 PM
A couple of buddies and I did a all-time league fantasy draft and for no reason, and it basically came back to drafting LeBron at the top because 1) it allows you to draft either an big or an elite defender or 2) allows you to draft an elite scorer in the later rounds because LeBron is a willing passer. You are essentially killing off your need for an elite PG, an elite scorer, a multiple-position defender, and a mismatch. This is coming from a diehard MJ fan. You can build a better complementary team around Bron, but good luck in the 4th quarter.

Exactly, he can't win the big games when the other team actually pays attention. He benefits from an 82 game season and playing in the Weak East.

Rentzias
10-06-2011, 04:30 PM
It's just a different take because this thread says "what order would you draft them" in, but I think everyone defaults to the PSD ranking mentality, and instead of thinking in a draft/team perspective, we go to ranking 1 through whatever. When you actually look at it from an overall team performance, nuts-and-bolts POV, the draft order changes a bit because you have to account for being able to deal with the other superstars who will now be scattered on other teams instead of being hoarded into the mega-teams.

kdspurman
10-07-2011, 05:04 PM
So you say he was the greatest player in 06 at age 23-24 or whatever...
What happened now???????? Shouldn't he be better in his actual prime..

Awhh I know, he needs the refs to fix his games for him

Dirk is the Best player in the World since about 03. that is when Duncan fell off and Bryant's game fell off some as he had to deal with a huge legal trouble.

From 03 to now. Dirk is head and shoulders above the rest. He's won the most games, went to the finals twice and won both, but had the mafia and refs fix the first one.

This was a painful post to read... And a slap in the face to a lot of players. Dirk was not even close to head and shoulders above the rest. If he was, I doubt his boys get ousted by the warriors. Had he been a defensive presence and rebounded like a 7 footer should, maybe you have a valid argument.

Duncan's game started to fall off in 2009-2010, and even then his numbers were pretty solid. Dirk wasn't better than Kobe, Lebron, Wade, and not even KG.He is way too one-dimensional.

OGMarkWahlberg
10-07-2011, 08:27 PM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

Bruno
10-08-2011, 05:46 AM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

:laugh2:


Who are the five greatest rappers of all-time?

Knicks21
10-08-2011, 07:10 AM
1. Matt Bonner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmDJEfVYSY&feature=related
I consider that his prime

Easily 20ppg in Mikes system.

beasted86
10-08-2011, 09:30 AM
Wade's peak was/is soooo much better than more than half of those guys man...

McGrady/Wade is the only guys I have interchangeable on that list.


1. Duncan
2. Garnett
3. LeBron
4. Kobe
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Carter
8. Nash
9. McGrady
10. Wade
Here's how I break it down:
-Duncan/Garnett's peak are clearly better than Wade's easy
-LeBron is so high because he was a superstar before stepping on the floor, I want to put fans in the seats
-Kobe's peak I feel is slightly better than Wade's
-Howard + Dirk is for positioning purpose.
-Carter's peak is no better than Wade's peak, but fans like high flying dunks and so forth, so he's higher
-Nash, like I said in the disclaimer I don't know what I have around them. I feel peak Nash made teammates around him better, despite being a weaker volume scorer & all around defender

ebbucsfan
10-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Maybe John Wall would go high? He should some serious flashes of greatness last year in many different ways. He showed he can score like an elite player, pass like an elite player, and play elite defense.

But the thing is Wall is still really young and in his prime could be one of the top 5 players in the game(not all time but, at the time he's playing is what I mean). So I think he would probably go pretty high in an actual draft like this.

ivylleague1'
10-08-2011, 10:38 AM
The best player in the list is ..... Lebron James.

He is the most versatile, most talented and most skilled. To draft the rest

you must have a quality team for them to be effective. In other words you

must have the proper players in place.

Tony_Starks
10-08-2011, 03:11 PM
1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan


:clap: I swear that never gets old!



The real funny thing is some of these new Lebron fans are so crazy you almost hear the same thing.

"Who's the top 5 players in the league?
1.Lebron
2.Lebron
3.Lebron
4.Lebron
5.Lebron.....because he spits hot fire!!"

strokeman
10-08-2011, 04:09 PM
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Tim Duncan
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Durant
Vince Carter
Tracy Mcgrady
Ray Allen
Dwyane Wade
Paul Pierce
Carmelo Anthony
Derrick Rose
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Amare Stoudemire
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol
Blake Griffin

kdspurman
10-08-2011, 06:10 PM
The best player in the list is ..... Lebron James.

He is the most versatile, most talented and most skilled. To draft the rest

you must have a quality team for them to be effective. In other words you

must have the proper players in place.

I wouldnt say that. Kobe, Duncan, KG, etc in their primes were just as versatile and as talented. Lebrons advantage is his physique. Other than that, those other guys and even Wade in their primes I think can definitely be drafted over Lebron. We're talking about primes... Lebron is not more skilled than these guys were in their primes.