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JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 12:14 PM
Voting for #31 has concluded and PSD's Official #31 NBA Player of all time is....

Bob Cousy

Top 5 Voting:

Bob Cousy = 25 votes
Allen Iverson = 18 votes
Walt Frazier = 4 votes
Clyde Drexler = 4 votes
Gary Payton = 4 votes
Jason Kidd = 4 votes



The List:
The List Thread (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635088)

The List:
1. Michael Jordan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631361)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631585)
3. Wilt Chamberlain (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632046)
4. Magic Johnson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632690)
5. Bill Russell (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=632852)
6. Larry Bird (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633428)
7. Shaquille O'neal (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633751)
8. Kobe Bryant (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634022)
9. Hakeem Olajuwon (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634733)
10. Tim Duncan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635092)
11. Oscar Robertson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635506)
12. Moses Malone (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636033)
13. Jerry West (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636552)
14. Karl Malone (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=636998)
15. Julius Erving (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=637671)
16. David Robinson (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638526)
17. Charles Barkley (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639576)
18. John Stockton (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640285)
19. George Mikan (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641172)
20. Kevin Garnett (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641975)
21. LeBron James (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642511)
22. Dirk Nowitzki (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=643161)
23. Bob Pettit (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644031)
24. John Havlicek (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645330)
25. Elgin Baylor (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645990)
26. Dwyane Wade (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=646496)
27. Scottie Pippen (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647144)
28. Rick Barry (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648440)
29. Isiah Thomas (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649170)
30. Patrick Ewing (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649815)
31. Bob Cousy (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=650318)

Voting will now begin for the #32 NBA Player All Time

NOTE: Nominations will end now, we are going up to the top 50 all time which means 18 spots left and right now we have 29 options. So for the #50 spot we will have a list of 10 players which is a lot.


These are the players that can be voted for the #32 spot.

Willis Reed
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler
Dominique Wilkins
Sam Jones
Walt Frazier
Allen Iverson
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Wes Unseld
Dave Cowens
Bob Mcadoo
Bill Walton
George Gervin
Kevin McHale
James Worthy
Reggie Miller
Elvin Hayes
Dolph Schayes
Nate Thurmond
Shawn Kemp
Alonzo Mourning
Kevin Johnson
Jerry Lucas
Robert Parish
Nate Thurmond
Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol
Artis Gilmore
Hal Greer

JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 12:17 PM
Vote: Clyde Drexler (Led the Blazers to the finals mulitple times as the man, led team to 57+ wins for 3 years in a row. Also led a championship team in Win Shares in the season (once you add up his total win shares that year) and in the playoffs.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 12:22 PM
vote: later, there are several players that can be arguedhere ( mchale, frazier, Clyde,Thurmond, Hayes) and want to hear people make their cases.

Nominate, Lenny Wilkens

Chacarron
09-08-2011, 12:30 PM
I voted Clyde Drexler. He is a top 3 SG of all-time, career averages of 20.4 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.0 SPG while shooting an efficient 47.2% from the field.

Career PER of 21.1, WS/148 of 0.173. Multiple All-NBA and All-Star appearances.

He is an excellent player who I think was highly underrated in these polls.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 12:34 PM
OK, now somone tell me, why should i vote Clyde over Walt or Mchale that are the options who i am leaning to vote here.
I fyou convince me i may vote him

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:36 PM
Going with the Walts again.

Vote: Walt Frazier
Nominate: Walt Bellamy

JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 12:54 PM
OK, now somone tell me, why should i vote Clyde over Walt or Mchale that are the options who i am leaning to vote here.
I fyou convince me i may vote him

Why Mchale over Drexler? Drexler did much more as the man than Mchale did.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Once again, Gary Payton.

pd7631
09-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Nominate: Chris Webber and Billy Cunningham (I don't know if I'm allowed to nominate two, but whatever)

mightybosstone
09-08-2011, 01:15 PM
Bill Walton. You can make an argument for a lot of guys at this point and longevity certainly doesn't do Walton any favors, but he had a couple of unbelievable seasons in 77 and 78 in which he posted ridiculous numbers (19, 14, 4 and 4; 19,13, 5 and 3), won a championship, a Finals MVP and league MVP. If it wasn't for injuries, Walton might be in the discussion as one of the four or five greatest centers of all time. And while the longevity isn't there, I think he might have had a better stretch in those two seasons than anyone else on this list.

Granted, I did not do a ton of research for this one, but if you were to ask me to take one player for one stretch of their careers and start a team with the goal of winning a championship, I'd take those two Walton seasons over anyone else left.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 01:16 PM
Why Mchale over Drexler? Drexler did much more as the man than Mchale did.

Mchale never had the chance and you cant blame him for being drafted to a team that has Bird.

He mamanged to be a key piece in THREE rings, and you could easily make a case for him being a top 3-5 power foward ever.
He was consistent in both sides of the floor.

He is up there with Pipp and Worhty as some of the best TRUE second options out there.

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 01:19 PM
I'll vote for Walt Frazier at this slot

Chronz
09-08-2011, 01:36 PM
Why Mchale over Drexler? Drexler did much more as the man than Mchale did.
What years are you focusing on? Couldnt the counterargument be that McHale did much more as the 2nd best player of his team?

NYKalltheway
09-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Walt then Drexler then McHale/Hayes... 10 spots late though

NYKalltheway
09-08-2011, 01:39 PM
I voted Clyde Drexler. He is a top 3 SG of all-time, career averages of 20.4 PPG, 6.1 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.0 SPG while shooting an efficient 47.2% from the field.

Career PER of 21.1, WS/148 of 0.173. Multiple All-NBA and All-Star appearances.

He is an excellent player who I think was highly underrated in these polls.

Top 3 SG huh? Does that mean you accept the
1) Michael Jordan
2) Jerry West
3) Clyde Drexler
ranking?
:cool:

Chacarron
09-08-2011, 01:52 PM
Top 3 SG huh? Does that mean you accept the
1) Michael Jordan
2) Jerry West
3) Clyde Drexler
ranking?
:cool:

Not necessarily. Jordan is 1, then come West, Clyde and Kobe in no particular order. In my opinion there is no clear cut number 2, 3 or 4 SG of all-time.

NYKalltheway
09-08-2011, 01:54 PM
you said 3rd, I'll just assume you meant it the way I said it :D
Add Gervin to that and make it 5, though #2 is clearly Jerry West imo

JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 01:55 PM
What years are you focusing on? Couldnt the counterargument be that McHale did much more as the 2nd best player of his team?

No. Drexler led a championship team in Win Shares in 1995. He had the most win shares in the playoffs and when you add up his win shares on the season he had the most as well on his team.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Not necessarily. Jordan is 1, then come West, Clyde and Kobe in no particular order. In my opinion there is no clear cut number 2, 3 or 4 SG of all-time.

:laugh2: NYKalltheway got you, you contradicted yourself a bit.

Geargo Wallace
09-08-2011, 01:56 PM
nominate Marvin Barnes :)

Chacarron
09-08-2011, 01:56 PM
you said 3rd, I'll just assume you meant it the way I said it :D
Add Gervin to that and make it 5, though #2 is clearly Jerry West imo

Because Drexler has an argument for top 3, like Kobe and West. I would go Jordan, West, Kobe and Drexler but I know others think differently.

PatsSoxKnicks
09-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Well I see my cries for Walt Frazier are no longer falling on deaf ears.

For like the 6th poll in a row, I voted Walt.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 02:12 PM
nominate Marvin Barnes :)

Marvin "bad News" Marvin?

Are you serious?

Chronz
09-08-2011, 02:22 PM
No. Drexler led a championship team in Win Shares in 1995. He had the most win shares in the playoffs and when you add up his win shares on the season he had the most as well on his team.
And McHale beat Drexler in terms of WS on a championship team as well.

mightybosstone
09-08-2011, 03:06 PM
I noticed that no one even acknowledged my Bill Walton case. Is it that unbelievable that he could get a serious look here?

JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 03:09 PM
I noticed that no one even acknowledged my Bill Walton case. Is it that unbelievable that he could get a serious look here?

He can and I agree, he gave Portland it's only title in franchise history and won league and finals mvp. Pretty much like Dirk but not as long a prime.

ShakeN'Bake
09-08-2011, 03:11 PM
For me its between Frazier, Drexler, and McHale...tough choice, but I think I should go with Clyde the Glide

Chronz
09-08-2011, 03:56 PM
I noticed that no one even acknowledged my Bill Walton case. Is it that unbelievable that he could get a serious look here?
No player encompasses the Longevity vs PEAK argument more than Walton, and in extreme cases like him there is no universal standing. Ive seen some lists where hes gone as early as Top25, BS ranked him 27 and Elliot Kalb had him at 37 in 2004.

Shortened careers are hard to judge, would you rather have Bill Walton/Willis Reed for the few years where they were arguably the best players in the game, or would you take Elvin Hayes for 50000 minutes?

KnicksorBust
09-08-2011, 04:36 PM
Frazier. He was the best defensive guard of the NBA for almost a decade. He was the best player on two championship teams. Repeatedly came up big in big situations. Effecient scorer and top passer. He checks all the boxes for me.

Geargo Wallace
09-08-2011, 05:22 PM
Marvin "bad News" Marvin?

Are you serious?

Nope, but hopefully some ppl googled some of his awesome stories!

mightybosstone
09-08-2011, 05:33 PM
For the record, while I chose Walton, I have no problem with Frazier going here or Clyde (I'm a Rockets' fan, so of course I love the guy as long as this isn't a list based on broadcasting skills). I'm not quite as crazy about AI or Payton. Maybe it's the lack of a championship or the fact that they were never really in the top 2-3 players in the league when they played, but I would put them lower. In fact, maybe it's just me, but I would put Kidd and Nash ahead of AI and Payton. :shrug:

Hustlenomics
09-08-2011, 06:48 PM
-Big East Rookie of the Year award
-2X Big East Defensive Player of the Year
-First team AP All-American, 1996
-97 Rookie Of The Year
-97 Rookie Game MVP
-97 All Rookie First-Team
-7 x All-NBA Selection
-3 x steals champion(01,02,03)
-4 x NBA Scoring Champion(99,01,02,05)
-11 x NBA All-Star
-2 x NBA All-Star Game MVP(01,05)
-2001 NBA MVP
-1983 Career Steals (12th all-time)
-5624 Career Assists(4th Actively)
-24,368 Career Points in just 914 games played (17th all-time)
-One of only 5 players in NBA History to average at least 30 ppg and 8 apg in a season
-Career Average of 2.2 SPG(7th all-time)
-Career Average of 6.2 APG
-Career Average of 26.7 PPG(6th all-time)
-5 Consecutive games of 40+ points as a rookie
-Playoff Steal record
-Became fifth player ever to make an average of 30 points and seven assists in a season


VOTE: ALLEN IVERSON

Chronz
09-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Copy and paste is your friend

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Nope, but hopefully some ppl googled some of his awesome stories!

Next time vote for the one and only Chocolate Thunder from Lovetron.

LAKERMANIA
09-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Top 3 SG huh? Does that mean you accept the
1) Michael Jordan
2) Jerry West
3) Clyde Drexler
ranking?
:cool:

:pity:

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 08:50 PM
No player encompasses the Longevity vs PEAK argument more than Walton, and in extreme cases like him there is no universal standing. Ive seen some lists where hes gone as early as Top25, BS ranked him 27 and Elliot Kalb had him at 37 in 2004.

Shortened careers are hard to judge, would you rather have Bill Walton/Willis Reed for the few years where they were arguably the best players in the game, or would you take Elvin Hayes for 50000 minutes?

Obviously we are here supposedly rting CAREERS not peaks.

If were rating peaks the list woudl look way differnet i mean, you can argue that walton peaks is top 15, and you coudl argue a Grant HIll into a top 25 peak.
Then i woudl go and trhow in Alex groza in the top 25 probably.

Geargo Wallace
09-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Next time vote for the one and only Chocolate Thunder from Lovetron.

I ainít getting on no time machine

Chronz
09-08-2011, 09:56 PM
Obviously we are here supposedly rting CAREERS not peaks.
Your not getting it, Peak and Longevity go into determining a players career. You have to make the decision in which to value more in several comparisons. For example do you take Robert Parish and his 20 Year Career OR do you take Willis Reed/Dave Cowens and their shorter but more dominant Primes?

Since definitions can get lost in translation Ill use the universal language:

CAREER = PEAK+LONGEVITY


If were rating peaks the list woudl look way differnet i mean, you can argue that walton peaks is top 15, and you coudl argue a Grant HIll into a top 25 peak.
Then i woudl go and trhow in Alex groza in the top 25 probably.

Too little information on Groza and too weak of an era anyways and youd be surprised how low Hill would rank.

mightybosstone
09-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Obviously we are here supposedly rting CAREERS not peaks.

If were rating peaks the list woudl look way differnet i mean, you can argue that walton peaks is top 15, and you coudl argue a Grant HIll into a top 25 peak.
Then i woudl go and trhow in Alex groza in the top 25 probably.

I couldn't disagree more. This is not a vote for "No. 32 NBA career of all time." This is "No. 32 NBA PLAYER of all time." If I'm making a list of the top 10 centers, Walton is on that list, and I think he belongs somewhere in the top 40 NBA players of all time. The dude was an MVP and a Finals MVP in his first four seasons, after which injuries pretty much ruined the rest of his career. There are few players who have accomplished that feat, and even fewer to do it so early in their careers.

LakersIn5
09-09-2011, 01:16 AM
the results of the poll should be hidden until the poll is closed. for the nth time iverson will finish 2nd. people just vote on the player that competes with iverson in votes.

Hellcrooner
09-09-2011, 01:29 AM
Now, i think i found the right image to portray my position regarding AI.


AI is to Music what Kiss is to Rock ( and im a kiss fan if someone is wondering).

Kiss is perceived as one of the best rock bands ever, but that perception is based on image, on publicity whilst their abilities and music are GOOD but not great.

And of couse their act is so polarizing and the publicity/image influence is that great that their hardcore fans would punch you for suggesting they are not the best ever.

mightybosstone
09-09-2011, 01:52 AM
the results of the poll should be hidden until the poll is closed. for the nth time iverson will finish 2nd. people just vote on the player that competes with iverson in votes.

Is it that, or is it that people who do no research and just like AI keep voting for him? Because I'm pretty sure that anyone who does some decent research will found out pretty quick how unworthy AI is at this spot. Once we're in the high 30's, low 40's MAYBE we can get into the Iverson discussion.

LakersIn5
09-09-2011, 02:17 AM
^okay then once walt frazier wins this poll who would you vote for #33 then? say it as early as now so that i can believe you that you are not voting against A.I. because you might say you gonna vote for drexler next but in the next poll ai is winning and at 2nd place is payton then you will change your vote to payton just so that iverson doesnt win.

Chronz
09-09-2011, 03:01 AM
^okay then once walt frazier wins this poll who would you vote for #33 then? say it as early as now so that i can believe you that you are not voting against A.I. because you might say you gonna vote for drexler next but in the next poll ai is winning and at 2nd place is payton then you will change your vote to payton just so that iverson doesnt win.
So?

LakersIn5
09-09-2011, 07:23 AM
so? then you guys are really just hating on A.I that instead of just voting on the player you guys think deserve it you guys vote against A.I just so he loses. pathetic.

Chronz
09-09-2011, 01:42 PM
so? then you guys are really just hating on A.I that instead of just voting on the player you guys think deserve it you guys vote against A.I just so he loses. pathetic.
Only if you believe going for superior players is hating. I consider hating when people are going against AI just so that a bum player gets chosen ahead of him.

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 02:07 PM
^okay then once walt frazier wins this poll who would you vote for #33 then? say it as early as now so that i can believe you that you are not voting against A.I. because you might say you gonna vote for drexler next but in the next poll ai is winning and at 2nd place is payton then you will change your vote to payton just so that iverson doesnt win.

Payton made the finals as the man as well and led a team to 55 wins for 6 seasons in a row.

Cano4prez
09-09-2011, 02:12 PM
^okay then once walt frazier wins this poll who would you vote for #33 then? say it as early as now so that i can believe you that you are not voting against A.I. because you might say you gonna vote for drexler next but in the next poll ai is winning and at 2nd place is payton then you will change your vote to payton just so that iverson doesnt win.

And what if you think both Payton and Drexler are better than AI?

LakersIn5
09-10-2011, 03:54 AM
^then vote for the player you think is better between payton and drexler not the player who has the closest votes with AI

naps
09-10-2011, 05:10 AM
the results of the poll should be hidden until the poll is closed. for the nth time iverson will finish 2nd. people just vote on the player that competes with iverson in votes.

Yea, it's ****EN sickening! He can't finish 2nd for so many times and not get the spot. I mean how many times can you keep finishing 2nd? It clearly shows many people are just voting the player who is close to AI in votes just so AI doesn't get it. :pity::pity:

NYKalltheway
09-10-2011, 05:23 AM
Hopefully Drexler manages to get voted next. 10 spots late these past 3-4 votings

Swashcuff
09-10-2011, 07:50 AM
Hopefully Drexler manages to get voted next. 10 spots late these past 3-4 votings

I think he may be the direction I'll be headed next as well. I'd also put him ahead of a couple of those voted already as well.

Hellcrooner
09-10-2011, 04:50 PM
drexler will probably be next, imo deserves it much more thna payton, who i sincerely dont get why is being voted over a good bunch of names on the list.

Chronz
09-10-2011, 05:24 PM
Yea, it's ****EN sickening! He can't finish 2nd for so many times and not get the spot. I mean how many times can you keep finishing 2nd? It clearly shows many people are just voting the player who is close to AI in votes just so AI doesn't get it. :pity::pity:

Why can't he keep finishing 2nd if its the same people voting for him?

Chacarron
09-10-2011, 05:35 PM
Since Walt Frazier is sure to be voted #32, I'll keep voting for Drexler.

KnicksorBust
09-10-2011, 06:33 PM
How many times has Iverson been voted second?

Chronz
09-10-2011, 06:48 PM
How many times has Iverson been voted second?

He may finally finish 3rd if enough smart people vote.

mightybosstone
09-10-2011, 09:25 PM
^okay then once walt frazier wins this poll who would you vote for #33 then? say it as early as now so that i can believe you that you are not voting against A.I. because you might say you gonna vote for drexler next but in the next poll ai is winning and at 2nd place is payton then you will change your vote to payton just so that iverson doesnt win.


so? then you guys are really just hating on A.I that instead of just voting on the player you guys think deserve it you guys vote against A.I just so he loses. pathetic.

I'm not "hating on AI." I honestly don't believe he is the best player left. I would rather go with Walton, Drexler, Reed, McHale, Nash and Kidd.