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View Full Version : '11 Jays- Cheddar or Swiss Cheese?



passengershawn
09-08-2011, 12:38 AM
Cheddar- when not referring to actual cheese, refers to money, wealth, luxury. When thinking of MLB teams that fit the 'cheddar' label, you tend to think of;
Yanks
Phillies
Red Sox
Braves
Cards

Basically the teams that spend well, AND produce in the standings.

Swiss Cheese- these would be the teams with holes in, around and all over them...think;
Mets
Orioles
Astros
Mariners
Jays?

With what started out as an optimistic season of growth for the Jays, for many parts, has turned into a series of question marks heading into the off-season. I, for one, thought this would be a huge season of growth and opportunities for young Jays to work out some kinks, and for the team to really take shape for '12. We all knew we needed a bonifide closer, and we all knew we needed a legit DH bat behind Bautista. But what about the other glaring holes that are showing their ugly head?

SP
Outside of Romero, there's not much to get excited about for '12, except maybe Alvarez...but 3-4 career starts isn't much to get too hyped about. Cecil, Morrow and Drabek have all fallen backwards in their development, and even Ricky has troubles against the elite in the league.

RP
2011 has been a complete disaster for the bullpen...save for Janzen and Litsch. Carlos V has been pretty solid during his time there, and should be a key element in '12. But we have no legit lefty specialists...no set-up guy...no closer...and not much in the system ready to take that role next year, unless McGowan can be groomed as the closer (which I think they should try if they can't land Papelbon or Bell). Rauch, Frankie F, Camp, Lewis all need to go. Perez MIGHT be a decent lefty guy...but I've not been impressed thus far...but he/s young and there's room to grow. This bullpen needs a complete overhaul...which can happen in a MLB off-season!

2B, DH, CF
Hill was almost to the point of being useless...Johnson has not been that far behind. Barring a severe outburst from Kelly Johnson in the final 20 games...his time is T.O. will be officially over Sept. 29th. EE, like last year, has put up a big 2nd half...but I just don't think you can count on him to be the everday productive DH (plus avg...30+ HR...100+ RBI). And as good a deal it was for a high ceiling player like Rasmus...I'm just not sold on him. I think his best years will be .270 25 doubles 85 runs 20 HR 60 RBI 15 SB .330 OBA. Not bad #'s...but not the ideal leadoff guy we REALLY need (can you say Reyes @ 2B!!).
That's some major holes to patch up in an off-season IF the plan is to contend in '12. Playing in the East, we'll need approx. 95 wins to grab the wildcard (92+ for the 2nd wildcard if that motion passes).

What do you think about the '11 off-season Jays...are they aging nicely and ready to become solid cheddar...or are they regular swiss-cheese with too many holes and only good for a Subway 6 inch sandwich?

craigerlee
09-08-2011, 12:49 AM
Do you really need to create a new thread every time you want to go on rant about what's wrong with this team?

2009mvp
09-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Now who in their right mind groups the Jays with the O's, Mets, and Astros?

nithanyo
09-08-2011, 01:03 AM
I think we are swiss cheese. We've got a lot of holes.

We need an upgrade at 2B and 1B. We have holes at the setup and closer positions. Most importantly we have holes throughout our entire rotation.

You're absolutely right about the pitching. Romero is the only starter who should be guaranteed a job and even he struggles with the elite teams of the AL east. Morrow is as consistent as eric thames' facial hair. Cecils 87mph is batting practice for the yankees and red sox. Alvarez is exciting to watch but growing pains is to be excited. I don't even think we have a set #5.

Offensively were pretty solid. An upgrade at first and second is all we need.

Pitching wise were a joke

ILDD
09-08-2011, 09:46 AM
There are holes, sure, but not unfixable with one good offseason.

Sign Kelly Johnson and you have upgraded 2B, sign Prince Fielder and you have an elite 1B. With those 2 moves the whole line-up looks like a well-balanced hitting group with good defence.

Sign Yu Darvish and the rotation is (potentially) Romero, Darvish, Morrow, Alvarez & McGowan - all good young starters.

Sign a couple of relievers (Matt Capps & Darren Oliver) and you fix the bullpen.

Team payroll sits at about $120M and you have a contending team.

nithanyo
09-08-2011, 10:05 AM
There are holes, sure, but not unfixable with one good offseason.

Sign Kelly Johnson and you have upgraded 2B, sign Prince Fielder and you have an elite 1B. With those 2 moves the whole line-up looks like a well-balanced hitting group with good defence.

Sign Yu Darvish and the rotation is (potentially) Romero, Darvish, Morrow, Alvarez & McGowan - all good young starters.

Sign a couple of relievers (Matt Capps & Darren Oliver) and you fix the bullpen.

Team payroll sits at about $120M and you have a contending team.

That would only put us at around 85-90 mill. Unless Capps and Oliver cost sabathia money. Darvish isn't going to get more than 15 per season.

ILDD
09-08-2011, 10:12 AM
That would only put us at around 85-90 mill. Unless Capps and Oliver cost sabathia money. Darvish isn't going to get more than 15 per season.

My bad, I counted Darvish twice - payroll would be $100M - $105M

nithanyo
09-08-2011, 10:15 AM
My bad, I counted Darvish twice - payroll would be $100M - $105M

Don't worry we can use the rest of the money on Prince:D

the_jon
09-08-2011, 04:07 PM
Kelly Johnson is a pretty solid second basemen. There aren't many either so I'd rather try to address our other holes first. Pitching first and foremost, I think the offense will be fine no matter what.

es0terik
09-08-2011, 09:23 PM
Yes. When Kelly Johnson is your worst player, you know you're doing something very very right.

wagnall
09-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Is Johnson a FA after this year and what may he want to stay, if thats what the team does. Does his price go down if his stats go down by the end of the season.

darth helmet
09-09-2011, 04:18 PM
I think the Jays are more like the Havarti with Jalepeno's because a) I love that cheese and b) it's got some kick to it that you just have to appreciate.

wagnall
09-09-2011, 04:56 PM
Ya we have holes to fill. 1st, 2nd [unless we go with Johnson but how much will he want and are there any others that are proven every year at a higher cost}, and I still don't know whose playing LF next year. Snider deserves another crack at it, Thames's bat is strong but suspect def. as are many OF's with a bat, Davis, keep as bench player.

Do we even consider Gose before 2013 as I see Baut , Gose CF and Ras in LF.

As for pitching, after Romero seems 2 -5 could be any number of guys, and the BP with Vill., Perez, Janssen, after that I'm stumped. Would like to get Venters from Atlanta.

We're kind of like Gouda with holes

wamco
09-09-2011, 07:19 PM
the cheese that is filled with crumbs that the sox/yanks don't want.