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View Full Version : Is it possible for Dwight Howard to be a top 10 Center All Time?



JordansBulls
09-07-2011, 03:14 PM
Here are 10 names here:

Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Wilt
Ewing
Robinson
Moses
Mikan
Walton


Then you have Mutombo, Mourning, Reed, Gilmore to name a few more.


Ultimately among all time Centers where do you see Dwight ending up?

Hellcrooner
09-07-2011, 03:15 PM
yes, with some work on his offensive ability.

tcav701
09-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Top 6 is reachable

Bruno
09-07-2011, 03:21 PM
I think he could finish in the top 8-10.

I don't see him passing:
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Dream
Robinson
Malone
*Mikan (so hard to compare).

SteBO
09-07-2011, 03:35 PM
I think he could finish in the top 8-10.

I don't see him passing:
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Dream
Robinson
Malone
*Mikan (so hard to compare).
Agreed completely here. Still very early though obviously.

The_Jamal
09-07-2011, 03:39 PM
very much so. He's got plenty of time to win a ring (Shaq didn't get one till he was 29) and already has quite a few accolades with the all-star appearances+ DPOY's. He needs some help to get some real recognition though; every one of the Centers had a brilliant supporting cast around them

phantasyyy
09-07-2011, 03:46 PM
He very well could due to the fact that year in and year out he will be rewarded the DPOY and I believe that he will become the only player in NBA history with 5+ DPOYS.

As well, the strides he made in his offensive game i think will only continue to get better and he will find a way to either force himself onto a championship contender or pair up with an all-star team-mate in order to gain at least 1 ring before his career his over. All in all, i do believe that by the end of Dwight's career his resume will be as impressive as some of the top C's of all time

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 03:47 PM
PREDICTING DWIGHT HOWARD'S PLACE IN HISTORY


I recently started a thread on an Orlando Magic message board asking fans where they think Dwight Howard will rank amongst the all-time greats once he finishes his career. Obviously it's impossible to know for sure - there are too many unknowns such as potential championships... or potential injuries. However, it still led to some interesting discussion.


The range of responses were typically diverse. In order from best to worst-case scenarios, here are some of the predictions from Magic fans:

- Top 10 if he wins 3+ championships.
- Similar ranking to Moses Malone (who is 14th on my all-time list).
- Top 25 if he wins a ring or two.
- Top 40 if he continues collecting DPOTY awards.
- Top 50... but no higher due to limited offensive game.

So what did we learn here (other than some Magic fans - like all passionate fans - are massively biased)?

Well, firstly, the assumption is that Dwight Howard will win more Defensive Player of the Year awards than anyone in NBA history. That has to count for something. With 3 DPOTY awards, he is already just one away from tying Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo's record of 4 awards each. He has more DPOTY awards than Alonzo Mourning, Dennis Rodman, Sidney Moncrief and Hakeem Olajuwon, each of whom have 2 awards, let alone Michael Jordan, Kevin Garnett, David Robinson and others who have just 1 awards each.

(Interestingly, a well-respected basketball junkie recently did some research and estimated that Bill Russell would have won ten DPOTY awards if they had been given out during his career, which is yet another reason why he is ranked so high on my all-time rankings).

Howard is just 25-years-old. Last season, he received 114 out of a possible 120 votes for Defensive Player of the Year. Unless Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo break the 3spg barrier or someone like Javale McGee goes ballistic, the award is Howard's for the foreseeable future.

Of course, the dearth of talented centers in the League is one reason why Howard's trophy cabinet is growing so rapidly. He is almost guaranteed All-League 1st Team honours and a starting role for the Eastern Conference All-Stars every season. It almost seems a little unfair.

Things might be very different if Howard's career coincided with those of Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing. Perhaps things will be different in a few years if Andre Drummond and Jonas Valanciunas live up to the hype.

One criticism of Howard is that he lacks a polished offensive game. It is well known amongst NBA fans that Howard spent the 2010 off-season working with Olajuwon to develop his post moves. Currently, Howard relies a little too much on his athleticism and strength. Then again, so did Shaquille O'Neal, and it didn't stop him from winning four championships.

What will separate Howard from the likes of Ewing and other big men is championship success. He came close in 2009, leading the Magic to the Finals before losing to the Los Angeles Lakers 4-1. Howard was just 23-years-old at the time. Big men typically develop later than guards and forwards, so it was a particularly impressive feat.

"That's been my goal and my mission since I've been in the NBA - to win a championship", declared Howard in June 2011. That same month, he rejected a contract extension with the Magic and, in doing so, opted for free agency next summer.

Howard is a strong candidate for Most Valuable Player this coming season (assuming there even is a season), especially in a contract year. If he finds a way to team up with Chris Paul or another superstar the following year, then I see no reason he can't go on to be regarded as one of the all-time great centers.

My prediction? Top 25 of all-time... with the lack of quality opposing centers forever held against him.

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/predicting-dwight-howards-place-in.html

krisxsong
09-07-2011, 03:49 PM
CAN Dwight be an all-time top 10 Center?

Yes. He has the size, strength, quickness, athleticism to do so.

Ebbs
09-07-2011, 03:52 PM
I would argue he is already top 12 so saying he has 6ish solid years in front of him one ship + 1 MVP would certainly lock it up for me

JasonJohnHorn
09-07-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm already ready to put him in above Mikan (oooh... tall white dude can beat short white dude... very impressive), Bill "my foot hurts" Walton (sorry Bill, you had a couple great seasons, but longevity and duration of greatness has to count for something, otherwise Ralph Sampson would be the GOAT) and I-need-to-take-four-steps-to-get-my-shot-off Ewing (WHY DID THEY NEVER CALL A TRAVEL ON THAT GUY!!!!!!)!!!!!!!

As for Moses... Howard would really have to turn his O game into something special for me to put him over Moses. As for the rest of the guys on the list, I've seen what Howard can do, and he ain't never going to touch them.

so top ten? Sure. Top five? Never gonna happen.

naps
09-07-2011, 04:42 PM
I certainly don't see him passing the following guys.

KAJ
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Dream
Robinson
Malone

So he'll be in the top 10 for sure if he stays healthy. But no top 5.

mightybosstone
09-07-2011, 04:44 PM
I think he has the potential to possibly tie or surpass Moses (who I personally would rank ahead of Ewing and Robinson), but I think he has to win a title to crack those guys. With one title or MVP, I'd put him right behind Moses. With two, I think he'd surpass Moses, but I don't think he has the offensive chops to reach Shaq or Hakeem. I think he'll get at least on championship or MVP, in which case, my list would be (off the top of my head):

1. Kareem
2. Russell
3. Hakeem
4. Wilt
5. Shaq
6. Moses
7. Dwight
8. Robinson
9. Ewing
10. Walton

I think it's harder to judge Dwight because there aren't as many dominant centers in his era. But he's without a doubt the most dominant center of this era and I don't see anyone coming along to challenge him. I think that's also what hurts Robinson and Ewing on my list. Not only were the not the best centers, but they were both beaten on the biggest stage by Dream.

Shmontaine
09-07-2011, 04:47 PM
yes, with some work on his offensive ability.

a ring or two would do it.... :D

bmd1101
09-07-2011, 07:11 PM
Here are 10 names here:

Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Wilt
Ewing
Robinson
Moses
Mikan
Walton


Then you have Mutombo, Mourning, Reed, Gilmore to name a few more.


Ultimately among all time Centers where do you see Dwight ending up?

He definitely has the ability to leapfrog atleast past Ewing imo, he needs some help though. If he keeps collecting DPOY's, adds a chip or 2, and an MVP or more chips + an MVP and hes right there. He needs more offensive work and better players around him. Give him a sick supporting cast near that of the guys in the top 5 or so you listed, and he could go much higher.

llemon
09-07-2011, 08:16 PM
Possible? Yes.

5ass
09-07-2011, 08:39 PM
I think Dwight can be top 5, even though I don't think he will. Last season, his performance was as good as shaqs in his prime. I don't care what stats u give me. I know shaquille was a better passer and better offensively (even though he took a lot more shots than Dwight) and faced better competition, but IMO Dwight is a better rebounder, better individual defender (dont forget Shaquille struggled to guard the pick and roll), and he doesn't miss games unlike Shaquille.

naps
09-07-2011, 09:10 PM
I think Dwight can be top 5, even though I don't think he will. Last season, his performance was as good as shaqs in his prime. I don't care what stats u give me. I know shaquille was a better passer and better offensively (even though he took a lot more shots than Dwight) and faced better competition, but IMO Dwight is a better rebounder, better individual defender (dont forget Shaquille struggled to guard the pick and roll), and he doesn't miss games unlike Shaquille.

Alright, that ends the discussion here. I stopped reading there.

I can tell you were not lucky enough to watch a prime Shaq. There is no one in the history I would take over Shaq in their primes, well, except the prime GOAT. Now go figure where Dwight's last season stands.

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 09:16 PM
I think Dwight can be top 5, even though I don't think he will. Last season, his performance was as good as shaqs in his prime. I don't care what stats u give me. I know shaquille was a better passer and better offensively (even though he took a lot more shots than Dwight) and faced better competition, but IMO Dwight is a better rebounder, better individual defender (dont forget Shaquille struggled to guard the pick and roll), and he doesn't miss games unlike Shaquille.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

The fact that you say you don't care what stats are given as well shows your ignorance and the fact that you should not even be a part of this debate.

GREATNESS ONE
09-07-2011, 09:22 PM
You never know, anything can happen. He might wake up and be on a team capable of winning multiple titles. Dwight's skill set is phenomenal and his career is still very young.

tredigs
09-07-2011, 09:24 PM
I think he could finish in the top 8-10.

I don't see him passing:
KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Dream
Robinson
Malone
*Mikan (so hard to compare).

Forgetting anyone? ...

b@llhog24
09-07-2011, 10:39 PM
Forgetting anyone? ...

Lol Mr. Bill Russel

5ass
09-07-2011, 10:58 PM
I stand by what I say, not talking numbers, but performance interms of Impact and dominance[/U], no doubt. Which infact is why dwight draws so much comparisons to shaq. No player in the league can comtain Dwight, he can outmuscle any player in the league same was for shaq. Maybe u should learn to read the rest of the post before u judge. "Stopped reading here" his old and stupid, look:
Garnett is the highest paid player in the NBA next season (if u stopped here I would be lying to you, but if u continue reading), excluding Kobe Bryant. (see now it all makes sense) ;)

If only people learn to read...

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 11:02 PM
I stand by what I say, not talking numbers, but performance interms of impact and dominance, no doubt. Which infact is why dwight draws so much comparisons to shaq. No player in the league can comtain Dwight, he can outmuscle any player in the league same was for shaq. Maybe u should learn to read the rest of the post before u judge. "Stopped reading here" his old and stupid, look:
Garnett is the highest paid player in the NBA next season (if u stopped here I would be lying to you, but if u continue reading), excluding Kobe Bryant. (see now it all makes sense) ;)

Prime Shaq could NEVER be contained NEVER.

When Jason Collins is used as an effective ploy to contain any player there is NO way he can be compared to prime Shaq. NO WAY!

Chuck Hayes also out muscles Dwight Howard.

5ass
09-07-2011, 11:06 PM
Prime Shaq could NEVER be contained NEVER.

When Jason Collins is used as an effective ploy to contain any player there is NO way he can be compared to prime Shaq. NO WAY!

Chuck Hayes also out muscles Dwight Howard.

Jason Collins is underrated, 1st of all.
2nd of all, lol effective? Ya Dwight averaged 28-16 in that series on like 64% shooting.

Bruno
09-07-2011, 11:16 PM
Forgetting anyone? ...

thanks

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 11:16 PM
Jason Collins is underrated, 1st of all.
2nd of all, lol effective? Ya Dwight averaged 28-16 in that series on like 64% shooting.

Wait?

Weren't you the one who said that you're not talking stats?

Why bring up Pts, Rebs and FG% when you're not talking stats? :eyebrow:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201103300ATL.html

20 and 3 rebounds. 3 rebounds in an entire game for Dwight Howard?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012200ATL.html

19 and 20 on 6-14 from the field

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012060ORL.html

14 and 13 with 6 turnovers

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201011080ORL.html

27 and 11 his one good showing.

If we go past last season however. Diwght has always had his struggles against Jason Collins.

Do you know what Shaquille O'Neal did against Jason Collins? He SLAUGHTERED him.

Dwight is NO where near as dominant as prime Shaq.

naps
09-07-2011, 11:28 PM
Wait?

Weren't you the one who said that you're not talking stats?

Why bring up Pts, Rebs and FG% when you're not talking stats? :eyebrow:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201103300ATL.html

20 and 3 rebounds. 3 rebounds in an entire game for Dwight Howard?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012200ATL.html

19 and 20 on 6-14 from the field

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012060ORL.html

14 and 13 with 6 turnovers

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201011080ORL.html

27 and 11 his one good showing.

If we go past last season however. Diwght has always had his struggles against Jason Collins.

Do you know what Shaquille O'Neal did against Jason Collins? He SLAUGHTERED him.

Dwight is NO where near as dominant as prime Shaq.

That dude is not worth to be responded. This is probably the most laughable claim I have seen in a long long time. Dwight is as good as a Prime Shaq...WOW!

Fresno
09-07-2011, 11:29 PM
Jason Collins is underrated, 1st of all.
2nd of all, lol effective? Ya Dwight averaged 28-16 in that series on like 64% shooting.

Shaq in his rookie season was better than Dwight in his 7th season.

You really cant be serious.

Dwight dominates this era because of the lack of quality of C's. Nobody is saying he isnt the best C in the NBA, but lets not act like hes something dominant like Shaq was.

5ass
09-07-2011, 11:33 PM
Wait?

Weren't you the one who said that you're not talking stats?

Why bring up Pts, Rebs and FG% when you're not talking stats? :eyebrow:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201103300ATL.html

20 and 3 rebounds. 3 rebounds in an entire game for Dwight Howard?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012200ATL.html

19 and 20 on 6-14 from the field

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201012060ORL.html

14 and 13 with 6 turnovers

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201011080ORL.html

27 and 11 his one good showing.

If we go past last season however. Diwght has always had his struggles against Jason Collins.

Do you know what Shaquille O'Neal did against Jason Collins? He SLAUGHTERED him.

Dwight is NO where near as dominant as prime Shaq.
Yes I said no stats when comparing shaq to Dwight bcz of the other stuff that Dwight does which don't show up on the stat sheet, like Dwight for example is much better at defending wings than shaq did. That doesn't mean I can't use stats to tell u DWIGHT DROPPED 48 points 16 rebounds on 16-23 ON COLLINS ***, a career high in points btw, and ur talking about Dwights struggles? For what one game? Everybody has bad games.

Hellcrooner
09-07-2011, 11:37 PM
Yes I said no stats when comparing shaq to Dwight bcz of the other stuff that Dwight does which don't show up on the stat sheet, like Dwight for example is much better at defending wings than shaq did. That doesn't mean I can't use stats to tell u DWIGHT DROPPED 48 points 16 rebounds on 16-23 ON COLLINS ***, a career high in points btw, and ur talking about Dwights struggles? For what one game? Everybody has bad games.

do you see shaq being manhandled by pau in an nba finals?

no?

end of the discusion.

ManningToTyree
09-07-2011, 11:40 PM
He can and will crack the top ten. He doesn't have any competition at his position what so ever, but thats not his fault.

Prime Shaq was the most dominant player I know of not named Jordan. Dwight is not even comparable. Prime Shaq would bully Howard on both ends of the floor.

5ass
09-07-2011, 11:42 PM
LOOK AT MY PREVIOUS POST I said in terms of DOMINANCE and IMPACT, yes I think Howard isn't too far off, as people are claiming.

5ass
09-07-2011, 11:44 PM
do you see shaq being manhandled by pau in an nba finals?

no?

end of the discusion.

What r u talking about? Pau is the GOAT, COW and SHEEP lol. No1 can touch him, best player EVER!;)

IndiansFan337
09-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Here are 10 names here:

Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Wilt
Ewing
Robinson
Moses
Mikan
Walton


Then you have Mutombo, Mourning, Reed, Gilmore to name a few more.


Ultimately among all time Centers where do you see Dwight ending up?

He's not right now, and I'd say he's at least 5 good years away from being near the top 10. It's very possible, but he's certainly not automatic.

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 11:49 PM
Yes I said no stats when comparing shaq to Dwight bcz of the other stuff that Dwight does which don't show up on the stat sheet, like Dwight for example is much better at defending wings than shaq did. That doesn't mean I can't use stats to tell u DWIGHT DROPPED 48 points 16 rebounds on 16-23 ON COLLINS ***, a career high in points btw, and ur talking about Dwights struggles? For what one game? Everybody has bad games.

Now isn't this the epitome of irony?

Dwight guard's wings? :speechless:

Wow then Dwight MUST be the greatest defensive player in the history of the NBA for him to be defending wings as well :rolleyes:

Your reason and your posts are garbage.

Shaquille O'Neal DOMINATED. You want to know what that means? That means using the triple team as a defensive ploy to attempt to contain him, a technique which failed more times than not. Team's planned for Shaq from day in to day out. Teams built their roster with the plan of putting the best cast of players who could possibly limit Shaq's dominance. And when it came to the big stage Shaq never got knocked out in the first round while having HCA.

Want to know what's the end all. Shaq Dominated everyone. From good to bad to all time great defensive players to indifferent. Who does Dwight do it against? Jason Collins? :rolleyes:

As for your defense argument think of something. Have 2011 Dwight guard Shaq MAN to MAN (the weak point in Howard's offense as he doesn't do too well when it comes time to get physical inside) for an entire game how do you think Dwight fares? Do you think he'd hold Shaq to under 20? Because this dominating impact in which you speak should at least be able to hold Shaq to under 20 points right?

llemon
09-07-2011, 11:55 PM
Now isn't this the epitome of irony?

Dwight guard's wings? :speechless:

Wow then Dwight MUST be the greatest defensive player in the history of the NBA for him to be defending wings as well :rolleyes:

Your reason and your posts are garbage.

Shaquille O'Neal DOMINATED. You want to know what that means? That means using the triple team as a defensive ploy to attempt to contain him, a technique which failed more times than not. Team's planned for Shaq from day in to day out. Teams built their roster with the plan of putting the best cast of players who could possibly limit Shaq's dominance. And when it came to the big stage Shaq never got knocked out in the first round while having HCA.

Want to know what's the end all. Shaq Dominated everyone. From good to bad to all time great defensive players to indifferent. Who does Dwight do it against? Jason Collins? :rolleyes:

As for your defense argument think of something. Have 2011 Dwight guard Shaq MAN to MAN (the weak point in Howard's offense as he doesn't do too well when it comes time to get physical inside) for an entire game how do you think Dwight fares? Do you think he'd hold Shaq to under 20? Because this dominating impact in which you speak should at least be able to hold Shaq to under 20 points right?

Dwight had a very tough time vs. Collins in the '11 playoffs

Swashcuff
09-07-2011, 11:59 PM
Dwight had a very tough time vs. Collins in the '11 playoffs

Are you talking about 8 points on 1-4 shooting and 8 rebounds?

5ass
09-08-2011, 12:05 AM
Now isn't this the epitome of irony?

Dwight guard's wings? :speechless:

Wow then Dwight MUST be the greatest defensive player in the history of the NBA for him to be defending wings as well :rolleyes:

Your reason and your posts are garbage.

Shaquille O'Neal DOMINATED. You want to know what that means? That means using the triple team as a defensive ploy to attempt to contain him, a technique which failed more times than not. Team's planned for Shaq from day in to day out. Teams built their roster with the plan of putting the best cast of players who could possibly limit Shaq's dominance. And when it came to the big stage Shaq never got knocked out in the first round while having HCA.

Want to know what's the end all. Shaq Dominated everyone. From good to bad to all time great defensive players to indifferent. Who does Dwight do it against? Jason Collins? :rolleyes:

As for your defense argument think of something. Have 2011 Dwight guard Shaq MAN to MAN (the weak point in Howard's offense as he doesn't do too well when it comes time to get physical inside) for an entire game how do you think Dwight fares? Do you think he'd hold Shaq to under 20? Because this dominating impact in which you speak should at least be able to hold Shaq to under 20 points right?
Lol even Hakeem would find it hard to hold shaq to under twenty in a game, so did mutombo and Wallace.
and yes Dwight switches to other players in the course of a game and guards wings sometimes, can u believe it?:facepalm:
Stop using words like garbage and ignorance when referring to my posts it makes u sound like a stuck up *****.
Learn to read well. I'll say it one more time, interns of dominance and impact the two can be compared. I never said play them one-on-one and see who wins. I said the way they both dominate is similar, and I admitted that the competition level wasn't the same.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:14 AM
Lol even Hakeem would find it hard to hold shaq to under twenty in a game, so did mutombo and Wallace.
and yes Dwight switches to other players in the course of a game and guards wings sometimes, can u believe it?:facepalm:
Stop using words like garbage and ignorance when referring to my posts it makes u sound like a stuck up *****.
Learn to read well. I'll say it one more time, interns of dominance and impact the two can be compared. I never said play them one-on-one and see who wins. I said the way they both dominate is similar, and I admitted that the competition level wasn't the same.

You said


Last season, his performance was as good as shaqs in his prime.

Now you're talking about you said in terms of impact and domincance they can be compared?

What is performance? Doesn't statistics reflect performance?

Why not compare them? If we're talking dominance and impact why not match the two of them at their peak against each other. Let's see how much impact Dwight has then. Do you really think when playing against a quality C Dwight would even think to attempt to "guard" a perimeter player (someone which he's atrocious at doing Chuck Hayes is better than him in that regard)?

HELL NO. As impactful as Dwight Howard is, IMO the ultimate impact player in the league today, he's only able to dominate the defensive end that much because of the lack of true offensive big men. Had he had a tougher job guarding Cs with a solid offensive game (something in which he isn't very good at) Mr Impact's impact would not be so high.

Use basic common sense. How can Dwight be as dominant as prime Shaq if he can't even begin to attempt to contain prime Shaq? Because of his impact? His impact will be on he bench with 6 fouls.

MagicBucsSox
09-08-2011, 12:16 AM
I wish Dwight was fortunate enough to play in the early days. That's all them guys got on him

MagicBucsSox
09-08-2011, 12:19 AM
do you see shaq being manhandled by pau in an nba finals?

no?

end of the discusion.

Ben Wallace handed Shaq and LA their *** to them in those finals,without scoring

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:20 AM
I wish Dwight was fortunate enough to play in the early days. That's all them guys got on him

Have you seen Dwight's offensive footwork? Have you seen his go to moves? Have you seen his back to the basket game? That's all those guys got on him? Dwight's in the league 7 years now his offensive game isn't even polished. All of those guys had a almost complete offensive arsenal by the time they were in their 2nd year. Era of play is not all those guys got on him.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:26 AM
Ben Wallace handed Shaq and LA their *** to them in those finals,without scoring

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406130DET.html

36 and 20

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406060LAL.html

34 and 11

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200406080LAL.html

29 and 7

the Pistons were one of the best defensive teams to ever win a title and Shaq was near the end of his prime. Dwight however was just entering.

Plus how does what you're saying discredit what Crooner said? :confused:

llemon
09-08-2011, 12:27 AM
Are you talking about 8 points on 1-4 shooting and 8 rebounds?

I'm talking the whole series. Dwight put up good numbers, but Collins frustrated Howard while he (Collins) was on the floor. Had Dwight in foul trouble and Howard had high TO numbers.

llemon
09-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Ben Wallace handed Shaq and LA their *** to them in those finals,without scoring

No way Big Ben could handle Shaq straight up. Pistons played great team defense.

5ass
09-08-2011, 12:56 AM
No way Big Ben could handle Shaq straight up. Pistons played great team defense.

True, Wallace was just too short

5ass
09-08-2011, 01:01 AM
You said



Now you're talking about you said in terms of impact and domincance they can be compared?

What is performance? Doesn't statistics reflect performance?

Why not compare them? If we're talking dominance and impact why not match the two of them at their peak against each other. Let's see how much impact Dwight has then. Do you really think when playing against a quality C Dwight would even think to attempt to "guard" a perimeter player (someone which he's atrocious at doing Chuck Hayes is better than him in that regard)?

HELL NO. As impactful as Dwight Howard is, IMO the ultimate impact player in the league today, he's only able to dominate the defensive end that much because of the lack of true offensive big men. Had he had a tougher job guarding Cs with a solid offensive game (something in which he isn't very good at) Mr Impact's impact would not be so high.

Use basic common sense. How can Dwight be as dominant as prime Shaq if he can't even begin to attempt to contain prime Shaq? Because of his impact? His impact will be on he bench with 6 fouls.

Lool I love how u left out the sentence just after that with the words impact and dominance clearly underlined and in red. What did u think they were unrelated to the post?

naps
09-08-2011, 01:17 AM
Dwight has been nowhere close to Shaq's impact or dominance. Stop with this BS already. It's already getting ridiculous. You clearly didn't see Shaq in his prime or you don't know what the hell you are talking about here. There is a reason why Shaq is called the "MDE" Most Dominant Ever. Dwight is nowhere near him.

Make a different thread on this if you need more people to clear your cloud. I am pretty sure most people would pick a prime Shaq to build a team over anybody in the history not named Jordan. How does Dwight fare on that?

Raph12
09-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Yes easily... He definitely has the potential to do so, it's on him to reach it.

Depends on your criteria for your Top 10 list, but he can easily crack Top 5-7 in terms of efficiency/production in another couple of solid seasons like last year.

5ass
09-08-2011, 02:01 AM
Dwight has been nowhere close to Shaq's impact or dominance. Stop with this BS already. It's already getting ridiculous. You clearly didn't see Shaq in his prime or you don't know what the hell you are talking about here. There is a reason why Shaq is called the "MDE" Most Dominant Ever. Dwight is nowhere near him.

Make a different thread on this if you need more people to clear your cloud. I am pretty sure most people would pick a prime Shaq to build a team over anybody in the history not named Jordan. How does Dwight fare on that?
that's ur opinion, not a fact. During their prime they both dominated at their position. I don't feel like debating this with u anymore.

LakersMaster24
09-08-2011, 02:25 AM
Dwight better than Shaq, or even close to prime Shaq?

GTFO here.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 02:30 AM
that's ur opinion, not a fact. During their prime they both dominated at their position. I don't feel like debating this with u anymore.


mmm yeah Hakeem.Robinson. Ewing = Marc gasol, Chandler and Noah :rolleyes:


Oh yeah and being dominated by Hakeem in 95 is = to being dominated by Gasol in 09 :D

Bulldogs100
09-08-2011, 02:33 AM
Why are ya'll even talking african handball it isn't even gon be played for 2 years.

itsripcity32
09-08-2011, 02:55 AM
5ass sounds like a bandwagon magic fan

naps
09-08-2011, 03:05 AM
that's ur opinion, not a fact. During their prime they both dominated at their position. I don't feel like debating this with u anymore.

Nope. That's not my opinion. That's a fact. Now I know you never saw Shaq play in his prime.
And dominating respective positions in two different eras doesn't necessarily equal the players. Don't you know that? It's not a rocket science. Who does Dwight play against? Are there any Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning in today's league? Shaq played against those guys and still was a monster. Dwight is playing against scrubs and still million miles far from Shaq's dominance. Putting Shaq and Dwight in the same sentence in terms of dominance itself is a blasphemy.

5ass
09-08-2011, 03:09 AM
mmm yeah Hakeem.Robinson. Ewing = Marc gasol, Chandler and Noah :rolleyes:


Oh yeah and being dominated by Hakeem in 95 is = to being dominated by Gasol in 09 :D

Can u read? Look a couple a posts above I said exactly the opposite. Why is every1 trying to put words in my mouth? Do I need to repost all of my previous posts every time I reply? Every1 just sees Dwight and shaq in the same sentence and they get pissed, evry1 calm the **** down. Read all of my posts well before u talk.

5ass
09-08-2011, 03:11 AM
Nope. That's not my opinion. That's a fact. Now I know you never saw Shaq play in his prime.
And dominating respective positions in two different eras doesn't necessarily equal the players. Don't you know that? It's not a rocket science. Who does Dwight play against? Are there any Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning in today's league? Shaq played against those guys and still was a monster. Dwight is playing against scrubs and still million miles far from Shaq's dominance. Putting Shaq and Dwight in the same sentence in terms of dominance itself is a blasphemy.

I rspct ur OPINION:silly: lol

MagicBucsSox
09-08-2011, 06:12 AM
Shaq was more dominant on offense, never won DPOY yet alone 3x, nor never lead the league in blocks or Rebs. Dwight owns him on D by far. Add to that he always had one of the most premier guards with him throughout his career, penny,Kobe,wade, Nash,bron he'll even pierce.
Shaqs also had other defenders with him throughout his career

Ppl sleep on defense nowadays. I can't wait til DH gets a real teammate and smashes. Hes been a one man show the last 4yrs

MagicBucsSox
09-08-2011, 06:21 AM
Ppl fault Dwight for the era he plays in like he chose it lmao.

All these great Centers mentioned all had good teammates next to them, talk about that, Zo played with all stars, what Robinson ever do for the spurs til Duncan? Hakeem had a team, Ewings Knicks loaded. Who Dwight got? 3pt shooter and a TERRIBLE pg

Wilt only won titles with other greats and I dont need to mention Russells teammates. Kaj had Oscar and magic

THE DWIGHT DENIAL IS EXTREMELY OUT OF HAND. I just shut this forum up

MagicBucsSox
09-08-2011, 07:06 AM
Have you seen Dwight's offensive football? Have you seen his go to moves? Have you seen his back to the basket game? That's all those guys got on him? Dwight's in the league 7 years now his offensive game isn't even polished. All of those guys had a almost complete offensive arsenal by the time they were in their 2nd year. Era of play is not all those guys got on him.

Offense offense offense that's all psd talks about

i.got.the.nutz
09-08-2011, 07:21 AM
Offense offense offense that's all psd talks about

Shaq would have a minimum of 3 DPOY awards if he played his prime in this era. Blocks per game isn't the end all be all for defensive excellency. Shaq for more than 12 plus years changed more shots in the paint than most people give him credit for.

i.got.the.nutz
09-08-2011, 07:23 AM
And why are we arguing Shaq vs Dwight? Posters that think Dwight has the same impact and dominance Shaq had in his prime are plain ignorant. There is no argument.

ShakeN'Bake
09-08-2011, 07:27 AM
He'll definitely pass Walton so ya according to your list he'll be in the top 10.

ragee
09-08-2011, 07:53 AM
He could surpass Shaq if he can team up with good players and win multiple championships. I am not hating on Shaq. What he did was amazing but he could have accomplished more if he had a work ethic that is similar to Kobe. That is why I believe there is a chance for future centers to have a greater legacy than him... Dwight has accomplished a lot already. A three time DPOY and he is only 25. I am sure he could still win more of those in the future... Now, if he continues to work hard on his game, and maybe win at least one MVP award and several championships, he could be the top 3 of all time... He still have like around 6-8 good years left... anything could happen...

MTar786
09-08-2011, 08:05 AM
lol @ whoever thinks dwight is ANYWHERE near shaqs level. dominance and impact??? ummm shaq gave those 2 words a new meaning. i wonder if dwight has ever seen a triple team? did dwight force the nba to change its rules? im not even going to argue with u losers who think dwight is even half of what shaq was.. it doesnt even deserve to be an argument. dwight is to shaq what Vince carter is to jordan

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 08:08 AM
Lool I love how u left out the sentence just after that with the words impact and dominance clearly underlined and in red. What did u think they were unrelated to the post?


I think Dwight can be top 5, even though I don't think he will. Last season, his performance was as good as shaqs in his prime. I don't care what stats u give me. I know shaquille was a better passer and better offensively (even though he took a lot more shots than Dwight) and faced better competition, but IMO Dwight is a better rebounder, better individual defender (dont forget Shaquille struggled to guard the pick and roll), and he doesn't miss games unlike Shaquille.

Where in that entire post do you see impact and dominance. :rolleyes:

ragee
09-08-2011, 08:11 AM
And why are we arguing Shaq vs Dwight? Posters that think Dwight has the same impact and dominance Shaq had in his prime are plain ignorant. There is no argument.

I have to agree that Shaq was more dominant than Dwight. But like I said, the problem with him is he didn't took care of his body. If he only watched his weight and continued to work hard, with his talent and his size, he could have challenged Kareem as the best center of all time. If his and Kobe's egos didn't clash, they could have gotten more titles and he could even challenge MJ as the GOAT. Problem is he didn't. So what he accomplished could still be surpassed by any future centers with the potential to be a superstar. Even if Shaq was arguably the most dominant player to ever play the game.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 08:13 AM
Shaq was more dominant on offense, never won DPOY yet alone 3x, nor never lead the league in blocks or Rebs. Dwight owns him on D by far. Add to that he always had one of the most premier guards with him throughout his career, penny,Kobe,wade, Nash,bron he'll even pierce.
Shaqs also had other defenders with him throughout his career

Ppl sleep on defense nowadays. I can't wait til DH gets a real teammate and smashes. Hes been a one man show the last 4yrs

This makes no sense.

Dwight won all that he won in a league with NO other top tier C. Let's see how Dwight defends a prime Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Hakeem, D-Rob, Vlade Divac, Rik Smits etc.

The one high calibre C Dwight even had the opportunity to defend SLAUGHTERED him. Tell me I'm lying. Yao Ming OWNS Dwight. And you're talking about D. Until Dwight proves that he can defend a quality big ONE on ONE and push him around a bit he can never be as dominant on D as Shaq was on O. NEVER.

Shaq never got owned by anyone. Not Hakeem, not Robinson, not Ewing, not Mourning no won. All of whom are better than Yao Ming.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 08:15 AM
Ppl fault Dwight for the era he plays in like he chose it lmao.

All these great Centers mentioned all had good teammates next to them, talk about that, Zo played with all stars, what Robinson ever do for the spurs til Duncan? Hakeem had a team, Ewings Knicks loaded. Who Dwight got? 3pt shooter and a TERRIBLE pg

Wilt only won titles with other greats and I dont need to mention Russells teammates. Kaj had Oscar and magic

THE DWIGHT DENIAL IS EXTREMELY OUT OF HAND. I just shut this forum up

Now this man is attempting to compare supporting casts. :laugh:

What the HELL does that have to do with the individual's talent. We're not talking about their winning we're talking simply about talent and ability. :rolleyes:

You are a real piece of work.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 08:19 AM
Offense offense offense that's all psd talks about

Unfortunately child that is what ALL of those Cs have on Dwight Howard. OFFENSE. In terms of offensive ability Dwight is no where near any of those players and he's had enough time to polish his game more than he already has.

And did you not see the entire thread we've been debating D this entire time. What kinda garbage statement is that any way?

You guys have NO case and aren't even doing your guy justice by the ignorance that you're showing.

Dwight can only dominate so much on D because he has no one tough to guard. Let's see Dwight's D against prime Shaq and we'll know how dominant he really is.

ragee
09-08-2011, 08:26 AM
Swashcuff, what if Dwight is able to team up with CP3 or D-Will? DO you think they are capable of winning multiple titles?

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 08:39 AM
Swashcuff, what if Dwight is able to team up with CP3 or D-Will? DO you think they are capable of winning multiple titles?

Bro I posted an article earlier in this thread where the writer said he sees Dwight could possibly finish top 25 all time if all the pieces fall into place. Do I agree. Hell yes.

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/predicting-dwight-howards-place-in.html

^ that's the article

Don't get me wrong I am not bashing Dwight or anything of the sort his defensive impact is undeniable and in today's NBA he is the king of the painted area. That can't be denied. However saying that he's already as dominant and as impacting as prime Shaq. Well that's couldn't be more wrong.

As for the question you asked me sure I can surely see him winning multiple titles with a quality PG like CP3 or D.Will and the right supporting cast of players. Even in today's NBA with all these super teams that are likely to be formed Dwight IMO is an X-Factor of sorts. He's the only one of his kind and that IMO holds a certain monopoly over the league.

There is a reason I say that I'll likely choose Dwight over damn near anyone in the NBA if I'm starting a team (still debating within myself about LeBron).

PhillyBoomerang
09-08-2011, 08:52 AM
He has a win a few championships and maybe a MVP or 2 for me to go up to 10 status. Dwight is a great player in a league in which the Center Position is very mediocre today. So in saying that you would think Dwight would dominate even more i just have yet to see him truly dominate yet. He got time and the skills to be a top all time player, However at this point in time he has yet to reach those goals. a Couple of All-star appearances/Slam Dunk/ Defensive POY is a great start he just needs to take the next step or 2 then we can start legitimately talking about dwight as an all time great.. just not yet

ragee
09-08-2011, 09:01 AM
Bro I posted an article earlier in this thread where the writer said he sees Dwight could possibly finish top 25 all time if all the pieces fall into place. Do I agree. Hell yes.

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/predicting-dwight-howards-place-in.html

^ that's the article

Don't get me wrong I am not bashing Dwight or anything of the sort his defensive impact is undeniable and in today's NBA he is the king of the painted area. That can't be denied. However saying that he's already as dominant and as impacting as prime Shaq. Well that's couldn't be more wrong.

As for the question you asked me sure I can surely see him winning multiple titles with a quality PG like CP3 or D.Will and the right supporting cast of players. Even in today's NBA with all these super teams that are likely to be formed Dwight IMO is an X-Factor of sorts. He's the only one of his kind and that IMO holds a certain monopoly over the league.

There is a reason I say that I'll likely choose Dwight over damn near anyone in the NBA if I'm starting a team (still debating within myself about LeBron).

Sorry. I was too lazy to read everything. Lol. Never mind then. I am not going to argue about Shaq's dominance because I agree on you with that one.

JordansBulls
09-08-2011, 03:23 PM
Ben Wallace handed Shaq and LA their *** to them in those finals,without scoring

Shaq averaged 27 ppg and 11 rpg on 63% in those finals.

Hellcrooner
09-08-2011, 03:45 PM
the most pissing thing bout shaq is......he never really tried.
he kept shooting bricks from teh ft line, didnt want to take all the surgerys he needed and in any case refused to do them in free time, always presented him sefl out of shape in training camp.

And yet he was uberdominant.

If he had an AVERAGE commitment to the game and carried himself with a minimum of profesionalims he could ahve become the Goat hands down.

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 03:53 PM
He would edge out the Top 10 if healthy but I see the lack of Centers in the NBA argument being used against him in the future much like Mikan and his era.

i.got.the.nutz
09-08-2011, 06:34 PM
I have to agree that Shaq was more dominant than Dwight. But like I said, the problem with him is he didn't took care of his body. If he only watched his weight and continued to work hard, with his talent and his size, he could have challenged Kareem as the best center of all time. If his and Kobe's egos didn't clash, they could have gotten more titles and he could even challenge MJ as the GOAT. Problem is he didn't. So what he accomplished could still be surpassed by any future centers with the potential to be a superstar. Even if Shaq was arguably the most dominant player to ever play the game.

Oh I agree 100%. As a Lakers fan, I can tell you more than anyone that Shaq didn't give a flying **** in the off season. However, that doesn't change the 14 years of pure dominance he inflicted on the league.

Will he be surpassed someday by another dominant big? Most likely, given enough time. But it won't be by someone named Dwight Howard.

Bos_Sports4Life
09-08-2011, 06:53 PM
- 5x all star

- 3x DPOY

-4X 1ST Team All NBA

- Finals appearnces with a not soo great supporting cast



Pretty Impressive Resume for a 25 year old. Hes deff well on his way. I don't think he could EVER pass

- Russell
- Wilt
- Kareem
- Hakeem
- Shaq

And he has a wayyyys too go too pass guys like Robinson, Ewing, Mosses ect..

So basically top 5? No way, Top 10? Sure...he just has too play like this for 7-10 yrs

ewmania
09-08-2011, 10:38 PM
if this guy can get his offensive ability just as good as defense and also stack his hand with rings

i'm throwing top 5 in there

5ass
09-09-2011, 12:09 AM
IMO Dwight isn't even being used to his full potential (offensively) and he never had a great team. Finals team was good, could have been a championship team, but still nowhere near lakers Kobe-pau-odom.

5ass
09-09-2011, 12:13 AM
I really think in a better system, better offense Dwight could average 25-14-3-1-1 (shaq-like stats)

Hawkeye15
09-09-2011, 12:27 AM
Yes. Dwight will end up a top 10 center of all time. He has faults offensively, but he will go down as an extremely efficient center on that end, and his defensive dominance, awards, and accolades will leave him in the top 6-10 discussion when all is said and done.

theheatles
09-09-2011, 12:32 AM
Zo > walton

JordansBulls
09-09-2011, 02:29 PM
Zo > walton

How so?

Shmontaine
09-09-2011, 02:41 PM
the most pissing thing bout shaq is......he never really tried.
he kept shooting bricks from teh ft line, didnt want to take all the surgerys he needed and in any case refused to do them in free time, always presented him sefl out of shape in training camp.

And yet he was uberdominant.

If he had an AVERAGE commitment to the game and carried himself with a minimum of profesionalims he could ahve become the Goat hands down.

He did it his way, which is kind of awesome... he still maintained the persona and personality that he wanted... everything you say is right, though...