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KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:20 PM
People always argue over this between mainly two players, and that is Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant. Personally, not being a homer, I see 'Melo as the better scorer.

When it comes to strength, Carmelo simply bullies his defenders and gets too the hoop. While Durant is very lengthy, he lacks is muscle, and sometimes limits him in the post game. He also tends to fade away on his jumpshots as well due to this.
Nextly, Melo in my opinion has some of the best footwork in the NBA. This allows him to get to the hoop easier, and also contributes to his better post game compared to Durant. Durant also isn't known for a trade-mark move, good or bad, when you think of the most effective/beautiful moves, Carmelo Anthony's spin move may come to mind along with Derrick Roses crossover. Some may say that Durant has several moves, which may be true, but Melo has more polished ones.
After that, Carmelo is a better all around offenseive player. He can do a bit of everything, post-up, slash, shoot the three, and mid-range. Melo has the best mid-range game along with Dirk. Durant does have length as said before, which is a very, very potent weapon, but I still think that Melo's versatility makes up for that. Here can easily be a coin flip.
Also this may not be a huge factor, but Melo is by far the more clutch player. He performs when his team needs him too. Again him and Dirk lead the NBA in FG% in the last minute of the fourth quarter when down by 3 or less.
So I think Melo is the better pure scorer, he can put up the numbers more easily than Durant can. Don't take into count age, because obviously we get that Durant is younger. But it is right here, right now, who do you want?

Sound off!

knicks4life33
09-06-2011, 07:23 PM
gotta go with melo

Hellcrooner
09-06-2011, 07:24 PM
DIRK

BY FAR, then his rebounding and D are suspicious but in Scoring ability NO ONE comes close.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:27 PM
DIRK

BY FAR, then his rebounding and D are suspicious but in Scoring ability NO ONE comes close.

Dirk can't shoot the three as well, and can't drive very well. His mid-range is deadly though. I wouldn't say he's the best pure scorer though.

Chacarron
09-06-2011, 07:27 PM
From the two players, Durant.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Those who vote Durant, give me the reasons why...

Stack_NJNets
09-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Durant, scoring champ at 21 years of age. Sickening.

ChiSox219
09-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Durant, two time scoring champ at age 22 is insane

Ebbs
09-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Dirk can't shoot the three as well, and can't drive very well. His mid-range is deadly though. I wouldn't say he's the best pure scorer though.

Lolz Dirk can't shoot 3's? the .463% playoff 3 point shooter? The 3 previous 3 point champ Dirk? the Dirk who has averaged above 40% from three numerous times in his career?

Dirk is the best scorer in the NBA.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Dirk can't shoot the three as well, and can't drive very well. His mid-range is deadly though. I wouldn't say he's the best pure scorer though.

Dirk can't what? What 7 footer do you know who drives the ball very well?

MJ-BULLS
09-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Kevin Durant

Chacarron
09-06-2011, 07:31 PM
When I think pure scorer, I think of Durant. He has been the leading scorer in the NBA the past two seasons and he is only 22. He is also very efficient for a 27+ PPG scorer. His methods of scoring may not be pretty sometimes but that's what makes him a pure scorer. He gets buckets almost at will from anywhere on the floor.

Corey
09-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Tossup between Dirk and Durant for me.

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2011, 07:39 PM
if Dirk was on the list i woulda voted him but outta these 2 it's Durant. he's way more efficient than Carmelo

ragee
09-06-2011, 07:39 PM
DIRK

BY FAR, then his rebounding and D are suspicious but in Scoring ability NO ONE comes close.

Melo and Durant are not good defenders either... Dirk is not good in one on one but is decent in team defense... He does not stand around the middle looking lost like Bynum does...

smith&wesson
09-06-2011, 07:42 PM
its durant & melo BOTH!!

they can shoot the 3
they can drive to the rim
they both have crazy mid range jumpers

there is no limitations to theyre offensive game. defence is another story though...


dirk is a crazy scorer too .. but its mostly because of an untouchabale mid range shot. i just think melo and durant are younger and more athletic at this point. but a strong arguement could be made for dirk and maybe wade too.

Hellcrooner
09-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Dirk can't what? What 7 footer do you know who drives the ball very well?

pau http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrGJFH8xjY

odom and kg are "almost" 7 footers that dribble very well

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 07:46 PM
I gotta say Dirk too. He's better than Durant when it comes to scoring.

Melo is in a class under Durant and Dirk when it comes to pure shooting prowess, but Melo is a superior iso player to both of those guys.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 07:46 PM
Durant is the back to back scoring champion. He is more efficient than Melo, gets to the line more and hits on a higher %. Melo has the better back to the basket game, but that's not enough to make up for Durant being considerably more efficiency and prolific in the scoring department.

Dirk of corse also has an argument, but I'd argue that a big part of his offensive prowess is his ability to find the open man once getting doubled. A strength that wouldn't come into the debate during an argument over "best pure scorer".

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-06-2011, 07:47 PM
Durant for the future but present day it's Melo. Durant has to score that much in order for his team to win. He had very little handle to create off the dribble( looks corrected this offseason) and had no post game. Too often in big games he was bullied by smaller defenders. Those holes in his game alone are valid arguments for being the keyword BEST Pure scorer. But I believe he will be when it's all said and done. BUT I'd rather as a KNICK fan see Melo work on other parts of his game like passing and defense. in his brief time in NY he has shown he can do both @ a high level when he wants to. We have another great scorer in Amare. I want a lil more of Lebronesque playmaking and defense in quality spurts rather than him being the best pure scorer

smith&wesson
09-06-2011, 07:48 PM
Dirk can't what? What 7 footer do you know who drives the ball very well?

best pure scorer means best pure scorer. there was nothing specified about height... were not comparing players over 7 feet. its any player you think is the best at scoring. just to clearify .

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 07:49 PM
Durant is the back to back scoring champion. He is more efficient than Melo, gets to the line more and hits on a higher %. Melo has the better back to the basket game, but that's not enough to make up for Durant being considerably more efficiency and prolific in the scoring department.

Dirk of corse also has an argument, but I'd argue that a big part of his offensive prowess is his ability to find the open man once getting doubled. A strength that wouldn't come into the debate during an argument over "best pure scorer".

Durant is more efficient probably because he's more assisted. There's something to be said for being able to create for yourself. Melo can do that better than Durant.

I can't think of anything Durant does that Dirk can't do better. Dirk is more efficient, and shoots better from everywhere on the floor except for at rim.

smith&wesson
09-06-2011, 07:52 PM
Durant is the back to back scoring champion. He is more efficient than Melo, gets to the line more and hits on a higher %. Melo has the better back to the basket game, but that's not enough to make up for Durant being considerably more efficiency and prolific in the scoring department.

Dirk of corse also has an argument, but I'd argue that a big part of his offensive prowess is his ability to find the open man once getting doubled. A strength that wouldn't come into the debate during an argument over "best pure scorer".

agree. hard to argue this.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:53 PM
Melo and Durant are not good defenders either... Dirk is not good in one on one but is decent in team defense... He does not stand around the middle looking lost like Bynum does...

this is scoring not defense fellas. read..:facepalm:

smith&wesson
09-06-2011, 07:53 PM
Durant is more efficient probably because he's more assisted. There's something to be said for being able to create for yourself. Melo can do that better than Durant.

I can't think of anything Durant does that Dirk can't do better. Dirk is more efficient, and shoots better from everywhere on the floor except for at rim.

actually westbrook isnt exactly known for his assists and play making skills. durant does find alot of looks on his own.

and durant at this point is way more athletic then dirk. but thats about all he has on him in that regard.

Daze9900
09-06-2011, 07:54 PM
Depends on what your criteria is using the term "pure scorer". For me I'm going to try to convince myself that I'm not being a homer by picking 'Melo. He can post up, had a mid range game, can drive has a long range game and can shoot the three. Any way you slice it Melo scores. KD is different beast. As people mentioned he scores at will. His moves aren't flashy but he just gets the job done very efficiently. If you value the skillset then you pick 'Melo. If you are just tallying up the volume of points then it's Durant to answer your question.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:54 PM
best pure scorer means best pure scorer. there was nothing specified about height... were not comparing players over 7 feet. its any player you think is the best at scoring. just to clearify .

Thank you! I feel like people don't understand how to read...:facepalm:

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 07:56 PM
best pure scorer means best pure scorer. there was nothing specified about height... were not comparing players over 7 feet. its any player you think is the best at scoring. just to clearify .

Because it's common sense. Most 6'8 players drive the ball better than a 7'0 player. It's basic common sense. Saying Dirk doesn't drive the ball well and that's why he isn't as good a pure scorer is ignorant because of the mere fact that his height doesn't accommodate for it as much as someone of Melo's stature.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 07:56 PM
agree. hard to argue this.

Melo had to blend into a team in NY. I think that if Durant was traded to the Knicks. Even know it won't ever happen, his numbers would diminish slightly. That's what happened with Melo.

SeoulBeatz
09-06-2011, 07:56 PM
Dirk, Durant, Melo, and Monta come to mind.

Gators123
09-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Durant

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 07:58 PM
actually westbrook isnt exactly known for his assists and play making skills. durant does find alot of looks on his own.

and durant at this point is way more athletic then dirk. but thats about all he has on him in that regard.

Westbrook is more than adequate, and Durant also has Harden and Maynor on his team...he's got plenty of ballhandlers and creators for himself...and this is reflected by the fact that he's one of the most assisted elite SF's in the entire league. About 62% of Durants shots are assisted.

compare that to Paul Pierce, Melo, Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Lebron....

Dirk >>> Durant imo. Dirk is just as assisted as Durant but he is more efficient and a better mid range and long range shooter. I'm looking at the stats right now, this isn't opinion, it's fact.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Thank you! I feel like people don't understand how to read...:facepalm:

What? You said Dirk Nowitizki doesn't shoot the 3 well when in truth and in fact he shoots it and the free throw better than both Melo and Durant. :rolleyes: Why didn't you defend that point?

Also saying Dirk isn't as good because he drives the ball as good as those two players are ignorant. Why? Because his height limits him. It's basic common sense. He doesn't have the ball handling ability nor quickness and agility to put the ball on the floor and drive.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:03 PM
pau http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrGJFH8xjY

odom and kg are "almost" 7 footers that dribble very well

They are for their respective height now compare their dribbling ability to that of Carmelo, or rather the best in the league are they still very well or good for their height?

And using that video to back Pau.... :pity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2NrAqQr4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCvTmmj6QUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL6CYWJcx_I

Why not compare Pau's driving ability to Melo's and lets see how they stack up.

Hellcrooner
09-06-2011, 08:05 PM
They are for their respective height now compare their dribbling ability to that of Carmelo, or rather the best in the league are they still very well or good for their height?

And using that video to back Pau.... :pity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eu2NrAqQr4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCvTmmj6QUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL6CYWJcx_I

Why not compare Pau's driving ability to Melo's and lets see how they stack up.

lol i was just showing that ther are 7 footers that can handle the ball well ( obviously related to their height, they are not gonna hanlde it lik mugsy bogues)

and wtf, im actually deffending dirk in this thread, and was the first to stand up for him.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 08:07 PM
Durant is more efficient probably because he's more assisted. There's something to be said for being able to create for yourself. Melo can do that better than Durant.

I can't think of anything Durant does that Dirk can't do better. Dirk is more efficient, and shoots better from everywhere on the floor except for at rim.

What makes him more assisted than Melo? Because Westbrook averages 2.0 more assists per game than Billups? Because of Harden? Perhaps a slight advantage, but what about Melos advantage of playing alongside a legit bigman? Carmelo gets to play along side a legitimate big man in Amare; when Amare gets double teams 'Melo has more space to operate. Durant doesn't have that advantage, all of his offensive assistance is on the perimeter.

Durant gets to the line more, has the greater TS% and averages more points than Melo. Even if I agree that Melo gets his own shot better than Durant, that doesn't make up for Durant being more efficient, and more productive.

KD attacks the bucket more often that Dirk. That's reflected in his FTA per game. I'm way more open to an argument of Dirk over Durant than Melo over Durant.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:09 PM
lol i was just showing that ther are 7 footers that can handle the ball well ( obviously related to their height, they are not gonna hanlde it lik mugsy bogues)

and wtf, im actually deffending dirk in this thread, and was the first to stand up for him.

I'm just saying. When comparing 7 footers to athletic wings using driving ability as a reason why the smaller player is better offensively isn't the smart direction to take.

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 08:15 PM
What makes him more assisted than Melo?

That's what the stats indicate.
Last season Melo was assisted on around 48% of his shots in Denver and on 46% of his shots in New York. Durant was assisted on 62% of his shots.

Amongst elite SF's he's one of the most higher assisted ones. Lebron James and Rudy Gay are two of the least assisted ones.


Look.... if you're charged with creating for yourself as much as some of these guys are, I understand why your efficiency might not be as high.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:17 PM
What makes him more assisted than Melo? Because Westbrook averages 2.0 more assists per game than Billups? Because of Harden? Perhaps a slight advantage, but what about Melos advantage of playing alongside a legit bigman? Carmelo gets to play along side a legitimate big man in Amare; when Amare gets double teams 'Melo has more space to operate. Durant doesn't have that advantage, all of his offensive assistance is on the perimeter.

Durant gets to the line more, has the greater TS% and averages more points than Melo. Even if I agree that Melo gets his own shot better than Durant, that doesn't make up for Durant being more efficient, and more productive.

KD attacks the bucket more often that Dirk. That's reflected in his FTA per game. I'm way more open to an argument of Dirk over Durant than Melo over Durant.


Player %Ast APER
Carmelo Anthony 48.5 22.10
Kevin Durant 62.4 23.14

This however can be easily explained through style of play and offensive system. Durant plays off the ball more (which helps his team more than Melo helps his in isolating) which would mean that he's going to get more FGs assisted than Melo would.

However the fact that KD does have a better APER (Alternative PER) which is just PER adjusted for actual assisted and unassisted field goals tells us that it's really not that huge of a difference maker in regards of stats.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 08:20 PM
Here's how I see the Durant/Melo career number comparison:

KD- PPG: 25.9
MELO- PPG: 24.8

KD- FG%: 46.2%
MELO- FG%: 45.9%

KD-FT%: 88.2%
MELO-FT%: 80.6%

KD- TS%: .576%
MELO- TS%: .545%

KD- 3's%: 35.8%
MELO- 3's%: 32%

KD- FT made per game: 6.6
MELO- FT made per game: 6.3

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

For posters who take Melo because of "his ability to get his own look better", you guys gotta ask yourselves a question. Does that really make up for Durant leading Melo in literally every statical scoring category? Is Melos ability to create his own shot so far superior than Durants as to make up Durants advantage in ALL these categories?

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:20 PM
That's what the stats indicate.
Last season Melo was assisted on around 48% of his shots in Denver and on 46% of his shots in New York. Durant was assisted on 62% of his shots.

Amongst elite SF's he's one of the most higher assisted ones. Lebron James and Rudy Gay are two of the least assisted ones.


Look.... if you're charged with creating for yourself as much as some of these guys are, I understand why your efficiency might not be as high.

That's on Melo however. It's his style of play and when he feels most comfortable. He's better when isolating than running around screens and attempting to get a good shot. THAT among other factors is why he isn't as efficient as KD.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 08:21 PM
That's what the stats indicate.
Last season Melo was assisted on around 48% of his shots in Denver and on 46% of his shots in New York. Durant was assisted on 62% of his shots.

Amongst elite SF's he's one of the most higher assisted ones. Lebron James and Rudy Gay are two of the least assisted ones.


Look.... if you're charged with creating for yourself as much as some of these guys are, I understand why your efficiency might not be as high.



Player %Ast APER
Carmelo Anthony 48.5 22.10
Kevin Durant 62.4 23.14

This however can be easily explained through style of play and offensive system. Durant plays off the ball more (which helps his team more than Melo helps his in isolating) which would mean that he's going to get more FGs assisted than Melo would.

However the fact that KD does have a better APER (Alternative PER) which is just PER adjusted for actual assisted and unassisted field goals tells us that it's really not that huge of a difference maker in regards of stats.

Interesting. Thanks for presenting guys.

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 08:21 PM
Here's how I see the Durant/Melo career number comparison:

KD- PPG: 25.9
MELO- PPG: 24.8

KD- FG%: 46.2%
MELO- FG%: 45.9%

KD-FT%: 88.2%
MELO-FT%: 80.6%

KD- TS%: .576%
MELO- TS%: .545%

KD- 3's%: 35.8%
MELO- 3's%: 32%

KD- FT made per game: 6.6
MELO- FT made per game: 6.3

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

For posters who take Melo because of "his ability to get his own look better", you guys gotta ask yourselves a question. Does that really make up for Durant leading Melo in literally every statical scoring category? Is Melos ability to create his own shot so far superior than Durants as to make up Durants advantage in ALL these categories?



^ no def not. But I do think Dirk is better than Durant.

Melo is a step below Dirk and Durant, but Melo is the superior iso player

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Here's how I see the Durant/Melo career number comparison:

KD- PPG: 25.9
MELO- PPG: 24.8

KD- FG%: 46.2%
MELO- FG%: 45.9%

KD-FT%: 88.2%
MELO-FT%: 80.6%

KD- TS%: .576%
MELO- TS%: .545%

KD- 3's%: 35.8%
MELO- 3's%: 32%

KD- FT made per game: 6.6
MELO- FT made per game: 6.3

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html

For posters who take Melo because of "his ability to get his own look better", you guys gotta ask yourselves a question. Does that really make up for Durant leading Melo in literally every statical scoring category? Is Melos ability to create his own shot so far superior than Durants as to make up Durants advantage in ALL these categories?

What I would also add to that is that KD's style on offense helps his team more than Melo's does. Running around screen after screen disrupts the opposing team defense and makes his teammates job of finding good shots easier.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 08:23 PM
One thing that will be interesting going forward is Melos three point shot. He killed it from behind the line in NY. We still only have a small sample size to work with, but if Melo continues to hit 3's from 42% in New York it changes the dynamics of the debate a bit.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 08:24 PM
Where do you guys put Kobe in this debate? He dominated this debate for years. Where does he stand now at 33?

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 08:27 PM
Durant, two time scoring champ at age 22 is insane

Age doesnt matter. :facepalm:.

ragee
09-06-2011, 08:27 PM
this is scoring not defense fellas. read..:facepalm:

I know... Just saying he can't knock on Dirk's defense because the two mentioned can't play D as well...

Anyway, I forgot to answer the question... My answer is Dirk as well but if I have to choose between the two, its KD...

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 08:28 PM
Where do you guys put Kobe in this debate? He dominated this debate for years. Where does he stand now at 33?

He's up there, but died down. He's frankly at the end of his career. But in his prime, he certainly wins. But it's current.

sunsfan23
09-06-2011, 08:29 PM
I'll go with D-Wade... when he's on he's just about unstoppable.

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 08:32 PM
Where do you guys put Kobe in this debate? He dominated this debate for years. Where does he stand now at 33?

Kobe is still an excellent shooter. It's hard to say where to put him because he seemed so deflated last season. He's lost a step or two but he's still a great shooter.

But another thing that irks me about Carmelos game is his inconsistency from midrange. Like from 3-15 feet there's a gap in his game, he's not as consistently good year-to-year from that distance as he is from 16 feet-to-three range. I guess he doesn't like shooting from there.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Where do you guys put Kobe in this debate? He dominated this debate for years. Where does he stand now at 33?

I'd certainly have him in the discussion, but I think I'm a bit biased because of my utmost respect for his scoring ability. IMO though he may not be on the level he once was he still has the most complete offensive repertoire of any player in the league.

A shooting guard doesn't average 25 ppg 15 years into the league with above average efficiency if you're not a top tier pure scorer.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 08:34 PM
What? You said Dirk Nowitizki doesn't shoot the 3 well when in truth and in fact he shoots it and the free throw better than both Melo and Durant. :rolleyes: Why didn't you defend that point?

Also saying Dirk isn't as good because he drives the ball as good as those two players are ignorant. Why? Because his height limits him. It's basic common sense. He doesn't have the ball handling ability nor quickness and agility to put the ball on the floor and drive.

Dirk doesnt put up as many attempts. You're right though. However, when it comes to this, height doesn't matter. If he can't put it on the floor as well, than that's that. Frankly, in basketball when it comes to scoring, off the dribble and slashing may be the most important category to make you elite. The same goes with quickness and agility.

naps
09-06-2011, 08:34 PM
One thing that will be interesting going forward is Melos three point shot. He killed it from behind the line in NY. We still only have a small sample size to work with, but if Melo continues to hit 3's from 42% in New York it changes the dynamics of the debate a bit.

Melo shooting 42% from downtown for the entire season sounds scary!

Avenged
09-06-2011, 08:34 PM
I like Dirk here. Followed by Durant. :D

Hawkeye15
09-06-2011, 08:41 PM
this is basically a comparison debate. However, I would put Kevin Martin up with anyone. As far as perimeter oriented players who don't get all theirs off guard creation, Martin and Dirk are more efficient than both Melo and Durant.

But if I have to vote here, Durant. He had a down year for him, and not only was he slightly better this season, but last year Durant was easily a better pure scorer than Melo has ever been in a given year. It will be interesting to see if the Mike D/trade honeymoon wears off, because Melo had one of his most efficient stretches of his career after joining the Knicks

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-06-2011, 08:44 PM
What makes him more assisted than Melo? Because Westbrook averages 2.0 more assists per game than Billups? Because of Harden? Perhaps a slight advantage, but what about Melos advantage of playing alongside a legit bigman? Carmelo gets to play along side a legitimate big man in Amare; when Amare gets double teams 'Melo has more space to operate. Durant doesn't have that advantage, all of his offensive assistance is on the perimeter.

Durant gets to the line more, has the greater TS% and averages more points than Melo. Even if I agree that Melo gets his own shot better than Durant, that doesn't make up for Durant being more efficient, and more productive.

KD attacks the bucket more often that Dirk. That's reflected in his FTA per game. I'm way more open to an argument of Dirk over Durant than Melo over Durant.

Two things I disagree in this post. First is that Amare isn't a back to the basket type forward. He's a face up attack type with speed and power. Even if he got doubled when Melo got there which usually doesn't happen because it's hard to double some1 who sees it coming from the high post it's most certainly not Melo's defender. Durant gets a majority of free throws from what I've seen from his swipe move on jumpshots and in transition. My second point maybe incorrect but I'm judging it based off what I've seen in OKC games.. Durant isn't a bully to the basket drive forward in the half court set.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Dirk doesnt put up as many attempts. You're right though. However, when it comes to this, height doesn't matter. If he can't put it on the floor as well, than that's that. Frankly, in basketball when it comes to scoring, off the dribble and slashing may be the most important category to make you elite. The same goes with quickness and agility.

Dirk proves this theory to be incorrect. A consistent shot is what makes you elite. Rose puts the ball on the floor better than damn near anyone doesn't mean he's a better pure scorer than Dirk is.

Dirk is/was a better 3 pt shooter than KD and Melo hands down. He has changed his game and started taking less 3pters but rather taking his game inside more and it has paid dividends. In the past he has made more 3s at a higher % than both KD and Melo even has.

llemon
09-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Define 'pure'.

ChiTownPacerFan
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Umm... Lebron's still in the NBA, right?

Hawkeye15
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Define 'pure'.

my definition? Versatile, able to get points efficiently off the dribble, at the rim, on the perimeter, off the move, on the break, draws fouls and makes them, and doesn't waste possessions attempting to score, which hurts a players team. Hence why Monta Ellis was crucified the past 2 years prior to this one, despite being a 25 ppg scorer.

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Umm... Lebron's still in the NBA, right?

Yes he is.. The ? Is best Pure scorer which Lebron is not. If the question was pure passer or pure athlete then it would be different

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Define 'pure'.


Pure Scorer: A player who possesses the skill set to maximize on his scoring opportunities and execute them as effectively as possible.

Jumper (mid + long), Finesse/Power inside, Strength, Quickness, Natural scorers mentally/instinct. A combination or all of the attributes packaged into one player.

^That was my post in a thread asking this very same question over a year ago.

May tweak it a bit now looking back but hey.

llemon
09-06-2011, 09:13 PM
my definition? Versatile, able to get points efficiently off the dribble, at the rim, on the perimeter, off the move, on the break, draws fouls and makes them, and doesn't waste possessions attempting to score, which hurts a players team. Hence why Monta Ellis was crucified the past 2 years prior to this one, despite being a 25 ppg scorer.

By that definition, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili and Stephen Graham

ChiTownPacerFan
09-06-2011, 09:13 PM
Yes he is.. The ? Is best Pure scorer which Lebron is not. If the question was pure passer or pure athlete then it would be different

I'm not so sure. At any rate, he's at least in the conversation.

KnicksR4Real
09-06-2011, 09:15 PM
^That was my post in a thread asking this very same question over a year ago.

May tweak it a bit now looking back but hey.

And Melo fits the category the best. Great definition:clap:

GoPacers33
09-06-2011, 09:20 PM
KD hands down

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-06-2011, 09:22 PM
I'm not so sure. At any rate, he's at least in the conversation.

Not really. Jumpshot far from pure, No post game, & relies on his athleticism for a majority of his baskets. Lebron can get hot and make spectacular athletic plays but a pure scorer he is not. He has no legitimate go to moves but with all that said what he does have always makes him a threat. He's a physical beast that people have to respect. Now if he learned from Hakeem and fine tuned that J it'll be a totally different story.

Cano4prez
09-06-2011, 09:27 PM
Not really. Jumpshot far from pure, No post game, & relies on his athleticism for a majority of his baskets. Lebron can get hot and make spectacular athletic plays but a pure scorer he is not. He has no legitimate go to moves but with all that said what he does have always makes him a threat. He's a physical beast that people have to respect. Now if he learned from Hakeem and fine tuned that J it'll be a totally different story.

He's a better shooter than Melo

Hawkeye15
09-06-2011, 09:41 PM
By that definition, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili and Stephen Graham

if this were 2007, Pierce and Manu are GREAT examples. Graham doesn't command enough overall attention to have his game challenged on a nightly basis. Maggette falls under that blanket.

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Lebron and Wade are still good answers imo. What makes them not good pure scorers, exactly?

Hawkeye15
09-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Lebron and Wade are still good answers imo. What makes them not good pure scorers, exactly?

there is no reason to say they are not elite pure scorers....

Sadds The Gr8
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Lebron and Wade are still good answers imo. What makes them not good pure scorers, exactly?

they aren't great shooters like Durant and Dirk.

llemon
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
if this were 2007, Pierce and Manu are GREAT examples. Graham doesn't command enough overall attention to have his game challenged on a nightly basis. Maggette falls under that blanket.

Will stand by Pierce and Manu. Graham was intended as a joke.

Swashcuff
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Lebron and Wade are still good answers imo. What makes them not good pure scorers, exactly?

A polished offensive player is not to be confused with a pure scorer. LeBron's offensive repertoire may not be as polished as say Carmelo or Wade's a polished as Kobe's but they are indeed pure scorers IMO.

Bruno
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
Two things I disagree in this post. First is that Amare isn't a back to the basket type forward. He's a face up attack type with speed and power. Even if he got doubled when Melo got there which usually doesn't happen because it's hard to double some1 who sees it coming from the high post it's most certainly not Melo's defender. Durant gets a majority of free throws from what I've seen from his swipe move on jumpshots and in transition. My second point maybe incorrect but I'm judging it based off what I've seen in OKC games.. Durant isn't a bully to the basket drive forward in the half court set.

Fair points.

As a guy who watches lots of Knicks games, do you think that playing alongside Amare offers Melo no offensive advantages?

KD does that swipe move a lot. Maybe a point in the paint analysis would be a better way of determining who is better at attacking the basket.

KD knows how to get to the line, that's for sure. It should be accounted for when assessing scoring, overall.

RZZZA
09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
Lebron is a pretty damn good shooter. Not Dirk good but...still good. Gotta work some more on his 3's but his mid range is money

Hawkeye15
09-06-2011, 09:59 PM
Will stand by Pierce and Manu. Graham was intended as a joke.

I have no problem with you standing by them. They have been very good pure scorers over the past 10 years. They just don't stack up to the elite of the elite anymore. But not bad picks.

juno10
09-06-2011, 10:02 PM
By that definition, Paul Pierce, Manu Ginobili and Stephen Graham

joey graham>>>stephen graham;)

llemon
09-06-2011, 10:10 PM
joey graham>>>stephen graham;)

Is this a subject discussed anywhere else besides this forum and the Graham's Thanksgiving Day children's table?

calakers
09-06-2011, 10:12 PM
durant it seems he doesnt even break a sweat

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-07-2011, 07:45 PM
He's a better shooter than Melo

:pity: if you really believe that. I guess you haven't realized that's Lebrons only legitimate weakness outside of having bad footwork in the post

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-07-2011, 07:53 PM
Lebron is a pretty damn good shooter. Not Dirk good but...still good. Gotta work some more on his 3's but his mid range is money

It's money when it's not a pressure packed situation. Lebrons mechanics changes ever so slightly. He misses badly wide left or right. It's prob mental why he does it but I wouldn't call him a money midrange shooter. He has improved but seems to lose his focus or confidence in his shot IMO.

Hawkeye15
09-07-2011, 07:58 PM
:pity: if you really believe that. I guess you haven't realized that's Lebrons only legitimate weakness outside of having bad footwork in the post

Bron:
10-15 ft: 44.7%
16-23 ft: 45%
3: 33%

Melo:
10-15 ft: 36.8%
16-23 ft: 40%
3: 42%(complete outlier, seeing as his career % mirrors LeBron)

Melo is far worse from 3-9 feet as well. LeBron has become a very capable shooter. Better than Melo. He literally shoots a higher percentage everywhere outside the 3 ball, which neither is great at.

THE MTL
09-07-2011, 07:59 PM
Carmelo Anthony is the most offensively gifted player in the NBA. He can do it all. Shooting threes, midrange, post game, driving, pulling up, and bullying.

However, since the poll says "pure" scorer like fadeaways, minimial contact, shooting I would have to go with Durant. His shots are butter and nothing else.

IndiansFan337
09-07-2011, 08:46 PM
From the two players, Durant.

Same here. He can shoot better from everywhere. Add he forces less poor shot attempts.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-07-2011, 08:51 PM
I'd take my chances on Jamal Crawford over both these guys.

Crawford doesn't **** around with that crossover then a 3.

naps
09-07-2011, 09:20 PM
Lebron and Wade are still good answers imo. What makes them not good pure scorers, exactly?

Good question.

I see most people here tend to think the good shooters are pure scorers. LeBron's and Wade's scoring abilities are not any less than these guys mentioned here. The difference is some people shoot better, some slash better, etc. But overall, I don't see why Wade or LeBron can't be called an elite pure scorer along with the options given here.

GhostfaceDrilla
09-07-2011, 09:38 PM
Dirk can't shoot the three as well, and can't drive very well. His mid-range is deadly though. I wouldn't say he's the best pure scorer though.

First off, Dirk is a better 3 point shooter than Melo.

Second off, Dirk is the best mid range shooter in the game BY FAR. It isn't even close.

Third off, Dirk is the best scorer in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
09-07-2011, 09:50 PM
First off, Dirk is a better 3 point shooter than Melo.

Second off, Dirk is the best mid range shooter in the game BY FAR. It isn't even close.

Third off, Dirk is the best scorer in the NBA.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you prove this post with numbers?

JuggernautJ
09-07-2011, 09:59 PM
Dirk

naps
09-07-2011, 10:06 PM
i am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you prove this post with numbers?

+1

Lakers + Giants
09-07-2011, 11:40 PM
Durant, Melo, Kevin Martin

GhostfaceDrilla
09-08-2011, 12:11 AM
I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but can you prove this post with numbers?

Mid range, it is really obvious.

3 pointers: Dirk shot 39.3 % in the reg season and 36.0 % in the playoffs

Carmelo shot 37.8 % in the reg season and 34.6 % in the playoffs.

I'm not gonna go solely on these stats but also if you just watch both of them it is obvious who is the better mid range and 3 pt shooter.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:17 AM
Mid range, it is really obvious.

3 pointers: Dirk shot 39.3 % in the reg season and 36.0 % in the playoffs

Carmelo shot 37.8 % in the reg season and 34.6 % in the playoffs.

I'm not gonna go solely on these stats but also if you just watch both of them it is obvious who is the better mid range and 3 pt shooter.

You said Dirk is he best scorer in he NBA. There are other players who also belong in that conversation.

GhostfaceDrilla
09-08-2011, 12:21 AM
You said Dirk is he best scorer in he NBA. There are other players who also belong in that conversation.

Yes such as Durant, Melo, LeBron, Wade etc.... that's what this thread is about.... And I said Dirk was the best...

RZZZA
09-08-2011, 12:22 AM
I agree with Dirk being the best shooter in the NBA. Scorer, I dunno. It's between Dirk and Lebron and maybe Kobe...tough call

3mikee_
09-08-2011, 12:25 AM
Nobody in the NBA can guard Kevin Durant.. period end of discussion.

Carmelo can be guarded by a lot of the elite defenders. Although he might not be shut down, he can be kept under control. If Kevin Durant matures and has the right mentality he can have 30 ppg seasons like every season effortlessly.

Some other pure scorers that are pretty scary are Monta Elis, Kevin Martin...

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:28 AM
Yes such as Durant, Melo, LeBron, Wade etc.... that's what this thread is about.... And I said Dirk was the best...




Third off, Dirk is the best scorer in the NBA.

:shrug:

care to explain?

You didn't say pure scorer you said scorer there is a difference.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Nobody in the NBA can guard Kevin Durant.. period end of discussion.

Carmelo can be guarded by a lot of the elite defenders. Although he might not be shut down, he can be kept under control. If Kevin Durant matures and has the right mentality he can have 30 ppg seasons like every season effortlessly.

Some other pure scorers that are pretty scary are Monta Elis, Kevin Martin...

While I don't agree same I'd just like to say same can be said for LeBron, Rose and Dirk.

Raph12
09-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Melo has the most offensive weapons, but Durant is a better scorer (more efficient/productive)...

Hawkeye15
09-08-2011, 04:08 AM
Mid range, it is really obvious.

3 pointers: Dirk shot 39.3 % in the reg season and 36.0 % in the playoffs

Carmelo shot 37.8 % in the reg season and 34.6 % in the playoffs.

I'm not gonna go solely on these stats but also if you just watch both of them it is obvious who is the better mid range and 3 pt shooter.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ts_pct

when you knock aside centers, and players who don't have scoring responsibility, I agree, Dirk is as good as you get. But there are some guys with him, even if the list is very short

iam brett favre
09-08-2011, 04:31 AM
Other: Gordon Hayward

NetsPaint
09-08-2011, 04:34 AM
Gotta go with Dirk. Hard to argue after the post-season this year. His scoring was so nuts I was laughing after he was hitting shots.

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-08-2011, 09:26 AM
Hard to argue numbers BUT don't you think that players play Melo tighter on the perimeter bcuz Lebron is inconsistent from the outside. It's something similar to Rondo. Players rather have him shoot it than break the defense down or get an easy layup. And that same midrange seems to escape him in tight games and he puts that head down and forces the action. This isn't Lebron hate. Melo's awful shot selection has more to do with the percentages than shooting ability. Do you really believe that Lebron has a better midrange game????


Bron:
10-15 ft: 44.7%
16-23 ft: 45%
3: 33%

Melo:
10-15 ft: 36.8%
16-23 ft: 40%
3: 42%(complete outlier, seeing as his career % mirrors LeBron)

Melo is far worse from 3-9 feet as well. LeBron has become a very capable shooter. Better than Melo. He literally shoots a higher percentage everywhere outside the 3 ball, which neither is great at.

Shamar81
09-08-2011, 10:08 AM
The question is who is the best pure SCORER? I think people here are confusing Shooting ability to scoring ability. If you look at Reggie Miller vs Micheal Jordan. Who is the better shooter? Reggie Miller is the better shooter. But now if you ask who is the better SCORER.. Jordan is the better scorer. So if the question was whos the better shooter than its Durant thats his game. He shoots the ball. Since the question is who' the better scorer I have to go with Melo. He has more ways to score other than shooting. I hope that brings clarity. I can see why people say Dirk to. Because he proved he can do more than shoot jumpshots. So I wont argue that. But Durant is a shooer. A 6 10 Ray Allen. I love Durant hes my second favorite player but he's a pure shooter. Scoring involves more than shoot jumpshots and free throws.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm so sick of this ****ing comparison...

Durant's '09-'10 season absolutely destroys any season Melo has had in his entire career. It's not even close.

Durant is more efficient, more productive, more motivated, and more intelligent. Let's change the poll options to Durant, Dirk, and Kevin Martin.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm so sick of this ****ing comparison...

Durant's '09-'10 season absolutely destroys any season Melo has had in his entire career. It's not even close.

Durant is more efficient, more productive, more motivated, and more intelligent. Let's change the poll options to Durant, Dirk, and Kevin Martin.

None of that is what this thread is asking. There is a reason this isn't a statistical debate.

Sadds The Gr8
09-08-2011, 12:45 PM
I'd be willing to bet at least 40/46 of the Melo votes are Knick homers

sep11ie
09-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Dirk and Durant.

Reasons: Cause Knicks fans don't agree.

sep11ie
09-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Dirk can't shoot the three as well, and can't drive very well. His mid-range is deadly though. I wouldn't say he's the best pure scorer though.

Dirk career from 3: 38%
Melo career from 3: 32%
Durant career from 3: 36%

Baller1
09-08-2011, 12:53 PM
None of that is what this thread is asking. There is a reason this isn't a statistical debate.

Umm... I can read, I know what the thread is asking.

If a player has had the best statistical scoring season since Michael Jordan, I'd say he's got quite an argument right there as far as pure scoring goes.

Durant is more efficient; plain and simple. If you people want a "flashier scorer" or a "more versatile scorer", then so be it. I'll take the more productive scorer. In other words, I'll take the player that gives me a better chance to win.

Sadds The Gr8
09-08-2011, 12:56 PM
I wonder what Knicks fans excuse is now as to why Durant is worse than Melo, since they can't use the "HE'S NEVER BEEN TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS" crap anymore.

smith&wesson
09-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Melo had to blend into a team in NY. I think that if Durant was traded to the Knicks. Even know it won't ever happen, his numbers would diminish slightly. That's what happened with Melo.

Ya alot of adjustments had to be made, he had to learn the plays, get familiarized with his team mates. melo was beasting in the playoffs when billups and stat went down with injuries, i couldnt beleive the performance melo put on in that last game.. the guys a beast on offense. one of my fav players for sure.

durant and melo are similar type players actually. you cant go wrong with either of them as a first option on offense.

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 01:01 PM
In terms of ability to score anywhere its a toss up between Durant and Dirk for me.
Both play different postions however and are depended slighly different. You don't want Dirk always on the 3pt line for example despite him being able to hit it. His bread and butter is his post and mid range game unlike Durant.

Melo has no place imo until he can become somewhat of a better shot taker.
Even his "game winning" shots as a Knick pissed me off because they aren't exactly the shot you want him to take, more like the shot the defense wants him to take.

Melo is a gifted scorer but inconsistencies like his make comparing him to better players like Dirk/Durant silly.

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 01:02 PM
I wonder what Knicks fans excuse is now as to why Durant is worse than Melo, since they can't use the "HE'S NEVER BEEN TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS" crap anymore.

Excuses? Although small there is some room for debate as to why Durant is not completely better than Melo but its pretty clear Durant is just as good a scorer as Melo and way more efficient across the board. The finals conference argument is beyond irrelevant and I've rarely seen that used as an argument. I've seen more about Durants age being used as a reason why he is better at Melo as of now more than anything like final conference statements.

RZZZA
09-08-2011, 01:03 PM
Melo's midrange game has never been that good. Melo likes to shoot from further out, like 16-23 feet and from three-point range.

Durant and Dirk have much better, more consistent mid range games

Da Knicks
09-08-2011, 01:10 PM
Easy call Melo...

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 01:13 PM
Easy call Melo...

It's far from an easy call especially if your going to vote for Melo. Other players have much better cases than Melo

ManRam
09-08-2011, 01:20 PM
Silly question what's the difference between "best pure scorer" and "best scorer"...or are they the same?

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 01:23 PM
I assume Pure Scorer is titled as someone who can score FT's,FG%,TS%,3pt% efficiently while a scorer is just someone who can put up major points and efficiency, shot selection and percentages are worse.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 01:52 PM
Silly question what's the difference between "best pure scorer" and "best scorer"...or are they the same?

I gave a definition earlier (well over a year ago).


Pure Scorer: A player who possesses the skill set to maximize on his scoring opportunities and execute them as effectively as possible.

Jumper (mid + long), Finesse/Power inside, Strength, Quickness, Natural scorers mentally/instinct. A combination or all of the attributes packaged into one player.

I'd argue that Manu is a purer scorer than Rose but that however doesn't make him a better scorer. The difference while marginal is there.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Umm... I can read, I know what the thread is asking.

If a player has had the best statistical scoring season since Michael Jordan, I'd say he's got quite an argument right there as far as pure scoring goes.

Durant is more efficient; plain and simple. If you people want a "flashier scorer" or a "more versatile scorer", then so be it. I'll take the more productive scorer. In other words, I'll take the player that gives me a better chance to win.

I agree but versatility is indeed a part of being a pure scorer. Kobe scores just around the same as Rose on basically the same efficiency. I don't think anyone would say Rose a purer scorer than Kobe.

There is more to this than just stacking up a bunch of points. I too chose Kevin Durant and gave better reasoning than most, however Melo does have a case in the debate.

Dolfan305
09-08-2011, 02:02 PM
I don't get how a player who has never won the scoring title can be considered the "best pure scorer"

29$JerZ
09-08-2011, 02:03 PM
I gave a definition earlier (well over a year ago).



I'd argue that Manu is a purer scorer than Rose but that however doesn't make him a better scorer. The difference while marginal is there.

Would you categorize a scorer as one who doesn't score efficiently enough to be considered a pure scorer?

Can a pure scorer not have a great maximization of his scoring opportunities?

Just curious, I actually agree with your definition by the way.

Teeboy1487
09-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Durant followed by Melo.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Would you categorize a scorer as one who doesn't score efficiently enough to be considered a pure scorer?

Can a pure scorer not have a great maximization of his scoring opportunities?

Just curious, I actually agree with your definition by the way.

I think in terms of adequate efficiency for position one can be determined a pure scorer. Kobe is slightly above average offensive efficiency but is still one of the best pure scorers in the league. Someone who's below average in terms of efficiency is not a pure scorer IMO. I wouldn't say though because one player is more efficient than another that automatically makes him a purer scorer.

THE GIPPER
09-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Melo's midrange game has never been that good. Melo likes to shoot from further out, like 16-23 feet and from three-point range.

Durant and Dirk have much better, more consistent mid range games

That is completely 100% false. He's one of the few guys in the nba anymore who actually knows how to play the mid-range game. But im assuming you have only watched melo in NY where he did shoot a lot more 3's but seriously as far as best mid-range game in the nba its dirk and melo easily.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 02:29 PM
I agree but versatility is indeed a part of being a pure scorer. Kobe scores just around the same as Rose on basically the same efficiency. I don't think anyone would say Rose a purer scorer than Kobe.

There is more to this than just stacking up a bunch of points. I too chose Kevin Durant and gave better reasoning than most, however Melo does have a case in the debate.

Fair enough, but honestly this debate was crushed when Durant completed his incredible '09-'10 season. Melo has never come close to the type of season Durant had that year, and no matter how versatile a player is, it's combatted by a lack of efficiency. This being Melo's case. I don't really care if he can score in any way, if he can't be as productive as another player, he's simply an inferior scorer.

That's the most logical way to settle such a comparison.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 02:30 PM
That is completely 100% false. He's one of the few guys in the nba anymore who actually knows how to play the mid-range game. But im assuming you have only watched melo in NY where he did shoot a lot more 3's but seriously as far as best mid-range game in the nba its dirk and Lebron easily.

Fixed that for you, you're welcome.

Hawkeye15
09-08-2011, 02:31 PM
Hard to argue numbers BUT don't you think that players play Melo tighter on the perimeter bcuz Lebron is inconsistent from the outside. It's something similar to Rondo. Players rather have him shoot it than break the defense down or get an easy layup. And that same midrange seems to escape him in tight games and he puts that head down and forces the action. This isn't Lebron hate. Melo's awful shot selection has more to do with the percentages than shooting ability. Do you really believe that Lebron has a better midrange game????

No, they lay off Bron because you would rather 45% from 19 feet than give him a full head of steam at the rim, where he shoots nearly perfect. But that doesn't change the numbers. LeBron is more efficient from everywhere, outside the 3 (which as I stated, Melo had a complete outlier this season).

And yes, Melo's terrible shot selection, and the fact that he constantly is a league leader in shots blocked, hurts his efficiency. But isn't that what we are measuring here?

THE GIPPER
09-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Umm... I can read, I know what the thread is asking.

If a player has had the best statistical scoring season since Michael Jordan, I'd say he's got quite an argument right there as far as pure scoring goes.

Durant is more efficient; plain and simple. If you people want a "flashier scorer" or a "more versatile scorer", then so be it. I'll take the more productive scorer. In other words, I'll take the player that gives me a better chance to win.

How is durants 09/10 season a better scoring season than lebron in 05/06, 07/08, 08/09 and 09/10?

TheNumber37
09-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Melo has the moves and mentality, Durant shoots a higher percentage despite being the main focus of a 2 man offense, that's impressive. Still melo is a bully.

mjm07
09-08-2011, 03:11 PM
I don't really know the true definition of "pure scorer" but I do know that Best scorer and the most effecient has been Lebron James.

No one can debate otherwise. Dirk, Durant, Wade and Kobe round things out. Melo's outside the top 5.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 03:28 PM
How is durants 09/10 season a better scoring season than lebron in 05/06, 07/08, 08/09 and 09/10?

Well considering he became the youngest scoring champ in NBA history, accompanied by the fact that he was the first player since Jordan to average over 30 points on a +.60 true shooting percentage for an entire season, leads me to believe it was the most impressive scoring season since Jordan's incredible years.

Da Knicks
09-08-2011, 03:35 PM
It's far from an easy call especially if your going to vote for Melo. Other players have much better cases than Melo

Want to take this to the knicks forum lil bro!:p

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-08-2011, 04:14 PM
No, they lay off Bron because you would rather 45% from 19 feet than give him a full head of steam at the rim, where he shoots nearly perfect. But that doesn't change the numbers. LeBron is more efficient from everywhere, outside the 3 (which as I stated, Melo had a complete outlier this season).

And yes, Melo's terrible shot selection, and the fact that he constantly is a league leader in shots blocked, hurts his efficiency. But isn't that what we are measuring here?

I agree n disagree @ the same time. While Lebron has improved teams go to a zone in the playoffs every year not only bcuz it keeps him out the paint. It's bcuz the pure scorer (Lebron ) loses his confidence after a couple misses. When you need him to knock down that jumper more often than not he's missing. He's clearly the the better player than Melo but the eye test shows Lebron's lack of shooting dooms him. He's the only megastar I would not trust taking huge shots outside 10-15 feet. A pure scorer can't lose confidence in his shot IMO. No post game & A very streaky midrange game that teams encourage you to take. Melo is far from perfect but if Lebron had his arsenal he'd be a multiple Champion already. It's gonna seem biased since I'm a knicks fan but long b4 he came to NY I always felt Melo was and is more offensively polished.

RZZZA
09-08-2011, 04:48 PM
That is completely 100% false. He's one of the few guys in the nba anymore who actually knows how to play the mid-range game. But im assuming you have only watched melo in NY where he did shoot a lot more 3's but seriously as far as best mid-range game in the nba its dirk and melo easily.

uh no...i'm afraid the shooting %'s don't indicate this.

from 3-9 feet Melo shoots around 30%. From 9-15 feet Melo shoots around 35%

from 3-9 feet Dirk shoots around 45%. From 9-15 feet Dirk shoots around 47%

Melo is nowhere near as good as Dirk or Durant from mid range

Ciruam
09-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Durant does it more in volumes as apposed to Melo who IMO between the both of them is more efficent

juno10
09-08-2011, 05:02 PM
Durant does it more in volumes as apposed to Melo who IMO between the both of them is more efficent

actually its the other way around.

Slimsim
09-08-2011, 05:07 PM
I wonder what Knicks fans excuse is now as to why Durant is worse than Melo, since they can't use the "HE'S NEVER BEEN TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS" crap anymore.

He got shutdown by tony Allen and kinda disappear in the playoff while Westbrook took 30 shots

Baller1
09-08-2011, 05:24 PM
Durant does it more in volumes as apposed to Melo who IMO between the both of them is more efficent

http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27030243

Durant is far and away the most consistent scorer in the NBA. No one is even close either.

RZZZA
09-08-2011, 05:25 PM
^ dirk is more efficient than Durant, I don't know what you mean by 'consistent' though. Dirk is consistently good from everywhere on the floor

Ciruam
09-08-2011, 05:30 PM
actually its the other way around.

It's your opinion and your entitled to that, but when they handcuffed Westbrook Durant was taking over 23 plus shots a game in the playoffs after that.Melo took less than 20 against Boston and with less help because everybody was hurt on N.Y.

ChiTownPacerFan
09-08-2011, 05:31 PM
The more I think about this question, the more I think LeBron is the right answer.

Believing Dirk and Durant are better pure scorers than LeBron is tantamount to saying Larry Bird and George Gervin are better pure scorers than Michael Jordan.

Just because one player is clearly the better overall player, that doesn't mean he can't also be the better pure scorer.

Kashmir13579
09-08-2011, 05:37 PM
That's what the stats indicate.
Last season Melo was assisted on around 48% of his shots in Denver and on 46% of his shots in New York. Durant was assisted on 62% of his shots.

Amongst elite SF's he's one of the most higher assisted ones. Lebron James and Rudy Gay are two of the least assisted ones.


Look.... if you're charged with creating for yourself as much as some of these guys are, I understand why your efficiency might not be as high.

Good stuff, dude. That right there accounts for Durant being more efficient.

Kashmir13579
09-08-2011, 05:40 PM
Would you categorize a scorer as one who doesn't score efficiently enough to be considered a pure scorer?

Can a pure scorer not have a great maximization of his scoring opportunities?

Just curious, I actually agree with your definition by the way.

I think "pure scorer" has more to do with skillset than it does efficiency.

LOOTERX9
09-08-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm a knick fan but I admit Durant is a better pure scorer than melo. Melo can score and scores alot of points but Durant scores even more points per game than melo. So that would make him a little better scorer than melo is. But melo is a great scorer also but durant is the 2 time scoring champ.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 05:53 PM
What is the OPs definition of a pure scorer and why are Durant & Carmelo the leading candidates? Both of their career playoff FG% are exactly 42%. They aren't very good scorers overall because they don't hit a high percentage of their shots against the better teams with the top defenses. LeBron gets all the flack, but Carmelo & Durant have had more than just 1 bad series, they've been flat out putrid at times through playoff series.

Carmelo takes a lot of ill advised shots, and Durant doesn't drive to the basket nearly enough. Their scoring ability has far more holes than Wade, LeBron, or even Kobe.

OlivaThor
09-08-2011, 05:56 PM
Monta Ellis

naps
09-08-2011, 05:58 PM
The more I think about this question, the more I think LeBron is the right answer.

Believing Dirk and Durant are better pure scorers than LeBron is tantamount to saying Larry Bird and George Gervin are better pure scorers than Michael Jordan.

Just because one player is clearly the better overall player, that doesn't mean he can't also be the better pure scorer.

Agreed 100%.

Quietmoney
09-08-2011, 06:16 PM
Have any of you guys watched what happened when Melo plays Durant?? If you don't know let me tell you... Melo kills him. I don't wanna hear that Durant is the best pure scorer in the league when you let 6'3 jason kidd lock you up repeatedly. The guy is 6'11 and couldn't score on jason kidd. Put kidd on Melo and watch what happens. As soon as the playoffs come around, there is always someone to check Durant. There is no one to check Melo. Gonna have to do it with help to stop that dude. Dirk gets off the way he does because there is no one that contest with his size and mobility. That makes his efficiency go up dramatically because the way the game is, there aren't much mobile big men that can defend the perimeter.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 06:46 PM
Carmelo has been stopped plenty of times... hence the 37% FG% he shot in the playoffs for the Knicks this very season, as well as the 32% against Wolves in 04 playoffs, 33% against Clippers in 06 playoffs, and 36% against Lakers in 08 playoffs.... all of these were on way to a first round KO. Also in 09 the year he finally got out of the first round, people put the blame on a couple errant inbound passes as to why the Nuggets couldn't beat the Lakers, but the truth is Carmelo nearly shot them out of every game.

Carmelo's poor IQ prevents anyone from donning him the title of best scorer. If he played smarter this title could be his.

Dolfan305
09-08-2011, 06:47 PM
they aren't great shooters like Durant and Dirk.
Lebron shot 45% from midrange. I don't care if you say it's because defenders backed off of him so he couldn't drive, that's their problem. Lebron made them pay. He was 2nd in the nba in scoring and

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 06:54 PM
The more I think about this question, the more I think LeBron is the right answer.

Believing Dirk and Durant are better pure scorers than LeBron is tantamount to saying Larry Bird and George Gervin are better pure scorers than Michael Jordan.

Just because one player is clearly the better overall player, that doesn't mean he can't also be the better pure scorer.

I would like you to explain that point. Michael Jordan has arguably the most complete offensive repertoire of any player in NBA history.

I can't see any way shape or form LeBron could go ahead of Melo, Durant, Kobe, Dirk etc

TheChamp
09-08-2011, 06:57 PM
All Melo CAN do is score.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 06:57 PM
Back to this pure scorer theme...

A pure scorer should be able to create something out of nothing consistently. Instead Durant and Carmelo have been scoring off of their teammates and always post a higher assisted % of FGs than Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. Just as an example using this past season's numbers LeBron 32%, Wade 37% and Kobe 37%.... Carmelo 46%, Durant 62%. This is not new... every year for the past 4 years they have been higher than those 3 (didn't search farther back because Durant wasn't in league). PFs & Cs need the ball passed to them so their high assisted % has some logic to it. Carmelo and Durant on the other hand are just simply playing off the ball a lot more than other scorers and can't create the same volume of shots other players can. Their efficiency plummets when they try to create a lot of shots.

TheChamp
09-08-2011, 06:58 PM
I would like you to explain that point. Michael Jordan has arguably the most complete offensive repertoire of any player in NBA history.

I can't see any way shape or form LeBron could go ahead of Melo, Durant, Kobe, Dirk etc

Completely agree, LeBron may be the best player in the league, but when it comes to a pure scorer LeBron doesn't compare to the others.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 07:05 PM
Completely agree, LeBron may be the best player in the league, but when it comes to a pure scorer LeBron doesn't compare to the others.

Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't saying "doesn't compare" sound a bit overboard considering he was the 1st or 2nd highest scorer in the NBA for the past 4 seasons straight? All while doing it on a good FG%?


We aren't talking Allen Iverson here where he's one of the top scorers but doing it in the low 40s.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 07:05 PM
Back to this pure scorer theme...

A pure scorer should be able to create something out of nothing consistently. Instead Durant and Carmelo have been scoring off of their teammates and always post a higher assisted % of FGs than Kobe, Wade, and LeBron. Just as an example using this past season's numbers LeBron 32%, Wade 37% and Kobe 37%.... Carmelo 46%, Durant 62%. PFs & Cs need the ball passed to them so their high assisted % has some logic to it. Carmelo and Durant on the other hand are just simply playing off the ball a lot more than other scorers and can't create the same volume of shots other players can. Their efficiency plummets when they try to create a lot of shots.

So because Durant is highly assisted on he isn't a pure scorer? LeBron is a freak and is more of a point forward. Kobe and Wade are guards with better handles. Kevin Durant can get his shot any time he want's he may not have the shot creation ability of others but he makes up for that with his ability to effectively run around screens.

Using %AST as an a lone indicator of a player's pure scoring ability is extremely biased. Melo creates for himself just fine but as a conventional SF compared to guards he is expected to have a higher %AST.

It's only logical and commons sense. I don't understand the sole use of %AST as the means for saying that these players aren't as good pure scorers. It's in no way correct.

So because Dirk has the higher %AST of all of these guys he isn't even included?

You know what's just as important and in many cases more important that creating your own shot? Putting yourself in a position to score. Kevin Durant does that better than anyone on this list and that's why scoring comes so easy for him.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't saying "doesn't compare" sound a bit overboard considering he was the 1st or 2nd highest scorer in the NBA for the past 4 seasons straight? All while doing it on a good FG%?


We aren't talking Allen Iverson here where he's one of the top scorers but doing it in the low 40s.

I think your understanding of what a "pure scorer" is is totally off and that's why you haven't been able to grasp the concept of this thread.

Using FG% and %AST as your only reasons as to why a player is a better pure scorer than another really isn't telling us very much.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 07:14 PM
So because Durant is highly assisted on he isn't a pure scorer? LeBron is a freak and is more of a point forward. Kobe and Wade are guards with better handles. Kevin Durant can get his shot any time he want's he may not have the shot creation ability of others but he makes up for that with his ability to effectively run around screens.

Using %AST as an a lone indicator of a player's pure scoring ability is extremely biased. Melo creates for himself just fine but as a conventional SF compared to guards he is expected to have a higher %AST.

It's only logical and commons sense. I don't understand the sole use of %AST as the means for saying that these players aren't as good pure scorers. It's in no way correct.

So because Dirk has the higher %AST of all of these guys he isn't even included?

You know what's just as important and in many cases more important that creating your own shot? Putting yourself in a position to score. Kevin Durant does that better than anyone on this list and that's why scoring comes so easy for him.
The simplest of things seem to go over your head.

You mention Dirk when I, clear as it ever could possibly be done, said PFs need the ball passed to them. For that reason alone, I'm going to save myself the frustration of explaining the same simple concepts of what my stance is on scorers over and over and over and over, and am not even going to bother responding to anything else you type towards me in this thread.

TheChamp
09-08-2011, 07:18 PM
Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't saying "doesn't compare" sound a bit overboard considering he was the 1st or 2nd highest scorer in the NBA for the past 4 seasons straight? All while doing it on a good FG%?


We aren't talking Allen Iverson here where he's one of the top scorers but doing it in the low 40s.

Yes I know that LeBron has been that good, BUT he is somebody you wouldn't consider in this conversation as he works around the ball more HELPING HIS TEAM IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE while guys like Melo, Durant, Kobe, etc. just try to score every possession and can in almost any way.

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 07:22 PM
The simplest of things seem to go over your head.

You mention Dirk when I, clear as it ever could possibly be done, said PFs need the ball passed to them. For that reason alone, I'm going to save myself the frustration of explaining the same simple concepts of what my stance is on scorers over and over and over and over, and am not even going to bother responding to anything else you type towards me in this thread.

:laugh2:

Your problem is your reasoning is biased and without form of common sense. The average SF needs the ball passed to them as well. Durant is actually below average for a SF for %AST.

But you're right. Only a SG or a point forward can be a pure scorer. :rolleyes:

It's so funny that you say the simplest things go over my head since you can't even comprehend what the thread is even about. You create your opinion, think it's right and everyone else is wrong and when someone corrects you you run. :pity:

ChiTownPacerFan
09-08-2011, 07:22 PM
I would like you to explain that point. Michael Jordan has arguably the most complete offensive repertoire of any player in NBA history.

I can't see any way shape or form LeBron could go ahead of Melo, Durant, Kobe, Dirk etc

Exactly, and LeBron has the most complete offensive repertoire of any player currently in the NBA. The fact that Bird was a better shooter doesn't make M.J. less of a pure scorer, just like the fact that Dirk and Durant are better shooters doesn't make LeBron less of a pure scorer.

For the record, LeBron has a higher 3 point percentage for his career than M.J. Scoring isn't just about shooting 3's.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Yes I know that LeBron has been that good, BUT he is somebody you wouldn't consider in this conversation as he works around the ball more HELPING HIS TEAM IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE while guys like Melo, Durant, Kobe, etc. just try to score every possession and can in almost any way.

Going off of your definition of a pure scorer, isn't that what LeBron was basically forced to do his entire time in Cleveland?

Anyway, I'm not saying your opinion of LeBron is wrong of you putting others ahead of him... I just thought the "doesn't compare" sounds a bit unrealistic considering his ranking among top scorers every year.

Dolfan305
09-08-2011, 07:24 PM
Have any of you guys watched what happened when Melo plays Durant?? If you don't know let me tell you... Melo kills him. I don't wanna hear that Durant is the best pure scorer in the league when you let 6'3 jason kidd lock you up repeatedly. The guy is 6'11 and couldn't score on jason kidd. Put kidd on Melo and watch what happens. As soon as the playoffs come around, there is always someone to check Durant. There is no one to check Melo. Gonna have to do it with help to stop that dude. Dirk gets off the way he does because there is no one that contest with his size and mobility. That makes his efficiency go up dramatically because the way the game is, there aren't much mobile big men that can defend the perimeter.

Durant averaged 29 points per game in the playoffs on 45% shooting. Carmelo averaged 26 on 37%.

Dolfan305
09-08-2011, 07:27 PM
I think this pure scorer thing is just something for you Melo fans to talk about, because that's all he is...a pure scorer

c0rbz
09-08-2011, 07:37 PM
Kobe.

naps
09-08-2011, 07:40 PM
Going off of your definition of a pure scorer, isn't that what LeBron was basically forced to do his entire time in Cleveland?

Anyway, I'm not saying your opinion of LeBron is wrong of you putting others ahead of him... I just thought the "doesn't compare" sounds a bit unrealistic considering his ranking among top scorers every year.

I don't understand why LeBron can't be considered the best scorer either. If Melo is here then LeBron has to be here as well. Melo doesn't do anything better than LeBron besides posting up. LeBron was the better mid-range shooter (his weakness on many people's eyes) last year, so please don't come up with Melo is the better shooter crap. There is reason why LeBron has been consistently among the top of scoring list every year. And he does it very very efficiently. More efficiently the most mentioned here.

TheChamp
09-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Going off of your definition of a pure scorer, isn't that what LeBron was basically forced to do his entire time in Cleveland?

Anyway, I'm not saying your opinion of LeBron is wrong of you putting others ahead of him... I just thought the "doesn't compare" sounds a bit unrealistic considering his ranking among top scorers every year.

Ok, LeBron is one of the best scorers in the league but he's still not a pure scorer. Pure scorers can use almost every aspect of their offense effectively (layups, mid range jumpers, 3 pointers, driving inside, posting up, etc.) LeBron though, still has some of these aspects to work on such as his jumper and post moves. If he could make these better he wouldn't just be the best scorer in the league but maybe the best pure scorer as well........

Swashcuff
09-08-2011, 07:58 PM
I don't understand why LeBron can't be considered the best scorer either. If Melo is here then LeBron has to be here as well. Melo doesn't do anything better than LeBron besides posting up. LeBron was the better mid-range shooter (his weakness on many people's eyes) last year, so please don't come up with Melo is the better shooter crap. There is reason why LeBron has been consistently among the top of scoring list every year. And he does it very very efficiently. More efficiently the most mentioned here.

I agree that LeBron belongs as part of the discussion but he doesn't necessarily have as strong a case as others. He has a stronger case for best scorer in the league than he does for best pure scorer.

If LeBron is indeed better pure scorer could you explain his Finals performance? IMO the best pure scorer in the NBA doesn't shoot just 90 FGs (3rd on his team) and 20 FTs (4th on his team) in a 6 game series. That's not showing great killer instinct nor great aggression on offense. IMO there are both qualities of a great pure scorer even if he she doesn't shoot a very good % from the field/line.

beasted86
09-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Ok, LeBron is one of the best scorers in the league but he's still not a pure scorer. Pure scorers can use almost every aspect of their offense effectively (layups, mid range jumpers, 3 pointers, driving inside, posting up, etc.) LeBron though, still has some of these aspects to work on such as his jumper and post moves. If he could make these better he wouldn't just be the best scorer in the league but maybe the best pure scorer as well........

Then that isn't consistent reasoning that coincides with the OP putting Carmelo & Durant ahead of most of the league. Durant has as weak a post game as LeBron, and is barely average at best at driving... and also Carmelo is only a mediocre 3PT shooter and seems to settle a lot of the time when it's clear he has the ability to create a higher percentage FG and drive more often.

All I'm saying is as LeBron has holes in his game, so do any of the elite scorers in the NBA. So this threshold between "best scorers" and "pure scorers" doesn't seem to remain constant. The only guy I can even think of that combines those skillsets you mentioned was prime Paul Pierce. Everyone else I can think of is lacking in at least 1 or 2 areas.

juno10
09-08-2011, 09:40 PM
It's your opinion and your entitled to that, but when they handcuffed Westbrook Durant was taking over 23 plus shots a game in the playoffs after that.Melo took less than 20 against Boston and with less help because everybody was hurt on N.Y.

no its not my opinion its a fact, it like saying derrick rose averages more points than durant imo. its not right look at the efficiency numbers durant is much more efficient.

Baller1
09-08-2011, 10:19 PM
^ dirk is more efficient than Durant, I don't know what you mean by 'consistent' though. Dirk is consistently good from everywhere on the floor

Read the article in my post.

AIRMAR72
09-08-2011, 10:41 PM
best pure scorer i say zack randolph, dirk nowitski, montae ellis ,brandon roy, paul pierce, wesley matthews, kevin durant,pau gasol and mark gasol

meloman1592
09-08-2011, 10:59 PM
best pure scorer i say zack randolph, dirk nowitski, montae ellis ,brandon roy, paul pierce, wesley matthews, kevin durant,pau gasol and mark gasol

No melo or kobe? You know nothing

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-09-2011, 09:00 AM
Carmelo has been stopped plenty of times... hence the 37% FG% he shot in the playoffs for the Knicks this very season, as well as the 32% against Wolves in 04 playoffs, 33% against Clippers in 06 playoffs, and 36% against Lakers in 08 playoffs.... all of these were on way to a first round KO. Also in 09 the year he finally got out of the first round, people put the blame on a couple errant inbound passes as to why the Nuggets couldn't beat the Lakers, but the truth is Carmelo nearly shot them out of every game.

Carmelo's poor IQ prevents anyone from donning him the title of best scorer. If he played smarter this title could be his.

WHen ur forced to be the primary scorer bad shots are necessary. You are right about Melos decision making but you can't use that Celtic series when he played by himself and almost won us 2 games by himself. And every player has been stopped b4.

PlezPlayDKnicks
09-09-2011, 09:13 AM
Heat fans can't be happy that they have the best overall player in the NBA . I can't believe with Lebrons Jumpshot and post woes how he's considered a pure scorer.He has no reliable go to moves or post game or consistent jumpshot to make a legitimate case for pure scorer. I'd be happy that he does everything else great and he's working on improving on his flaws offensively. He can score with the best of them on talent alone but he has a lot to refine in his offensive skill set

mjm07
09-09-2011, 09:45 AM
Then that isn't consistent reasoning that coincides with the OP putting Carmelo & Durant ahead of most of the league. Durant has as weak a post game as LeBron, and is barely average at best at driving... and also Carmelo is only a mediocre 3PT shooter and seems to settle a lot of the time when it's clear he has the ability to create a higher percentage FG and drive more often.

All I'm saying is as LeBron has holes in his game, so do any of the elite scorers in the NBA. So this threshold between "best scorers" and "pure scorers" doesn't seem to remain constant. The only guy I can even think of that combines those skillsets you mentioned was prime Paul Pierce. Everyone else I can think of is lacking in at least 1 or 2 areas.

Great point. :clap:

NYman15
09-09-2011, 10:00 AM
I have Melo. He can just score in a ton of different ways and is virtually unstoppable.

ShakeN'Bake
09-09-2011, 10:03 AM
Its definitely Melo