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RevisIsland
08-23-2011, 11:42 PM
Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever to grace the sport of basketball with his presence. As such, he has altered the legacies of some of the game's other greatest players, but who's legacy did he affect most? Here are the candidates that come to my mind:

Hakeem: His two titles are seen as cheapened because "MJ wasn't there"

Karl Malone: Had he been playing anyone but MJ in the finals, he'd likely have two rings.

Scottie Pippen: What kind of player would he have been without MJ?

Kobe Bryant: Will Kobe's achievements forever be cheapened because he never quite measured up to MJ?

LeBron: The man who was supposed to be the heir to his airness, 8 seasons in he's ringless, will he forever be known as the guy with the talent to surpass Jordan but not the drive?

Other: any ideas?

tredigs
08-23-2011, 11:47 PM
Well, Charles Barkley immediately comes to mind. One of the more unstoppable offensive forces in the games history - who some considered the best player on the original Dream Team - but still, amazing as he was, Jordan managed to outplay him in the Finals.

llemon
08-23-2011, 11:50 PM
Pippen

ewmania
08-23-2011, 11:51 PM
wow this is a great thread... best i've seen in a while... interesting points

karl malone, bryant

malone would have 2 rings, bryant wouldnt be so underrated in many peoples minds

barkley i can't really say because alot of others stopped him from getting a ring besides jordan, and I believe houston would of beat bulls in 94 thats just my opinion

netsgiantsyanks
08-23-2011, 11:54 PM
from the choices and the explanations, i'd choose malone

Chacarron
08-23-2011, 11:55 PM
What about Phil Jackson's legacy? Michael Jordan was more than instrumental in building up Phil Jackson's legacy.

netsgiantsyanks
08-23-2011, 11:55 PM
wasn't around for the golden mj era

MrfadeawayJB
08-24-2011, 12:06 AM
I would agree that he greatly affected Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Karl Malone-John Stockton's legacy. But a dark horse for this discussion should be Byron Scott. The proclaimed Jordan stopper will never live down that game winning jumper Michael hit over him

Ezio
08-24-2011, 12:07 AM
Mugsy Bones.

RevisIsland
08-24-2011, 12:08 AM
wow this is a great thread... best i've seen in a while... interesting points

karl malone, bryant

malone would have 2 rings, bryant wouldnt be so underrated in many peoples minds

barkley i can't really say because alot of others stopped him from getting a ring besides jordan, and I believe houston would of beat bulls in 94 thats just my opinion

I agree with these. A physically and mentally drained MJ (remember, this would have been the season after the death of his father) with a bland supporting cast (I doubt Kukoc comes with MJ around) with no fresh blood wasn't beating Hakeem. At least in my opinion. Of course, we are talking about Michael Jordan here. So you never know. I'd personally take the Rockets, but damn it's close. There are so many examples, I doubt anyone could think of them all (i.e, me missing Barkley and Phil Jackson, and though he hasn't been mentioned yet, Patrick Ewing). It's a very interesting topic in my mind.

*Silver&Black*
08-24-2011, 12:17 AM
Dominique Wilkins

JordansBulls
08-24-2011, 12:18 AM
Karl Malone

Hellcrooner
08-24-2011, 12:28 AM
Sam Bowie.

No one would remember him now, and those who did would remember him just as a good career starter that could have been an allstar if not for injuries.

Instead, he is remembered as a BUST .

llemon
08-24-2011, 12:31 AM
I agree with these. A physically and mentally drained MJ (remember, this would have been the season after the death of his father) with a bland supporting cast (I doubt Kukoc comes with MJ around) with no fresh blood wasn't beating Hakeem. At least in my opinion. Of course, we are talking about Michael Jordan here. So you never know. I'd personally take the Rockets, but damn it's close. There are so many examples, I doubt anyone could think of them all (i.e, me missing Barkley and Phil Jackson, and though he hasn't been mentioned yet, Patrick Ewing). It's a very interesting topic in my mind.

Very nice explanation for your opinion.

Of course, my opinion is that you are wrong on quite a few levels.

But, that's what makes the world go around.

Law25
08-24-2011, 12:37 AM
Dream and Kobe, because Jordan transcended winning to the point that were no longer critizing great players who couldnt win. Were crtizing winners.

*Silver&Black*
08-24-2011, 12:48 AM
team play.

MFFL==FML
08-24-2011, 12:51 AM
Dirk Nowitzki... Had MJ not approved of the deal for Chandler to be traded for Eric Dampier and some bad contracts (Najera/Carroll), Dirk would probably be ringless.

Thanks MJ! :D

koLohe2133
08-24-2011, 12:58 AM
Kwame brown and Adam Morrison come to mind....

Really though, I think it has to be Karl Malone and John Stockton...the 2nd highest scorer and the assist leader are both rindless due to MJ specifically.

Hellcrooner
08-24-2011, 01:04 AM
team play.

good one.

THE GIPPER
08-24-2011, 01:04 AM
Phil Jackson

Avenged
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Karl Malone came first to my mind.

He was a couple of championships away of making himself a sure top 10 player of all-time.

There's also no doubt that Phil Jackson benefited from Jordan, and vice versa.

Kyben36
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Bryant for me. Pippen below but not by much. but nobody will ever know how good Pippen is.

People know Bryant is one of the best players in the game, but he will never live up to jordon, and has allways been chasing him. along with Lebron james. it also hurts becuase he is in the exact same system as well.

nickdymez
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Karl malone, stockton, and barkley.

Malone and stockton would have beaten any other eastern team. So would those suns. Kobe won 5 rings after the Jordan era so it doesnt count.. Lebron is only compared to jordan by his stans and stat maniacs. People with true knowledge of the game dont do that. Scottie would have been great, but he surely would'nt have won 6 championships.

MJ-BULLS
08-24-2011, 01:09 AM
Karl Malone and Charles Barkley Come immediately to mind from back in the day.

Both players could have easily won at least one championship. Kobe Bryant is the one player from today's game that MJ effected.

THE GIPPER
08-24-2011, 01:14 AM
In todays game jordan effected (affected?) everyone. All the guys who try to get the game winner going 1 on 1 and forcing up a shot in the nba today do it because thats what jordan did. Unfortunately nobody can replicate it and have the success jordan had doing it.

AIRMAR72
08-24-2011, 01:19 AM
pat ewing, john starks and the knicks, glenn rice and brain shaw and the miami heat, nick anderson and dennis scott and the orlando magic just a few name of some good and great players who wasnt able to win NOTHING because of Micheal AIR Jordan and the bulls

Tony_Starks
08-24-2011, 02:51 AM
I say Malone, Stockton, GP and Shawn Kemp. Malone and Stockton would've got themselves at least one ring and GP and Kemp would've been one of the most exciting young combo's to win a ring.

Doesn't affect Kobe because they're different eras.

Doesn't affect the Dream because there was no way in hell the Bulls would have made a historic 4 peat of Hakeems Rockets that year. That man was completely unstoppable that playoffs and the Bulls wouldn't have been able to double him because he was surrounded by shooters.....

Gootie42
08-24-2011, 03:04 AM
I agree with these. A physically and mentally drained MJ (remember, this would have been the season after the death of his father) with a bland supporting cast (I doubt Kukoc comes with MJ around) with no fresh blood wasn't beating Hakeem.

Kukoc signed with the Bulls on July 19, 1993.

Jordan retired October 6, 1993.

MTar786
08-24-2011, 03:25 AM
the only thing hakeems rings tell me is how 'not so great' the other teams were other than the bulls.

the rockets were like the 4th or 5th seed and the 7th or 8th seed and they go back.

the spurs, rockets, magic, knicks, suns, jazz were all good.. but nothing so impressive.

JordanPippen
08-24-2011, 03:28 AM
First off, great thread. I would say Malone for the reasons other posters have already mentioned.

MTar786
08-24-2011, 03:28 AM
I say Malone, Stockton, GP and Shawn Kemp. Malone and Stockton would've got themselves at least one ring and GP and Kemp would've been one of the most exciting young combo's to win a ring.

Doesn't affect Kobe because they're different eras.

Doesn't affect the Dream because there was no way in hell the Bulls would have made a historic 4 peat of Hakeems Rockets that year. That man was completely unstoppable that playoffs and the Bulls wouldn't have been able to double him because he was surrounded by shooters.....

agree.. dream was unstopable! He became one of my fav players ever after that season. but i only agree because jordans bulls would have been drained after winning 3 in a row.. they would have just been way too tired and banged up. had it not been for fatigue.. the bulls would have beaten the 94 rockets

MTar786
08-24-2011, 03:31 AM
to answer the question
I think kobes career has been affected the most. He will never live up to the jordan overworked hype.. no one will. If you reincarnated MJ and his name was jerry jones and he did almost the exact same stuff mj did.. even he wouldnt live up to the mj hype. its impossible.. there will only be another jordan when people just let jordan go

YourTeamSucks
08-24-2011, 03:36 AM
Barkley

AsiandudePH
08-24-2011, 05:38 AM
to answer the question
I think kobes career has been affected the most. He will never live up to the jordan overworked hype.. no one will. If you reincarnated MJ and his name was jerry jones and he did almost the exact same stuff mj did.. even he wouldnt live up to the mj hype. its impossible.. there will only be another jordan when people just let jordan go

Great point. I agree with this.

kingkenny01
08-24-2011, 07:30 AM
I hate the knicks but easily Patrick Ewing Sr. and that knicks team, Reggie Miller, Barkely , John Stockton and Karl Malone
Anyone who was great but did win a championship in that time

kingkenny01
08-24-2011, 07:31 AM
did not win^

utahjazzno12fan
08-24-2011, 07:47 AM
Sloan-Stockton-Malone

todu82
08-24-2011, 08:17 AM
Karl Malone. Had it not been for Jordan the Mail Man probably would have won a NBA title during his career.

Da Knicks
08-24-2011, 09:59 AM
Big Pat Ewing by evidence of the disrespect he gets on psd, the knicks, bulls playoffs where great. The Knick teams the bulls beat had to be some of the best defensive teams ever.

synister281
08-24-2011, 10:13 AM
#1 - Patrick Ewing
Ewing vs the Bulls in the early 90s was some of the most intense basketball you'd ever see. The rivalry was incredible. Brutal defense on both ends and some of the closest games in playoff history. Jordan was simply too good at that point in his career, and Ewing knew it. Then when MJ retired in 93, Ewing even said its HIS time to win, yet couldn't get it done in the Finals when he finally had his chance.

#2 - Karl Malone
Two years in a row, they were an amazing team. They marched to the Finals twice to only get beat by an MJ who was on his elite status. Malone then tried the Lakers and threw away his roots with the Jazz who couldn't beat the Bulls and still couldn't get that ring.

Two of the NBA's greats who lived in Jordan's shadow.

THE_FLASH_21
08-24-2011, 10:56 AM
Stockton & Malone... will never forget those years. Remember it was yesterday .....

THE_FLASH_21
08-24-2011, 10:58 AM
#1 - Patrick Ewing
Ewing vs the Bulls in the early 90s was some of the most intense basketball you'd ever see. The rivalry was incredible. Brutal defense on both ends and some of the closest games in playoff history. Jordan was simply too good at that point in his career, and Ewing knew it. Then when MJ retired in 93, Ewing even said its HIS time to win, yet couldn't get it done in the Finals when he finally had his chance.

#2 - Karl Malone
Two years in a row, they were an amazing team. They marched to the Finals twice to only get beat by an MJ who was on his elite status. Malone then tried the Lakers and threw away his roots with the Jazz who couldn't beat the Bulls and still couldn't get that ring.

Two of the NBA's greats who lived in Jordan's shadow.



well said..:clap:

gwrighter
08-24-2011, 01:04 PM
team play.

has to be this for sure.

valade16
08-24-2011, 01:05 PM
to answer the question
I think kobes career has been affected the most. He will never live up to the jordan overworked hype.. no one will. If you reincarnated MJ and his name was jerry jones and he did almost the exact same stuff mj did.. even he wouldnt live up to the mj hype. its impossible.. there will only be another jordan when people just let jordan go

The problem with this is no one has come close to the combined individual and team success Jordan had. 6 rings and 4 MVPs. He led the league in scoring 8 straight times, and 10 years overall. He won DPOY and led the league in scoring in the SAME season.

LeBron has to win 6 titles, 2 more MVPs, a DPOY, and lead the league in scoring 9 more times to even get to his level. Think about that for a second...

We can't tell if someone doing what MJ did would get overshadowed because, simply put, no one's come close.

Tony_Starks
08-24-2011, 01:51 PM
agree.. dream was unstopable! He became one of my fav players ever after that season. but i only agree because jordans bulls would have been drained after winning 3 in a row.. they would have just been way too tired and banged up. had it not been for fatigue.. the bulls would have beaten the 94 rockets


Exactly there's a reason that nobody has 4 peated in the modern era of basketball. It's damn near impossible. Thats why I laugh at people that made such a huge deal over the Lakers losing this year and how they went out. Im like "you DO understand they were going for a 4peat right?"

nickdymez
08-24-2011, 01:56 PM
Exactly there's a reason that nobody has 4 peated in the modern era of basketball. It's damn near impossible. Thats why I laugh at people that made such a huge deal over the Lakers losing this year and how they went out. Im like "you DO understand they were going for a 4peat right?"

Well they were actually going for a three-peat.. But i get your point. I was telling people the same thing..

jrice9
08-24-2011, 02:03 PM
Exactly there's a reason that nobody has 4 peated in the modern era of basketball. It's damn near impossible. Thats why I laugh at people that made such a huge deal over the Lakers losing this year and how they went out. Im like "you DO understand they were going for a 4peat right?"
But the Lakers were not going for a 4 peat?

They had won the previous two titles, not three

avon_barksdale
08-24-2011, 02:11 PM
any1 who got a sneaker deal

Hawkeye15
08-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Malone/Stockton, and Barkley.

I am not so sure Duncan would be considered the best PF of all time had Barkley and Malone won championships. And I am almost certain that Stockton would be ranked over Magic as the top PG to ever play if he had won a couple of rings.

I don't think he has much effect on players that didn't play in his era. Not to their legacy anyways.

Dream still won 2 rings. So I dropped him from the debate as well

MR.TRIPDUB
08-24-2011, 02:26 PM
Clyde the glide Drexler. If he was from any other era... Now hes almost an afterthought. A poormans MJ.

Tony_Starks
08-24-2011, 02:28 PM
Well they were actually going for a three-peat.. But i get your point. I was telling people the same thing..


Im trippin, still daydreaming that we beat Boston the first time! lol

clehmun
08-24-2011, 03:02 PM
Im trippin, still daydreaming that we beat Boston the first time! lol

the fatigue point is still valid because they were in the finals 3 years in a row going for fourth.

KingPosey
08-24-2011, 03:18 PM
Not Hakeem so much because he DID win 2, even if it was when Jordan wasnt present. I would say he kinda screwed over Malone( Stockton also), Barkley, and Ewing.

nycsports2
08-24-2011, 03:29 PM
being a knicks fan patrick ewing... how many ships would ewing and the knicks have won?????

KingPosey
08-24-2011, 03:37 PM
Malone/Stockton, and Barkley.

I am not so sure Duncan would be considered the best PF of all time had Barkley and Malone won championships. And I am almost certain that Stockton would be ranked over Magic as the top PG to ever play if he had won a couple of rings.

I don't think he has much effect on players that didn't play in his era. Not to their legacy anyways.

Dream still won 2 rings. So I dropped him from the debate as well

I really kind of agree with you on that Hawkeye, Im glad you said it.

sep11ie
08-24-2011, 03:39 PM
Didn't Hakeem's Rockets have a winning record against Jordan's Bulls during their time in their respective primes? I'm not sure there, just think I may have heard that somewhere.

As for the thread, I believe he has affected every single player to pick up a basketball from then on's legacies. Every kid playing basketball always wants to be the "next Jordan", whether they admit it or not.

KingPosey
08-24-2011, 03:52 PM
So many of you guys are right with these names Payton, Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Barkley, Hakeem, etc. He devastated his whole generation of competition.

I always talk about Mitch Richmond, but he has to be in the mix. The guy Jordan respected as his toughest opponent, possibly the best SG of his generation behind Jordan, people dont realize how good he was.

Jordan kept him off of first team NBA, defense, etc, every year for a decade, and MJ is the only player that could have done that to him like that.

spurs21
08-24-2011, 04:03 PM
i believe that jordan along with everyone in the dreamteam affected basketball in a global perspective. i mean not just everyone wanted to be like mike in the U.S, but he also influenced players like Pau,Manu,Petrovic,Dirk and other international teams to get better.

koreancabbage
08-24-2011, 06:05 PM
MJ's legacy ruined all the SG's legacy in this league lol

smiddy012
08-24-2011, 09:17 PM
Malone/Stockton/Ewing/Olajuwon/Kemp/Payton/Barkley all were forced to take a back-seat to Michael. Then you got Scottie and Phil. Rodman also - his career/life could've gone down the whole almost any place except Chicago (because of MJ and the organization's leadership).

If I had to pick one... and its tough I'd say Olajuwon because he won two championships in his day but, being a Bulls fan, I didn't even know about it until reading the original post. Maybe thats because I saw the other players more vs the Bulls growing up, but it seems HOs legacy has been over-shadowed most by MJ. If it weren't for MJ HO has 3 or more championships you have to think. HO probably had the best chance of dominating the 90s w/o MJ - not that I'm 100% sure on this.

Bullsfan22
08-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Karl Malone would be considered the best PF of all-time if it wasn't for MJ imo.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-24-2011, 09:34 PM
I agree with these. A physically and mentally drained MJ (remember, this would have been the season after the death of his father) with a bland supporting cast (I doubt Kukoc comes with MJ around) with no fresh blood wasn't beating Hakeem. At least in my opinion. Of course, we are talking about Michael Jordan here. So you never know. I'd personally take the Rockets, but damn it's close. There are so many examples, I doubt anyone could think of them all (i.e, me missing Barkley and Phil Jackson, and though he hasn't been mentioned yet, Patrick Ewing). It's a very interesting topic in my mind.

Good points.

But, 1st off I think the 95 rockets team was better of the 2. I seriously doubt a cast of Hakeem, Maxwell, otis thorpe, and kenny smith would have taken down Jordan and Pippen. Now add Drexler to that group in 95 and now we have a discussion.

2nd, MJ was 6 for 6 in finals. I'm just going to go by the odds here and say if he was there in 94 and 95, at minimum they win 1 of those titles, most likely both, at least 94.

3mikee_
08-24-2011, 09:35 PM
Pippen for me... somebody who probably would've been a much better player statistically if he didn't play with MJ... but then again maybe he was as good as was because of MJ something we will never know.

And I don't agree with what you said about LeBron... there are a lot of players who "had the talent" or was suppose to be the heir to MJ but failed whether it be injury or lack of commitment to get better. LeBron's problem is just rings... I've even heard arguments that he's already better than MJ which is ridiculous, but if and when he gets the rings I'm sure he'll be considered one of the greatest if not the greatest of all time.

Pierzynski4Prez
08-24-2011, 09:41 PM
Pippen for me... somebody who probably would've been a much better player statistically if he didn't play with MJ... but then again maybe he was as good as was because of MJ something we will never know.

And I don't agree with what you said about LeBron... there are a lot of players who "had the talent" or was suppose to be the heir to MJ but failed whether it be injury or lack of commitment to get better. LeBron's problem is just rings... I've even heard arguments that he's already better than MJ which is ridiculous, but if and when he gets the rings I'm sure he'll be considered one of the greatest if not the greatest of all time.

Remember Harold Minor? Baby jordan. That was funny.

Raph12
08-25-2011, 01:30 AM
Basically each and every elite player in league history has had MJ's legacy affect his own in one way or another... I'm going to say Kobe just because MJ had set the bar so high, that no matter how similar Kobe's game was to MJ's or how well Kobe fared, he would never amount to what MJ has done.