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asandhu23
08-23-2011, 07:55 AM
Memo to NBA players: It's time to wave the white flag.

Or at least put the menacing stares and looks of exasperation away for a while and insert a few (dozen) more concessions into the next proposal to force those draconian owners back to the negotiating table before things get even worse.

As the lockout approaches its two-month mark and with just one full-blown meeting having taken place since it began, the harsh reality is that the leverage players wanted so badly doesn't seem to exist.

The international job options that were limited to begin with are shrinking by the day. Euroleague officials are claiming disinterest in the idea of signing NBA players who are under contract, and the Chinese Basketball Association recently announced that it won't allow opt-out clauses in contracts, even if doing so means it can't have Kobe Bryant.

Decertification remains an option for the players, although dissolving the union would do immense damage to both sides, and it would only extend this sluggish situation considering the league filed a litany of preemptive lawsuits in early August. The NBA's message to its players: Go ahead and decertify, but run the risk of voiding all current contracts while continuing to avoid our inevitable victory.

The self-employment route is also a non-starter as a business strategy. Players are learning the hard way how vital the league's marketing machine is with sponsorship and television money. Exhibit A was there for all to see on Saturday night -- as long as you paid the $4.99 user fee charged by a startup basketball website that streamed the Drew League vs. Goodman League game.

It didn't matter how many stars played in the East vs. West battle of pro-am leagues at Trinity University in Washington, D.C., as numerous major television networks (including ESPN and Fox Sports) passed on the chance to air the game because -- as one involved person surmised -- one night of good business with the millionaire talent wasn't worth ticking off the billionaire bosses. Which says nothing of the endless problems the event had with the online streaming, paying customers getting stuck outside the venue and players griping about the not-so-small officiating snafu, in which Drew players weren't told until the final minutes that they could not foul out.

Some exhibition games overseas have proved to be plenty profitable for the players. But there's a limited shelf life for such opportunities and the All-Star style of competition is hardly enough to fuel their competitive fire.

There is one reason, and one reason alone, why the players aren't rolling over in this labor standoff: the expectation/belief/hope that the owners will be divided at some point in time. It is their slightest sliver of hope, the reason they continue to scoff at the league's attempt at a collective bargaining overhaul intended to shore up the $300 million in losses it cites from last season, when 22 teams were said to be in the red. That offer from the owners features a $62 million "flex" salary cap, which the players say is a hard cap in disguise (compared to the current $58 million soft cap). The plan also includes a drastically reduced split on basketball-related income that would start out as a 50-50 split and eventually could result in less than 40 percent for the players in 2016-17 (compared to the current 57-43 split that favors the players or the 54 percent players' portion already offered in the union's latest proposal).

The hoped-for fracture might start with Jerry Buss or Donald Sterling in Los Angeles, or Jerry Reinsdorf in Chicago, or James Dolan in New York. In the eyes of so many players and the folks who represent them, someone from a large market will eventually raise his hand and ask out of this lockout game. This owner would explain how the old system worked just fine for his team and how it's no longer in his best interest to support this cause.

He would be followed by a few more of the fattest cats whose finances are just fine, and then there would be weeping from small- and mid-market owners who have dreamed of a system makeover. The players, who would have missed many months of paychecks by this hypothetical point, would rejoice in that seemingly plausible scenario.

But here's the thing about this premise that has so much to do with the current state of affairs: I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

There's nary a sign of the owners backing down. Not now. Not ever. Their lack of urgency is rooted in the unofficial and universal agreement that it's worth losing an entire season if there isn't serious progress forged by the players. And while the players' desire to fight back is certainly understandable, the truth is that this slope will only get more slippery if there isn't resolution in the next month.

The owners' offers will get worse because they will begin to account for the losses that come with losing games, all while players -- whose average career length was reported as 4.82 seasons during the last lockout, in 1999 -- will see an entire season's pay go to waste. As one agent said for the umpteenth time last week, "Billionaires beat millionaires every time."

While owners rake in local television revenues that continue during a lockout and offer the sort of financial bloodline union members could surely use right now, most of the players will start missing paychecks in mid-November. And maybe that's when the end game will finally become clear.

That view has been reinforced in discussions with owners who sound just as militant now as they did a year ago. I've seen the gleeful look in a large-market owner's eye when he discusses the league's dream scenario, a system in which cost certainty aids the business side and the basketball landscape is more competitive because super teams like the one in Miami simply aren't possible anymore. I've inquired recently about the owners' level of unity, and heard the chuckle on the other end of the phone after asking if any of the big-city boys have expressed concern about the possibility of sacrificing an entire season to make these changes.

Despite the league's threats of seven-figure fines for discussing the lockout or the ones being locked out, Bobcats owner Michael Jordan -- the boyhood idol to many in the league -- recently made clear his view that the players need to give in here.

"The model we've been operating under is broken," he told the Sydney Herald Sun, while also discussing Australian native and Milwaukee center Andrew Bogut. "We have 22 or 23 teams losing money, [so] I think we have gotta come to some kind of understanding in this partnership that we have to realign."

Yet even the words of His Airness aren't likely to spark a resolution anytime soon. The new system would create an earnings divide between the league's superstars and their less-talented colleagues almost as wide as the current negotiating gap, meaning the player masses (and their agents, of course) are left scrambling for ways to turn this labor tide.
According to one agent who was briefed on the owners' proposal, Lamar Odom potentially would see his salary plummet from $8.9 million to $2.6 million next season.
According to one agent who was briefed on the owners' proposal, Lamar Odom potentially would see his salary plummet from $8.9 million to $2.6 million next season.
AP

As described by one such agent who was briefed about the owners' proposal and what it would mean, a player such as Lakers forward Lamar Odom would see his salary plummet from $8.9 million to $2.6 million next season, according to the union officials putting on the presentation. Such stark propositions have created a climate that another agent recently deemed "odorous," with the bad blood and bitterness continuing to rise while the emotions do nothing to help with a solution.

As commissioner David Stern asserted in a recent podcast with ESPN's Bill Simmons when asked about the absurd lack of urgency from all involved, a recent meeting that was scheduled between the two sides never took place because of the owners' refusal to heed the union's request for another proposal. And while the NBPA has been updating players and agents on the labor situation in a series of regional talks that will continue this week, it's the meetings that include both sides that are needed at the moment. Stern estimated the two would meet in the coming weeks, but it's not known whether those sessions have been scheduled yet.

"[The owners] worrying who has the leverage today or momentum or how we can break the union, to me, misses the point," said New York-based agent Marc Cornstein, who is closer to the talks than most of his peers. "You have a sport that's in the healthiest place it's been in, some people would argue, ever. You have an economy and a world where there's complete turmoil and uncertainty. I think we need to start finding solutions, not leverage.

"If we miss games, it would be detrimental to the sport. ... And that doesn't mean the players should accept a horrible deal, or the owners should accept one that's prohibitive for them, but no one is going to convince me we can't find a solution and I think it's time to start doing it."

One league source said the next Board of Governors meeting has been scheduled for Sept. 15 in Dallas, where the owners will have their own gathering and -- just my prediction here -- no one will be asked to bring a white flag. Here's to hoping the players stop by to wave one of their own.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/08/22/nba.labor.talks/index.html#ixzz1VqteUPRn

Antipod
08-23-2011, 09:04 AM
I got bored just scrolling this ..... x)

pacofunk64
08-23-2011, 09:45 AM
I got bored just scrolling this ..... x)

:laugh: I read the first sentence & thought the same thing.

idrinkpepsi
08-23-2011, 10:30 AM
I've been saying this for awhile, the players need to give in.

asandhu23
08-23-2011, 10:36 AM
I've been saying this for awhile, the players need to give in.

Coca Cola >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pepsi

gwrighter
08-23-2011, 10:50 AM
The players don't have a choice but to give in. They are making WAY more than the average NHL, NFL, or MLB player. the system that's in place now was designed to keep the great teams together using exceptions to the cap rules because that is what was profitable in the past. But now, local fans lose interest in basketball when their team drops off because it takes SO LONG to build a winning team in today's system. Contract length needs to decrease, player salary needs to come down.

THE GIPPER
08-23-2011, 11:00 AM
The players have absolutely no leverage. 22 out of the 30 owners save money by not having a season so why would they give in to the players?

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 11:07 AM
the players will lose...

people need to wake up... the players have no options, no way to even come close to NBA money and lifestyle... even with the new agreement, they will be the highest paid pro athletes...

THE GIPPER
08-23-2011, 11:16 AM
Before the nhl had its lockout and implemented the hard cap the players were getting paid less than they are now. Basically the hard cap just creates parity.

Hawkeye15
08-23-2011, 11:30 AM
The players will need to give in at some point. They can come with 1-2 issues as sticking points, but the system is broken, and nearly 70% of the league is losing money. This means the owners will be more than happy to not even have a season until they get a deal where most/all teams are making a profit.

As said a ton of times. Billionaires beat millionaires every time.

rapjuicer06
08-23-2011, 12:08 PM
The players will need to give in at some point. They can come with 1-2 issues as sticking points, but the system is broken, and nearly 70% of the league is losing money. This means the owners will be more than happy to not even have a season until they get a deal where most/all teams are making a profit.

As said a ton of times. Billionaires beat millionaires every time.

Exactly. There is a reason why the owners are Billionaires. They are so much more business savvy, and when you get a bunch of them together the players have no chance in hell

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Exactly. There is a reason why the owners are Billionaires. They are so much more business savvy, and when you get a bunch of them together the players have no chance in hell

your sense of logic & reasoning on this surprises me... :D:clap:

Wrench
08-23-2011, 12:28 PM
Unlike with the NFL, with the NBA players they have alot more choices in where to play. And as we have seen alot of players have already signed contracts, there isn't going to be a NBA for at least one season that's for sure.

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 12:34 PM
Meanwhile scrub players Reggie Williams and Rasual Butler sign deals today to go overseas. But Im supposed to believe the small time players don't have opportunities to play elsewhere? Ok sure.

In a nutshell the bottom tier players are getting deals, the superstars can go wherever they want, and a large contingent of players seem content to just chill at home on last years fat paycheck and wait it out so what makes you think the players would fold anytime soon? They've already went on record and said if they accept this deal it would be the worst one in sports history......

Also the owner quote about a system where "superteams like Miami just aren't possible" seems pretty bitter and pathetic to me.

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Unlike with the NFL, with the NBA players they have alot more choices in where to play. And as we have seen alot of players have already signed contracts, there isn't going to be a NBA for at least one season that's for sure.

what's a lot??? 5??


Meanwhile scrub players Reggie Williams and Rasual Butler sign deals today to go overseas. But Im supposed to believe the small time players don't have opportunities to play elsewhere? Ok sure.

both players are free agents... how many contracted players have signed???

and that brings the total signed players to what? out of 450... it's not enough to make an impact...


In a nutshell the bottom tier players are getting deals, the superstars can go wherever they want, and a large contingent of players seem content to just chill at home on last years fat paycheck and wait it out so what makes you think the players would fold anytime soon? They've already went on record and said if they accept this deal it would be the worst one in sports history......

the players can't hold out as long as the owners, which is the whole idea... the clubs losing money are content with not losing for a year, and the clubs earning money will earn ridiculous amounts of money once the deal is signed... the owners can last much much longer than the players...

asandhu23
08-23-2011, 12:55 PM
btw... Reggie Williams isn't a scrub. He is a decent free agent who can make shots. Vladimir Radmanovich on the other hand defines scrub.

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 01:12 PM
what's a lot??? 5??



both players are free agents... how many contracted players have signed???

and that brings the total signed players to what? out of 450... it's not enough to make an impact...



the players can't hold out as long as the owners, which is the whole idea... the clubs losing money are content with not losing for a year, and the clubs earning money will earn ridiculous amounts of money once the deal is signed... the owners can last much much longer than the players...


Who says the players can't wait just as long? The bottom guys (contracted included) are getting deals daily and the superstars can wait until forever. You really think guys like Kobe or Lebron will be hurting for paychecks anytime soon?

The owners may save money by not cutting checks but they're losing money on fans walking away and all the negative PR they will be getting the longer this drags because at the end of the day they're the ones saying take it or leave it and locking them (and the fans) out.

Did you read the article? If a player like Lamar would go from 8mil to 2mil then what about a guy like say Kyle Korver whats he going to go from 5mil to 1mil? There would no longer be a middle class pay its superstars and everyone else. We're talking about slashing contracts by more than half, why on earth would any player agree to that?

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 01:13 PM
btw... Reggie Williams isn't a scrub. He is a decent free agent who can make shots. Vladimir Radmanovich on the other hand defines scrub.


Im speaking contract wise. He's not a huge money guy.

rapjuicer06
08-23-2011, 01:17 PM
your sense of logic & reasoning on this surprises me... :D:clap:

Just because we don't agree on Rose doesn't mean we can't agree on other things

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 01:28 PM
Just because we don't agree on Rose doesn't mean we can't agree on other things

amen, brother

C_Mund
08-23-2011, 01:32 PM
There definitely has to be some kind of middle ground on this. I mean, it can't be that hard to make a contract realignment where the more you make, the higher percentage you get cut back. Like, if you make over 20 mil, you give back 15 percent. If you make 15-20 you give back 10 percent and so on. This keeps everybody in the same echelon of pay they were in and easily gives back the 300+ that was lost.
Obviously it's not that easy, but if you just cut all the red tape it shouldn't be all that hard.
...however, no matter what happens in the end the owners have lost their players' trust for pretty much ever. I think we'll see a new kind of mentality from NBA players whenever this is over.

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 01:33 PM
Who says the players can't wait just as long? The bottom guys (contracted included) are getting deals daily and the superstars can wait until forever. You really think guys like Kobe or Lebron will be hurting for paychecks anytime soon?

The owners may save money by not cutting checks but they're losing money on fans walking away and all the negative PR they will be getting the longer this drags because at the end of the day they're the ones saying take it or leave it and locking them (and the fans) out.

i understand what you're talking about... but the players are actually doing the opposite by finding work, continuing to play, and draw attention to basketball... the fans want to see the players play, they could care less about the owners and their agendas... if a lot of players play anywhere, it will just sustain the interest from the fans and there will me just as many fans who want to go back to the NBA once the stars return... this is all of course my opinion...


Did you read the article? If a player like Lamar would go from 8mil to 2mil then what about a guy like say Kyle Korver whats he going to go from 5mil to 1mil? There would no longer be a middle class pay its superstars and everyone else. We're talking about slashing contracts by more than half, why on earth would any player agree to that?

the point is, it's more money than they could make anywhere else... so, while they may not like it, it's still the best situation for them, and they will agree to it...

llemon
08-23-2011, 02:08 PM
Exactly. There is a reason why the owners are Billionaires. They are so much more business savvy, and when you get a bunch of them together the players have no chance in hell

If they are so business savvy, how come 22 out of 30 of them are (supposedly, but I don't believe it) losing money, and paying Stern $23 mil per year for that privilege?

Corey
08-23-2011, 02:16 PM
btw... Reggie Williams isn't a scrub. He is a decent free agent who can make shots. Vladimir Radmanovich on the other hand defines scrub.

Williams is actually ridiculously effective. Obviously, he needs to be in a limited role, but his PPP was 1.08 which was good for 14th overall. His offense is basically catch and shoot with not much of anything else, but he does it well.

In catch and shoot situations, he averaged 1.29 PPP which ranks 7th overall. Not shabby.

Slimsim
08-23-2011, 02:24 PM
THe players will give in. When will they is the million dollar question.

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 02:31 PM
If they are so business savvy, how come 22 out of 30 of them are (supposedly, but I don't believe it) losing money, and paying Stern $23 mil per year for that privilege?

because they operate in a system that forces them to overpay in order to get medium talent to even consider them as an option, or have a team at the bottom of the talent pool with no fan interest or possibility of competitiveness and revenue...

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 02:42 PM
You really can't buy into what Stern says though he uses very deceptive language. For example he loves to through in the players faces that by average they are "the highest paid athletes in any sport." Hmmm lets see do you think by chance that has anything to do with spreading money between 12 guys as opposed to spreading it among 30+ guys like football and baseball?

gwrighter
08-23-2011, 02:52 PM
^doesn't matter, they are still the highest paid athletes in North American pro sports.

llemon
08-23-2011, 03:17 PM
because they operate in a system that forces them to overpay in order to get medium talent to even consider them as an option, or have a team at the bottom of the talent pool with no fan interest or possibility of competitiveness and revenue...

To quote Ted Turner when pulling a contract offer to Atlanta Braves slugger Bob Horner off the table....

"We finished 5th with you, we can finish fifth without you."

The system allows for overspending by allowing teams that are millions of dollars over the cap to still sign major dollars on FAs through the MLE, which causes teams with capspace to overpay FAs to keep them away from Lakers, Heat, Knicks, Celts etc.

Eliminating the MLE would be the start of parity and fiscal responsibility.

Shmontaine
08-23-2011, 03:25 PM
To quote Ted Turner when pulling a contract offer to Atlanta Braves slugger Bob Horner off the table....

"We finished 5th with you, we can finish fifth without you."

The system allows for overspending by allowing teams that are millions of dollars over the cap to still sign major dollars on FAs through the MLE, which causes teams with capspace to overpay FAs to keep them away from Lakers, Heat, Knicks, Celts etc.

Eliminating the MLE would be the start of parity and fiscal responsibility.

hmm... seems to me that was a resigning of a player in your scenario...
then you go to MLE which only applies to free agents going to new teams...

the two are not comparable, IMO... and it also appears you agree that the system is broken...

the three nba teams that were purchased in the last 3 years (nets, wizards, and warriors) were the 3 highest prices for purchases in the league history, i believe... do you think the owners would have bought these teams without some assurances that this new CBA wouldn't allow them to make that money back?? the owners knew this was coming for years, and they know they are going to win... that's the only reasonable explanation for these purchases... unless, of course, you believe that these billionaires don't know what they're doing...

llemon
08-23-2011, 03:36 PM
hmm... seems to me that was a resigning of a player in your scenario...
then you go to MLE which only applies to free agents going to new teams...

the two are not comparable, IMO... and it also appears you agree that the system is broken...

the three nba teams that were purchased in the last 3 years (nets, wizards, and warriors) were the 3 highest prices for purchases in the league history, i believe... do you think the owners would have bought these teams without some assurances that this new CBA wouldn't allow them to make that money back?? the owners knew this was coming for years, and they know they are going to win... that's the only reasonable explanation for these purchases... unless, of course, you believe that these billionaires don't know what they're doing...

You mean billionaires like the ones that have supposedly been losing $300 mil
a year?

And Horner was a FA. Braves had no special rights to him

And the MLE is not good for parity, which as a fan is my personal concern.

Oh, and SI is owned by Time Warner, which also owns TNT, which gets some of its income by televising NBA games. You think the SI article might be a little slanted?

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 03:37 PM
This article gives another take on the situation. Long story short it asserts that the while changes need to be made the model is not "broken" and the league is trying to pull a fast one......



http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/6/30/2252062/nba-lockout-2011-news-david-stern-proposal-deadline

Wrench
08-23-2011, 08:22 PM
what's a lot??? 5??



Yea 5...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/08/03/overseas/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_bf3_a4

More like 45 and this is just the guys who have signed early. Alot have said they would sign to play once the season rolls around and no deal is in place.

ESPN lists the guy who have interest.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6793510/nba-overseas-player-movement

Tony_Starks
08-23-2011, 08:41 PM
Yea 5...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/08/03/overseas/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_bf3_a4

More like 45 and this is just the guys who have signed early. Alot have said they would sign to play once the season rolls around and no deal is in place.

ESPN lists the guy who have interest.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/6793510/nba-overseas-player-movement


Thats pretty cool, I didn't know they were tracking it. Thats a good deal that some of the rookies found teams because they were the ones that were really getting screwed by this deal. They didn't have any money to begin with so the lockout truly leaves them in the cold.

Now at least they can make a little money and probably get way more playing time and experience than they would've got anyway.....

The owners can front like this doesn't bother them but when you see guys like Kobe, Dwight, Melo, Durant, D Wade etc.. on the interested list you can't tell me the owners of their teams are perfectly happy to let their franchise guy go play overseas while they sit on their hands.

llemon
08-23-2011, 10:33 PM
Thats pretty cool, I didn't know they were tracking it. Thats a good deal that some of the rookies found teams because they were the ones that were really getting screwed by this deal. They didn't have any money to begin with so the lockout truly leaves them in the cold.

Now at least they can make a little money and probably get way more playing time and experience than they would've got anyway.....

The owners can front like this doesn't bother them but when you see guys like Kobe, Dwight, Melo, Durant, D Wade etc.. on the interested list you can't tell me the owners of their teams are perfectly happy to let their franchise guy go play overseas while they sit on their hands.

Owners and their lackeys are the equivilant of politicians and their flunkies, trying to lie their way into making the public believe whatever statements they deem to release to the great unwashed.

Southsideheat
08-24-2011, 12:22 PM
The NBA is a "star" driven league, not a "pretty good player" driven league. If i'm Kobe, Lebron, Dirk, Pierce ect. i would be kind of pissed that guys like Michael Redd made $18 mill last year. The success of the league doesn't come from guys like Michael Redd. The players need to start realizing that.

ManRam
08-24-2011, 12:36 PM
I've been saying this for awhile, the players need to give in.

I agree. Blame the owners for getting into this problem if you want (which isn't entirely fair), but what they want needs to happen for the league to continue to grow and be successful. The players have all the power...and it's a more player-driven league than any other sport I can think of.

I think this article is spot on. I've stated my opinions a million times, and this is a pretty close representation of how I feel. So I don't really have anything else to say.


It just is frustrating that there is no urgency right now...again showing another huge difference between the NFL lockout and this: the players have all the power here, even in the lockout. I've said all along that the NBA players and owners are further apart and will fight harder than their NFL counterparts, and it's really beginning to look like that. I really fear that games will be missed...and lots of them at that.

It is billionaires v. millionaires, but the millionaires have other alternatives (can play overseas) and can more easily shape the face of the league (ie. The Decision) more easily than most owners can. It's a players' league.

sixer04fan
08-24-2011, 12:40 PM
NBA players are already making more than any other sport (except the elite baseball players without a salary cap). Throw that in with the fact that the NBA is the only sport with a salary cap AND guaranteed contracts, it's a no-win for NBA owners.

Players need to give in. Start from scratch. Remodel the system.

sep11ie
08-24-2011, 12:40 PM
Coca Cola >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pepsi

Old Coke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NewCoke

bmd1101
08-24-2011, 07:23 PM
Didn't really bother to read it, SI has a vested interest in the NBA season going forward, just like ESPN/ABC ect ect The players are in control to dictate terms, it's obvious the owners and partners of the NBA are sweatin the players big time. You guys need to look at whats not being said, most words are meaningless in something like this.


Old Coke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NewCoke

Lol? Which one, the original classic formula or the Coke2 that came out in the mid/late 80s? Oh and Pepsi > Coke unless your mixin a drink.

ne3xchamps
08-24-2011, 07:42 PM
I got bored just scrolling this ..... x)

same here. :laugh2: too long of an article.

todu82
08-25-2011, 07:54 AM
I agree. Come on players give in so that we can get a deal done and have a NBA season.

llemon
08-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I agree. Come on players give in so that we can get a deal done and have a NBA season.

C'mon owners, get back to the negotiating table and work out a deal so we can have an NBA season.

asandhu23
08-25-2011, 12:50 PM
Old Coke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NewCoke

The one with cocaine or the one the released with the same formula minus cocaine?

Gators123
08-25-2011, 12:58 PM
For what its worth...

vgoodwill-

Just told by someone in the know that there's no way Odom's salary drops like that in owners proposal

sep11ie
08-25-2011, 01:02 PM
The one with cocaine or the one the released with the same formula minus cocaine?

The one with cocaine of course. I snort that in one nostril and rum in the other.

BTW I do agree,

Pepsi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Coke(not cocaine)