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View Full Version : Kevin Garnett on the Mavs from 2000-2011



JordansBulls
08-18-2011, 08:20 PM
Do the Mavs win any titles with KG during that period on the Mavs in place of Dirk?

LakersMaster24
08-18-2011, 10:05 PM
I think they would have beaten Miami in 2006 if they had KG. They would also have much more success in the playoffs before 2006. KG from (2000-2007) > Dirk (2000-2007).

They would win a championship and earn a couple more Finals appearances.

MiamiWadeCounty
08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
I'd say they would of won at least one and had at least two finals' appearances.

MrfadeawayJB
08-18-2011, 10:21 PM
they would have won the championship in 2006, but other than that no other big successes. They would not get upset like the earlier mavs teams did

thedfactor
08-18-2011, 10:33 PM
KG was a beast back in the day. I still think Dallas would have faired similarly though. At this point still only 1 title.

NSJ
08-18-2011, 10:45 PM
They'd probably have one but I wouldn't be surprised if they had like 2 or 3. I know the Lakers and Spurs dominated the past decade, but so did the west over the east. KG brought even the Twolves to the WCF so it wouldn't surprise me if he had 2 or 3 because he's got the heart and skills to lead a team to the finals.

MacFitz92
08-18-2011, 10:47 PM
No chance at all.

Sadds The Gr8
08-18-2011, 10:48 PM
yes. 1 or 2 for sure. all of Dirk's starting casts are better than anything KG had in Minny.

Slimsim
08-18-2011, 10:53 PM
Not sure Dallas would have beaten that miami squad back in 06 with KG. And i'm dam sure they would have lost in 2011 if KG was on dallas instead of dirk. so i think they have zero titles but come pretty dam close most of the time

Hellcrooner
08-18-2011, 10:59 PM
3 rings more probably.

not this years but definetly 2006 and another 2 in the rest of the lakers vacational period 03-08

LakersMaster24
08-19-2011, 12:03 AM
Not sure Dallas would have beaten that miami squad back in 06 with KG. And i'm dam sure they would have lost in 2011 if KG was on dallas instead of dirk. so i think they have zero titles but come pretty dam close most of the time

Gotta agree with that. Dirk is still a top notch player in the league, while KG is already far far away from his prime.

JasonJohnHorn
08-19-2011, 12:36 AM
Tough call. The one thing the Mavs always lacked, I thought (as well as most everybody), was a center. When they finally got one, they finally won.

KG would have helped them to some deep playoff runs, and I think a line with prime Finley, Nash and Garnett would have been amazing to watch, but they still would have needed a center.

Cano4prez
08-19-2011, 12:37 AM
No chance at all.

:rolleyes:

Hawkeye15
08-19-2011, 12:42 AM
11 rings :)

_KB24_
08-19-2011, 12:48 AM
Hmmm, wonder if we would be talking about Garnett as the GOAT at the PF instead then...

naps
08-19-2011, 01:22 AM
2+ Rings.

MTar786
08-19-2011, 01:39 AM
they would have won in either 05, 06 or 07

OlivaThor
08-19-2011, 04:29 AM
Hard to say, Mavericks was build for styl of Nowitzki, who knows, how will KG fit

ragee
08-19-2011, 07:25 AM
People are saying the Mavs would have beaten the Heat in 06 but would they have gotten in the finals with KG? The Mavs went through hell beating both the Spurs and the Suns before getting to the 06 finals and Dirk was the reason why they beat those teams...

JordansBulls
08-19-2011, 08:43 AM
People who are saying 2006 are you sure they beat the Spurs that year with KG instead of Dirk? Afterall the Spurs had the best record out west that year. I think it is much easier for Duncan to defend KG than it is to defend Dirk because of where he plays.

Shareeb_omac2
08-19-2011, 08:49 AM
No they wouldn't. He wouldn't have fit those teams playstyles. Those teams were built around Dirk.

EDIT: and I'm sorry if people think this is rediculous but I think Dirk is a better player than Garnett.

PrettyBoyJ
08-19-2011, 09:05 AM
I don't think he wins any.. They didnt stand a chance with Lakers from 2000-2002 and then you have the Spurs as well and you cant overlook that good Pistons team in 04 & 05.. 06 when they went to the finals whats to say KG would have gotten past the Spurs, & Suns both had great years.. 07 Maybe they beat the Warriors in the 1st round maybe they dont who Knows.. 08 they would played the Celtics since KG and Dirk switched roles Dirk would be a celtic.. So Maybe Lakers win that series and Pau doesn't get labeled soft, then they have to go against Kobe LEad lakers for 2 years which I dont think they win (all while KG is aging) and then they play the Heats I dont think KG could replicate Dirks Finals performance..

kdspurman
08-19-2011, 09:20 AM
People are saying the Mavs would have beaten the Heat in 06 but would they have gotten in the finals with KG? The Mavs went through hell beating both the Spurs and the Suns before getting to the 06 finals and Dirk was the reason why they beat those teams...

Definitely. :clap: Although Manu helped with that stupid foul on Dirk in OT after he gave them a 3 point lead. He gave it right back :( Still pains me till this day almost as much as .4

JordansBulls
08-20-2011, 01:47 AM
11 rings :)

You don't believe that do you?:)

Cal827
08-20-2011, 01:59 AM
It's hard to tell.. The team dynamic would change completely around KG.. Dirk has more range than Garnett (well able to hit 3s more consistently), while Garnett could pound the ball inside better. With KG, Cuban maybe would have looked for more efficient long range shooters and focus less on getting defensive centers (maybe try to go with duel PFs because of KG's versatility).. This might have prevented Cuban from the usual overspending on centers (like Dampier), most likely allowing Cuban to go after another outside shooter to help KG.... I'll say they would win 2 with KG as the core guy.

Ebbs
08-20-2011, 02:16 AM
what lolz. . . No we would be worse off. KG could not do the things Dirk did offensively. Are we couldn't have gotten away with players like Terry + Howard as #2 options.

Sadds The Gr8
08-20-2011, 02:39 AM
Scoring: Prime Dirk > Prime KG

Every other facet of the game: Prime KG >>>>>>>>> Prime Dirk

MacFitz92
08-20-2011, 03:34 AM
Dirk created/creates mismatches for teams. None of the elite defenders can guard him because of his unique offensive style. The problem for the Mavericks was never Dirk... The problem was having Erica Dampier, Desagana Diop, and Shawn ****in Bradley for our centers. Two of them are famous for getting dunked on.

Dirk about post-'07 ish actually became a solid defender, and now he's imporved even more into a pretty nice one. Not a banger, but good fundementals and length. It just never worked inside with those tall men who were listed as "centers".

Kevin Garnett would've been a worse fit for the team and wouldn't have made Bradley, Diop, or Mrs. Dampier into a good center.

Super.
08-20-2011, 04:05 AM
No chance at all.

Stop. KG was far and away better than Dirk for the majority of the time period. (Obviously not now)

AIsixersFK
08-20-2011, 07:40 AM
none. KG was and still is a very unselfish player at times when he needed to be selfish. Had he not paired with Allen and Pierce do be a recipient of his unselfishness he would never have a ring.

Wilson
08-20-2011, 07:53 AM
I'm not sure if they would have done any better. I think because every game means so much to Kevin Garnett, he would have just been worn out in the play-offs. That happened when the Timberwolves made a run to the Western Conference Finals in 2004, he was at his insane best in the Sacramento series but he seemed spent against the Lakers. Even when he and the Celtics got over the hump in 2008, Garnett wasn't himself in the Finals.

Compare that with the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons and 2006 Heat who all could pace themselves and save their best for April and June.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 10:56 AM
You don't believe that do you?:)

Obviously not haha. But I do think 2-3 is realistic here. KG in his peak was a better 2 way player than Dirk pretty easily. KG was never the scorer Dirk is, but the 4 ppg gap is more than covered in other areas. The team defensive effect KG had was amazing, and the Mavs had plenty of scoring help over Dirk's time there for KG to have the help to win come championships.

2-3 rings is my opinion.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm not sure if they would have done any better. I think because every game means so much to Kevin Garnett, he would have just been worn out in the play-offs. That happened when the Timberwolves made a run to the Western Conference Finals in 2004, he was at his insane best in the Sacramento series but he seemed spent against the Lakers. Even when he and the Celtics got over the hump in 2008, Garnett wasn't himself in the Finals.

Compare that with the Lakers, Spurs, Pistons and 2006 Heat who all could pace themselves and save their best for April and June.

Sam Cassell's hip is what happened. KG had to play out of position and do things he was not accustomed to doing was the main problem.

I get your point, that his intensity was always high. But the very fact that in 2008, he was able to make a finals run and close off game 6 with a 26/14 performance shows that he would have been more than capable as a younger man doing those constantly. KG took care of his body like a temple, so I don't think fatigue would ever have been an issue. I have never seen KG tired.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 10:59 AM
No they wouldn't. He wouldn't have fit those teams playstyles. Those teams were built around Dirk.

EDIT: and I'm sorry if people think this is rediculous but I think Dirk is a better player than Garnett.

if you are going to make a claim like this, please explain.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 11:00 AM
Outside of 03-04', do any of you realize how pathetic KG's help in Minny was? In the super stacked west?

Federal Reserve
08-20-2011, 11:04 AM
Dirk choked plenty of times in the playoffs, when his team was the favorite to win it all. KG would have earned a few rings on that team.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 11:10 AM
Simply put, the Mavs would have been a better defensive team than they were under Dirk, and their offense wouldn't have suffered in the slightest, because of KG's ability to score inside out, and pass the ball at an elite level for a big man. The Mavs had more than enough scoring weapons to help KG win a couple of rings.

THE GIPPER
08-20-2011, 11:18 AM
prime kg and nash would have been deadly

SteBO
08-20-2011, 11:28 AM
Kevin Garnett on the Mavs would have brought 3 rings to Dallas in my opinion. The defensive impact is too much for me to overlook.

Hellcrooner
08-20-2011, 11:31 AM
btw Nash and KG would have become the new stockton Malone.

Wilson
08-20-2011, 11:37 AM
Sam Cassell's hip is what happened. KG had to play out of position and do things he was not accustomed to doing was the main problem.

I get your point, that his intensity was always high. But the very fact that in 2008, he was able to make a finals run and close off game 6 with a 26/14 performance shows that he would have been more than capable as a younger man doing those constantly. KG took care of his body like a temple, so I don't think fatigue would ever have been an issue. I have never seen KG tired.

Good point on Cassell, I completely forgot about that.

In the 2008 finals Garnett was great on the boards but his scoring was nowhere near what would have been needed of him on the Mavericks. He shot 45/105 (.428), and was 35/87 (.402) through the first five games.

With fatigue, I don't think he would have been physically fatigued as much as mentally. I think the amount of pressure put on team leaders in the NBA is really under-estimated, and then you need to factor in how much extra pressure KG put on himself on top of that.

The point about Garnett helping the Mavs defense is a good one, however they still would have been a team built for fast break basketball overall, and I don't think KG alone could have helped them get key stops in the play-offs.

I don't mean to say that Garnett could not have won anywhere during those years, I just don't think the Dirk/KG swap would have been enough to get the Mavs there.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 11:50 AM
Good point on Cassell, I completely forgot about that.

In the 2008 finals Garnett was great on the boards but his scoring was nowhere near what would have been needed of him on the Mavericks. He shot 45/105 (.428), and was 35/87 (.402) through the first five games.

With fatigue, I don't think he would have been physically fatigued as much as mentally. I think the amount of pressure put on team leaders in the NBA is really under-estimated, and then you need to factor in how much extra pressure KG put on himself on top of that.

The point about Garnett helping the Mavs defense is a good one, however they still would have been a team built for fast break basketball overall, and I don't think KG alone could have helped them get key stops in the play-offs.

I don't mean to say that Garnett could not have won anywhere during those years, I just don't think the Dirk/KG swap would have been enough to get the Mavs there.

Obviously its not as simple as just swapping them. In reality, the makeup would have been altered slightly, since KG is more interior oriented than Dirk. But I don't think many realize the defense impact KG has on his teammates either. Listen to Allen and Pierce when KG came to the Celtics. They said they had never been in a practice with that much defensive intensity. KG would have gotten their guys to buy into defense at a higher rate. He owned the glass, and while his scoring isn't what Dirk can do, from 2000-2007, you were getting 20+ a night out of him, period. You were also getting 13-14 boards, and 5+ assists, and a defensive monster. I am basing my 2-3 rings guess on the pure fact that I simply think KG is not only the better overall player, but more of a motivator on the defensive side, leading by example and holding his teammates accountable on that end.

tredigs
08-20-2011, 12:06 PM
I hate alternate Universe NBA questions. The NBA hasn't even officially lost any games yet, and we're down to "Do the Mavs win any titles with KG during that period on the Mavs in place of Dirk?".

Yikes.






All that being said, I think Garnett's impact on a team is IMMENSE (I wish he got MVP in '08, he transformed Boston's defense in 1 season more than I've personally ever seen a player do before) - and it's possible they'd have won a couple ships (even with Dirk being the better offensive player and those Mavs needed that offense).

THE GIPPER
08-20-2011, 12:21 PM
Obviously its not as simple as just swapping them. In reality, the makeup would have been altered slightly, since KG is more interior oriented than Dirk. But I don't think many realize the defense impact KG has on his teammates either. Listen to Allen and Pierce when KG came to the Celtics. They said they had never been in a practice with that much defensive intensity. KG would have gotten their guys to buy into defense at a higher rate. He owned the glass, and while his scoring isn't what Dirk can do, from 2000-2007, you were getting 20+ a night out of him, period. You were also getting 13-14 boards, and 5+ assists, and a defensive monster. I am basing my 2-3 rings guess on the pure fact that I simply think KG is not only the better overall player, but more of a motivator on the defensive side, leading by example and holding his teammates accountable on that end.

IMO his ppg would have gone up by about 5ppg playing with nash. I think a pf like garnett would benifit from nash more than a pf like dirk because dirk is more of a just pass it down and let him go to work and any pg can do that, but nash to garnett on the pick and roll :speechless:.... and garnett was a much better player than amare ever was/is and nash made him look great. It would have been amazing to watch.

Hawkeye15
08-20-2011, 02:32 PM
IMO his ppg would have gone up by about 5ppg playing with nash. I think a pf like garnett would benifit from nash more than a pf like dirk because dirk is more of a just pass it down and let him go to work and any pg can do that, but nash to garnett on the pick and roll :speechless:.... and garnett was a much better player than amare ever was/is and nash made him look great. It would have been amazing to watch.

I agree that if KG had a set up PG with Nash's ability, he would have been an even better scorer, sure. But KG doesn't necessarily have that scorer's mentality. He was more and more aggressive as time went on though.

Wilson
08-20-2011, 08:25 PM
Obviously its not as simple as just swapping them. In reality, the makeup would have been altered slightly, since KG is more interior oriented than Dirk. But I don't think many realize the defense impact KG has on his teammates either. Listen to Allen and Pierce when KG came to the Celtics. They said they had never been in a practice with that much defensive intensity. KG would have gotten their guys to buy into defense at a higher rate. He owned the glass, and while his scoring isn't what Dirk can do, from 2000-2007, you were getting 20+ a night out of him, period. You were also getting 13-14 boards, and 5+ assists, and a defensive monster. I am basing my 2-3 rings guess on the pure fact that I simply think KG is not only the better overall player, but more of a motivator on the defensive side, leading by example and holding his teammates accountable on that end.

I agree with you about Garnett's impact on his team-mates defense, but I think it's also important to note the pre-existing defensive abilities of Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins. Then you also have Tom Thibodeau coaching them, a defensive genius.

The Dallas Mavericks never had a group of players that good defensively and Don Nelson is lightyears behind Tom Thibodeau as far as coaching/preching defense.

If you're swapping a few other players in and out then a lot depends on what the team looks like after that, but for now I stand pat that while Garnett could certainly have won championships with the right team before 2008, I just don't think him and the Mavericks is the right fit :o

sventhedog
08-20-2011, 10:56 PM
Hmmm, wonder if we would be talking about Garnett as the GOAT at the PF instead then...

and he certainly looks like a real goat.

GoPacers33
08-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Would they still have dirk, if so the 3-4

Tony_Starks
08-22-2011, 07:33 PM
Maybe one ring, and thats a HUGE maybe. Shaq/Kobe had the west on lock from 2000-04 and that wouldn't change. Also he could never get with Duncan and that wouldn't change. The only one I could see maybe is against Miami but Wade was a man on a mission so Im not even so sure about that one......

Plus when you switch Dirk for KG for everything you gain defensively you lose offensively so to me thats kinda a wash.

LTBaByyy
08-22-2011, 09:31 PM
The question is how many rings would the Mavs have if we had gotten a top 10 Center earlier than this year, 2000-2011

Dirk wasnt the problem, he has been just as amazing ever since his 2nd year in the NBA



Raef Lafrentz, Wang Zhi Zhi, Shawn Bradley, Desagnia Dip, Erik Dampier, Mbenga have been are centers


Chandler and Haywood made the Mavs Champions and we will see how many more we win


Especially adding Caron Butler, Roddy B, and Rudy Fernandez to a championship team

Wilson
08-22-2011, 09:41 PM
The question is how many rings would the Mavs have if we had gotten a top 10 Center earlier than this year, 2000-2011

Dirk wasnt the problem, he has been just as amazing ever since his 2nd year in the NBA



Raef Lafrentz, Wang Zhi Zhi, Shawn Bradley, Desagnia Dip, Erik Dampier, Mbenga have been are centers


Chandler and Haywood made the Mavs Champions and we will see how many more we win


Especially adding Caron Butler, Roddy B, and Rudy Fernandez to a championship team

That's a good point. I think you have to include the massive improvement in coaching too, and the improved defense at the PG position.

kidinkkk
08-23-2011, 05:31 AM
Hmmm, wonder if we would be talking about Garnett as the GOAT at the PF instead then...

and thats really a shame. rings shouldnt mean anything in terms of being compared to other players. that rings theory is crap. i guess luke walton and dj mbenga are better than john stockton and charles barkley. give me a break.

JordansBulls
08-23-2011, 11:13 AM
The question is how many rings would the Mavs have if we had gotten a top 10 Center earlier than this year, 2000-2011

Dirk wasnt the problem, he has been just as amazing ever since his 2nd year in the NBA



Raef Lafrentz, Wang Zhi Zhi, Shawn Bradley, Desagnia Dip, Erik Dampier, Mbenga have been are centers


Chandler and Haywood made the Mavs Champions and we will see how many more we win


Especially adding Caron Butler, Roddy B, and Rudy Fernandez to a championship team

True, however with KG on the Mavs they wouldn't had needed another defensive center because Garnett provides that.

JordansBulls
08-26-2011, 11:20 AM
Would they still have dirk, if so the 3-4

:confused: