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ChiSox219
08-16-2011, 08:46 AM
what does the top 10 U25 look like?

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 09:06 AM
Based on last season

1. Kevin Durant
2. Derrick Rose
3. Kevin Love
4. Blake Griffin
5. Russell Westbrook

Going forward (3-5 years)

1. Kevin Durant
2. Blake Griffin
3. Derrick Rose
4. Kevin Love
5. Russell Westbrook

Honorable mention Rudy Gay, Al Horford, Andrew Bynum, John Wall and Eric Gordon.

I don't like to include rookies or anyone who hasn't played a game in the league. I am no NBA scout so my opinion (most scouts are worst than me it seems) on those players can be totally off.

UKblazers
08-16-2011, 09:22 AM
1.Dwight Howard
2.Griffin
3.Durant
4.Rose
5.Bynum
6.John Wall
7.Westbrook
8.Ibaka
9.Steph Curry
10.Thaddeus Young

Breakthrough in medical science/Act of God- Greg Oden

Honorable Mention-Evan Turner,Derrick Favors,Nicolas Batum

The thinking is that an elite bigman usually is more valuable than an elite perimeter player despite how good i think Durant and Rose will be. Ibaka i think now that he's free to play the power foward position may begin to challenge Howard for the leauge lead in blocks. And if Oden ever managed to stay on the court(lockout could be beneficial) I think Portlands frontcourt with him,LA and Wallace would just be nasty defensively and on the boards.

Guys like Favors,Batum and Turner all have the talent but aren't completely sure they will ever live up to it yet.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 09:25 AM
1.Dwight Howard
2.Griffin
3.Durant
4.Rose
5.Bynum
6.John Wall
7.Westbrook
8.Ibaka
9.Steph Curry
10.Thaddeus Young

Breakthrough in medical science/Act of God- Greg Oden

Honorable Mention-Evan Turner,Derrick Favors,Nicolas Batum

The thinking is that an elite bigman usually is more valuable than an elite perimeter player despite how good i think Durant and Rose will be. Ibaka i think now that he's free to play the power foward position may begin to challenge Howard for the leauge lead in blocks. And if Oden ever managed to stay on the court(lockout could be beneficial) I think Portlands frontcourt with him,LA and Wallace would just be nasty defensively and on the boards.

Guys like Favors,Batum and Turner all have the talent but aren't completely sure they will ever live up to it yet.

Dwight Howard is 25 and actually turns 26 this year and where is Kevin Love on your list?

UKblazers
08-16-2011, 09:30 AM
Dwight Howard is 25 and actually turns 26 this year and where is Kevin Love on your list?

I thought the list was 25 and under, truth be told i forgot about Love he would probably fit somewhere in the 6-8 range for me.

wjmoffatt
08-16-2011, 10:01 AM
1.Dwight Howard
2.Griffin
3.Durant
4.Rose
5.Bynum
6.John Wall
7.Westbrook
8.Ibaka
9.Steph Curry
10.Thaddeus Young

Breakthrough in medical science/Act of God- Greg Oden

Honorable Mention-Evan Turner,Derrick Favors,Nicolas Batum

The thinking is that an elite bigman usually is more valuable than an elite perimeter player despite how good i think Durant and Rose will be. Ibaka i think now that he's free to play the power foward position may begin to challenge Howard for the leauge lead in blocks. And if Oden ever managed to stay on the court(lockout could be beneficial) I think Portlands frontcourt with him,LA and Wallace would just be nasty defensively and on the boards.

Guys like Favors,Batum and Turner all have the talent but aren't completely sure they will ever live up to it yet.

REALLY?? Blake Griffin over Durrant your argument was lost right there! Not to mention there is no way that John Wall goes over Westbrook who was 2nd team ALL NBA! :facepalm:

wjmoffatt
08-16-2011, 10:08 AM
1.) Durantula
2.) Rose
3.) Westbrook
4.) Bynum (if healthy)
5.) Love
6.) Griffin
7.) Eric Gordon
8.) Tyreke Evans
9.) John Wall
10.) Ricky Rubio/Kyrie Irving

UKblazers
08-16-2011, 10:11 AM
1.) Durantula
2.) Rose
3.) Westbrook
4.) Bynum (if healthy)
5.) Love
6.) Griffin
7.) Eric Gordon
8.) Tyreke Evans
9.) John Wall
10.) Ricky Rubio/Kyrie Irving

Selecting players who have never played a single nba game REALLY? :facepalm:

strahan92osi72
08-16-2011, 10:26 AM
1. Durant
2. Rose
3. Westbrook
4. Griffin
5. Wall
6. Love
7. Curry
8. Bynum
9. Gordon
10. Evans

kozelkid
08-16-2011, 10:45 AM
Selecting players who have never played a single nba game REALLY? You sir are an idiot:facepalm:

Cool it. And what's wrong with selecting players who haven't played?


Anyway, here goes for me.

Durant
Rose
Griffin
Love
Wall (He did have a good rookie season that was shadowed by Griffin's.)
Westbrook
Bynum
Curry
Horford
Gordon

Honorable mention: Watch out for Kyrie Irving. He might not have the elite athleticism that Rose and Wall had coming out of school, but his fundamentals, IQ and footwork is much better. The CP3 comparisons are VERY fair.

Dr.J>YOU
08-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Rose is clearly better than Durant. Durant doesn't have a mvp.

ghettosean
08-16-2011, 12:34 PM
Rose is clearly better than Durant. Durant doesn't have a mvp.
Damn yo!!!

That's cold blooded what this man said here. I was going to put Durant ahead of Rose too but after he talks MVP talk what can you say really!

Good observation!

nickdymez
08-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Everyone in here calling other people idiots should be banned like i was for callin someone an idiot..

Gators123
08-16-2011, 12:47 PM
Rose is clearly better than Durant. Durant doesn't have a mvp.

:laugh2:

DJakk
08-16-2011, 12:50 PM
Durant
Rose
Love
Griffin
Wall

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 12:53 PM
I'd put Rose ahead of Durant too, because Rose has a harder job. All Durant has to do is shoot.

and Blake Griffin is over rated, one trick pony. Well...two tricks if you count the rebounding, which he's very good at. He's gonna be a real beast though in 1 or 2 years

SeoulBeatz
08-16-2011, 12:59 PM
Jrue Holiday
Jrue Holiday
Jrue Holiday
Jrue Holiday
Jrue Holiday

UKblazers
08-16-2011, 01:34 PM
I'd put Rose ahead of Durant too, because Rose has a harder job. All Durant has to do is shoot.

and Blake Griffin is over rated, one trick pony. Well...two tricks if you count the rebounding, which he's very good at. He's gonna be a real beast though in 1 or 2 years

Blake griffin as a rookie power foward still averaged more assists than durant, I think he has a more complete game than you give him credit for.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 01:37 PM
maybe so, maybe so...I'd like to see him expand his range and work on his free throws. As far as intangibles go, I want to see him become a better leader. I don't think he did a very good job picking up the slack when Eric went down.

but he's a rookie so it might be unfair to expect so much out of him.

THE GIPPER
08-16-2011, 01:42 PM
Durant
Blake
Rose
Wall
Westbrook
Love
Eric Gordon
Tyreke
Bynum/Cousins/Favors
Ty Lawson

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 01:49 PM
maybe so, maybe so...I'd like to see him expand his range and work on his free throws. As far as intangibles go, I want to see him become a better leader. I don't think he did a very good job picking up the slack when Eric went down.

but he's a rookie so it might be unfair to expect so much out of him.

He had a rookie season unlike any rookie PF in league history. With his work ethic he is capable of becoming the best player in the NBA in the not too distant future or at least giving the best a serious run for their money.

nickdymez
08-16-2011, 01:51 PM
He had a rookie season unlike any rookie PF in league history. With his work ethic he is capable of becoming the best player in the NBA in the not too distant future or at least giving the best a serious run for their money.

* to me because he got drafted last year. Dumb rule imo..

kdspurman
08-16-2011, 01:56 PM
He had a rookie season unlike any rookie PF in league history. With his work ethic he is capable of becoming the best player in the NBA in the not too distant future or at least giving the best a serious run for their money.

Wow, didn't even realize. I looked at Duncan's rookie stat's and they're fairly similar but I was thinking, ok... Well KG, Barkley, Malone etc would have all been up there. But Griffin's rookie year statistically was much better than those 3. Very impressive. If he works on the fundamentals and continues to improve on the defensive end watch out

Jays Claw
08-16-2011, 02:15 PM
The bottom half of some of these lists are just awful. I see names like Wall, Rubio, Irving and yet no mention of studs like DeRozan, McGee, Gordon etc.

Ebbs
08-16-2011, 02:31 PM
You always know a poster is new when he whips out the facepalm over stupid things

UKblazers
08-16-2011, 02:44 PM
You always know a poster is new when he whips out the facepalm over stupid things

I hope your aware I was joking by repeating the exact same response he had to my list.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 02:55 PM
* to me because he got drafted last year. Dumb rule imo..

I agree. Sitting on the sideline and learning his team, teammates, system, philosophy, opponents etc etc really did him well though he was coming off a major injury he had a season of understanding the NBA under his belt already.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 02:56 PM
The bottom half of some of these lists are just awful. I see names like Wall, Rubio, Irving and yet no mention of studs like DeRozan, McGee, Gordon etc.

Wall is already better than DeRozan and McGee.

nickdymez
08-16-2011, 02:59 PM
I agree. Sitting on the sideline and learning his team, teammates, system, philosophy, opponents etc etc really did him well though he was coming off a major injury he had a season of understanding the NBA under his belt already.

Yea, not to mention a lot of these rookies usually have a hard time with the length of schedule and travel in between. Not taking anything away from him though, he's amazing to me.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 03:05 PM
Wow, didn't even realize. I looked at Duncan's rookie stat's and they're fairly similar but I was thinking, ok... Well KG, Barkley, Malone etc would have all been up there. But Griffin's rookie year statistically was much better than those 3. Very impressive. If he works on the fundamentals and continues to improve on the defensive end watch out

In terms of the combination of Points, Rebounds and Assists we've never seen a rookie PF. 22, 12 and 3. Sidney Wicks, Tim Duncan and Bob Pettit were the closest. Now I'm not saying Blake's was the best but it was however unique.

theheatles
08-16-2011, 03:16 PM
Dwight Howard <--- 25 yrs old and U25 means 25 and under
Durant
Blake
Westbrook
Love
Jrue Holiday
John Wall

CeeDub15
08-16-2011, 04:30 PM
1.Dwight Howard
2.Griffin
3.Durant
4.Rose
5.Bynum
6.John Wall
7.Westbrook
8.Ibaka
9.Steph Curry
10.Thaddeus Young

Breakthrough in medical science/Act of God- Greg Oden

Honorable Mention-Evan Turner,Derrick Favors,Nicolas Batum

The thinking is that an elite bigman usually is more valuable than an elite perimeter player despite how good i think Durant and Rose will be. Ibaka i think now that he's free to play the power foward position may begin to challenge Howard for the leauge lead in blocks. And if Oden ever managed to stay on the court(lockout could be beneficial) I think Portlands frontcourt with him,LA and Wallace would just be nasty defensively and on the boards.

Guys like Favors,Batum and Turner all have the talent but aren't completely sure they will ever live up to it yet.

lol, Kevin Love???

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 04:42 PM
My all 25 or less team:

PG- Wall, Irving
SG- Rose, Gordon
SF- Durant, Young
PF- Griffin, Love
C- Howard, Lopez

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 04:46 PM
^lol, Rose is not a shooting guard :facepalm:

He's never played the 2 in his entire life, he can't defend 2's, he's too small to play the 2...

Cal827
08-16-2011, 04:52 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Blake Griffin
3. Derek Rose
4. Russel Westbrook
5. Gordon (Clippers)
6. Tyreke Evans
7. Kevin Love
8. John Wall
9. Ty Lawson
10. Demar Derozan

PacersForLife
08-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Durant
Rose
Westbrook
Griffin
Love
Wall
Eric Gordon
Cousins
DeRozan
Paul George

TheRunKiller
08-16-2011, 05:11 PM
Dwight Howard <--- 25 yrs old and U25 means 25 and under
Durant
Blake
Westbrook
Love
Jrue Holiday
John Wall

:facepalm: ignore list

juno10
08-16-2011, 05:16 PM
I'd put Rose ahead of Durant too, because Rose has a harder job. All Durant has to do is shoot.

and Blake Griffin is over rated, one trick pony. Well...two tricks if you count the rebounding, which he's very good at. He's gonna be a real beast though in 1 or 2 years

yea all durant has to do is shoot:rolleyes:,atleast he can shoot.

TheRunKiller
08-16-2011, 05:18 PM
yea all durant has to do is shoot:rolleyes:,atleast he can shoot.

he better know how to shoot because he can't do anything else very good.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 05:21 PM
he better know how to shoot because he can't do anything else very good.

I know just like Dirk right? :rolleyes:

TheRunKiller
08-16-2011, 05:25 PM
aww sticking up for his buddy, what are you guys? the ambiguously gay duo?

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 05:28 PM
aww sticking up for his buddy, what are you guys? the ambiguously gay duo?

Thank you for such an adult reply. :pity:

Corey
08-16-2011, 05:46 PM
Wall is already better than DeRozan and McGee.

Ehhh. McGee, okay...But Derozan had quite the season last year.

17 points, 4 boards, 2 assists on an EFG of .490 and a TS% of .530. He also had a slightly higher WS/48 than Wall, and played the entire season.

They may be on the same level, but I wouldn't say that Wall has instantly eclipsed Derozan. He progressed a ton last year.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 05:46 PM
yea all durant has to do is shoot:rolleyes:,atleast he can shoot.



I think my comment was 100% correct, a PG's job is always more difficult than a wing players job. Well, not always, but usually.

Rose has to facilitate, score, be the leader of his team, be the go-to guy in late game situations, create for himself. Durant has Westbrook to set him up, he's way more assisted on his shots. Durant has an easier time than Rose.

Corey
08-16-2011, 05:48 PM
^lol, Rose is not a shooting guard :facepalm:

He's never played the 2 in his entire life, he can't defend 2's, he's too small to play the 2...

I wouldn't say he's to small to play the 2 offensively. Monta can do it, and Rose is more built than Monta.

Also, Tony Allen is considered one of the premier defensive 2 guards right now, and they're about the same size.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 05:50 PM
ok, but Rose has never played that position. He's an elite #1, why would anybody who was smart and reasonable take a player out of the position he's elite at and stick him in a position he's never played before? makes no sense

juno10
08-16-2011, 05:54 PM
ok, but Rose has never played that position. He's an elite #1, why would anybody who was smart and reasonable take a player out of the position he's elite at and stick him in a position he's never played before? makes no sense

he probably played it more thank you think, i remember he use to guard a lot of sg's when kirk hinrich was in town.

SeoulBeatz
08-16-2011, 06:19 PM
1) Kevin Durant
2) D.Rose
3) Blake Griffin
4) Russ Westbrook
5) Kevin Love
6) Eric Gordon
7) John Wall
8) Tyreke Evans
9) Jrue Holiday
10) Ty Lawson

naps
08-16-2011, 06:21 PM
Durant
Griffin
Rose
Wall
Love

OlivaThor
08-16-2011, 06:32 PM
1, Kevin Durant for sure
2, Blake Griffin
3, Kevin Love
4, Derrick Rose
5, Eric Gordon
6, Russel Westbrook
7, Marc Gasol
8, Andrew Bynum - So overrated for me
9, Tyreke Evans
10, Roy Hibbert - Maybe not, but iīm a big fan of this guy
Btw my first reply in PSD

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 07:04 PM
^lol, Rose is not a shooting guard :facepalm:

He's never played the 2 in his entire life, he can't defend 2's, he's too small to play the 2...

Meh.. id rather have an actual playmaker run my offense and Wall has the physical tools to be a better pg defender. I would rather play small ball with that team and let Rose and Westbrook do what they does best, which is score (hopefully in under 30 shots). Rose is big. I think he could play SG well enough

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 07:07 PM
1, Kevin Durant for sure
2, Blake Griffin
3, Kevin Love
4, Derrick Rose
5, Eric Gordon
6, Russel Westbrook
7, Marc Gasol
8, Andrew Bynum - So overrated for me
9, Tyreke Evans
10, Roy Hibbert - Maybe not, but iīm a big fan of this guy
Btw my first reply in PSD

Love ahead of Rose? I can understand Griffin cuz the guy is a beast and ill take him to start a team ahead of Rose every time but not Love.

THE GIPPER
08-16-2011, 07:10 PM
I completely forgot derozan

OlivaThor
08-16-2011, 07:16 PM
Love ahead of Rose? I can understand Griffin cuz the guy is a beast and ill take him to start a team ahead of Rose every time but not Love.

Yea, for me, cause Rose=Westbrook and I rather have Love in my team, than this two. Young bigman who work for his points and brings 15 rebound/game? Now is in this league so much good pgs and only a few good bigmans

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 07:27 PM
Yea, for me, cause Rose=Westbrook and I rather have Love in my team, than this two. Young bigman who work for his points and brings 15 rebound/game? Now is in this league so much good pgs and only a few good bigmans

no. :no:

OlivaThor
08-16-2011, 07:48 PM
no. :no:

Athletic young shoot-first pg 22/25 ppg and 8/7.2 apg.. Look the same

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 07:50 PM
no. :no:

Yes :nod:

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Yea, for me, cause Rose=Westbrook and I rather have Love in my team, than this two. Young bigman who work for his points and brings 15 rebound/game? Now is in this league so much good pgs and only a few good bigmans

That i can agree with. The difference is that Westbrook plays on a city of cows and farms but if were to play in NY or LA the Rose vs Westbrook debate would be very real..

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 07:55 PM
Anyone saying Rose=Westbrook deserves a ban.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 07:57 PM
That i can agree with. The difference is that Westbrook plays on a city of cows and farms but if were to play in NY or LA the Rose vs Westbrook debate would be very real..

The difference is Rose is a better player, with a higher IQ who carrys a heavier burden with less support. If Rose played alongside a player of Durant's calibre the debate may not even be much of a debate anymore.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 07:57 PM
Athletic young shoot-first pg 22/25 ppg and 8/7.2 apg.. Look the same

basic stats tell no part of the story.

Derrick Rose is way more of an offensive threat than Westbrook is. Russell Westbrook has average efficiency and a below average eFG%. Derrick Rose is above average in both.

Russell Westbrook shoots 26% from 3-9 feet, horrible. He doesn't shoot better than Derrick from anywhere on the floor.

Try to look past the superficial surface when evaluating players. Just because they're both young, athletic PG's doesn't make them the same.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 07:59 PM
That i can agree with. The difference is that Westbrook plays on a city of cows and farms but if were to play in NY or LA the Rose vs Westbrook debate would be very real..

this is why I can't take you seriously, you don't know anything about basketball. First you say Rose is inefficient, then you say Rose = Westbrook. At what point can you start to admit how ignorant you are?

OlivaThor
08-16-2011, 08:01 PM
Man every time I opened nbadatcom i saw Rose in main tittle, itīs just about hype, because nba needs new faces for sale (Kobe, then Lebron, then Durant, then Rose/Must see BG), this year DH deserved MVP more than Rose, LBJ than Rose, but people saw Derrick everyday so they agreed.. Give me ban for my opinion, but I believe in it

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 08:08 PM
Man every time I opened nbadatcom i saw Rose in main tittle, itīs just about hype, because nba needs new faces for sale (Kobe, then Lebron, then Durant, then Rose/Must see BG), this year DH deserved MVP more than Rose, LBJ than Rose, but people saw Derrick everyday so they agreed.. Give me ban for my opinion, but I believe in it

I wouldn't ban you for your opinion but I would chastise you. They don't give MVP awards to lower seeded teams. Rose was the leader of the Bulls and the Bulls "won" the regular season by having the best record in the league and ranking ahead of the Magic and the Heat.

If they did give MVP awards to low seeded teams, why not give it to Kevin Love? What he did was amazing. How many double-doubles did he get in a row?

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 08:11 PM
The difference is Rose is a better player, with a higher IQ who carrys a heavier burden with less support. If Rose played alongside a player of Durant's calibre the debate may not even be much of a debate anymore.

Higher IQ? Heavier burden? Less support? Please...

First of all theres no way to measure or quantify a players IQ.. i could easily say Rose lacks IQ cuz during interviews he sounds like a pothead that never learned to speak in public... however that wouldnt be fair to him.

I think if Rose played with Durant, Rose's stats would suffer more than they would improve.

They are a lot closer than people are willing to admit. An gifted MVP award has really skewed a lot of peoples views of Rose.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 08:16 PM
Everything you say is just garbage, talking out of your *** is all you do. Your opinion is worth less than the crud on the bottom of my shoe, back up your opinion with some objective analysis and maybe I'll listen.

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 08:17 PM
Man every time I opened nbadatcom i saw Rose in main tittle, itīs just about hype, because nba needs new faces for sale (Kobe, then Lebron, then Durant, then Rose/Must see BG), this year DH deserved MVP more than Rose, LBJ than Rose, but people saw Derrick everyday so they agreed.. Give me ban for my opinion, but I believe in it

Agreed. Its all about hype and marketing money. Its all a business. Rose is a good story. He is exciting and plays for CHI. He is way overhyped.

Dwight shouldve been MVP. The ballot was Dwight, CP3, Rose, Lebron, Dirk

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 08:21 PM
thats why our coach won COY, next you'll say how he didn't deserve that and it should have gone to Doug Collins.:rolleyes:

good luck trying to talk sense to people who don't want to hear it, Swashcuff. I'm done trying to convince these people, I'd get further arguing with a brick wall.

Stuckey#3
08-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Moose will be up there next year.

OlivaThor
08-16-2011, 08:29 PM
Rose in the same team as KD is Westbrook in the same team as KD.. And Magic lower seeded team? Come on.. Bulls without rose is good team with Boozer at first option, Noah and Deng and bunch of good roleplayers, Magic without Howard? Chaos without sense

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 08:43 PM
Higher IQ? Heavier burden? Less support? Please...

Would you like me to give you some facts on this? Well here it goes.

Westbrook averages 6.5 2FG assists per game and 1.7 3FG.

Meaning 6.5*2 = 13 and 1.7*3 = 5.1
13.0+5.1 = 18.1 + 21.9= 40.0 ppg.

The Thunder averaged 104.8 ppg, therefore 40.0/104.8= 38.1%

Russell Westbrook accounts for 38.1% of the OKC Thunder offense.

Derrick Rose averages 5.7 2FG assists per game and 2.0 3FG.

Meaning 5.7*2 = 11.4 and 2.0*3 = 6.0
11.4+6.0 = 17.4 + 25.0 = 42.4 ppg

The Bulls averaged 98.6 ppg, therefore 42.4/98.6= 42.7%

Last I checked 42.7% > 38.1%

So tell me how are they = again?

Rose has more of a Burden to carry.

I would give you an analysis of their supporting casts but I really doesn't make sense you are not worth that much of my time. Kevin Durant is a top 5 player and the 2nd best player in the league. James Harden was voted a top 10 SG by PSD. Kendrick Perkins one of the best defensive Cs in the game, same for Ibaka at his position. Eric Maynor a more than capable back up PG. Thabo is still an elite defensive perimeter player in this league etc etc.

All that is > Boozer, Brewer, Deng, Noah, Korver, Bogans, Thomas, Asik


First of all theres no way to measure or quantify a players IQ.. i could easily say Rose lacks IQ cuz during interviews he sounds like a pothead that never learned to speak in public... however that wouldnt be fair to him.

Tell me something. Did you watch their respective playoffs runs? Who was blamed for the Thunder's poor play down the stretch? Was it not Westbrook who jacked shot after shot after shot when he had the league scoring champion playing alongside him.

Westbrook is the main reason why the Thunder did not do better in the post season. He's poor decision making (low IQ) was the direct reason as to why the Thunder did not perform at their very best in the post season.

Oh yeah make a case for Rose's interviews of all things. That really PROVES that Rose has a low basketball IQ. I guess the same should be said for LeBron right? He must have the worst IQ of them all. What does interviewing have to do with your BASKETBALL IQ? :confused:

Payton Manny must have a hell of a Basketball IQ right?


I think if Rose played with Durant, Rose's stats would suffer more than they would improve.

You would think that because you don't understand the effect of playing with a player of Kevin Durant's calibre will have on your play. Durant constantly running around the floor around screens often opens up tonnes of lanes and usually causes the opposing defenses to have a hard time keeping it together. Derrick Rose is one of the best players in the league at not only getting into the paint but converting at a high rate and in a many many different ways. Westbrook is NOT the finisher than Rose is. Isn't even close in all honest.

Playing alongside a player such as Durant will also help Derrick Rose's efficiency.


They are a lot closer than people are willing to admit. An gifted MVP award has really skewed a lot of peoples views of Rose.

A gifted MVP award?

I don't watch awards bro. I watch the game, I watch the facts, I watch and have a comprehensive understanding of the stats. I know the facts and I understand them. I don't say baseless things like one player= another without any form of evidence.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 08:44 PM
thats why our coach won COY, next you'll say how he didn't deserve that and it should have gone to Doug Collins.:rolleyes:

good luck trying to talk sense to people who don't want to hear it, Swashcuff. I'm done trying to convince these people, I'd get further arguing with a brick wall.

If my last post doesn't put an end all his ignorance then I don't know what will.

juno10
08-16-2011, 08:45 PM
this is why I can't take you seriously, you don't know anything about basketball. First you say Rose is inefficient, then you say Rose = Westbrook. At what point can you start to admit how ignorant you are?

this is how i feel when you try to argue dirk being better than bron.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 08:52 PM
Would you like me to give you some facts on this? Well here it goes.

Westbrook averages 6.5 2FG assists per game and 1.7 3FG.

Meaning 6.5*2 = 13 and 1.7*3 = 5.1
13.0+5.1 = 18.1 + 21.9= 40.0 ppg.

The Thunder averaged 104.8 ppg, therefore 40.0/104.8= 38.1%

Russell Westbrook accounts for 38.1% of the OKC Thunder offense.

Derrick Rose averages 5.7 2FG assists per game and 2.0 3FG.

Meaning 5.7*2 = 11.4 and 2.0*3 = 6.0
11.4+6.0 = 17.4 + 25.0 = 42.4 ppg

The Bulls averaged 98.6 ppg, therefore 42.4/98.6= 42.7%

Last I checked 42.7% > 38.1%

So tell me how are they = again?

Rose has more of a Burden to carry.

I would give you an analysis of their supporting casts but I really doesn't make sense you are not worth that much of my time. Kevin Durant is a top 5 player and the 2nd best player in the league. James Harden was voted a top 10 SG by PSD. Kendrick Perkins one of the best defensive Cs in the game, same for Ibaka at his position. Eric Maynor a more than capable back up PG. Thabo is still an elite defensive perimeter player in this league etc etc.

All that is > Boozer, Brewer, Deng, Noah, Korver, Bogans, Thomas, Asik



Tell me something. Did you watch their respective playoffs runs? Who was blamed for the Thunder's poor play down the stretch? Was it not Westbrook who jacked shot after shot after shot when he had the league scoring champion playing alongside him.

Westbrook is the main reason why the Thunder did not do better in the post season. He's poor decision making (low IQ) was the direct reason as to why the Thunder did not perform at their very best in the post season.

Oh yeah make a case for Rose's interviews of all things. That really PROVES that Rose has a low basketball IQ. I guess the same should be said for LeBron right? He must have the worst IQ of them all. What does interviewing have to do with your BASKETBALL IQ? :confused:

Payton Manny must have a hell of a Basketball IQ right?



You would think that because you don't understand the effect of playing with a player of Kevin Durant's calibre will have on your play. Durant constantly running around the floor around screens often opens up tonnes of lanes and usually causes the opposing defenses to have a hard time keeping it together. Derrick Rose is one of the best players in the league at not only getting into the paint but converting at a high rate and in a many many different ways. Westbrook is NOT the finisher than Rose is. Isn't even close in all honest.

Playing alongside a player such as Durant will also help Derrick Rose's efficiency.



A gifted MVP award?

I don't watch awards bro. I watch the game, I watch the facts, I watch and have a comprehensive understanding of the stats. I know the facts and I understand them. I don't say baseless things like one player= another without any form of evidence.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/love0030.gif

what else can you say except PWND. He's not going to argue with you, the best he can do is give his stupid opinion without being able to back up anything he says with any form of actual evidence. That's what people with no basketball knowledge do.

This forum would be a lot better without people like Chill Will, who just go around talking out of their butts all the time.

juno10
08-16-2011, 08:57 PM
so westbrook is the main reason they didn't do better? they wouldn't sniff the conf finals if it wasn't for him

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 09:11 PM
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/love0030.gif

what else can you say except PWND. He's not going to argue with you, the best he can do is give his stupid opinion without being able to back up anything he says with any form of actual evidence. That's what people with no basketball knowledge do.

This forum would be a lot better without people like Chill Will, who just go around talking out of their butts all the time.

Get off his rooster man.. ill say no more because youll just run to the mods again and get me an infraction :ohno: cuz thats how little girls handle their business

Anyway the Swash made some interesting points and i agree with a lot of them but again its impossible to predict how Westbrook would preform in the Bulls or Rose with the Thunder unless it actually happened. Rose and Westbrook are similar players with similar skills and i think they are closer than most argue. Neither are great playmakers. Rose is a bit farther ahead of Westy but i feel that a lot of this Rose stuff is hype and media manipulation and Rose is a lot closer to Westbrook than he is to CP3 and Deron as the Bulls homers suggest.

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 09:12 PM
so westbrook is the main reason they didn't do better? they wouldn't sniff the conf finals if it wasn't for him

Westbrook shot 36% from the field (36-100) in the Dallas series on 4.8 apg and 4.8 tpg. The one game in which they won was the game in which he attempted the fewest amount of shots in that series. Now remember Westbrook is the starting PG of the team that had the leagues #1 scorer on it. His job is to get the ball into that player's hands not chuck his life away.

While Kevin Durant shot 42.8% from the field (45-105) while getting to the line at a higher rate than Westbrook and scoring more and more efficiently.

The Thunder shot themselves in the foot literally in many of those games and in large part due to the fact that their starting All Star Calibre PG refused to do what was asked of him. Had Rose been a member of the Thunder the would have given the Mavs a serious run for their money.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 09:16 PM
this is how i feel when you try to argue dirk being better than bron.

I don't try to debate that from a statistical argument, I realize Lebron is far and away the best player in the game from a stats point of view. There is no stat to quantify "wanting it more" however, and Dirk has delivered in crunch time while Lebron has failed over and over again.

Dirk is no slouch, he's an elite player and a better shooter than Lebron. Lebron is a way more well-rounded player though. But all of that starts to mean nothing when one guy can be relied upon in the finals moments of a finals game and another player has a history of failure year after year.

RZZZA
08-16-2011, 09:26 PM
Get off his rooster man.. ill say no more because youll just run to the mods again and get me an infraction :ohno: cuz thats how little girls handle their business

Anyway the Swash made some interesting points and i agree with a lot of them but again its impossible to predict how Westbrook would preform in the Bulls or Rose with the Thunder unless it actually happened. Rose and Westbrook are similar players with similar skills and i think they are closer than most argue. Neither are great playmakers. Rose is a bit farther ahead of Westy but i feel that a lot of this Rose stuff is hype and media manipulation and Rose is a lot closer to Westbrook than he is to CP3 and Deron as the Bulls homers suggest.

Again, your opinion is worth nothing. All your "I feels" and "I thinks" are nothing. Anybody can say anything and justify it with "I think"'s and "I feel"'s. I think Rudy Gay is a better player than Eric Gordon. See how easy that is? The harder part is proving it.

Rose and Westbrook are similar players in some ways. They're both young, athletic, they both finish at rim with a similar %. The similarity ends there. If you knew anything about stats you would realize what a great player Derrick is, and you wouldn't hide behind the excuse of media, hype and Bulls homers like you do.

It's not a homer opinion when you back it up with objective facts.

juno10
08-16-2011, 09:28 PM
I don't try to debate that from a statistical argument, I realize Lebron is far and away the best player in the game from a stats point of view. There is no stat to quantify "wanting it more" however, and Dirk has delivered in crunch time while Lebron has failed over and over again.

Dirk is no slouch, he's an elite player and a better shooter than Lebron. Lebron is a way more well-rounded player though. But all of that starts to mean nothing when one guy can be relied upon in the finals moments of a finals game and another player has a history of failure year after year.

this is the first year he choked no? maybe last year too but i think he just quit that year, this is like the first year people are saying he can't be relied in final moments and it's obvious he can be.

i would say dirk has had his fair share of failures thats what makes the player, those failures just makes them that much better just don't know why people all of a sudden think lebron is a perennial loser all of a sudden

NYtilIdie
08-16-2011, 09:33 PM
Wrong thread.

Sactown
08-16-2011, 09:39 PM
Howard
Durant
Rose
Love
Westbrook
Love
Griffin
Curry/Evans
Harden
Cousins/Wall

probably missing a good amount of players, but this is what I got

Bluerapoileagle
08-16-2011, 09:53 PM
1. Kevin Durant
2. Derrick Rose
3. Blake Griffin
4. Kevin Love
5. Russell Westbrook
6. Andrew Bynum
7. John Wall
8. Rudy Gay
9. Stephan Curry
10. Serge Ibaka

tredigs
08-16-2011, 10:34 PM
Rose is better than Westbrook at this point simply because he has more control over his athleticism. Where Russ can become a freight train at times, Rose tends to keep his composure and both finish smoother and pass better when penetrating.

The issue with that is that Rose ceased too much of that penetration and found himself enamored with his newfound 3pt ability (that he had going in the first couple months), and then flat out chucked from there (<30% at 5-6 attempts a game) in the 2nd half+post-season, while meanwhile Westbrook picked his opportunities and was largely lights out when he took them. Still, Westbrook (tho' he can no doubt be a dynamic playmaker at times) needs to take some notes from Cp3. That's Rose's edge on Westbrook. Nothing more, really. And Westbrook has his edges as well; namely strength/rebounding/knowing when to take a 3.

Swash, you posted Westbrook's terrible numbers in the WCF's in rebuttal to that dude's comment that "without Westbrook, no way they sniff the WCF's". That doesn't make much sense to me. He WAS bad in that series, and no doubt carries less of an offensive load than Durant (so would Rose in his position...), but the fact remains, he was integral in getting them there. As much grief as he (deservedly) gets for overshooting in the Dallas series and other moments throughout the playoffs, he HAS to be a big time offensive force for them. KD's not fantastic on the ball, and other than Harden (who's heavily underutilized and will be a force for them going forward), that team has very little options to look to. Also, let's not forget Rose's mighty struggles against the Heat.

In short, it's apparent that Westbrook is hugely underrated, and really an incredible player who's just in the infancy of his game. I would not be surprised a bit if he's considered the better talent a year or two from now (most likely scenario being that OKC wins the ship with Wesbtrook being Finals MVP or at least in strong consideration of the award - which I think could very well be the case being the matchups they'd have against the Heat... or if Rose is the one in his path when that happens).

Top players under 25?

Durant

Rose
Griffin
Westbrook
Love
Wall/Curry

Swashcuff
08-16-2011, 10:55 PM
Rose is better than Westbrook at this point simply because he has more control over his athleticism. Where Russ can become a freight train at times, Rose tends to keep his composure and both finish smoother and pass better when penetrating.

The issue with that is that Rose ceased too much of that penetration and found himself enamored with his newfound 3pt ability (that he had going in the first couple months), and then flat out chucked from there (<30% at 5-6 attempts a game) in the 2nd half+post-season, while meanwhile Westbrook picked his opportunities and was largely lights out when he took them. Still, Westbrook (tho' he can no doubt be a dynamic playmaker at times) needs to take some notes from Cp3. That's Rose's edge on Westbrook. Nothing more, really. And Westbrook has his edges as well; namely strength/rebounding/knowing when to take a 3.

Swash, you posted Westbrook's terrible numbers in the WCF's in rebuttal to that dude's comment that "without Westbrook, no way they sniff the WCF's". That doesn't make much sense to me. He WAS bad in that series, and no doubt carries less of an offensive load than Durant (so would Rose in his position...), but the fact remains, he was integral in getting them there. As much grief as he (deservedly) gets for overshooting in the Dallas series and other moments throughout the playoffs, he HAS to be a big time offensive force for them. KD's not fantastic on the ball, and other than Harden (who's heavily underutilized and will be a force for them going forward), that team has very little options to look to. Also, let's not forget Rose's mighty struggles against the Heat.

In short, it's apparent that Westbrook is hugely underrated, and really an incredible player who's just in the infancy of his game. I would not be surprised a bit if he's considered the better talent a year or two from now (most likely scenario being that OKC wins the ship with Wesbtrook being Finals MVP or at least in strong consideration of the award - which I think could very well be the case being the matchups they'd have against the Heat... or if Rose is the one in his path when that happens).

Top players under 25?

Durant

Rose
Griffin
Westbrook
Love
Wall/Curry

I think he took what I was I trying to say out of context. I did not mean to say that Westbrook was the reason why they didn't do better than they did. What I meant is that IMO had Derrick Rose been in Westbrook's shoes the team would have been better off. The last part of my post I mentioned that had Rose replaced Westbrook in that scenario I believe that Thunder would have had a better chance at beating the Mavs.

It was not on Westbrook, if it seemed that way it was not my intention.

Chill_Will_24
08-16-2011, 11:02 PM
Rose is better than Westbrook at this point simply because he has more control over his athleticism. Where Russ can become a freight train at times, Rose tends to keep his composure and both finish smoother and pass better when penetrating.

The issue with that is that Rose ceased too much of that penetration and found himself enamored with his newfound 3pt ability (that he had going in the first couple months), and then flat out chucked from there (<30% at 5-6 attempts a game) in the 2nd half+post-season, while meanwhile Westbrook picked his opportunities and was largely lights out when he took them. Still, Westbrook (tho' he can no doubt be a dynamic playmaker at times) needs to take some notes from Cp3. That's Rose's edge on Westbrook. Nothing more, really. And Westbrook has his edges as well; namely strength/rebounding/knowing when to take a 3.

Swash, you posted Westbrook's terrible numbers in the WCF's in rebuttal to that dude's comment that "without Westbrook, no way they sniff the WCF's". That doesn't make much sense to me. He WAS bad in that series, and no doubt carries less of an offensive load than Durant (so would Rose in his position...), but the fact remains, he was integral in getting them there. As much grief as he (deservedly) gets for overshooting in the Dallas series and other moments throughout the playoffs, he HAS to be a big time offensive force for them. KD's not fantastic on the ball, and other than Harden (who's heavily underutilized and will be a force for them going forward), that team has very little options to look to. Also, let's not forget Rose's mighty struggles against the Heat.

In short, it's apparent that Westbrook is hugely underrated, and really an incredible player who's just in the infancy of his game. I would not be surprised a bit if he's considered the better talent a year or two from now (most likely scenario being that OKC wins the ship with Wesbtrook being Finals MVP or at least in strong consideration of the award - which I think could very well be the case being the matchups they'd have against the Heat... or if Rose is the one in his path when that happens).

Top players under 25?

Durant

Rose
Griffin
Westbrook
Love
Wall/Curry

The market plays a role here too. Westbrook plays in a farm town while Rose plays in CHI.

tredigs
08-16-2011, 11:22 PM
I think he took what I was I trying to say out of context. I did not mean to say that Westbrook was the reason why they didn't do better than they did. What I meant is that IMO had Derrick Rose been in Westbrook's shoes the team would have been better off. The last part of my post I mentioned that had Rose replaced Westbrook in that scenario I believe that Thunder would have had a better chance at beating the Mavs.

It was not on Westbrook, if it seemed that way it was not my intention.

Makes sense.



The market plays a role here too. Westbrook plays in a farm town while Rose plays in CHI.

Without question, Chicago was starving for a new star, and so was NBA marketing. But, Rose still was slightly better.

ChiSox219
08-17-2011, 04:31 PM
Durant
Rose
Griffin
Love
Harden

Cool007
08-17-2011, 05:14 PM
Rose
Durant (1a/1b with Rose)
Griffin (from next year)
Westbrook
Love
Wall

WildcatsPride
08-17-2011, 05:26 PM
Top 10 players U25(no particular order)
Derrick Rose
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook
Blake Griffin
Kevin Love
John Wall
Tyreke Evans
Stephen Curry
Eric Gordon
Danilo Gallinari

Honorable mentions: Darren Collison, James Harden, Serge Ibaka, Javale McGee, Demarcus Cousins

I saw some mentions for Dwight Howard, Al Horford, and Rudy Gay...I would include those guys but they're already 25