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fatkev78
08-04-2011, 04:15 PM
John Lott
Snider to AAA, Villanueva DL, Perez up

http://twitter.com/#!/LottOnBaseball

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 04:16 PM
this is even more stupid then the first demotion..

what is the point of sending the guy down to AAA whre he is gonna hit .330 again.. at some point, you have to see what the guy has by giving him consistent ABs..

Sometimes i just dont understand this organization

Toxeryll
08-04-2011, 04:18 PM
they were saying he was here to stay. no wonder the guy has been struggling, he has not been given a fair chance by this organization. stupid move.

PJ Awesome
08-04-2011, 04:19 PM
yet Mike McCoy is a Blue Jay still...

madmike77
08-04-2011, 04:21 PM
this is even more stupid then the first demotion..

what is the point of sending the guy down to AAA whre he is gonna hit .330 again.. at some point, you have to see what the guy has by giving him consistent ABs..

Sometimes i just dont understand this organization

Maybe they can figure out a waiver wire trade for EE, but at the moment Thames deserves the ABs more than Snider. Snider has had his chances and consistently fails to take advantage.

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 04:22 PM
this is even more stupid then the first demotion..

what is the point of sending the guy down to AAA whre he is gonna hit .330 again.. at some point, you have to see what the guy has by giving him consistent ABs..

Sometimes i just dont understand this organization

Thames would have made more sense from a long-term perspective. They really should have just traded EE at the deadline, though.


yet Mike McCoy is a Blue Jay still...

in AAA

statquo
08-04-2011, 04:24 PM
**** you Snider. Shave your dirty mustache and learn how to hit.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 04:25 PM
Maybe they can figure out a waiver wire trade for EE, but at the moment Thames deserves the ABs more than Snider. Snider has had his chances and consistently fails to take advantage.

its not about who deserves (although they have been equally bad), its about making the right decision.. Thames being sent down wouldn't be a big deal considering he is still a rookie. But for Snider, the time is now to throw him in the water and see if sinks of swims.. when are we gonnd do it?

so he might come up in September and hit well, then start next year again only to have him struggle. Do we send him down again? i just dunno what they are trying to do

BLUEJAY_REPEAT
08-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Snider sucks and doesn't deserve to start. What happend to this guy he used to hit bombs and now all he is a soft *** singles hitter.

madmike77
08-04-2011, 04:30 PM
its not about who deserves (although they have been equally bad), its about making the right decision.. Thames being sent down wouldn't be a big deal considering he is still a rookie. But for Snider, the time is now to throw him in the water and see if sinks of swims

Yeah I know what you're saying but at this point I think Snider is what he is. The guy just can't seem to learn. Thames is certainly struggling too but at least he's taking decent cuts. Snider just looks completely lost. I get so frustrated watching the guy flail around at the plate.

Ideally they can unload EE and have room for both Snider and Thames. EE's been hitting way better than either of them lately, but it's really not about this year for the Jays - they need to see what they'll have next year.

I really don't have much faith in Snider turning into anything special any more though. He's at an age where he should be progressing and he seems stuck - whether through bad management by the Jays or his own inability to recognize pitches I can't tell.

nithanyo
08-04-2011, 04:30 PM
I'm glad he's gone. Hope he rots there

aman_13
08-04-2011, 04:30 PM
its not about who deserves (although they have been equally bad), its about making the right decision.. Thames being sent down wouldn't be a big deal considering he is still a rookie. But for Snider, the time is now to throw him in the water and see if sinks of swims.. when are we gonnd do it?

so he might come up in September and hit well, then start next year again only to have him struggle. Do we send him down again? i just dunno what they are trying to do

Maybe they are having the same feelings as some do in this forum. He needs to figure out his mechanics. Zaun called it in the beginning, he hasn't changed at all since he's been called up and now he can't get a hit. I prefer him to stay up but he's gone back to his old ways at the plate.

Bombtista
08-04-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm glad he's gone. Hope he rots there

I would rather he learns how to hit and becomes the player he should already be

nithanyo
08-04-2011, 04:35 PM
I would rather he learns how to hit and becomes the player he should already be

Clearly it's not working. The guy has had several stints up here and it hasn't gotten him anywhere.

aman_13
08-04-2011, 04:39 PM
Sometimes it's hard to believe with all the hype he's gotten in the beginning of his career and at the time the most anticipated call up that the bust label is already coming out.

Toxeryll
08-04-2011, 04:39 PM
Lol I recall the excitement when we got Rasmus, a guy who has massive potential and we all laugh at the cardinals for giving up on the guy. I feel like we are on the same spot on Snider and if we give up on the guy so easily, sooner or later we will find people laughing at us.

darth helmet
08-04-2011, 04:39 PM
It had to be him going down. They can't have 5 outfielders on the roster. Thames has been hitting better and Snider could benefit the regular at bats in the minors.

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 04:40 PM
It had to be him going down. They can't have 5 outfielders on the roster. Thames has been hitting better and Snider could benefit the regular at bats in the minors.

False.

statquo
08-04-2011, 04:42 PM
It had to be him going down. They can't have 5 outfielders on the roster. Thames has been hitting better and Snider could benefit the regular at bats in the minors.

Snider could benefit from swinging with two hands and hitting the ball once in a while.

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 04:42 PM
Lol I recall the excitement when we got Rasmus, a guy who has massive potential and we all laugh at the cardinals for giving up on the guy. I feel like we are on the same spot on Snider and if we give up on the guy so easily, sooner or later we will find people laughing at us.

right...because a guy who had the 2nd highest OPS for a CFer a year ago, as a 23 year old, is in the same boat as a guy who has had no consistent success in the majors. The Cards weren't giving up on him for a lack of production, but for apparently not listening to coaches.

thebeall
08-04-2011, 04:43 PM
At this rate, Snider's trade value will be sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

He's still young, and he has talent...but it ain't happening for him....at least not here. We need pitching and have OF depth....hopefully he's still worth something in the off season.

joshhorvath
08-04-2011, 04:43 PM
'The Toronto Blue Jays made several roster moves following Thursday's game in Tampa, the most prominent being the call-up of top prospect Brett Lawrie and the demotion of Travis Snider to triple-A Las Vegas.

Toronto also recalled left-hander Luis Perez from Las Vegas and placed starter Carlos Villanueva on the 15-day disabled list with a right forearm strain.'

Lawrie is up!!!!!!!

BLUEJAY_REPEAT
08-04-2011, 04:43 PM
False.

Snider flat out sucks. He needs to stop being a singles hitter and learn how to hit home runs again.

Atleast Thames can hit it out of the ****ing diamond.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 04:44 PM
i understand that it isn't working but you are not gonna get a better time to finally watch the guy and decide on his future.. we are not in a race so the pressure is off..

Again, he is gonna go down and hit in AAA. What happens if he comes up and hit in the few ABs he gets in September. Do you give him the starting job again next year and take it away in a month if he struggles

GNick
08-04-2011, 04:45 PM
I noticed Snider has been falling back into his bad habits of chasing again. He needs to get back in groove he was in when first came up.

darth helmet
08-04-2011, 04:47 PM
False.

Stats aside, just look at Thames form vs. Sniders. Thames looks more confident at the plate, takes better cuts, has a better eye and despite his recent struggles still looks like he belongs in the majors (at least moreso than Snider). Snider on the other hand is constantly ahead of pitches and needs to work on his timing some more. So I FALSE your FALSE.

jaysnraptors44
08-04-2011, 04:48 PM
Good ... Snider can't hit in the majors it's simple .. he's like chris davis the ex ranger u saw his minors number and they were just WOW but then the rangers traded him because he can't hit a major league curveball ... who does that remind me of OH YEA ! snider .... time for him to go

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 04:50 PM
Snider flat out sucks. He needs to stop being a singles hitter and learn how to hit home runs again.

Atleast Thames can hit it out of the ****ing diamond.

He needs to figure it out at the Major League level. Sending him down wont solve anything.

Thames has not been playing better lately, compare Snider's and Thames's July stats.

There is no better time for Snider to figure it out than right now while we arent contending. This year was never about winning games, it was about the young guys developing, and they arent letting Snider do that with these demotions.

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 04:51 PM
He needs to figure it out at the Major League level. Sending him down wont solve anything.

Thames has not been playing better lately, compare Snider's and Thames's July stats.

There is no better time for Snider to figure it out than right now while we arent contending. This year was never about winning games, it was about the young guys developing, and they arent letting Snider do that with these demotions.

:nod:

j-mart
08-04-2011, 04:54 PM
the 'stache is weighing him down

aman_13
08-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Edwin has a lot to do with the Snider demotion. If he wasn't hitting, Thames would go to DH and they would move someone else. Edwin would come off the bench.

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 04:56 PM
Stats aside, just look at Thames form vs. Sniders. Thames looks more confident at the plate, takes better cuts, has a better eye and despite his recent struggles still looks like he belongs in the majors (at least moreso than Snider). Snider on the other hand is constantly ahead of pitches and needs to work on his timing some more. So I FALSE your FALSE.

You said Thames was hitting better than Snider, which is false. Thames is getting exposed by not being patient enough since he's been moved down in the order.

Corey Patterson also put up decent numbers in the 2 spot, but Thames so far hasnt hit better than Snider when moved down in the order.

Snider and Thames both have holes in their swings, but Im disappointed they elected to keep the lower ceiling guy up with the big club.

darth helmet
08-04-2011, 05:05 PM
Snider and Thames both have holes in their swings, but Im disappointed they elected to keep the lower ceiling guy up with the big club.

I think that's why they sent Snider down, because he's the higher ceiling guy who has more opportunity to improve significantly with a chance to work out the kinks in his swing without the expectations to perform at the major league level. Remember he's still very young and in the development phase and can still learn more in the minors.

I'm also not going to sit here and argue that Thames has been miraculous, but he in my opinion has still looked better than Snider. There's something really wrong with Snider's swing right now and to me it's a glaring issue far more than anything Thames has been doing.

Toxeryll
08-04-2011, 05:07 PM
We all know that this season is a writeoff year, but I dont understand why Snider was the odd man out especially when he has no options left next year. We have to get a longer look at him. Why not just DFA Teahen, we all know its gonna happen but just a matter of time.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 05:08 PM
He needs to figure it out at the Major League level. Sending him down wont solve anything.

Thames has not been playing better lately, compare Snider's and Thames's July stats.

There is no better time for Snider to figure it out than right now while we arent contending. This year was never about winning games, it was about the young guys developing, and they arent letting Snider do that with these demotions.

my sentiments exactly

GNick
08-04-2011, 05:10 PM
Don't matter how much talent he has if he keeps chasing he'll be another Aaron Hill or Jose Cruz Jr.

darth helmet
08-04-2011, 05:12 PM
Snider can't seem to hit a lick in the majors yet everyone wants to see him sort it out up here. How much time do you give him though? Not hitting is a slippery slope because the longer you go the worst your confidence gets.

boilerguy2412
08-04-2011, 05:16 PM
i agree with sending him down, let him play everyday down there and work on his issues, the guy just can't get the job done here. Something needs to change and IMO it's not going to help him at all by staying up here and struggling. Hill, EE will more then likely be gone by the end of the month that will create a bit of space for Snider if he hits well down there. The guy is just lost at the plate

Kelly Gruber
08-04-2011, 05:20 PM
Time will tell if Snider can pan out, but I'm not really shocked they sent him down. Sure his and Thames' stats aren't very good, but Thames has brought more moxy and confidence to the team. Both of them is redundant and we need to get Lawrie up here. Pulling for Snider here, but eventually some of the blame has to go to the player and not how he's handled. We're talking about a guy with 872 ML PAs here. He should have made himself unmoveable from the line-up by now if he is to be the type of player we'd hoped he'd be. He's never set roots in MLB and he's a kid that handles team discisons well too, I can see why they made this move. Time will tell.

2009mvp
08-04-2011, 05:34 PM
He's going down to fix his swing. Cool, his swing is fixed, he's up for good now. Fast forward a few weeks, back to the minors he goes. What's the message now? They've given up on him? Pretty much everything AA's touched has turned to gold so far, but he's contributing just as much as JP/Cito to making sure this kid never becomes a successful big leaguer.

2009mvp
08-04-2011, 05:36 PM
Time will tell if Snider can pan out, but I'm not really shocked they sent him down. Sure his and Thames' stats aren't very good, but Thames has brought more moxy and confidence to the team. Both of them is redundant and we need to get Lawrie up here. Pulling for Snider here, but eventually some of the blame has to go to the player and not how he's handled. We're talking about a guy with 872 ML PAs here. He should have made himself unmoveable from the line-up by now if he is to be the type of player we'd hoped he'd be. He's never set roots in MLB and he's a kid that handles team discisons well too, I can see why they made this move. Time will tell.

By smiling? Or butchering balls in the field?

Also, Snider's 23 years old and has a lifetime .734 OPS. For most teams that earns you a spot in the bigs, especially on a 4th place team.

idrinkpepsi
08-04-2011, 05:36 PM
Travis Snider is still only 23, but he needs regular Majors at bats since he really has nothing left to prove in Vegas.

nithanyo
08-04-2011, 05:39 PM
By smiling? Or butchering balls in the field?

Also, Snider's 23 years old and has a lifetime .734 OPS. For most teams that earns you a spot in the bigs, especially on a 4th place team.

He seems like an orlando hudson type personality. The kind that uplifts a team at the worst of times.

Not really worth much at the major league level if you can't hit though. But as of right now I'm really high on Thames.

DiPasquale7
08-04-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm pretty shocked at what the majority of you guys have been saying. I think this was a terrible decision.

Over 21 games in July he hit .287 with 18 RBIs, 2 HRs and 3 SBs. He also played solid defensively. The only real issue was his K:BB ratio which I'll admit was through the roof (30:1). If you look at his production over the season he's managed to swipe 9 bags in 49 games. Projected over the season it's reasonable to assume 30 was within reach. He also had 30 RBIs which again, projected over 162 games projects him up over 90 RBIs. Couple that with his improving average this past month and I think it would have been reasonable to see him finish with a very respectable season had he been given the chance. I understand the power isn't where it should be and he's striking out WAY too much but these are things that he needs to fix in the MLB.

He's earned the right to play in the majors and go through growing pains. He's dominated the minors and has even put together some decent stats while in the big leagues:

Over his career thus far, he's played a total of 232 games. That's basically a season and a half worth of games (though it's spread over 4 years). Over that period he's posted a .250 average with 28 HRs, 104 RBIs and 16 SBs. Not incredible by any stretch but it's definitely respectable for a 23 year old.

Basically I think it's extremely premature to come to the conclusion that the 23 year old who's bounced around the majors for 4 years is a bust. He needs consistent ABs in the MLB in order to properly evaluate what he will become in the future.

Ultimately I guess this was a numbers move, but I really think Thames should have been the one sent down instead. What will this do for Snider's confidence when he came up here - performed fairly well and still ends up getting sent down.

nithanyo
08-04-2011, 05:44 PM
i agree with sending him down, let him play everyday down there and work on his issues, the guy just can't get the job done here. Something needs to change and IMO it's not going to help him at all by staying up here and struggling. Hill, EE will more then likely be gone by the end of the month that will create a bit of space for Snider if he hits well down there. The guy is just lost at the plate

i highly doubt those two are going anywhere this season. Snider needs to fix his game big time if he wants to be an every day major league player. Like someone said he's got 700+ plate appearances up here and is more of a question mark now than he ever was.

Its kinda sad how we throw the blame on Murphy, Farell or Cito. At the end of the day its up to snider to fix up his game. Coaches can only point the direction. Its up to the hitter to go out there and perform

StayOnBoard
08-04-2011, 05:45 PM
They are sending him down to keep his trade value so he can be moved in the offseason.

Write it down.

Towelie
08-04-2011, 05:50 PM
This could be one of the last times Snider gets a chance. As I said the other day he's done everything in AAA. Nothing more to do there. Tried to fix his swing, did nothing so what else can you do with this guy? Let him learn in the majors at this point, or get rid of him.

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 05:50 PM
I wonder if AA is trying to maximize the value of Thames and will then try to trade him this offseason in a package for either a CL/2B/SP?

Snider is out of options, so maybe in 2012 the job is his and he will play everyday. AA wont trade him while his value is low, so maybe he'll try to capitalize on Thames if he finishes out the season strong.

scottythegreat1
08-04-2011, 05:51 PM
The problem with Snider is that he doesnt make adjustments when he is here. He makes them in AAA, gets hot there, so they bring him up....Then he comes up here and after a few games, teams see his weakness and they adjust....

Snider needs to get out of the AL East, its not for him, a trade to another team like Oakland is in order.

Bombtista
08-04-2011, 05:52 PM
They are sending him down to keep his trade value so he can be moved in the offseason.

Write it down.

Could be! We wont get the same value we could have got a few years ago even.

I think we should wait until spring training and see how he looks there before making a move with him. An off-season of conditioning and even just reflecting could be good for him

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 05:52 PM
I'm pretty shocked at what the majority of you guys have been saying. I think this was a terrible decision.

Over 21 games in July he hit .287 with 18 RBIs, 2 HRs and 3 SBs. He also played solid defensively. The only real issue was his K:BB ratio which I'll admit was through the roof (30:1). If you look at his production over the season he's managed to swipe 9 bags in 49 games. Projected over the season it's reasonable to assume 30 was within reach. He also had 30 RBIs which again, projected over 162 games projects him up over 90 RBIs. Couple that with his improving average this past month and I think it would have been reasonable to see him finish with a very respectable season had he been given the chance. I understand the power isn't where it should be and he's striking out WAY too much but these are things that he needs to fix in the MLB.

He's earned the right to play in the majors and go through growing pains. He's dominated the minors and has even put together some decent stats while in the big leagues:

Over his career thus far, he's played a total of 232 games. That's basically a season and a half worth of games (though it's spread over 4 years). Over that period he's posted a .250 average with 28 HRs, 104 RBIs and 16 SBs. Not incredible by any stretch but it's definitely respectable for a 23 year old.

Basically I think it's extremely premature to come to the conclusion that the 23 year old who's bounced around the majors for 4 years is a bust. He needs consistent ABs in the MLB in order to properly evaluate what he will become in the future.

Ultimately I guess this was a numbers move, but I really think Thames should have been the one sent down instead. What will this do for Snider's confidence when he came up here - performed fairly well and still ends up getting sent down.

Perfectly said.

fatkev78
08-04-2011, 05:55 PM
Travis Snider
Extending my love to all the fans, friends, and family who are sticking by me through this journey. Thank u all for ur support #keepthefaith

twitter

KingCanada
08-04-2011, 06:13 PM
I think Sniders days in Toronto may be over

2009mvp
08-04-2011, 06:20 PM
They are sending him down to keep his trade value so he can be moved in the offseason.

Write it down.

You realize how little sense that makes, right?

Towelie
08-04-2011, 06:25 PM
No, way! people who can only hack it and prove it in AAA have a ton of value for other teams. The best case for value is to keep him.

Farsight
08-04-2011, 06:35 PM
sigh this is frustrating. The guy needs at bats. Since coming back up, he has actually been doing fairly well. Thames has been sent back to earth with the unsustainable BABIP he posted earlier this season... I love everything AA has been doing, other than the miss handling of Snider

pacman16
08-04-2011, 07:06 PM
^ miss handling of snider?

every time they give him a shot after showing promise in the minors hes been pretty bad... it's not like he's living up to his power hype hitting homers and striking out lots, he's just never put anything together in the BIGs...

and halladayMVP makes perfect sense, send him down so he tears it up a bit so teams see he still has promise and potential rather then having teams see him stink it up in the bigs and lower his value even more

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 07:09 PM
^ miss handling of snider?

every time they give him a shot after showing promise in the minors hes been pretty bad... it's not like he's living up to his power hyper hitting homers and striking out lots, he's just never put it together in the BIGs

and halladayMVP makes perfect sense, send him down so he tears it up a bit so teams see he still has promise and potential rather then having teams see him stink it up in the bigs and lower his value.

You really think mashing horrible AAA pitchers in an extremely hitter friendly league is gonna raise his value?? :laugh2:

Pretty sure other GMs dont give a **** what he does at the minor league level

pacman16
08-04-2011, 07:14 PM
didnt say raise his value... just saying he'll show he still has promise to people

and it when he does seem to smash AAA pitching , it gets all of you on his jock again so it must work. right???

North Yorker
08-04-2011, 07:19 PM
didnt say raise his value... just saying he'll show he still has promise to people

and it when he does seem to smash AAA pitching , it gets all of you on his jock again so it must work. right???

He has always mashed AAA pitching.

It's like a kid on the verge of failing 4th grade being made to repeat 3rd grade. It's stupid.

2009mvp
08-04-2011, 07:24 PM
AA via Wilner:


AA: No swing changes needed for Snider now; this decision made to make room for Lawrie. Travis will be back when needed. #bluejays #jays

What. The. ****.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 07:44 PM
it was either him ot thames,.... so i dont see the problem

H-MYK
08-04-2011, 08:04 PM
AA via Wilner:



What. The. ****.

That doesn't make much sense. Plus he needs to shave that mustache, it looks ridiculous on him.

DVS
08-04-2011, 08:06 PM
When will you "Snider Fanboys" realize that he is and always will be a average ball player. He swings at nearly everything... up, down, outside, inside etc. His fielding skills mirror that of a charging bull on ice. Everything is HYPE about this guy. Ya he's only 23, but he's been playing on/off MLB baseball since he was 20. At some point in time over the last three years we should of seen some type of "talent" that he supposedly has. Thames has been up for two months now, and I would take him hands down over Snider.

One more year for Snider, if he can't adapt to MLB baseball by next years trade deadline. he goes in my opinion.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 08:07 PM
^ miss handling of snider?

every time they give him a shot after showing promise in the minors hes been pretty bad... it's not like he's living up to his power hype hitting homers and striking out lots, he's just never put anything together in the BIGs...

and halladayMVP makes perfect sense, send him down so he tears it up a bit so teams see he still has promise and potential rather then having teams see him stink it up in the bigs and lower his value even more

what ****ing shot??? the guy can't struggle for a couple of weeks before he is immediately sent to the minors..

thats awful managing. Even if u agreed with the first demotion, this one is jusst stupid

scotttube
08-04-2011, 08:07 PM
This is ridiculous, one day Snider is here to play full time everyday the next he is back in AAA. Clearly Thames should have been sent down ahead of him. You've got a former top prospect in Snider and a future 4th OF/sub in Thames. They wonder why Snider has problems.. every time he has a bad 100 plate appearances he gets the axe.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 08:17 PM
Brandon Belt just got sent down to AAA... he is 23 years old .. i guess he is a bust now too

people forget the dude is 23 because he has been here for so long

Nick O
08-04-2011, 08:17 PM
This is ridiculous, one day Snider is here to play full time everyday the next he is back in AAA. Clearly Thames should have been sent down ahead of him. You've got a former top prospect in Snider and a future 4th OF/sub in Thames. They wonder why Snider has problems.. every time he has a bad 100 plate appearances he gets the axe.



really..... care to explain that

DVS
08-04-2011, 08:24 PM
the guy can't struggle for a couple of weeks before he is immediately sent to the minors..

He's been struggling for a couple years now.

PJ Awesome
08-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Why did we trade for Mark Teahen..

broncosfan_101
08-04-2011, 08:47 PM
Why did we trade for Mark Teahen..

As a salary dump for Chicago.

And does anyone else find it disturbingly poetic that we're demoting our last highly-touted-but-rushed prospect to make room for our new one? I was in favour of his first demotion this year, but not this one. Although I think Dwayne Murphy can't do anything for guys like Snider and Hill, so hopefully the hitting coach is the next to go (I know, unlikely as long as Cito is still as involved as he is).

If nothing else, burn one of Thames' options. This is a bad decision by AA for that reason alone.

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 08:54 PM
When will you "Snider Fanboys" realize that he is and always will be a average ball player. He swings at nearly everything... up, down, outside, inside etc. His fielding skills mirror that of a charging bull on ice. Everything is HYPE about this guy. Ya he's only 23, but he's been playing on/off MLB baseball since he was 20. At some point in time over the last three years we should of seen some type of "talent" that he supposedly has. Thames has been up for two months now, and I would take him hands down over Snider.

One more year for Snider, if he can't adapt to MLB baseball by next years trade deadline. he goes in my opinion.

When will you use stats to back your claims?

If swinging at pitches outside of the strike-zone was the problem than Thames would be in the minors right now. If defense was the problem then, once again, Thames would be in the minors. You can't disprove this, it's fact.

Snider swings at pitches outside of the strike zone 36.5% of the time, whereas Thames swings at them 39% of the time.

Defense, it's not really even close. Snider posts a 5.8 UZR/150. Thames posts a -5.4 UZR/150.

Sorry, but all the points you used for Snider to be sent down, applies more so to Thames. That's a fact.

bomber0104
08-04-2011, 08:54 PM
He's been struggling for a couple years now.

well last year.. he struggled to start but caught fire for a couple of weeks before hurting himself.. then he came up after his injury and hit really well in September.

so last year wasn't as bad as you might thing

this year he's struggled for a 6 weeks in total probably

Bombtista
08-04-2011, 08:55 PM
As a salary dump for Chicago.

And does anyone else find it disturbingly poetic that we're demoting our last highly-touted-but-rushed prospect to make room for our new one? I was in favour of his first demotion this year, but not this one. Although I think Dwayne Murphy can't do anything for guys like Snider and Hill, so hopefully the hitting coach is the next to go (I know, unlikely as long as Cito is still as involved as he is).

If nothing else, burn one of Thames' options. This is a bad decision by AA for that reason alone.

I agree, i think Murphy is killing us. The swing for the fences mantra is really not for 80% of the league and it appears to have ruined the swing of many of our players.

Its probably not irreversible so i think we could use a change in that department.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 09:00 PM
When will you use stats to back your claims?

If swinging at pitches outside of the strike-zone was the problem than Thames would be in the minors right now. If defense was the problem then, once again, Thames would be in the minors. You can't disprove this, it's fact.

Snider swings at pitches outside of the strike zone 36.5% of the time, whereas Thames swings at them 39% of the time.

Defense, it's not really even close. Snider posts a 5.8 UZR/150. Thames posts a -5.4 UZR/150.

Sorry, but all the points you used for Snider to be sent down, applies more so to Thames. That's a fact.

But even though lately theyve both been bad theres the one stat thats much different... it may sound pre schoolish but Eric Thames batting average is higher than Travis Sniders on base percentage..... Thames BA .272 Sniders OBP .269... Thames Obp. .316..... if lately theyve been equally as bad at the plate why not keep the guy whos been better over an extended period of time? besides the fielding really doesnt matter since in the long run Tahmes will more than likely

A. Improve in the field

B. Be a DH anyway....

and ya those stats may seem toolsih to you :P but its the first stat you see for a reason.... AVG and OBP matter.... Thames destroys snider in those catagories

town123
08-04-2011, 09:03 PM
This is crap. I'm not sure if they don't like Snider's personality or if he has problems with Murphy. I just don't know.

Here's something to contemplate however. Why didn't Snider get the kid glove deal like Thames and Patterson and earlier Hill this year?

Might be a different story if Snider had his little 2 hole action as well.

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 09:07 PM
But even though lately theyve both been bad theres the one stat thats much different... it may sound pre schoolish but Eric Thames batting average is higher than Travis Sniders on base percentage..... Thames BA .272 Sniders OBP .269... Thames Obp. .316..... if lately theyve been equally as bad at the plate why not keep the guy whos been better over an extended period of time? besides the fielding really doesnt matter since in the long run Tahmes will more than likely

A. Improve in the field

B. Be a DH anyway....

and ya those stats may seem toolsih to you :P but its the first stat you see for a reason.... AVG and OBP matter.... Thames destroys snider in those catagories

Lately he hasn't though, that's the thing.

With his astronomically high BABIP, high-strike out rate and lack of an eye, Thames was bound to come crashing down eventually.

You said it yourself, baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of game. Well, neither Thames or Snider have done much of anything.

The difference is, is that Snider has been a yo-yo for the past 3 years and has never been given a fair chance to prove himself. You've got to give the kid a fair chance.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 09:09 PM
Lately he hasn't though, that's the thing.

With his astronomically high BABIP, high-strike out rate and lack of an eye, Thames was bound to come crashing down eventually.

You said it yourself, baseball is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of game. Well, neither Thames or Snider have done much of anything.

The difference is, is that Snider has been a yo-yo for the past 3 years and has never been given a fair chance to prove himself. You've got to give the kid a fair chance.

but if you demote thames its the same thing.... it wouldnt be giving him a fair chance..... you can make arguments for either player.... in the end certain people werent gonna like the decision ... but one of them had to go down... both have pros and cons ..... and with lawrie up Thames will be in LF anyway where he wont have to make as much of a defenseive contribution....

pacman16
08-04-2011, 09:10 PM
ya, its pretty stupid for him to be in the minors...
I hope we trade him in a package for an ace in the offseason.... think an Ace on this staff is more valuable then snider is showing he will be, yayaa he's young but he isn't showing much promise.
maybe a change will get him going

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 09:18 PM
but if you demote thames its the same thing.... it wouldnt be giving him a fair chance..... you can make arguments for either player.... in the end certain people werent gonna like the decision ... but one of them had to go down... both have pros and cons ..... and with lawrie up Thames will be in LF anyway where he wont have to make as much of a defenseive contribution....

I wouldn't want to demote either if I had the choice.

My wish would have been to DFA Teahen.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 09:20 PM
I wouldn't want to demote either if I had the choice.

My wish would have been to DFA Teahen.

how else would would they bring Lawrie up? Jose has to back to RF

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 09:24 PM
how else would would they bring Lawrie up? Jose has to back to RF

You DFA Teahen, cycle Edwin, Snider and Thames and have Davis off the bench.

You're clearly just hating on Snider.

Thames deserved the demotion just as much as Snider, and there were ways to have them both in the lineup.

BigEasy1323
08-04-2011, 09:24 PM
This demotion hurts Sniders stock in a potential offseason deal. No way he is the key piece in us picking up an ace anymore. The roller coaster ride from AAA to the bigs over the last 3 years is going to raise a ton of red flags to any organization looking to swing a deal with us. We were better of trying to let him figure it out in the bigs

Farsight
08-04-2011, 09:28 PM
If Snider ever gets a chance to play for this team or any other team for a full season, he will be an above average player. Much like Rasmus was struggling in St.louis, scouts and GM's believed that he just needed regular playing time to perform, same goes with Snider. I only hope he is up by September playing regularly, and gets to play all next season with Thames DHing

Bob_at_york
08-04-2011, 09:30 PM
Hopefully he can learn something over the next month.

broncosfan_101
08-04-2011, 09:39 PM
With the talk of Teahen, I decided to check out his career, ie try to determine how bad he sucks and how he's making this kind of money. After 2009, Chicago trades for him, trying to buy low I guess. He had put up back to back negative-WAR seasons, and they didn't have to give much up. Then, inexplicably, they sign him to a 3 year contract! For $14M!! And that's with one year of arbitration rights left!!! He had been worth $3.2M combined in 2 seasons worth of WAR dollars, so they decide to give him $500k more than that...in his last season of arb...and then 2 more years of $5+M on top of that.

Kenny Williams...you goober.

PS. sorry for the OT rant, I just couldn't believe it.

scotttube
08-04-2011, 10:04 PM
really..... care to explain that

I thought I did in the next sentence but if you need it spelt out for you it's because in a nothing season you keep the guy with a brighter future who has been jerked around 3 years in a row.

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 10:09 PM
I'm glad he's gone. Hope he rots there

Sounds like a classless statement! Giving up on Snider now would be a classic case of selling low. He will eventually put it all together. He can also steal a base and play LF, RF and some CF. We'll see who's right in down the road.

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:19 PM
I'm glad he's gone. Hope he rots there

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/unsuccessful-troll.thumbnail.jpg

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:19 PM
I thought I did in the next sentence but if you need it spelt out for you it's because in a nothing season you keep the guy with a brighter future who has been jerked around 3 years in a row.

exactly.... you keep the guy with the brighter future.... my point exactly

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:21 PM
You DFA Teahen, cycle Edwin, Snider and Thames and have Davis off the bench.

You're clearly just hating on Snider.

Thames deserved the demotion just as much as Snider, and there were ways to have them both in the lineup.

yes im just hating on snider:facepalm: again i could say the same about you an thames since im clearly not the only one who feels this way..... There is no way to have them both start everyday.... so whats the point really.... you could cycle thames edwin and snider at LF and DH i suppose But Edwin is a guy who HAS earned every day at bats with a spectacular month of july

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:23 PM
exactly.... you keep the guy with the brighter future.... my point exactly

You can see the future!

Man, I love this site!

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:24 PM
You can see the future!

Man, I love this site!

LOL That guy just said Snider would have the better future..... tee off on him please...... its only fair....

McJoe
08-04-2011, 10:25 PM
This is ridiculous...I can't believe they are doing this to him again. My only complaint with AA so far is his handling of Snider...

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:25 PM
yes im just hating on snider:facepalm: again i could say the same about you an thames since im clearly not the only one who feels this way..... There is no way to have them both start everyday.... so whats the point really.... you could cycle thames edwin and snider at LF and DH i suppose But Edwin is a guy who HAS earned every day at bats with a spectacular month of july

No, you see, the biggest difference is I use stats to back up points.

You have a baseless opinion.

There is a big difference.

Not to mention that I didn't want Thames to go down, whereas you clearly wanted Snider to go down.

McJoe
08-04-2011, 10:26 PM
Also stop the back and forth or I'll ban you both. No more personal insults.

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:26 PM
LOL That guy just said Snider would have the better future..... tee off on him please...... its only fair....

You can both see the future!

Man, I love this site!

Is that better? :p

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:28 PM
No, you see, the biggest difference is I use stats to back up points.

You have a baseless opinion.

There is a big difference.

Not to mention that I didn't want Thames to go down, whereas you clearly wanted Snider to go down.

1st off you use stats like defensive WAR... second I did use stats... and just because they arnt your fancy stats doesnt mean they arnt true... thames OBP, AVG and Slugging pct are all much higher than sniders.... hes also faster with more power..... and i dont want snider down.... but whats the point of keeping him up if he will be a bench player.... theres just too much of a cluster in the field and only one of them can get everyday playing time.... unless i dunno... you take Hill out of the line up O.O ....... jus sayin.... convert EE or Lawrie...... would be hard but lets be honest... dude cant hit for ****

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 10:29 PM
Lol I recall the excitement when we got Rasmus, a guy who has massive potential and we all laugh at the cardinals for giving up on the guy. I feel like we are on the same spot on Snider and if we give up on the guy so easily, sooner or later we will find people laughing at us.

BINGO! :) I'm concerned about that too, but I'm hoping they just want to give him as many as bats as possible. Additionally, they may be trying to showcase Thames and see what they can get for him later this year. Possibly this off season...

McJoe
08-04-2011, 10:30 PM
Last warning, no more personal insults.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:30 PM
Last warning, no more personal insults.

i got to be honest... hes not really hurting my feelings :P...... but alright sorry

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:32 PM
i got to be honest... hes not really hurting my feelings :P...... but alright sorry

I wasn't trying to.

Sorry if it came across that way.

Edit: I would respond to your above post, but I'm scared that no matter what I say I'll get banned, so I'm not going to risk it.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:33 PM
I wasn't trying to.

Sorry if it came across that way.

lol no i didnt see you trying to do that :P .... i got no problems

DVS
08-04-2011, 10:33 PM
When will you use stats to back your claims?

If swinging at pitches outside of the strike-zone was the problem than Thames would be in the minors right now. If defense was the problem then, once again, Thames would be in the minors. You can't disprove this, it's fact.

Snider swings at pitches outside of the strike zone 36.5% of the time, whereas Thames swings at them 39% of the time.

Defense, it's not really even close. Snider posts a 5.8 UZR/150. Thames posts a -5.4 UZR/150.

Sorry, but all the points you used for Snider to be sent down, applies more so to Thames. That's a fact.

First off, swinging at pitches out off the strike zone means nothing unless it's a third strike pitch. Theoretically a player could swing at pitches out of the strike zone 66.6% of the time and still hit for high average (probably wouldn't last long in baseball though)

Over the last two weeks, (start of the Texas series in Texas.)

Travis Snider: GP 10 Strikeouts 16

Eric Thames: GP 11 Strikeouts 11

Thames played in an extra game (3 extra AB) 5 less strikeouts
*Though I will give you Thames was hitting in front of Bautista 4 of the 11 GP*

YTD Stats:

Travis Snider: GP 48, H 42, HR 3, RBI 30, AVG .231, OBP .276, SLG .357
Eric Thames: GP 45, H 47, HR 5, RBI 22, AVG .280, OBP .324, SLG .467

So the only stats better then Thames is RBI's

Sniders Career AVG: GP 58, H 50, HR 7, RBI 26, AVG .249, OBP .308, SLG .426

Snider was sent down cause he can't hit the ball, something Thames CAN do right now.

As far as fielding goes I am just saying Snider looks like he doesn't know what he's doing out there. He looks sloppy (Manny Ramirez like) A good fielding outfielder should play gracefully, not play like a clumsy bull.

Trust me, I wanted Snider to be that stud prospect just like everyone else, but after 4 years it doesn't like he's going to be .300 30 100 guy, more like a .270 15 60 guy, and you can find players like that everywhere in MLB.

One other thing I will point out. When Snider came back up from AAA Vegas they created a new batting stance where his hands were above his ears to create a shorter compact swing. If you watch him now, his hands are back below his jaw, and he looks as though he's trying to put too much power into every swing.

All I am saying is he's not living up to the expectation everyone had for him in the last 4 years, how many more years do we have to wait until this guy breaks through. Jays have enough outfield talent in the system, why not trade the kid while he's still a "prospect" with value, cause he's just doesn't seem to be working out.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:35 PM
First off, swinging at pitches out off the strike zone means nothing unless it's a third strike pitch. Theoretically a player could swing at pitches out of the strike zone 66.6% of the time and still hit for high average (probably wouldn't last long in baseball though)

Over the last two weeks, (start of the Texas series in Texas.)

Travis Snider: GP 10 Strikeouts 16

Eric Thames: GP 11 Strikeouts 11

Thames played in an extra game (3 extra AB) 5 less strikeouts
*Though I will give you Thames was hitting in front of Bautista 4 of the 11 GP*

YTD Stats:

Travis Snider: GP 48, H 42, HR 3, RBI 30, AVG .231, OBP .276, SLG .357
Eric Thames: GP 45, H 47, HR 5, RBI 22, AVG .280, OBP .324, SLG .467

So the only stats better then Thames is RBI's

Sniders Career AVG: GP 58, H 50, HR 7, RBI 26, AVG .249, OBP .308, SLG .426

Snider was sent down cause he can't hit the ball, something Thames CAN do right now.

As far as fielding goes I am just saying Snider looks like he doesn't know what he's doing out there. He looks sloppy (Manny Ramirez like) A good fielding outfielder should play gracefully, not play like a clumsy bull.Trust me, I wanted Snider to be that stud prospect just like everyone else, but after 4 years it doesn't like he's going to be .300 30 100 guy, more like a .270 15 60 guy, and you can find players like that everywhere in MLB.

One other thing I will point out. When Snider came back up from AAA Vegas they created a new batting stance where his hands were above his ears to create a shorter compact swing. If you watch him now, his hands are back below his jaw, and he looks as though he's trying to put too much power into every swing.

All I am saying is he's not living up to the expectation everyone had for him in the last 4 years, how many more years do we have to wait until this guy breaks through. Jays have enough outfield talent in the system, why not trade the kid while he's still a "prospect" with value, cause he's just doesn't seem to be working out.

Im on your side.... but i got to be honest he may not look "graceful" :P in the field but hes catching the ball and his routes are pretty good.... He IS a better fielder than Thames... i give him that

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 10:42 PM
it was either him ot thames,.... so i dont see the problem

Not true, it could have been EE or Teahen. If it were up to me, I would have traded Teahen prior to the deadline. There has to be some team that would pick him up if the Jays would have to pay some of his salary. The guy barely plays for the Jays anyways...

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:42 PM
First off, swinging at pitches out off the strike zone means nothing unless it's a third strike pitch. Theoretically a player could swing at pitches out of the strike zone 66.6% of the time and still hit for high average (probably wouldn't last long in baseball though)

Over the last two weeks, (start of the Texas series in Texas.)

Travis Snider: GP 10 Strikeouts 16

Eric Thames: GP 11 Strikeouts 11

Thames played in an extra game (3 extra AB) 5 less strikeouts
*Though I will give you Thames was hitting in front of Bautista 4 of the 11 GP*

YTD Stats:

Travis Snider: GP 48, H 42, HR 3, RBI 30, AVG .231, OBP .276, SLG .357
Eric Thames: GP 45, H 47, HR 5, RBI 22, AVG .280, OBP .324, SLG .467

So the only stats better then Thames is RBI's

Sniders Career AVG: GP 58, H 50, HR 7, RBI 26, AVG .249, OBP .308, SLG .426

Snider was sent down cause he can't hit the ball, something Thames CAN do right now.

As far as fielding goes I am just saying Snider looks like he doesn't know what he's doing out there. He looks sloppy (Manny Ramirez like) A good fielding outfielder should play gracefully, not play like a clumsy bull.

Trust me, I wanted Snider to be that stud prospect just like everyone else, but after 4 years it doesn't like he's going to be .300 30 100 guy, more like a .270 15 60 guy, and you can find players like that everywhere in MLB.

One other thing I will point out. When Snider came back up from AAA Vegas they created a new batting stance where his hands were above his ears to create a shorter compact swing. If you watch him now, his hands are back below his jaw, and he looks as though he's trying to put too much power into every swing.

All I am saying is he's not living up to the expectation everyone had for him in the last 4 years, how many more years do we have to wait until this guy breaks through. Jays have enough outfield talent in the system, why not trade the kid while he's still a "prospect" with value, cause he's just doesn't seem to be working out.

He can? Could've fooled me. He's been terrible since moving to the six-hole.

YTD, simple stats prove nothing, as this demotion was based completely on the past two-weeks. Neither have been good, but Snider has never been given a fair chance to adjust.

Snider is a plus-fielder, the stats prove that claim. All you're going off of is that he doesn't look graceful. Have you seen Thames in the field? He's terrible.

He hasn't lived up to expectation, but he's still only 23. The fact is, is that the expectation were simply too high.

I'm not saying send Thames down, like I've already mentioned, but I'm sick of this yo-yo ****. It's making me mad.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:43 PM
Not true, it could have been EE or Teahen. If it were up to me, I would have traded Teahen prior to the deadline. There has to be some team that would pick him up if the Jays would have to pay some of his salary. The guy barely plays for the Jays anyways...

how could it have been teahen... he hasnt even played yet.... what does he effect?

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 10:45 PM
how could it have been teahen... he hasnt even played yet.... what does he effect?

He's played a few spot innings.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:47 PM
He's played a few spot innings.

lol not what i meant :P what i meant was hes not taking away playing time from anyone and hes not a starter... sending him down doesnt solve your delema... and you cant send down EE... if anyones earned more AB's its him... for me with EE its like i said with the rajai thing... if your gonna do something like that wait until he starts to struggle because like i said you cant penalize good play with a demotion... what message does that send?

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 10:49 PM
You DFA Teahen, cycle Edwin, Snider and Thames and have Davis off the bench.

You're clearly just hating on Snider.

Thames deserved the demotion just as much as Snider, and there were ways to have them both in the lineup.

Nick O does hate Snider (for some reason). He's the same guy that started a thread complaining about Snider his first game back from AAA earlier this season when he had a multi-hit game.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 10:53 PM
Nick O does hate Snider (for some reason). He's the same guy that started a thread complaining about Snider his first game back from AAA earlier this season when he had a multi-hit game.

:clap::clap: cool you know me better than i do..... can you come live with me so you can make my decisions for me?? i wasnt complaining about Snider... i was wondering if he was overhyped and he has been.... and thats not Sniders fault... if anything i feel bad for him for having all these expectations thrown on him.... its not fair to anyone.... escpecially him

koreancabbage
08-04-2011, 10:58 PM
He can? Could've fooled me. He's been terrible since moving to the six-hole.

YTD, simple stats prove nothing, as this demotion was based completely on the past two-weeks. Neither have been good, but Snider has never been given a fair chance to adjust.

Snider is a plus-fielder, the stats prove that claim. All you're going off of is that he doesn't look graceful. Have you seen Thames in the field? He's terrible.

He hasn't lived up to expectation, but he's still only 23. The fact is, is that the expectation were simply too high.

I'm not saying send Thames down, like I've already mentioned, but I'm sick of this yo-yo ****. It's making me mad.

well would you rather trade him for a known commodity in a package for like a closer or an ace pitcher? or see him sent down?

cuz obviously, he can't hit in toronto. Globe and Mail saying this could be the last time Snider could be donning a Blue-Jays jersey. probably traded off in the off-season as a likely scenario.

DVS
08-04-2011, 11:00 PM
Im on your side.... but i got to be honest he may not look "graceful" :P in the field but hes catching the ball and his routes are pretty good.... He IS a better fielder than Thames... i give him that

Give Thames 100 starts in LF and he'll be a better fielder then Snider.

Snider is 6'0" wrecking ball (Full back in High school) He's the guy I would want barreling down the third baseline for a close play at the plate. (like last week against the 6'5" Wieters) But as of right now Thames is playing better. Give it two week and Thames may be struggling worse then Snider was, and we have a new argument.

Snider may not be getting enough playing time over the last couple of years but I don't think he's going to get too much more with Bautista, Rasmus, starting everyday, and fight with Thames, and Davis for the last OF position. Plus there are younger players like Anthony Gose, and Jake Marisnick waiting in the wings.

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:01 PM
:clap::clap: cool you know me better than i do..... can you come live with me so you can make my decisions for me?? i wasnt complaining about Snider... i was wondering if he was overhyped and he has been.... and thats not Sniders fault... if anything i feel bad for him for having all these expectations thrown on him.... its not fair to anyone.... escpecially him

Just stating a fact that you were complaining about Snider his first game back from AAA when he had a great game. Don't act like a baby about it!

13Lawrie13
08-04-2011, 11:01 PM
Give Thames 100 starts in LF and he'll be a better fielder then Snider.

Snider is 6'0" wrecking ball (Full back in High school) He's the guy I would want barreling down the third baseline for a close play at the plate. (like last week against the 6'5" Wieters) But as of right now Thames is playing better. Give it two week and Thames may be struggling worse then Snider was, and we have a new argument.

Snider may not be getting enough playing time over the last couple of years but I don't think he's going to get too much more with Bautista, Rasmus, starting everyday, and fight with Thames, and Davis for the last OF position. Plus there are younger players like Anthony Gose, and Jake Marisnick waiting in the wings.

There is nothing that states he'll be anywhere close.

DVS
08-04-2011, 11:04 PM
well would you rather trade him for a known commodity in a package for like a closer or an ace pitcher? or see him sent down?

cuz obviously, he can't hit in toronto. Globe and Mail saying this could be the last time Snider could be donning a Blue-Jays jersey. probably traded off in the off-season as a likely scenario.

Eh-men :clap:

DVS
08-04-2011, 11:06 PM
There is nothing that states he'll be anywhere close.

Just admit your a Snider Fanboy, and all this bickering can stop.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 11:07 PM
Just stating a fact that you were complaining about Snider his first game back from AAA when he had a great game. Don't act like a baby about it!

lol i wasnt complaining ..... i just hate the hype around him.... I hate the announcers are all over his **** with phrases like "disregard the 153 average folks" and "this may be the right man at the right time" when hes gone 0-5 and were in extra innings... I hate the fact that people are expecting this kid to be an all star ... some people say he should be batting .300! hitting 40 homers!?!?! where does that come from?? its not fair to him if anything... No young player should be treated like that.... for all we know the high expectations may be contributing to his current downfall... we gotta let the kid play instead of saying how good he will be..... Could he be an all star.... i guess but i dont see it... but id like to be proven wrong.... i saw good stuff from him very early in his career when he first came up.... so he can hit... he can run... and he can field.... but hes not hitting right now and thats a fact.... i dont hate snider but im not going to suck his dick like everyone else.... Jose Bautista... hes earned fan boys and high talk.... Snider.. let him ****ing play first.... and right now..... id say Thames has the edge,,,, right now....

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:08 PM
Give Thames 100 starts in LF and he'll be a better fielder then Snider.

Snider is 6'0" wrecking ball (Full back in High school) He's the guy I would want barreling down the third baseline for a close play at the plate. (like last week against the 6'5" Wieters) But as of right now Thames is playing better. Give it two week and Thames may be struggling worse then Snider was, and we have a new argument.

Snider may not be getting enough playing time over the last couple of years but I don't think he's going to get too much more with Bautista, Rasmus, starting everyday, and fight with Thames, and Davis for the last OF position. Plus there are younger players like Anthony Gose, and Jake Marisnick waiting in the wings.

You forgot about Michael Crouse. Anyways, Gose, Marisnick and Crouse could be 2-3 years away depending upon there progress. Davis is a 4th OF. Thames could be a DH next year. Snider could end up in the OF or 1B. Lots of things can change over time so don't be too sure about your prognosis.

koreancabbage
08-04-2011, 11:10 PM
There is nothing that states he'll be anywhere close.

well we gave Snider almost 800 at bats and he hasn't shown he can hit for average, let alone power. One thing though, Snider has shown more speed.

you might call us haters (on snider) but we would call most of you guys homers, or man love, for snider.

its probably the AAA Vegas parks they play in that hugely inflate players offensive numbers (which could be the answer). Players probably hit homeruns by accidents in them. poor pitching in the league itself could result for these hugely inflated numbers. i don't know. As much as i want Toronto players succeed and be a "home-grown" talent, all I know is that if you're good, you should be hitting fairly well (or even average) in the majors when you're 23. it just proves snider is nothing more than a less than average hitter at the major level. I'd take his fielding over Thames any day however.

broncosfan_101
08-04-2011, 11:15 PM
Not sure if it's been corrected yet, but Wilner tweeted that Snider did NOT use an option in 2010, so he still has one left.

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:16 PM
lol i wasnt complaining ..... i just hate the hype around him.... I hate the announcers are all over his **** with phrases like "disregard the 153 average folks" and "this may be the right man at the right time" when hes gone 0-5 and were in extra innings... I hate the fact that people are expecting this kid to be an all star ... some people say he should be batting .300! hitting 40 homers!?!?! where does that come from?? its not fair to him if anything... No young player should be treated like that.... for all we know the high expectations may be contributing to his current downfall... we gotta let the kid play instead of saying how good he will be..... Could he be an all star.... i guess but i dont see it... but id like to be proven wrong.... i saw good stuff from him very early in his career when he first came up.... so he can hit... he can run... and he can field.... but hes not hitting right now and thats a fact.... i dont hate snider but im not going to suck his dick like everyone else.... Jose Bautista... hes earned fan boys and high talk.... Snider.. let him ****ing play first.... and right now..... id say Thames has the edge,,,, right now....

You either believe in a guys potential or you don't. For example, take a look at Bryce Harper...I think he will be a star. I'd like to give Snider consistent at bats over a full season and see what he can do. It can't be good for a guys psyche to sent up and down, change his batting approach and injuries. People seem to forget he is only 23. How many home runs was Bautista hitting at 23?

Bombtista
08-04-2011, 11:17 PM
If we are going to try and determine who had a worse last two weeks between Snider and Thames i think its clear Lind has been worse than both of them.

Obviously DFA'ing him or something of that nature is out of the question which is why a slump of a few weeks shouldn't result in a demotion. Snider was one of the most productive players in the league when he first came up and showed what he is capable of.

I would rather see a short bullpen, get rid of Ledezma or really any of them as they obviously are not helping our cause.

Snider needs major league experience and sending him down like this is a HUGE mistake and its not going to help his development at all. Sending Thames down would be the same problem though which is why its a tough situation to be in.

Twitchy
08-04-2011, 11:17 PM
The crazy thing about this is that Snider wasn't even bad since his call up. He hit 274, he hit for good but not outstanding power - the only thing he didn't do, strangely enough was walk. And I'm more confident in his ability to walk than really anything else, so that would bounce back at some point.

The two problems with Snider have been injuries, and the constant bouncing between AAA and the majors. Maybe he'll bust, but again, we'll never know if they only play him 20 games at a time. Until we give Snider 600 at bats in the same season, we'll never know just how good or how bad a player he is. 200 AB in a season tell us nothing.

And for all the people saying good riddance to Snider or he's a bust...are you the same people who were happy about Rasmus? Former top prospect, struggling in the majors, that doesn't ring a bell in this situation? I shouldn't have to spell this out, but it's the same damn situation.

broncosfan_101
08-04-2011, 11:23 PM
The two problems with Snider have been injuries, and the constant bouncing between AAA and the majors. Maybe he'll bust, but again, we'll never know if they only play him 20 games at a time. Until we give Snider 600 at bats in the same season, we'll never know just how good or how bad a player he is. 200 AB in a season tell us nothing.

I'd settle for a stretch of 400 PA's. Give him that many in one season, playing everyday, and make your decision. But <200 at a time isn't good enough.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 11:23 PM
You either believe in a guys potential or you don't. For example, take a look at Bryce Harper...I think he will be a star. I'd like to give Snider consistent at bats over a full season and see what he can do. It can't be good for a guys psyche to sent up and down, change his batting approach and injuries. People seem to forget he is only 23. How many home runs was Bautista hitting at 23?

thats not true.... i let things play out..... You said Bryce harper what about Strasburgh? everyone was saying hes going to be the next BIG pitcher the next big thing.... he got injured after what? 6 starts? could he still be big? yes... could he be headed for an injury plagued dissapointment of a career? yes.. and you said youd like to think Harper will be a good player.... thats nice i guess but that wont do anything... Sure id love think Snider and Thames and Lawrie and all of them will be good players.... but if a guy is struggling hes struggling.... i like Adam Lind for example but the dude has been **** lately.... im not gonna get all high on a player escpecially in baseball where anything can happen.... im going to let em play and see what happens.... Snider obviously isnt done as major league player so for all we know this is just a minor speedbump is his career...

DVS
08-04-2011, 11:23 PM
You forgot about Michael Crouse. Anyways, Gose, Marisnick and Crouse could be 2-3 years away depending upon there progress. Davis is a 4th OF. Thames could be a DH next year. Snider could end up in the OF or 1B. Lots of things can change over time so don't be too sure about your prognosis.

I agree with you, things could change. My only point is Snider hasn't been that second coming of Christ like some fans, (13Lawrie13) think he is. As I said in a previous post today give him till next years trade deadline, if nothing pans out, ship him.

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:26 PM
well we gave Snider almost 800 at bats and he hasn't shown he can hit for average, let alone power. One thing though, Snider has shown more speed.

you might call us haters (on snider) but we would call most of you guys homers, or man love, for snider.

its probably the AAA Vegas parks they play in that hugely inflate players offensive numbers (which could be the answer). Players probably hit homeruns by accidents in them. poor pitching in the league itself could result for these hugely inflated numbers. i don't know. As much as i want Toronto players succeed and be a "home-grown" talent, all I know is that if you're good, you should be hitting fairly well (or even average) in the majors when you're 23. it just proves snider is nothing more than a less than average hitter at the major level. I'd take his fielding over Thames any day however.

Using your logic:
- Does that mean Lawrie won't be any good since you indicated players hit homeruns by accident in AAA?
- On the other hand, shouldn't Brad Mills be an ace since he had a fairly respectable ERA?
- Bautista batted .205 when he was 23 (albeit in 88 AB's). That doesn't sound like "hitting fairly well (or even average) in the majors when you're 23" like you stated.

Nick O
08-04-2011, 11:26 PM
If we are going to try and determine who had a worse last two weeks between Snider and Thames i think its clear Lind has been worse than both of them.

Obviously DFA'ing him or something of that nature is out of the question which is why a slump of a few weeks shouldn't result in a demotion. Snider was one of the most productive players in the league when he first came up and showed what he is capable of.

I would rather see a short bullpen, get rid of Ledezma or really any of them as they obviously are not helping our cause.

Snider needs major league experience and sending him down like this is a HUGE mistake and its not going to help his development at all. Sending Thames down would be the same problem though which is why its a tough situation to be in.

It is a problem hes going down but they are bringing Lawrie up... so there really isnt a choice unless you just platoon Snider and Thames in LF and DH but that means they still wouldnt be playing everyday with EE hitting so well as of Late.... with Jose headed back to RF one of them had to go down.... and i dont understand why people are saying send down teahen... that solves nothing.... dude isnt starting who does that benefit.... Snider isnt done in the majors.... and like everyone says hes 23.... he has pleanty of time left in his career..

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:28 PM
I agree with you, things could change. My only point is Snider hasn't been that second coming of Christ like some fans, (13Lawrie13) think he is. As I said in a previous post today give him till next years trade deadline, if nothing pans out, ship him.

Fair enough. I just want the guy to have consistent at bats over the course of a year and see what he can do. I would hate to see the Jays trade him at a "low" value and see him develop into a star for another team. I'm hoping AA is too smart for that. I've seen the leafs do it in the past and it always bothered me.

GrantHustle
08-04-2011, 11:31 PM
Snider is i would imagine pretty pissed right now ....I could see him asking for a trade in the off-season .... maybe trade him with another team that has a young guy that hasn't stuck with the team ..... i think he needs a change of scenery

mlbfan01
08-04-2011, 11:34 PM
The crazy thing about this is that Snider wasn't even bad since his call up. He hit 274, he hit for good but not outstanding power - the only thing he didn't do, strangely enough was walk. And I'm more confident in his ability to walk than really anything else, so that would bounce back at some point.

The two problems with Snider have been injuries, and the constant bouncing between AAA and the majors. Maybe he'll bust, but again, we'll never know if they only play him 20 games at a time. Until we give Snider 600 at bats in the same season, we'll never know just how good or how bad a player he is. 200 AB in a season tell us nothing.

And for all the people saying good riddance to Snider or he's a bust...are you the same people who were happy about Rasmus? Former top prospect, struggling in the majors, that doesn't ring a bell in this situation? I shouldn't have to spell this out, but it's the same damn situation.

Well put Twitchy! :)

2009mvp
08-05-2011, 12:37 AM
The crazy thing about this is that Snider wasn't even bad since his call up. He hit 274, he hit for good but not outstanding power - the only thing he didn't do, strangely enough was walk. And I'm more confident in his ability to walk than really anything else, so that would bounce back at some point.

The two problems with Snider have been injuries, and the constant bouncing between AAA and the majors. Maybe he'll bust, but again, we'll never know if they only play him 20 games at a time. Until we give Snider 600 at bats in the same season, we'll never know just how good or how bad a player he is. 200 AB in a season tell us nothing.

And for all the people saying good riddance to Snider or he's a bust...are you the same people who were happy about Rasmus? Former top prospect, struggling in the majors, that doesn't ring a bell in this situation? I shouldn't have to spell this out, but it's the same damn situation.


I'd settle for a stretch of 400 PA's. Give him that many in one season, playing everyday, and make your decision. But <200 at a time isn't good enough.

Worst part is if the Jays brass really think competing is in the cards next year then the leash certainly isn't gonna be any longer come April. This just makes no sense right now, we keep saying it's sink or swim time and yet they won't give him the opportunity to do either. I just wanna bang my head against the wall thinking about it.


Snider is i would imagine pretty pissed right now ....I could see him asking for a trade in the off-season .... maybe trade him with another team that has a young guy that hasn't stuck with the team ..... i think he needs a change of scenery

The amazing thing is how well he's seemingly handling all this. Just reading his comments makes you root for the kid even more.

nithanyo
08-05-2011, 12:40 AM
Snider = Eric Hinske 2.0

Johann
08-05-2011, 01:01 AM
Snider = Eric Hinske 2.0

Hope not.

La11
08-05-2011, 01:37 AM
Trade him already when he still has the "potential" to his name!

Toxeryll
08-05-2011, 02:11 AM
Trade him already when he still has the "potential" to his name!

No way AA does that, he won't sell low on anything. If Snider was on a different team, I'm sure he will be the next guy AA will trade for.

1hardcore
08-05-2011, 02:12 AM
i just got home and read this :facepalm:....



I have to agree with some guys that he needs to stay in Toronto..... Snider probably feels really pissed off and wants a trade right now with all this circus around him


I honestly believe it's his confidence! Everytime he gets an out he's always pissed off ... puts his head down slams the bat on the ground or even doesnt say much just keeps to himself....... maybe he's trying to hard....


this is just me ...... but when was the last time he actually looked like he was having fun???

King Rick
08-05-2011, 02:20 AM
Sometimes it's hard to believe with all the hype he's gotten in the beginning of his career and at the time the most anticipated call up that the bust label is already coming out.

Well he's had what? 4 chances now to prove he's not... He comes up, sucks the big one, gets sent down to work on something, rakes in AAA, then comes back up and apparently hits his head getting off the bus since he goes back to sucking

King Rick
08-05-2011, 02:23 AM
Snider = Eric Hinske 2.0

Show promise then bounce around every season to a new team? At least Hinske got 2 WS rings out of it

Nick O
08-05-2011, 02:48 AM
Well he's had what? 4 chances now to prove he's not... He comes up, sucks the big one, gets sent down to work on something, rakes in AAA, then comes back up and apparently hits his head getting off the bus since he goes back to sucking

lol....

2009mvp
08-05-2011, 03:03 AM
Well he's had what? 4 chances now to prove he's not... He comes up, sucks the big one, gets sent down to work on something, rakes in AAA, then comes back up and apparently hits his head getting off the bus since he goes back to sucking

Define chances. I don't call ~100 AB's at a time a chance.

nithanyo
08-05-2011, 03:19 AM
Show promise then bounce around every season to a new team? At least Hinske got 2 WS rings out of it

I've always though hinske has a sweet swing but he was never able to put it together after the rookie season. unless snider fixes his **** he will top out as a hinske

13Lawrie13
08-05-2011, 07:31 AM
Just admit your a Snider Fanboy, and all this bickering can stop.

You see, here's the issue.

I use stats to back up my points and place them in my argument. Yet, when I prove that your opinion isn't warranted, you call me a Snider fanboy.

I think the issue here lies with you, not me.

13Lawrie13
08-05-2011, 07:39 AM
I agree with you, things could change. My only point is Snider hasn't been that second coming of Christ like some fans, (13Lawrie13) think he is. As I said in a previous post today give him till next years trade deadline, if nothing pans out, ship him.

I guar-a-fricken-tee you won't find one post where I called Snider the "second coming of Christ".

I use stats to prove my points. If someone proves you wrong you result to overshadowing that fact by calling them fanboys.

Well done.

nstojic
08-05-2011, 07:46 AM
Nobody had been anticipating Brett Lawrie's arrival to the big leagues more than Travis Snider.

The two have become best of friends in the short time that Lawrie has been in the Toronto Blue Jays family. They shared a condo in Florida with J.P. Arencibia in spring training and commiserated earlier this season when Snider was sent back to Las Vegas.

Now in one of those cruel twists of fate, Lawrie will join the Blue Jays Friday in Baltimore and the spot he'll be taking on the roster is Snider's.

"It's a business and a decision had to be made," Snider said. "Brett Lawrie is well deserving of the opportunity to come up here and I'm excited for him to get it. But at the same time, I wanted to be the guy who gets to stay."

Snider leaves with a season batting average of .225, three homers and 30 RBI. He had a spurt of productivity when he came back from Vegas but in recent games he seemed to have reverted to the off-balance swing that plagued him earlier in the year.


"Those are decisions not in my control," Snider said. "I'd be lying if I said I wasn't frustrated when these things happen but, again, when you put it all in perspective it's not a decision that I can control.

"I can play better and that's the bottom line. Moving forward, that's the mindset I have to keep.

"As a competitor, you never want to hear somebody tell you you're not good enough to be on the team. I felt like I've helped this team win some ball games. At the same time, I try and keep it in perspective as a young guy trying to mature and knowing what you can control and what you can't."

During his previous stay in Vegas, Snider clicked with hitting coach Chad Mottola and is looking forward to working with him again.

"It's a matter getting back into the routine I established when I came back up and the last two weeks it's been inconsistent," Snider said. "The key to staying here is to be consistent. So I'm looking forward to seeing Chad and spending some time getting some things ironed out."

With less than a month left before rosters expand on September 1, Snider is a likely candidate to come back to Toronto at that time, or even before, if the need arises.

"I'd like to think so, but nothing is guaranteed. My focus is to go home for a couple of days and get my mind right to go into Vegas with the right attitude and doing what I have to do to continue to progress as a player and as a person."

link (link)

wamco
08-05-2011, 07:55 AM
they were saying he was here to stay. no wonder the guy has been struggling, he has not been given a fair chance by this organization. stupid move.

He has struggled because he hasn't shown he can hit MLB pitching

nstojic
08-05-2011, 07:56 AM
Blame it on Edwin Encarnacion.

He has taken a ton of criticism from Toronto Blue Jays fans over the past three seasons because of his inconsistent offence and patchy defence.

And now that he is doing well for the Jays, fans can blame him for pushing Travis Snider back to the minor leagues.

When Jays general manager Alex Anthopoulos decided to promote top prospect Brett Lawrie to the majors, he faced a difficult numbers game.

Lawrie will play third base. Jose Bautista will return to right field. That left the Jays with one too many outfielders, and with Encarnacion batting .350 with a 1.047 OPS (on-base plus slugging percentage) since July 7, neither Snider nor Eric Thames was about to dislodge him from the DH spot.

“On the season overall, Eric’s played a little bit better than Travis,” Anthopoulos said. “We had to make a decision, but we could have gone the other way as well. Things can change.”

Snider hit .391 in his first 10 games back after two months at Triple-A Las Vegas, but over the past two weeks he has batted well below .200.

Thames, 24, has also slumped over the same period. But he will continue to play regularly, moving from right field to left. Snider, 23, goes back to Vegas.

“It was not an easy decision to make,” Anthopoulos said. “We went back and forth on it for a while.”

When they sent him down in April, the Jays gave Snider specific orders to change his hitting mechanics. Not this time. The decision came down to “player performance,” Anthopoulos said.

“When either somebody gets hurt or someone’s performance slips, he’ll be back up here,” the GM said.

A first-round draft pick in 2006, Snider has shown flashes of brilliance over three seasons, but has spent parts of each season in the minors, meaning he is out of options after this season. Entering this year, the Jays seemed committed to keeping him in the lineup for a full season, and they sent the same message after he returned from Vegas at the beginning of July.

“The rationale here is strictly that we had to make a decision,” Antopoulos said. “We wanted to find out about Brett Lawrie sooner rather than later. We wanted to get him some August at-bats to get a little bit more of a read on him. So he deserved to be up here.”

And in the new meritocracy of the Blue Jays, someone had to go.

Encarnacion has a club option for next season in his contract. The Jays want to let him continue to play to help them decide whether to being him back.

“We want to continue to evaluate him, especially considering how well he’s played in the months of June and July,” Anthopoulos said. “He’s really started to come around and hit the way we hoped he would.”

For now, at least, Snider and Thames are in a battle for the same job.

“Both players we see as having a chance to be here long-term and having a chance to be part of this core,” the GM said.

national post (national post)

nstojic
08-05-2011, 08:02 AM
Like the stock market, Travis Snider’s career fell into “official correction territory” on Thursday.

Never mind being sacrificed for Brett Lawrie, who is nothing less than this city’s Own Personal Baseball Moses , or Eric Thames. But Edwin Encarnacion? Old E-5 himself? What’s up with that?

from jeff blair, globe and mail...

read on... (read on...)

DVS
08-05-2011, 08:04 AM
I guar-a-fricken-tee you won't find one post where I called Snider the "second coming of Christ".

I use stats to prove my points. If someone proves you wrong you result to overshadowing that fact by calling them fanboys.

Well done.

You never proved me wrong Fanboy.

Thames did more with the opportunity he got, Snider didn't that's why he's in AAA Vegas today. End of story, stats or no stats.

Give Snider 500 AB next year, if he still blows then the Jays send him packing. That's if he doesn't get moved during the off season. Remember baseball is a business, and Snider is an asset (right now) Jays need a new bullpen, lock down closer, and a veteran starting arm. with AA being the master mind that he is, it wouldn't surprise me if Snider gets moved in the next 12 months.

Rotator
08-05-2011, 10:30 AM
from jeff blair, globe and mail...

read on... (read on...)

"Thames needs to burn those fielding videos that Patterson left him" :D

13Lawrie13
08-05-2011, 10:56 AM
You never proved me wrong Fanboy.

Thames did more with the opportunity he got, Snider didn't that's why he's in AAA Vegas today. End of story, stats or no stats.

Give Snider 500 AB next year, if he still blows then the Jays send him packing. That's if he doesn't get moved during the off season. Remember baseball is a business, and Snider is an asset (right now) Jays need a new bullpen, lock down closer, and a veteran starting arm. with AA being the master mind that he is, it wouldn't surprise me if Snider gets moved in the next 12 months.

My points been proven.

nithanyo
08-05-2011, 12:06 PM
He has struggled because he hasn't shown he can hit MLB pitching

This.

He wasn't hitting so he was sent down. People should stop complaining.

As for EE staying I think it's to drive up his trade value. He's batting in the .270's and if we can move this guy it makes alot of sense. It also makes sense to move snider in the offseason. By keepin him in the minors u prevent his stock from plummeting

Nick O
08-05-2011, 12:41 PM
My points been proven.

I dont think your Snider fan boy for thinking hes
better than Thames.... but at the same time it doesnt make us SNider haters ar Thames fanboys for thinking Thames is better than SNider... they both have alot of pros and cons and both are very young... way to early to determine whos going to be better and i imagine AA and Ferrel and the whole front office had a hard time deciding which one to send down....

StayOnBoard
08-05-2011, 12:44 PM
This.

He wasn't hitting so he was sent down. People should stop complaining.

As for EE staying I think it's to drive up his trade value. He's batting in the .270's and if we can move this guy it makes alot of sense. It also makes sense to move snider in the offseason. By keepin him in the minors u prevent his stock from plummeting

Funny... I said this yesterday and was told I don't know what I'm talking about....

I'll just sit this one out and watch :)

13Lawrie13
08-05-2011, 12:45 PM
I dont think your Snider fan boy for thinking hes
better than Thames.... but at the same time it doesnt make us SNider haters ar Thames fanboys for thinking Thames is better than SNider... they both have alot of pros and cons and both are very young... way to early to determine whos going to be better and i imagine AA and Ferrel and the whole front office had a hard time deciding which one to send down....

Okay, fair enough.

King Rick
08-05-2011, 12:50 PM
from jeff blair, globe and mail...

read on... (read on...)

Seriously looked like it was written by a butthurt Snider fanboy

rapsjaysfan88
08-05-2011, 12:54 PM
if we could combine sniders speed and defense, with thames bat,then we would have something. sadly doesnt work that way.

darth helmet
08-05-2011, 01:03 PM
if we could combine sniders speed and defense, with thames bat,then we would have something. sadly doesnt work that way.

Although if such technology did exist, I would prefer to combine Bautista's bat with Rajai's speed and JMac's defence then I'd clone that player 8 times.

Twitchy
08-05-2011, 01:03 PM
This.

He wasn't hitting so he was sent down. People should stop complaining.

As for EE staying I think it's to drive up his trade value. He's batting in the .270's and if we can move this guy it makes alot of sense. It also makes sense to move snider in the offseason. By keepin him in the minors u prevent his stock from plummeting

Since July 4th, Snider's call up:

Thames: 239/287/402
Snider: 274/276/442

So let's cut this nonsense that Snider hasn't been hitting and was sent down because of it. Since Snider's been called up he's outhit Thames. The only thing that's out of whack is his plate discipline, and that's the one thing we can rely on him doing even if you don't believe he can hit major league pitching.

Let's get one thing straight - if anybody deserved a demotion, it's Thames, and not Snider. Snider's the one who's been hitting for power. Snider's the one who's been hitting for average. Not Thames. At least not since July started.

This was a poor decision by AA. Clearly there's something about Snider that they don't like. Because any time he's struggled, they refuse to give him a chance to work his way out of it. Why is Thames allowed to hit 200 and play in the majors, while Snider hits 200 and he gets demoted?

Don't buy the kool aid this time. AA has been very good when it comes to trades, but he's been exceptionally shortsighted when it comes to Snider's development. Anybody who says Snider deserves the demotion should take a good long look at the numbers I showed earlier, because it's not particularly close that Snider has outhit Thames. Even if you want to bring up the past 2-3 weeks, it's worth nothing that Thames has been around a 500 OPS during that time. So it's not like he earned the right to stay either.

McJoe
08-05-2011, 01:09 PM
^^Since July 4th...

Travis Snider -- .274/.276/.442/.718, 10 doubles, 2 homers, 18 RBI, 32 Ks
Eric Thames -- .239/.287/.402/.689, 7 doubles, 1 triple, 2 homers, 13 RBI, 21 Ks

Snider has out hit Thames by almost 40 points in their averages and SLGs.

Towelie
08-05-2011, 01:23 PM
Snider had a single walk? I'm sorry but if it wasn't for he had a .500 BABIP when he first came up for a week then it wouldn't be close. Not to mention who cares about AVG when he's still getting on base more then Snider was. I do agree Snider shouldn't have went down just because he's done everything in AAA.

Nick O
08-05-2011, 01:26 PM
^^Since July 4th...

Travis Snider -- .274/.276/.442/.718, 10 doubles, 2 homers, 18 RBI, 32 Ks
Eric Thames -- .239/.287/.402/.689, 7 doubles, 1 triple, 2 homers, 13 RBI, 21 Ks

Snider has out hit Thames by almost 40 points in their averages and SLGs.

This whole season Thames Batting average is higher than Sniders ON BASE PERCENTAGE! ........... Thames gets a hit more often than snider is even on base..... and even in that stat pack you just showed Thames still has a higher OBP ...... Maybe they are sending him down to learn some plate patience because he cant draw walks and strikes out often because he cant work a favourable count..... thats a big problem in whats happening to him..... you can gurentee if he gets more patient at the plate than all his stats will rise..... He seems like hes trying so hard to get a hit everytime instead of waiting and looking for his pitch.... weve seen him hit... he just needs some patience and the stats should follow.. hes not done in the bigs and he will be a better player than what hes showing right now.....

Dol-Fan
08-05-2011, 01:29 PM
Snider had a single walk? I'm sorry but if it wasn't for he had a .500 BABIP when he first came up for a week then it wouldn't be close. Not to mention who cares about AVG when he's still getting on base more then Snider was. I do agree Snider shouldn't have went down just because he's done everything in AAA.

That's the thing. He needs to be given time to adjust to ML pitching, understand what pitches to swing at and what to take. He hits everything in AAA and needs to realize that he can't do that in the majors. The only way he learns that is by exposing him to ML pitching and help him make adjustments. His stints in the majors have been too short to allow him to figure out major league pitching.

As many of us have said...the kid needs a full season in the majors. Leave him alone. If he sucks, he sucks, but at least we'll have done our due diligence on him. This was a throw-away year anyway, so it was the time to let him at it.

miller74
08-05-2011, 01:30 PM
Snider made adjustments, results were there, i really think they had to let him get out of his slump in the MLB. IMO Snider is more important to the future than Thames

North Yorker
08-05-2011, 01:30 PM
This whole season Thames Batting average is higher than Sniders ON BASE PERCENTAGE! ........... Thames gets a hit more often than snider is even on base..... and even in that stat pack you just showed Thames still has a higher OBP ...... Maybe they are sending him down to learn some plate patience because he cant draw walks and strikes out often because he cant work a favourable count..... thats a big problem in whats happening to him..... you can gurentee if he gets more patient at the plate than all his stats will rise..... He seems like hes trying so hard to get a hit everytime instead of waiting and looking for his pitch.... weve seen him hit... he just needs some patience and the stats should follow

How many walks does Thames have since moving from the 2 hole?

I'll give you a hint, it's 1. Thames has just as much trouble walking than Snider.

Nick O
08-05-2011, 01:35 PM
How many walks does Thames have since moving from the 2 hole?

I'll give you a hint, it's 1. Thames has just as much trouble walking than Snider.

I KNOW!!!! my point is at this point in time there is basically nothing seperating the two... you look at their pros and cons and its pretty even.... but in the end one of em had to go down to bring lawrie in and front office chose snider.... i imagine it wasnt an easy decision but it is what it is..... either way doesnt matter who they choose were left with a young impatient hitter who strikes out alot..... Thames will be in LF/DH so his Fielding really wont play that big a role..... in all it really works out to the same thing.... i suppose they felt that Thames was a better hitter due to the seasonal statistics..

Twitchy
08-05-2011, 01:41 PM
Snider had a single walk? I'm sorry but if it wasn't for he had a .500 BABIP when he first came up for a week then it wouldn't be close. Not to mention who cares about AVG when he's still getting on base more then Snider was. I do agree Snider shouldn't have went down just because he's done everything in AAA.

Earlier in the season Snider & Thames were both demoted when they were walking at pretty decent clips - Snider had a 10% BB rate and Thames was around the same. The problem, was that they weren't hitting for average and power. Blame BABIP, blame whatever you want, but they were walking at a pretty solid clip.

Well, Thames and Snider got "the message". Production for the Jays is about average and power, not silly things like base clogging. It's not a surprise that Thames & Snider have walked significantly less than they have at any other level in the minors (and even in Snider's case, earlier in the season) since they've come back.

It's one of the things I'm really disappointed about. By demoting Thames & Snider when they did, it sent the message, regardless of the intent, that you're not going to stay in the majors if all you do is walk (and, have bad luck on balls in play).

That's why Snider & Thames have walked so little. I don't like it, but the point is both of them have always been walking around a 10% rate, and that doesn't drop to 1-2% by accident. Doesn't matter how much your bat speed is struggling, a good batting eye doesn't disappear.

Dol-Fan
08-05-2011, 01:48 PM
Earlier in the season Snider & Thames were both demoted when they were walking at pretty decent clips - Snider had a 10% BB rate and Thames was around the same. The problem, was that they weren't hitting for average and power. Blame BABIP, blame whatever you want, but they were walking at a pretty solid clip.

Well, Thames and Snider got "the message". Production for the Jays is about average and power, not silly things like base clogging. It's not a surprise that Thames & Snider have walked significantly less than they have at any other level in the minors (and even in Snider's case, earlier in the season) since they've come back.

It's one of the things I'm really disappointed about. By demoting Thames & Snider when they did, it sent the message, regardless of the intent, that you're not going to stay in the majors if all you do is walk (and, have bad luck on balls in play).

That's why Snider & Thames have walked so little. I don't like it, but the point is both of them have always been walking around a 10% rate, and that doesn't drop to 1-2% by accident. Doesn't matter how much your bat speed is struggling, a good batting eye doesn't disappear.

I commented on this in a game thread not long ago. I was talking about Brett Lawrie but the point is relevant here as well - why is it that, as an organization, we stress plate discipline in the lower levels, but not in the majors? With Lawrie, the MAIN reason (other than D, of course) why he wasn't at the show earlier was his plate discipline. They wanted him to improve his walk rates. But really, what is the point? Murphy is going to be in his ear screaming "hack! hack! hack!" (quote from bomber...) as soon as he hits the majors. If his timing goes off at all and he hits a lull, but is walking at a decent clip, does he get demoted?

It's clearly not a skill that is valued on this ball club, because, as you've so nicely pointed out, Snider and Thames have essentially received demotions for being too patient. I'm struggling to figure out what is going on with this organization. It's clear that AA values plate discipline. If he didn't, why would that have been his main sticking point with Lawrie? If AA does indeed value this skill, then why is Murphy still around? And why do guys receive demotions for showing plate discipline? What gives?

scotttube
08-05-2011, 03:02 PM
Earlier in the season Snider & Thames were both demoted when they were walking at pretty decent clips - Snider had a 10% BB rate and Thames was around the same. The problem, was that they weren't hitting for average and power. Blame BABIP, blame whatever you want, but they were walking at a pretty solid clip.

Well, Thames and Snider got "the message". Production for the Jays is about average and power, not silly things like base clogging. It's not a surprise that Thames & Snider have walked significantly less than they have at any other level in the minors (and even in Snider's case, earlier in the season) since they've come back.

It's one of the things I'm really disappointed about. By demoting Thames & Snider when they did, it sent the message, regardless of the intent, that you're not going to stay in the majors if all you do is walk (and, have bad luck on balls in play).

That's why Snider & Thames have walked so little. I don't like it, but the point is both of them have always been walking around a 10% rate, and that doesn't drop to 1-2% by accident. Doesn't matter how much your bat speed is struggling, a good batting eye doesn't disappear.

This is quite the theory but it's well thought out and I tend to agree with it. I think there are examples in the past couple years with Murphy that exemplify this. The major exception of course is Bautista who credits Murphy and Cito for his new approach and yet he has never had this kind of plate discipline, walk rate or on-base percentage.

Towelie
08-05-2011, 05:13 PM
Earlier in the season Snider & Thames were both demoted when they were walking at pretty decent clips - Snider had a 10% BB rate and Thames was around the same. The problem, was that they weren't hitting for average and power. Blame BABIP, blame whatever you want, but they were walking at a pretty solid clip.

Well, Thames and Snider got "the message". Production for the Jays is about average and power, not silly things like base clogging. It's not a surprise that Thames & Snider have walked significantly less than they have at any other level in the minors (and even in Snider's case, earlier in the season) since they've come back.

It's one of the things I'm really disappointed about. By demoting Thames & Snider when they did, it sent the message, regardless of the intent, that you're not going to stay in the majors if all you do is walk (and, have bad luck on balls in play).

That's why Snider & Thames have walked so little. I don't like it, but the point is both of them have always been walking around a 10% rate, and that doesn't drop to 1-2% by accident. Doesn't matter how much your bat speed is struggling, a good batting eye doesn't disappear.

Good Post. :clap: it's ****** that it's the way it is. I imagine we will see Snider in hopes when he does show up in Sept that he gets caught on fire and builds some sort of value to him and then ship him off. Right now as it stands he has zero value and someone would have to risk. I can't imagine AA would trade him for nothing or at least a decent spec in return but for that he has to have a good clip some point at this season.

town123
08-05-2011, 05:16 PM
Earlier in the season Snider & Thames were both demoted when they were walking at pretty decent clips - Snider had a 10% BB rate and Thames was around the same. The problem, was that they weren't hitting for average and power. Blame BABIP, blame whatever you want, but they were walking at a pretty solid clip.

Well, Thames and Snider got "the message". Production for the Jays is about average and power, not silly things like base clogging. It's not a surprise that Thames & Snider have walked significantly less than they have at any other level in the minors (and even in Snider's case, earlier in the season) since they've come back.

It's one of the things I'm really disappointed about. By demoting Thames & Snider when they did, it sent the message, regardless of the intent, that you're not going to stay in the majors if all you do is walk (and, have bad luck on balls in play).















































That's why Snider & Thames have walked so little. I don't like it, but the point is both of them have always been walking around a 10% rate, and that doesn't drop to 1-2% by accident. Doesn't matter how much your bat speed is struggling, a good batting eye doesn't disappear.


I would agree with your thoughts to a certain degree. My question then would be this ... when does Rasmus get demoted?

( no clues where 'then would be this' came from)

rapsjaysfan88
08-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I honestly think snider should be left in aaa for a year. continue to work on the new batting stance and like zaun says(he needs to use his 2handed swing). It generates much more power-hr,2bs. Tell him YOU MUST WORK ON WALKING MUCH MORE,LEARN TO LAYOFF HIGH FASTBALLS,LAYOFF THE BREAKING BALLS THAT YOU KNOW YOU CANT HIT. screw stats,look at walks,strikeouts, and let him strictly work on plate disciplne. even if it takes a year,its a must to learn these things and he wont be success without learning these skills.

rapsjaysfan88
08-05-2011, 05:43 PM
^^he comes out at age 25 hopefully developped like he should have been.

GNick
08-05-2011, 05:45 PM
I honestly think snider should be left in aaa for a year. continue to work on the new batting stance and like zaun says(he needs to use his 2handed swing). It generates much more power-hr,2bs. Tell him YOU MUST WORK ON WALKING MUCH MORE,LEARN TO LAYOFF HIGH FASTBALLS,LAYOFF THE BREAKING BALLS THAT YOU KNOW YOU CANT HIT. screw stats,look at walks,strikeouts, and let him strictly work on plate disciplne. even if it takes a year,its a must to learn these things and he wont be success without learning these skills.

I agree, keep him in minors for a full year in 2012 and let the kid develop properly. Just forget about Snider for a year and bring him to team in 2013 regardless how hot he gets down in minors

Twitchy
08-05-2011, 06:11 PM
I agree, keep him in minors for a full year in 2012 and let the kid develop properly. Just forget about Snider for a year and bring him to team in 2013 regardless how hot he gets down in minors

Which would be the absolute worst thing to do. He's already spent a significant amount of time in AAA. He's not going to learn how to avoid swinging at MLB calibre breaking balls because he's not going to learn how to do that in AAA. What he needs to do is face real pitchers in the majors, and be given a real chance to adjust. Not be shipped off to the minors everytime he hits a slump.

And you can't really blame the guy for pressing, which is exactly what he's doing. Everytime he's struggled he's been demoted. I don't think he'll ever develop here, because he's always going to be looking over his shoulder just based on how they've demoted him.

I'm not saying they should trade him, but they do need to actually give him 400-500 at bats in one season to see what they have in him.

rapsjaysfan88
08-05-2011, 06:23 PM
^^ he goes to the minors but never works on whats needed.just hits.doesnt work on plate discipline.its been proven he cant work on it in the bigs.look at his last 20 games,no walks,strikeouts to boot,constantly swinging one handed,essesentially disregarding his so called new stance/swing/adjustments.

rapsjaysfan88
08-05-2011, 06:26 PM
i really want him to succeed but you cant learn fundementals in the majors.thats why guys are drafted and sent to the minors. to learn. you dont learn you dont play in the majors.

Twitchy
08-06-2011, 09:11 AM
^^ he goes to the minors but never works on whats needed.just hits.doesnt work on plate discipline.its been proven he cant work on it in the bigs.look at his last 20 games,no walks,strikeouts to boot,constantly swinging one handed,essesentially disregarding his so called new stance/swing/adjustments.

You realize his walk rate in the minors this season was 10%, right? If that's not "working on your plate discipline", I don't know what is.

And how is just getting hits NOT working on what's needed? Isn't that, I don't know, one of the most fundamental aspects of hitting?

And maybe the reason he isn't walking now, is because he did that at a surprisingly good pace earlier in the season, only to get demoted because he wasn't getting hits. What kind of message does that send Snider? That walking isn't a skill that's valued by the Jays. Because if it was, they wouldn't have demoted him when he was doing that and struggling to get hits.

When you're playing always looking over your shoulder because going into a slump (which every player does, by the way) gets you a trip down to the minors, you're not going to stick to your swing. The Jays have made the problem worse by demoting him everytime he does poorly. Every other player, Thames included, has been given an opportunity to work through their slumps. Not Snider. He gets demoted after 2 poor weeks? That's ridiculous, I'm sorry.

If this was really about performance or winning, Hill would have been gone by June. He's still here, which is really all the proof you need that the Jays really don't care about winning or performance based play time this year.

nithanyo
08-06-2011, 11:51 AM
I trust AA. Im sure Snider was doing something wrong or maybe rubbing the coaches the wrong way or something. Just think about it. They benched him for 2 games back to back last weekend. That doesnt happen very often. Even if you cant hit jack off of lefties, normally the team lets you play atleast one of those games.

2009mvp
08-06-2011, 12:47 PM
AA with Blair yesterday:

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20110805_120127_1800

What he's saying does kind of make me feel better abut this whole situation.

2009mvp
08-06-2011, 01:24 PM
The Lind comp is an interesting one as well, just in terms of a guy being able to put it all together. He mashed in the minors and was pretty awful in his first 3 big league stints before everything clicked in '09 when he was already 25 years old.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-06-2011, 02:18 PM
Didn't he have like a .157 BA since the ASG?

Maybe he does need to go back for a bit.

wagnall
08-06-2011, 03:59 PM
When he went down the 1st time he went to fix his swing. Then he comes back with this Ichiro swing. Who ever in AAA taught him that should be demoted to A ball. Maybe Bautista should coach him on his swing!!! cause the guys in AAA messed him up good. IMO

13Lawrie13
08-06-2011, 04:06 PM
When he went down the 1st time he went to fix his swing. Then he comes back with this Ichiro swing. Who ever in AAA taught him that should be demoted to A ball. Maybe Bautista should coach him on his swing!!! cause the guys in AAA messed him up good. IMO

What? Chad Mottola is a great hitting coach. Honestly, I hope he takes over Murphy's place at the end of this year.

Snider was raking when he came back up here, and raved about the advice Chad Mottola gave him.

Another example would be Lawrie. Sickels always said that Lawrie possessed good bat speed, but he says it's off the charts now. That, at least partly, has to be due to Chad Mottola's advice.

nithanyo
08-06-2011, 04:10 PM
From what i hear the PCL ball parks are tiny and the balls fly out of there. You cant really look too much into AAA numbers in that case. Even then snider hit like 2 HR's down there and a combined 4 or 5 all season. His power is his best asset yet thats what missing the most.

On a side note. I want AAA syracuse back. I dont think Vegas is somewhere you want young guys spending alot of time

OR better yet. How about AAA montreal??

13Lawrie13
08-06-2011, 04:13 PM
From what i hear the PCL ball parks are tiny and the balls fly out of there. You cant really look too much into AAA numbers in that case. Even then snider hit like 2 HR's down there and a combined 4 or 5 all season. His power is his best asset yet thats what missing the most.

On a side note. I want AAA syracuse back. I dont think Vegas is somewhere you want young guys spending alot of time

OR better yet. How about AAA montreal??

Yeah, you clearly misread my post if that's the post you were responding to.

nithanyo
08-06-2011, 04:16 PM
^^ no im not responding to anyones post. Just a thought bout how sniders power is MIA. and maybe a montreal affiliate.

13Lawrie13
08-06-2011, 04:22 PM
^^ no im not responding to anyones post. Just a thought bout how sniders power is MIA. and maybe a montreal affiliate.

Oh, well I definitely agree that we need to get out of Las Vegas.

It's so hard to judge our hitters, and pitchers, because of the environment there.

I also agree that the affiliate should be somewhere in Canada. Where isn't really an issue in my opinion, other than it should be somewhere outside of Ontario.

Nick O
08-06-2011, 04:33 PM
Oh, well I definitely agree that we need to get out of Las Vegas.

It's so hard to judge our hitters, and pitchers, because of the environment there.

I also agree that the affiliate should be somewhere in Canada. Where isn't really an issue in my opinion, other than it should be somewhere outside of Ontario.

it was fine in syracuse /: imo... i Liked the stadium too it was very nice ... although that city is a plie of crap O.O

wagnall
08-06-2011, 05:25 PM
Ya your right, Snider did comeback with a better swing then something changed when he was here for a while. Mottola is good, but something happenned. And I also agree getting out of Vegas would be good. You're almost better to go to AA N.H. where the parks aren't so friendly or move to another AAA league. Everyone seems to bust it in the PCL. Who picked Vegas in the 1st place. Should be closer to home, don't get it?

A little over reaction by myself. Its not the coach but the PCL that bugs me! But we have to make do with what we have for now.

Jay
08-07-2011, 02:46 AM
Here's a great article on Cameron Maybin and his campaign towards consistency and success in the big leagues. At one time Maybin was in the same shoes that Snider is currently in, struggling to live up to his top prospect status.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6833409/cameron-maybin-not-looking-shoulder

An excerpt:


Maybin doesn't profess to be a cautionary tale for organizations who might be tempted to form judgments on prospects too quickly. But it'll be interesting to see how long it takes the Cardinals to regret trading Rasmus to Toronto because of questions about his makeup and coachability.

"There are a lot of good players who don't tear it up the first day up," Maybin said. "It takes time. A lot of people say, 'If you can play in Double-A or Triple-A, then you can play in the big leagues.' I disagree. Things happen a lot faster up here. It's a totally different game."

wamco
08-07-2011, 08:12 AM
it's the exact same game actually

town123
08-07-2011, 09:09 AM
Any clues as to where Snider is? I haven't seen him in the LV lineup.

2009mvp
08-07-2011, 04:44 PM
^^He reports to Vegas tomorrow.

T.O.Bombinators
08-07-2011, 04:45 PM
hes taking the full 72 hours to report

1hardcore
08-07-2011, 05:24 PM
i say Travis will be back in September