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View Full Version : Henderson Alvarez to the rotation?



StayOnBoard
08-04-2011, 02:13 PM
CV could soon be shut down due to his heavy workload - I found the last line of this quote interesting


Blue Jays manager John Farrell said that Carlos Villanueva was sent for an MRI on his right arm for precautionary reasons.
"He wasn't feeling discomfort," said Farrell. "I think just physically he is starting to fatigue. You see it with a little bit less velocity, particularly the action to the secondary stuff. That's where you see the reduced arm speed not allowing that good bottoming out action to his changeup or any sharpness to his slider." Villanueva has already thrown 97 2/3 innings this season, his highest total since 2008, so the Blue Jays are justifiably concerned about his workload. It's possible he could have his next start skipped, though Farrell said that left-hander Luis Perez and top pitching prospect Henderson Alvarez are candidates to replace him in the rotation if he is forced to miss significant time

Thoughts?

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Alvarez not Perez...Alvarez not Perez...Alvarez not Perez :pray:

this would be so awesome. Series opener vs. Oakland, maybe?

BlueJayFanDan
08-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Would love to see him get the call.

ILDD
08-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Erm, what about Litsch?

Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Mills and Litsch surely?

If Mills falls apart after a couple of starts then it's September and the call ups can begin for several guys to give them a look.

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 02:30 PM
Erm, what about Litsch?

Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Mills and Litsch surely?

If Mills falls apart after a couple of starts then it's September and the call ups can begin for several guys to give them a look.

seems they like Litsch as long relief

Jay
08-04-2011, 02:55 PM
I'd be hesitant about calling Alvarez up this year. Too bad we don't really have many options.

2009mvp
08-04-2011, 02:58 PM
^^No excuse to rush him. If he's ready let him pitch, if he isn't there are other options (the obvious one being Perez).

1hardcore
08-04-2011, 03:06 PM
^^No excuse to rush him. If he's ready let him pitch, if he isn't there are other options (the obvious one being Perez).

Exactly

Halladay
08-04-2011, 03:14 PM
Can we not find an innings eater off waivers? I don't think he's ready and I'd rather see some mediocre number 5 type vet get some starts. Waivers or trade cash for one. Where's Josh Towers these days?

Kelly Gruber
08-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Can we not find an innings eater off waivers? I don't think he's ready and I'd rather see some mediocre number 5 type vet get some starts. Waivers or trade cash for one. Where's Josh Towers these days?

"After his release in Mexico he signed with the Independent Camden Riversharks."

Sounds like a solid option :o

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 03:55 PM
"After his release in Mexico he signed with the Independent Camden Riversharks."

Sounds like a solid option :o

He got released by a Mexican team? Awesome :laugh2:

Halladay
08-04-2011, 03:57 PM
I'm starting to think Kenny Powers is based off of Towers.

statquo
08-04-2011, 03:58 PM
I'm starting to think Kenny Powers is based off of Towers.

my thoughts exactly.

bartron_44
08-04-2011, 04:01 PM
You guys actually don't want to see Alvarez this year for a a few starts?

I hope to god this is true. He is the best arm we have in our system, and he has been "pitching" great lately. He has made 13 starts in AA and thrown almost 85 innings, so its not like he will be skipping that level in his development.

Sure Drabek got sent back down, but when Stewart got called up this year he pitched good too. We just had too many arms to keep him here, it had nothing to do with him not looking ready. He should have been 2-1 over his 3 starts, and only had 1 bad outing which ballooned his ERA due to small sample size. When Litsch got called up in 2007 from AA, he had an ERA of 3.81 over 20 starts.

Alvarez has better "stuff" then both Stewart and Litsch, so if he isn't walking people, I like his chances of being effective.

fatkev78
08-04-2011, 04:16 PM
John Lott
Snider to AAA, Villanueva DL, Perez up

http://twitter.com/#!/LottOnBaseball

Looks like Perez.

Dol-Fan
08-04-2011, 04:24 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/LottOnBaseball

Looks like Perez.

still a possibility that it's Alvarez. They may want Perez for BP help until Villanueva's next scheduled start.

GNick
08-04-2011, 05:13 PM
Henderson Alvarez is 21 years old. Why do you want to use one of his options?

craigerlee
08-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Henderson Alvarez is 21 years old. Why do you want to use one of his options?

If he's up for 20 days or less an option won't be used, and if starts next season in the rotation it doesn't matter in the end anyways. I figure if they think his breaking ball is ready call him up, from what I've hear the fastball and changeup are MLB ready.

GNick
08-05-2011, 04:25 AM
If he's up for 20 days or less an option won't be used, and if starts next season in the rotation it doesn't matter in the end anyways. I figure if they think his breaking ball is ready call him up, from what I've hear the fastball and changeup are MLB ready.

Alvarez is only 21 and played part season in Double A. He is not close to being ready. Jays aren't pushed for a starter, no need to rush him. Rushing prospects rarely work out ie. Travis Snider. Let him develop properly

craigerlee
08-05-2011, 07:52 AM
Alvarez is only 21 and played part season in Double A. He is not close to being ready. Jays aren't pushed for a starter, no need to rush him. Rushing prospects rarely work out ie. Travis Snider. Let him develop properly

All prospects are on their own timetable, no use comparing him to Travis Snider. Felix Hernandez debuted at 20, Matt Cain debuted at 20, Josh Johnson debuted at 21. I imagine if he is called up it will based on more than he's 21 and has only 13 starts in AA, I'm guessing if they think all three of his pitches are ready, then they might give him the call. Also there's no pressure on him to stick in the MLB as he'd probably just be up here for a couple of starts until Villaneuva is back.

North Yorker
08-05-2011, 08:11 AM
If he's up for 20 days or less an option won't be used, and if starts next season in the rotation it doesn't matter in the end anyways. I figure if they think his breaking ball is ready call him up, from what I've hear the fastball and changeup are MLB ready.

So technically, he could make 3 starts, get sent back down for a week, and then be a September callup and would have burnt 0 of his options, correct?

Twitchy
08-05-2011, 08:37 AM
I don't understand why they won't just start Litsch. It's just such a stupid decision to throw him in the bullpen considering who else is in the rotation.

And I don't even like Litsch.

craigerlee
08-05-2011, 08:55 AM
So technically, he could make 3 starts, get sent back down for a week, and then be a September callup and would have burnt 0 of his options, correct?

Actually I think I posted that wrong, its if he's sent to the minors for less than 20 days an option is not used. I'm not really sure what the big deal is about his options anyways, cause if we burn 3 options on this guy I'm doubtful he's the pitcher we thought he was. I don't even think burning an option should be a major consideration in whether he's called up or not, it should be whether he has at least 3 MLB ready pitches and can locate them.

GrantHustle
08-05-2011, 08:58 AM
I would love to see Henderson make a spot start....and on a side note i would love to see Farrell let Luis Perez try closing some games out cause Rauch and Frank aren't doing the job the team could have had at least 7 more wins if we had a solid bull pen

GNick
08-05-2011, 05:37 PM
All prospects are on their own timetable, no use comparing him to Travis Snider. Felix Hernandez debuted at 20, Matt Cain debuted at 20, Josh Johnson debuted at 21. I imagine if he is called up it will based on more than he's 21 and has only 13 starts in AA, I'm guessing if they think all three of his pitches are ready, then they might give him the call. Also there's no pressure on him to stick in the MLB as he'd probably just be up here for a couple of starts until Villaneuva is back.

Why do you want to keep rushing prospects? People should learn from their mistakes on the past ie. Travis Snider. A lot of people want to see the hot shot 20 year old prospect but Jays are not desperate for a starter and he should be allowed to develop properly. He's been in Double A for quarter of a season, he is clearly not ready.

koreancabbage
08-05-2011, 06:19 PM
Why do you want to keep rushing prospects? People should learn from their mistakes on the past ie. Travis Snider. A lot of people want to see the hot shot 20 year old prospect but Jays are not desperate for a starter and he should be allowed to develop properly. He's been in Double A for quarter of a season, he is clearly not ready.

Snider is a player who obviously can't handle the MLB's pitching.

A player is good if they can show they can play in the majors. I don't think you should be worried about sending a prospect to the majors late into the season. They did well in the minors and are being rewarded time in the majors, regardless the level they play in. We know Alvarez will be sent back down. Alvarez would be excited to showcase his skills on the major level. Some players get it from the get - go. Some others not.

I just feel sorry for the Jays organization who used up all of Snider's options. So much hype and hope in one prospect. When can one gauge a young hitter's skills? He's had almost 800 AB's. I don't care if you argue he's been jerked around but it's the number at-bats in the majors one should be looking at and not his age. Age is just an excuse for his lack of maturity. How long has Snider played baseball, time in the minors, played as a pro, number of coaching sessions. Time to stop blaming the organization and maybe we should look at Snider's personal growth (or lack of) to how he gets ready to be a major league player

Toxeryll
08-05-2011, 11:51 PM
Alvarez's strikeout numbers are starting to rise since the last month, he has 8.4 K/9 IP over his last 7 starts. I dunno if hes starting to develop a good third pitch or if this is just a small sample size.

rockbottom2010
08-06-2011, 12:53 AM
im sure the jays are going to call up Alvarez some time this season, expect drabek to be back too

craigerlee
08-06-2011, 09:16 AM
Why do you want to keep rushing prospects? People should learn from their mistakes on the past ie. Travis Snider. A lot of people want to see the hot shot 20 year old prospect but Jays are not desperate for a starter and he should be allowed to develop properly. He's been in Double A for quarter of a season, he is clearly not ready.

Cause I'm alright if the Jays player development think Alvarez should get the opportunity to make a few starts this season, I'm suddenly rushing all our prospects. Way to draw conclusions.:facepalm:

Still don't understand why your still comparing Alvarez to Snider, your comparing a 20 year old(Snider at the time) LF getting the starting job to a 21 year old SP getting a few injury starts.

Also you sound pretty sure that if Snider mashed a year or two longer in AAA he'd all of sudden be stud in the MLB right now. Another wonderful conclusion you've drawn.:facepalm:

Like I said all prospects are on different time tables, if the Jays organization think Alvarez has that 3rd offering and can make a few starts in the MLB this year, I'm gonna side with them not the couch GM who uses only age and service time in AA as his sole tools to deciding who's ready for the big leagues or not.

GNick
08-07-2011, 09:10 AM
Cause I'm alright if the Jays player development think Alvarez should get the opportunity to make a few starts this season, I'm suddenly rushing all our prospects. Way to draw conclusions.:facepalm:

Still don't understand why your still comparing Alvarez to Snider, your comparing a 20 year old(Snider at the time) LF getting the starting job to a 21 year old SP getting a few injury starts.

Also you sound pretty sure that if Snider mashed a year or two longer in AAA he'd all of sudden be stud in the MLB right now. Another wonderful conclusion you've drawn.:facepalm:

Like I said all prospects are on different time tables, if the Jays organization think Alvarez has that 3rd offering and can make a few starts in the MLB this year, I'm gonna side with them not the couch GM who uses only age and service time in AA as his sole tools to deciding who's ready for the big leagues or not.

We done these mistakes so many times in the past. Look at Drabek and Stewart a year ago? Drabek had the better arm but wasn't fully developed and now back in minors. Stewart hasn't the talent Drabek has but wasn't rushed - now he appears to be a good starter in majors. Drabek wasn't mature.

Alvarez has only played 2 months in Double A. Why take the risk of calling him up to quick? Not like the Jays are desperate for starter, give a look at Litsch or somebody else. What is the benefit to calling him up? I understand some fans want to see the top prospect regardless of how far along the development curve they are but best for team to develop them. Then again Fan stands for fanatic - what more can we expect?

If Alvarez gets lit up could ruin the kid's confidence, if he is even moderately successful be big push to keep him here. Text book example of Drabek from a year ago.

craigerlee
08-07-2011, 10:23 AM
We done these mistakes so many times in the past. Look at Drabek and Stewart a year ago? Drabek had the better arm but wasn't fully developed and now back in minors. Stewart hasn't the talent Drabek has but wasn't rushed - now he appears to be a good starter in majors. Drabek wasn't mature.

Alvarez has only played 2 months in Double A. Why take the risk of calling him up to quick? Not like the Jays are desperate for starter, give a look at Litsch or somebody else. What is the benefit to calling him up? I understand some fans want to see the top prospect regardless of how far along the development curve they are but best for team to develop them. Then again Fan stands for fanatic - what more can we expect?

If Alvarez gets lit up could ruin the kid's confidence, if he is even moderately successful be big push to keep him here. Text book example of Drabek from a year ago.

If you include Drabek's starts last season and his first 3 starts this year he was every bit as good as Stewart if not better than Stewart has been through his first 4 starts this year. Way to take a 4 game sample size to prove a point that isn't even true.:facepalm:

Also Stewart was converted to a starter 2 years ago, Drabek has actually been starting in the minors much longer than Stewart has, so you could even argue that the Jays were more patient with Drabek than Stewart.

Drabek's problem in the majors was he walked everyone, looking at their minor league numbers Alvarez is much more of a strike thrower then Drabek, so I thinks its a long shot that Alvarez walks everyone.

The benefit to calling up Alvarez is that this month is a cupcake schedule(No Yanks or Sox) perfect time for a rookie to get a taste. Also he can maybe learn a few things that he can take back to AA to work on. I think as long as the Jays aren't telling him this is your shot at making the rotation and if you pitch well in your in the rotation, then I don't see how there's a significant risk he has a mental breakdown and is ruined for good cause he got roughed in like 4 starts in the majors.

Obviously I'm not endorsing calling the guy up if he isn't ready, but if the player development think he is, then I have no problem with it. Your basing the fact he isn't ready on his age and his time in AA, which isn't nearly enough information to base whether a prospect is ready for a few starts in the majors.

fatkev78
08-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Here's what the article said after 'Google Translate'.

Looks like our boy is starting on Friday against the Angels.

CARACAS .- Henderson Alvarez received the call to the big team of Toronto and is scheduled to open next Friday at home against the Angels in Los Angeles.

At the debut, right-hander will turn 21 years the Creole 268 to see action in the majors.

Alvarez, a native of Valencia, exhibited 8-4 record and 2.86 ERA in 15 appearances at Double A this season before being promoted.

http://www.liderendeportes.com/Noticias/Beisbol/Henderson-Alvarez-recibio-llamado-de-los-Azulejos.aspx

Thanks to Krylian for the find!!!

ThunderZubb
08-08-2011, 03:31 PM
I think it is too early to call up henderson Alvarez to the majors so why are the jays always rushing our prospects. I am excited for the callup and hopefully he does well but this better not ruin the development and confidence.

North Yorker
08-08-2011, 03:34 PM
I think it is too early to call up henderson Alvarez to the majors so why are the jays always rushing our prospects. I am excited for the callup and hopefully he does well but this better not ruin the development and confidence.

Im pretty sure it's just a spot start or 2 until CV is ready. Then CV will give way to McGowan in September.

Krylian
08-08-2011, 03:40 PM
I think it is too early to call up henderson Alvarez to the majors so why are the jays always rushing our prospects. I am excited for the callup and hopefully he does well but this better not ruin the development and confidence.

If a few starts in the majors ruins a players confidence then he has no business being in the majors. Ever.

If he comes up here and performs well. Great.

If he comes up here and gets hit around. Oh well...he can use that to learn from.

People worry too much about a players confidence being shattered.

1hardcore
08-08-2011, 03:47 PM
Alvarez was the only logical choice since AAA had nothing .....

he'll be sent down once CV comes back ...

Luca68
08-08-2011, 03:59 PM
i dont know im all for him staying in the minors until next season he is still very young, but im also so pumped to see him play.

Jay
08-08-2011, 04:30 PM
I think it is too early to call up henderson Alvarez to the majors so why are the jays always rushing our prospects. I am excited for the callup and hopefully he does well but this better not ruin the development and confidence.

It's not a big deal, if it's for a spot start or two. It's a good opportunity to get his feet wet.

The Braves did the same earlier this season with their top prospect, Julio Teheran.

McJoe
08-08-2011, 05:21 PM
My question would be in regards to what happens in he dominates. He goes like 6 innings with 2 hits and 9 Ks do they keep him? Let CV take his time to get back? Bring CV back as the closer?

Chacin was called up similarly back in the day (the absolute only way they should be compared) except it was in September. Gave up 4 runs in 14 innings going 1-1. What happens if he does what Chacin did.

torontosports10
08-08-2011, 05:37 PM
My question would be in regards to what happens in he dominates. He goes like 6 innings with 2 hits and 9 Ks do they keep him? Let CV take his time to get back? Bring CV back as the closer?

Chacin was called up similarly back in the day (the absolute only way they should be compared) except it was in September. Gave up 4 runs in 14 innings going 1-1. What happens if he does what Chacin did.

Then we splurge about him all off-season, set unattainable expectations, and be upset with him next year when he either doesnt make it out of spring training or hits a rough patch.

Duh :)

StayOnBoard
08-08-2011, 06:16 PM
Then we splurge about him all off-season, set unattainable expectations, and be upset with him next year when he either doesnt make it out of spring training or hits a rough patch.

Duh :)

I love this ^ Exactly what'll happen LOL

13Lawrie13
08-08-2011, 06:19 PM
Then we splurge about him all off-season, set unattainable expectations, and be upset with him next year when he either doesnt make it out of spring training or hits a rough patch.

Duh :)

:laugh2:

So true.

2009mvp
08-08-2011, 06:26 PM
What is Villanueva's exact injury anyways? They've been pretty vague about things, I would not be at all surprised if he were still on the DL when September hits. Besides, with how many innings he's already thrown it probably makes things easier to have him out of the way until rosters expand.

Bombtista
08-08-2011, 06:52 PM
What is Villanueva's exact injury anyways? They've been pretty vague about things, I would not be at all surprised if he were still on the DL when September hits. Besides, with how many innings he's already thrown it probably makes things easier to have him out of the way until rosters expand.

I think they referred to it as a strain of some kind. Reality is it was probably just a chance to give him a break as he was reaching his innings limit. Since he went on the DL gives someone else a chance to come up, sounds like it will be Alvarez

North Yorker
08-08-2011, 07:03 PM
What is Villanueva's exact injury anyways? They've been pretty vague about things, I would not be at all surprised if he were still on the DL when September hits. Besides, with how many innings he's already thrown it probably makes things easier to have him out of the way until rosters expand.

inflammation