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Flamarlins21
08-01-2011, 04:20 PM
I just wanted to see the other side's view on this. This was written by one of the Reds' beat writers:


We know that the Reds swung and missed on the trade front on Hunter Pence, Michael Bourn and Ubaldo Jimenez. But is there a chance they were working on something much bigger?

A reader tipped me a while back that he has a friend in baseball who told him the Reds were talking to the Blue Jays about a trade Jose Bautista-for-Joey Votto trade. The Reds would have had to kick in a prospect as well.

I get tips like that from time to time. I usually dismiss them. But the fact that the Blue Jays sent a scout to Dayton to specifically watch Daniel Corcino, probably the Reds best pitching prospect, tells me they were talking trade with the Reds.

Votto-for-Bautista makes sense on several levels for the Reds:

–It opens a spot for Yonder Alonso.

–It fills left field with about as good bat as you could possibly hope for. Bautista is hitting .324 with 31 home runs and 71 RBI.

–Bautista is signed through 2015 at $14 million per year. He has an option for 2016 at the same number. Votto is cheaper next year at $9.5 million, but he makes $17 million in 2013 after which he’s a free agent. And he made clear when he signed his current contract that he was only interested in a three-year deal.

The Blue Jays, of course, would get their hometown hero — a player who could sell tickets.

The Reds would never confirm that they were talking about a trade like that. And there may be nothing to it. But it’s certainly interesting to consider.

BlueJayCarter
08-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Toronto is 22nd in attendance. Not to bad, six spots higher than last year. We don't need to sell seats, and I think Bautista sells more seats with the year he has done than Votto would even if he came over. If Votto does become a Blue Jay I think he would be an anchor with Bautista, not replacing Bautista.

So I think the rumor is utter crap. Thanks for the link but whoever came up with the rumor doesn't know anything about Blue Jay baseball.

North Yorker
08-01-2011, 04:26 PM
Yea no way.

Anything short of a Harper+Strasburg or Heyward/Hanson type package and you can forget about a Bautista deal.

Especially for Votto where we already have Lind who isnt great but isnt worth losing Bautista over to upgrade.

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 04:29 PM
That is bogus.

Plus we have another dynamic player in Adam Lind already at 1st base.

wamco
08-01-2011, 04:32 PM
Toronto is 22nd in attendance. Not to bad, six spots higher than last year. We don't need to sell seats, and I think Bautista sells more seats with the year he has done than Votto would even if he came over. If Votto does become a Blue Jay I think he would be an anchor with Bautista, not replacing Bautista.

So I think the rumor is utter crap. Thanks for the link but whoever came up with the rumor doesn't know anything about Blue Jay baseball.

-Actually given their market size, it is freaking awful.

Flamarlins21
08-01-2011, 04:32 PM
The other rumored guy in the deal, Daniel Corcino, is nasty, fwiw.

W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG DAY MID
9 5 3.41 20 20 1 0 0 105.2 96 46 40 6 26 117 1.00 .237

wagnall
08-01-2011, 04:36 PM
This sounds like crap but how many young fans would we lose. Every kid seems to have a Bautista jersey he's a hero to them. And Bauts bat is not the only reason, he's a leader and maybe 1 of the best team guys we've ever had.

jakedajewler
08-01-2011, 04:41 PM
Bs rumor, Bautista is untouchable at this point

1hardcore
08-01-2011, 04:56 PM
This sounds like crap but how many young fans would we lose. Every kid seems to have a Bautista jersey he's a hero to them. And Bauts bat is not the only reason, he's a leader and maybe 1 of the best team guys we've ever had.

X 1000

Bautistas' worked hard to be where he's at .... he's got a strong support group in Toronto...

If it aint broke .. dont try and fix it ..

And yes Adam Lind is at 1b so it's pointless.

wamco
08-01-2011, 05:04 PM
That is bogus.

Plus we have another dynamic player in Adam Lind already at 1st base.

explain how lind is dynamic. 817 ops 1bman. More like..."similar to 827 ops nick swisher", no?

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Why would the jays do this by trading bautisa for votto right now than wait for couple years and sign him as a free agent by keeping Jose bautisa in the process. Good that this trade was not made plus votto could be the final piece of the puzzle in 2 years when we finish rebuilding to be contenders.

Miltstar
08-01-2011, 05:13 PM
there is a reason this deal didn't happen...

:facepalm:

Macedonian
08-01-2011, 05:14 PM
I'd like to see Votto in our team, but would offer Tallet instead of Bautista!

Here's the deal:
Joey Votto + cash
FOR
Brian Tallet!

Nica
08-01-2011, 05:15 PM
So a Reds beat writer says this makes sense for the Reds ? Shocker.
Everyone else in the world, including the vast majority of Reds " homers", think this story is ludicrous. Jose is the face of the new Jays and is responsible for creating excitement around the franchise. 7 Million + fans who voted for him for the All-Star game show how one player has captured the imagination of the baseball world. And he's all ours !

3mikee_
08-01-2011, 05:17 PM
Joey Votto would not sell more seats than Bautista in my opinion...the home town hero thing is gonna last a week or two at best and it'll die down once the Jays go back to their mediocre ways.

Thank goodness this deal didn't go down

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 05:58 PM
explain how lind is dynamic. 817 ops 1bman. More like..."similar to 827 ops nick swisher", no?

Well he has been below mediocre for the past few weeks and all his numbers have taken a serious hit because of that.

If he can find a way to even out his hot/cold streaks with a little extra hot in there he is as solid of a first basemen as most teams have to offer.

I realize i basically just said if he was better he would be better but he has shown his ability to be a productive 4 hitter in the past and can do it again. My main point was Votto wouldn't even fit on our team right now so the trade would make no sense for us.

Luca68
08-01-2011, 06:04 PM
like somebody else previously said jose is untouchable right now.

BlueJayFanDan
08-01-2011, 06:22 PM
I would not be opposed to us moving Bautista at some point but the trade would need to be much more than that. I love Votto, and he is amazing, but right now Bautista is the most valuable player in Baseball.

mad_mooney
08-01-2011, 06:24 PM
With regards to Toronto's market size, the TV market is huge but the attendance market is actually about the same size as Seattle's....not huge. And Seattle gets the edge because it doesn't have to compete with the NHL.

As for the trade, its not entirely a bad idea....Jose's age will become an issue soon. Having Votto in place for a long-term is clearly a better investment.

But emotionally, I do agree that Bautista is hugely important and it would not serve them well in trading away a club leader.

Now, if it were Lind for Votto, that would be a different story...

2009mvp
08-01-2011, 06:35 PM
You guys are really underrating Votto (this isn't just a Canadian kid, this is one of the best hitters on the planet), but I seriously doubt they'd even consider dealing Jose right now.

the_jon
08-01-2011, 06:53 PM
You guys are talking about Votto like he didn't just win an MVP or something. :laugh2:

lmallia
08-01-2011, 07:01 PM
You guys are talking about Votto like he didn't just win an MVP or something. :laugh2:

This!

I love Jose as much as anyone, and yes right now he's the best hitter on the planet, but a 27yr old MVP isn't really a bad player..

GNick
08-01-2011, 07:27 PM
I just wanted to see the other side's view on this. This was written by one of the Reds' beat writers:

I can't see...Bautista is an untouchable and Jays still have Lind. Give us 2 first basemen.

JoeyBats
08-01-2011, 08:02 PM
If AA just finally calls up Lawrie we'll have our Canadian hero here.

H-MYK
08-01-2011, 08:03 PM
I can't see the Jays move Bautista any time soon. Although I wouldn't mind having Votto

Jay
08-01-2011, 08:06 PM
Disregard this, please.

You guys are much better than this.

T.O. Fan
08-01-2011, 08:11 PM
I kind of think that Votto set himself up to sign with Toronto after his current contract is up after 2013.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 08:50 PM
I kind of think that Votto set himself up to sign with Toronto after his current contract is up after 2013.

Exactly instead of us trading Jose for votto why don't we want until votto becomes a free agent than we have Jose and votto in which it will be better for this team. When votto is a free agent than we will be ready to contend by adding votto as our final piece.

SuperBad
08-01-2011, 09:15 PM
There's NO WAY that Jose gets Traded! AA Would have to drug himself with some type of Strong LSD, then hit the winter meetings trip'n out! No Chance the Jays Trade Bautista. His a bit older then all the young Jays, he's the undisputed team leader. The odds of the Jays Trading him are the same as SuperBad loosing a debate in one of these threads...AIN'T HAPPEN'N!

SuperBad
08-01-2011, 09:21 PM
like somebody else previously said jose is untouchable right now.

GO VIKES!! If the Vikes were to give Bautista a shoot at QB, I'm sure he'd lead the NFL in QB rating, TD passes & rushing touchdowns! #makeithappen lol

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 09:44 PM
^ haha yeah. Nobody likes a spelling officer on a sports forum. Its a weak way to determine who wins arguments as well

Spiderdan22
08-01-2011, 10:00 PM
It probably went something like this...

Reds - "Well give you Votto for Bautista..."

AA - "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha"

Click

SuperBad
08-01-2011, 10:15 PM
It probably went something like this...

Reds - "Well give you Votto for Bautista..."

AA - "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha"

Click

Hahaha!! I'm guess'n ur right on the money..but you forgot the part where the Reds GM said

"Did I mention he's Canadian? The Jays play in Canada right"

wamco
08-01-2011, 10:45 PM
sooooo personal attacks left and right nowadays eh?

Jay
08-01-2011, 11:05 PM
We have grammar nazis in this forum? Good to know.

scotttube
08-01-2011, 11:38 PM
This is one of those bad made up rumours. The Jays may have had a scout at a Dayton Dragons game ergo they are talking about Bautista-Votto. Such a bad leap by the author.

ghost dog
08-02-2011, 01:11 AM
It probably went something like this...

Reds - "Well give you Votto for Bautista..."

AA - "Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha"

Click

I think the click came first

King Rick
08-02-2011, 03:22 AM
I'd like to see Votto in our team, but would offer Tallet instead of Bautista!

Here's the deal:
Joey Votto + cash
FOR
Brian Tallet & FF

Reds make that trade every day of the week... Twice on Sundays

North Yorker
08-02-2011, 10:32 AM
Votto is coming here in 2014, or maybe even before then in Cinci falls out of contention in the next couple years and decide to trade him.

Bob_at_york
08-02-2011, 11:16 AM
That is bogus.

Plus we have another dynamic player in Adam Lind already at 1st base.

While the trade could be fair, it does not help our team because like you said, we already have Lind at 1st.

Kelly Gruber
08-02-2011, 11:16 AM
The main problem I see with this "rumor" is the assertion that the Jays would trade Jose Bautista in an attempt to attract more fans... I don't care it Joey Votto was born in the Sky Dome, look at the Bautista jersey's around, we'd lose fans with this move. That's the main failure of it. It does make some sense for both sides however, just too massive to pull the trigger on now.

Dol-Fan
08-02-2011, 11:17 AM
While the trade could be fair, it does not help our team because like you said, we already have Lind at 1st.

I'd do Bautista + Lind for Votto + Bruce :shrug: problem solved.

Billyen
08-02-2011, 12:06 PM
I hate when I miss the mud slinging. 8-) Looks like Twitchy's all over it.

I spoke about Bautista being traded before but, that's not not happening. I really want Votto but, not if we lose Jose. Makes no sense.

If we get Votto... Lind goes and a couple other good prospects. Jose and Joey...the JJ's as we'll call them...what a 1-2 punch. That's the only way and I don't see why AA wouldn't try it. Votto is a serious upgrade over Lind.

The only way I see AA trading Jose is for a teams top 5 prospects and another 2 for safety. I don't even think a team has that package. Maybe KC but the team would need to be making a serious run for it.

StayOnBoard
08-02-2011, 12:20 PM
I would be exceptionally pissed if we traded Bautista - outside of a deal like mentioned above (if the Braves offered Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward and a top pitching prospect - it'd be hard to turn down).

That's the ONLY way I make any sort of offer with Bautista involved.... and even then I wouldn't be happy (it would just be a good/smart business decision - wouldn't mean I'd like it).

13Lawrie13
08-02-2011, 12:26 PM
I hate when I miss the mud slinging. 8-) Looks like Twitchy's all over it.

I spoke about Bautista being traded before but, that's not not happening. I really want Votto but, not if we lose Jose. Makes no sense.

If we get Votto... Lind goes and a couple other good prospects. Jose and Joey...the JJ's as we'll call them...what a 1-2 punch. That's the only way and I don't see why AA wouldn't try it. Votto is a serious upgrade over Lind.

The only way I see AA trading Jose is for a teams top 5 prospects and another 2 for safety. I don't even think a team has that package. Maybe KC but the team would need to be making a serious run for it.

Texas has "those" kind of prospects.

Jurickson Profar, and Martin Perez are both top of the line prospects and both fill needs.

I'm not saying I would trade Bautista for that package, I'm just simply stating that Texas does have the pieces to make it happen.

Billyen
08-02-2011, 12:34 PM
It would need to be the biggest trade ever...On the Herschel Walker level, gretzky or the Teixeira/Texas haul.

I wouldn't be happy either but, it could be what's best for the team. I love my JoeyBats.

Let's stop talking about this.

SuperBad
08-02-2011, 12:51 PM
I hate when I miss the mud slinging. 8-) Looks like Twitchy's all over it.

I spoke about Bautista being traded before but, that's not not happening. I really want Votto but, not if we lose Jose. Makes no sense.

If we get Votto... Lind goes and a couple other good prospects. Jose and Joey...the JJ's as we'll call them...what a 1-2 punch. That's the only way and I don't see why AA wouldn't try it. Votto is a serious upgrade over Lind.

The only way I see AA trading Jose is for a teams top 5 prospects and another 2 for safety. I don't even think a team has that package. Maybe KC but the team would need to be making a serious run for it.

Lawrie and I were engaged in an epic poster battle. Lawrie was attacking my spelling and I was drop'n bombs of retaliation!! Twitch let us go at it for a bit and when the obvious winner emerged, he shutter down! Its all good and hopefully Lawrie has leaned that if you punch the angry dawg, your gonna get bit! lol

It's all good!

But back to Baseball...Again, there is no way they Trade for Votto cause they have Lind and Votto will be a FA soon enough if they REALLY want him (a fact brought up by a previous post). I think Bautista is untouchable, not only for his play..but also for his Locker Room Presence to the Young guys.
#UntouchableJoeyBats!

13Lawrie13
08-02-2011, 01:10 PM
Lawrie and I were engaged in an epic poster battle. Lawrie was attacking my spelling and I was drop'n bombs of retaliation!! Twitch let us go at it for a bit and when the obvious winner emerged, he shutter down! Its all good and hopefully Lawrie has leaned that if you punch the angry dawg, your gonna get bit! lol

It's all good!

But back to Baseball...Again, there is no way they Trade for Votto cause they have Lind and Votto will be a FA soon enough if they REALLY want him (a fact brought up by a previous post). I think Bautista is untouchable, not only for his play..but also for his Locker Room Presence to the Young guys.
#UntouchableJoeyBats!

I assume you're joking.

Your posts were both proved inaccurate and completely vacuous of anything intelligent.

It was quite obvious who won, even though I didn't consider it a battle. Nonetheless, when you began posting things that had nothing to do with my posts it was obvious that you were unable to respond because you knew I was right.

It doesn't matter, because you probably can't comprehend this post, but I find it appalling for you too even suggest that you proved any sort of point, when the fact remains that you can't even spell "grammar" correctly.

Bob_at_york
08-02-2011, 01:44 PM
I assume you're joking.

Your posts were both proved inaccurate and completely vacuous of anything intelligent.

It was quite obvious who won, even though I didn't consider it a battle. Nonetheless, when you began posting things that had nothing to do with my posts it was obvious that you were unable to respond because you knew I was right.

It doesn't matter, because you probably can't comprehend this post, but I find it appalling for you too even suggest that you proved any sort of point, when the fact remains that you can't even spell "grammar" correctly.

You need to stop getting in fights with people and insulting them. If you aren't seeing eye to eye with someone, I suggest you put them on your "ignore" list.

13Lawrie13
08-02-2011, 01:48 PM
You need to stop getting in fights with people and insulting them. If you aren't seeing eye to eye with someone, I suggest you put them on your "ignore" list.

I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that it takes two to tango?

Bob_at_york
08-02-2011, 01:55 PM
I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that it takes two to tango?

Superbad is banned, are you asking for the same punishment? :confused:

13Lawrie13
08-02-2011, 01:58 PM
Superbad is banned, are you asking for the same punishment? :confused:

Oh.. no, no that's alright. I'll behave. :D

town123
08-02-2011, 07:49 PM
I wouldn't make this deal unless Joey can prove to me that his spanish is good enough.

Calma down Escobar. Calma down.

Billyen
08-02-2011, 10:36 PM
Calma down Escobar. Calma down.

:laugh::up:

Nick O
08-02-2011, 10:38 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

idrinkpepsi
08-03-2011, 03:43 AM
The reports were the Jays were just scouting the prospect, that doesn't mean a big deal is going down. The Jays scout tons of players and honestly it would of probably never happened, you don't trade one of the most friendly contracts in baseball (He could be easily making way more) you just don't do it.

phillipmike
08-03-2011, 11:45 PM
Bautista is the best player in the game. He is playing against AL East pitching and plays 2 premium positions very well (average to slightly above). Add the fact that he is signed to a deal that pays him 14 million for potentially 6 years, you keep him.

Votto has a bat but it is not better than Bautista's at this point. Votto's contract is now where near the value of Bautista's as Jose has the BEST contract in the league. Votto plays probably the easiest position defensively on the field and does an average job. He hits very well but that is against the NL central pitching.

Dont get me wrong he is a great player that i would love to have on my team. He is a legit MVP candidate and a great Canadian baseball player. But if we are talking a deal of Bautista for Votto then i hang up the phone.

27 years of age compared to 30 is not far off. Baseball players play effective baseball in the mid 30s. Bautista has at least 5 more years of great baseball in him if he keeps it up. He is your franchise and i doubt AA looked at a trade like this.

Want an outfielder for Votto?

Snider/Thames and Lind for Votto.

Take a look at Lind's 2009 season and Votto's MVP year. Very similar.

Even take a look at Votto's stats this year and Lind's. Lind has had almost 100 less at bats and his numbers are close if not better than Votto's.

I am willing to take a chance on Votto but Lind is a similar offensive player (though not as good) but similar.

ThunderZubb
08-03-2011, 11:52 PM
Superbad is banned, are you asking for the same punishment? :confused:

For how long?

phillipmike
08-03-2011, 11:57 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=640249

Some interesting things said here.

Reds fans believe Votto requested to be trade close to home, preferably to Toronto. Some state that they know Votto signed a 3 year deal so he can walk and sign with the Jays only.