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MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 09:39 PM
According to a recent study, NBA players are considered the most unintelligent and uneducated athletes in the United States. The barometer used in this study was college education and high school GPA.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/4603/gee-thanks-for-the-tip-study-finds-college-basketball-football-players-are-stupid-unqualified/

What do you guys think?

matthewredskin3
07-31-2011, 09:40 PM
No surprise there.

IndyRealist
07-31-2011, 09:50 PM
Most amateur atheletes use sports as a way to pay for their eduaction. Basketball players use education as a way to get into the pros.

tonyd3b54
07-31-2011, 09:52 PM
didnt need stats to tell me this just listen to interviews, 75% of basketball players sounds like they're special people.

Devils05
07-31-2011, 10:00 PM
Since when is recent Dec 2008?

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 10:02 PM
I think I posted the wrong link. I'm doing research for a paper and that's one of the older sources. The source I meant to link is on E-Reserve at the library. I'll see if I can post it.

Iodine
07-31-2011, 10:06 PM
This thread is gonna be fun in a ignorant diatribe kind of way.

It does make sense, since the school systems and NCAA are enablers of them being able to coast through, and the NBA not having any education standards though

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 10:07 PM
NFL has educational standards?

Iodine
07-31-2011, 10:09 PM
NFL has educational standards?

The whole 3 years of college thing :shrug:

plus for some god awful reason some teams put a ton of stock in the wunderlic

Chronz
07-31-2011, 10:15 PM
But when it comes to basketball are they geniuses?

Mishmin
07-31-2011, 10:16 PM
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=greg+ostertag&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1039&bih=646&tbm=isch&tbnid=jgcczVfbpzRjJM:&imgrefurl=http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635200588/Its-O-ver--Tags-NBA-days-end-Wednesday.html&docid=OBC7-1Tk9dgj1M&w=306&h=437&ei=Cww2TqKrNKPcmAWl5qjwCg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=385&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=110&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&tx=47&ty=67

Two words. Greg Ostertag.

Angelus™
07-31-2011, 10:24 PM
Kind of figured that. Just look at the way a lot of them talk on twitter. I mean my god....

Hellcrooner
07-31-2011, 10:27 PM
mmmm since when Grades and Education = Intelligence.

They are very different things.

Have they cared to do some IQ tests around the league and see what happens?

Sometimes the kind of hours that basketball training needs to succeed avoids the player from being able to concentrate in academical exams.
This does not mean they are less intelligent, just that they happen to spend less time studying.

ichitownclowni
07-31-2011, 10:33 PM
Lol ot but Devin Hester sounds like he has problems

NBA_Starter
07-31-2011, 10:35 PM
I agree

six
07-31-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm not surprised, most basketball players are black.

LionsFan..LOL
07-31-2011, 10:41 PM
^ I saw that coming :pity:

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 10:44 PM
I'm not surprised, most basketball players are black.

Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

JayAllDay
07-31-2011, 10:46 PM
If you use Debbie Schlussel as a source on your paper you deserve a ****ing F.

This is the same lady who said that CBS news lady deserved to get sexually assaulted.
She's also using the public schooling system in the state of GA as her sample that was reported by the AJC.

As a former employee of the Fulton County Board of Education, if it wasn't for sports, GA schools will have so much more problems it's not even funny. This article not only skews what is conveyed by the AJC, but adds bunch of rhetoric that is actually unrelated, while completely misconstruing the original AJC article.

BTW
All athletes are stupider than Nerds, but Nerds can't jump as high or run as fast. ****ing duh.

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 10:47 PM
If you use Debbie Schlussel as a source on your paper you deserve a ****ing F.

This is the same lady who said that CBS news lady deserved to get sexually assaulted.
She's also using the public schooling system in the state of GA as her sample that was reported by the AJC.

As a former employee of the Fulton County Board of Education, if it wasn't for sports, GA schools will have so much more problems it's not even funny. This article not only skews what is conveyed by the AJC, but adds bunch of rhetoric that is actually unrelated, while completely misconstruing the original AJC article.

We are encouraged to use all quality of sources. The primary source I'm using is a Princeton Review study performed in 2010. I have to defend every source I use, good and bad, in an annotated bibliography.

To be fair my conclusion is inconclusive. I don't believe we can judge intelligence based off of grades or college educations. But I don't think the studies should be disregarded.

John Walls Era
07-31-2011, 10:51 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

You can definitely find that out on Wiki. I'm not saying anything cuz I don't wanna get infracted.

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 10:53 PM
You can definitely find that out on Wiki. I'm not saying anything cuz I don't wanna get infracted.

I think it's a very touchy subject to discuss. But I came across a few sources that commented on race. It's not so much race, as it is the poor educational system in inner city schools. If he thinks it's race I'm curious.

Hellcrooner
07-31-2011, 10:59 PM
again.

people its mistaking education and intelligence.

they have nothing to do with each other.

and btw playing the racial card here is stupid precisely because of that.

Black/ or asina or hispanic or jew or whatever) people is NOT less intelligent than White people , they have MORE obstacles to get a good education , many nba players have grown in getto enviroment, so they never had the chance to prove if they are intelligent or not.

Tony_Starks
07-31-2011, 11:07 PM
Doesn't sound like a impartial study to me. The criteria they are going by is not really a foolproof indicator. I know plenty of college students that are as dumb as a box of rocks, and highschool gpa? Yeah right, ever think that maybe instead of hitting the books they were working on their game and thats how they got in the nba in the first place?

MelkyNYY
07-31-2011, 11:09 PM
Doesn't sound like a impartial study to me. The criteria they are going by is not really a foolproof indicator. I know plenty of college students that are as dumb as a box of rocks, and highschool gpa? Yeah right, ever think that maybe instead of hitting the books they were working on their game and thats how they got in the nba in the first place?

How do you define dumb?

llemon
07-31-2011, 11:16 PM
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/4603/gee-thanks-for-the-tip-study-finds-college-basketball-football-players-are-stupid-unqualified/

What do you guys think?

I have no problem believing that

Tony_Starks
07-31-2011, 11:24 PM
How do you define dumb?


Being substantially behind most in cognitive function. Not so sure grades or merely going to college judges that though. An IQ test or simple assessment test would be better IMO.......

tp13baby
07-31-2011, 11:25 PM
All you need is a 2.0 for a scholorship to play college. combine that with the one year only needed to go pro in basketball makes complete sense. So many athletes only strive to get the minimum and the parents don't push them to be academically great. They get it through their head they are great and Pro is where they will be.

DaBear
07-31-2011, 11:34 PM
This is not surprising at all. It should be obvious to everyone actually.

BkOriginalOne
07-31-2011, 11:35 PM
College Education and High School GPA can't completely show a person's intelligence. Great Hand eye coordination, timing and maximizing athleticism is already a sign of intelligence.

Bill gates dropped out of school, so by this standard he would fail too.

tredigs
07-31-2011, 11:49 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

Where you live/how you are raised plays a strong role in how you are educated [and it's no secret that a greater % of American blacks grow up in poverty and receiving a lesser education (why this is the case is another debatable subject) in relation to say - Japanese Americans]. "Intelligence", though, I don't think is correlated with race to a great extent what so ever.

six
07-31-2011, 11:54 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

I was just making a stereotypical joke, not that a necessarily believe blacks are unintelligent. Look at the president.

But I do agree about inner city kids having a bad education. Look at Chicago for example, Chicago has the worst Public school system in the country. And coincidentally, almost half of Chicago's population are blacks. Do we put the blame on black kids? Or do we blame the schools? Why does Chicago have such a high drop out rate, is it because there are many black kids, or is it because schools are not teaching well enough?

Maybe Blacks have a higher drop out rate, just like they have a higher chance of going to prison or joining a gang. Do we blame society for this? Or do we blame blacks for making wrong decisions in life?

Evolution23
07-31-2011, 11:54 PM
A lot of studies show school grades aren't necessarily the best indicators of intelligence. But a lot of racist people here just want to believe what they are told.

Evolution23
07-31-2011, 11:55 PM
Where you live/how you are raised plays a strong role in how you are educated [and it's no secret that a greater % of American blacks grow up in poverty and receiving a lesser education (why this is the case is another debatable subject) in relation to say - Japanese Americans]. "Intelligence", though, I don't think is correlated with race to a great extent what so ever.

Smart guy :clap:

mdm692
07-31-2011, 11:59 PM
hahahaah i think the suns(not a homer pick) have the most educated roster lol

listen to nash, dudley, and grant hill during interviews they really know their s###


also the fact that we have a bunch of european players who probably didnt finish school and started playing for their euro teams at such a young age.

Evolution23
08-01-2011, 12:03 AM
I feel like hockey has the most ******** athletes ever. You ever seen these guys skating around with big beards and missing teeth? My criteria for intelligence is some one smart enough to pick a sport that is not as violent, therefore hockey players are stupid.

six
08-01-2011, 12:04 AM
I feel like hockey has the most ******** athletes ever. You ever seen these guys skating around with big beards and missing teeth? My criteria for intelligence is some one smart enough to pick a sport that is not as violent, therefore hockey players are stupid.

Are you saying that because most hockey players are white :mad:

PrettyBoyJ
08-01-2011, 12:47 AM
Compared to other sports basketball is the only sport where If you stay in school for 4 years it will hurt your draft stock (I maybe wrong, I dont follow hockey as much).. So guys usually want to come in for 1 year and leave which I think is stupid because they dont think about life after basketball or they can have career ending injury and never cash in on a big contract

llemon
08-01-2011, 12:53 AM
I feel like hockey has the most ******** athletes ever. You ever seen these guys skating around with big beards and missing teeth? My criteria for intelligence is some one smart enough to pick a sport that is not as violent, therefore hockey players are stupid.

How do you feel about football players?

Evolution23
08-01-2011, 12:56 AM
How do you feel about football players?

I'm trying to make a point here that college education has very little correlation to intelligence.

John Walls Era
08-01-2011, 01:21 AM
This is heading down the road of a Nature vs. Nurture debate.

Hawkeye15
08-01-2011, 01:36 AM
Our valedictorian was a complete ****. Book smart, but I could convince her to eat a ketchup popsicle with white gloves on, and then give me action.

Intelligence comes in all forms...

llemon
08-01-2011, 01:45 AM
I'm trying to make a point here that college education has very little correlation to intelligence.

Can't disagree with you there.

Some of the biggest idiots I know are college graduates

gaughan333
08-01-2011, 02:02 AM
again.

people its mistaking education and intelligence.

they have nothing to do with each other.

and btw playing the racial card here is stupid precisely because of that.

Black/ or asina or hispanic or jew or whatever) people is NOT less intelligent than White people , they have MORE obstacles to get a good education , many nba players have grown in getto enviroment, so they never had the chance to prove if they are intelligent or not.

I love how being jewish seems to have become a race. Not just here, but it seems like a lot of people think of it like that

blahblahyoutoo
08-01-2011, 02:28 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

as un-PC as it sounds, it does.

blahblahyoutoo
08-01-2011, 02:29 PM
again.

people its mistaking education and intelligence.

they have nothing to do with each other.

and btw playing the racial card here is stupid precisely because of that.

Black/ or asina or hispanic or jew or whatever) people is NOT less intelligent than White people , they have MORE obstacles to get a good education , many nba players have grown in getto enviroment, so they never had the chance to prove if they are intelligent or not.

intelligence != educated

Hawkeye15
08-01-2011, 02:40 PM
another factor in this study is that basketball is one of the very few sports where most of the league now has athletes that never finished college. With so many guys coming out after year 1-2, that part of the equation kills them in this study

JonnyBrav000
08-01-2011, 02:49 PM
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/4603/gee-thanks-for-the-tip-study-finds-college-basketball-football-players-are-stupid-unqualified/

What do you guys think?


I think that anyone who believes that grades during HS and College determine your intelligence are ignorant themselves.

School grades do not determine intelligence, as a matter of fact when it comes to grades the US is one of the dumbest countries in the world. I believe the US is one of the dumbest countries in the world, but it has nothing to do with grades, but much to do with the crappy educational system in place, and much to do with mainstream culture as well, and even more to do with how lazy most Americans are, who would rather spend hours playing video games or just scratching their behinds, then maybe acquiring a new skill, or having decent conversation, reading a book, being creative, farming, writing, reading, exploring. Much of what intelligence really is comes with action, experience and using your mind, not memorizing answers to a stupid test. Even an idiot can do that if he or she tries hard enough.

I believe basketball players are just as smart as other athletes. What would make them any less intelligent? Only thing I can think of is many of them leave College early, but honestly if you turn down millions of dollars to stay in school and get injured, then at this point can we say what an buffoon.

Intelligence is not about race or age, its about being able to apply mental skills on your everyday life.

Jack_Meoff
08-01-2011, 03:08 PM
I work with inner city kids from the ghetto in NYC, and the problem is that a lot of them dont have guidance in their homes and communities. A couple of lucky ones come across a good coach or mentor that teaches them the game and they use it as an outlet. But the real problem is that they grow up in a community surrounded by failure and ignorance. When they come from their horrible High Schools and into these top notch Universities they are already light years behind.... coaches and schools see them as pay checks so they push them through and use their skills for a profit.

You have to ask yourself if you were in their shoes, how smart would you be?? without any guidance or parents that cared about your education??

Many of these parents have no value on education, so how can we expect the kids to value it??

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 03:20 PM
didnt derek rose cheat on his exams ? and then was caught after he was drafted by the bulls and it resulted in no diciplinary actions ? this is the nba telling kids "hey listen if your good enough you dont need education, we'll take you on and youll make lots of money"

out of wade, lebron and bosh who do you think is the only one to finish school ? thats right it was wade. you know the guy who out smarted the other two and convinced them to play 2nd and 3rd fidell to him. he is def the smartest one of the 3.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 03:23 PM
mmmm since when Grades and Education = Intelligence.

They are very different things.

Have they cared to do some IQ tests around the league and see what happens?

Sometimes the kind of hours that basketball training needs to succeed avoids the player from being able to concentrate in academical exams.
This does not mean they are less intelligent, just that they happen to spend less time studying.


lol thats like saying i could go to yale, or harvard if i tried. what if you get injured and no longer have a career in basketball ? does school seem more signifigant??

RLundi
08-01-2011, 03:40 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

No.

Intelligence has never been proven to be a predisposition. Just because someone is a certain race or ethnicity in no way means he is innately intellectually inferior to another. Intelligence is an acquired trait; learned; and in most cases based on environmental factors.

To say someone is genetically predetermined to something, especially one that is contingent on so many different factors and variables is not only denigrating to that specific group of people, but also an excuse for underachievement.

Trace
08-01-2011, 03:50 PM
mmmm since when Grades and Education = Intelligence.

They are very different things.

Have they cared to do some IQ tests around the league and see what happens?

Sometimes the kind of hours that basketball training needs to succeed avoids the player from being able to concentrate in academical exams.
This does not mean they are less intelligent, just that they happen to spend less time studying.

Most of them have below average IQs, a lot of them struggled through SATs (which is the closest standard to an IQ test but easier) which is why Duke has always had a hard time recruiting because they're one of the only D1 schools that has an academic standard when recruiting athletes.

i.e Brandon Roy who blamed it on a non-existent learning disorder. SMH

Also America's K-12 educational system is horrible (Their grad/undergrad is a lot better though).

Hellcrooner
08-01-2011, 03:57 PM
lol thats like saying i could go to yale, or harvard if i tried. what if you get injured and no longer have a career in basketball ? does school seem more signifigant??

No.

It means you take Person A with a 150 IQ Intelligence and Person B who also has a 150 IQ intelligence..


Person A is the child of a Surgeon father and an Attoreny Mother in Beverly Hills.
He has everything he wants from day one, he is surrounded by kids of similar social circle.
He gets access to one of the Best H.S programs in the country looking after him and educating him, he also has the chance to travel often to other countrys and spend summer learning another languages. then thanks to his parents social nertwoking he enters Berkely and gets a Degree in Law.

By age 25 he will be in a highly touted corporation making tons of money.


At the same time Person B ( wich remember has the same IQ) is born as the snow flies in a cold and gray chicago morning IN THE GHETTO ( in teh ghetto) .
His parent is a convict that is behind bars serving 30 years for statutary rape.
His mother is a junkie and since he can get any kind of job she has to put on a red light everynight and whore her life out.
The hood is so dangerous that no one cares for what happens in it.
he starts ahving Drug dealers and car stealing friedns sicne he is 5.
he does nto go to school because is better to hang out with the gang and smoke some crack at age 14.

By age 25 ( if he does not die of overdose or gets shot in the head earlier) he will be in Jail for drug smuggling, or statutory rape, or assaulting a drugstore or whatever).

Well you can say that Dude A is more EDUCATED than Dude B.

but you CANT say that dude A is more INTELLIGENT than Dude B because the IQ is the same.


If they were exchanged in the hospital when they were born Dude B would be in the corporation and Dude A would on jail

Trace
08-01-2011, 03:59 PM
No.

Intelligence has never been proven to be a predisposition. Just because someone is a certain race or ethnicity in no way means he is innately intellectually inferior to another. Intelligence is an acquired trait; learned; and in most cases based on environmental factors.

To say someone is genetically predetermined to something, especially one that is contingent on so many different factors and variables is not only denigrating to that specific group of people, but also an excuse for underachievement.

They have found there to be a noticeable IQ gap between races however they haven't found a reason for it.

Also intelligence isn't an acquired trait. Above average IQ (>120) is biologically pre-determined, there are numerous studies to back this up.

Hellcrooner
08-01-2011, 04:01 PM
I love how being jewish seems to have become a race. Not just here, but it seems like a lot of people think of it like that

?

semitic race, it includes not only jews but many muslims too from the middle eastern.


Judaism is a religion of course, and there are white jews, black jews ( in ethiopia for example) and so on.

But MOST judaism practicants indeed belong to the semitic race.

Whats the problem wiht that?

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:03 PM
No.

It means you take Person A with a 150 IQ Intelligence and Person B who also has a 150 IQ intelligence..


Person A is the child of a Surgeon father and an Attoreny Mother in Beverly Hills.
He has everything he wants from day one, he is surrounded by kids of similar social circle.
He gets access to one of the Best H.S programs in the country looking after him and educating him, he also has the chance to travel often to other countrys and spend summer learning another languages. then thanks to his parents social nertwoking he enters Berkely and gets a Degree in Law.

By age 25 he will be in a highly touted corporation making tons of money.


At the same time Person B ( wich remember has the same IQ) is born as the snow flies in a cold and gray chicago morning IN THE GHETTO ( in teh ghetto) .
His parent is a convict that is behind bars serving 30 years for statutary rape.
His mother is a junkie and since he can get any kind of job she has to put on a red light everynight and whore her life out.
The hood is so dangerous that no one cares for what happens in it.
he starts ahving Drug dealers and car stealing friedns sicne he is 5.
he does nto go to school because is better to hang out with the gang and smoke some crack at age 14.

By age 25 ( if he does not die of overdose or gets shot in the head earlier) he will be in Jail for drug smuggling, or statutory rape, or assaulting a drugstore or whatever).

Well you can say that Dude A is more EDUCATED than Dude B.

but you CANT say that dude A is more INTELLIGENT than Dude B because the IQ is the same.


If they were exchanged in the hospital when they were born Dude B would be in the corporation and Dude A would on jail

This is dreadfully wrong. There have been studies that show that persons with higher IQ are more likely to pursue academic interests (likely more challenging) than trivial ones such as the ones you've described above.

So while Person B has less resources available to him, he would more than likely be "smart" enough to avoid such societal ills especially if he has a 150 IQ.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:05 PM
?

semitic race, it includes not only jews but many muslims too from the middle eastern.


Judaism is a religion of course, and there are white jews, black jews ( in ethiopia for example) and so on.

But MOST judaism practicants indeed belong to the semitic race.

Whats the problem wiht that?

That still doesn't justify the use of "Jewish" as a race.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:09 PM
Our valedictorian was a complete ****. Book smart, but I could convince her to eat a ketchup popsicle with white gloves on, and then give me action.

Intelligence comes in all forms...

Grades hold very little correlation with intelligence. This is a common misconception.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 04:12 PM
No.

It means you take Person A with a 150 IQ Intelligence and Person B who also has a 150 IQ intelligence..


Person A is the child of a Surgeon father and an Attoreny Mother in Beverly Hills.
He has everything he wants from day one, he is surrounded by kids of similar social circle.
He gets access to one of the Best H.S programs in the country looking after him and educating him, he also has the chance to travel often to other countrys and spend summer learning another languages. then thanks to his parents social nertwoking he enters Berkely and gets a Degree in Law.

By age 25 he will be in a highly touted corporation making tons of money.


At the same time Person B ( wich remember has the same IQ) is born as the snow flies in a cold and gray chicago morning IN THE GHETTO ( in teh ghetto) .
His parent is a convict that is behind bars serving 30 years for statutary rape.
His mother is a junkie and since he can get any kind of job she has to put on a red light everynight and whore her life out.
The hood is so dangerous that no one cares for what happens in it.
he starts ahving Drug dealers and car stealing friedns sicne he is 5.
he does nto go to school because is better to hang out with the gang and smoke some crack at age 14.

By age 25 ( if he does not die of overdose or gets shot in the head earlier) he will be in Jail for drug smuggling, or statutory rape, or assaulting a drugstore or whatever).

Well you can say that Dude A is more EDUCATED than Dude B.

but you CANT say that dude A is more INTELLIGENT than Dude B because the IQ is the same.


If they were exchanged in the hospital when they were born Dude B would be in the corporation and Dude A would on jail


what your talking about could be summerized in one word. circumstance. cirmustance doesnt have an effect on intellect. you could be in jail and get an education.

i know ppl from the projects that went through school, finished school and now have good careers. I am one of those ppl.

plus what does any of this have to do with what the study is showing ? its commonly known that most players in the league dont finish school is that because theyre mommy and daddy arent rich ? pls thats is an excuse if anything. if you want to go and get your education nothing can stop you thats the beauty of living in a country that is not 3rd world.

those "projects" your talking about are government funded to help less fortunate ppl. kids who join gangs and turn to a life of crime could be victoms of cirmustance but they have a way out and they have a choice to change theyre lifestyles, that is through education. no one says its easy but then again its not easy making the nba either. it does seem that players are more then willing to work on theyre game but less willing to open a book! and that is unfortunate but its true.

your example is based on two ppl with the same level of intellect being in two different situations. one is born with a silver spoon and the other is poor. what does that really have to do with a persons capability or desire to further educate themselves ?

Tom Stone
08-01-2011, 04:18 PM
Do you think race plays a role in intelligence? Just a question? I'm intrigued.

Not at all... It's all about the up bringing and lessons you learn in life, and all races have intelligent and non intelligent.....A person should never be judged until you understand the society they grew up in.


My roots are......Scottish, German, Welsh, French, Indian

Hellcrooner
08-01-2011, 04:19 PM
what your talking about could be summerized in one word. circumstance. cirmustance doesnt have an effect on intellect. you could be in jail and get an education.

i know ppl from the projects that went through school, finished school and now have good careers. I am one of those ppl.

plus what does any of this have to do with what the study is showing ? its commonly known that most players in the league dont finish school.

Yes but the study is focusing on academic grades and how far they went in it instead of IQ.


Ill use my Man gasol as Example.

In this stats they are using he probably is rated as " finished H.S" hence no University grade. Hence " not intelligent".

Well he was STUDYING MEDICINE to BE A SURGEON but he reached a point where the Amount of hours he needed to be training to play as a PRO for FC Barcelona didnt allow him enough time to succeed on the medicine subjects so he had to quit and focus on his basketball career ( altough he ha salways expresed interest in finishing medicine after he retires and then work as surgeon for players).

So is he Intelligent or he isnt because he couldnt end his medicine career?

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:22 PM
Yes but the study is focusing on academic grades and how far they went in it instead of IQ.


Ill use my Man gasol as Example.

In this stats they are using he probably is rated as " finished H.S" hence no University grade. Hence " not intelligent".

Well he was STUDYING MEDICINE to BE A SURGEON but he reached a point where the Amount of hours he needed to be training to play as a PRO for FC Barcelona didnt allow him enough time to succeed on the medicine subjects so he had to quit and focus on his basketball career ( altough he ha salways expresed interest in finishing medicine after he retires and then work as surgeon for players).

So is he Intelligent or he isnt because he couldnt end his medicine career?

They used SAT scores too which at one point was used by high-IQ societies as an IQ standard before they made it easier so you're misinterpreting the study.

Pau Gasol would not be part of this study.

RLundi
08-01-2011, 04:22 PM
They have found there to be a noticeable IQ gap between races however they haven't found a reason for it.

Also intelligence isn't an acquired trait. Above average IQ (>120) is biologically pre-determined, there are numerous studies to back this up.

Incorrect.

There are also numerous studies that disprove that intelligence is biologically determined. Although researchers agree that some intelligence is probably due to genetics (and even that assertion is largely unproven and controversial) the majority of it is acquired through learning experiences and mental challenges. And even if a portion of intelligence is indeed based on inheritance, it is contingent upon genetics and not solely on race or skin color.

Researchers can't even agree on a concrete definition of intelligence. I surely don't expect them to understand for a certainty how is it obtained.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:24 PM
Incorrect.

There are also numerous studies that disprove that intelligence is biologically determined. Although researchers agree that some intelligence is probably due to genetics (and even that assertion is largely unproven and controversial) the majority of it is acquired through learning experiences and mental challenges. And even if a portion of intelligence is indeed based on inheritance, it is contingent upon genetics and not solely on race or skin color.

Researchers can't even agree on a concrete definition of intelligence. I surely don't expect them to understand for a certainty how is it obtained.

Above average IQ is biologically predetermined. Average IQ, not so much.

There are recent studies that show that persons of above average IQ show similar characteristics when it comes to brain function/traits which leads them to believe that hormonal imbalances cause the brain structures to be the way they are.

Studies on neural wiring, hormonal imbalance, brain scans etc are proof of intelligence through genetic heredity. This is true of both extremes, retardation (exceptions) and above average IQ.

MagicHero3
08-01-2011, 04:28 PM
this explains lebron

RLundi
08-01-2011, 04:34 PM
Above average IQ is biologically predetermined. Average IQ, not so much.

Not only are there several different factors determining what we generally regard as 'intelligent,' but there are several different forms of intelligence. IQ is very general and isn't an accurate reflection of intelligence- it's just the only one that we have.

That being said, again, it is extremely controversial, heavily-criticized and disagreed upon.

Above-average intelligence is no less predetermined than below-average intelligence.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Not only are there several different factors determining what we generally regard as 'intelligent,' but there are several different forms of intelligence. IQ is very general and isn't an accurate reflection of intelligence- it's just the only one that we have.

That being said, again, it is extremely controversial, heavily-criticized and disagreed upon.

Above-average intelligence is no less predetermined than below-average intelligence.

The similarity of brain scans among persons of above average IQ seem to indicate otherwise. Environment isn't as much of a prevalent casual agent as you think it is, unless of course you take it to the extreme (malnutrition/physical trauma).

Intelligence may be subjective but IQ is a great way to test for intellectual intuition since intuition is what separates the gifted from the mediocre anyway.

Evolution23
08-01-2011, 04:38 PM
didnt derek rose cheat on his exams ? and then was caught after he was drafted by the bulls and it resulted in no diciplinary actions ? this is the nba telling kids "hey listen if your good enough you dont need education, we'll take you on and youll make lots of money"

out of wade, lebron and bosh who do you think is the only one to finish school ? thats right it was wade. you know the guy who out smarted the other two and convinced them to play 2nd and 3rd fidell to him. he is def the smartest one of the 3.

It doesn't mean Wade is smarter but Wade is more knowledgeable. Also it isn't too hard to convince a 25 year old who is in love with the lime light to leave a city like Cleveland for attention focused tabloid filled city like Miami.

Evolution23
08-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Not only are there several different factors determining what we generally regard as 'intelligent,' but there are several different forms of intelligence. IQ is very general and isn't an accurate reflection of intelligence- it's just the only one that we have.

That being said, again, it is extremely controversial, heavily-criticized and disagreed upon.

Above-average intelligence is no less predetermined than below-average intelligence.

That is very true. I've seen so many studies about IQ being our only measurable guide to intelligence and a lot of researchers are deducing that Intelligence Quotient is not a reliable method to determine intelligence.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 04:42 PM
Yes but the study is focusing on academic grades and how far they went in it instead of IQ.


Ill use my Man gasol as Example.

In this stats they are using he probably is rated as " finished H.S" hence no University grade. Hence " not intelligent".

Well he was STUDYING MEDICINE to BE A SURGEON but he reached a point where the Amount of hours he needed to be training to play as a PRO for FC Barcelona didnt allow him enough time to succeed on the medicine subjects so he had to quit and focus on his basketball career ( altough he ha salways expresed interest in finishing medicine after he retires and then work as surgeon for players).

So is he Intelligent or he isnt because he couldnt end his medicine career?


I understand what your saying. just because someone didnt finish school it doesnt mean that they have a low iq or are not intellegent ppl. i agree with you there.

Duddy
08-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Everything is relative: all those "unintelligent" basketball players are geniuses compared to the soccer players we have in Brazil

Tom Stone
08-01-2011, 04:46 PM
Not only are there several different factors determining what we generally regard as 'intelligent,' but there are several different forms of intelligence. IQ is very general and isn't an accurate reflection of intelligence- it's just the only one that we have.

That being said, again, it is extremely controversial, heavily-criticized and disagreed upon.

Above-average intelligence is no less predetermined than below-average intelligence.



Check mate :cool:

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 04:47 PM
It doesn't mean Wade is smarter but Wade is more knowledgeable. Also it isn't too hard to convince a 25 year old who is in love with the lime light to leave a city like Cleveland for attention focused tabloid filled city like Miami.

theres no way i can argue that wade is smarter just because he convinced the other two to play with him. that was a joke bro..

RLundi
08-01-2011, 04:48 PM
Similarity of brain scans among persons of above average IQ seem to indicate otherwise. Environment isn't as much of a prevalent casual agent as you think it is, unless of course you take it to the extreme (malnutrition/physical trauma).

Environment and sensory experiences play a huge role in nearly every single phase of life, and this certainly includes intelligence. For example, even though I don't like to use it as a barometer because it is almost solely based on testing, but psychometrics coincides with the interpretation of an of individual's results based on the setting. And those results confirm that the environment of an individual, the observed setting, are the more appropriate measures of intelligence rather than just settling on something as vague and unproven as genetics.

If someone were to base something as important as intelligence on inheritance, then what is to stop him from basing crime or violence or fits of anger or likeliness to commit rape, all on genetics? It is much more all-encompassing, not to mention less problematic, to base these things, including intelligence, on environmental factors.

heatbb
08-01-2011, 04:53 PM
Thing that counts more than any grade, exam or IQ is EQ-Emotional Quotient. IQ is important for a job that needs a lot of things that can be studied. You don't learn EQ, that's something that comes naturally. It doesn't matter if you know 'which shape doesn't belong'. Something like this is just for brain training. EQ actually makes it easier to talk to people and accept their opinions and knowledge.

Of all athletes around the world, I'd say soccer players are the ones that have least chance to get a proper job. Ofcourse, I follow very little of sports so my opinion is quite biased.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Environment and sensory experiences play a huge role in nearly every single phase of life, and this certainly includes intelligence. For example, even though I don't like to use it as a barometer because it is almost solely based on testing, but psychometrics coincides with the interpretation of an of individual's results based on the setting. And those results confirm that the environment of an individual, the observed setting, are the more appropriate measures of intelligence rather than just settling on something as vague and unproven as genetics.

If someone were to base something as important as intelligence on inheritance, then what is to stop him from basing crime or violence or fits of anger or likeliness to commit rape, all on genetics? It is much more all-encompassing, not to mention less problematic, to base these things, including intelligence, on environmental factors.

We've gone down this slippery slope and science has disproven such things.

As well psychometrics is flawed, it's solely based on qualitative testing and is often misused. It is pseudoscience at best.

Trace
08-01-2011, 04:59 PM
Thing that counts more than any grade, exam or IQ is EQ-Emotional Quotient. IQ is important for a job that needs a lot of things that can be studied. You don't learn EQ, that's something that comes naturally. It doesn't matter if you know 'which shape doesn't belong'. Something like this is just for brain training. EQ actually makes it easier to talk to people and accept their opinions and knowledge.

Of all athletes around the world, I'd say soccer players are the ones that have least chance to get a proper job. Ofcourse, I follow very little of sports so my opinion is quite biased.

EI measures conformity, which isn't really a form of intelligence and it has very little correlation with job performance.

Latent Inhibition is probably the most important one if you had to choose one trait.

Da Knicks
08-01-2011, 04:59 PM
I think the nba has some very smart players however, i have to agree that most of the players in the nba have come from tough places and therefore Mr. Piaget would put them at a disadvantage. I dont think genes have to do as much as the surrounding environment for the players who grew up in poor homes.

heatbb
08-01-2011, 05:00 PM
Why do you think the players representative in the labor talks is Derek Fisher. Beside the fact that he's smart, he knows how to talk and how to get what he wants. Manipulating is a negative skill, but an important one to succeed in life and achieve ones needs.

heatbb
08-01-2011, 05:02 PM
EI measures conformity, which isn't really a form of intelligence and it has very little correlation with job performance.

Latent Inhibition is probably the most important one if you had to choose on trait.

I don't mean correlation to performance, but getting the job, getting what you want.

tonyd3b54
08-01-2011, 05:04 PM
people are mistaking intelligence with potential intelligence. If you dont put in any work to get smarter then i dont give a **** how smart you could be, right now you're an idiot. And thats how i feel about most basketball players.

Trace
08-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Why do you think the players representative in the labor talks is Derek Fisher. Beside the fact that he's smart, he knows how to talk and how to get what he wants. Manipulating is a negative skill, but an important one to succeed in life and achieve ones needs.

Usually in most labor agreements, each side has a team of solicitors, lawyers and consultants advising them. Why do you think Gary Hall's unexpected death impacted the CBA talks? He's the NBPA lead counsel.

I doubt Derek Fisher has to do much, since he's planning on touring China with Kobe.

RLundi
08-01-2011, 05:09 PM
We've gone down this slippery slope and science has disproven such things.

As well psychometrics is flawed, it's solely based on qualitative testing and is often misused. It is pseudoscience at best.

Predisposition to being a rapist is just as slippery as predisposition to being intelligent. Every single test or theory or idea that professes to measure intelligence is flawed- my very point in supporting pyschometrics in opposition to your support of IQ was to demonstrate that.

The fact of the matter is that there are a myriad of ways to measure intelligence. None are absolute; none are widely-agreed upon, and until we have a palatable, concrete way of doing so, it will still be up to researchers to prove that intelligence is largely based on inheritance.

When they do that, please let me know.

heatbb
08-01-2011, 05:11 PM
Advising of course, but who would you count as the right one to talk for the players directly? Lebron-no. Dwight-never.

MagicHero3
08-01-2011, 05:14 PM
ironic that the highest paid athlete in the States (nba players) is also the dumbest lol

kingkenny01
08-01-2011, 05:15 PM
a few counter examples
-emeka okafor got a 3.8 in uconn's business school, he graduated with honors after three years
-Brandon Knight perfect four in high school and college
-Grant Hill was a 4.0 through high school and had a 3.8 after college
-Thad Young was in the National Honor Society coming out of high school and had a 4.0 GPA at GTech
-Bosh was a 4.0 student
- Landry Fields is also very smart he graduated Stanford in 3 years
-Danny Granger got an academic scholarship to Yale for an engineering major and really good college entrance test scores too

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 05:21 PM
ironic that the highest paid athlete in the States (nba players) is also the dumbest lol

arent baseball players the highest paid athletes in north america ?

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 05:22 PM
a few counter examples
-emeka okafor got a 3.8 in uconn's business school, he graduated with honors after three years
-Brandon Knight perfect four in high school and college
-Grant Hill was a 4.0 through high school and had a 3.8 after college
-Thad Young was in the National Honor Society coming out of high school and had a 4.0 GPA at GTech
-Bosh was a 4.0 student
- Landry Fields is also very smart he graduated Stanford in 3 years
-Danny Granger got an academic scholarship to Yale for an engineering major and really good college entrance test scores too

good examples .. im sure there are more.

Trace
08-01-2011, 05:33 PM
Predisposition to being a rapist is just as slippery as predisposition to being intelligent. Every single test or theory or idea that professes to measure intelligence is flawed- my very point in supporting pyschometrics in opposition to your support of IQ was to demonstrate that.

The fact of the matter is that there are a myriad of ways to measure intelligence. None are absolute; none are widely-agreed upon, and until we have a palatable, concrete way of doing so, it will still be up to researchers to prove that intelligence is largely based on inheritance.

When they do that, please let me know.

False.

IQ can be quantified whereas psychometrics are qualitative. IQ has steadily become a consistent fixture in intelligence research and while it has its share of criticisms it has shown to be consistent in academic potential predictions amongst other things.

Your slippery slope is laughable at best for numerous reasons.

Your criticisms of IQ for not being broad enough (lack of EI testing) is one of the reasons as to why your concerns are absurd. Let's just use your example of rape, an act that is multifactorial and considers anger, sadism and sexual gratification amongst it's main motivations. Such factors hold very little correlation with current testable methods of IQ but has a very high correlation with EI. As per your argument, you've stated that psychometrics, an EI standard, that considers the casual environment to be one of the many factors in psychological development. Therefore, your slippery slope cannot be affected by genetic causation and thus, predisposition of rape and predisposition of intelligence are two mutually exclusive entities.

In addition,
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/9/2163.short
is one of the many studies that have already shown IQ to be hereditary.

RLundi
08-01-2011, 06:02 PM
False.

IQ can be quantified whereas psychometrics are qualitative. IQ has steadily become a consistent fixture in intelligence research and while it has its share of criticisms it has shown to be consistent in academic potential predictions amongst other things.

Your slippery slope is laughable at best for numerous reasons.

Your criticisms of IQ for not being broad enough (lack of EI testing) is one of the reasons as to why your concerns are absurd. Let's just use your example of rape, an act that is multifactorial and considers anger, sadism and sexual gratification amongst it's main motivations. Such factors hold very little correlation with current testable methods of IQ but has a very high correlation with EI. As per your argument, you've stated that psychometrics, a EI standard that considers the casual environment to be one of the many factors in psychological development. Therefore it cannot possibly be caused by genes and thus, predisposition of rape and predisposition of intelligence are two mutually exclusive entities.

In addition,
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/9/2163.short
is one of the many studies that have already shown IQ to be hereditary.

There is so much wrong with this entire post, it's like a buffet- I just don't know where to begin. But I settled on the bolded part to expose your faulty thinking.

Clearly, you frequented Wikipedia for this because what is written in your post is almost verbatim for what is written on Wiki for causes of rape, and I quote "anger, a desire for power, sadism, sexual gratification and evolutionary pressures." Funny you quoted most of the other things but specifically left out evolutionary pressures, probably because it is devastating to your argument. If evolutionary pressures (read: that "rape is a genetically advantageous behavioral adaptation") could explain why some rape, then that will have thrown your entire 'slippery slope' comment right down the toilet. If you agree that intelligence is innate, then according to this, you also agree that being a rapist is innate. Which is it? Does it not make much more sense to attribute rape to environment and not predisposition? Then why do you make the exception for intelligence?

You claim that rape is "multifactorial;" what on earth makes you think that intelligence isn't equally as multifaceted?? The only absurdity I see is you thinking that intelligence is based on a single factor- genetics.

And thank you so much for attaching that link, it was very helpful :rolleyes: For every source you quote, I can do the exact same. What's the purpose- you wanna have a references-war?

gaughan333
08-01-2011, 06:05 PM
?

semitic race, it includes not only jews but many muslims too from the middle eastern.


Judaism is a religion of course, and there are white jews, black jews ( in ethiopia for example) and so on.

But MOST judaism practicants indeed belong to the semitic race.

Whats the problem wiht that?

I didn't say there is a problem. I said it is funny how being jewish is looked upon as a race. You're getting all worked up over nothing

ellisgw
08-01-2011, 06:25 PM
lol at racist white people


white people doing what they are good which is being racist.

Ezekial
08-01-2011, 06:39 PM
again.

people its mistaking education and intelligence.

they have nothing to do with each other.

and btw playing the racial card here is stupid precisely because of that.

Black/ or asina or hispanic or jew or whatever) people is NOT less intelligent than White people , they have MORE obstacles to get a good education , many nba players have grown in getto enviroment, so they never had the chance to prove if they are intelligent or not.

I don't need education or intelligence to see that you have neither education nor intelligence.... I mean really, grammar and usage are an educational thing, but people with some intelligence at least are able to string a coherent thought together.

And I'm not trying to be racist at all but the fact that white people have a better means to supply their children with an education is the reason people say the whites are smarter than blacks. I mean middle to upper class white people will tote a book to try to make money, while a black child growing up in the projects can make a lot more money toting a gun and dropping out of school to bang.

Saying that blacks and whites have an equal opportunity to education is a bold-faced lie due to the financial situations(class) the the majority of either race is in. No racism intended, all truth.

Ezekial
08-01-2011, 06:45 PM
lol at racist white people


white people doing what they are good which is being racist.

Hey look, a non-white person being racist without realizing that not only white people can be racist.

The truth is that most people of a race feel more comfortable with those of their own race. Most not all.

The fact is racism against white people is probably the most prevalent racism in the US. Just because we were never repressed or racism against us never really deterred our progress, it doesn't matter.
But only white people can be racist so I'm wrong, my bad.

Sevilla91
08-01-2011, 06:52 PM
If you watch kenyon martin speak you will agree

Trace
08-01-2011, 07:09 PM
There is so much wrong with this entire post, it's like a buffet- I just don't know where to begin. But I settled on the bolded part to expose your faulty thinking.

Clearly, you frequented Wikipedia for this because what is written in your post is almost verbatim for what is written on Wiki for causes of rape, and I quote "anger, a desire for power, sadism, sexual gratification and evolutionary pressures." Funny you quoted most of the other things but specifically left out evolutionary pressures, probably because it is devastating to your argument. If evolutionary pressures (read: that "rape is a genetically advantageous behavioral adaptation") could explain why some rape, then that will have thrown your entire 'slippery slope' comment right down the toilet. If you agree that intelligence is innate, then according to this, you also agree that being a rapist is innate. Which is it? Does it not make much more sense to attribute rape to environment and not predisposition? Then why do you make the exception for intelligence?

You claim that rape is "multifactorial;" what on earth makes you think that intelligence isn't equally as multifaceted?? The only absurdity I see is you thinking that intelligence is based on a single factor- genetics.

And thank you so much for attaching that link, it was very helpful :rolleyes: For every source you quote, I can do the exact same. What's the purpose- you wanna have a references-war?

I actually didn't but thanks for revealing that you use Wikipedia as your main source of information. Quite ironic in a sense.

Evolutionary pressures? LOL? Do you even know what that means or what audience it is directed to? By using such factors, you do realize you're pigeonholing rape as naturalistic? But to entertain this notion, rape was not part of our behavioral modernity and may have been phased out through selective pressures. It is no longer selection favorable, thus per evolution, rape is hardly a concern when heredity is concerned whereas intelligence is selection favorable. If you've actually read Dr.Palmer's book, you'll realize you're misinterpreting his usage of evolution in rape (there's also very little proof of rape being an adaptive mechanism and is generally looked down upon by evolutionary biologists). Such is the folly of wikipedia, I guess.

To further this, you straw man me by saying that I agree with the idea of innate rape which I do not agree with, instead it shows an explicit ignorance of evolutionary biology. If (for argument's sake) the tendency to sexually assault someone was indeed innate, it has to have a trigger as this is a motivation not a direct causation. That trigger or stimuli is hostility, a factor that is dependant on EI. Whereas "thinking" does not require such triggers.

Intelligence is multifaceted but such factors are relative which is why I and the academic community considers IQ testing to be rather consistent in comparison to other methods of intelligence research. I do not consider EI, SI or physical superiority to be "intelligent" (i.e Charisma/Sports) and that pretty much leaves out savants as the exceptions to IQ testing. While, IQ testing may have a wide margin of error between percentiles, it does however give the most complete answers when it comes to intelligence research. I have yet to see a person of whom I deem intelligent be misinterpreted by an IQ test. Anecdotal evidence aside, what is YOUR definition of intelligence before this argument becomes too circular. The Bayesian brain is rather close to my definition. Yours is probably closer to that of Gardner's and that is where the divide becomes apparent. I would not be surprised if you supplied behaviorist or psych studies to prove your point. I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree unless of course, hierarchical spatio temporal organisation is of interest to you.

The link was very helpful but I guess it's a force of habit, not everyone is a neurology resident. This article might shed more light on the previous one.
http://www.loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/PDF/nrn0604-GrayThompson.pdf

This one found 85% of our brain structure to be heritable (Please note I do not consider intelligence to be 100% innate. I consider future modelling to be a main determinate of intelligence as well.).

Please provide references, I'll love to see what you can dig up. :D

Kashmir13579
08-01-2011, 07:32 PM
But when it comes to basketball are they geniuses?

Some of them are just physically gifted.

FriedTofuz
08-01-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm not surprised, most basketball players are black.

Im surprised this post hasnt been deleted. What does being black have to do with ones intelligence? Nothing. This study is completly inaccurate, as grades arent an accurate measure of ones intellect. Rather, it is a measure of how much effort and hard work, along with intelligence to achieve a high result. Therefore, The study should be based on IQ tests or Gifted Tests. This method isnt accurate and its only going to create racism. There are intelligent individuals of all races.

Trace
08-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Im surprised this post hasnt been deleted. What does being black have to do with ones intelligence? Nothing. This study is completly inaccurate, as grades arent an accurate measure of ones intellect. Rather, it is a measure of how much effort and hard work, along with intelligence to achieve a high result. Therefore, The study should be based on IQ tests or Gifted Tests. This method isnt accurate and its only going to create racism. There are intelligent individuals of all races.

They used SAT scores but then again I've yet to see any references they've used that have not emphasized poor testing of African-Americans . :shrug:

I would,however,like to see hours spent practicing vs GPA/SAT scores. I'm sure the results would be obvious and may indicate a much more different conclusion than the one this article suggests. They're more likely to be distracted than dumb, in my opinion.

championships
08-01-2011, 07:57 PM
I don't know about that. It's the NFL players that you hear getting arrested all the time.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 07:58 PM
i dont think that race has any thing to do with it. any one could have a bad circumstance in theyre lives. some ppl over come it and some ppl make poor decisions that result to an even worst circumstance.

it doesnt really matter where your from. poverty is somthing that is experienced by every race. you have white ppl in the projects too. just because you see more black ppl in the ghetto it doesnt mean that there are more poor black ppl. maybe you just havent walked by a trailor park latley :confused:

i grew up in the hood. alot of kids make excuses. they want instant gradification by selling dime bags and having some nice kicks and nice jeans but they dont put in the work at school for a long term goal that will pay off alot more in the long run.

i was one of these kids. our society through media doesnt exactly promote education. instead what you see in music videos is hot chicks and sportscars so the average kid in the hood thinks he has to be a baller or a drug dealer when in reality there are plenty of poor kids from the projects that made it out through education. they just wanted it,and devoted themselves.

i know single mothers who work, take care of theyre kids and still manage to get themselves through school. if these women can do all of that it just shows how strong a person can be if they really want somthing. there are no excuses.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 08:01 PM
I'm not surprised, most basketball players are black.

:pity:

Trace
08-01-2011, 08:03 PM
i dont think that race has any thing to do with it. any one could have a bad circumstance in theyre lives. some ppl over come it and some ppl make poor decisions that result to an even worst circumstance.

it doesnt really matter where your from. poverty is somthing that is experienced by every race. you have white ppl in the projects too. just because you see more black ppl in the ghetto it doesnt mean that there are more poor black ppl. maybe you just havent walked by a trailor park latley :confused:

i grew up in the hood. alot of kids make excuses. they want instant gradification by selling dime bags and having some nice kicks and nice jeans but they dont put in the work at school for a long term goal that will pay off alot more in the long run.

i was one of these kids. our society through media doesnt exactly promote education. instead what you see in music videos is hot chicks and sportscars so the average kid in the hood thinks he has to be a baller or a drug dealer when in reality there are plenty of poor kids from the projects that made it out through education. they just wanted it,and devoted themselves.

i know single mothers who work, take care of theyre kids and still manage to get themselves through school. if these women can do all of that it just shows how strong a person can be if they really want somthing. there are no excuses.

Athletes for the most part are dedicated and focused on different areas rather than just academics. If there were actually strict academic standards and a divided focus between sports and academics in "sports schools", I'm sure these athletes could bring up their scores to the national average.

Duke,Brown, Stanford and Princeton for the most part, are a testament to this fact.

smith&wesson
08-01-2011, 08:21 PM
Athletes for the most part are dedicated and focused on different areas rather than just academics. If there were actually strict academic standards and a divided focus between sports and academics in "sports schools", I'm sure these athletes could bring up their scores to the national average.

Duke,Brown, Stanford and Princeton for the most part, are a testament to this fact.

exactly my point earlier in this thread. d rose cheated on his exams and by the time it came to surface and every one found out the Bulls basically said soo ?? and nothing was done about it.

if education was held higher as a priority to achieving the goal of reaching the nba these kids would comply and do what is necessary to make it.

when all you gotta do is get accepted to college and stick it out for one year then what do we really expect from these guys ? in theyre minds they already made it in life. why do they need to further educate themselves ? theyre next goal is to land a big contract or win a championship. most player dont think to continue with education.

GoPacers33
08-01-2011, 08:23 PM
No surprise

THE GIPPER
08-01-2011, 08:50 PM
Basically they're saying that basketball players are the least educated therefore they are the dumbest.

JWO35
08-01-2011, 09:03 PM
The NBA should make Rookies take the Wonderlic Test(like the NFL) to separate the dumasses from the smartasses...

fadedmario
08-01-2011, 09:10 PM
How is anyone surprised by this?

RevisIsland
08-01-2011, 09:21 PM
Of course they're the stupidest none of them graduated from college.

sventhedog
08-01-2011, 10:48 PM
when i see lebron, tmac. i'm not surprised.

RLundi
08-02-2011, 12:34 AM
I actually didn't but thanks for revealing that you use Wikipedia as your main source of information. Quite ironic in a sense.

Evolutionary pressures? LOL? Do you even know what that means or what audience it is directed to? By using such factors, you do realize you're pigeonholing rape as naturalistic? But to entertain this notion, rape was not part of our behavioral modernity and may have been phased out through selective pressures. It is no longer selection favorable, thus per evolution, rape is hardly a concern when heredity is concerned whereas intelligence is selection favorable. If you've actually read Dr.Palmer's book, you'll realize you're misinterpreting his usage of evolution in rape (there's also very little proof of rape being an adaptive mechanism and is generally looked down upon by evolutionary biologists). Such is the folly of wikipedia, I guess.

To further this, you straw man me by saying that I agree with the idea of innate rape which I do not agree with, instead it shows an explicit ignorance of evolutionary biology. If (for argument's sake) the tendency to sexually assault someone was indeed innate, it has to have a trigger as this is a motivation not a direct causation. That trigger or stimuli is hostility, a factor that is dependant on EI. Whereas "thinking" does not require such triggers.

Intelligence is multifaceted but such factors are relative which is why I and the academic community considers IQ testing to be rather consistent in comparison to other methods of intelligence research. I do not consider EI, SI or physical superiority to be "intelligent" (i.e Charisma/Sports) and that pretty much leaves out savants as the exceptions to IQ testing. While, IQ testing may have a wide margin of error between percentiles, it does however give the most complete answers when it comes to intelligence research. I have yet to see a person of whom I deem intelligent be misinterpreted by an IQ test. Anecdotal evidence aside, what is YOUR definition of intelligence before this argument becomes too circular. The Bayesian brain is rather close to my definition. Yours is probably closer to that of Gardner's and that is where the divide becomes apparent. I would not be surprised if you supplied behaviorist or psych studies to prove your point. I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree unless of course, hierarchical spatio temporal organisation is of interest to you.

The link was very helpful but I guess it's a force of habit, not everyone is a neurology resident. This article might shed more light on the previous one.
http://www.loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/PDF/nrn0604-GrayThompson.pdf

This one found 85% of our brain structure to be heritable (Please note I do not consider intelligence to be 100% innate. I consider future modelling to be a main determinate of intelligence as well.).

Please provide references, I'll love to see what you can dig up. :D

I think you've completely missed my point.

Lol, this has absolutely nothing to do with rape in itself- I assume you're astute enough to realize that. This is squarely about predisposition. For 'argument's sake,' your assertion is that if sexual assault is indeed innate (which for the record, I don't believe that it is and I hope you've gleaned this) then there would have to be a trigger, whereas thinking needs no trigger. But that's where you're incorrect. Cognition certainly has triggers. Learning, calculating, problem-solving, fixing, identifying, predicting, critical thinking- the list goes on and on; these things and many more have to be activated to provide the foundation for intelligence. To argue otherwise is unbelievably asinine. How can you definitively contend that all these factors are primarily based on genetics?? I refuse to believe that.

I acquiesced and stated a few posts ago that I do agree with the researchers who make the claim that inheritance is probably partially responsible for intelligence; to believe that genetics play absolutely no role would be ignorant. But to suggest that intelligence is squarely contingent on heredity is just as foolish.

lilojmayo
08-02-2011, 08:03 PM
Don't need IQ to play ball. Basketball is all about athletic ability and how well you can apply muscle memory= basketball talent.

GhostfaceDrilla
08-02-2011, 08:07 PM
Agree. If J.R Smith attended Harvard, it would not be the #1 or #2 school in the nation. They would be like last. His IQ alone would demolish that school's overall intelligence level lol.

GhostfaceDrilla
08-02-2011, 08:08 PM
Don't need IQ to play ball. Basketball is all about athletic ability and how well you can apply muscle memory= basketball talent.

Tell that to John Stockton and Steve Nash.

Hawkeye15
08-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Grades hold very little correlation with intelligence. This is a common misconception.

I can agree to an extent. But highly intelligent people tend to get thru high school very easily and get good grades. But hey, most in sports aren't the guys who were offered academic scholarships, etc. So yes, measuring intelligence on limited factors is a fail.

That being said, its no surprise at all that NBA players have the least education of all athletes. And furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if they IQ tested every athlete and the NBA came out on the bottom.

But this study does nothing but show that NBA players simply don't stay in school long. Its an acceptable and expected process in being drafted now

Duncan = Donkey
08-03-2011, 03:30 AM
Not a suprise, majority of them are black ghetto.