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View Full Version : NBA Mock Off-Season FINALS: #1) New Jersey Nets vs. #2) Oklahoma City Thunder



KnicksorBust
07-30-2011, 09:16 PM
Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the NBA Mock Off-season Playoff voting. Every summer, between 50-65 PSD users participate in a game where each GM takes on the challenge of running the off-season for an NBA team. Those GM's are free to make trades, signings, pick up team option on players, conduct the draft etc as ways to help better improve their team. What we have here is the results of those GM's hard-work as we have now reached the playoffs.

Keep in mind when voting that teams have changed dramatically through the mock and many teams are operating with completely new starting line ups. So please take the time to look at the teams closely (depth chart and write up) before voting. Try to avoid being a homer and vote simply on who is the better team in the match up.

#1) New Jersey Nets vs. #2) Oklahoma City Thunder

Nets have homecourt advantage!


Nets Depth Chart:
C- Marcus Camby / DeSagna Diop / Brad Miller
PF- Dirk Nowitzki / Brad Miller / Jared jeffries
SF- Andrei Kirilenko / Ryan Gomes / Rasual Butler
SG- Dwyane Wade / Willie Green / Rasual Butler
PG: Jarrett Jack / Jerryd Bayless / Ronnie Price



Thunder Depth Chart:
C-Al Horford/Spencer Hawes/Dan Gadzuric
F-Udonis Haslem/Carl Landry/Ersan Ilyasova
F-Kevin Durant/Linas Kleiza
G-Manu Ginobili/Vince Carter
G-Devin Harris/Shannon Brown/A.J. Price


Thunder Writeup:


2 Oklahoma City Thunder vs. 1 New Jersey Nets

Congratulations to jimbob and Josh for advancing to the Finals. They’re two of the best GMs around, they did a great job with the Nets, and we wish them the best of luck in this series and in the NBA ReDraft.

The strongpoint of the Nets team is obviously the potency of their Dwyane Wade – Dirk Nowitzki tandem, and their stout perimeter defense. Our lineup actually matches up with theirs as well as any team we have faced in the previous rounds of the playoffs.

Our strongest advantage of the series comes in the frontcourt, where Al Horford will be more than a handful for Marcus Camby. Camby is still a strong weakside defender and an even better rebounder, but the Nets will only be able to rely on him for 25-30 minutes a night. In fact, Camby has only logged 29 and 28 minutes per game in his last two postseason appearances with the Blazers. That leaves either DeSagana Diop or Brad Miller to anchor the post on both ends for 18-23 minutes a game. Both are decent NBA players but with Al Horford in the middle for 35-40 minutes a game in the Finals, this match-up is clearly to our advantage.

It’s barely worth recognizing how completely worthless Camby was last season offensively (40 eFG%, 43 TS%) since he will only be on the floor for 30 minutes a night or less. But defensively his general impact on the game is vastly overstated, especially against a player of Horford’s caliber. More than half of Camby’s time on the court defensively last year was spent defending spot-up shots and isolation plays. Versus Camby, spot-up shooters contributed 1.07 points per possession on 49% shooting, while iso players shot 52% from the field while producing 1.01 points per possession. Camby ranked well into the bottom half of the league in both categories, which is dismal for a player whose major contributions are supposed to come at the defensive end of the floor.

As emphasized in previous write-ups, Horford was a highly efficient offensive player last season (Iso – 0.97 PPP, 52%; Post up – 0.86 PPP, 44%; PnR screener – 1.09 PPP, 55%). Magnify this by the fact that Horford is young and durable enough to log very heavy minutes. He's also savvy enough to make an impact defensively while staying out of foul trouble (less than three fouls per game in 35 minutes three years in a row). With Camby and Diop occupied by Horford's range, mobility, and versatility, the Nets will have no one to compensate for Dirk's inability to protect the rim from the post. Even if this match-up looks relatively close on paper, Horford vs. all of New Jersey's centers borders on a nightmare for the Nets.

At power forward, Nowitzki is matched up with a player he is quite familiar with by now. Udonis Haslem has defended Dirk with respectable success in the past. In the 2011 NBA Finals, Dirk averaged an impressive 26 points per game but on just 42% shooting. Haslem guarded him more than any other Heat player in the series. It would silly to anticipate Haslem magically forcing Dirk into a series of awful performances but given their history, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that Haslem can slow Dirk down. He should be able to hold Dirk below his postseason averages for two or three games in the series.

On the perimeter, Manu Ginobili is once again up against an elite shooting guard in Dwyane Wade. In two meetings with Wade last season, Manu averaged 16 points on 46% shooting with a 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio. Wade averaged 24 points on 46% shooting with a negative 1:2 assist-to-turnover ratio. Their career head-to-head numbers:

Manu – 18 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 TOs, 51% shooting, 30 MPG
Wade – 25 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists, 5 TOs, 44% shooting, 38 MPG

This match-up is hardly in our favor, but it’s also not a merry skip through the park for the Nets. At small forward, the Nets have a strong perimeter defender in Andrei Kirilenko. Reliable as he may be defensively, Kevin Durant had little trouble producing against him this season. In three meetings against Kirilenko in 2010-2011, Durant averaged 29 points on 44% shooting (50% from beyond the arc) to AK’s 11 points on 42% shooting.

At point guard, Devin Harris and Jarrett Jack will both benefit from playing with multiple stars. Physically, Harris’s impact will trump Jack’s. Harris has Manu and Horford to feed his cuts to the basket, and Durant and Manu to space the floor for his penetration with their outside shooting. Jack may be the steadier threat from outside, but Harris’s efficiency and overall impact on this series as a 4th option will easily exceed Jack’s.

To summarize:

Offensively, Manu and Vince Carter help neutralize the production of New Jersey’s primary source of points in Wade. Defensively, Haslem and Horford can slow down Dirk Nowitzki. Andrei Kirilenko and Jarrett Jack won’t sniff the production of Kevin Durant and Devin Harris.

Our favorable match-ups at key positions, vastly superior depth, and stronger frontcourt defense give us the edge. Homecourt advantage won’t be enough for the Nets. Thunder in 6 games.




Nets Writeup

Congratulations to Catty and RR for making it to the Mock finals. Now onto the matchup and why we feel we are the better team and will win the series. Instead of doing the typical “player A>>>player B” argument, we are going to post how these players have fared against each other in real life. We already know who is better then who, but that isn’t everything necessarily everything. Basketball is a team sport and not an individual sport.

Point Guards: Jarret Jack/Jerryd Bayless vs Devin Harris/Shannon Brown- First off let me say that I’m tired of people seeing Jack and thinking he would be the reason we lose. If teams can win the championship like the Heat in ’06 with Jason Williams starting, and Derek Fisher of the ‘09/’10 championship Lakers teams, then why can’t Jack? He is better now currently then both respective players were at the time of their championships. Anyway once again, like every other team the Nets have faced, their opponent has the better starting point guard. I really won’t try to argue it. However coming fresh of a victory against the Bulls with reigning MVP Derrick Rose , we feel the PG matchup here won’t be as tough. In fact even though Harris is a pretty solid player, he is arguable the worst PG we have had to face all playoffs. So technically even though they have the advantage player wise, it’s still a little bit of a win for us because the advantage shouldn’t be as big. Now on to how these players have fared against each other head to head. Harris again with the advantage here with 14.4 PPG and 5.8 APG on 48% shooting in 31 minutes per game compared to Jack’s 8.7 PPG and 4.4 APG on 40% in 25 minutes per game. Lets take a closer look at how these two guys matched up over the last two years where both players played at least 25 minutes, since that’s the minimum these players are going to be playing against each other, to get a more accurate view of how things may play out. In the last two years they had 5 total games where both played the 25 minutes, Jack actually averaged 13.6 PPG/7.4 APG on 62% shooting! Harris on the other hand averages 13.2 PPG/7.2 APG on 42% shooting. Again just like last matchup against Rose…even though Harris is the better player, Jack seems to match up pretty well, and play even better when he actually get’s the minutes. As for the bench its Jerryd Bayless vs Shannon Brown. Both role players won’t see as much time, and probably a wash. Bayless is the better scorer while Brown is the better defender. Would be fun to see these explosive athletes go at each other though.

Shooting Guard: Dwyane Wade/Willie Green vs Manu Ginobili/Vince Carter- What a fun matchup this would be to watch. Both champions, both fun exciting players to watch. Aside from the entertainment, it’s clear we have the better player here in Wade, just like we have had the best shooting guard in all the matchups. Yes Manu is a pretty good defender even at the age of 33, but there is no way he will be able to handle Wade. Head to head Wade wins the matchup 24.7 PPG/4.5 RPG/5.7 APG on 44% shooting in 38 minutes per game, compared to Manu with averages of 17.8 PPG/4.5 RPG/3.7 APG on 51% shooting in 30 minutes per game. No denying that Manu is a stud and an all-star, but not better then Wade. However we must not forget that for virtually all of his career, Dwyane Wade was guarded by arguable the best perimeter defender at the time in Bruce Bowen, while Dwyane had no one like that to guard Manu, and had to do it himself. Lets go back 3 years to 08-09 where Bowen barely played for the Spurs, and then retired after that to see how Manu fared against Wade himself. In those 3 years Wade averaged 23.8 PPG on 42% shooting, with Manu at 16.6 PPG on 45% shooting. While Manu actually does a solid job on Wade, Wade also does a pretty solid job on Manu as well. In fact Manu’s averages are down more then Wade’s are. Wade gets the better of Manu here regardless and should have the advantage over him as the series goes on. For the bench its Willie Green vs Vince Carter. What a luxury to have Vince on the bench. Oh wait…he’s not the Vince of old. Vince barely managed to put up subpar numbers playing with the Suns and Steve Nash in that system. I don’t think its that big, but regardless I’ll give the Thunder the advantage on the bench here since VC is the better overall player between the two.

Small Forward: Andrei Kirilenko/Ryan Gomes vs Kevin Durant/Linas Kleiza- Uh oh Kirlenko better watch out, he has to go against the two time back to back scoring champ in Kevin Durant. No question that KD is the better player. Border line top 5 player. However we actually feel very comfortable with AK-47 guarding him. Will AK stop him? No probably not, KD is the scoring champ for a reason. We do feel that AK could at least limit him or slow him down a little, make life tougher. AK at 6’9 and his extremely long arms is exactly the kind of guy that may give KD fits. In fact head to head KD only averages 23.6 PPG on 45% shooting against AK-47. Yes, I said “only” 23.6 PPG. While that is a lot, that is something we would definitely love Durant to average against us seeing as Durant is capable of scoring 40 + any given night. AK still manages to put up a decent 10.8 PPG on 43% shooting. Again if AK-47 can manage to play and defend like that, we will take it as a small win for us, even though they clearly have the advantage. Gomes vs Kleiza on the bench. Neither player here will be playing more then 15 minutes. I can’t imagine either player going off against each other, or destroying one another. When they have matched up though Gomes has been the slightly better scorer, rebounder and passer. The very small advantage we may have on the bench really won’t make a difference at the small forward spot.

Power Forward: Dirk Nowtizki/Jared Jeffries vs Carlos Udonis Haslem/Carly Landry- Another advantage for the Nets here. Would you look at that, it’s Dirty Dirk matched up against one of the guys he torched in the finals in Udonis Haslem. While Haslem has given Dirk some trouble in the past..there was nothing he or the Heat or anyone in the rest of the NBA could do about it this year. In the finals Dirk averaged 26 PPG on 42% shooting against the pretty good defensive duo of Bosh and Haslem. The 42% isn’t anything special, but you have to give credit where credit is due. The big difference is that instead of Bosh to throw at Dirk…they replace him with Landry. We feel that Dirk’s scoring will only go up, and be more efficient as well. Throw in the fact Haslem isn’t a big scoring threat as he only averaged 6.6 PPG in the finals. Once again, out of all the matchups, we feel we have the biggest mismatch/advantage here. They may even throw Horford out there on him, but that just takes away the only shot blocking they have and would make life easier for Wade. For the bench they have Carl Landry matched up against Jared Jeffries. I won’t lie, Jeffries will be lucky to see 10 minutes a game in this series. Carl Landry is the much better player here. It’s a shame though that their biggest bench player will be playing against Dirk most of the time. I plan on playing Dirk at least 40 minutes a game. The advantage they would have now turns into a disadvantage since Im assuming Landry will be playing a lot of minutes. No matter who the Thunder will be rotating in, they will be at a disadvantage against Dirk.

Center: Marcus Camby/Brad Miller/DeSagana Diop vs Al Horford/Spencer Hawes- Once again Camby will be matched up against a pretty good “center” in Al Horford. Horford is younger and more athletic than Camby. Has a better offensive game too. We feel Camby is the better defender though, and he definitely is the better rebounder. Like last matchup against the Bulls, Camby actually matches up against Horford pretty nicely. In the 5 total games they have played against each other Camby averages 7.8 PPG/13.2 RPB/4.4 APG/1.4 BPG on 51% shooting. Horford averages 11.2 PPG/7.6 RPG/1.8 APG/.8 BPG on 50% shooting. Interesting that once again Camby may not be the better player at this stage in his career, he is still the better rebounder and shot blocker and matches up great with Horford, and actually does a decent job on Horford defensively only allowing him to average 11 PPG. Any kind of offense we get out of Camby is a bonus here since that’s not what were looking for from him. Basically the bench is Spencer Hawes vs Brad Miller. Once again this is probably a wash, and probably won’t really have a big effect on the series, just like the rest of the bench.

On offense: Again we will have the pick and roll/pop as our main offensive weapon, with times where we want Dirk/Wade isolating. Between our five starters we have a usage % of 112.3. However on this team, the ball will be pretty much in the hands of Dirk and Wade. If Jack/Kirilenko/Camby aren’t regularly getting the ball it won’t hurt them too much since neither of those 3 are great scorers or #1/#2 options, or look to score first. All we ask from Jack/AK-47/Camby is to be ready to knock down the open shot or get ready for a layup off a cut.
Defense: We are going to play everybody straight up, no double teaming. With the way these guys have played head to head, we think that defensively we can hang with them, and play them tough. Can’t forget that we also have 3 of the best weak side defenders for their positions in Camby/AK-47/Wade that their slashers have to worry about. Based on the stats and head to head matchups, they only have one true advantage on offense and that is Kevin Durant, and even he doesn’t do as good as usual against Kirilenko. Also the 5 of their starters have a usage rate of 115.7%. The big difference between them and our team is that they have 4 guys who are used to being either the #1 or #2 options on their team. We feel that hurts their team more than our team if one of their main guys isn’t touching the ball. There are only so many shots to go around.
Summary: This Thunder team is a very nice team, and complement each other very well. Just like some of the other teams who may have had better individual players/starters then our team, we feel that our team has the best complement of players to be successful. That and we match up against this Thunder team very nicely. We also have more size on them and better rebounders to control the glass. Harris/Horford may be better then Jack/Camby, but does it really matter if head to head they get outplayed? Numbers don’t lie, and once again the “inferior” player seems to match up great. Isn’t that what basketball is all about, match ups? If basketball was measured by individual success there would have been a lot more different teams that would have won it all, but it’s not. It’s a team effort, and we feel that we have the better overall team.

Mr. Baller
07-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Congrats to both teams, but I have to give it to the Nets in a very close series. Good job Jimbob, Josh, and Cat

Chacarron
07-30-2011, 09:29 PM
My vote goes to the Thunder.

SteBO
07-30-2011, 09:30 PM
Gotta go NJ in 6 or 7 games here. Wade and Dirk would be too much to overcome

MiamiWadeCounty
07-30-2011, 09:42 PM
Got to go Thunder. Like I said on the first day of the mock, they were the easiest team to start off with and would easily make the Finals. CF has made some good moves and I think there bench puts it over the top for me.

Iodine
07-30-2011, 09:50 PM
Nyets just go to hard in the paint

RevisIsland
07-30-2011, 09:54 PM
I think Dirk's stock is a bit too high right now, the Thunder is a far more complete team, I'll take them.

Iodine
07-30-2011, 10:05 PM
Yeah, a top 5 player who raped the playoffs against good defenders for the most part totally has a overrated stock

Jdawg
07-30-2011, 10:11 PM
I am of the opinion that the real life Thunder team is actually better than this team. Not a big fan of the tiny front court that Haslem/Horford/Landry create. And Harris hasn't been a good player in several years. Dirk and Wade would be too much in this one.

Catfish1314
07-30-2011, 10:13 PM
I am of the opinion that the real life Thunder team is actually better than this team. Not a big fan of the tiny front court that Haslem/Horford/Landry create. And Harris hasn't been a good player in several years. Dirk and Wade would be too much in this one.

Perkins and Ibaka isn't a big frontcourt either so if that's your only logic, that makes no sense.

Sadds The Gr8
07-30-2011, 10:21 PM
Nets in 6. I think Durant and Ginobili can be somewhat contained, but i don't see anyone on the Thunder stopping Wade or Dirk. I think both would dominate this series. Congrats to all GM's they've done great jobs and they're all cool guys

MTar786
07-30-2011, 10:59 PM
i went nets because of the mere fact tat they have the BESY TWO finals players in the NBA today

add that with Homecourt advantage and i take new jersey with a difficult first 6 games and then a blowout game 7 win

i say it goes 7 because the thunder have a better bench.
match-ups come into play here too.
ak is a great choice to guard kd.
haslem is a great choice to guard dirk
manu is great to guard wade.
camby on horford

but no matter who you put on wade or dirk.. you're not touching them in the finals. Even if one has an off game.. youd have to be extremely lucky for both to.

the thunder has a choke artist in vince carter and their best player has 0 NBA finals experience. The only clear advantages for the thunder are devin harris, their unarguably better bench and the fact that it would be too dangerous double teaming ANY of their players because every one of those guys are more than capable of hitting an open shot.

with wade having to spend lots of energy guarding manu id like to add dirk wining the finals MVP award :)

CHANGO
07-30-2011, 11:57 PM
Nets in 6. Two finals MVP and STRONGS scoring options plus good team D. That's all...

Jdawg
07-31-2011, 12:54 AM
Perkins and Ibaka isn't a big frontcourt either so if that's your only logic, that makes no sense.


I wasn't saying that the only reason I think the real Thunder is better is because of the size of the front court. But I wouldn't call Ibaka and Perkins "small" either (6' 10" 235, 6' 10" 280).

Haslem is an undersized PF. Horford is an undersized C. I think that creates a weakness. Wade would be able to drive all day to the cup.

KnicksorBust
07-31-2011, 01:12 AM
Go get em JDawg.

Catfish1314
07-31-2011, 01:14 AM
I wasn't saying that the only reason I think the real Thunder is better is because of the size of the front court. But I wouldn't call Ibaka and Perkins "small" either (6' 10" 235, 6' 10" 280).

Haslem is an undersized PF. Horford is an undersized C. I think that creates a weakness. Wade would be able to drive all day to the cup.

Perkins was basically garbage in Oklahoma City. Regardless of how "big" he is, size doesn't help much when he sucks. I'm a Serge Ibaka fan, but so far he hasn't been good for much other than prodiving a dynamic threat in transition and weakside shot-blocking. Al Horford alone is several times better than both of them put together, at least right now. And honestly, I'd rather have Horford protecting the rim for 34-38 minutes a game than Ibaka for 25-30 minutes a game. As much as I like Serge, he's horribly foul prone.

Anyway, looks like the Nets are bound to pull away with this as I expected. No problem bowing out to you guys. Well deserved and long overdue for both of you :clap:

SNYmets86
07-31-2011, 01:18 AM
the better defensive team wins , NETS

ABOMB_56
07-31-2011, 02:10 AM
I like the Thunder here. A gut feeling. Haslem showed that he can hinder Dirk somewhat, and I don't think Kirilenko will do a great job of defending Durant. Ginoboli can somewhat cancel out Wade and I like Harris more than I like Jack at the point position.

Joshtd1
07-31-2011, 04:09 AM
Anyway, looks like the Nets are bound to pull away with this as I expected. No problem bowing out to you guys. Well deserved and long overdue for both of you :clap:

Were only up 4 right now, definitely haven't pulled away from anything. If we lose I would have no problem losing to you. Who better then my future re-draft co :love:

Edit: Only up 3 now after the 100 post rule

nygiants242
07-31-2011, 04:24 AM
Nets for me. Great job guys building these teams!

RevisIsland
07-31-2011, 04:35 AM
Damn it's close, I hope the Thunder pull it out because I think there about 1.5% better, but the Nets would be worthy champions in any case, and making the Nets champs is a much harder task than the Thunder, their GM deserves a ton of praise for doing that.

KnicksorBust
07-31-2011, 07:00 AM
In such a close series, game 7 Nets at home with the two best game closers in world vs. an inexperienced Durant. I'm going Nets.

jimbobjarree
07-31-2011, 10:25 AM
Damn it's close, I hope the Thunder pull it out because I think there about 1.5% better, but the Nets would be worthy champions in any case, and making the Nets champs is a much harder task than the Thunder, their GM deserves a ton of praise for doing that.

thanks man

Rivera
07-31-2011, 10:37 AM
i feel that not only is the thunder team more complete it is deeper

i feel like haslem is a great matchup for dirk...haslem guards dirk well historically....and haslem will be 100% after a full season and playoffs

ginobili is a great matchup for wade....these two will go head to head

so the 2 big nets advantages the thunder have the best answers you can have (you cant stop dirk/wade you can only hope to contain them)

not to mention the thunder dominate at the PG/SF/C positions...and i mean dominate it isnt even close

thunder in 6

Jdawg
07-31-2011, 02:23 PM
Perkins was basically garbage in Oklahoma City. Regardless of how "big" he is, size doesn't help much when he sucks. I'm a Serge Ibaka fan, but so far he hasn't been good for much other than prodiving a dynamic threat in transition and weakside shot-blocking. Al Horford alone is several times better than both of them put together, at least right now. And honestly, I'd rather have Horford protecting the rim for 34-38 minutes a game than Ibaka for 25-30 minutes a game. As much as I like Serge, he's horribly foul prone.

Anyway, looks like the Nets are bound to pull away with this as I expected. No problem bowing out to you guys. Well deserved and long overdue for both of you :clap:

So it sounds like we agree. Perkins/Ibaka wouldn't be considered "small". And Haslem/Horford would be considered "undersized" at the very least.

The only thing we disagree on it seems would be how important size is in an NBA frontcourt of a team trying to win the championship.

Regardless of what happens, both of these teams are really nice. Great job to all the GMs.

Baller1
07-31-2011, 04:29 PM
This goes 7 games for sure. The Thunder's bench seals it for me.

The Dirk/Wade combo is nasty, but they lack the depth that the Thunder team has. Close series though.

Joshtd1
07-31-2011, 11:34 PM
Bump

Ebbs
08-01-2011, 12:53 AM
damn close

Catfish1314
08-01-2011, 12:58 AM
Honestly I'm surprised this is close.

Sadds The Gr8
08-01-2011, 01:00 AM
is this the official score or are there votes from posters with under 100 posts that need to be subtracted?

Catfish1314
08-01-2011, 01:03 AM
Either 34-32 or 33-32 Nets right now.

Joshtd1
08-01-2011, 03:30 AM
I believe we both have 3 guys that have under 100 votes or less. Official count I think is 37-34 Nets up.

Not sure why your suprised its close Catty. You made it to the finals and have a very good team. I hope and want to win, but it wouldn't shock me if I lose either.

Catfish1314
08-01-2011, 03:45 AM
Nets: 49erGiantLaker, ashyzup, nimzboy, Rangers331
Thunder: 23dragonzord, Melo4Mvp, im ur fatha

I don't guess Robbob's vote should be counted off you guys even though he was orginally mentioned in the Nets clubhouse. Pretty sure he was just eye candy for jimbob. So I've got 36-34.

I'm surprised it's close because this is kind of like the Finals last year with me and MHC against ebbs. Those lineups were pretty comparable but the results weren't close. But honestly I'm not really proud of the job I did with this team like I usually am. You guys deserve to win.

Sportfan
08-01-2011, 03:06 PM
My vote seems so important!

Lil Half Dead
08-01-2011, 03:21 PM
I just made it 41-40 for the Thunder

Stack_NJNets
08-01-2011, 03:48 PM
My vote goes to the Nets