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View Full Version : Do you still believe in Drabek?



Macedonian
07-30-2011, 07:17 AM
2011

Major League Stats
72.2 IP ; 5.70 ERA ; 1.789 WHIP ; 6.4 BB/9

Minor League Stats
37.2 IP ; 6.93 ERA ; 1.965 WHIP ; 5.3 BB/9

List night:
6.0 IP ; 10 H ; 5 ER ; 2 BB ; 2 K


By the way...
Last season with the Jays:
3 G ; 0 W ; 3 L

ThunderZubb
07-30-2011, 07:34 AM
Noo I don't believe him in right now so package him with a couple propects for Felix from Seattle.

fmradioguy
07-30-2011, 07:38 AM
It's interesting to point out that the exact same thing happened to his father Doug. Doug Drabek, in his last year as a prospect at AAA, had a 7.29 ERA through 8 starts, giving up more walks (25) than K's (23.) He was called up after that and had a fairly stellar Cy Young career thereafter (at least until he turned 32.) By comparison, Kyle is still doing better this year than his dad did at AAA. Keep in mind, Drabek initially bypassed AAA and went straight to Toronto. Maybe not the best thing for his development. Yes, I still believe in him.

torontosports10
07-30-2011, 08:01 AM
Ya, cause its so easy to package him for Felix.

Yes I still believe in him, he's had a rough time, but I think the Jays are partly to blame for it as well. They wanted him to throw the cutter, and pushed him with it, when it was obvious he couldn't control it. It got him in bad counts and he was practically ****ed. Now they want him to go back to just a 4 seamer, and he is still all over the place.

This year is pretty much a wipe out for him, next year will be a big year for him.

superfio
07-30-2011, 08:22 AM
John Lester and clay bucholtz needed 3 trips back n forth between majors n AAA

Drabek will rock by 2013

nithanyo
07-30-2011, 08:42 AM
I don't believe he will be a #2 type starter like many project him to be. I think he will make a nice #5 in a contender.

The pitcher i don't believe in is Brett Cecil. I just don't think he can get away with a 88mph fastball in the AL east. He has to be near perfect with the rest of his pitches for that to be.

Dol-Fan
07-30-2011, 09:05 AM
John Lester and clay bucholtz needed 3 trips back n forth between majors n AAA

Drabek will rock by 2013

This. Give the kid some time. The Jays made a mistake in trying to bump him straight from AA to the majors.

13Lawrie13
07-30-2011, 09:06 AM
This. Give the kid some time. The Jays made a mistake in trying to bump him straight from AA to the majors.

Don't expect to see any different.

Dol-Fan
07-30-2011, 09:09 AM
Don't expect to see any different.

You don't think a 23 year old kid can work on his control over a year or two?

13Lawrie13
07-30-2011, 09:14 AM
You don't think a 23 year old kid can work on his control over a year or two?

Oh, no, that's not what I was responding to. I myself believe in Drabek's abilities.

I was noting the fact that a lot of our top young pitchers will go straight from double-A to the bigs because of the PCL.

Honestly, I can't wait 'till we GTFO of Las Vegas.

jon32
07-30-2011, 09:26 AM
Ask this question again 5-10 years from now and if those stats havent changed much then i think ill stop believing in him.....but as a 23 year old...I think i still have some time to believe in him.

JaysFan87
07-30-2011, 09:29 AM
Ppl really need to learn some patience, especially with young pitchers in their first full season. Its ridiculous the unrealistic high expectations some of you guys put on young players on this ball club.

Towelie
07-30-2011, 10:07 AM
John Lester and clay bucholtz needed 3 trips back n forth between majors n AAA

Drabek will rock by 2013

Exactly. For most pitchers, it takes time to mature at a certain level. With Clay it took him two seasons of getting spot starts, same with Lester. Drabek just needs to find some confidence and string together some good starts. He's a talented guy. He's still 23, and usually 24, 25 is when most hit that point of being great, of course people like King Felix are exceptions to this.

Dol-Fan
07-30-2011, 10:09 AM
Exactly. For most pitchers, it takes time to mature at a certain level. With Clay it took him two seasons of getting spot starts, same with Lester. Drabek just needs to find some confidence and string together some good starts. He's a talented guy.

:nod:

Even more important for a guy like Drabek, who loses his composure so easily. A little confidence and maturity will do him wonders.

nstojic
07-30-2011, 10:41 AM
I do but if he's the key piece in a deal for felix or who's-bald-ho?, I pull that trigger

Jay
07-30-2011, 10:43 AM
This guy still has #3/4 starter potential in any rotation. He let his troubles get to his head. Start fresh next year and we should see a different pitcher.

DwayneMVPwade
07-30-2011, 10:58 AM
I believe in him. Pretty sure he can get his control right in a year or two. After that he still only 24 or 25.

superfio
07-30-2011, 11:05 AM
Since mentioned above, would u trade Doc (re-signed for 4 years) for king Felix (2 years left?) straight up?

I wouldn't but in case anyone would... We could try flipping drabek/dnauld/gose to seatle and call it a day... End of story

Jamiecballer
07-30-2011, 11:11 AM
my only concern is that command has always been an issue, even when he was successful in the minors. makes me think it's more than just him having a meltdown emotionally this year.

joshhorvath
07-30-2011, 11:12 AM
you do remember that Roy Halladay was sent down to the minors also right? Look how good he turned up :)

3mikee_
07-30-2011, 11:16 AM
Everybody gets sent down to the minors, no body just comes up and becomes cy young right away. Obviously he's been struggling with control and what not, give him a season or two and if he still sucks then yea I give up lol.

superfio
07-30-2011, 11:21 AM
From memory, only John olerud started a career in big leagues and never looked back

Drabek has got some time

3mikee_
07-30-2011, 11:23 AM
Was Olerud not a first baseman? lol, kind of making an awkward comparison there don't you think?

Dol-Fan
07-30-2011, 11:25 AM
my only concern is that command has always been an issue, even when he was successful in the minors. makes me think it's more than just him having a meltdown emotionally this year.

Mm...the only times he averaged over 4 BB/9 before this year were through 23.1 IP in 2006 and 2008 (rookie ball - 4.24 and 4.50 BB/9, respectively). Other than that, he's shown pretty decent walk numbers in the minors. Of course, low BB/9 numbers in the low minors are often a product of lower level batters being prone to chasing nasty pitches out of the zone...

Jays Claw
07-30-2011, 11:26 AM
The pitcher i don't believe in is Brett Cecil. I just don't think he can get away with a 88mph fastball in the AL east. He has to be near perfect with the rest of his pitches for that to be.

This is the exact same thing people said about Shaun Marcum. Though despite having minor struggles vs. the AL East, Marcum turned out to be a good enough SP to net us a bonafide prospect in Brett Lawrie. I believe in Cecil. The kid just needs some time to harness his pitches and to control his emotions.

As for Drabek, the same thing applies with him as with Cecil. We need to be patient. Rarely do we see 23-year-olds pitching like All-Stars nowadays.

Bombtista
07-30-2011, 11:34 AM
I still believe Drabek can be great.

Greater than a 4th or 5th starter in our rotation like some of you above have predicted. The kid was lights out in every single league he played in before being promoted to the big leagues and he was shocked with his struggles. You could just see the frustration on his face as he would simply get lit up by major league hitters. I believe this kind of start made him start to try and pick corners a little bit which resulted in a complete loss of command/confidence and a demotion was the best thing for him.

In the coming seasons im sure a lot of you will feel silly for giving up on him after struggling in his rookie season.

nithanyo
07-30-2011, 12:00 PM
you do remember that Roy Halladay was sent down to the minors also right? Look how good he turned up :)

People should really stop using this as an example. How many pitchers with a 6+ era have been sent to the minors and never seen the light of the majors ever again? Im sure like 99% of them never make it back up as significant pitchers again.

This halladay comparison is really annoying. Its like saying players who have been traded 5 times turn out to be Jose Bautistas.

Eitherway i still believe in Drabek. I don't think he is gonna be the bonafide starter people expect him to be but a nice back of the rotation guy.

nithanyo
07-30-2011, 12:14 PM
This is the exact same thing people said about Shaun Marcum. Though despite having minor struggles vs. the AL East, Marcum turned out to be a good enough SP to net us a bonafide prospect in Brett Lawrie. I believe in Cecil. The kid just needs some time to harness his pitches and to control his emotions.

As for Drabek, the same thing applies with him as with Cecil. We need to be patient. Rarely do we see 23-year-olds pitching like All-Stars nowadays.

Marcum has always been fairly good as a SP. although his fastball topped out at 90mph it hasn't been a dependant pitch for him. He pitches off his change up and he has plus control. That alone can win you a lot of games

Cecil on the other hand relies on his fastball too much and if that isn't working for him his change up and slider command has to be impeccable. Too many things have to fall in place for Cecil to be good. I just can't see him being good from one start to another on a consistent basis let alone from one season to the next.

Krylian
07-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Fans that are willing to give up on prospects so easily are annoying and should be seen and not heard.

There are countless examples of players who have struggled in their first stint in the majors and go back and forth a few times before it clicks.

You people baffle me.
Yes. I still believe in Kyle. His stuff is very good and I believe he will be a very effective major leaguer. Possibly excellent. No reason to give him away now.

Billyen
07-30-2011, 12:31 PM
Was Olerud not a first baseman? lol, kind of making an awkward comparison there don't you think?

To the OP...Yes and no...I think he needs to go back to the AA level and start from scratch. He's totally buggered now.

Olerud is my #1 Jay of all time...He's also a great person...however it did take him 2 years to get it going, but man did he figure it out in the 3rd year.

I believe and wish more talented players should be given 150AB or 10 starts in the Bigs from the start. If you have talent....you can do it. I spend lots of time going over HOFers and the all seemed to start before they were 22. Most of them took a year or 2 but, the skill kicked in.

Now it's 3 years in HS. 2-3 years in college and 3-4 years on the farm.

JMac4PM
07-30-2011, 12:32 PM
if he can get some control (which should get better with age) he'll become a serviceable major league pitcher.

Jay
07-30-2011, 12:40 PM
if he can get some control (which should get better with age) he'll become a serviceable major league pitcher.

You're definitely selling his talent short.

GNick
07-30-2011, 01:16 PM
Drabek is about middle of rotation starter. Career year may be a #2 starter, off year bounce from back of rotation to minors. I would try him as closer, he has decent stuff and different attitude. Most top closers are off the wall

BlueJayFanDan
07-30-2011, 01:53 PM
I believe in Drabek. I would happily use him in a trade to improve our rotation for the future if such a guy was able to be had but I still see Drabek as a potential #2 pitcher. He is young. Give it time.

ghost dog
07-30-2011, 02:13 PM
ppl really need to learn some patience, especially with young pitchers in their first full season. Its ridiculous the unrealistic high expectations some of you guys put on young players on this ball club.

this!!!!

ThunderZubb
07-30-2011, 02:37 PM
Some fans are parient fans but if the mariners called AA and said we want Drabek. Mariners said we will trade Felix but drabek has to be part of a package in the trade would you guys do it? Well felix is a true number 1 starter that the jays are lacking so yes I would trade drabek in a heartbeat for Felix H and if we land Felix yes yes yes I would trade drabek in a package. Well I gave up on the guy and I rather have Felix H over drabek any day of the week.

mlbfan01
07-30-2011, 04:11 PM
Some fans are parient fans but if the mariners called AA and said we want Drabek. Mariners said we will trade Felix but drabek has to be part of a package in the trade would you guys do it? Well felix is a true number 1 starter that the jays are lacking so yes I would trade drabek in a heartbeat for Felix H and if we land Felix yes yes yes I would trade drabek in a package. Well I gave up on the guy and I rather have Felix H over drabek any day of the week.

Obviously, it would depend upon the package. Say Drabek, Thames, Chad Jenkins, JP Arencibia and one or two more players. We need D'arnaud to be ready (which he isn't yet) to make the team to probably make this deal.

Felix is a bonafide #1. He hasn't had his best year yet. He instantly becomes #1 on most teams and would solidify the Blue Jays starting staff.

Felix
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Villenauva

The bullpen needs to be addressed, possibly through free agency and bringing up 1 or 2 guys from the farm. Mills looked pretty good today and would give us a lefty in the pen.

Drabek seems to be in a mental headlock right now. He needs to sort himself out and gain composure. He has youth, inexperience and talent on his side.

ThunderZubb
07-30-2011, 05:05 PM
I think giving up drabek, thames, Chad Jenkins and JP Arencibia is way to much for felix H. I think drabek and Travis D'Araund and two lower propects would net the jays Felix H. I would keep JP Arencibia is the really deal and he is going to be a star in this league. Plus we are giving the mariners two propects that are in the top 50 baseball America rankings so I think that would be enough to be honest with.

Towelie
07-30-2011, 05:18 PM
I believe in Drabek. I would happily use him in a trade to improve our rotation for the future if such a guy was able to be had but I still see Drabek as a potential #2 pitcher. He is young. Give it time.

You'd be selling to low on him at this point. Unless someone else really believes more then the Jays. He's worth holding onto unless something special becomes available. There was a time were Clay B was trying to shipped at a low point. Glad the Sox didn't.

Bombtista
07-30-2011, 05:23 PM
We would be so stupid to give up on Drabek after one poor rookie season. And unless we trade for a proven ace pitcher he wont be traded

Jamiecballer
07-30-2011, 05:25 PM
Mm...the only times he averaged over 4 BB/9 before this year were through 23.1 IP in 2006 and 2008 (rookie ball - 4.24 and 4.50 BB/9, respectively). Other than that, he's shown pretty decent walk numbers in the minors. Of course, low BB/9 numbers in the low minors are often a product of lower level batters being prone to chasing nasty pitches out of the zone...

i suppose... still, for somebody who has never been a big strike out pitcher i would say command has always been a bit of a concern.

scottythegreat1
07-30-2011, 06:53 PM
I remember when Yankee fans wanted Robinson Cano traded........ nowadays, he's untouchable.

idrinkpepsi
07-30-2011, 09:31 PM
A little worried, but not much at all he'll work it out in the minors but he shouldn't be in Vegas.

1hardcore
07-30-2011, 10:01 PM
Yes i still believe! The Jays rushed him skipping passed the AAA level....

T.O. Fan
07-30-2011, 10:31 PM
What a joke

nithanyo
07-30-2011, 10:35 PM
well we know who won the halladay trade :sad2:

but like someone said. If he doesn't pan out as a starter i think he will be effective closing games

Billyen
07-30-2011, 10:59 PM
well we know who won the halladay trade :sad2:

but like someone said. If he doesn't pan out as a starter i think he will be effective closing games

Yes...this is the part that's starting to sting.

In the end...all 3 had to become stars to keep it even. Doc is a HOFer.

wamco
07-30-2011, 11:12 PM
winfield played 0g in minors. was drafted in basketball and nfl also. I thought murray skipped minors as well but I was wrong. sidenote: i hate eddie murray in the HOF.

JoeyBats
07-30-2011, 11:15 PM
It's absolutely ridiculous to give up on Drabek now. I believe Roy Halladay had an ERA of 10.00+ one season for the Jays...and you all know how that ended. I'm not saying he's a Halladay, but to give up on him now is just IMPATIENCE. People just totally forget how young these players are.....

GrantHustle
07-30-2011, 11:19 PM
winfield played 0g in minors. was drafted in basketball and nfl also. I thought murray skipped minors as well but I was wrong. sidenote: i hate eddie murray in the HOF.

why? 3255 hits.....504 hr's....1917 rbi's ....life time .287 avg with a .359 obp ....8 time all star ....3 time gold glove winner....world series winner.....25th all time in home runs and 9th all time in rbi's ....so why hate?

wamco
07-30-2011, 11:32 PM
last decade of his career he was a sub 800 ops 1bman collecting the stats that got him into the HOF. I NEVER heard anyone on the ballpark mention Eddie Murray's name and I saw his prime.


Anywhoo...other notables to skip minors....jim abbott, catfish hunter, dreifort, feller, koufax al kaline, killebrew, incaviglia, mike leake, nady, mel ott, sisler.

Macedonian
07-31-2011, 12:25 AM
Kyle Drabek
Minor league stats

HR/9 K/9 BB/9 SO/BB W-L%
2009 0.5 8.5 2.8 3.00 .800
2010 0.7 7.3 3.8 1.94 .609
2011 1.4 6.5 5.3 1.23 .500

Raps08-09 Champ
07-31-2011, 09:11 AM
I trust him.

He's only 22.

A lot of pitchers don't usually become effective until they are mid 20's.

Ricky Romero is a good recent example in the Blue Jays organization. Halladay was pretty inconsistent his early 20's too.

Roy was doing better at his age since he's on a whole another level but just give Drabek time.

North Yorker
07-31-2011, 09:16 AM
^Yea exactly Ricky was **** in the minors.

He just needs to rediscover his command and trust his stuff. Ogando/Pineda/Holland just pound the zone with 94+mph fastballs to get ahead in the count. Drabek can do the same.

SuperBad
07-31-2011, 10:01 AM
It's absolutely ridiculous to give up on Drabek now. I believe Roy Halladay had an ERA of 10.00+ one season for the Jays...and you all know how that ended. I'm not saying he's a Halladay, but to give up on him now is just IMPATIENCE. People just totally forget how young these players are.....

AGREED! How can anyone say we lost the Halladay Trade when we are a few yeras away from knowing how good Drabek and the other prospects will be :confused: People need to get over it and move on! It's pro sports..players get traded. Didn't Halladay have to go back tothe minors to get his stuff straightend out?? Good thing we didn't give up on that guy!! lol

SuperBad
07-31-2011, 10:04 AM
well we know who won the halladay trade :sad2:

but like someone said. If he doesn't pan out as a starter i think he will be effective closing games

Unless you can effectively read the future and predict Drabek's Career as well as the other prospects involved...you cannot make that statement just yet!

Post that statement in 2-3 years if Halladay has won 5 world series titles in 3 years with the Phils and has won 7 Cy awards while Drabek is chill'n on Lakeshore and Blue Jays Way asking for change!

lexecutioner
07-31-2011, 10:23 AM
Do i still believe? Absolutely! why shouldn't i? he is still young just needs a rude awakening that he will not always dominate like he used to be.

i could say i lower my expectations on him but you shouldn't doubt a young talent like him its not like its unprecedented that young pitchers might struggle happens alot.

DwayneMVPwade
07-31-2011, 10:34 AM
well we know who won the halladay trade :sad2:

but like someone said. If he doesn't pan out as a starter i think he will be effective closing games

How did we lose this trade. Last time I checked Halladay has not won a world series (Though I would like to see him win one) and we have to really good prospects who should be up in 2-3 years in D'Arnaud and Gose. And why is so many people giving up on Drabek after he struggled out of the gate. he is only 23 and even if he takes him 1 or 2 years to get his control down he still is only 24 or 25.

wamco
07-31-2011, 02:11 PM
but then when you are 29 you are "old" (Marcum)

Halladay not winning a world series in his first year in Philly while putting up Cy young numbers was awesome analysis.

I can imagine how the responses would change if he was packaged in a trade today at the deadline.

dunedinjays
07-31-2011, 05:04 PM
well we know who won the halladay trade :sad2:

but like someone said. If he doesn't pan out as a starter i think he will be effective closing games

You know who won the Halladay trade? Halladay. Because he didn't waste another year of his career pitching for a 4th place team.

ThunderZubb
07-31-2011, 05:23 PM
You know who won the Halladay trade? Halladay. Because he didn't waste another year of his career pitching for a 4th place team.

Exactly and you know also lost this trade the Boston red sox who wanted Roy halladay so bad but the jays refused to trade halladay to boston red sox because red sox refused to give us anything decent in a trade. Also red sox and Yankees were chopping there mouths waiting for Doc to become a free agent. I am glad that we traded Doc to the phillies not to the Yankees or red sox so Yankees and boston red sox loss the doc sweepstakes so stop trolling.

dunedinjays
07-31-2011, 05:31 PM
Exactly and you know also lost this trade the Boston red sox who wanted Roy halladay so bad but the jays refused to trade halladay to boston red sox because red sox refused to give us anything decent in a trade. Also red sox and Yankees were chopping there mouths waiting for Doc to become a free agent. I am glad that we traded Doc to the phillies not to the Yankees or red sox so Yankees and boston red sox loss the doc sweepstakes so stop trolling.

wow, you had a lot to vent

StayOnBoard
07-31-2011, 05:40 PM
How did we lose this trade. Last time I checked Halladay has not won a world series (Though I would like to see him win one) and we have to really good prospects who should be up in 2-3 years in D'Arnaud and Gose. And why is so many people giving up on Drabek after he struggled out of the gate. he is only 23 and even if he takes him 1 or 2 years to get his control down he still is only 24 or 25.

You realize this is Toronto right?

ThunderZubb
07-31-2011, 05:41 PM
wow, you had a lot to vent

Not really venting just stating the facts and news flash the Yankees and red sox are not only teams that you make a trade with. It seems when the Yankees or red sox players want a player they try to lowball other teams and it is happening right now during this trade deadline were both of Yankees and red sox try to lowball teams but I am guessing it is not working right now for them but it has worked in the past for both of these teams. Your jealous that the jays did not trade Roy halladay to your bully team of a red sox team who tried to lowball us in a trade but Philadelphia Phillies gave us three outstanding prospects that are in the top 50 BA rankings at the time. Red sox were only giving us one premium talent that was in the top 50 BA rankings so red sox also loss the trade by not getting Roy halladay. I am so happy that phillies got Roy halladay not our evil teams that are in the AL East who don't deserve of a player name Roy halladay.Doc has a good chance of winning the world series in next five years and be honest with you that he will win 1 at least of a world series.

StayOnBoard
07-31-2011, 05:43 PM
Not really venting just stating the facts and news flash the Yankees and red sox are not only teams that you make a trade with. It seems when the Yankees or red sox players want a player they try to lowball other teams and it is happening right now during this trade deadline were both of Yankees and red sox try to lowball teams but I am guessing it is not working right now for them but it has worked in the past for both of these teams. Your jealous that the jays did not trade Roy halladay to your bully team of a red sox team who trade to lowball us in a trade but Philadelphia Phillies gave us three outstanding prospects that are in the top 50 BA rankings at the time. Red sox were only giving us one premium talent that was in the top 50 BA rankings so red sox also loss the trade by not getting Roy halladay.

The Red Sox would kill for Halladay right now, especially with all their injuries and suckage from John Lackey.

ThunderZubb
07-31-2011, 05:53 PM
The Red Sox would kill for Halladay right now, especially with all their injuries and suckage from John Lackey.

Exactly they would love Roy halladay and I am glad they dont have him. We all know that Espn at the time said he will be a free agent and will not sign an extension in which I had no problem of him not doing so because we were in rebuilding mode. The Red sox fans were bragging that they had a legit chance getting Roy halladay during free agencies. That is probably why red sox were lowballing us in giving us decent in a trade so ya Boston would kill right now to have Roy halladay and probably regret not giving us something good in a day. That is why in the off season they want out gave lackey 18 million a year and how did that turn out for them haha.

13Lawrie13
07-31-2011, 06:00 PM
wow, you had a lot to vent

Still trolling? That's cool.

Towelie
07-31-2011, 07:50 PM
The Red Sox would kill for Halladay right now, especially with all their injuries and suckage from John Lackey.

Wouldn't anyone kill for him? Has nothing to do with Lackey who hasn't been as bad since the All Star break. When your the best pitcher for almost a decade anyone would kill for him.



Exactly they would love Roy halladay and I am glad they dont have him. We all know that Espn at the time said he will be a free agent and will not sign an extension in which I had no problem of him not doing so because we were in rebuilding mode. The Red sox fans were bragging that they had a legit chance getting Roy halladay during free agencies. That is probably why red sox were lowballing us in giving us decent in a trade so ya Boston would kill right now to have Roy halladay and probably regret not giving us something good in a day. That is why in the off season they want out gave lackey 18 million a year and how did that turn out for them haha.

I followed it pretty well and Boston was never going to try and go to FA with him. Clearly whoever traded for him would lock him up. We did offer top prospects but there was no way AA would trade within the division.

wamco
07-31-2011, 08:43 PM
Exactly and you know also lost this trade the Boston red sox who wanted Roy halladay so bad but the jays refused to trade halladay to boston red sox because red sox refused to give us anything decent in a trade. Also red sox and Yankees were chopping there mouths waiting for Doc to become a free agent. I am glad that we traded Doc to the phillies not to the Yankees or red sox so Yankees and boston red sox loss the doc sweepstakes so stop trolling.

ya must suck to be a sox fan

13Lawrie13
07-31-2011, 09:00 PM
Trolling? I think it's called telling the truth. Im just saying exactly what Halladay said which is he didn't want to stick around long term and he'd rather play for a contender than spend another year with a mediocre team

I see that you're bitter that he didn't pick yours.

McJoe
07-31-2011, 09:25 PM
I don't believe he will be a #2 type starter like many project him to be. I think he will make a nice #5 in a contender.

The pitcher i don't believe in is Brett Cecil. I just don't think he can get away with a 88mph fastball in the AL east. He has to be near perfect with the rest of his pitches for that to be.

Brett Cecil went 11-2 with a 3.47 ERA against the AL East last season and only 14 of those innings were against the Orioles. 4-0 2.67 in 5 starts against the Yanks. That's not a fluke. He didn't accidentally dominate the division. He was also 2-0 in Fenway even though he didn't pitch all that well and 1-0 in 2 starts in New York with an ERA under 3. Now maybe you can draw a comparison to the great Gustavo Chacin who went 21-11 over his 2 decent seasons but Chacin 13-11 against the East career against a far inferior Rays team. Chacin however is 6-0 with a 3.82 ERA against the Red Sox.

As far as Drabek, we can't throw him under the bus yet at all. The guy has only made 8 starts in AAA in a strong hitting minor league after losing his confidence. Kid just needs his confidence back. He'll be a top 2 starter with his stuff. He's got better stuff than Morrow, just needs some command.

ThunderZubb
07-31-2011, 09:28 PM
Wouldn't anyone kill for him? Has nothing to do with Lackey who hasn't been as bad since the All Star break. When your the best pitcher for almost a decade anyone would kill for him.




I followed it pretty well and Boston was never going to try and go to FA with him. Clearly whoever traded for him would lock him up. We did offer top prospects but there was no way AA would trade within the division.

Your wrong AA was willing to listen to offers any team in the league including offers from the red sox and the Yankees. AA did not care about not trading within the division as long as the best offer that is on table. Intrigue what prospects that Boston red sox was offering us because I remember red sox was lowballing us in every aspect. Your bitter that the phillies got halladay not the sox because theo thought he was do start by lowballing the jays that he thought the jays would pudge about the crap the red sox was offering. I remember it was one prospect that the red sox was offering not 3 prospects that the phillies offered three prospects that were in the top 50 BA rankings like i said before. Red sox offered us junk and offered one prospects that were in the top 50 BA rankings and I believe that was clay B that is all that the red sox offered for Roy halladay. Trust me if Boston offered us a better package than the phillies than Roy halladay would of been a red sox. Your bitter that your GM thought they would get Roy halladay by trying to rip off the jays by lowballing the jays by thinking AA was desperate at the time. News flash AA was not going to get lowballed by GM that he liwballs other teams by being a bully. I am sorry that Roy halladay is not a red sox that your team is paying John lackey like a number 1 starter and he is not worth his 18 million contract oh boy you could had halladay for 18 million haha. Your bully of a GM would of offered AA a better package than the phillies than Roy halladay would of been a red sox and boston would not have to pay lackey 18 million dollars. Sorry you lost in the Roy halladay sweepstakes stop being bitter that Roy is not a red sox.

lmallia
07-31-2011, 09:31 PM
Alright this conversation is out of control everywhere. Sure, the Red Sox would love Halladay, but the Red Sox are a great team, so chirping them seems stupid.

That being said, is it necessary to come in here and blantantly take a jab calling us a "4th place team" ? Yes sure, it's a fact. So are many things that are classless.

dunedinjays
07-31-2011, 11:32 PM
I see that you're bitter that he didn't pick yours.

No, I'm actually quite happy for Halladay. Hopefully he gets that ring cause he wasn't getting it staying in Toronto

Towelie
07-31-2011, 11:56 PM
Your wrong AA was willing to listen to offers any team in the league including offers from the red sox and the Yankees. AA did not care about not trading within the division as long as the best offer that is on table. Intrigue what prospects that Boston red sox was offering us because I remember red sox was lowballing us in every aspect. Your bitter that the phillies got halladay not the sox because theo thought he was do start by lowballing the jays that he thought the jays would pudge about the crap the red sox was offering. I remember it was one prospect that the red sox was offering not 3 prospects that the phillies offered three prospects that were in the top 50 BA rankings like i said before. Red sox offered us junk and offered one prospects that were in the top 50 BA rankings and I believe that was clay B that is all that the red sox offered for Roy halladay. Trust me if Boston offered us a better package than the phillies than Roy halladay would of been a red sox. Your bitter that your GM thought they would get Roy halladay by trying to rip off the jays by lowballing the jays by thinking AA was desperate at the time. News flash AA was not going to get lowballed by GM that he liwballs other teams by being a bully. I am sorry that Roy halladay is not a red sox that your team is paying John lackey like a number 1 starter and he is not worth his 18 million contract oh boy you could had halladay for 18 million haha. Your bully of a GM would of offered AA a better package than the phillies than Roy halladay would of been a red sox and boston would not have to pay lackey 18 million dollars. Sorry you lost in the Roy halladay sweepstakes stop being bitter that Roy is not a red sox.

lol, I'm not bitter I just said who the hell wouldn't love to have him. I also saw many times that we offered Justin Masterson or Lars anderson or Michael Bowden and Clay Buchholz at one point plus other low A prospects. Thats a low ball offer? I don't think so. It's a better offer then what you guys actually did receive from the Phillies. Hell with a Rotation of Masterson, Romero, Buchholz, Morrow, and whoever you'd have one of the best rotations in the league.

Have a read and educate yourself.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz072809

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/red-sox-offered-6-pitchers-for-halladay.html



10:14am: Last month, Theo Epstein said Boston aggressively pursued Roy Halladay at the deadline and that their final offer was "probably the best offer [J.P. Ricciardi] received." According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, that may have been a 6-for-1 offer of Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone.

So again where was the low balling coming from? You guys would look amazing right now for taking that deal. But it didn't happen. Was this with JP? Yup. But AA was no better.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/cafardo-on-lowe-red-sox-millwood.html


"Cafardo doesn't think that Roy Halladay will be a Red Sox next season. He can't see a trade happening "unless some sense of realism overtakes the Blue Jays" and they lower the asking price for their ace."

So again.


The Red Sox’s offer includes top pitching prospect Clay Buchholz(notes), as Yahoo! Sports reported Wednesday. The Blue Jays also have been given the choice of reliever Justin Masterson(notes), Triple-A pitcher Michael Bowden(notes) or Double-A first baseman Lars Anderson(notes), with lesser prospects from the farm system filling out the Boston offer. The Red Sox from the beginning have included Buchholz because the Blue Jays made it clear he would have to be the starting point of any deal.

Again no low ball here. Lars Anderson at the time was out No.1 guy as well. So again educate youself before you talk **** about stuff you have zero idea about. The Sox offered a way better deal then what was accepted. There was no way AA was going to take a deal that was within the division and remind Jays fans every year what they once had. Could you imagine the press the Jays would get if Halladay helped the Sox win the WS. If the Phillies win who cares he's in the NL.

Johann
08-01-2011, 12:00 AM
He's never lied to me - so yes.

Luca68
08-01-2011, 12:08 AM
He's never lied to me - so yes.

well played johan :clap:

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 02:18 AM
Whatever towelie but you are bitter and face the facts that your team is a bully and like to lowball other teams that is what Theo does as a GM and he did try to lowball AA because he is a GM who started as his first year. Let me get this straight Boston offered Clay B by the way who is injurie prone and AA had to choose one of three prospects that were offered on the table like choosing either Justin M, Michael Bowden or Lars Anderson who is another AAAA player than filling out the trade by giving up 2 minors leaguers who are not in top 50 BA rankings. What the hell is wrong with AA man he should jump on that offer by jumping on Theo nuts by not accepting phillies offer by the way is a better offer than the red sox offered the jays. Phillies offered the jays three premium prospects that are in the top 50 BA rankings. Drabek who has potential to be a future ace pitcher who honestly is going to be better than Clay B who is a injury prone pitcher, one of the best catching prospects that is in the minor leagues and one of the best centre fielders that are in the minor leagues named Anthony Gose who is only 20 years old but AA should of jumped on Theo nuts accepted the red sox offer what a moron AA is. You are bitter towelie and a big troll so go back to your Boston nation who in the last couple years thinks that they are the greatest baseball in the world but before you guys won the world series in 2004 that red sox fans were humble and genuine fans but since 2004 and after that the fans been way to cocky towards jays fans and love banishing our team. That is why your team is a bully in my eyes but I don't care if I get banned for couple days, weeks or months gotta state my opinion and free of speech thank you. Yes red sox fans are bitter because they could of had Roy halladay if the red sox offered a better package than the phillies but tried to lowball AA in a deal yes I said lowball in which Boston does to other teams. Stop trolling our board and very upset that signed a pitcher who Boston red sox thought is the same caliber as roy halladay in which 18 million dollar John lackey cannot hold Roy halladay jock strap in any given day. 18 million dollars for lackey hows that going Boston red sox fans how is that going for you guys. Boston red sox are bitter bitter bitter bitter not getting Roy halladay cry me a river towelie.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 02:25 AM
Quote:
10:14am: Last month, Theo Epstein said Boston aggressively pursued Roy Halladay at the deadline and that their final offer was "probably the best offer [J.P. Ricciardi] received." According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, that may have been a 6-for-1 offer of Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone.

That year JP is a moron of a GM and never trusted of making any trades plus we going after the wild card in which the jays finished 2nd in the division. Why would JP trade Roy
Halladay in which he was having a CY young caliber season and blue jays know that if he did not get traded than that there always a great market like a pitcher like roy halladay and Phillis gave the jays the best offer than Boston red sox I am sorry.

torontosports10
08-01-2011, 07:31 AM
Why do Boston fans feel the need to Troll here anyway? GTFO.

Twitchy
08-01-2011, 08:10 AM
Let's keep this thread about Drabek and not some stupid argument about a trade rumour that has been debunked several times.

StayOnBoard
08-01-2011, 08:23 AM
Classless? Its called the truth. Not my fault if you can't accept it for what it is. All I said was Halladay got the best out of the trade and everybody got so upset. Quite hilarious.

Actually - the problem is Boston fans like yourself always coming into our forum trying to stir the pot.

Wanna know how often I go to the Red Sox forum and post?

But... Boston fans just think they can be argumentative and not worry about it - though they do nothing 'wrong' you know with 100% certainty they are only posting to get a rise out of people.

The topic is about DRABEK - but yet we got on the topic of Halladay. Hmm... wonder how that happened :rolleyes:

nstojic
08-01-2011, 09:30 AM
Why do Boston fans feel the need to Troll here anyway? GTFO.

take it as a compliment.. i do :D

why? because we're headed towards being a serious threat to them... as towel, himself, put it, in another thread, paraphrasing here 'we're the rays but with the financial support to keep our young stars, one day, and add expensive pieces in FAcy'

they only troll the ones, they fear :D

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 10:47 AM
Actually - the problem is Boston fans like yourself always coming into our forum trying to stir the pot.

Wanna know how often I go to the Red Sox forum and post?

But... Boston fans just think they can be argumentative and not worry about it - though they do nothing 'wrong' you know with 100% certainty they are only posting to get a rise out of people.

The topic is about DRABEK - but yet we got on the topic of Halladay. Hmm... wonder how that happened :rolleyes:

"well we know who won the halladay trade"

Guess what? I didn't write that

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 10:51 AM
take it as a compliment.. i do :D

why? because we're headed towards being a serious threat to them... as towel, himself, put it, in another thread, paraphrasing here 'we're the rays but with the financial support to keep our young stars, one day, and add expensive pieces in FAcy'

they only troll the ones, they fear :D

Well, good luck.

When the Jays actually have a winning record against AL East opponents, then maybe Yankees, Red Sox and Rays fans will start worrying.

13Lawrie13
08-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Well, good luck.

When the Jays actually have a winning record against AL East opponents, then maybe Yankees, Red Sox and Rays fans will start worrying.

I'm not sure if you're purposely a ****ing moron, or if that your really this dumb.

Please, go troll elsewhere, it would be greatly appreciated.

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm not sure if you're purposely a ****ing moron, or if that your really this dumb.

Please, go troll elsewhere, it would be greatly appreciated.

Dumb? What have I said that isn't the truth? Don't get me wromg, Im sure the Jays will be good in a year or 2 but unless they start consistently beating AL East opponents, they won't make the playoffs

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 12:10 PM
Well, good luck.

When the Jays actually have a winning record against AL East opponents, then maybe Yankees, Red Sox and Rays fans will start worrying.

If the Jays win their next series they will be in the highly touted third place in the AL east so i think at the very least we are worrying them this season. Next season it will be the Yankees and Sox

town123
08-01-2011, 12:13 PM
Theo Epstein said Boston aggressively pursued Roy Halladay at the deadline and that their final offer was "probably the best offer [J.P. Ricciardi] received." According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, that may have been a 6-for-1 offer of Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone.

I know hindsight is bla bla bla, but, damn I'm glad JP is with the Mets instead of us now.

sorry Drabek....but

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 12:34 PM
Theo Epstein said Boston aggressively pursued Roy Halladay at the deadline and that their final offer was "probably the best offer [J.P. Ricciardi] received." According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, that may have been a 6-for-1 offer of Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone.

I know hindsight is bla bla bla, but, damn I'm glad JP is with the Mets instead of us now.

sorry Drabek....but

If true, that's quite a package the Jays would have gotten. Masterson and Buccholz in the Jays rotation with Romero and Morrow would have been something.

a_roid_3333
08-01-2011, 03:09 PM
ofcourse i still believe in kyle drabek. i actually think what has gone on with him this year will make him a better pitcher for the future, sometimes you have to experience the lows before you can sustain and appreciate the highs.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 03:29 PM
Theo Epstein said Boston aggressively pursued Roy Halladay at the deadline and that their final offer was "probably the best offer [J.P. Ricciardi] received." According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, that may have been a 6-for-1 offer of Clay Buchholz, Justin Masterson, Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Felix Doubront, and Nick Hagadone.

I know hindsight is bla bla bla, but, damn I'm glad JP is with the Mets instead of us now.

sorry Drabek....but

Everyone need to realize that jays were battling for the wild card at the time Boston offered that package to JP when JP just wanted to know if he put halladay on the trade market that what he would get for halladay. JP had no intention of trading halladay that year to any team and it did not matter what was offered especially injury prone pitcher like Clay B. Imagine JP expected that package from Boston red sox at the time than jay fans would be asking for JP head alot early than he was gone from this organization plus why would trade a guy who is the face of the franchise who was pitching like a CY pitcher during a wild card race. I love it when red sox fans come to our board and bait our team for no reason. I barely see any Yankee fans who come on our board and bait and troll our board. The difference the Yankee fans dont troll and bait jay fans because they don't need to do it just Yankee fans know that they are great team by showing on the field. Lately red sox are getting really annoying and getting very disrespectful fans towards other fans of other teams and they come onto this forum by starting **** with us. You red sox fans are so bored arguing with Yankee fans lately that you guys have to come to other forums and starting arguing with other teams Please get a life red sox fans and get out of our forum bunch of trollers.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 03:39 PM
I rather have that package phillies offered the jays than Boston Red Sox offered the jays. Drabek has more potential than injure prone Clay B, Anthony Gose who is only 20 years old is one of the best center fielders in the minor leagues by only getting better and better and it is pretty scary and Travis D'Araund who is one of the best catchers in the minor leagues so those three are in the top 50 BA Rankings in which we will have a problem about the catching position by trading one of JP or Travis D'raund.

wamco
08-01-2011, 03:41 PM
gose wasnt in the deal of course

JaysFan87
08-01-2011, 03:45 PM
gose wasnt in the deal of course

true...but taylor turned into Wallace who turned into Gose. Obviously at the time AA didnt know he good Tayle into Gose but nonetheless....right now its Gose.

wagnall
08-01-2011, 04:01 PM
If they do to Drabek what they did to Cecil, how can you not believe he comes back. To me he thought very highly of himself and was too imature in how he delt with failure. Fix that and do the Cecil voodoo on him I see him back next year.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 04:13 PM
gose wasnt in the deal of course

Sorry your right about Gose But Taylor got traded to the A's for Brett Wallace and than we traded Brett Wallace to the Astros for Anthony gose because Astros traded roy oswalt to the phillies
But Astros got Gose in that trade but traded Gose to the jays so at the end we got drabek, Travis D'Araund and gose at the end of all the trades AA made to get the players he truly wanted from the beginning but phillies refused to trade Gose to jays in the first place but AA always gets his man no matter what.

wamco
08-01-2011, 04:37 PM
the discussion was which package was better, and gose was 2 players removed at that time.

what if we held onto taylor as we got in that package, how would people feel about the trade?

What if we held onto wallace?

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 05:23 PM
Everyone need to realize that jays were battling for the wild card at the time Boston offered that package to JP when JP just wanted to know if he put halladay on the trade market that what he would get for halladay. JP had no intention of trading halladay that year to any team and it did not matter what was offered especially injury prone pitcher like Clay B. Imagine JP expected that package from Boston red sox at the time than jay fans would be asking for JP head alot early than he was gone from this organization plus why would trade a guy who is the face of the franchise who was pitching like a CY pitcher during a wild card race. I love it when red sox fans come to our board and bait our team for no reason. I barely see any Yankee fans who come on our board and bait and troll our board. The difference the Yankee fans dont troll and bait jay fans because they don't need to do it just Yankee fans know that they are great team by showing on the field. Lately red sox are getting really annoying and getting very disrespectful fans towards other fans of other teams and they come onto this forum by starting **** with us. You red sox fans are so bored arguing with Yankee fans lately that you guys have to come to other forums and starting arguing with other teams Please get a life red sox fans and get out of our forum bunch of trollers.

Uhhh, were you watching the same Jays team as the rest of us? They had a hot start to the season and were basically out of contention by the All Star break, so I got no idea where you got that from

boilerguy2412
08-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Kyle will be a better pitcher in the future because of this season. I still think he is going to turn out to be a good #2 or a great #3 for us

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 05:32 PM
Uhhh, were you watching the same Jays team as the rest of us? They had a hot start to the season and were basically out of contention by the All Star break, so I got no idea where you got that from

First off traitor who is probably Canadian but likes Boston who is AL East rival and I don't know what team you were watching. Remember we finished 2nd in the division a head of your Boston red sox team so ya we were in contention of trying to get the wild card so keep watching your red sox team and dont know **** about the jays so you don't know the **** you are talking about troll and traitor.

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 05:36 PM
First off traitor who is probably Canadian but likes Boston who is AL East rival and I don't know what team you were watching. Remember we finished 2nd in the division a head of your Boston red sox team so ya we were in contention of trying to get the wild card so keep watching your red sox team and dont know **** about the jays so you don't know the **** you are talking about troll and traitor.

So the Jays were in 2nd? Because when I look at the standings around the all star break, this is what it shows:

Boston 54 34
NY Yankees 51 37
Tampa Bay 48 41
Toronto 44 46
Baltimore 40 48

lol, so you might want to learn to read some numbers before you open your mouth and start arguing against something that I can't possibly make up

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Look at your great Clay B wow it sucks that he is injured that is such a shame that he is always injure prone lol good luck with a messed up starting rotation. Well our future looks much better than your future. It sucks that Roy halladay does not play for your team and jay fans knew for 10 years that halladay is the best pitcher in the game but know people are realizing when he is now pitching for the phillies.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 05:38 PM
So the Jays were in 2nd? Because when I look at the standings around the all star break, this is what it shows:

Boston 54 34
NY Yankees 51 37
Tampa Bay 48 41
Toronto 44 46
Baltimore 40 48

lol, so you might want to learn to read some numbers before you open your mouth and start arguing against something that I can't possibly make up

Wow you got this year standings before the all star break. Congrats but we played good baseball in the second half of the season and we were 2nd division by years end in the AL East somyour telling me that Boston went 31-34 in the second by winning only 85 games. Wow thank good you got this year standing congrats but the year we are talking about is the trade offer that Theo gave JP not giving me the crappy this year standings. Maybe you forgot we won 87 games for second place in the division but let me guess you forgot that we got second place in the division by going after the wild card so yes we were in wild card contention so get your facts straight.

What year was that moron?

13Lawrie13
08-01-2011, 05:52 PM
So the Jays were in 2nd? Because when I look at the standings around the all star break, this is what it shows:

Boston 54 34
NY Yankees 51 37
Tampa Bay 48 41
Toronto 44 46
Baltimore 40 48

lol, so you might want to learn to read some numbers before you open your mouth and start arguing against something that I can't possibly make up

This, my friend, is a classic troll mistake.

Way to go!

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 05:58 PM
Wow you got this year standings before the all star break. Congrats but we played good baseball in the second half of the season and we were 2nd division by years end in the AL East somyour telling me that Boston went 31-34 in the second by winning only 85 games. Wow thank good you got this year standing congrats but the year we are talking about is the trade offer that Theo gave JP not giving me the crappy this year standings. Maybe you forgot we won 87 games for second place in the division but let me guess you forgot that we got second place in the division by going after the wild card so yes we were in wild card contention so get your facts straight.

What year was that moron?

You sure about that? Because the Jays didn't have a winning record in any month until september and we know how useful that is.

If by 2nd in the division = 4th in the division than your absolutely right. If you don't believe me, just type in 2009 MLB Standings. That might solve your confusion

dunedinjays
08-01-2011, 05:59 PM
This, my friend, is a classic troll mistake.

Way to go!

Numbers don't lie, my friend.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 06:04 PM
This, my friend, is a classic troll mistake.

Way to go!

Exactly this guy gave me this year standings before the all-star break not that year where we were in wild card contention. The trade offer apparently we were not in the wild card contention finishing 2nd place in the division of the AL East and it would be a great idea to trade our ace pitcher to a Al east rival when we were going to tryng to make the playoffs. All these red sox fans are trolling our board because the jays made in the past two years impact trades and are scared that the jays will be threats towards the red sox. These fans don't like what is happening with our team and we made a trade for Colby ramsus and that did not sit well with Boston nation bunch of cry babies. Hey dunden don't worry a box of tissues is heading your way troll so keep on crying because in two years jays are going to be real threat. Boston fans like you are so bored right now arguing with Yankee fans that you guys gotta come on our forum and start with jay fans because you boston red sox are bullies and trolls.

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 06:11 PM
settle down kiddies! Why has the discussion strayed so much from Drabek to whatever it is now. It's pretty clear the Yankees and Redsox have led the AL east 1,2 for years minus the one a few years ago when they were injury riddled so i dont know why thats even being brought up in a Drabek thread.

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 06:23 PM
The Jays finished 2nd in 2006. Yet somehow, this guy is smart enough to see a connection between the 2006 season and the 2009 season which is the year Halladay was on the trade market.

Makes a lot of sense to me now....

This guy who is a troll came into our forum just to stir the pot and he is mad that Boston might not make the playoffs in which there is alot going on with the starting pitching of there. There is alot of question marks with starting rotation that is why he has to take his frustration on jay fans because he is mad that JP did not trade Roy halladay to there bully team.

13Lawrie13
08-01-2011, 06:27 PM
settle down kiddies! Why has the discussion strayed so much from Drabek to whatever it is now. It's pretty clear the Yankees and Redsox have led the AL east 1,2 for years minus the one a few years ago when they were injury riddled so i dont know why thats even being brought up in a Drabek thread.

You call us kiddies, and yet, you can't even remember to capitalize your "I".

Congratulations, you really showed us. :clap:

Now, on to a more important topic. The only reason any of us posted anything that doesn't relate to Drabek is because this poster (dunedinjays), or troll, felt the need to show us the blatantly obvious, while being an ******* doing so. Now, as the discussion intensified, the "poster" (I use that word lightly) decided to skewer facts, in order to attempt to prove his completely unnecessary point.

I'm simply calling out the troll. No need to add one and one when you can't spell two.

Bombtista
08-01-2011, 06:42 PM
You call us kiddies, and yet, you can't even remember to capitalize your "I".

Congratulations, you really showed us. :clap:



lolwut. I wasnt trying to show you anything. I was pointing out how this thread is no longer about drabek at all. I realize this guy is stirring the pot though

I fixed my "I"s for you ;)

Jays Claw
08-01-2011, 07:39 PM
All I said was Halladay benefited the most from the trade. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't even mention the Red Sox in anything.

He obviously did. Moving from a rebuilding team to a perennial contender is always beneficial towards any player. It's not rocket science. No need to jump into our forum and tell us what we already know.

In my opinion though, both the Jays and Phillies benefited from the Doc deal. Philly recevied a front-line ace/future HOF'er while T.O got a package of young, potential studs just waiting to blossom. It was the right move for both teams considering their situations at the time.

fatkev78
08-01-2011, 08:03 PM
Yes.

Obrien_Jays9
08-01-2011, 09:16 PM
drabek is ****ing awful...

ThunderZubb
08-01-2011, 10:32 PM
drabek is ****ing awful...

Are you secretly dundenjay who made another account and to start trouble with us jay fans. Explain to jay fans how drabek ****ing awful please I wanna hear opinion about this?

scotttube
08-01-2011, 11:49 PM
Drabek will be fine.

superfio
08-02-2011, 01:47 AM
Wonder how long it takes for drabek to find footing and establish himself

Wait too long and he may be passed by others coming up in the system?

Bubba54
08-02-2011, 02:24 AM
I believe in Drabek...for now.

I seem to remember an at the time young lad name Roy Halladay was sent down from the big club, ALL THE WAY TO "A" BALL after having a very rough time in the the bigs to start his career. He was sent down because of his delivery and tendency to try to just muscle all his pitches to the plate (sound familiar) He worked his way back up to the majors after a couple months and you all know the rest.

And of course I'm not saying that Drabek is going to be another Halladay. I am just saying that it has happened before. And it happened in our own organization over 10 years ago.

superfio
08-02-2011, 02:57 AM
Who will play Mel queen for drabek?

Halladay
08-02-2011, 03:32 AM
Whats with the trollfest in our forum recently...

BlueJayCarter
08-02-2011, 03:33 AM
Who will play Mel queen for drabek?

John Farrell should be good for that role, if he has the time, which he probably doesn't.

So Drabek will have to figure it out on his own.

nstojic
08-02-2011, 03:36 AM
Whats with the trollfest in our forum recently...

we've made it big :shrug:

justin_6
08-02-2011, 04:02 AM
i don't believe he will be a #2 type starter like many project him to be. I think he will make a nice #5 in a contender.

The pitcher i don't believe in is brett cecil. I just don't think he can get away with a 88mph fastball in the al east. He has to be near perfect with the rest of his pitches for that to be.

lmaoo have u watch the last couple of games or maybee the complete game he had he was throwing for 93 in the 9th inning

Bubba54
08-02-2011, 04:05 AM
Who will play Mel queen for drabek?

Nice move sir, very nice. Cause I have no idea. But I am sure we have someone down their we know almost nothing about who can do something!

Macedonian
08-09-2011, 12:53 AM
Drabek "strikes" again...
6.0 IP ; 9 H ; 4 ER ; 3 BB ; 0 K

Last 10 Games:
6.52 ERA ; 1.809 WHIP ; 4.94 BB/9 ; 5.30 K/9

:(

bomber0104
08-09-2011, 01:17 AM
Drabek "strikes" again...
6.0 IP ; 9 H ; 4 ER ; 3 BB ; 0 K

Last 10 Games:
6.52 ERA ; 1.809 WHIP ; 4.94 BB/9 ; 5.30 K/9

:(

I've said this time and time again... at this point, Drabek is probably just waiting for this nightmare of a year to end

ghost dog
08-09-2011, 01:21 AM
I do but if he's the key piece in a deal for felix or who's-bald-ho?, I pull that trigger

this, saves me the trouble of spelling his name incorrectly

Toxeryll
08-09-2011, 02:31 AM
lmaoo have u watch the last couple of games or maybee the complete game he had he was throwing for 93 in the 9th inning

i believe the heat/gun in texas has something to do with that

Dol-Fan
08-09-2011, 09:41 AM
I posted this in the prospects thread yesterday...

Just a word for anyone who has lost faith in Drabek: Dustin McGowan was horrendous his first two stints with the Jays (at 23 and 24 years old). He walked more guys than he struck out at 24 years old and was actually worse than Drabek before hitting his stride. Mind you, McGowan was primarily being used as a reliever at that point...but the point is, you don't give up on a kid that young just because he struggles at first. Let's hope Drabek can have a similar turnaround, minus the injuries of course.

Drabek obviously has the "stuff" to do it. IIRC, he was asked to go down and NOT use his cutter at all. That could be playing a big part in his overall suckiness. It's impossible for us to tell (unless we trek to LV to catch a game) whether he's really making progress based on what the Jays have asked him to do. Drabek will be fine. He's still really freakin' young.

Krylian
08-09-2011, 10:21 AM
I think Drabek will use this off-season to continue working on his command, but more importantly I think reflection and mental rest will be helpful. It wouldn't surprise me to see him report in February, relieved to have a clean slate, and will find himself.

It happens to a lot of pro athletes that for whatever reason they get into a season long funk and they just can't shake it. Ok...sometimes they lose it for good...but lots of times all they needed is to hit the reset button and get back to working hard and let their talent take over.

I'm not ready to give up on the kid. He has a 92-97 mph fastball. A very sharp biting curve, a very good cutter, and a changeup that he's worked very hard on and is a solid-average ML pitch. Nolan Ryan I believe has walked 200 batters in a year before. Randy Johnson well over 100 (150 if I'm not mistaken). Clearly Drabek doesn't have their pure stuff, but I'm saying control and command can be improved...it's not a stuff issue with him.

And maybe he's been humbled a bit this year. Maybe some of his hothead antics get more subdued.

I'm eager to see him back and ready to go in spring 2012.

Kelly Gruber
08-09-2011, 10:27 AM
I've said this time and time again... at this point, Drabek is probably just waiting for this nightmare of a year to end

Which is an awful mind-set to be in. If he expects to be up in September, he'd better start thinking about this year. Publicly they've stated they want him up again, but you have to think they want to see a bit more of him before that happens. Just called up Henderson Alvarez over him. Could get messy if he expects to be up and the Jays don't make the call. He needs to put together some solid starts now to make it an easy choice.

JaysHabs
08-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Yes I do.

Romero
Morrow
Cecil
McGowan
Drabek

so many good young pitchers Alvarez, Mills, McGuire, etc.
GO Jays

GNick
08-11-2011, 08:38 AM
Drabek may make a great closer. Many failed starters with good arms have become top closers here. Henke, Ward be 2 examples.

mtf
08-11-2011, 10:32 AM
There is some degree or patience required. He was the centerpiece of the Roy Halladay deal and I'm sure no one in the organization has given up on him simply because his first time out of the minors he didn't win a Cy Young. Henderson Alvarez may struggle next year too, we shouldn't throw him away so easily either if/when that happens.

Roy Halladay struggled mightily in his first time in the bigs too, and although Drabek probably won't be Halladay, the point is that great players (more often than not it would seem) sometimes stumble before they make it.

Macedonian
08-14-2011, 08:34 PM
Drabek is pitching tonight...
After two innings, here's the line:
2.0 IP ; 7 H ; 5 R ; 4 ER ; 1 SO
:(

BlueJaysFan
08-14-2011, 09:54 PM
Kyle did pretty bad tonight imo.

Toxeryll
08-14-2011, 10:03 PM
he rebounded pretty good though after the horrible 1st inning. on the positive note, IIRC, this is his 2nd consecutive start where he has thrown 60+% of his pitches for strikes, which is good but not great.