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View Full Version : Bigger failure LeBron or T-mac up to now?



franchise99
07-29-2011, 12:57 PM
This is hard choice especially since one player is in his prime and the other is considerably a complete has been.

LeBron:

Lebron has always been a dominant in the season with a 27.7 ppg average to go along with about 7 rebounds and assists per game. He has always been able to score at will. Statistically, he's even been dominant in the postseason as well. Lebron seems like the kind of person who gives up easily he gave up especially when Cleveland lost to Boston and he was no where to be found in the 2011 NBA finals. Another aspect that bothers me is how Lebron has an enormous ego, I mean he created a primetime special to diss all his fans in Cleveland on live T.V. Really?

T-mac:

Well there isn't much to be said other than he was at his prime and he didn't win a championship(personally if he was with better teammates in Orlando, I think he could have definitely won a championship). T-mac was a great player he scored 13 points in 35 seconds to win a game, I don't see Lebron or anyone else doing that ever.

So Where do I stand?

Up to now definitely Lebron!

If he never aired " The Decision"

probably T-mac

sixer04fan
07-29-2011, 01:01 PM
T-Mac so far... But Lebron is better, so if he never wins, especially with Wade on his team, then it will be him. As much as I dislike Lebron, he probably will win a championship though.

NYKalltheway
07-29-2011, 01:02 PM
1) Too early to judge

2) Tmac's legs/knees failed him, not his fault (at least none that I know of)

3) Lebron has choked on his own.

4) Lebron has led his average team to NBA Finals. Talking about Cavs...

5) Still too early to judge

SteBO
07-29-2011, 01:12 PM
1) Too early to judge

2) Tmac's legs/knees failed him, not his fault (at least none that I know of)

3) Lebron has choked on his own.

4) Lebron has led his average team to NBA Finals. Talking about Cavs...

5) Still too early to judge

Um, this. But if I had to choose, I'd say LeBron since he was the most hyped. Other than that, it really is too early to judge.

TheHoopsProphet
07-29-2011, 01:16 PM
Pretty much every non-Miami fan would be happy to see Lebron never win the title, but the probability of such a scenario is so unlikely that we might as well root for Jake Gylenhall to never get laid again in his life.

TheHoopsProphet
07-29-2011, 01:18 PM
pretty sure Gylenhall just had some sweet HJ from a legsy girl he met at the market between the time of this comment and the last.

TheHoopsProphet
07-29-2011, 01:18 PM
oh god, and now he's porking my mother!

that sunuva *****!!!

Tony_Starks
07-29-2011, 01:32 PM
T Mac will always get love. Had he been with a contender a lot sooner it would've been a problem, but he really did his thing in a legendary way to some of us.

Lebron, well I'll just say if having a triple double in a playoff game is considered a bad game for him I'd say he's FAR from being a failure. He may not be meeting (unrealistic) expectations, but that guy right there is going to get it done eventually.

JordansBulls
07-29-2011, 01:35 PM
This is hard choice especially since one player is in his prime and the other is considerably a complete has been.

LeBron:

Lebron has always been a dominant in the season with a 27.7 ppg average to go along with about 7 rebounds and assists per game. He has always been able to score at will. Statistically, he's even been dominant in the postseason as well. Lebron seems like the kind of person who gives up easily he gave up especially when Cleveland lost to Boston and he was no where to be found in the 2011 NBA finals. Another aspect that bothers me is how Lebron has an enormous ego, I mean he created a primetime special to diss all his fans in Cleveland on live T.V. Really?

T-mac:

Well there isn't much to be said other than he was at his prime and he didn't win a championship(personally if he was with better teammates in Orlando, I think he could have definitely won a championship). T-mac was a great player he scored 13 points in 35 seconds to win a game, I don't see Lebron or anyone else doing that ever.

So Where do I stand?

Up to now definitely Lebron!

If he never aired " The Decision"

probably T-mac

Depends on how you basing it. Are you basing it on how hyped they were and how good they were supposed to be in the league? If so, then Tmac was not supposed to be as good as he became while Lebron was hyped up to be a contender for top 3-5 all time.

If it is based on what they did knowing how good they became, then I'd say Tmac because for one he was never able to get a team higher than the 5th seed and never won a playoff series. And Tmac is one of my favorite players.

Actually created a thread on how you think the Spurs would have done with Tmac in place of Parker and Manu

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=638941

tredigs
07-29-2011, 01:39 PM
HoopsProphet. Hahah

LionsFan..LOL
07-29-2011, 01:44 PM
Its not a basketball thread if we don't have HoopsProphet lol :laugh2:

On topic, its hard to say since neither career is over. If I was forced to say a name it would be T-mac. Now if LBJ fails to win a ring with Wade and Bosh then it would go to him.

8kobe24
07-29-2011, 01:45 PM
If you are saying up to this point, then I would say lebron, only because he was so hyped up coming in to the league. But I know 2-3 years down the road lebron will get his ring.

ManRam
07-29-2011, 01:50 PM
I'd love to be as big of a failure as either of those guys.


T-Mac was stuck on some terrible, terrible teams in Orlando. He went to Houston and never won, or even got close. Some would argue they were better without him (they weren't, it never works like that...those same guys though NO was better when Collison was starting). LeBron was on some pretty awful teams too, but unlike T-Mac (who did give his all) he got more out of his teams (granted, he did have more talent).

Can't judge LeBron yet. He's still young, and has only played one season on a championship winning talent-level team.

netsgiantsyanks
07-29-2011, 01:55 PM
i nominate this thread as a bigger failure

ink
07-29-2011, 02:01 PM
Um, this. But if I had to choose, I'd say LeBron since he was the most hyped. Other than that, it really is too early to judge.

I know you're not a Lebron hater, far from it, but remember that the hype is not his fault. I don't think he's a failure in ANY sense of the word and I can't see how anyone could think so. He may be a disappointment, but we can't call a multiple time MVP with several trips to the finals a failure. Is he an incomplete player? Yes. Does he struggle in some clutch situations? Yes. Is he an ***? Yes. But that doesn't make him a failure. Mainly he's just incredibly unpopular right now. There are dozens of players in NBA history and in the present NBA who would kill for the chance to "fail" (if that's what we want to call it) like Lebron "fails". Only the elite of the elite know what it is to fail at that lofty level. Just ask Kobe, Shaq, Stockton, Malone, Nash, Barkley and the pantheon of truly great players that haters love to brand "failures".

llemon
07-29-2011, 02:01 PM
Two Finals appearances vs. not winning a playoff series.

Don't see where this is even debatable.

juno10
07-29-2011, 02:02 PM
multiple all star, back to back mvp, scoring titles, olympic gold medalist, nba first teams,trips to nba finals,ecf, defensive first teams, hows lebron a failure, hahaha i guess nash,barkley and all the greats who never won a title are all failures and lebron is only 26 mj didnt win till he was 28.

ink
07-29-2011, 02:03 PM
Two Finals appearances vs. not winning a playoff series.

Don't see where this is even debatable.

I agree. The thread is actually insulting to a basketball fan's intelligence.

marj987
07-29-2011, 02:13 PM
I agree. The thread is actually insulting to a basketball fan's intelligence.

....................Well?

SteBO
07-29-2011, 02:13 PM
I guess what the OP is saying is that T-mac and LeBron were both freakishly talented, and that they haven't accomplished much makes them both failures in a way. It's too early to tell in LeBron's case, but he'd be considered the bigger failure to most people since hasn't won a ring, and the fact that he's hated nationwide.

franchise99
07-29-2011, 02:16 PM
I agree. The thread is actually insulting to a basketball fan's intelligence.

I really don't understand how it is insulting???

beasted86
07-29-2011, 02:18 PM
2 MVPs and 2 Finals trips state LeBron is not as bad as some trolls want to make him seem, especially since he has a lot of time to win championships while McGrady will only be a bench player if he ever does get a ring. For all we know LeBron could end his career with 2 MVPs, a number of all NBA & defensive teams, and still get 2-3 rings, and nobody would dare call those accolades failures.

Grant Hill has never seen a Finals, and was a highly hyped player out of college, and even in discussion of one day taking the reigns from Jordan (until Kobe broke out) but nobody discusses him as a failure because it's not the Kosher thing to do.

You guys need to get over your LeBron love-to-talk-about/love-to-hate relationship already.

franchise99
07-29-2011, 02:18 PM
Two Finals appearances vs. not winning a playoff series.

Don't see where this is even debatable.

Im not just talking about Lebron from a basketball perspective rather how he handled everything he was given such as a good team, lots of fans, and lots more. HE DISSED MILLIONS ON LIVE TV AFTER TELLING THEM THAT HE'D PLAY FOR THEM. The main reason he has failed thus far is because of his ego.

franchise99
07-29-2011, 02:19 PM
I guess what the OP is saying is that T-mac and LeBron were both freakishly talented, and that they haven't accomplished much makes them both failures in a way. It's too early to tell in LeBron's case, but he'd be considered the bigger failure to most people since hasn't won a ring, and the fact that he's hated nationwide.

Your right on!

beasted86
07-29-2011, 02:22 PM
multiple all star, back to back mvp, scoring titles, olympic gold medalist, nba first teams,trips to nba finals,ecf, defensive first teams, hows lebron a failure, hahaha i guess nash,barkley and all the greats who never won a title are all failures and lebron is only 26 mj didnt win till he was 28.

They just dislike LeBron, so he's automatically a failure even in light to those comparisons you made.

beasted86
07-29-2011, 02:25 PM
Im not just talking about Lebron from a basketball perspective rather how he handled everything he was given such as a good team, lots of fans, and lots more. HE DISSED MILLIONS ON LIVE TV AFTER TELLING THEM THAT HE'D PLAY FOR THEM. The main reason he has failed thus far is because of his ego.

So failing now has to do with off the court stuff too?

Man, seems like you are reaching... reaching far. On the court LeBron has had solid success. He hasn't reached the ultimate goal of all NBA players, to win a championship, but I don't see how his career is comparable to McGrady.

I'll be honest, before he came to Miami, I was annoyed with how much hype ESPN and other gave LeBron in comparison to other great players both still in the game and all-time... but no matter how much you dislike him or what the media has made him, doesn't change how successful he has been or how good of a player he will go down as eventually.

bn2n2me
07-29-2011, 02:26 PM
Lebron...a failure?!?! WTF are you talkin about(smokin)?? Man, u sound dumb as a bag rocks for even posting that ish..lmao.

SteBO
07-29-2011, 02:27 PM
So failing now has to do with off the court stuff too?

Man, seems like you are reaching... reaching far. On the court LeBron has had solid success. He hasn't reached the ultimate goal of all NBA players, to win a championship, but I don't see how his career is comparable to McGrady.

I'll be honest, before he came to Miami, I was annoyed with how much hype ESPN and other gave LeBron in comparison to other great players both still in the game and all-time... but no matter how much you dislike him or what the media has made him, doesn't change how successful he has been or how good of a player he will go down as eventually.

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately most of the world aren't thinking like this, hence why I'm saying that LeBron would be considered the bigger failure in peoples' eyes, despite the fact that T-mac hasn't even won a playoff series. It's silly and petty, but it's reality.

EaglePride615
07-29-2011, 02:35 PM
explain exactly how a 2 time MVP has failed? because he didnt win the ring? well **** if hes a failure so are most of the nba

ink
07-29-2011, 02:36 PM
My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately most of the world aren't thinking like this, hence why I'm saying that LeBron would be considered the bigger failure in peoples' eyes, despite the fact that T-mac hasn't even won a playoff series. It's silly and petty, but it's reality.

This.

Love him or hate him, assess the player's accomplishments, don't measure him by a special scale. The very fact that he's so far above most other players (including TMac) shows just how ludicrous this comparison is. The mistake is to measure him against EXPECTATIONS. You measure him like you measure every other player and he always comes out at or near the top from the moment he entered the league. Remember, I'm not a Lebron fan in any way, just acknowledging the obvious and maintaining perspective on the guy.

Klivlend
07-29-2011, 02:36 PM
gtfo with this thread

llemon
07-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Im not just talking about Lebron from a basketball perspective rather how he handled everything he was given such as a good team, lots of fans, and lots more. HE DISSED MILLIONS ON LIVE TV AFTER TELLING THEM THAT HE'D PLAY FOR THEM. The main reason he has failed thus far is because of his ego.

He's a failure because he dissed millions of people on live TV?

I really don't like Lebron, and have no respect for him, but if I were to say he was a failure, then I'd have to say that most politicians are failures.

But as we are speaking about basketball, I just don't see how anyone could say Lebron is a bigger failure than McGrady.

But everyone is gonna think what they are going to think.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-29-2011, 04:15 PM
Neither are failures... And Mcgrady woulda been out the first round easily if he stayed on the east coast with a half decent team. Injuries and poor teams cost him.

Tha Truth
07-29-2011, 04:42 PM
All I want is someone to CLEARLY explain how LeBron is failure.

I really don't understand.

RCarlson85
07-29-2011, 04:47 PM
This thread is the real failure. How can anyone really compare T-Mac and Lebron? That is a terrible comparison. T-Mac has gone nowhere in the playoffs while Lebron has been to the NBA Finals twice and he has been MVP twice. T-Mac has had an injury riddled career while Lebron has been pretty injury free. The two don't compare. T-Mac's career is also basically over while Lebron still has a lot of good years left.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Prime Mac is every bit as good as Bron @ their peak of their careers. I don't see Lebron improving statistically with him having to sacrifice his game. So while Lebron is not in his full prime we have prob seen the best of him from an individual standpoint. And Tmac @ his peak was just as good but it was so small a sample people have forgotten.

llemon
07-29-2011, 05:23 PM
Prime Mac is every bit as good as Bron @ their peak of their careers. I don't see Lebron improving statistically with him having to sacrifice his game. So while Lebron is not in his full prime we have prob seen the best of him from an individual standpoint. And Tmac @ his peak was just as good but it was so small a sample people have forgotten.

Have to disagree. Lebron's the better player overall, AND at the top of their respective games.

RevisIsland
07-29-2011, 05:46 PM
Neither was or is a failure. Tmac came into the league and vastly exceeded expectations, LeBron came into the league with unfair hype yet other than in the finals has done pretty much everything possible to live up to it. I may not love either player, but neither is a failure by any means.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-29-2011, 05:47 PM
Tmac was a playmaker and was a 5 tool player in a tougher era. The league was a bit more physical and guys weren't living at the line. And please let's not say defense bcuz lebrons defense is good but it's a bit overrated from an individual standpoint. Hes much better in a team concept. One on one he struggles with star players like every1 else. Now I agree Lebron is better overall bcuz of his consistency but like I said in his prime Tmac was just as good.


Have to disagree. Lebron's the better player overall, AND at the top of their respective games.

llemon
07-29-2011, 06:10 PM
Tmac was a playmaker and was a 5 tool player in a tougher era. The league was a bit more physical and guys weren't living at the line. And please let's not say defense bcuz lebrons defense is good but it's a bit overrated from an individual standpoint. Hes much better in a team concept. One on one he struggles with star players like every1 else. Now I agree Lebron is better overall bcuz of his consistency but like I said in his prime Tmac was just as good.

You are entitled to that opinion.

Again, I disagree.

CityofChaos
07-29-2011, 06:18 PM
PSD posters = FAILURE

Geargo Wallace
07-29-2011, 06:25 PM
First thing that I was wondering - How is LeBron a failure? Heck, how is TMac a failure? Injuries ****ed his career up nicely.

THE GIPPER
07-29-2011, 06:39 PM
how has lebron been a failure?

Hitman21
07-29-2011, 06:39 PM
Please close this thread....one of the dumbest threads ive ever seen..ya douche

Sixerlover
07-29-2011, 07:19 PM
You guys treat Lebron like he's Sam Bowie or Darko. It's embarrassing.

Chronz
07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Tmac wasnt a failure, his teams always overachieved

Same with Bron for the most part but people equate losing to failure

PJAF
07-29-2011, 07:39 PM
Bigger failure? Neither. BB is a team sport.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
You are entitled to that opinion.

Again, I disagree.

Care to explain why? Put Tmacs 3 best seasons vs Brons and it's a legit argument in the context of the 2 of them being statistically even in their prime outputs.

llemon
07-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Care to explain why? Put Tmacs 3 best seasons vs Brons and it's a legit argument in the context of the 2 of them being statistically even in their prime outputs.

Statisically, their 3 best seasons a relatively close, with Lebron having the superior seasons.

But realistically, Lebron has OBVIOUSLY been the greater impact player than Tracy ever was.

If you don't want to realize that, that is your privilege.

Doesn't seem I'm going to change your opinion, and honestly, I'm not trying to. Just stating my opinion.

But as I'm a person that has witnessed both of their careers, there is certainly no way you are going to change my opinion.

topdog
07-29-2011, 08:11 PM
I'm usually against the word "hater" and I certainly am not a 'Bron fan, but this is definitely a hater thread.

Come on people we have better things to discuss!

Bruno
07-29-2011, 08:56 PM
Damn, you know you're a baller when you've won two MVPs before your 26th birthday and you're still considered a failure.

ink
07-29-2011, 10:32 PM
Damn, you know you're a baller when you've won two MVPs before your 26th birthday and you're still considered a failure.

You nailed it. This should be the final word. :D

By popular demand, this thread is now closed due to ridiculousness.